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Eight
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Posted - 2004.05.05 12:18:00 -
[1]
Let's try this again. The new accuracy formula is now active on Chaos. There are some rough numbers in place for tracking speeds of all turrets, they will need to be tuned over the next couple weeks based on internal testing and feedback from players. NPCs are currently not being tuned so ignore any results from NPC combat for feedback purposes.
Please reply to this thread ONLY with feedback from direct personal testing on Chaos. If you have other things to say on the topic please use this thread which is already in full swing.
~Eight |
Eight
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Posted - 2004.05.05 15:22:00 -
[2]
In Castor 1425 and previous the scanner was using a different method to calculate transverse velocity than the accuracy formula. This has been fixed in Castor 1426.
~Eight |
Parallax Error
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Posted - 2004.05.05 16:19:00 -
[3]
Disclaimer: the follow results were obtained using castor version 1425 so any transversal speeds given were from the scanner display as of that patch.
Lipton and myself managed to get some combat in last night using various ships and turrets.
Firstly we used a couple of Apocs, armed with varying large energy turrets. Neither of us had much of a problem hitting each other from various optimal ranges, although it was noted that tracking disruptors make a massive difference. With 2 activated against me, my dual heavy beams went from good to excellent hits at 30km, to barely scratches and complete miss. The transversal speed involved was negligable, only upto 25m/s.
Initial reaction is that mid to long range combat between battleships mounting large weapons gives what I would term as normal results. Extreme range combat with rails and howitzers needs to be checked as well as short range combat with blasters and autocannons.
Next up was the same Apoc fitting with dual heavy beams (no tracking mods) against an Omen with heavy pulse lasers. The Omen could hold a stable orbit at 5km and was hitting for good hits upwards, the dual heavy beams however were constantly missing. I think I managed to score one scratch for 11 damage in about 3 minutes of firing. This pattern continued until out to 20km when I started to get scratches to light hits consitantly. 30km produced scratches to good. At all these ranges the Omen was maintaining a 200m/s transversal speed. It is worth noting though that i kept firing when the Omen moved from 15km to 20km orbits, during that period the transversal speed dropped to under 50m/s and I scored repeated good hits.
Having only used one turret type (which is a mid to long range turret) I can't really make any conclusions as of yet. I would like to see how large blasters and autocannons fair at the ranges we tried
Next test was with a Kestrel instead of an Omen. Suffice to say I didn't hit it whilst it was orbitting at any range upto 30km. I did however hit it whilst it was changing direction (very low transversal speed).
Next test was with a Punisher orbitting an Omen. The Punisher mounted medium beam lasers, the Omen heavy pulse lasers. At 5km and under the punisher took no hits but was only scoring light hits on the Omen. At about 7.5km and with a transversal speed of 400m/s both ships were able to hit eachother with the net result of one rather scorched patch of Punisher debris 
Final test was a Punisher vs a Crusader however they seemed to perform as on Tanquility.
I'm not going to analyse anymore, or try and form anymore conclusions as there an awful lot more combinations that need trying out.
My thanks to Lipton, for the tremendous help he gave to get these results. If anyone wants to help out with further testing, drop myself or Lipton a convo when we're on Chaos.
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Nightfang
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Posted - 2004.05.05 16:58:00 -
[4]
Drones still hit well beyond their designed range on Chaos. In my case it was Infiltrator scoutdrones launched from a Moa. My Rifter sped away but the drones were still scoring hits on me when I was 60km away.
As I said in the previous thread, I'm not sure if this is one of the balance things that has been "fixed". I think you will need to clarify more what you mean by accuracy formula.
Thank you
/Nightfang
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Eight
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Posted - 2004.05.05 17:04:00 -
[5]
Parallax Error: Excellent feedback, thanks.
~Eight |
Eight
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Posted - 2004.05.05 17:05:00 -
[6]
Drones have not been addressed yet and will be giving bogus results for the time being.
~Eight |
csebal
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Posted - 2004.05.07 00:51:00 -
[7]
Edited by: csebal on 07/05/2004 07:24:11
Edited by: csebal on 07/05/2004 01:16:46
Did some testing on tracking speed and its effect on combat against fast moving frigates with a m8 today
- all tests were done inside optimal range -
Frig vs frig combat:
using 150mm rails, one frig orbiting the other @ 20km, flying 1.5km/sec, both ships managed to score hits bout 80% of the time.
coming down to 15km, they started to miss quite often.
Said orbiting frig had no problems hitting cruisers or battleships, not even @ 10km orbit.
Cruisers vs Frigs:
Medium blasters were disappointing, frigate flying 350m/sec, orbiting at 5km, the heavy neutron blaster only scored light hit. Well, webifying helped there, but once i webbed the target, i wouldnt need the tracking of blasters anyway.
250mm railgun firing at a firg orbiting @ 41km flying 400m/sec only had 1-2 lighter hits every 10 shots.
Whatever gun i tried, 350-400m/s transversal speed seemed to be the line to cross. Once a frig exceeded that speed, you virtually have no chance to hit it. Not with medium or larger guns.
Battleships vs Frigs:
I havent had much chance to test large weapons, so no comments here. Fitted a battleship with 7x150mm railguns, and literally ripped a frigate orbiting @ 20km to pieces, no matter the 1.5km/sec transversal speed he was flying at.
Bottomline:
Well, generally things seem to develop well. I'm looking forward to see more of the changes coming onto chaos, plus i'll also do some more testing of other ship classes (having my most recent characters from TQ would help there a lot :/)
I'm somewhat concerned about the way sig radius affects tracking speed, but as long as ships of the same class can hit eachother, i think its ok. Maybe it would be good to give a tracking / sensor resolution bonus to the smaller weapons of each weapon size, to make them useful against smaller targets.
So instead of 100 sensor resoltion, a 75mm gatling rail could have 50, the 125mm rail could have 75. Same for light electron blaster and light ion blaster. Plus the medium / large guns like above.
ps.
There is a really nasty bug in the way damage is dealt:
Example - 300 explosive damage to a ship having 189 shields and 175 armor
Ship takes 219.9 damage instead of 120.
- First damage is dealt to shield: 300-60% (expl. resist) = 120 damage
- Then, damage is dealt to armor: 300-189 = 111-10% (expl. resist) = 99.9 damage
Now i do not know why it works this way, but it definitely does, verified its presence both on chaos and on TQ.
EDIT - Another note:
modules that effect your sensor resolution, like boosters or dampeners doesnt seem to affect the gun's sensor resolution. I don't know if they should affect it or not.
Weapon disruptors seem to work the way they used to do.
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This post is nothing more than my personal opinion. It does not represent the official standpoint of Fountain Alliance, or the HUN Corporation in any way.
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2004.05.07 00:58:00 -
[8]
Ok, managed to get some testing done this time with alot of help from Ulendar.
Ships involed were a Megathron, piloted by Ulendar and a Maller piloted by myself. The subject of the testing was large hybrid weapons versus a slow to medium speed cruiser.
All types of large hybrid turret were tested, however the results can be split roughly into 3 groups Blasters, Dual 250mm rail and the heavier rails.
Firstly the rails. None of the rails prove effective under the range of 20km unless the Maller was moving with a transversal speed of under 50m/s. Hits recorded were mostly misses with a few scratches and one wrecking hit. When changing orbit from 10km to 20km the dual 250mm did score several good hits from about 75m/s and under. At a range of 30km with a transverse speed of 260 m/s both Dual 250 and 350mm rails ranged from miss to light hit, when the transverse speed dropped to 200m/s hits were scored from light to good with the majority being light.
At longer ranges (out to 50km) the 425mm rail started to hit for good aslong as the transervsal speed stayed under 100m/s. A zig zag path approach was attempted from 50km down to 30km with the 425mm scoring regular good quality hits unless the transversal speed exceeded 100m/s.
So far rails do not seem to perform at all well against cruiser once they hit under 25km or so. Outside this range they are capable of doing damage. The dual 250mm seems to suffer the most however as its tracking isn't enough to make it useful at short to medium range and it suffers from range penalties long before the 350mm and 425mm. Its worth noting that as all of this was tested with a Megathron the rails were receiving a tracking boost, some further tests with a Caldari ship should be done to see what difference the lack of bonus will make.
Blasters: All the blasters seemed to perform very closely to each other with respect to tracking. The slightly lower tracking speed of the heavier turrets being made up by the extra damage they cause. Whether or not that would hold true against a frigate needs to be tested.
At an orbit of under 5km and with a transversal speed in excess of 200m/s no hits were scored against the Maller, with a transversal speed of between about 75m/s and 150m/s scratches and light hits occured. From 7.5km out to 10km good hits were regular underneath 150m/s transverse speed and at 250m/s light to good hits were scored with light being the more common. This pattern continues out to about 20km. At 20km it seems that against cruisers travelling at 260m/s transversal speed or less, tracking is no longer an issue to hitting. Ammunition choice became the prime factor in whether or not a good hit was scored, anitmatter rarely hitting compared to thorium and lead hitting often.
Blasters seem to be very much capable of hitting cruisers in the 5km to 20 km range although again they are aided by the Megathrons bonus. In this range the maneuvering of the Megathron had a profound effect on the accuracy of blasters. It was possible to drop the transversal speed of the Maller to below 100m/s if you got the Megathron moving parallel to the Mallers orbit. Proved very painful although thankfully didn't end up in a floating patch of scorched Maller!
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Gerome Doutrande
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Posted - 2004.05.07 13:12:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Gerome Doutrande on 07/05/2004 13:14:53
Edited by: Gerome Doutrande on 07/05/2004 13:13:43
tested cruiser (thorax) vs. frig (incursus) and battleship (megathron) vs. frig (executioner) on chaos 1426, my skill level on chaos is average 3 on all hybrid guns, tracking modifying skills at 2 average.
cruiser vs. frig (250 rails), stopped frigate, frigate closing in straight, frigate orbiting: scored good hits on optimal range (35-40km), felt similar to current tq with a bit less damage done on average.
battleship vs. frig (425s, dual 250s, 250s, large ion blasters, medium ion blasters), frigate stopped, frigate closing in straight, frigate orbiting, ranges 80km, 60km, 40km, 20km and 2.5km: good hits on frigate stopped and closing in straight with weapons of choice. orbiting frigate could not be hit by any large gun at all ranges, got some decent hits from the 250s in optimal range (40km) only, all blasters used failed to hit the frig orbiting at close range.
many thanks to kelly who piloted the frigates (and nearly blasted my thorax while i was afk). 
p.s.: my ships were not moving during this exercise.
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Evol Muhan
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Posted - 2004.05.09 03:38:00 -
[10]
I was just testing this on chaos, Dual 425s missing every frig at any range webbed or not. I really hope this dosen't make it to TQ like this. I understand 1400s not hitting frigs but 425 autocannons? dual 625's and 800's are the same. What i don't understand is no one complained or had much of an advantge before, so why change it. If it ain't broke don't fix it. If anything tracking on small guns needs to be increased frigs with a MWD miss quite a bit.
"No rest for the wicked."
Selling signatures starting at 3mil Isk, send eve-mail for info. |
ClawHammer III
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Posted - 2004.05.09 17:46:00 -
[11]
The signature radius on drones needs to be increased. Even using light blasters in an Incursus I had trouble hiting them unless the drone and my ship were at a relative stop.
Also, something still needs to be done with battleship weapons vs. frigates. It's pretty much impossable to hit an orbiting frigate with large blasters in a Megathron even if it's webed. On the flip side cruise missles and torpedos have no problem at all hitting them when webed. Eaither large turret tracking vs. frigates needs to be improved or cruise missles and torpedos need major agility nerfs so that they can't hit an orbiting frig while webed... like the large turrets.
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2004.05.10 00:39:00 -
[12]
From the testing I have done so far, the problem doesn't seem to be frigates. Cruiser weapons do well enough against them except for point blank range. The problem lies in frigates with an MWD equipped. The current tracking model on chaos isn't far off in my opinion, fine tuning aside, however something needs to be changed to 1 MN mwd's.
The most reasonable way forward from my point of view would be to drastically increases the cap usage of the 1mn MWD's to the point where they can only run 3-5 cycles before they totally drain a frigates cap. The only problem with this would be that the agility changes to missiles would need to be introduced aswell so frigates aren't cruise missile bait.
Under the premise that the 1mn mwd is the problem and not the curent tracking model or frigates in general, i'd suggest continued testing without them. I'd love to try out some mixed fleet mock battles on chaos.
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Ossprey
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Posted - 2004.05.10 01:21:00 -
[13]
Why shouldent frig's be able to outrun Battleships??
It keeps the Battleship's out of the Noob Sectors if they cant hit a Frig
The Smaller MN MWD should Be increased so Noob's Can Run without getting PK'd (More Drop's of Named MWD 1's)
A noob Should be able to Run from Gate pirates as they seldom have the finaces to pay up and it's discoureging being taken out by a single shot from a Battleship
these are my 2 bit's being a Noob and all
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Raknor
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Posted - 2004.05.10 03:31:00 -
[14]
After playing with a Apoc with all the different L lasers on it trying to attack Punishers and Mallers. I'm a little confused exactly when the scan resolution come into play. At first look I though a L gun with 400m scan trying to hit a Punisher with a sig of 27m with both ship at a stop would have a base of 6.75%(27/400=% to hit) to hit. When both ships were at full stops though I hit 100% of the time. If anyone can explain to me what exactly the scan resolutions are sapose to represent it will make further testing much easier.
May your gunÆs strike truth into those who wish to oppress it. |
ClawHammer III
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Posted - 2004.05.10 03:41:00 -
[15]
Edited by: ClawHammer III on 10/05/2004 03:43:33
 Originally by: Kalki Nibiru
Originally by: ClawHammer III
The signature radius on drones needs to be increased. Even using light blasters in an Incursus I had trouble hiting them unless the drone and my ship were at a relative stop.
Also, something still needs to be done with battleship weapons vs. frigates. It's pretty much impossable to hit an orbiting frigate with large blasters in a Megathron even if it's webed. On the flip side cruise missles and torpedos have no problem at all hitting them when webed. Eaither large turret tracking vs. frigates needs to be improved or cruise missles and torpedos need major agility nerfs so that they can't hit an orbiting frig while webed... like the large turrets.
The tracking for battleships vs. frigates doesnt need to be changed, battleship weapons should stay as is. As a battleship pilot you have the option to go for as much damage as possilble, or have a ballanced load out to take out smaller ships. You could easily eqiup a dual 250mm and take out that frigate, if that is not yet the case, the tracking of those guns should be changed so they are usefull. The whole idea behind these changes is to make Battleships less "one ship army", instead of having an powerful vs. everything ship, you are now forced to have a cruiser escort to take out those frigates/cruisers that get in close, or you equip some dual 250's to go solo.
Ok, you totally missed the point of my post. My point is that battleship weapons are unbalanced in the regard that cruise missiles and torpedoes can hit webbed frigs, with or without MWD, while large turrets don't stand a chance even with the frigate webbed.
I'm not saying that large turrets should still be uber vs. frigs. I just want some consistency. If large turrets are ineffective against frigs then so should cruise missiles and torps.
Also if they nerf the ability of frigates to run MWDs continuously then they will be helpless against missiles... unless they make changes to missile agility like I was suggesting or some other change to limit the effectiveness of cruise missiles and torps against frigates.
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csebal
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Posted - 2004.05.10 07:22:00 -
[16]
Edited by: csebal on 10/05/2004 12:27:56
Originally by: Eight
Please reply to this thread ONLY with feedback from direct personal testing on Chaos. If you have other things to say on the topic please use this thread which is already in full swing.
Good to see you guys posting here are sticking to what Eight asked ;) Ah well..
Other than that, ideal balance would be: frig weapons to hit pods/frigs+, cruiser weapons to hit frigs/cruisers+, bs weapons to hit cruisers/battleships+. 'nuff said.
***EDIT:
Originally by: Raknor
If anyone can explain to me what exactly the scan resolutions are sapose to represent it will make further testing much easier.
Scan resolution affects your effective tracking speed. A gun with 100m scan can hit targets with 100m sig radius using their base tracking speed. Against targets with 50m sig radius, it would have its effective tracking speed halved, against targets with 200m sig radius, it would have its effective tracking speed doubled.
Effective Tracking Speed = Base Tracking Speed * (Target's Sig. Radius / Weapon's Sensor Resolution)
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This post is nothing more than my personal opinion. It does not represent the official standpoint of Fountain Alliance, or the HUN Corporation in any way.
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Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2004.05.10 07:28:00 -
[17]
(I deleted my posts to clean the thread up for eight)
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate
.
<Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Eight
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Posted - 2004.05.10 16:25:00 -
[18]
Updating Chaos with some new values.
NPCs now have sane values for accuracy and signature radius.
The short range turrets (pulse lasers, autocannons, blasters) have improved tracking.
Previously all turrets in a single type and class (example: Hybrid type, Railgun class. Or Energy type, Pulse Laser class) and size (S M L) had the same tracking speed. That is 250mm railgun, 200mm railgun, and dual 150mm railgun had the same tracking speed. Now they have tracking speeds proportional to their range.
Microwarpdrives now give an increase to signature radius equal to their boost to speed. So a frigate at top speed with a MWD should be equally hittable as the same frigate in the same situation at top speed without a MWD.
---------------------
Please limit replies in this thread to only feedback from direct personal testing on Chaos, and direct all general comments to this thread (which I am in fact reading much of).
~Eight |
Garramon
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Posted - 2004.05.11 05:59:00 -
[19]
Just finished a short testing bout. Very interesting.
Battle 1:
Kestrel Vs Megathron
Megathron uses M blasters expecting a mainly frigate and cruiser force. Kestrel has CMs equipped. Kestrel locks and orbits at 500m.
Result: Kestrel does a nice job on the mega's shield, but not enough to to were the mega cant keep up. Megathron cant hit as long as kestrel doesnt try to maneuver. As soon as the kestrel tries anything but orbiting, bam the turrets catch up. Time for frig to warp or die!
Eval: I like it.
Other tests yeilded similar results. We couldnt try out too much, as we were in a system far away from anything, and it was OLD equipment.
Overall though, I like the changes. And it was really funny to fly fast circles around a scorpion in my shuttle! LOL.
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qrac
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Posted - 2004.05.11 10:25:00 -
[20]
medium mobile warp disruptors are impossible to hit with dual heavy beams unless you're completely stationary. i take it the same goes for cargo cans.. making it very hard to destroy them.
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Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.05.12 16:24:00 -
[21]
Eight sorry if this doesn't belong here, but TomB's sticky is a bit crowded so i figured i'll copy this here as well.
Missile flight time for Lights seems to be to short.
Missile frig pilot : Standard missiles skill 4, Spaceship command 5 Evasive manuevering 4.
Opponent: Navigation 5 Acc Control 4 Evasive manuvering 4 Spaceship command 4.
Missile frig orbiting at 20km with opponent approaching with auto orbit set for 1km. Opponent reaching speeds of 1500+m/s lights exploded behind him 90% of the time.
Same for Missile frigate orbiting at 15km: a few more hits but more than 70% premature explosions.
Missile frig orbiting at 20km with opponent approaching with approach command. Opponent reaching speeds of 1500+m/s. Missiles went past the target turned fast enough indicated they had enough speed to catch up but in 80% of the cases exploded before reaching the target.
Same with 15km.
Missile frig doing 100m/s and opponent frig orbiting at 500m-2km doing speeds close to and beyond 1000+m/s. Lights missiles that had to chase exploded prematurely, a few of the missiles launched when target was passing infront of missile frig hit, some of the missiles that turned immediately to chase also hit after a few secs most missed though.
Is the close range orbit example results affected by the fact that Lights need more time to pick up speed as they have to turn at greater angles sooner to track the target?
Of course TomB has mentioned more Missile speed and/or agility increasing skills are on the way. But i think a increase in flight time duration is warranted.
Speed and agility seemed to work well, and if the missile frig is able to maintain 12-20km range it can scramble and keep spamming lights. With a 5-8 duration increase it would have easily been able to harm it's target with little harm to itself, assuming of course that Missile frig could maintain desired distance.
In a Kestrel vs Incursus fight, judging by the amount of missiles launched, these changes will make things interesting and many times too close to call, which sounds well balanced. However i believe that change to flight time duration is imperative.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Eight
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Posted - 2004.05.12 18:55:00 -
[22]
Indeed, this is the wrong thread for missile discussion.
~Eight |
Arthur Guinness
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Posted - 2004.05.12 18:59:00 -
[23]
I am testing this changes fighting npc's in a raven with 4x 425mm (AM ammo).
I got a 5x85k (Sansha's Mutant Lord) and 1x750k (Sansha's Overlord) spawn.
425mm vs cruiser:
As long as the trav speed stays under 100m/s i get decent hits at 25km and more.
As soon as the trav speed is above 150m/s i don't hit at all at 30km and less.
Once the cruiser was at 20km, moving at a steady 190km (160km ish trav speed) i didn't hit at all. 6 Wasps had todo the job.
This seems a bit to low to me, imo a BS gun should hit a cruiser at these ranges.
425mm vs BS:
No problems with those so far, i noticed that railguns seem to hit way out of their optimal range now, which is nice.
I started firing at 60km, the bs was approaching me with a trans vel of 140m/s
I started getting light hits at 50km and decent hits at 40km.
At 30km every hit seems to be good (many exellent and wreckings).
However at less than 20km, the guns miss a lot, and have problems damaging their target.
On my way traveling around i encountered a gate mob with some frigs. Using insta jumps i warped to the gate in jump range, targeted a frig and started firing, without ever hitting it. It was moving at 190m/s and was at 10-20km. This seems way OTT.
So for the time, my overview of the changes.
They seem to be a bit to steep, not hitting a cruiser at 20km that only moves at 190m/s seems a bit OTT. At least the occasional hit would be nice.
I do think tracking needs to be given a slight boost.
Not hitting a frig at 10-20km seems a bit unbalanced too. |
GardenerOfEden
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Posted - 2004.05.12 21:30:00 -
[24]
Edited by: GardenerOfEden on 12/05/2004 21:31:37
Can those providing feedback on the webify-to-hit tactic please include their skill level i.e. is more skill keeping the module active for longer actually a handicap when fighting a swarm?
Thanks.
EVE is a massive social experiment of human interaction facilitated by computer technology |
Darax Thulain
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Posted - 2004.05.13 02:00:00 -
[25]
Quote from Eight : Microwarpdrives now give an increase to signature radius equal to their boost to speed. So a frigate at top speed with a MWD should be equally hittable as the same frigate in the same situation at top speed without a MWD.
Where is the logic in this? And why would people bother training for MWD if they are just as easily hit with or without?
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hatchette
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Posted - 2004.05.13 06:04:00 -
[26]
I don't think signature radius matters for tracking.. it matters only for locking time. But i could be wrong...
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.05.13 07:39:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Darax Thulain
Quote from Eight : Microwarpdrives now give an increase to signature radius equal to their boost to speed. So a frigate at top speed with a MWD should be equally hittable as the same frigate in the same situation at top speed without a MWD.
Where is the logic in this? And why would people bother training for MWD if they are just as easily hit with or without?
In order to close in or move away fast.
In order to stay at your optimal while the opponent struggles to get to his.
In order to try and dodge missiles.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Eight
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Posted - 2004.05.13 13:45:00 -
[28]
Originally by: hatchette
I don't think signature radius matters for tracking.. it matters only for locking time. But i could be wrong...
You are infact wrong ;-) Please see this dev blog for more details.
~Eight |
Xavier Perez
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Posted - 2004.05.13 14:08:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Xavier Perez on 13/05/2004 14:26:30
I hopped on and did some combat tests. we decided to use our real-world loadouts rather than going for all tracking boosters and such.
Tested apoc vs Megathron in a short-range duel. Both ships used MWD's, the apoc was set up for armor tanking using dual heavy pulse lasers and the megathron for shield tanking. The majority of the fight, the apoc was the loser hands-down. The apoc's lasers simply did not have the damage to come anywhere near that of the megathron's neutron blasters. Both ships were defaulted with 2X warp core stabalisers at all times. No tracking computers were used. Most hits were landing in the scratch to "hit" range. The neutrons did indeed sem to track better than the apoc's pulses, because the overall damage was much higher from the megathron. Apoc got around 50-ish percent hits above scratch/none, where the mega got 60%+
Apoc loadout - 8 dual heavy pulse lasers with gamma crystals, 1X mwd, 3X Tech 2 cap rechargers, 2X large armor repairers, 1X armor hardener, 2X WCS, 2X cap power relays.
I dont remember the mega's loadout - it was shield tanked for short range combat with neutrons, and had a mwd on also.
The next test was 1 on 1, Apocalypse vs tempest at long range. Apoc was armor tanked as in the previous formula, except using 1 less cap power relay, a tech 2 coprocssor, and 5 megabeams. Range was around 56000 meters. In this duel, the tempest was also the clear victor - although the apoc could keep up with damage at first, the tempest pilot simply switched ammo types to get around the armor hardeners, and quickly won. The tracking of large lasers simply can not compete with the tracking on a 1400 howie. While the rae of fire is higher on he megabeams, the actual damage dealt is much lower than the 1400's, hich even scored a wrecking hit. In a good long while of fighting, the apoc scored not one hit above the base cap of 200 damage with its beams and freq crystals. Laser weapons are always, and only limited to thermal and EMP. The pilot knew what to harden against, so my damage was negligeable. There really needs to be an explosive (vaporizing), and kinetic (graviton maser) option for frequency crystals.
The next test was the same apoc vs the tempest at short range. Same loadout on the apoc as previous, with the slight change of an explosive armor hardener, and the tempest equipped with dual 650's and 3 gyros. This fight was just as one-sided as the megathron vs apocalypse, because the tempest kept boosting its shields while its weapons used no cap, thus it had plenty of room for damage mods the apoc cant afford. This fight ended almost as quickly as the megathron duel with the apoc also losing. So while the apoc's short range guns can track, their small damage amounts smply can not compare to the raw mauling power of the tempest, and freedom to switch ammo types to punch through weaknesses in hardening. Average hits for the tempest were within its nominal range, while the apoc's hits were mostly scratches and lights.
The third set of trials was vs a Raven. This is the only fight where the apoc managed to hold its own. A short and long range trial were carried out, and both of these battles were complete and utter stalemates. The apoc loaded with max guns, and the raven used racks of missiles and two 425 rails. Both ships fitted with 1 damage mod. We kept the fight going for a good 12 minutes with neither ship managing to do a signifigant amount of damage nor drain the cap of the other. This fight happened at a range of around 30 km, with the apoc fitted with crystals to give it an optimal of 36 km. Most shots did, in fact, hit, but the amount of actual damage was rather pathetic, as always.
Clearly the apocalypse suffers as an inferior ship in player-versus-player combat. I would suggest adding a 5% per level damage bonus with large lasers to the apocalypse, and remove the 5% bonus to laser cap useage per level. That would bring it more in-tune with the other heavy-hitting tech 2 battleships. Alternatively, add diferent damage types to frequency crystals to make lasers more versatile. As it stands, they are highly predictable weapons. (I really HATE having to fit projectile guns to my apoc to make it halfway useful in a fight. Amarr use lasers!)
Here's a list of suggestions for a set of frequency crystals.
1. Change multifrequency to 16 explosive, emp, thermal, and kinetic damage. Keep range and cap useage same.
2a. Graviton focused maser crystal - 24 kinetic damage, 4 thermal damage. +20% range.
2b. Graviton modulated maser crystal - 32 kinetic 8 thermal. -20% range
3a. Vaporizing focused maser crystal - 24 explosive damage, 4 thermal damage, +20 range
3b. Vaporizing modulated maser crystal - 32 explosive, 8 thermal. -20% range.
These crystals would give the amarr ships a fighting chance in combat, plus make combat more interesting.
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Darax Thulain
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Posted - 2004.05.13 23:59:00 -
[30]
Quote from Eight : Microwarpdrives now give an increase to signature radius equal to their boost to speed. So a frigate at top speed with a MWD should be equally hittable as the same frigate in the same situation at top speed without a MWD.
Originally by: Eight
Originally by: hatchette
I don't think signature radius matters for tracking.. it matters only for locking time. But i could be wrong...
You are infact wrong ;-) Please see this dev blog for more details.
*smiles* Ok, so clarify this for me if you will. Lets say I got a normal Breacher doing 400m/s passing across someones screen. And then I got another Breacher with 2x 1mn mwd doing 10000m/s across the same screen, this one having its signarure radius increased proportional to the speed increase. They would be equally easy to track and hit? So this would mean that that little frigate has the same signature radius as a titan or similiar in effect. So lets say that the Breacher with its two mwd's drops its speed to a mere 2000m/s, then that one would be easier to hit because it isnt at top speed of its potential?
"as the same frigate in the same situation at top speed without a MWD"..?
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Meridius
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Posted - 2004.05.14 08:01:00 -
[31]
Please listen to Xavier
Although i do not completely agree with his crystal modifications the tests he carried out are very real.
________________________________________________________
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Eight
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Posted - 2004.05.14 13:36:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Xavier Perez
The tracking of large lasers simply can not compete with the tracking on a 1400 howie.
Was this a 'slip of the tongue'? Without getting into a discussion about their respective overall effectiveness in combat, the Mega Beam Laser I has a tracking speed of .0075, where as the 1400mm arty is .00214. Both small numbers, but one is 3.5 times the other. The Mega Beam Laser tracks far better than a 1400mm Howitzer Artillery.
Other than that, thanks for the feedback.
~Eight |
Eight
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Posted - 2004.05.14 13:38:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Darax Thulain
Quote from Eight : Microwarpdrives now give an increase to signature radius equal to their boost to speed. So a frigate at top speed with a MWD should be equally hittable as the same frigate in the same situation at top speed without a MWD.
Originally by: Eight
Originally by: hatchette
I don't think signature radius matters for tracking.. it matters only for locking time. But i could be wrong...
You are infact wrong ;-) Please see this dev blog for more details.
*smiles* Ok, so clarify this for me if you will. Lets say I got a normal Breacher doing 400m/s passing across someones screen. And then I got another Breacher with 2x 1mn mwd doing 10000m/s across the same screen, this one having its signarure radius increased proportional to the speed increase. They would be equally easy to track and hit? So this would mean that that little frigate has the same signature radius as a titan or similiar in effect. So lets say that the Breacher with its two mwd's drops its speed to a mere 2000m/s, then that one would be easier to hit because it isnt at top speed of its potential?
"as the same frigate in the same situation at top speed without a MWD"..?
If you take two identical ships, one at max velocity (let's say 400m/s) without a MWD, and one running a MWD at 'partial power' to maintain the 400m/s of his friend. The one with the MWD will be significantly easier to 'track'.
Is that what you're asking?
~Eight |
Darax Thulain
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Posted - 2004.05.14 14:48:00 -
[34]
If you take two identical ships, one at max velocity (let's say 400m/s) without a MWD, and one running a MWD at 'partial power' to maintain the 400m/s of his friend. The one with the MWD will be significantly easier to 'track'.
Is that what you're asking?
~Eight
Yes it was. I found this strange as the physical apprearance and size of the ship doesnt increase when you stuff on a mwd. I would have agreed that the superheated engine exhausts would make it easier to LOCK but not to track, that seems simply not logical to me. But then again there might be something somewhere that I aint read.
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2004.05.14 19:59:00 -
[35]
EIGHT:
Even though "on paper" the Mega Beam shows a faster tracking speed than 1400 mm Howies, in game play Mega Beams for whatever reason miss and get scratch shots ALOT more often than 1400mm Howies do.
You might want to double check to see if maybe something in the coding is wrong for laser tracking.
The multi damage crystal idea:
I would think that would be a GREAT idea IF hybrids ALSO had multi damage ammo as well.
In fact Hybrid Anti-Matter ammo USED to give EM damage along with Thermal and Kinetic.
Even though Projectile weapons while can do good damage over time and switch out ammo, a person only needs to run 3 diff types of hardeners (shield or armor) to get a +50% resistance to all weapon types. Caldari ships can easily shield harden while Gal and Amarr can armor tank easy, while Min can actually do either fairly well.
Tracking without using any tracking mods from all I have tested atm is a VERY ugly situation. The one glitch I have noticed is straight attack speeds.
If the speeds of both ships are greater than 300 m/s and one is traveling in a straight line away from the other ship, the other ship is chasing it. It seems that the ships will miss each other ALOT even though the transverse speed technically is zero (they both 180 degrees to each other traveling at basically the same speeds). If the ship being chased greatly increases it's speed without changing direction then basically forget about hitting it.
Both ships were still within optimal range of their weapons. Tried this with BS vs BS, Cruiser vs Cruiser, Frig vs Frig, Cruiser vs BS.
I would like some others to confirm this please as this should not be happening from what the new formulas are suppose to calculate.
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2004.05.14 20:09:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 14/05/2004 20:16:58
Hmm since the same sensors lock and also track a target, whould it not be logical that if the sensors can see a target better they could not only lock faster but track it better aswell????
If you can see a object with your eyes better is it not easier to focus on it and then follow it better as it moves??
Take for instance a House Fly and a Fire Fly. They both the same size but one gives off bright flashes, which would be easier to focus on and follow around a room with your eyes??
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Arthur Guinness
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Posted - 2004.05.15 10:29:00 -
[37]
Mwd increasing sig radius and making a target being easier to hit is in game for balance reasons.
No need for any reallife comparisons, it's in the game for BALANCE.
It tries to prevent frigs from being invulnerable to everything by just fitting an mwd. |
Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2004.05.16 05:53:00 -
[38]
Removed, off topic
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Xavier Perez
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Posted - 2004.05.16 18:23:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Xavier Perez on 16/05/2004 18:25:01
"
Was this a 'slip of the tongue'? Without getting into a discussion about their respective overall effectiveness in combat, the Mega Beam Laser I has a tracking speed of .0075, where as the 1400mm arty is .00214. Both small numbers, but one is 3.5 times the other. The Mega Beam Laser tracks far better than a 1400mm Howitzer Artillery.
Other than that, thanks for the feedback.
"
No I'm absolutely accurate. Try out an apoc fully kitted with megapulse lasers and no tracking mods and compare it to the hit rate on a megathron with neutron blasters. You will see a marked and extreme shift on the benefit of the megathron both in damage and quality of successful hits. Info screens can lie. 12 minutes of parse logs dont. I'd suspicion that something is stanky at the coding level for lasers since they used to hit a LOT more before the big laser nerf.
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Eight
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Posted - 2004.05.16 23:10:00 -
[40]
Uhm... The Megathron with Blasters is the best tracking battleship. It's going to track better than the Beam Lasers. The discussion was 1400mm Projectile Artillery vs Beam Lasers. Beam Lasers are far better in THAT case.
~Eight |
Eight
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Posted - 2004.05.17 00:01:00 -
[41]
Interceptor Skill Bonus has gone from 10% reduction in Signature Radius per skill level to 5%.
The affects of Signature Radius on tracking are much greater with the new system, and a full 50% reduction was too great. Tests with 20% (Skill Level 2 in old system, Skill Level 4 in new) reduction showed much more reasonable results.
~Eight |
Thomdril Merrilin
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Posted - 2004.05.18 16:08:00 -
[42]
Should it not be 500% increase in signature radius when using a MWD?
or is it the whole idea to make MWD a non combat module? 
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Sirilonwe
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Posted - 2004.05.21 12:11:00 -
[43]
So there are my tests on Chaos 1518.
150 mm scout, iridium, orbit 1km, 0/10 hits, speed 220ms
150 mm scout, iridium, orbit 2.5km, 2/10 hits, speed 296ms, average hit 7
150 mm scout, iridium, orbit 5km, 5/10 hits, speed 306ms, average hit 15
150 mm scout, iridium, orbit 7.5km, 6/9 hits, speed 308ms, average hit 9
light neutron blaster I, uranium, orbit 1km, 6/8 hits, speed 260ms, average hit 20
light neutron blaster I, uranium, orbit 2.5km, 7/10 hits, speed 260ms, average hit 25
light neutron blaster I, uranium, orbit 5km, 7/10 hits, speed 303ms, average hit 31
light neutron blaster I, uranium, orbit 7.5km, 2/10 hits, speed 308ms, average hit 15
The average hit is calculated on shoots that hit the target. The target where guristas imputor, arrogator and invader. I was on board a merlin. My skills:
small hybrid turret lvl 4
targeting lvl 5
Hope this helps :)
_______________________
DSU Recrute!
Corporation PVP FR, nous formons les nouveaux joueurs. Travail salariÚ. Contactez moi ingame.
Forums DSU |
Darken Two
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Posted - 2004.05.21 12:49:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Darken Two on 21/05/2004 16:09:57
I just tried using a blasterthron on chaos against a giant secure can.
Using named ion blasters and speed around 160m/s I scored good hits all the way down to 4km after that it just missed every single shot.
Orbitting the can at 1km resulted in all misses as well. Moving in a linear path away from the can I started scoring hits from 4km all the way up to 20-23km or so.
I hope this is not how its meant to be as a totally stationary target should be hittable by any gun even at point blank. Will do some more testing on it to see how it pans out.
Ps. there are some issues with autoreloading. The raven I used would only reload one launcher and then would give me a message saying there was no ammo. I believe its the ammo stacking while reloading thing. If I staggered fire on the launchers it seemed to work fine.
Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
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ShadowHawk
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Posted - 2004.05.21 17:28:00 -
[45]
Would be nice if the devs would change the reload stacking, by taking out what has to be loaded into the gun instead of keeping what has to be reloaded and make a new stack with the remaining ammo... first of all your cargo would be less cluttered and second of all, you would still be able to reload more than one gun even if there was lag... worst thing that can happen is that by the time it tries to take ammo from the main stack that there is none or not enough left, which in either case can be handled by normal error handling.
Your 280mm 'Scout' Artillery I perfectly strikes Sansha's Scavenger, wrecking for 264.3 damage.
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Darken Two
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Posted - 2004.05.21 19:58:00 -
[46]
Had a little duel with a raven using a blaster equipped megathron. I'm not sure if this is an intended feature but I couldnt get close to him because the torps kept rocking my ship constantly changing its direction and speed.
Also used an apoc to test npcs. six megabeams used at 15km from a 85k sanasha rat produced no damage for a full ten minutes before I decided it wouldnt work. As much as I like the tracking changes I feel thats taking it a bit too far.
Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
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YuuKnow
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Posted - 2004.05.22 12:02:00 -
[47]
So I'm getting the impression from these post that the percent hits fall off rather quickly once inside a certain range? Even when targets are stationary or medium guns used?
I would get on Chaos myself and test but I can't get on for the life of me.
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Jeebs
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Posted - 2004.05.23 12:01:00 -
[48]
has anyone tested the effects of different ranged ammo's in proportion to total damage over a period of time.
completely theorhetical numbers
i.e. 1400mm howie, with EMP or phased plasma vs 1400mm howie with proton or depleted uranium.
it would seem to me that while the heavier ammo (emp, phased) doesn't hit as often, the f
alloff (and more so with related falloff skills) ranges allow for damage to still be dealt at a reduced percentage, vs. a more steady hit base with lighter ammo (proton)
say emp or phased averages 200 damage per hit over 10 shots (7 misses, 3 hits @ 667) but proton only does average 96 damage per hit (2 misses, 8 hits @ 120) at similiar ranges.
this leaves me struggling to find the advantages of using these lighter ammos.
(\_/)
(x.x)
(> <) This was Bunny. Kill Bunny and stop him from achieving world domination. |
Darnell
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Posted - 2004.05.27 07:28:00 -
[49]
hi there,
dont know if this has been adressed to b4, anyway i go:
when checking things @ chaos i realized that the order of named siege launchers has been changed.
It seems the formerly 2nd best named siege launcher, the ZW-4100 has now turned the worst named one. The firing rate is worse than the Malkuth launcher now, same goes for capacity.
I hope this isnt a intended "feature" as i just bought 2 ZW-4100 on TQ for 24 mil isk, lmao
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.05.30 16:46:00 -
[50]
Re: reloading
If you turn off auto-reload, and you attempt to do manual reloading, and lets say you have 4 x 1400mm turrets with EMP ammo, the EMP ammo shows up in the little pop up menu on the first turret. But not on the second turret, while the first one is loading.
So the ammo type is taken OUT of the available ammo menu while a turret is reloading (or a missile launcher)....is this intentional or some kind of a bug??
Sorry if somebody has already reported this, I didn't have time to read the whole thread.
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Neofight
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Posted - 2004.05.30 17:04:00 -
[51]
From what ive read/seen the gun takes the whole stack when reloading.
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Bella Verde
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Posted - 2004.05.30 18:59:00 -
[52]
Lasers with more versatile damage crystals would be VERY interesting.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.05.31 22:09:00 -
[53]
is it ment for battleships to use medium and small guns when hunting npcs?
if so then the spawns should not be mixed. battleship spawns should only spawn battleships, cruiser spawn only cruisers etc... becouse there is no way a battleship can hunt in 0.0 with cruisers and frigate spawning with the battleships since the battleship can only be good against one of them... and there is no way a cruiser can hunt cruisers and battleships in the same spawn since the medium guns and small guns dont do enough damage to the battleship...
or was it ment for that all of 0.0 should be teamwork area with 1 bs, 1 cruiser and 1 frigate hunting togather?
"We brake for nobody"
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Boborak
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Posted - 2004.06.02 16:31:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
becouse there is no way a battleship can hunt in 0.0 with cruisers and frigate spawning with the battleships since the battleship can only be good against one of them...
Not true. You could equip short range large weapons and get close to any target you wanted using MWD's and/or webbing, or you could equip a mixture of long range weapons with short range weapons, or you could use a variety of missiles or you could do any number of other things. Just because it's a frigate doesn't mean you need 'small' weapons, it just means you need weapons with faster tracking and shorter optimal ranges or you need things like smartbombs.
Obviously if you're trying to do max damage by equipping just 425 rails and siege launchers, you'll have problems with frigs. Perhaps it's time to rethink your weapon layout ;-)
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Andrew Jade
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Posted - 2004.06.03 15:46:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Andrew Jade on 04/06/2004 08:01:08
Did some testing just now on the latest version of the chaos server.
BS v frigate ; Rifter v Mega with large guns and med guns (blasters). (orbting at 2k)
When orbiting the med blasters didnt touch the frigate. The occasional tiny hit. Same applies with the large guns. We then tried out drones.
Medium drones worked very well and the rifter could survive against 9 picking them off pretty fast. Though I could hold 5 heavies and 25 hornets and so replacing them wasnt a problem.
However we tried large drones and they hit just aswell and the frigate could not hit them at all.
Something needs to be looked at there.
BS v Interceptor.
Same mega, amarr inteceptor. large guns couldnt touch it as couldnt med guns. (orbiting at 2k)
With a single webby i was able to score good hits with the med guns and average hits with the large guns.
Bs v Rupture. (rupture using an Ab not a MWD)
Same as above. However to hit the rupture with large guns i had to double webby it. Now this seems weird as the rupture is a fair bit larger than the inteceptor etc.
Needs to be looked at.
All in all the changes are good. If a lone BS meets maybee even 2 or 3 frigates its gonne be in serious trouble. 2 or 3 frigs with a rupture along with them the BS will go down fast.
This is a good thing. The only problem is the hitting of cruisers is not reletive to the frigates and also the fact that the frigates couldnt hit the large drones was weird.
-Aj-
WTB: Large faction smartbomb with good range. Top isk paid.
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Veskrashen
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Posted - 2004.06.04 05:56:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Andrew Jade
Bs v Rupture. (rupture using an Ab not a MWD)
Same as above. However to hit the rupture with large guns i had to double webby it. Now this seems weird as the rupture is a fair bit larger than the inteceptor etc.
Needs to be looked at.
If the interceptors were using MWDs, that would significantly increase their signature radius, probably enough to counter the lower relative speed of the Rupture. If they weren't using an MWD, then there is indeed a problem.
The results with the heavy drones are odd as well.
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Andrew Jade
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Posted - 2004.06.04 07:59:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Veskrashen
Originally by: Andrew Jade
Bs v Rupture. (rupture using an Ab not a MWD)
Same as above. However to hit the rupture with large guns i had to double webby it. Now this seems weird as the rupture is a fair bit larger than the inteceptor etc.
Needs to be looked at.
If the interceptors were using MWDs, that would significantly increase their signature radius, probably enough to counter the lower relative speed of the Rupture. If they weren't using an MWD, then there is indeed a problem.
The results with the heavy drones are odd as well.
Oh yeah forgot about that little detail about the MWd. My bad. Yeah the interceptors were using MWD's so that explains that (noob  )
The drones definatly need looking at though.
-Aj-
WTB: Large faction smartbomb with good range. Top isk paid.
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Nimrodel
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Posted - 2004.06.04 13:34:00 -
[58]
Death of frigates perhaps?
On a vigil i have a signiture radius of 85 m
With 1x 1 MN MWD i get a radius of 510 m
With 2x 1 MN MWD I get a radius of 3060 m !!
thats quite alot! that pretty much cout out using 2 MWD for frigates, and 1 MWD is still very easy to hit...
along with frigates no longer being able to use Cruise missiles.... is this the end for frigates...
---------------------------------------------
Nimrodel
Dark Force User
Joint Espionage & Defence Industries
---------------------------------------------
Your Medium YF-12a Smartbomb hits Rusty Cloud, doing 0.0 damage. |
Andrew Jade
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Posted - 2004.06.04 14:45:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Nimrodel
Death of frigates perhaps?
On a vigil i have a signiture radius of 85 m
With 1x 1 MN MWD i get a radius of 510 m
With 2x 1 MN MWD I get a radius of 3060 m !!
thats quite alot! that pretty much cout out using 2 MWD for frigates, and 1 MWD is still very easy to hit...
along with frigates no longer being able to use Cruise missiles.... is this the end for frigates...
You missed out one very important aspect. Using 2 MWd's is lame :P Its nice to see CCp is doing something about it.
This patch has made frigates scary i can assure you. Unless you set up for anti frigate or have escorts your BS is gonna go down VERY fast.
(which is a good thing, makes the game far more fun)
-AJ-
WTB: Large faction smartbomb with good range. Top isk paid.
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Altai Saker
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Posted - 2004.06.05 06:31:00 -
[60]
@ the guy who thinks frigs and cruisers can take out a BS, that may very well be true, as long as the BS isnt using any missiles.
I tried a cruiser wolf pack situation with a blasterax and 2 caracals, against a raven. The raven hit us all with every missile it fired.
A pack of frigs/cruisers wont have a single chance in hell against anything with launchers and cruise missiles.
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SuperCharger
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Posted - 2004.06.05 10:57:00 -
[61]
Done some testing on chaos - 1400s have had a major tracking nerf they cant even hit BSs at thier optimal range. 425s and 350s sometimes struggle to hit other BSs too but far less so than the 1400
-----------------------------------
Your 250mm Railgun I perfectly strikes Blood Arch Engraver, wrecking for 430.3 damage. |
Takrolimus
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Posted - 2004.06.05 12:34:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Andrew Jade
All in all the changes are good. If a lone BS meets maybee even 2 or 3 frigates its gonne be in serious trouble. 2 or 3 frigs with a rupture along with them the BS will go down fast.
This is a good thing. [/quote
Is it? It seems to me now that only a few frigates will be able to take out a lone BS which will have lots of problems defending against them, even if prepared. Whether or not you choose to defend vs them, I am of the school of thought that 200k frigs should never be able to take out a 100 mil BS short of a small army.
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2004.06.05 14:53:00 -
[63]
The new Crus launchers are a nice addition though my own opinion and many others is that the rate of fire on them is way too low for them to be effective.
Perhaps a range of race restricted mods that help more defines each races 'speciality' is perhaps a better way to go.
Cloaking well it's nice though the speed restrictions on it are far too excessive, at the mo it's pretty useless cloaking and moving at 10ms. LOL
Something needs doing with the raven at the moment it's very out classed, probs with rate of fire and fitting costs of launcher bays being a major prob.
I would sugest perhaps as I've said that rather there being a zillion of mods were only a few are actually sort after by players as is the case now that perhaps each race has a selection of specialised mods restricted to that races hull type so there's more swings and rounderbouts in game.
Overall I think the combat pace is still too high, and doesn't allow enough time for players to use tactics which in turn stunts the fun of combat some, instead of slowing it down some and battles being somewhat more pitched and harder fought and therefore more rewarding and more forgiving to newer players too.
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Altai Saker
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Posted - 2004.06.05 23:56:00 -
[64]
wtf are you talking about? The raven rocks, you can torp spam for 500dmg a shot and tank. The cruise missiles can do an easy 350+ and never ever miss. If you are honestly losing while piloting a raven, you might want to reconsider your tactics or loadout.
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Serge
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Posted - 2004.06.08 19:48:00 -
[65]
Caldari once again!
Lets get started: Take Interceptors - without MWD they¦re a no-go, everybody knows. But MWD cause troubles esp for GUNS that need to hit a target. This is called TRACKING.
Take a Crow vs an amar inty this is the best show: both cruise at 3-5k/sec, the Caldari Inty can either stay at 40k and spit light mls at the Amar inty that HAS TO CLOSE to get a lock or it can simply close itself and orbit and THEN spit mls. And it wont have problems because the Amar inty will have THAT BAD tracking that it may take the Crow¦s shield but not more while the Amar inty will go DOWN!
Tried this several times and it is UNBALANCED!
Wanna get on to Raven? The Raven is UBER on TQ for hit an run AT THIS MOMENT and will be UBER^2 after patch. Extremly unbalanced!
Again its the problem with:
A. Tracking
B. MWD
Its simply ridiculous to have a BS moving at 5k+ speed, spitting missiles and not a chance to HIT it with NON-missile wepons. Even with missiles its not possible to hit the dual MWD ganking Raven several persons are using on TQ at this very moment.
This is simply not fun! Its that far from beeing balanced that it KILLS fun.
--> Take out Dual MWD!! this is killer no1! Bring Limit of 1 MWD per ship!
--> Bring in a solution for the extreme bonus missile spitters@highspeed have at this moment!
Fleet battles and suppport and whatever - yeah, Raven is not so UBER in fleet battles but still the only thip (besides Scorp, Tempest and Typhoon at a lesser degree) that can answer proberly :) while beeing target jammed.
Current Stats on Chaos MADE the UBER ganking vessel. Please think about this!
***********************************************
... "we suddenly have a good 2 dozen Chicken Littles running about proclaiming tha |
Arbenowskee
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Posted - 2004.06.09 06:56:00 -
[66]
I have a question about RoF of rocket launchers... The TomB posted that it's gonna be 4 sec, but on chaos it's 10 sec? A bit extreme, since rockets don't do alot of DMG.
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2004.06.11 01:53:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Altai Saker
wtf are you talking about? The raven rocks, you can torp spam for 500dmg a shot and tank. The cruise missiles can do an easy 350+ and never ever miss. If you are honestly losing while piloting a raven, you might want to reconsider your tactics or loadout.
Cruise Missile Launcher.... Cruise Missile Launcher... ROFL
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SaintLuck
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Posted - 2004.06.12 03:37:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Serge
Caldari once again!
Lets get started: Take Interceptors - without MWD they¦re a no-go, everybody knows. But MWD cause troubles esp for GUNS that need to hit a target. This is called TRACKING.
Take a Crow vs an amar inty this is the best show: both cruise at 3-5k/sec, the Caldari Inty can either stay at 40k and spit light mls at the Amar inty that HAS TO CLOSE to get a lock or it can simply close itself and orbit and THEN spit mls. And it wont have problems because the Amar inty will have THAT BAD tracking that it may take the Crow¦s shield but not more while the Amar inty will go DOWN!
Tried this several times and it is UNBALANCED!
Wanna get on to Raven? The Raven is UBER on TQ for hit an run AT THIS MOMENT and will be UBER^2 after patch. Extremly unbalanced!
Again its the problem with:
A. Tracking
B. MWD
Its simply ridiculous to have a BS moving at 5k+ speed, spitting missiles and not a chance to HIT it with NON-missile wepons. Even with missiles its not possible to hit the dual MWD ganking Raven several persons are using on TQ at this very moment.
This is simply not fun! Its that far from beeing balanced that it KILLS fun.
--> Take out Dual MWD!! this is killer no1! Bring Limit of 1 MWD per ship!
--> Bring in a solution for the extreme bonus missile spitters@highspeed have at this moment!
Fleet battles and suppport and whatever - yeah, Raven is not so UBER in fleet battles but still the only thip (besides Scorp, Tempest and Typhoon at a lesser degree) that can answer proberly :) while beeing target jammed.
Current Stats on Chaos MADE the UBER ganking vessel. Please think about this!
What type of loadout r they running? R they using smaller launchers or are cruise missles still good enough to hit things running 300-500kms? Ive just recently started hearing about this dualmwd stuff on a raven so im curious.
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