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Is Ireland writing history this very second?

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Isiskhan Gnostic Misanthropy	Posted - 2008.06.14 16:51:00 - [91] Originally by: Patch86 I would have voted "yes" if anyone had let me. Unfortunately, democracy isn't in particularly full force on this issue... The reason why there was a referendum in Ireland is because their own constitution required them to. In the rest of the European countries, the Treaty of Lisbon has been / is going to be ratified by parliamentary vote: that is, voted by the same MPs you in turn voted into office, just like they vote for any other law / motion approved or rejected in your country. Concretely in the UK, the Treaty of Lisbon has been ratified in the House of Commons by 346 votes for it, 206 votes against it, and 81 abstentions on March 11th. It will be subjected to vote in the House of Lords on June 18th. The Treaty of Lisbon is not like the European Constitution that was rejected by referendum in France and the Netherlands, it has far less reaching implications and it is meant to amend and streamline current European treaties and institutions, not replace them as the failed Constitution did: that's why it is not considered that it requires a popular referendum (with the exception of Ireland, given what is stated on their own constitution).
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.14 17:45:00 - [92] Originally by: Isiskhan Originally by: Patch86 I would have voted "yes" if anyone had let me. Unfortunately, democracy isn't in particularly full force on this issue... The reason why there was a referendum in Ireland is because their own constitution required them to. In the rest of the European countries, the Treaty of Lisbon has been / is going to be ratified by parliamentary vote: that is, voted by the same MPs you in turn voted into office, just like they vote for any other law / motion approved or rejected in your country. Concretely in the UK, the Treaty of Lisbon has been ratified in the House of Commons by 346 votes for it, 206 votes against it, and 81 abstentions on March 11th. It will be subjected to vote in the House of Lords on June 18th. The Treaty of Lisbon is not like the European Constitution that was rejected by referendum in France and the Netherlands, it has far less reaching implications and it is meant to amend and streamline current European treaties and institutions, not replace them as the failed Constitution did: that's why it is not considered that it requires a popular referendum (with the exception of Ireland, given what is stated on their own constitution). Yah, so I realise and agree. What I meant is that it isn't particularly nice that something can be shot down by some 1 million people, when it affects several hundred million. My country (and the rest) has already approved of it, but a referendum of an extreme minority can scupper it dead. ------ Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.
Mtthias Clemi The Space Bastards	Posted - 2008.06.14 17:49:00 - [93] Originally by: Patch86 Originally by: Isiskhan Originally by: Patch86 I would have voted "yes" if anyone had let me. Unfortunately, democracy isn't in particularly full force on this issue... The reason why there was a referendum in Ireland is because their own constitution required them to. In the rest of the European countries, the Treaty of Lisbon has been / is going to be ratified by parliamentary vote: that is, voted by the same MPs you in turn voted into office, just like they vote for any other law / motion approved or rejected in your country. Concretely in the UK, the Treaty of Lisbon has been ratified in the House of Commons by 346 votes for it, 206 votes against it, and 81 abstentions on March 11th. It will be subjected to vote in the House of Lords on June 18th. The Treaty of Lisbon is not like the European Constitution that was rejected by referendum in France and the Netherlands, it has far less reaching implications and it is meant to amend and streamline current European treaties and institutions, not replace them as the failed Constitution did: that's why it is not considered that it requires a popular referendum (with the exception of Ireland, given what is stated on their own constitution). Yah, so I realise and agree. What I meant is that it isn't particularly nice that something can be shot down by some 1 million people, when it affects several hundred million. My country (and the rest) has already approved of it, but a referendum of an extreme minority can scupper it dead. Exactly how i feel, anyway they say they have a plan B Dont they have a minimum of number of NO countries required to stop it going through? One country stopping the entire union seems extreme to me.
Isiskhan Gnostic Misanthropy	Posted - 2008.06.14 19:20:00 - [94] Originally by: Patch86 Yah, so I realise and agree. What I meant is that it isn't particularly nice that something can be shot down by some 1 million people, when it affects several hundred million. My country (and the rest) has already approved of it, but a referendum of an extreme minority can scupper it dead. Ah, yes, I misunderstood your point. One of the local newspapers' headline today put it quite eloquently: "862.415 Irish block almost 500 million Europeans"... which gets even more ridiculous when you consider that according to polls 80% of the Irish admitted they didn't really know much about the Lisbon treaty they were voting for / against. On the other hand, the Sinn Fein and other hardcore nationalists had a field day with their fear-mongering campaigns of "Don't let them bully you!" and such b*llocks.
Seabhac BudifulBC	Posted - 2008.06.14 20:50:00 - [95] Edited by: Seabhac on 14/06/2008 20:51:01 Blame the inept irish government for this not the people, they did a **** poor job of explaing what the treaty was about, and having the taoiseach(PM) say he hadn't even read the entire treaty but vote yes anyway was never going to inspire people to go out and vote yes. It came down to keeping things as you know and understand them(No) or do as your told(YES). I remember some months ago hearing various european polititions stating that if we voted no then the treaty was dead and that would be it, now however everyone is acting as if this doesn't matter a damn. Sorry you didn't vote the way we wanted you to vote so bugger off......... I wish my lawn was emo, so it would cut itself.
Isiskhan Gnostic Misanthropy	Posted - 2008.06.14 21:03:00 - [96] Edited by: Isiskhan on 14/06/2008 21:05:05 I was just reading in the newspaper an interview with Naoise Nunn, the executive director of Libertas, the main platform in Ireland campaigning for the "No". Libertas was born two years ago as a think-tank that has united groups of quite a diverse ideology: from the Sinn Fein, to fundamentalist Catholic groups to Marxist associations. Nunn is quite upset that despite their victory on the referendum, France's Sarkozy and other European leaders (with the sole exception of the self-described euro-esceptic Chec president) are urging the remaining European countries to continue with the ratification process. When asked what was essentially Liberta's gist for their "No" position, Nunn claimed that they are not anti-European, but rather they are concerned about the democratic deficit the Lisbon treaty would imply. And what exactly is this "democratic deficit"? Nunn responds they are alarmed that the treaty's proposed changes include taking decisions using a majority system based on population size. "The voice of Ireland would end up being reduced". Indeed... because on the other hand it is far more democratic to have the minority impose their will on the majority.
Seabhac BudifulBC	Posted - 2008.06.14 21:45:00 - [97] How is taking something that was rejected by two large nations(France and the Netherlands) rebranding it so that they wont be able to chuck it out a seccond time and *****ing when its thrown out by a "small" country democratic? I wish my lawn was emo, so it would cut itself.
Isiskhan Gnostic Misanthropy	Posted - 2008.06.14 21:50:00 - [98] Originally by: Seabhac How is taking something that was rejected by two large nations(France and the Netherlands) rebranding it so that they wont be able to chuck it out a seccond time and *****ing when its thrown out by a "small" country democratic? The European Constitution != the Lisbon Treaty. Do yourself a favour and read more about them both before posting such nonsense.
Sirikar Nakasoroki	Posted - 2008.06.15 07:43:00 - [99] to see how europe votes under the lisbon treaty, see eurovision.
Glarion Garnier Solar Wind Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.06.15 10:21:00 - [100] THIS End of nations - the documentary by Irish might give you some clues. _________________________________ -be vary of the men behind the curtain-
Glarion Garnier Solar Wind Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.06.15 10:31:00 - [101] All I can say is. They Will have the new world order what ever it takes. The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. J Edgar Hoover. ... _________________________________ -be vary of the men behind the curtain-
Glarion Garnier Solar Wind Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.06.15 10:46:00 - [102] Originally by: Mtthias Clemi I just had this discussion with my family! I dont understand why people think a 1 world government is a bad thing... Im all for a unified Europe, European president! The EU as an entity is the largest and richest economy in the world! Surely that tells you its a good thing.. if nothing else will.. Conspiracy theorists need to be ignored, and its a good job they are as far as im concerned.. Just a few points because im tired and this thread will get locked eventually and be pointless anyway. Once we are a unified planet we can look to solving the problems that have plagued us since society began, and those which we ourselves have created, rather than dealing with petty nationalistic ideals which hinder our development. Yeah. but the promise of solving problems .. like using Gene manipulated foods to solve the food crisis is pure bull****. Monsanto has 90% of worlds gene modified patents. But none of their patents is to improve the nutrional value of the food. Instead they are just to improve the foods hardness towards their own pesticide called Roundup. (wich was shown to cause pre state towards CANCER). (sources (documentaries): The World According To Monsanto, Future of Food, Patent For pig) One world gowerment might be good idea. BUT NOT WITH THE PPL HEADING TO THE HELM RIGHT NOW. _________________________________ -be vary of the men behind the curtain-
Kyanzes Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.06.15 11:36:00 - [103] Edited by: Kyanzes on 15/06/2008 11:37:04 Originally by: LaVista Vista Is Ireland writing history this very second? Yes, and unfortunately everyone else's history in Europe. If they want no part in this then they should as well leave the Union. Why stay if they have a different agenda? --------------------------------------------- GET TO THE CHOPPA!!! The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
4rc4ng3L C R Y O	Posted - 2008.06.15 11:44:00 - [104] Originally by: Kyanzes Edited by: Kyanzes on 15/06/2008 11:37:04 Originally by: LaVista Vista Is Ireland writing history this very second? Yes, and unfortunately everyone else's history in Europe. If they want no part in this then they should as well leave the Union. Why stay if they have a different agenda? We dont have a dam different agenda.... a vote of NO for lisbon treaty was in no way a vote NO for europe. Do some research before letting your bulls**t opinion loose! ------------------------------------------ - To Jumanji, or not to Jumanji...... -
Kyanzes Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.06.15 12:39:00 - [105] Originally by: 4rc4ng3L Originally by: Kyanzes Edited by: Kyanzes on 15/06/2008 11:37:04 Originally by: LaVista Vista Is Ireland writing history this very second? Yes, and unfortunately everyone else's history in Europe. If they want no part in this then they should as well leave the Union. Why stay if they have a different agenda? We dont have a dam different agenda.... a vote of NO for lisbon treaty was in no way a vote NO for europe. Do some research before letting your bulls**t opinion loose! I've already done that. Ireland is in the way of the EU's progression. Nationalism FTL. You can't even deny it, I've heard interviews and some people said they were afraid for Ireland's freedom, they're afraid it would have been short lived should the majority of the votes turned out to be yes. They think only of themselves. Well, think outside of the EU then. --------------------------------------------- GET TO THE CHOPPA!!! The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
4rc4ng3L C R Y O	Posted - 2008.06.15 13:10:00 - [106] Originally by: Kyanzes Originally by: 4rc4ng3L Originally by: Kyanzes Edited by: Kyanzes on 15/06/2008 11:37:04 Originally by: LaVista Vista Is Ireland writing history this very second? Yes, and unfortunately everyone else's history in Europe. If they want no part in this then they should as well leave the Union. Why stay if they have a different agenda? We dont have a dam different agenda.... a vote of NO for lisbon treaty was in no way a vote NO for europe. Do some research before letting your bulls**t opinion loose! I've already done that. Ireland is in the way of the EU's progression. Nationalism FTL. You can't even deny it, I've heard interviews and some people said they were afraid for Ireland's freedom, they're afraid it would have been short lived should the majority of the votes turned out to be yes. They think only of themselves. Well, think outside of the EU then. The vast majority of the Irish voted no due to the governments complete and utter failure to sell the YES vote to the population. The Irish were then left with one of two things. Vote YES and go along with the word of the government which gave no other reason to vote yes other than 'Trust us we know what we're doing' Or vote NO and have things remain the same. Given that our situation is rather good at present and the EU is growing strong why would we then go along with the YES vote if we didnt see any necessary reason to do so. Voting NO was a vote to have things remain the same, to continue with the current ways which have proven quite successful, from OUR point of view. But for anyone to suggest the 'Irish People' are holding Europe back is pure idiocy and ignorance. If you believe we should have voted YES, then throw your blame at the ridiculous Government we so clearly have, whos main job should have been to blatantly sell the YES vote to the population. ------------------------------------------ - To Jumanji, or not to Jumanji...... -
Lilan Kahn The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2008.06.15 14:03:00 - [107] any who thinks irland voteing no isnt meaning **** dosnt have a clue. this abut all the contrys in the eu being equal. how is it fair that say france or the uk can bully smaller contrys in to geting it there way? is that contrys being equal? "Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time"
ReaperOfSly Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.15 14:12:00 - [108] Originally by: Lilan Kahn any who thinks irland voteing no isnt meaning ** dosnt have a clue. this abut all the contrys in the eu being equal. how is it fair that say france or the uk can bully smaller contrys in to geting it there way? is that contrys being equal? Well, they have larger populations so yes. It is fair. __________________________ Quote:** ...bored, skint, no charter, and a ship that looks like an explosion in a girder factory...
Lilan Kahn The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2008.06.15 14:25:00 - [109] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Originally by: Lilan Kahn any who thinks irland voteing no isnt meaning **** dosnt have a clue. this abut all the contrys in the eu being equal. how is it fair that say france or the uk can bully smaller contrys in to geting it there way? is that contrys being equal? Well, they have larger populations so yes. It is fair. so germany is okay to dictate the uk on how to behave based on population? peopel forget this is a uninon of contrys, its based on equal rights for the contrys. its a democracy in the sense all the contrys atm are equal instead of after the treaty where some are more equal than others "Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time"
ReaperOfSly Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.15 14:35:00 - [110] Originally by: Lilan Kahn Originally by: ReaperOfSly Originally by: Lilan Kahn any who thinks irland voteing no isnt meaning **** dosnt have a clue. this abut all the contrys in the eu being equal. how is it fair that say france or the uk can bully smaller contrys in to geting it there way? is that contrys being equal? Well, they have larger populations so yes. It is fair. so germany is okay to dictate the uk on how to behave based on population? peopel forget this is a uninon of contrys, its based on equal rights for the contrys. its a democracy in the sense all the contrys atm are equal instead of after the treaty where some are more equal than others My point is, to make it completely fair, you should have a system where every single individual gets one vote each. Not every country getting one vote each. Countries which represent a small percentage of the EUs population should have proportionally small influence. __________________________ Quote: ...bored, skint, no charter, and a ship that looks like an explosion in a girder factory...
nahtoh Bull Industries	Posted - 2008.06.15 14:50:00 - [111] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Originally by: Lilan Kahn Originally by: ReaperOfSly Originally by: Lilan Kahn any who thinks irland voteing no isnt meaning **** dosnt have a clue. this abut all the contrys in the eu being equal. how is it fair that say france or the uk can bully smaller contrys in to geting it there way? is that contrys being equal? Well, they have larger populations so yes. It is fair. so germany is okay to dictate the uk on how to behave based on population? peopel forget this is a uninon of contrys, its based on equal rights for the contrys. its a democracy in the sense all the contrys atm are equal instead of after the treaty where some are more equal than others My point is, to make it completely fair, you should have a system where every single individual gets one vote each. Not every country getting one vote each. Countries which represent a small percentage of the EUs population should have proportionally small influence. Or more simply its the only country that actually could not just run roughshod over the population. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Kyanzes Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.	Posted - 2008.06.15 15:05:00 - [112] Originally by: nahtoh Originally by: ReaperOfSly Originally by: Lilan Kahn Originally by: ReaperOfSly Originally by: Lilan Kahn any who thinks irland voteing no isnt meaning **** dosnt have a clue. this abut all the contrys in the eu being equal. how is it fair that say france or the uk can bully smaller contrys in to geting it there way? is that contrys being equal? Well, they have larger populations so yes. It is fair. so germany is okay to dictate the uk on how to behave based on population? peopel forget this is a uninon of contrys, its based on equal rights for the contrys. its a democracy in the sense all the contrys atm are equal instead of after the treaty where some are more equal than others My point is, to make it completely fair, you should have a system where every single individual gets one vote each. Not every country getting one vote each. Countries which represent a small percentage of the EUs population should have proportionally small influence. Or more simply its the only country that actually could not just run roughshod over the population. If people don't trust their government then they should replace them. It's not necessary for them to knock the EU over in the process of punishing their leaders. Let's suck together because the Irish decided to show the finger to their politicians. It seems it doesn't matter who's in charge, it doesn't matter that they got into power through democratic elections, a government can only be evil and simply MUST BE part of some sort of an evil plan to enslave the people administrated by them. Go and elect someone else into office instead of making everyone else suffer of your defiance. --------------------------------------------- GET TO THE CHOPPA!!! The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Wilko1776 An Eye For An Eye Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.06.15 15:06:00 - [113] meh...europe is over, why don't you all vote to become part of america, we do everything bigger and better than you guys so it makes sense..
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.06.15 15:28:00 - [114] Originally by: Wilko1776 meh...America is over, why don't you all vote to become part of Europe, we do everything more efficiently and better than you guys so it makes sense.. Fixed. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Wilko1776 An Eye For An Eye Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.06.15 15:30:00 - [115] you wouldn't have democracy, freedom, cars, electricity etc etc etc etc without us, plus red alliance would be in charge of you.
Kirjava Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.06.15 15:33:00 - [116] Edited by: Kirjava on 15/06/2008 15:33:15 Originally by: Wilko1776 you wouldn't have democracy, freedom, cars, electricity etc etc etc etc without us, plus red alliance would be in charge of you. Obvious Troll is Obvious Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Wilko1776 An Eye For An Eye Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.06.15 15:35:00 - [117] i knew it when i clicked reply
Wilko1776 An Eye For An Eye Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.06.15 15:41:00 - [118] yeah, don't they teach you anything in european schools?
Sothis Antares PBA Corporation	Posted - 2008.06.15 15:43:00 - [119] you're the worst troll i ever saw _________________________________________________ devblogs are boring. so is mine :P
Wilko1776 An Eye For An Eye Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.06.15 15:44:00 - [120] proof or stfu

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