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Phasics
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Posted - 2004.05.08 23:43:00 -
[1]
Recently in Ashmarir (0.4 system)
A pirate corp using several battleships armed with long range guns and a really short locking times (i.e though use of sensor boosters etc). Was ganking players from 160km away. Even insta-jumps did not ensuire you'd get though with there high dmg shots and extememly low locking times.
Now obivously they intentionally setup 10km past the sentry gun range to avoid being shot at.
My question is is this an exploit of the game mechanics ? Or just a bunch or smart pirates fairly using the system to thier advantage ?
P.S this is not a whine, I dont care either way since its a 0.4 system and no one should exect to be that safe in this syetem. I just want it clarified is this an exploit that should be reported or a fair use of game mechanics ?
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vecdran
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Posted - 2004.05.08 23:54:00 -
[2]
I don't see how this is an exploit...
It's just straight ganking though, which is pretty lame.
The Civilized Civire |
John McCreedy
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Posted - 2004.05.09 00:07:00 -
[3]
Target range of sentry guns is 150km. I can't see how this could be considered an exploit.
Make a difference
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Kirja Delantae
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Posted - 2004.05.09 00:14:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: John McCreedy
Target range of sentry guns is 150km. I can't see how this could be considered an exploit.
People can't fight back.
By the time they get in firing range, chances are their ships would already be nearing destruction due to the bombardment they suffer.
If the defenders use artillery weapons, so they don't have to move, the sentry guns will open fire on them and the attackers get away scot free. Again.
Loot from destroyed ships can be grabbed by an Industrial, which lurks around the gate, without suffering any trouble AT ALL because the sentries don't fire on them....hell, the sentries actually DEFEND the Industrial!
Even if CCP don't class it as an exploit, we can rest assured that the people doing this are, obviously, too cowardly/unskilled to fight without hiding behind game mechanics like this.
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Ly'sol
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Posted - 2004.05.09 00:22:00 -
[5]
thats why you use your map. See whats ahead of use...where the kill zones are. then you move around them.
--------------------------
Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.05.09 00:48:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Phasics
My question is is this an exploit of the game mechanics ? Or just a bunch or smart pirates fairly using the system to thier advantage ?
Answer 1: No, how could this be an exploit?
Answer 2: No, it's a bunch of stupid kids who thinks it's fun to blow up n00bs.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Leitari
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Posted - 2004.05.09 01:03:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Leitari on 09/05/2004 01:04:50
No m8, this isnt considered an exploit. I've done it a few times. It was quite easier when the sentry gun range was only 50kms. This is specially hazardous to Indys and Cruisers (frigates and interceptors should be able to jet by without ever getting shot at). I stopped doing it just because of one reason = its so fricking boring.
This is a profitable way though and its really easy to defend yourself against. Dampeners and tracking disruptors.
Here, Only the silent survive.
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Raem Civrie
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Posted - 2004.05.09 01:10:00 -
[8]
.4 systems aren't supposed to be completely safe. Sure, the sentry guns protect you somewhat, but Concord don't respond systemwide there. It's not an exploit, it's players compromising to reach a goal, no matter how ignoble it might be
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Phasics
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Posted - 2004.05.09 01:11:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Phasics on 09/05/2004 01:16:00
Hey like I said makes no nevermind to me (considering I'm setup for going though A2 a 0.0 pirate bottleneck killzone just a few jumps further on)
just wanted to know 
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Sqalevon
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Posted - 2004.05.09 01:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Leitari
Edited by: Leitari on 09/05/2004 01:04:50
No m8, this isnt considered an exploit. I've done it a few times. It was quite easier when the sentry gun range was only 50kms. This is specially hazardous to Indys and Cruisers (frigates and interceptors should be able to jet by without ever getting shot at). I stopped doing it just because of one reason = its so fricking boring.
This is a profitable way though and its really easy to defend yourself against. Dampeners and tracking disruptors.
I dont think the average traveler has a sensor booster on so he/she can lock back and use dampners.
What i do see as a option is remote sensor boost the gate guns :)
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SOL0
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Posted - 2004.05.09 01:25:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Phasics
Recently in Ashmarir (0.4 system)
A pirate corp using several battleships armed with long range guns and a really short locking times (i.e though use of sensor boosters etc). Was ganking players from 160km away. Even insta-jumps did not ensuire you'd get though with there high dmg shots and extememly low locking times.
Now obivously they intentionally setup 10km past the sentry gun range to avoid being shot at.
My question is is this an exploit of the game mechanics ? Or just a bunch or smart pirates fairly using the system to thier advantage ?
P.S this is not a whine, I dont care either way since its a 0.4 system and no one should exect to be that safe in this syetem. I just want it clarified is this an exploit that should be reported or a fair use of game mechanics ?
There is a remedy to the situation, if you are willing to take the security hit. You would have to have several sensor boosters so that you can lock a target at 160+km and in short time also. You jump into system or to the gate in question, lock the particular murders in question, righ click on them and then left click on warp to, select your desired range and then proceed to lock them down and blow them up. Since they are setup for really long range damage getting within 10-15km will effectively kill their ability to harm attacking ships and as long as you can prevent them from running away like the little children they are you can easily blow up their battleships.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." |
Kirja Delantae
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Posted - 2004.05.09 01:28:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Raem Civrie
.4 systems aren't supposed to be completely safe. Sure, the sentry guns protect you somewhat, but Concord don't respond systemwide there. It's not an exploit, it's players compromising to reach a goal, no matter how ignoble it might be
What about the safety which the AGGRESSORS hide behind?
Or does that suddenly become a non-issue?
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Cortex Reaver
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Posted - 2004.05.09 01:39:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kirja Delantae
Originally by: John McCreedy
Target range of sentry guns is 150km. I can't see how this could be considered an exploit.
People can't fight back.
By the time they get in firing range, chances are their ships would already be nearing destruction due to the bombardment they suffer.
If the defenders use artillery weapons, so they don't have to move, the sentry guns will open fire on them and the attackers get away scot free. Again.
Loot from destroyed ships can be grabbed by an Industrial, which lurks around the gate, without suffering any trouble AT ALL because the sentries don't fire on them....hell, the sentries actually DEFEND the Industrial!
Even if CCP don't class it as an exploit, we can rest assured that the people doing this are, obviously, too cowardly/unskilled to fight without hiding behind game mechanics like this.
Would you like some cheese with that?
-CR
/*
Cortex Reaver
crtxreavr at trioptimum dot com
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759
*/ |
Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.05.09 02:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kirja Delantae
Originally by: John McCreedy
Target range of sentry guns is 150km. I can't see how this could be considered an exploit.
People can't fight back.
By the time they get in firing range, chances are their ships would already be nearing destruction due to the bombardment they suffer..
I mentioned this when sentry guns were getting changed..people like YOU flamed me saying all i wanted was an easy way of ganking at 65km..well, as you can see camping at 150km is a lot less risky than at 65km
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.05.09 02:12:00 -
[15]
arghh
Wanna fly with me?
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Emil Antonowsky
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Posted - 2004.05.09 04:04:00 -
[16]
Damn carebears! its a .4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what more do you want? Sims-online?
No better way to steal money than free enterprise. |
Phasics
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Posted - 2004.05.09 04:17:00 -
[17]
Who's a carebear Emil ?
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Pandora Panda
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Posted - 2004.05.09 04:43:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kirja Delantae
What about the safety which the AGGRESSORS hide behind?
Or does that suddenly become a non-issue?
Ask CCP to remove the sentry guns and you can return fire until your eyes bleed.
I will assume from your phrasing that this is not the answer you want to hear though.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Leitari
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Posted - 2004.05.09 04:45:00 -
[19]
Well, the idea behind using dampeners, tracking disruptors was to have a battleship tanked up and once they aggression you can aggression back. Just to **** them off. Its annoying as hell coz they really cant do anything and you just hold them there. If they enter sentry gun range they're toast. Get the picture? 
Then they really get ****ed off, warp straight to the gate, tank the sentries and blow you to hell. But thats a different story. (Based on real events)
Here, Only the silent survive.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.05.09 06:04:00 -
[20]
Originally by: SOL0
There is a remedy to the situation, if you are willing to take the security hit. You would have to have several sensor boosters so that you can lock a target at 160+km and in short time also. You jump into system or to the gate in question, lock the particular murders in question, righ click on them and then left click on warp to, select your desired range and then proceed to lock them down and blow them up. Since they are setup for really long range damage getting within 10-15km will effectively kill their ability to harm attacking ships and as long as you can prevent them from running away like the little children they are you can easily blow up their battleships.
I am pretty sure you cannot warp to ships as you describe so this doesn't work at all. you have to fly out to them.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.05.09 06:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tenacha Khan
I mentioned this when sentry guns were getting changed..people like YOU flamed me saying all i wanted was an easy way of ganking at 65km..well, as you can see camping at 150km is a lot less risky than at 65km
I am curious to know if things are as you say why people didn't gank from 150km out before the sentry gun range increase? I mean, if it is so much better that way there was nothing stopping people from doing it before the changes but they didn't and seemed to prefer to sit at 65km.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.05.09 08:18:00 -
[22]
Quote:
This is a profitable way though and its really easy to defend yourself against. Dampeners and tracking disruptors.
Nuh-uh.
Those modules are counted as aggressive actions and will stop you jumping through the gate.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Meau
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Posted - 2004.05.09 08:27:00 -
[23]
From a hunters point of view it was much more fun with th 50km sentry gun range.
You could at least try to get to a stellar object behind the campers and warp to the gate at 60, but alas....
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Chade Malloy
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Posted - 2004.05.09 08:47:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Chade Malloy on 09/05/2004 08:49:13
Make a gang with some friends in Megas fitted for close range, take a rifter, fit 2 MWDS in, head out and race by the gankers till you are about 10km behind them (takes about 10 seconds to get that distance when properly fitted), shout "warp to me" at your friends in gang channel and watch as they rip the pesky gankers apart from zero range...had been done b4, works nicely.
Patience wins. |
Phasics
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Posted - 2004.05.09 12:37:00 -
[25]
umm all these advanced fleet tactics are all well and good but....
they all kinda depend on the fact that anyone travelling who get caught in a gank has a fleet to pop in and gank the gankers.
not really practical.
raise your hand if your has 5 Battleships watching your back every time your indi leaves a station.
Seriously if your just travelling mining your own busniess there is nothing u can do vs a ganking squad. IF your setup for anit gank then sure but then your looking for a fight people who get ganked are not expecting a fight.
so quit with the "oh u can easily deal with gankers if u do this bring this has a squad of these" its all nice on paper but it will rarely bee seen in game.
You know how I know this, becuase ganking is rampant
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.05.09 12:44:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Mon Palae
Originally by: SOL0
There is a remedy to the situation, if you are willing to take the security hit. You would have to have several sensor boosters so that you can lock a target at 160+km and in short time also. You jump into system or to the gate in question, lock the particular murders in question, righ click on them and then left click on warp to, select your desired range and then proceed to lock them down and blow them up. Since they are setup for really long range damage getting within 10-15km will effectively kill their ability to harm attacking ships and as long as you can prevent them from running away like the little children they are you can easily blow up their battleships.
I am pretty sure you cannot warp to ships as you describe so this doesn't work at all. you have to fly out to them.
you can warp to all targets you have locked when thy are more then 150km away
Wanna fly with me?
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SolApathy
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Posted - 2004.05.09 12:47:00 -
[27]
Edited by: SolApathy on 09/05/2004 12:53:16
It is unfortunate that they do not have a sentry gun corridors for the carebears. That would make it so much easier for them. Just have sentry guns deployed every 20 KM from gate to gate. I believe this is the only possible way to make them happy. Oh doh wait I forgot, need concord in those .4-.1 systems.
Come on now. If you want safety it's simple. Stay in .5-1.0 space & never leave. If you are going to take the RISK of traveling in .4 - 0.0 you need to get it in your little head you may just lose the ship you are flying. CCP has already made it hard enough to kill ppl & with the use of insta-jumps it has gotten even harder. We take our punishment accordingly with shooting people at gates in .4 - .1. (sec status hit). In addition it isn't that hard to see that there is a camping operation in a system. (hmm...12 ppl in system, no station and 15 kills in last hour) , as person said earlier, if you are not bright enough to look at the map and see that 15 ppl were killed in the last hour that isn't our problem. Go ahead flame us to death. Tell us how cheap and unfair it is, tell us how no one should be forced into pvp, or shot at unless they say it's ok. After you do that go out and buy "the sims", hopefully your sims can die of old age without ever worrying about pvp and we will not have to listen to you whine.
Originally by: Chade Malloy
Edited by: Chade Malloy on 09/05/2004 08:49:13
Make a gang with some friends in Megas fitted for close range, take a rifter, fit 2 MWDS in, head out and race by the gankers till you are about 10km behind them (takes about 10 seconds to get that distance when properly fitted), shout "warp to me" at your friends in gang channel and watch as they rip the pesky gankers apart from zero range...had been done b4, works nicely.
As far as that strategy goes...I have had ppl try that before. (I even had a guy in a tempest with dual mwd's try it once & he did not fare so well) The problem is it takes .05 seconds to lock that frig and about 2 seconds to kill it. If you are running directly at me with all my sensor enhancements you are going to die before you even get close to me. Feel free to try, though.
We welcome any regular PVP combat, unfortunately most ppl just run from pirates so it makes that difficult. In addition you have to understand that we need to make isk, too. We just mine ships instead of ore for money :)
...And NO YOU CANNOT WARP TO LOCKED SHIPS MORE THAN 150 KM AWAY.
I don't know where you guys are getting that from...The ONLY way you can warp to a ship that is 150km away is if you are in a gang with that person & you use the "warp to gang member" option.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.05.09 12:53:00 -
[28]
People see sentry guns and see safety. Therefore they think they have a right to 100% surviviability.
It would be easier if they just remove sentry guns.
Pirates would be more inclined to camp closer to the gates and that means they're so much more likely to be caught by bounty hunters etc.
As long as there was a decent CONCORD graded response to perma-camped systems.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Kirja Delantae
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Posted - 2004.05.09 12:53:00 -
[29]
SolApathy:
The biggest carebears in this are those hiding 160km away from the gates.
They get all the reward, none of the risk. The sec hit is neglible, as are any ammo costs.
I can't wait for the day people like you are whining about CCP increasing the Sentry Gun range again.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.05.09 12:56:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kirja Delantae
SolApathy:
The biggest carebears in this are those hiding 160km away from the gates.
They get all the reward, none of the risk. The sec hit is neglible, as are any ammo costs.
I can't wait for the day people like you are whining about CCP increasing the Sentry Gun range again.
well i see no picture -> new or an alt. so please dont talk like big daddy
Wanna fly with me?
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