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Stephannus Calimben
Trill Crabulas
Nihil-Obstat
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Posted - 2008.05.30 07:18:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Stephannus Calimben on 30/05/2008 07:19:26
 Originally by: http://www.iamcal.com/toys/colors/stats.php
1 in 12 people have some sort of color deficiency. About 8% of men and 0.4% of women in the US.
I've seen this come up in G-D before, and have brought it up myself in fact, and have always seen support for the motion.
Being colour blind myself, I find certain aspects of the UI absolutely horrific to deal with. Things like the little red star that indicates a war target on overview, compared to the green star that means corp-mate. I've dealt with this by removing corpmates from overview, but should this REALLY be necessary? Should I have to give up the functionality of being able to notice that unexpected corpmate in space because the UI is incapable of helping me distinguish between a tiny little red box and a tiny little green box?
People with bounties are distinguished with a skull in that box, why must war targets be a star exactly like corp and alliance mates? why not [w] instead of [*]?
Another thing are the fx that indicate a target scrambling/webbing/nossing/whatever me. I was pvping for a good 6 months before I even knew these existed, and only because a corpmate mentioned them on vent one time. With all the random flashes and skybox crap going on I still can't pick these out in the heat of the battle.
I'm sure other colour blind people out there could point out other issues, but those are the only ones that come to mind this late at night. My point here, however, is that a full 8% of males (using US statistics) are colourblind. Since Eve's playerbase is mostly male, and assuming that eve players are no more or less likely to be colour blind than the US sample, that means that a full 8% of Eve players are affected by the same issues I'm having. I'm not going to trivialize the amount of work that goes into programming UI, but I sincerely doubt that the issues I mentioned would require any more than a small amount of manpower to correct to facilitate better functionality for colour-blind players.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.05.30 07:24:00 -
[2]
8%? That is a lot. It's almost the same amount of people who voted for the CSM!
That means we have 27,5k colourblind users, on average, in eve.
This is a considerable amount of people. I think we should have a look at this!
I can't imagine what it's like to try and figure out if your modules are on. Even I can at time have a hard time figuring it out, due to the very dim light.
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Stephannus Calimben
Trill Crabulas
Nihil-Obstat
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Posted - 2008.05.30 07:33:00 -
[3]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
8%? That is a lot. It's almost the same amount of people who voted for the CSM!
That means we have 27,5k colourblind users, on average, in eve.
This is a considerable amount of people. I think we should have a look at this!
I can't imagine what it's like to try and figure out if your modules are on. Even I can at time have a hard time figuring it out, due to the very dim light.
mmmhm. When its all 8 of my guns flashing green, or all 8 flashing red, it's easy for me to tell.
However, when if i accidentally turn off 7 of the 8? SOL buddy, not gunna find that one out until after every other gun's cycle is over and the remaining one starts a new one. Never had this been the critical 5 seconds between me and deagressing to jump through a gate/jump, but it has annoyed me by wasting cap on smartbombs, wasting cap boosters, polishing off a ship that was meant to be ransomed, etc etc etc.
For reference, the defacto thread on the issue in F&I is 7 pages long, 203 posts, 16,545 reads.
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J'Mkarr Soban
Proxenetae Invicti
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Posted - 2008.05.30 08:12:00 -
[4]
--
These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work. |
Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.05.30 08:15:00 -
[5]
Plenty of backgrounds that make hard to check module activation even for non colorblind people.
Fully supported.
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Vanessa Vale
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Posted - 2008.05.30 08:52:00 -
[6]
And months and months and expansions later, we still have green on green. 
Minmatar Boost Brigade |
Major Death
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.05.30 09:30:00 -
[7]
This fix is long overdue. Sometimes it feels like the colour scheme was designed to annoy people with colour blindness*.
*Not true, it just feels that way
My original sig was 'Enjoy lag free play in a dynamic space MMORPG'. It was removed for lack of EVE content! ;)
CCP say 'Shut up about bugs and eat your eye candy!' |
Ameliorate
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Posted - 2008.05.30 09:50:00 -
[8]
This issue deserves support.
----
Train skills, check mail and pay bills from your mobile:
Support my CSM issue |
Inanna Zuni
The Causality
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.05.30 10:03:00 -
[9]
About ten years ago I was designing an e-commerce system and had to take into account this very point, that red-green is the most common form of colour blindness (though not the only form). Whilst the colour of traffic lights matters less because you can see their relative position, where both colours can be used in the same spot they cannot easily be told apart, so yes I would like to see some alternatives available (either as a replacement for the current set or as an option).
In the meantime, you can override the default colours for background to set different options for friend and foe using the overview control panel.
IZ
My principles
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Koala Bare
VentureCorp
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.05.30 13:58:00 -
[10]
Signed, in full.
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Akiba Penrose
PAK
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Posted - 2008.05.30 14:09:00 -
[11]
/signed
- -
Falcons |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.05.30 19:57:00 -
[12]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 30/05/2008 19:56:44
One of my biggest issue was a week after they added checks, X's, and circles for the color blind in skill training, they came out with overheating, and it's really hard to tell what is on/off.overheating.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.30 20:03:00 -
[13]
Makes good sense. I'll toss in my standard plug in favour of CCP implementing a heavily customizable UI, so that we can deal with issues like this without waiting for a patch, but it should be don,e no matter the mechanism involved.
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Fix the forums! |
spurious signal
Brainiacs
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Posted - 2008.05.30 20:38:00 -
[14]
I totally support this idea.
I'm not colour-blind myself but it's always irked me how poor EVE's UI is for anyone with visual defects, especially the most common forms of colour blindness.
Many games overcome these UI limitations by allowing users to make mods (WOW being a good example) but EVE's crappy UI is un-moddable within the EULA.
CCP need to step up to the plate here and sort this out - either get some interface design experts employed and make it usable by everyone or allow greater customisation.
Supported.
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Lt Graco
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Posted - 2008.05.30 20:53:00 -
[15]
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Mighty Ahti
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Posted - 2008.05.30 21:11:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Mighty Ahti on 30/05/2008 21:11:29
I support the idea, but just for reference you can allow things to blink on your overview if they are unfriendly. Ie: You can make that star you get confused with blink for a wartarget and steady for a corpmate/alliance mate.
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John Holt
Plato Academy
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Posted - 2008.05.30 21:48:00 -
[17]
Seems to be a legitimate issue.
John Holt
My Personal Eve Site |
Dierdra Vaal
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.30 21:57:00 -
[18]
I support this, and I think it would fit nicely in a general UI overhaul
Recruitment Director :: EVE University
CSM Representative |
Talkuth Rel
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.30 22:09:00 -
[19]
As some have pointed out, there are currently options for changing the way firendly/enemy targets appear in the overview, although I wouldn't be opposed to adding more variety.
Personally, I have perfect vision, but even I have trouble distinguishing the green that shows an active module.
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Athre
The HIgher Standard
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Posted - 2008.05.30 22:39:00 -
[20]
not colour blind but sympathetic /signed
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Czanthria
Ad Astra Vexillum
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Posted - 2008.05.30 23:04:00 -
[21]
--
Knowledge is Power! |
Orontes Ovasi
COGNET SpaceSystems Ltd
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.05.31 01:34:00 -
[22]
Certainly an answer of:"it's easily possible"
vs.
"it's going to take a ton of coding"
shouldn't be too hard to get.
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Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L.
The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.05.31 07:06:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 31/05/2008 07:06:27
_
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Garthal
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.05.31 09:28:00 -
[24]
--
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. - Aristotle |
Hesod Adee
Xen Of Onslaught
Infinite Innovation
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Posted - 2008.05.31 09:33:00 -
[25]
/signed
I'm noticing it as a bit of a problem, even though I'm not colourblind at all.
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Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.31 10:44:00 -
[26]
I've also seen this come up before and not much action taken. There are problems anyway with making overview display just war targets so solving the whole red/green star issue for the colourblind could be a good way to solve the war targets issue as well
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Marton Gastolfer
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Posted - 2008.05.31 11:16:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Marton Gastolfer on 31/05/2008 11:16:14
Starting the alt vote queue  . There should be a better system than logging x alt to increase vote count.
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Ruben Istakar
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Posted - 2008.05.31 11:17:00 -
[28]
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Ghreymar LaNayeur
Pariah Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.01 02:55:00 -
[29]
/signed
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Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2008.06.01 04:35:00 -
[30]
I'm one of the 8%. I have an incredibly difficult time figuring out if a module is active or not. The only way I can do this reliably is to move the camera around so that the modules in question are against a black background. If there is no background, well... I'm out of luck, need to mouse-hover over each one in turn.
I remember reading about this on the forums when I first started playing Eve, and I was happy, thinking that the issue was going to be addressed and that fixes were already in place on the test server. I guess it was put back on the shelf.
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Flamewave
Crimson Moon Society
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Posted - 2008.06.01 04:56:00 -
[31]
The UI is tough even for people who can see fine. I fully sympathize with those who cannot.
__________
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Frug
Repo Industries
R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.06.01 06:19:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Flamewave
The UI is tough even for people who can see fine. I fully sympathize with those who cannot.
Exactly. It's terrible.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
Beaverid Tesu
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Posted - 2008.06.01 06:36:00 -
[33]
I'm not color blind so I dont know how debilitating it is when it comes to game play. Though, It makes alot of sence that people should be allowed to change colors(and for some, text size) of the UI.
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Dlardrageth
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.06.01 16:52:00 -
[34]
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Rionus
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Posted - 2008.06.01 19:15:00 -
[35]
/signed
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BlondieBC
7th Tribal Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.01 21:00:00 -
[36]
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Niraco79
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.19 15:25:00 -
[37]
Supported
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Cyberman Mastermind
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Posted - 2008.07.01 19:02:00 -
[38]
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Jannet Montard
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Posted - 2008.07.01 20:01:00 -
[39]
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Osanna Fouthard
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Posted - 2008.07.01 20:01:00 -
[40]
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XLR Eight
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.07.02 10:14:00 -
[41]
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Molock Saronen
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Posted - 2008.07.02 12:12:00 -
[42]
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Tomsudy
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2008.07.02 13:00:00 -
[43]
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Ranita Drell
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Posted - 2008.07.02 16:21:00 -
[44]
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Kalahari Wayrest
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.02 16:28:00 -
[45]
__________________________
Indulge Me
Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥
Wow immy scored  - Xorus
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Hamfast
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Posted - 2008.07.02 18:15:00 -
[46]
Please count this as 6 thumbs up (2 accounts with alts)
--------*****--------
Learn and be informed, because a Politicians worst nightmare is an informed voter...
So choose your CSM Candidates wisely
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Zaran Darkstar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.07.02 18:21:00 -
[47]
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Lucai
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.07.02 19:33:00 -
[48]
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Sarah Colds
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.07.03 05:25:00 -
[49]
you should be able to choose the colors green and red are really bad for color blind people to see
for example
you can choose color ON=YELLOW color OFF= BLUE color offlining= blinking white
i am AWESOME-O 3OOO |
Ajurna Jakar
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Posted - 2008.07.03 08:14:00 -
[50]
i support this.
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Antar Lechs
Schrodinger's Renegades
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Posted - 2008.07.03 10:56:00 -
[51]
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Baleygr
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.07.03 13:44:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Baleygr on 03/07/2008 13:44:59
100% support, I'm not color blind, and I have trouble seeing what of my 8 guns are firing and have to approach the screen to confirm.
Too much alpha on all those module pictures, not to mention some of them still have BOXED outlines -- for example fit a catalyst destroyer with 4x tractors 4x salvagers and you'll see what I'm talking about; You can see the bottom left corners of the image on the salvagers and tractors all across your top row.
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yani dumyat
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Posted - 2008.07.03 16:58:00 -
[53]
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Theronnos
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.07.06 00:04:00 -
[54]
Even though I am not color blind. I do, at times, have trouble to see which modules are on or off. Mostly when flying with a green nebula in the background.
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Vividvoid
Substantia of Mercantoris Nautaris
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Posted - 2008.07.06 05:47:00 -
[55]
I am color blind too, and I have a hard time seeing the health bars on targets if there is any kind of color in the background--I usually have to change the camera angle to find a nice spot of black space. Similarly, I cannot tell if a module is active or going to finish a cycle and shut off without a black background.
Even more worrisome is overheating! Even with a black background, I cannot tell if a module is overloaded or not!
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Hitachi Morimoto
Synthetic Light Mining Corps.
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Posted - 2008.07.06 05:50:00 -
[56]
/signed
i'm colourblind, and it's a problem.
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Commander Solo
Digital Fury Corporation
Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2008.07.06 14:52:00 -
[57]
Signed.
Not colour blind myself, but i know a couple of eve players that are.
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Dev Rom
Masterminds Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.30 20:55:00 -
[58]
Up!
I am not your carpet ride, I am the sky.. |
WishBlade
Caldari
Atomic Heroes
Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.07.31 09:03:00 -
[59]
/+100%
Aweseomenessness |
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2008.07.31 09:10:00 -
[60]
I support this.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. |
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Ms Scully
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.07.31 12:47:00 -
[61]
100% supported
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Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2008.07.31 13:48:00 -
[62]
very /signed.
having a relative who suffers severe color-blindness due to a major sickness in his youth (he says watching movies now is the same as old b&w ones), I believe this will help.
Also, stealth poke for UI overhaul
-
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Dihania
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.07.31 14:58:00 -
[63]
[hrhr]
Sniggwaffe is recruiting. Visit channel "join sniggwaffe" in game.
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Moizey V
nDvisum
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Posted - 2008.08.03 21:42:00 -
[64]
I'm not a colour blind, but was one when my cat have gnawed red channel wire in monitor cable. UI in that period was completly misunderstanding, I lost a lot of valuable cargo and ships.
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Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.08.04 08:06:00 -
[65]
This has my full support.
Diary of a pod pilot |
Andrue
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Posted - 2008.09.08 13:47:00 -
[66]
Yes. Of course.
--
(Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.09.24 10:12:00 -
[67]
Something like that would be good. Perhaps something as simple as chekbox somewhere in config screen to just replace the flashing stuff with some other color or even just adding some other marker to activated modules that are easily visible regardless of color used.
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Kale Murrow
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Posted - 2008.09.25 18:42:00 -
[68]
As one of the 8%, I wholeheartedly support this idea. While I've made various little tweaks to not make it so hard to distinguish between red and green, it still doesn't solve all the problems.
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Kailea Shandrasekkar
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Posted - 2008.09.26 03:33:00 -
[69]
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Padanemi
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Posted - 2008.09.26 07:00:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Padanemi on 26/09/2008 07:01:24
Supported :)
To throw in a chip or two, if you look up any organisations or government bodies that have anything to do with disabilities or the ahem, elderly, they might provide you with help on implementing this :)
I know the Teletext font in UK tv channels changed overnight, because of something like that ;)
And I also know of quite a few UI specialists that would jump to the opportunity to help out :)
PS: People, please don't be so harsh. It's really rarely that these issues are addressed, especially in computer games.
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Kadoes Khan
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Posted - 2008.09.26 08:12:00 -
[71]
A lot of features are based on strictly colors and I certainly support changing them(or giving the option to change them).
-=^=-
"Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
white kight
SwEaTy ArMpIT RaIDeRs
Coalition of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2008.09.26 09:18:00 -
[72]
One of the 8% here. I find it hard to tell what is turning off or active or overloaded. So signed
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Thread Locked.
Please note that the General Discussion area is not....
Oh who am I kidding - Continue 
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Erim Kaluk
17th Minmatar Tactical Wing
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Posted - 2008.09.26 11:40:00 -
[73]
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Blind Molechild
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Posted - 2008.09.26 13:55:00 -
[74]
i find it hard from time to time to see if a mod is on or not if there's a bright background. i support this, even though im not colorblind.
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Athre
Minmatar
The Higher Standard
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Posted - 2008.09.26 14:35:00 -
[75]
I believe this issue was already brought before CCP through CSM. The answer given at the face to face conference was that the developers would keep this in mind going forward(as a valid point) but not rework what has been done in the passed.
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Corduroy Rab
Xenocidal Uprising
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Posted - 2008.09.26 14:42:00 -
[76]
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Lrd Byron
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Posted - 2008.10.02 21:14:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Plenty of backgrounds that make hard to check module activation even for non colorblind people.
Fully supported.
Yeah, that aspect of the UI borders on comical. I have to move the camera so the buttons are over empty space just to tell if modules are inactive or not. I can't believe the game has been out for five years like that, seems like an easy fix, but who knows.
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Trist Ian
Free Galactic Enterprises
Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.10.02 22:45:00 -
[78]
As being partial color blind myself i fully support this!
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Odetta Harpy
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Posted - 2008.10.03 10:09:00 -
[79]
Yay for colour blind people
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Exlegion
New Light
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Posted - 2008.10.03 14:00:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Exlegion on 03/10/2008 14:00:46
Even though I'm not color-blind, I feel for you, OP. This has probably just been an oversight from CCP's part. But it definitely needs addressing.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
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sthymj
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.03 17:38:00 -
[81]
Red green colour blind here
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