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Karhig Duruckhai
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Posted - 2004.05.11 10:46:00 -
[241]
I like the changes in some ways, but I do think that the class of missile that each class of ship can fire should be upped a level. Frigates fire heavy, cruisers fire cruise, BS fire torp.
I honestly cant see any way in which the missile boats will be able to compete with the non-missile boats now.
Think of the Crow (since I fly it). Its going to be a real ***** to kill stuff in it. I can only fire light missiles, and chances are without webbing the enemy that my lights wont hit. I still have to use an MWD since without it, any turret based interceptor will shred me in seconds, and BS/Cruisers with turrets will shred me in one second. I still need to use the warp disruptor to stop them escaping and I still need to use a web, since they can outrun my missiles. However, I need to keep all these things running for many times longer than previous, since standard missiles do sod all damage. I'm going to run out of cap before I kill them, no question. They're either going to escape when my disruptor/web fails or they're gonna nail me to the wall so hard and so fast when my MWD fails that if I blink I'll miss it. You give me heavy missiles I stand a fair chance, you give me lights... well... I'm dead in the water and twice as useless.
Of course, we'll have to have a play on chaos when the changes get put on. But its not looking good.
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mahhy
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Posted - 2004.05.11 10:48:00 -
[242]
 Quote:
Frigate pilots are happy for large guns to be changed so they can rarely (if ever) hit their small ship but when it comes to changing a frigate module so it is affected by size...................
I'm a frigate pilot, I even trained for and bought a Crow because it was so stupidily uber. Thats over with, I'm not complaining.
I like the fact that frigate vs. frigate is at least more balanced now. Might need some work on something like a Crusader vs. a Crow, but lets see.
Frigates main roles in fleet have always been web/scram/jam from what I've seen. That doesn't change.
I'm a little surprised that Frigs can only fire lights, and cruisers only heavies now. That was unexpected, but I'm gunna wait and see on this one. Thermal only bonus I agree seems a little pointless. Apply a dmg bonus to all types, if anything.
At the very least its gunna be a lot of fun working out new fittings and testing them 
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Ole F
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Posted - 2004.05.11 10:49:00 -
[243]
i don't get this whining about the raven....
first of all compared to the guns used by most other lvl2 battleships, a siege launcher is relativly cheap to fit in terms of powergrid usage...
as for the cpu, the raven has the most cpu of all lvl2 bs, it also has the biggest shield of all lvl2 bs..
fitting 6 siege will use 6k of power and 480 cpu, leaving quite a bit for other stuff... and all this is with no skill bonuses or booster modules at all...
It might be that there's something i don't get here since i've never flown the raven... but to me these numbers dont look too shabby...
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Fager
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Posted - 2004.05.11 10:52:00 -
[244]
Ok, read to page 3 now, and i really dont see an end to all these whiners soo i will just stop reding.
First things first; TomB, you are the MAN! These are one of the greatest ideas youve had!
Reason, now there wont be 1 or 2 frigates everyone should use (kessie, rifter), and if you also put in the turret changes and missie changes that makes frigates almost invulnerable this gets even better, then in a fleet combat an frigate can go in to a group of bs and just damp, web, warp and such... now that fllet needs backup from their friggs or dare i say it ?! CRUISERS! Im not even experienced and even i can see the point of these changes and it looks SWEET!
Cruiser; cant say anything couse:
"Cruisers being useless now" will be dealt with in another manner, rather than giving them weapons designed to destroy battleships.
BS, Ravens will be tha missies masters as the caldarian ships were meant to be!.. only a raven and scorp can mount those sieges and heavys good, And yes its nerfed but so are the other bs misies capabilities, on another hand we FINALLY get some speed to these missies, Caldaians only!!!
These will, with the other stuff about L turrets not hitting friggs and cruiser missies (and siege + heavy launchers) wont hit friggs good either if ccp gets what they want, get mixxed fleet couse an frigg can damp and EW the BS unless they have some cruisers or own friggs to back them up...
I cant find a singe negatively part in these changes, and i wil say it again... TRUST ccp some more, there doing things lke this thats just roxx...
/me runs to pay another 6 month!!!
Fager out...
"I can predict the movement of the stars but not the madness of men"
Xel'Naga Forums (ingame to register):http://www.spiderweb.se/xnc |
Ole F
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Posted - 2004.05.11 10:53:00 -
[245]
i don't get this whining about the raven....
first of all compared to the guns used by most other lvl2 battleships, a siege launcher is relativly cheap to fit in terms of powergrid usage...
as for the cpu, the raven has the most cpu of all lvl2 bs, it also has the biggest shield of all lvl2 bs.. so i the need for tanking is less than on other bs..
fitting 6 siege will use 6k of power and 480 cpu, leaving quite a bit for other stuff... and all this is with no skill bonuses or booster modules at all...
It might be that there's something i don't get here since i've never flown the raven... but to me these numbers dont look too shabby...
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mahhy
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Posted - 2004.05.11 10:54:00 -
[246]
Also, can we get one other change to missles? If they impact something other than your target, they don't cause any damage. Using missles in Empire space is exceptionally dangerous to the user, so while your at it, change that too
Too many losers use this tactic to "grief" corp wars *cough*mangold*cough*.
Cheers.
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LeMoose
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Posted - 2004.05.11 10:59:00 -
[247]
great changes.
what will the base damage for heavy missiles be with heavy missiles lvl5?
can't get ingame for the next few weeks to see the stats. just wondering if the big gunships (apoc/mega/tempest) could use heavy missiles effectively along with their massive turret firepower since most of the wont be fitting siege launchers.
as far as the scorpion and the raven goes I think the 10% bonus to missiles velocity is a good change from the hybrid bonus. makes these two battleships more usefull in long range battles.
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Fager
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Posted - 2004.05.11 11:04:00 -
[248]
Edited by:****er on 11/05/2004 12:21:50
double post... sorry
"I can predict the movement of the stars but not the madness of men"
Xel'Naga Forums (ingame to register):http://www.spiderweb.se/xnc |
Hanilein
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Posted - 2004.05.11 11:07:00 -
[249]
The general direction of the changes may be the right one - let's wait and see. But the restriction of some missile types to some launches is crap. A friend of mine uses lasers and he can switch lenses on the fly to adjust range and damage of his weapons.
I'd like to have these option too - okay, take away the cruise missiles from the kessy - but leave it for the cruisers.
btw. - i've heard often this "you need only some kestrels to take down a battleship" - nonsens. The shield recharger of a BS can easily reload the shield and so it would take a very long time to empty his cap. And that gives the pilot the time to warp way, load FOF's or simply log off.
If you want to kill someone for shure you must do it in 60 seconds.
And these new changes will not lead to longer fights, they will lead to wuicker log-offs.
________________________________________________
Balancing doesn't mean to equal every fitting, it means
giving everybody the chance to encounter a fitting.
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Hanilein
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Posted - 2004.05.11 11:08:00 -
[250]
Edited by: Hanilein on 11/05/2004 11:14:58
Somehow the browser didn't show me my post - sorry for that, can anybody delete this?
________________________________________________
Balancing doesn't mean to equal every fitting, it means
giving everybody the chance to encounter a fitting.
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Hanilein
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Posted - 2004.05.11 11:08:00 -
[251]
Edited by: Hanilein on 11/05/2004 11:13:52
Double Post |
Hanilein
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Posted - 2004.05.11 11:09:00 -
[252]
Edited by: Hanilein on 11/05/2004 11:13:35
Double Post
________________________________________________
Balancing doesn't mean to equal every fitting, it means
giving everybody the chance to encounter a fitting.
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Hanilein
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Posted - 2004.05.11 11:10:00 -
[253]
Edited by: Hanilein on 11/05/2004 11:13:19
Double post
________________________________________________
Balancing doesn't mean to equal every fitting, it means
giving everybody the chance to encounter a fitting.
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Nerhtal Al'Thali
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Posted - 2004.05.11 11:13:00 -
[254]
Quote:
Didn't ask to.. I'm fine with the heavy launcher using only heavy missiles and having cruiser requirements. Give us another battleship launcher to fill the gap though, siege launchers are insanly hard to fit and there is no battleship launcher alternative to it, it will be siege or nothing with these changes.
I agree with the above statement - Morkt Drak put something to this effect too and it makes sense if the Battleship equivelant Launcher Class had, well, more then a SINGLE class to choose from?
Make a Assault variant of the Siege Launcher? Or just simply a Half/Siege launcher and call it whatever you like... Give them more choice is the point.
"Game Experience And Dev Opinions May Change With The Time Of Day During Online Play"
Oveur
"First in, last out"
Bridgeburner Motto |
Tadius Rhain
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Posted - 2004.05.11 11:14:00 -
[255]
Under the current system or the proposed one I would like to see smaller missiles have a greater top speed than bigger ones. The premise is bigger ships go slower & it's unfair for a smaller ship to be cleaned up with one big fat missile.
Then you'd adjust flight times so that bigger missiles could out range smaller ones. Something like this:
Rocket velocity 2000m/s, flight time 5s
Light Missile velocity 1500m/s, flight time 20s
Heavy Missile veolcity 1200m/s, flight time 35s
Cruise Missile velocity 1000m/s, flight time 60s
Torpedo 800m/s, flight time 100s
Imho Torps should be used against stationary targets, like anchorables.
Or, what about implementing a missile ecm? If the frigate can't outrun the missile, maybe it can distract it until it runs out of flight time? I'm not talking about having a missile ecm module and being immune, but adding a chance to avoid the occasional missile hit.
____________________________________________
Ideas Lab - Forum Search Feature - Sign me! |
Drazar II
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Posted - 2004.05.11 11:27:00 -
[256]
These changes should make things much more interesting. Thou I'm not sure why people think that a kestrel is useless without heavys or cruise missles? I've killed a few cruisers with only light missles and rockets and thats using assault lanchers. I mean sure it took about 10 mins to take a thorax down plus a few drones. But thats part of the fun trying out new tactics of warfare it's always nice to have a few tricks for your pray. all i can say is Experiment with the light stuff it's not that bad really and with the new changes light gear will only become more deadly on a Kestrel Beside how else do you get rid of that pesky intercepter flying around your gang mate's bs.
Even a little knowledge can become a powerful tool
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.05.11 11:27:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Ole F
i don't get this whining about the raven....
first of all compared to the guns used by most other lvl2 battleships, a siege launcher is relativly cheap to fit in terms of powergrid usage...
as for the cpu, the raven has the most cpu of all lvl2 bs, it also has the biggest shield of all lvl2 bs.. so i the need for tanking is less than on other bs..
fitting 6 siege will use 6k of power and 480 cpu, leaving quite a bit for other stuff... and all this is with no skill bonuses or booster modules at all...
It might be that there's something i don't get here since i've never flown the raven... but to me these numbers dont look too shabby...
I wouldn't mind siege launchers using more grid and less cpu to be honest, I have so much spare powergrid on my Raven its silly, considering that I have to use power diagnostics to shield tank, more grid less cpu on sieges would be welcome.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Tadius Rhain
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Posted - 2004.05.11 11:29:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Kerberus
Simple way to stop Interceptors,
1...Equip large NOS or Energy Neutraliser
2...Drain all their cap away
3...No cap left for MWD
4...Blast em when they slow down
Simple
Neaturalisers will be play balanced. Let me spell it out:
Heavy Energy Neutralizer 1
500 capacitor per 24 seconds.
That is 100%+ of any frigates capacitor, even with skills and modules.
That is 30-80% of a cruiser capacitor, even with skills and modules.
Using this on a frigate makes it completely combat non-effective (no mwd, no guns, no shield boosting or repairs).
I suspect they will change it to a % based system... I've always said that fixed values are dangerous.
____________________________________________
Ideas Lab - Forum Search Feature - Sign me! |
Borzoi
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Posted - 2004.05.11 11:34:00 -
[259]
These changes are sweet, thats all i have to say about it
...
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Sophie Marceau
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Posted - 2004.05.11 11:35:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Keft Lock
Frigate Missle boats are useless after this change.
not really, spam light at a battleship and thell bounce around like crazy because of the bouncing effects that still havnt been fixed
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Lucre
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Posted - 2004.05.11 11:44:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Russo
What is the point of building a missile boat that cant use all the types of missiles? It wouldnt make sense to do it.
By the same logic, a Gallante or Amarr gunboat should be able to fit and use all the types of gun.
Punishers with Tachyons... :-)
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Baer Mearund
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Posted - 2004.05.11 11:47:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Tadius Rhain
Or, what about implementing a missile ecm? If the frigate can't outrun the missile, maybe it can distract it until it runs out of flight time? I'm not talking about having a missile ecm module and being immune, but adding a chance to avoid the occasional missile hit.
I'd imagine the problem with this is you'd need to sacrifice a slot somewhere in order to fit a flare launcher, and that not all missiles will chase after the flare - bigger missiles can fit more sophisticated guidance which can ignore such distractions because they home in using some other kind of sensors.
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Baer Mearund
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Posted - 2004.05.11 11:48:00 -
[263]
Edited by: Baer Mearund on 11/05/2004 11:50:57
Edit: Double post.
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BuRnEr
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Posted - 2004.05.11 11:55:00 -
[264]
i have only read 4 pages so far but i must say that this looks really nice. Ok frig and Cruiser pilots will whine like hell but thoose ship types are not "heavy damage dealers" any way!. It is impossible to make every one happy so dont fear the public TomB .
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Lucre
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Posted - 2004.05.11 12:00:00 -
[265]
Originally by: MachineMk2
2) Torps should have their skills requirements increased and they should be expensive and do horrendous amounts of damage. Right now, they are a waste of time and money. Make these things real cap-ship busters and the province of battleships. I'm talking about a slow (800ish), big (0.8-1.0), massive warhead (1,000hp or higher) type missile that can only be loaded into seige launchers and only on battleships.
Or, perhaps have *****ble launchers that allow such monster torps to be used by frigates but "one shot only and no reloading except in station". The historical analogue should be obvious...
(And maybe by analogue with the Japanese destroyers which did carry reloads, Kestrels or Caracals would be allowed to reload but taking like 10 minutes!).
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Arbenowskee
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Posted - 2004.05.11 12:10:00 -
[266]
Thank u so much for stealing my game time. I've trained missile launcher op. to lvl 5, caldari frigate to lvl 5 and evasive manouvering to lvl 5 for what? So i can use "elite" frigates to tickle the other guy? Very funny.
Can i at least put the wasted skill points somewhere else (gunnery, engineering, BS skill)?
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Gecco
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Posted - 2004.05.11 12:11:00 -
[267]
Edited by: Gecco on 11/05/2004 12:41:09
Edited by: Gecco on 11/05/2004 12:17:42
Edited by: Gecco on 11/05/2004 12:13:37
Sounds good but this will make the gap between battle ship and cruises even larger.. good for us in BS though 
Still the main problem with all types of missiles is they are still stuped.. the allways craches with the roids and i cant figure out why a cruiser missiles cant cruise
Still defenders will have even more problems to hit cruisers if they will have a higher speed.
Why not change the defenders make them more faster.. and a fitted launger for this
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res0nance
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Posted - 2004.05.11 12:12:00 -
[268]
Edited by: res0nance on 11/05/2004 12:18:34
Hell, here I was thinking Caldari were already the best pvp race, and there we go, making them even better.
How about un-nerfing the energy weapons, or didn't you notice that they suck.
_
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res0nance
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Posted - 2004.05.11 12:15:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Arbenowskee
Thank u so much for stealing my game time. I've trained missile launcher op. to lvl 5, caldari frigate to lvl 5 and evasive manouvering to lvl 5 for what? So i can use "elite" frigates to tickle the other guy? Very funny.
Can i at least put the wasted skill points somewhere else (gunnery, engineering, BS skill)?
Damn right, what is the point in 'elite' frigates now ? **** I suppose we could jam them and hope they die of old age . .
_
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Xendie
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Posted - 2004.05.11 12:16:00 -
[270]
i love using frigs for combat but with these changes it wont be much fun using one at all.
if someone now comes in a frig ill hop in a cruiser and if they come in cruiser one would only have to hop into the battleship and poof.
it takes away alot of the diversity in combat.
i can understand taking away cruises on frigs but to take away heavy missiles so they cant do basically **** against a cruiser thats just stupid.
and to not even let the cruisers use cruise missiles even if it only would be like the kestrel had it "1 per launcher then reload" is also not good.
i think that 3 frigs should be able to take down a cruiser and that 3 cruisers should be able to take down a BS.
i see these changes coming from the incessant whining of ppl in BS who lost their ill equipped BS to frigs or cruisers just because they didnt have either the skill to use them or plainly just fitted BS vs BS weapons on them and was then unable to hit the smaller and faster ships.
just because someone has a big ship doesnt mean that only big ships should be able to take it out.
you can fit a few smaller guns on it to take care of the smaller ships if your 1400mm cant track it.
no one is forcing you to use only BS weapons only on a BS.
im sad that CCP is displaying this kind of nerfing by listening to whiners who cant equip their ships right or use the right tactics in combat.
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