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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.11 23:54:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto So anyone who opposes you is automatically a Goon and some insulting-sounding variety of animal, and as such their opinion can be discounted without further consideration? There are third-world dictators with less ego and chutzpah than that.
You might have a point if the titans into monster truck thread didn't exist.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.12 00:00:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
So anyone who opposes you is automatically a Goon and some insulting-sounding variety of animal, and as such their opinion can be discounted without further consideration? There are third-world dictators with less ego and chutzpah than that.
Those dictators have at least proven they can lead a country.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.12 00:23:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Jade Constantine You might have a point if the titans into monster truck thread didn't exist.
Hey, nobody here is saying that Goons are universally straight-laced, moderate, reasonable people - Tress is, from the looks of it, an avatar of at least 40% of what's wrong with the Internet. But in a group of 5000 people, there's bound to be at least a few rational, intelligent ones, and you ignore them at your own peril. And that's not even getting into your non-Goon detractors - is Hardin a barking duck? Am I? ------------------ Fix the forums! |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.12 00:26:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Jade Constantine You might have a point if the titans into monster truck thread didn't exist.
Hey, nobody here is saying that Goons are universally straight-laced, moderate, reasonable people - Tress is, from the looks of it, an avatar of at least 40% of what's wrong with the Internet. But in a group of 5000 people, there's bound to be at least a few rational, intelligent ones, and you ignore them at your own peril. And that's not even getting into your non-Goon detractors - is Hardin a barking duck? Am I?
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
So anyone who opposes you is automatically a Goon and some insulting-sounding variety of animal, and as such their opinion can be discounted without further consideration? There are third-world dictators with less ego and chutzpah than that.
Those dictators have at least proven they can lead a country.
A fair point, but given that Jade lives in a country ruled by Gordon Brown, I think Jade could lead a country just as well. ------------------ Fix the forums! |
Farrqua
Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.12 00:31:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto So anyone who opposes you is automatically a Goon and some insulting-sounding variety of animal, and as such their opinion can be discounted without further consideration? There are third-world dictators with less ego and chutzpah than that.
You might have a point if the titans into monster truck thread didn't exist.
Ok there has to be a point when common sense in these matters comes in to play. If the CSM and the playerbase can not actually tell the difference between Internet space ships and a frigging monster truck, well there is no wonder CCP has the attitude they do. I would too.
This makes absolutely no sense.
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Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.12 00:33:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Farrqua
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto So anyone who opposes you is automatically a Goon and some insulting-sounding variety of animal, and as such their opinion can be discounted without further consideration? There are third-world dictators with less ego and chutzpah than that.
You might have a point if the titans into monster truck thread didn't exist.
Ok there has to be a point when common sense in these matters comes in to play. If the CSM and the playerbase can not actually tell the difference between Internet space ships and a frigging monster truck, well there is no wonder CCP has the attitude they do. I would too.
This makes absolutely no sense.
Dude its Lord Emperor Jade Palatine why would he have to make any sense he has all the power to do whatever he wants.
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Fallorn
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.12 00:36:00 -
[67]
Why wouldn't the empires build giant monster trucks symbols of strength from tera where battles of wills and determination were won by sheer guts and determination. Its not like it would hurt anything it would be a symbol of pride. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
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Zorda
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Posted - 2008.06.12 00:43:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
That said, I think we've presented a very good cross-section of issues for this first session that do represent all the best suggestions made on the assembly hall that could be raised within the time constraints and 7 day advance discussion rule. If you feel we've forgotten something important that will have been up for open discusion for the 7 day mark by sunday's meeting then feel free to ask one of us to take a look.
I propose the inclusion of the drone module proposal. Considering that when the drone issuses get presented to CCP, the module and implant issues should be presented together, since there are obvious balancing challenges affecting both.
(Not sure if this was the right place to post this, since it is quite hard to find stuff in here and the Assembly Hall atm) |
Inanna Zuni
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Posted - 2008.06.12 15:07:00 -
[69]
Back to timing a moment, I'm not quite sure why it has only just hit me but I'm partially double-booked this evening with a 'real life' meeting also taking place (probably because it was originally going to be last Thursday and got postponed a week, which I hadn't twigged was the same evening as this CSM meeting!) Anyway, the other meeting starts at 7pm UK (ie 6pm EVE) and isn't too far from my home, so I will hope to be online by 8pm EVE. I'll take my laptop and mobile connection dongle too so worst case is that I am battery powered in the car ;-P
IZ
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.06.12 15:55:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni Back to timing a moment, I'm not quite sure why it has only just hit me but I'm partially double-booked this evening with a 'real life' meeting also taking place (probably because it was originally going to be last Thursday and got postponed a week, which I hadn't twigged was the same evening as this CSM meeting!) Anyway, the other meeting starts at 7pm UK (ie 6pm EVE) and isn't too far from my home, so I will hope to be online by 8pm EVE. I'll take my laptop and mobile connection dongle too so worst case is that I am battery powered in the car ;-P
IZ
Just in case of connection problems then can I ask you to make sure you mail in a list of vote preferences on the multi item Issues that we do need to vote for this evening please?
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
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Toffles
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.12 16:28:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Fallorn When are turning Titans into monster trucks getting on the docket it has more support than your ******** destructible outposts you role playing female love slave lady of the night you.
200 ducks can quack at the same time, doesn't mean their composing an opera. And yes, I mean that goon threadnaughts mean nothing.
Well Jade, I tallied the votes in that thread and out of 75 votes only 36 were from Goonswarm. That actually makes us the minority but nice try at trying to write off everything you disagree with as a goon conspiracy. I think if it came down to a vote between your horrible destructible outpost idea and the monster truck one most people would say yours is worse. 16 pages of discussion and only 39 votes of support is terrible. 5587 people viewed your thread and the vast majority chose not to support it. This just confirms what most people already know, that you're a biased****got ruining the CSM for your own petty purposes.
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Deldrac
Bat Country Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.06.12 19:40:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Deldrac on 12/06/2008 19:40:15 Is it possible to join the channel as an observer?
These things are comedy gold, and would be fun to watch live while ratting.
We should also set up a second commentary channel for viewers to chat about the slapstick antics live as they happen. |
Gabriel Darkefyre
Crystal Ship
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Posted - 2008.06.12 20:22:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Toffles 16 pages of discussion and only 39 votes of support is terrible. 5587 people viewed your thread and the vast majority chose not to support it.
Um, not to throw too big a wrench into these statistics but that doesn't indicate that 5587 people viewed the thread but rather that the thread have been viewed on 5587 different occassions. It could easily mean that the thread was viewed 100 times each by 55 different people.
Which is exactly why this forum really needs the potential to vote aginst a proposal as well as for it. Either that or only add to the views count on the very first time you view a thread. Then you'd get a more accurate idea of what the true level of support for an issue. |
Daktarin
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.06.12 21:59:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Daktarin on 12/06/2008 22:00:18
Originally by: Fallorn Edited by: Fallorn on 11/06/2008 23:38:40
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Fallorn When are turning Titans into monster trucks getting on the docket it has more support than your ******** destructible outposts you role playing female love slave lady of the night you.
200 ducks can quack at the same time, doesn't mean their composing an opera. And yes, I mean that goon threadnaughts mean nothing.
So your saying you would not give it any time at all even though you issue has less support just because you ducks masterbate to the thought of you.
No, he's saying that if you trained thousands of ****roaches to vote for you it doesnt make the issue worth dealing with. The problem with this was always going to be goons collectively thinking they can force issues by getting the person using the alliance braincell to tell everyone else to vote for something.
Unfortunately for ****roach-swarm this int working and you are now all having a massive cry fest because you cant have your own way. If u dont like it, quit, the game would be better for it...
But hey let me guess, I just "dont get goons"... well, thats no probem. I dont get ****roaches either, it doesnt make them anything other than nasty little grubs. |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:13:00 -
[75]
Meeting 4 is concluded, we discussed the documentation and debated the multi-item Issues. Took almost 3 hours with some good high quality debate from the CSM reps in attendance. Big thanks to everyone for this.
Serenity should be adding the chatlogs to the CSM site soon, but until then I've posted the log on the Jericho public forums and is viewable here.
Enjoy.
Next meeting is on Sunday.
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.13 03:32:00 -
[76]
A quick question? What the hell are you voting on? How can you "support" if a template document has been filled out?" Didn't you already vote on this stuff?
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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.06.13 03:51:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Goumindong A quick question? What the hell are you voting on? How can you "support" if a template document has been filled out?" Didn't you already vote on this stuff?
We were voting on the multi-part issues which were voted in last time, provided that they were split into more than 1 issue in order to ease discussion.
So we voted on if we could support the specific topic of each issue.
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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.06.13 03:53:00 -
[78]
I just want to thank everybody who turned up yesterday. It was a most excellent job in my eyes. Thanks for being so patient despite how many issues we had to vote about.
Hopefull the rest of our meetings will go like that!
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Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.13 04:02:00 -
[79]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Goumindong A quick question? What the hell are you voting on? How can you "support" if a template document has been filled out?" Didn't you already vote on this stuff?
We were voting on the multi-part issues which were voted in last time, provided that they were split into more than 1 issue in order to ease discussion.
So we voted on if we could support the specific topic of each issue.
Well I can answer that. Each issue didn't have a discussion thread, you couldn't.
Point of note on the meeting as i read it:
Inanna you are wrong about the market. The highest buy order and lowest sell order that is possible to be filled ALWAYS gets the item/isk when you well. No matter if you select a different order to fill or not.
iirc this is currently done to prevent money laundering where an isk buyer buys a bunch of isk then buys something on the market for an exorbitant price listed by an alt. The seller of the item could then claim "I just listed it at an exorbitant price there is no way i could have known the isk was bought". This is to prevent that.
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Nynaeve Ares
Animus Incarnate
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Posted - 2008.06.13 04:19:00 -
[80]
Good job chairing the meeting LaVista Vista. Is this permanent or is there a rotating chairmanship now? |
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Anton Marvik
AnTi. Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.06.13 04:32:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Anton Marvik on 13/06/2008 04:32:29
Originally by: LaVista Vista Hopefully the rest of our meetings will go like that!
Hopefully
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Wednesday Sheffield
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.13 05:06:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 12/06/2008 01:26:13
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
So anyone who opposes you is automatically a Goon and some insulting-sounding variety of animal, and as such their opinion can be discounted without further consideration? There are third-world dictators with less ego and chutzpah than that.
Those dictators have at least proven they can lead a country.
A fair point, but given that Jade lives in a country ruled by Gordon Brown, I think Jade could lead a country just as well.
Gordon Brown never made a hobby out of pretending to be a prostitute (that we know of.) |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.13 05:13:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Goumindong A quick question? What the hell are you voting on? How can you "support" if a template document has been filled out?" Didn't you already vote on this stuff?
We were voting on the multi-part issues which were voted in last time, provided that they were split into more than 1 issue in order to ease discussion.
So we voted on if we could support the specific topic of each issue.
Well I can answer that. Each issue didn't have a discussion thread, you couldn't.
Point of note on the meeting as i read it:
Inanna you are wrong about the market. The highest buy order and lowest sell order that is possible to be filled ALWAYS gets the item/isk when you well. No matter if you select a different order to fill or not.
iirc this is currently done to prevent money laundering where an isk buyer buys a bunch of isk then buys something on the market for an exorbitant price listed by an alt. The seller of the item could then claim "I just listed it at an exorbitant price there is no way i could have known the isk was bought". This is to prevent that.
Ikeep hearing this but I can buy any order I want.
and if not then there is a way around this, lets say there are two sellorders one for 100,000isk with 2 in stock the other at 50,000 isk with 10 in stock.
I buy the 100,000 isk one and put in 10 to buy.
I press buy.
I check market the 2 are still there at 50,000 I spent 1 million isk. |
LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.06.13 05:33:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Nynaeve Ares Good job chairing the meeting LaVista Vista. Is this permanent or is there a rotating chairmanship now?
The reason I was leading debate was because I was raising the issues in question.
But maybe that is a good thing, that it is kinda rotating in a sense? So each time we have a new person on the block to moderate the debate. I like that idea. Judging from yesterday, it could even work too!
Very interesting idea. We should talk about it, certainly!
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.06.13 05:35:00 -
[85]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Nynaeve Ares Good job chairing the meeting LaVista Vista. Is this permanent or is there a rotating chairmanship now?
The reason I was leading debate was because I was raising the issues in question.
But maybe that is a good thing, that it is kinda rotating in a sense? So each time we have a new person on the block to moderate the debate. I like that idea. Judging from yesterday, it could even work too!
Very interesting idea. We should talk about it, certainly!
Yep I think a rotating chair is a great idea. Share the admin load and give everyone a chance to do a bit of running meetings. Excellent stuff.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.13 05:40:00 -
[86]
Re the chatlogs - I'm not all the way through them yet, but I caught a line about how CCP won't let you abstain. What's the deal with that?
Originally by: Wednesday Sheffield Gordon Brown never made a hobby out of pretending to be a prostitute (that we know of.)
Yeah, but he's like Paul Martin without the personality. I'll take a bit of good old-fashioned eccentric sexual roleplay over the horrific reality of boring politicians of the centre-left. |
Goumindong
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.13 05:47:00 -
[87]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Ikeep hearing this but I can buy any order I want.
and if not then there is a way around this, lets say there are two sellorders one for 100,000isk with 2 in stock the other at 50,000 isk with 10 in stock.
I buy the 100,000 isk one and put in 10 to buy.
I press buy.
I check market the 2 are still there at 50,000 I spent 1 million isk.
No, you can buy at any price, and sell at any price you want, but not any order. The item will come from the person with the lowest sell or highest buy order, 100% of the time, all the time. |
LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.06.13 05:49:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Re the chatlogs - I'm not all the way through them yet, but I caught a line about how CCP won't let you abstain. What's the deal with that?
Well, I don't think it's as much CCP allowing us to abstain. They just never intended it to be an option. But in questions like this, it's simple. The options for voting are:
Escalate issue Deny escalation of issue
It can thus be argued that there is no middle-way and that representatives should want one of above to be true.
I think there is some matters where abstaining is viable. But thus far I see no reason to abstain. So I don't think it's CCP's intention to now allow us. They just had in mind that either you voted Yes or no.
But CCP wants us to shape the council. So we could raise an issue and discuss if this should be changed. |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.13 06:03:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 13/06/2008 06:04:51 Okay, finished. I'm amazed - you managed to have a drama-free meeting. There had better be beer and videocamers in Iceland, because I peace on the CSM is just wrong somehow. And Inanna, you're wrong - you invariably buy from the cheapest order in the station, no matter which price you pay. I got burned hard by this one when I was about a week into the game(lost my whole 3 million isk wallet) and I haven't forgotten it since.
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Re the chatlogs - I'm not all the way through them yet, but I caught a line about how CCP won't let you abstain. What's the deal with that?
Well, I don't think it's as much CCP allowing us to abstain. They just never intended it to be an option. But in questions like this, it's simple. The options for voting are:
Escalate issue Deny escalation of issue
It can thus be argued that there is no middle-way and that representatives should want one of above to be true.
I think there is some matters where abstaining is viable. But thus far I see no reason to abstain. So I don't think it's CCP's intention to now allow us. They just had in mind that either you voted Yes or no.
But CCP wants us to shape the council. So we could raise an issue and discuss if this should be changed.
I see abstention as mostly an "I have no idea how that section of the game works, so I don't want to fool around with it too much" vote in practice - I know there's a few issues I'd abstain on, and if someone as opinionated as me is willing to shut up, it's probably a good idea to let me |
White Ronin
Screenout
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Posted - 2008.06.13 06:33:00 -
[90]
Great meeting imo. I hope everyone involved thought so also. Now what was differant about this one meeting and the other 3?
Anyway, great job and thank you.
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