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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.06.19 15:14:00 -
[121]
you can shield tank domis. passive sheild tank them at that. i fail to see the issue. nobody is arguing that the guns should be more dps. just that they need their alpha ability back so long term they are still the same gun. less actually as there is no way to decrease reload time.
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Hortoken Wolfbrother
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.19 17:12:00 -
[122]
 Originally by: Bambi
I havent read every single post in this thread, but one thing people ssem to be missing out is that Min ships, especially the BS are a little more flexible in thier tanking ability than other BS. You have the option to go for an active shield or armor tank, I'd like to see someone armor tank a Raven, although someone probably flies one.
maybe this is why Arties are missing the Dev Lovin atm
The only tank a tempest is fitting with 1400s on is a hardcore tank of reactor controls.
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Rane Javoke
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.06.19 19:43:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Hortoken Wolfbrother
The only tank a tempest is fitting with 1400s on is a hardcore tank of reactor controls.
Lies! I for one fly a 1400mm-gunned, large shield booster mission Pest.
(mostly because a providence overtook me Maelstorm on the gate once  )
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Jalif
Deviance Inc
Nocturnal Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.20 21:15:00 -
[124]
/signed... 1400mm needs to be boosted... I am not training even for minmatar BS & Large Projectiles.... until 1400mm gets boosted, I keep skilling/thinking about caldari/amarr BS's...
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
We like to share the lub.
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Darth Vaders
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.20 21:51:00 -
[125]
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Marn Prestoc
The Black Mamba's
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Posted - 2008.06.23 13:02:00 -
[126]
Might as well copy this post from the Ships and Mods forum that looks at 1400mm's.
Originally by: "Marn Prestoc"
Just a few diagrams to show the dps/range and volley damage and what a couple of the more basic changes suggested would do.
I used Maelstrom against pretty standard Mega, Apoc and Rokh fittings.
Dps against Range - Here we can see how the range sucks even using 3 range modules. We also can see how having more falloff makes very little difference when optimals are 150km+ and falloff is only 35km.
Dps with reloads against Range - If we're going to bring arguements about cap use into this then this should be the comparison used as weapons will have to reload before cap using weapons/ships have cap issues. I think this one shows the difference between the minmatar snipers and the Megathron very well, practically same dps with less range, tracking and harder fitting.
Both of the above images show a simple change of adding a falloff bonus to Tremor of +50% that helps the range a lot, but in a minmatar way.
They also show a swap of Maelstroms ROF bonus to DMG, this isn't a swap that keeps DPS the same (would need a bigger DMG bonus) but you can see in volley damage against time the effect it has. I think this demonstrates to me that the DPS needs to be kept the same or increased slightly while increasing the volley damage. Slowing the ROF will reduce the problem of the clip size but it should still be increased by a few shots imo.
My proposal for CCP to test would be to...
- Tremor:
Increase falloff by 40% (x1.4).
- 1400mm T2 arty:
Increase damage by +25% (x1.25).
Increase ROF by +23% (x1.23) slowing it down. Just to be clear SLOWING rof DECREASES dps.
Increase clip size by 2 shots taking 10 shots to 12.
This would produce:
Dps against Range - You can see a slight DPS increase along with a real benifit in the new increased falloff range.
Dps with Reloads against Range - With a slower ROF and 2 more shots the dps decrease due to reloading is reduced.
Volley damage against Time - We can see the increase in volley damage and with the ROF not being slowed to much the time that volley damage is ahead is increased.
Just a quick suggestion really with clear numbers and effect they have, if anything more i'd like the clip size increased more.
-
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Siddy
Gay Nationalist Association of Amamake
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Posted - 2008.06.23 17:57:00 -
[127]
not signed
While the 1400mms are brokn, your proposion is not radical enought to un-homogenise this wepon from the sea of DPS-is-the-king sewagepool
CCP nees to go nuts on these.
Out-of-the-box
3000 hit/gun of raw damage from tempest!
that you x6 and then divide by resistances: 9000k alpha is what i need!
You can nerf the traking, rof and your grandmther, i dont care, ill overcome that.
Right now there is nothing in 1400mms that make it worth my while by overcoming it allredy craptastik tracking, RoF and DPS. NOTHNG. 1.25x will not do. Even with that, the current HP buffer tanks can take it.
What MINMATARS need, its alpha! 
-------------
T'ey see me t'Rollin,
t'ey hatin, pa'trolli.
T'ey trying catch me writing dirty... |
Transmaniacon
Strike-Force-Alpha
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Posted - 2008.06.23 18:48:00 -
[128]
3000 a hit seems a bit much, but I do agree that Minmatar should be the alpha kings. And yea, I wouldnt mind waiting like 20 seconds between shots to be able to unleash that sort of volley 
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bawb2
Absolutely No Retreat
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.23 18:59:00 -
[129]
Arty needs some love.
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Laughlyn Vaughns
Lagos-Vaughn Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.24 22:55:00 -
[130]
I did have a small thought earlier lookin at the minamatr battleships.
If its a good alpha ship we're lookin at then maybe change the Maelstroms RoF bonus to a 5% damage one?
That way none the other ships become overpowered (altho they coudl do with a bit of love) but as a first startin point having 8 x 1400mm IIs with 5% per level damage would give a nice alpha compared to what it is at present.
its not going to solve all the problems but its an option that could be installed relativly easily am sure since its just one ship becomin slightly more powerful, afterall they are supposed to be best alpha/lousy dps.
Maybe add a few more damage points to each ammo types damage types. it only needs 1 on each damage type and that would increase damage consiberably the more skilled u are.
a small example Fusion does 32 EXP
32 + 25% damage = 40 x11 damage mod (approx 1400s on my phoon) = 440
now change that to 33EXP
33 + 25% damage = 41.25 x11 = 453.75.
so yeah just its not a vast difference but you get what i mean, CCP can sort the figures out.
But my theory is that the more skilled u are then the more the percentage is factored in and ur rewarded with a bigger damage output, like (i believe) it shud be.
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Bad Harlequin
Chiroptera Factor
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Posted - 2008.06.25 02:22:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Siddy
CCP needs to go nuts on these.
...
What MINMATARS need, its alpha!
your newsletter, i will subscribe
opinion, thread-watchers: is this specific enough (current alpha values are useless vs. current ship stats, boost arty alpha) to warrant its own thread, or should we continue to show support here (help arty in some as yet unspecified way)?
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-- we all live in a yellow subroutine -- |
Transmaniacon
Strike-Force-Alpha
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Posted - 2008.06.25 12:16:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Bad Harlequin
Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 25/06/2008 02:42:01
Originally by: Siddy
CCP needs to go nuts on these.
...
What MINMATARS need, its alpha!
your newsletter, i will subscribe
opinion, thread-watchers: is this specific enough (current alpha values are useless vs. current ship stats, boost arty alpha) to warrant its own thread, or should we continue to show support here (help arty in some as yet unspecified way)?
edit: i fully support what i glimpse of Siddy's idea of ship-shaking, duct-tape unwrapping, rust-flaking shuddering volleys of horrifically-sized shells that rattle your teeth when you fire 'em even thru the pod fluid... but may or may not miss completely, hit the guy next to you, only get fired once every other week or some combination thereof.
i *think* snipers can have a role with massive alpha strikes in finishing off wounded targets or suddenly adding an extra whomp to a target who previously thought he was tanking just fine. maybe. discuss?
Exactly, this sort of damage is what artillery needs. It will make it feared, and actually fulfill its role. Artilery shoots huge projectiles really far, and while may not be accurate, makes up for it in shear power.
And about the maelstrom bonus change, I think thats a great idea. 3/4 times, people are fitting artillery on the maelstrom, so give it some support towards alpha, and the damage bonus would help that. Losing the RoF bonus would lower DPS, and the damage bonus would boost Alpha, keeping the ship balanced.
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Siddy
Gay Nationalist Association of Amamake
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Posted - 2008.06.25 21:13:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Siddy on 25/06/2008 21:16:06
Originally by: Bad Harlequin
Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 25/06/2008 02:42:01
Originally by: Siddy
CCP needs to go nuts on these.
...
What MINMATARS need, its alpha!
your newsletter, i will subscribe
T3h REAL 1400 thread
Or "How is see minmatar race shuld be"
-------------
T'ey see me t'Rollin,
t'ey hatin, pa'trolli.
T'ey trying catch me writing dirty... |
Sir Substance
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Posted - 2008.06.25 21:26:00 -
[134]
i am flying an abaddon instead of a maelstrom for just this reason. theres a lot of minni stuff that needs fixing. the tempest is borked, 1400's are so outdated i havent trained large projectiles yet, and the only useful BS minni has is the typhoon.
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SickSeven
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Posted - 2008.06.26 02:54:00 -
[135]
Minmatar Large projectiles in general need a serious review. Especially the 1400mm Arty.
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Ripp Tyde
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.26 03:11:00 -
[136]
signed
Ripp Tyde
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2008.06.26 03:53:00 -
[137]
My friend swapped from a Maelstrom to a Raven. With minimal cruise missile skills, he's much more capable of actually killing things.
Even in PvE, we need some love for artillery. Lower ROF, higher damage multiplier, and fix the "tracking". How do 1400mm track so slow? A team of Brutors with wrenches out there undoing the mounting, moving it to the side, and refastening the gun to the ship after a coffee break?
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Transmaniacon
Strike-Force-Alpha
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Posted - 2008.06.26 13:46:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
My friend swapped from a Maelstrom to a Raven. With minimal cruise missile skills, he's much more capable of actually killing things.
Even in PvE, we need some love for artillery. Lower ROF, higher damage multiplier, and fix the "tracking". How do 1400mm track so slow? A team of Brutors with wrenches out there undoing the mounting, moving it to the side, and refastening the gun to the ship after a coffee break?
LOL...I could totally see some guys sitting on the ship, getting the order to shoot the enemy, and out there with the cranks adjusting the gun pivot, "Hows that look?" "Hmm, more to the left...". 
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Laughlyn Vaughns
Lagos-Vaughn Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.26 16:32:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Transmaniacon
Originally by: Mara Rinn
My friend swapped from a Maelstrom to a Raven. With minimal cruise missile skills, he's much more capable of actually killing things.
Even in PvE, we need some love for artillery. Lower ROF, higher damage multiplier, and fix the "tracking". How do 1400mm track so slow? A team of Brutors with wrenches out there undoing the mounting, moving it to the side, and refastening the gun to the ship after a coffee break?
LOL...I could totally see some guys sitting on the ship, getting the order to shoot the enemy, and out there with the cranks adjusting the gun pivot, "Hows that look?" "Hmm, more to the left...".
lol yeah, u could probs imagine it on sum old "Carry On Minmatar" film, moving the cannon left, right, upand down lol.
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JaxxFunk
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Posted - 2008.06.26 18:30:00 -
[140]
Supported...
The 1400mm artillary was never brought in line with the others ever since its alpha was negated due to the hp buff.
You aint seen me...right |
ErrhuhBlaman
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Posted - 2008.06.26 18:34:00 -
[141]
/signed
but i believe all large projectiles need to be boosted.
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Garr Anders
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.06.26 22:33:00 -
[142]
Its not only the 1400.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=801402
/signed
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Garr Anders
"The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet.
- referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
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Bad Harlequin
Chiroptera Factor
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Posted - 2008.06.26 23:00:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Siddy
"How is see minmatar race shuld be"
WAAAAAAAGH, baby.
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-- we all live in a yellow subroutine -- |
Cutter Isaacson
Hollow World Mining Corporation
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.06.27 11:52:00 -
[144]
Having just been bought a Typhoon, and gotten myself some brand new 1400mm Galliums to go on it, Im worried that I have taken the wrong path. Anything that can be done to boost Minmatar weapons/ships gets a thumbs up from me.
Originally by: Verone
Sweet baby jesus and his holy mother of pwn. 
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SickSeven
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Posted - 2008.06.27 22:23:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Cutter Isaacson
Having just been bought a Typhoon, and gotten myself some brand new 1400mm Galliums to go on it, Im worried that I have taken the wrong path. Anything that can be done to boost Minmatar weapons/ships gets a thumbs up from me.
AC's and torps. or, 1200mm scouts and cruise for a little more survivability through range.
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TheCraftyHippo
Vanguard Frontiers
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.06.27 23:02:00 -
[146]
Boost Minmitar!
Please don't shoot me. I'll explode. |
Rexy
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.03 14:44:00 -
[147]
what happened to the project ammo buff
<unusual big structure 4tw> |
Atlanticpyro
The Space BorderLine
Diabolic Paradox
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Posted - 2008.07.04 05:34:00 -
[148]
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Roger Douglas
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.07.07 16:16:00 -
[149]
Agree. 1400mm's have needed a bit of rebalancing for a long time.
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Karga Uga
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.17 13:42:00 -
[150]
The biggest problem with 1400mm arties in a fleet fight is it's ammo capactiy.
Once the lag monster shows up you don't get to reload anymore, therefore your 12 rounds of Tremor L per gun are all you get to shoot at the enemy. A buff up to 24 rounds with a slight increase in cycle time to keep DPS the same would be very beneficial.
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