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Meridius
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Posted - 2004.05.14 08:01:00 -
[31]
Please listen to Xavier
Although i do not completely agree with his crystal modifications the tests he carried out are very real.
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Eight
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Posted - 2004.05.14 13:36:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Xavier Perez
The tracking of large lasers simply can not compete with the tracking on a 1400 howie.
Was this a 'slip of the tongue'? Without getting into a discussion about their respective overall effectiveness in combat, the Mega Beam Laser I has a tracking speed of .0075, where as the 1400mm arty is .00214. Both small numbers, but one is 3.5 times the other. The Mega Beam Laser tracks far better than a 1400mm Howitzer Artillery.
Other than that, thanks for the feedback.
~Eight |
Eight
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Posted - 2004.05.14 13:38:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Darax Thulain
Quote from Eight : Microwarpdrives now give an increase to signature radius equal to their boost to speed. So a frigate at top speed with a MWD should be equally hittable as the same frigate in the same situation at top speed without a MWD.
Originally by: Eight
Originally by: hatchette
I don't think signature radius matters for tracking.. it matters only for locking time. But i could be wrong...
You are infact wrong ;-) Please see this dev blog for more details.
*smiles* Ok, so clarify this for me if you will. Lets say I got a normal Breacher doing 400m/s passing across someones screen. And then I got another Breacher with 2x 1mn mwd doing 10000m/s across the same screen, this one having its signarure radius increased proportional to the speed increase. They would be equally easy to track and hit? So this would mean that that little frigate has the same signature radius as a titan or similiar in effect. So lets say that the Breacher with its two mwd's drops its speed to a mere 2000m/s, then that one would be easier to hit because it isnt at top speed of its potential?
"as the same frigate in the same situation at top speed without a MWD"..?
If you take two identical ships, one at max velocity (let's say 400m/s) without a MWD, and one running a MWD at 'partial power' to maintain the 400m/s of his friend. The one with the MWD will be significantly easier to 'track'.
Is that what you're asking?
~Eight |
Darax Thulain
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Posted - 2004.05.14 14:48:00 -
[34]
If you take two identical ships, one at max velocity (let's say 400m/s) without a MWD, and one running a MWD at 'partial power' to maintain the 400m/s of his friend. The one with the MWD will be significantly easier to 'track'.
Is that what you're asking?
~Eight
Yes it was. I found this strange as the physical apprearance and size of the ship doesnt increase when you stuff on a mwd. I would have agreed that the superheated engine exhausts would make it easier to LOCK but not to track, that seems simply not logical to me. But then again there might be something somewhere that I aint read.
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2004.05.14 19:59:00 -
[35]
EIGHT:
Even though "on paper" the Mega Beam shows a faster tracking speed than 1400 mm Howies, in game play Mega Beams for whatever reason miss and get scratch shots ALOT more often than 1400mm Howies do.
You might want to double check to see if maybe something in the coding is wrong for laser tracking.
The multi damage crystal idea:
I would think that would be a GREAT idea IF hybrids ALSO had multi damage ammo as well.
In fact Hybrid Anti-Matter ammo USED to give EM damage along with Thermal and Kinetic.
Even though Projectile weapons while can do good damage over time and switch out ammo, a person only needs to run 3 diff types of hardeners (shield or armor) to get a +50% resistance to all weapon types. Caldari ships can easily shield harden while Gal and Amarr can armor tank easy, while Min can actually do either fairly well.
Tracking without using any tracking mods from all I have tested atm is a VERY ugly situation. The one glitch I have noticed is straight attack speeds.
If the speeds of both ships are greater than 300 m/s and one is traveling in a straight line away from the other ship, the other ship is chasing it. It seems that the ships will miss each other ALOT even though the transverse speed technically is zero (they both 180 degrees to each other traveling at basically the same speeds). If the ship being chased greatly increases it's speed without changing direction then basically forget about hitting it.
Both ships were still within optimal range of their weapons. Tried this with BS vs BS, Cruiser vs Cruiser, Frig vs Frig, Cruiser vs BS.
I would like some others to confirm this please as this should not be happening from what the new formulas are suppose to calculate.
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2004.05.14 20:09:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 14/05/2004 20:16:58
Hmm since the same sensors lock and also track a target, whould it not be logical that if the sensors can see a target better they could not only lock faster but track it better aswell????
If you can see a object with your eyes better is it not easier to focus on it and then follow it better as it moves??
Take for instance a House Fly and a Fire Fly. They both the same size but one gives off bright flashes, which would be easier to focus on and follow around a room with your eyes??
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Arthur Guinness
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Posted - 2004.05.15 10:29:00 -
[37]
Mwd increasing sig radius and making a target being easier to hit is in game for balance reasons.
No need for any reallife comparisons, it's in the game for BALANCE.
It tries to prevent frigs from being invulnerable to everything by just fitting an mwd. |
Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2004.05.16 05:53:00 -
[38]
Removed, off topic
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Xavier Perez
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Posted - 2004.05.16 18:23:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Xavier Perez on 16/05/2004 18:25:01
"
Was this a 'slip of the tongue'? Without getting into a discussion about their respective overall effectiveness in combat, the Mega Beam Laser I has a tracking speed of .0075, where as the 1400mm arty is .00214. Both small numbers, but one is 3.5 times the other. The Mega Beam Laser tracks far better than a 1400mm Howitzer Artillery.
Other than that, thanks for the feedback.
"
No I'm absolutely accurate. Try out an apoc fully kitted with megapulse lasers and no tracking mods and compare it to the hit rate on a megathron with neutron blasters. You will see a marked and extreme shift on the benefit of the megathron both in damage and quality of successful hits. Info screens can lie. 12 minutes of parse logs dont. I'd suspicion that something is stanky at the coding level for lasers since they used to hit a LOT more before the big laser nerf.
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Eight
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Posted - 2004.05.16 23:10:00 -
[40]
Uhm... The Megathron with Blasters is the best tracking battleship. It's going to track better than the Beam Lasers. The discussion was 1400mm Projectile Artillery vs Beam Lasers. Beam Lasers are far better in THAT case.
~Eight |
Eight
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Posted - 2004.05.17 00:01:00 -
[41]
Interceptor Skill Bonus has gone from 10% reduction in Signature Radius per skill level to 5%.
The affects of Signature Radius on tracking are much greater with the new system, and a full 50% reduction was too great. Tests with 20% (Skill Level 2 in old system, Skill Level 4 in new) reduction showed much more reasonable results.
~Eight |
Thomdril Merrilin
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Posted - 2004.05.18 16:08:00 -
[42]
Should it not be 500% increase in signature radius when using a MWD?
or is it the whole idea to make MWD a non combat module? 
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Sirilonwe
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Posted - 2004.05.21 12:11:00 -
[43]
So there are my tests on Chaos 1518.
150 mm scout, iridium, orbit 1km, 0/10 hits, speed 220ms
150 mm scout, iridium, orbit 2.5km, 2/10 hits, speed 296ms, average hit 7
150 mm scout, iridium, orbit 5km, 5/10 hits, speed 306ms, average hit 15
150 mm scout, iridium, orbit 7.5km, 6/9 hits, speed 308ms, average hit 9
light neutron blaster I, uranium, orbit 1km, 6/8 hits, speed 260ms, average hit 20
light neutron blaster I, uranium, orbit 2.5km, 7/10 hits, speed 260ms, average hit 25
light neutron blaster I, uranium, orbit 5km, 7/10 hits, speed 303ms, average hit 31
light neutron blaster I, uranium, orbit 7.5km, 2/10 hits, speed 308ms, average hit 15
The average hit is calculated on shoots that hit the target. The target where guristas imputor, arrogator and invader. I was on board a merlin. My skills:
small hybrid turret lvl 4
targeting lvl 5
Hope this helps :)
_______________________
DSU Recrute!
Corporation PVP FR, nous formons les nouveaux joueurs. Travail salariÚ. Contactez moi ingame.
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Darken Two
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Posted - 2004.05.21 12:49:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Darken Two on 21/05/2004 16:09:57
I just tried using a blasterthron on chaos against a giant secure can.
Using named ion blasters and speed around 160m/s I scored good hits all the way down to 4km after that it just missed every single shot.
Orbitting the can at 1km resulted in all misses as well. Moving in a linear path away from the can I started scoring hits from 4km all the way up to 20-23km or so.
I hope this is not how its meant to be as a totally stationary target should be hittable by any gun even at point blank. Will do some more testing on it to see how it pans out.
Ps. there are some issues with autoreloading. The raven I used would only reload one launcher and then would give me a message saying there was no ammo. I believe its the ammo stacking while reloading thing. If I staggered fire on the launchers it seemed to work fine.
Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
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ShadowHawk
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Posted - 2004.05.21 17:28:00 -
[45]
Would be nice if the devs would change the reload stacking, by taking out what has to be loaded into the gun instead of keeping what has to be reloaded and make a new stack with the remaining ammo... first of all your cargo would be less cluttered and second of all, you would still be able to reload more than one gun even if there was lag... worst thing that can happen is that by the time it tries to take ammo from the main stack that there is none or not enough left, which in either case can be handled by normal error handling.
Your 280mm 'Scout' Artillery I perfectly strikes Sansha's Scavenger, wrecking for 264.3 damage.
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Darken Two
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Posted - 2004.05.21 19:58:00 -
[46]
Had a little duel with a raven using a blaster equipped megathron. I'm not sure if this is an intended feature but I couldnt get close to him because the torps kept rocking my ship constantly changing its direction and speed.
Also used an apoc to test npcs. six megabeams used at 15km from a 85k sanasha rat produced no damage for a full ten minutes before I decided it wouldnt work. As much as I like the tracking changes I feel thats taking it a bit too far.
Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
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YuuKnow
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Posted - 2004.05.22 12:02:00 -
[47]
So I'm getting the impression from these post that the percent hits fall off rather quickly once inside a certain range? Even when targets are stationary or medium guns used?
I would get on Chaos myself and test but I can't get on for the life of me.
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Jeebs
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Posted - 2004.05.23 12:01:00 -
[48]
has anyone tested the effects of different ranged ammo's in proportion to total damage over a period of time.
completely theorhetical numbers
i.e. 1400mm howie, with EMP or phased plasma vs 1400mm howie with proton or depleted uranium.
it would seem to me that while the heavier ammo (emp, phased) doesn't hit as often, the f
alloff (and more so with related falloff skills) ranges allow for damage to still be dealt at a reduced percentage, vs. a more steady hit base with lighter ammo (proton)
say emp or phased averages 200 damage per hit over 10 shots (7 misses, 3 hits @ 667) but proton only does average 96 damage per hit (2 misses, 8 hits @ 120) at similiar ranges.
this leaves me struggling to find the advantages of using these lighter ammos.
(\_/)
(x.x)
(> <) This was Bunny. Kill Bunny and stop him from achieving world domination. |
Darnell
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Posted - 2004.05.27 07:28:00 -
[49]
hi there,
dont know if this has been adressed to b4, anyway i go:
when checking things @ chaos i realized that the order of named siege launchers has been changed.
It seems the formerly 2nd best named siege launcher, the ZW-4100 has now turned the worst named one. The firing rate is worse than the Malkuth launcher now, same goes for capacity.
I hope this isnt a intended "feature" as i just bought 2 ZW-4100 on TQ for 24 mil isk, lmao
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.05.30 16:46:00 -
[50]
Re: reloading
If you turn off auto-reload, and you attempt to do manual reloading, and lets say you have 4 x 1400mm turrets with EMP ammo, the EMP ammo shows up in the little pop up menu on the first turret. But not on the second turret, while the first one is loading.
So the ammo type is taken OUT of the available ammo menu while a turret is reloading (or a missile launcher)....is this intentional or some kind of a bug??
Sorry if somebody has already reported this, I didn't have time to read the whole thread.
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Neofight
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Posted - 2004.05.30 17:04:00 -
[51]
From what ive read/seen the gun takes the whole stack when reloading.
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Bella Verde
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Posted - 2004.05.30 18:59:00 -
[52]
Lasers with more versatile damage crystals would be VERY interesting.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.05.31 22:09:00 -
[53]
is it ment for battleships to use medium and small guns when hunting npcs?
if so then the spawns should not be mixed. battleship spawns should only spawn battleships, cruiser spawn only cruisers etc... becouse there is no way a battleship can hunt in 0.0 with cruisers and frigate spawning with the battleships since the battleship can only be good against one of them... and there is no way a cruiser can hunt cruisers and battleships in the same spawn since the medium guns and small guns dont do enough damage to the battleship...
or was it ment for that all of 0.0 should be teamwork area with 1 bs, 1 cruiser and 1 frigate hunting togather?
"We brake for nobody"
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Boborak
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Posted - 2004.06.02 16:31:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
becouse there is no way a battleship can hunt in 0.0 with cruisers and frigate spawning with the battleships since the battleship can only be good against one of them...
Not true. You could equip short range large weapons and get close to any target you wanted using MWD's and/or webbing, or you could equip a mixture of long range weapons with short range weapons, or you could use a variety of missiles or you could do any number of other things. Just because it's a frigate doesn't mean you need 'small' weapons, it just means you need weapons with faster tracking and shorter optimal ranges or you need things like smartbombs.
Obviously if you're trying to do max damage by equipping just 425 rails and siege launchers, you'll have problems with frigs. Perhaps it's time to rethink your weapon layout ;-)
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Andrew Jade
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Posted - 2004.06.03 15:46:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Andrew Jade on 04/06/2004 08:01:08
Did some testing just now on the latest version of the chaos server.
BS v frigate ; Rifter v Mega with large guns and med guns (blasters). (orbting at 2k)
When orbiting the med blasters didnt touch the frigate. The occasional tiny hit. Same applies with the large guns. We then tried out drones.
Medium drones worked very well and the rifter could survive against 9 picking them off pretty fast. Though I could hold 5 heavies and 25 hornets and so replacing them wasnt a problem.
However we tried large drones and they hit just aswell and the frigate could not hit them at all.
Something needs to be looked at there.
BS v Interceptor.
Same mega, amarr inteceptor. large guns couldnt touch it as couldnt med guns. (orbiting at 2k)
With a single webby i was able to score good hits with the med guns and average hits with the large guns.
Bs v Rupture. (rupture using an Ab not a MWD)
Same as above. However to hit the rupture with large guns i had to double webby it. Now this seems weird as the rupture is a fair bit larger than the inteceptor etc.
Needs to be looked at.
All in all the changes are good. If a lone BS meets maybee even 2 or 3 frigates its gonne be in serious trouble. 2 or 3 frigs with a rupture along with them the BS will go down fast.
This is a good thing. The only problem is the hitting of cruisers is not reletive to the frigates and also the fact that the frigates couldnt hit the large drones was weird.
-Aj-
WTB: Large faction smartbomb with good range. Top isk paid.
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Veskrashen
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Posted - 2004.06.04 05:56:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Andrew Jade
Bs v Rupture. (rupture using an Ab not a MWD)
Same as above. However to hit the rupture with large guns i had to double webby it. Now this seems weird as the rupture is a fair bit larger than the inteceptor etc.
Needs to be looked at.
If the interceptors were using MWDs, that would significantly increase their signature radius, probably enough to counter the lower relative speed of the Rupture. If they weren't using an MWD, then there is indeed a problem.
The results with the heavy drones are odd as well.
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Andrew Jade
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Posted - 2004.06.04 07:59:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Veskrashen
Originally by: Andrew Jade
Bs v Rupture. (rupture using an Ab not a MWD)
Same as above. However to hit the rupture with large guns i had to double webby it. Now this seems weird as the rupture is a fair bit larger than the inteceptor etc.
Needs to be looked at.
If the interceptors were using MWDs, that would significantly increase their signature radius, probably enough to counter the lower relative speed of the Rupture. If they weren't using an MWD, then there is indeed a problem.
The results with the heavy drones are odd as well.
Oh yeah forgot about that little detail about the MWd. My bad. Yeah the interceptors were using MWD's so that explains that (noob  )
The drones definatly need looking at though.
-Aj-
WTB: Large faction smartbomb with good range. Top isk paid.
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Nimrodel
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Posted - 2004.06.04 13:34:00 -
[58]
Death of frigates perhaps?
On a vigil i have a signiture radius of 85 m
With 1x 1 MN MWD i get a radius of 510 m
With 2x 1 MN MWD I get a radius of 3060 m !!
thats quite alot! that pretty much cout out using 2 MWD for frigates, and 1 MWD is still very easy to hit...
along with frigates no longer being able to use Cruise missiles.... is this the end for frigates...
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Nimrodel
Dark Force User
Joint Espionage & Defence Industries
---------------------------------------------
Your Medium YF-12a Smartbomb hits Rusty Cloud, doing 0.0 damage. |
Andrew Jade
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Posted - 2004.06.04 14:45:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Nimrodel
Death of frigates perhaps?
On a vigil i have a signiture radius of 85 m
With 1x 1 MN MWD i get a radius of 510 m
With 2x 1 MN MWD I get a radius of 3060 m !!
thats quite alot! that pretty much cout out using 2 MWD for frigates, and 1 MWD is still very easy to hit...
along with frigates no longer being able to use Cruise missiles.... is this the end for frigates...
You missed out one very important aspect. Using 2 MWd's is lame :P Its nice to see CCp is doing something about it.
This patch has made frigates scary i can assure you. Unless you set up for anti frigate or have escorts your BS is gonna go down VERY fast.
(which is a good thing, makes the game far more fun)
-AJ-
WTB: Large faction smartbomb with good range. Top isk paid.
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Altai Saker
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Posted - 2004.06.05 06:31:00 -
[60]
@ the guy who thinks frigs and cruisers can take out a BS, that may very well be true, as long as the BS isnt using any missiles.
I tried a cruiser wolf pack situation with a blasterax and 2 caracals, against a raven. The raven hit us all with every missile it fired.
A pack of frigs/cruisers wont have a single chance in hell against anything with launchers and cruise missiles.
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