Originally by: Red Dhalia

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I'm an american who lives in China and plays the regular server here... bout a year now. I have probs with 'portal management' among other things but hey... I usually get in some good play. A lot of Chinese would like to as well. Believe it or not they are not all credit farmers and a lot of decent people in the bunch.

My question is what is the 'real' reason CCP isn't here making the main server more available? Don't give me the nonsense about China kill people/things or anything like that either. I just wasted some dudes in a Chinese game and many won't let you kill anything till you pay. Other 'reasons' i've heard are just as ludicrous. I can think of a few possibly legit reasons but nothing I think can't be overcome. Soooo.... CCP... why is it so hard for my Chinese buds to play with everyone else? The 'real' reason... please?

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Thats wrong too. The net is fast domestically here in most places and the only restriction involved is a language filter prohibiting some terms and words that is and can be applied to any game or area a game is played in. Done all the time. Politics n religion are not an issue either. They have politicin n religion in a lot of games that have past, present, and future settings. The only thing that you get is banned for using the net as a forum for anti government activities. Then ur just banned... thats it... no real effect beyond an eula violation.

One part of that which may have a touch of reality is the 'management' of traffic and ports to favor domestic commercial internet enterprises... one of the 'possibly legit' issues I referred to.

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Originally by: Amastat

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For those who don't know, Serenity is the beta server for EVE that is in China. Well - as far as i know they are running the same version that TQ is running off of, they just cal it BETA because it's BETA over in China.

My question, for anyone who would know - merge the TQ and Serenity servers? Or just have them stay in their own server?

They've been around for going on.. 2 years now I think, and they still have several thousand players on at a time - but that's those who were accepted into the BETA, and it sounds like it has been successful and is really catching on over there.

So - yea; they are restricted to just what players they have, CCP isn't letting anymore on that server, since it's a BETA. But when it's time for them to go live, are they going to hook up to TQ or no? Very Happy

I would presume if they did hook up to TQ, CCP would have a dedicated line go between the TQ and Serenity so there is maximum efficiency with data transfer, or they'd just transfer all the data to TQ. Or is something else in CCP's mind?

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Originally by: CCP Whisper

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Hi. Serenity was always planned to be a separate server. To run an MMO in China requires an operator's license and also requires the servers to be located in China. We do not offer an English language client for Serenity, but if you speak Chinese there is no reason you can't go to the official site and download a trial from there to see what it's like.

The degree of content changes we had to make were minimal. EVE feels and plays just the same way on Serenity as it does on Tranquility, albeit with less players and with a Chinese UI. We're seeing slow but steady growth in player numbers now as EVE's gameplay style finds greater appeal amongst the Chinese gamers. And no, most of the players are not isk farmers. Rolling Eyes

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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One more quick comment... someone posted while I was replying. My question has nothing to do w/the two servers colliding. I'm asking why its' so hard for Chinese to play on tranquility like I do. Many want to. The biggest issue... which may have had legit reasons in the past... seems to be a lack of a mechanism to pay CCP every month. Any Chinese can dl EVE and play on tranquility if the ports weren't restricted and he had a way to pay. There seems to be no objection from the gov to them playing there. I've been playin bout a year n pay w/my cc. No one ever asked me if I were Chinese, censored me, or even... as far as I know... noticed me playing except friends n such. So again.... Why Not?

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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I'm an american

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Originally by: Jolliejoe

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The reason is simple... The server as it is now can not handle more than 30,000 consistent users on-line without extreme performance problems occuring. You imagine what would happen if 200,000 china men would also enter the server!!

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Not tryin to be rude here but m amazed at the misconceptions most westerners have about China... They never 'banned' horror movies here. Yes ... they officially said it was not in 'good taste'....

Those are my sister n laws favs for 20 yrs and in the five yrs i've been a resident here have never heard of a prob downloadin any film except ****... which they will lock u up for publicly disseminating....hehe

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Originally by: Sgt Blade

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Ive got friends and family who play eve in Mainland China and it would just be alot better if they were able to more easily all come onto the main server.

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Originally by: Sgt Blade

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Originally by: Morgan Lorus

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Its cuz the chinese laws reduces internet usage. Nothing to do with CCP, its chinas gov. you need to ask.

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since when? i know family and friends and even me when i got over to mainland china , we can use the internet as much as we want with no restrictions and for as long as we want. last time i was over there me and my cousin+his friends played CSS for a good 6 hours+.

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Rock on Blade. When u come bak visit Zhuhai n i'll take ya out to beer n bbq. Fact is if anyone wants to jump into the Chinese language server on Tranquility they will likely find english speaking Chinese from 'behind the wall' playin. They can already play... its just tuff as hell for the average guy w/no foreign cc n such.

P.S. Stay w/mandarin n english... my cantonese sux big time...

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Dunno who told ya that or why Amastat... but its bs. If he is gonna get arrested it won't be for downloadin a game. As a matter of fact its much harder to get arrested here than the states or europe and a lot fewer cops per capita or folks in jail...hehe. As long as ur not actively seditious against the gov or hurtin folks its pretty hard to get into serious trouble here.

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Dunno who told ya that or why Amastat... but its bs. If he is gonna get arrested it won't be for downloadin a game. As a matter of fact its much harder to get arrested here than the states or europe and a lot fewer cops per capita or folks in jail...hehe. As long as ur not actively seditious against the gov or hurtin folks its pretty hard to get into serious trouble here.

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Those are my sister n laws favs for 20 yrs and in the five yrs i've been a resident here have never heard of a prob downloadin any film except ****... which they will lock u up for publicly disseminating....hehe

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Originally by: Sgt Blade

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Originally by: Morgan Lorus

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Its cuz the chinese laws reduces internet usage. Nothing to do with CCP, its chinas gov. you need to ask.

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since when? i know family and friends and even me when i got over to mainland china , we can use the internet as much as we want with no restrictions and for as long as we want. last time i was over there me and my cousin+his friends played CSS for a good 6 hours+.

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Dunno who told ya that or why Amastat... but its bs. If he is gonna get arrested it won't be for downloadin a game. As a matter of fact its much harder to get arrested here than the states or europe and a lot fewer cops per capita or folks in jail...hehe. As long as ur not actively seditious against the gov or hurtin folks its pretty hard to get into serious trouble here.

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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If I said you'd get arrested for a dl I definitely had at least a bad syntax moment...hehe. But you did say some guy said he'd get arrested for a dl here unless i'm just misreading you. All the misunderstanding aside i'll jus say that a dl is no biggie here n I do appreciate your comments.

Come see me if ur ever here.... u'll love Chinese beer n bbq... best in the world n my fav.

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Originally by: Brunn

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Edited by: Brunn on 13/06/2008 12:39:40
Edited by: Brunn on 13/06/2008 12:38:53
its really because of sheer numbers and languange barrier.

i've seen it in other games, chinese because of language barrier tend to for chinese speaking only guild and because they outnumber the rest of the world, they tend to dominate.
result the rest of the world gets tired and abbandon game, it happened in lots of games...

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Bet u'd like it here guy. Place is great in many ways. Their idea of 'old' makes westerners look like puppies...hehe. For Instance... I like climbing but I can't find a friggin hill or mountain that hasn't had steps carved to the top for one or two thousand years...lol. They just look at me like m nuts n wonder why n the hell I want to climb somethin they stroll to the top for a picnic for.

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Ur tuff luck to run into someone who didn't like you as much as u didn't like them. Plenty o westerners just as rude n I never said they aren't people... bad apples n all... but a lot of them are great. Jus sour grapes at gettin ur butt kicked... the russians and others get their own guilds too... so what? Lotta them r good guys too... but u prolly think they are all mafia sex slave traders.

Live n learn... if ya can.

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Read the thread dude... they already play there. Thats not the issue.

Also Amaistat... I read bak... they r filtering the nasty movie word.... I was only talkin about a dl of that specific kind of movie

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Live n learn... if ya can.

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Originally by: Brunn

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Live n learn... if ya can.

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I lived n I learned, thats why im happy that serenity exits, i'd hate to see eve follow the path one of my former favorite MMO went...

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Originally by: Drizit

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Red, you seem to be moaning about something that many of us here would like to see done. SHARDING.

You have a server dedicated to a single country and have very little lag by comparison to TQ. We have to play on one that serves the entire rest of the world and put up with the lag caused by so many players restricted to a single server.

The jealousy that this move invoked was obvious in the forum posts around the time that Serenity was set up. Even those who say they are opposed to sharding went into jealous rages over this move.

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Bet u'd like it here guy. Place is great in many ways. Their idea of 'old' makes westerners look like puppies...hehe. For Instance... I like climbing but I can't find a friggin hill or mountain that hasn't had steps carved to the top for one or two thousand years...lol. They just look at me like m nuts n wonder why n the hell I want to climb somethin they stroll to the top for a picnic for.

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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They not only like it the way it is for the most part... they made it that way. Chinese have a 'tea circle' mentality. They don't make much law except for foreigners. They make 'policy'. Then the next power group down makes a more local policy right down to the head of household and even the police respect it. Yes... i can make law in my own house as long as it jives w/policy. They don't vote every four yrs... they have a say every day. Call m communist if ya like but they name govs for convenience and they haven't truly changed the culture or how the country is basically run in thousands of yrs. Go figger.... they like it and aren't hot on changin.

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Originally by: Amastat

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If china is such a humanitarian issue as western society emphasizes it, we should of invaded China to "save" the populous, like we did in Iraq - a long time ago.

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Quote:

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China has a large enough armed forces to invade most of Asia if they wanted to. If they were such a bad ebil country, they would be asserting that force right now.

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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I'm an american who lives in China and plays the regular server here... bout a year now. I have probs with 'portal management' among other things but hey... I usually get in some good play. A lot of Chinese would like to as well. Believe it or not they are not all credit farmers and a lot of decent people in the bunch.

My question is what is the 'real' reason CCP isn't here making the main server more available? Don't give me the nonsense about China kill people/things or anything like that either. I just wasted some dudes in a Chinese game and many won't let you kill anything till you pay. Other 'reasons' i've heard are just as ludicrous. I can think of a few possibly legit reasons but nothing I think can't be overcome. Soooo.... CCP... why is it so hard for my Chinese buds to play with everyone else? The 'real' reason... please?

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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They not only like it the way it is for the most part... they made it that way. Chinese have a 'tea circle' mentality. They don't make much law except for foreigners. They make 'policy'. Then the next power group down makes a more local policy right down to the head of household and even the police respect it. Yes... i can make law in my own house as long as it jives w/policy. They don't vote every four yrs... they have a say every day. Call m communist if ya like but they name govs for convenience and they haven't truly changed the culture or how the country is basically run in thousands of yrs. Go figger.... they like it and aren't hot on changin.

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Originally by: Esmenet

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Originally by: Amastat

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If china is such a humanitarian issue as western society emphasizes it, we should of invaded China to "save" the populous, like we did in Iraq - a long time ago.

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The chinese military is a lot stronger than the Iraqi military. It would take a lot more to start a war that could take many years against a nation that can strike back even at US soil. Thats also why the US is less involved in other conflicts in the region around china as they dont want to **** off China.

Quote:

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China has a large enough armed forces to invade most of Asia if they wanted to. If they were such a bad ebil country, they would be asserting that force right now.

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China isnt mad either. If they start invading most of asia they will **** off nations that can strike back too. Its similar to the cold war. Small nations without nukes or protection from large powerblocks are "fair game". But noone really wants to start a war on the kind of scale you would get if you attack one of the major powers in the world today.

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Actually the diff isn't so much in how long people have been around in a given place as you say. The big diff is the consistant, ongoing, and unbroken culture. I'm a cultural anthropologist by education and as far as I know the longest surviving unbroken cultures aside from the chinese is just short of a thousand yrs. These 'puppies'...lol... have got at least 4k yrs... prolly more but too much has been lost over time to b able to give the 'legal' stamp for more.... tho I personally believe it goes another k... as most Chinese insist tho admittedly they r biased

I personally find it fascinating to examine the way such an old culture works itself out in living individuals. Sadly its so ingrained that for the most part the average chinese isn't even aware of the legacy... he just acts it out...hehe

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Go figger... n a country w/1.3b folks some decide to break, pillage, burn, n murder... cops show up. At least the feds weren't there to shoot mothers w/babies n their arms. Ask Randy Weaver how that felt... or don't u guys remember ruby ridge? Prolly not. Things happen... they r people... bad things sometimes happen. Truth is tho that I feel safer here than anywhere i've ever been... includin the states... and I travelled 35 yrs for a livin b4 i settled here. Thats not a slam... just an observation from someone who has been around awhile. Hell... I even killed a few o these folks n nam a long time ago... too bad I wasn't older n smarter then.

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Originally by: Amastat

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...in other words, peace.

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Originally by: Brunn

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Originally by: Amastat

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...in other words, peace.

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Peace isnt a word that comes into my mind when i think of china.
AFAIK they are still ocupping a country that is the true symbol of peace...

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Brunn... u should revisit your history... m sure you mean Tibet. Until the Chinese takeover it was ruled by a demagogue in the name of religion who appointed oligarchs with absolute power. People lived out doors, were raped, starved, and beaten with no recourse but death if they protested. The Dali Lama is a political bs artist waving the banner of religion to take over a country he never did anything for or his forrunners didn't do anything for for centuries. If he tried to replace a gov w/a religious dictator anywhere in the west he'd b shot.

Get a grip n quit beleiving everything you hear on discovery channel...

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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There are folks from Tibet all over China goin to school, workin, n raisin families... even around here. No one wants the Dali Lama back but expatriates and a corrupt clergy... Most of them just want m to go away. Its actually pretty decent of the gov to negotiate w/m considerin most Tibetans don't want m too. Funny thing... the Chinese try to mend fences w/out war w/anyone Chinese... and they consider Chinese Tibetans... including the Tibetan Chinese negotiators from the gov.

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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U don't get it do you... there was never a country n the modern sense espeacially... it was a region controlled by a despot, appointing dictator oligarchs, allowing raiders to operate from it, and had been an off n on part of unified China for almost 2k yrs. By your logic we should have never freed slaves or signed the declaration of independence.

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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ya... most Chinese who play use game cards and you can get people to get m for ya. The prob is they aren't available here and cc use is not common and u can't use a domestic cc outside China anyway.

What i'm wondering is why they can't be available here. As to localised content that only goes so far n many chinese love international flavor, high quality, n so on as much as any in the world. I can understand that some infrastructure banking n security probs might make a Chinese cc hard to handle but thats not the only way. So many already pay n often get scalped for the privelege. Whats the issue? Even somthin like an octopus card... used widely around here... would work. Octopus is like a prepaid card for buses, meals, or whatever from any biz that honors m btw.

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Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane

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You can't start a topic, spout some Chinese propaganda, and when no one agrees with your view simply tell them to go away. That maybe possible in China, but not not here.

You wanted to know why it was so hard for Chinese players to get on the western server? Well, we told you: Because the communist Chinese government doesn't want them exposed to unfettered access to western ideas and ideals.

Don't blame us that the world doesn't conform to what you want it to be. We don't make policy in China.

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Originally by: Dmian

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And one has not necessarily yell "free Tibet!" every time someone says the word "China"...

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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I'm an american who lives in China and plays the regular server here... bout a year now. I have probs with 'portal management' among other things but hey... I usually get in some good play. A lot of Chinese would like to as well. Believe it or not they are not all credit farmers and a lot of decent people in the bunch.

My question is what is the 'real' reason CCP isn't here making the main server more available? Don't give me the nonsense about China kill people/things or anything like that either. I just wasted some dudes in a Chinese game and many won't let you kill anything till you pay. Other 'reasons' i've heard are just as ludicrous. I can think of a few possibly legit reasons but nothing I think can't be overcome. Soooo.... CCP... why is it so hard for my Chinese buds to play with everyone else? The 'real' reason... please?

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Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane

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You wanted to know why it was so hard for Chinese players to get on the western server? Well, we told you: Because the communist Chinese government doesn't want them exposed to unfettered access to western ideas and ideals.

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Actually guy... tho these guys will prolly jus say i'm a lying, commie, pinko,**** (worked good for McCarthy) i've had fewer personal restrictions in my yrs here than europe or the americas and more opportunity n less restriction n biz. One reason I stay actually... along w/the fact that m dirt tired of people who think anyone they don't understand is evil n too dam lazy or uncaring to try n understand.... something i've noticed increasing constantly in the west for the last half century i've been able to pay attention. Grant you... its diff here... but very rarely what loud mouthed westerners make it out to be when on their rants and uninterested n other views. Seems freedom is only limited to them and reasonable discourse unacceptable unless their butts r gettin kissed. But thats life... they will enter a 50 yr well of forgotten idiots by the time I wake up in the morning regardless of how depressing they are this evening.

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Originally by: Hardin

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So cut the guy some slack please.

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Originally by: prsr

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Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane

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You wanted to know why it was so hard for Chinese players to get on the western server? Well, we told you: Because the communist Chinese government doesn't want them exposed to unfettered access to western ideas and ideals.

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Care to provide evidence for this assertion?

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Originally by: Hardin

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Paragraphs are your friend

That aside I kind of agree.

Spent 10 days in Hong Kong and Shanghai last year (even saw some random dude wearing a Concord T-shirt ) and found the experience very pleasant all round. Certainly didn't notice any obvious censorship or signs of repression.

Shanghai was an amazingly interesting city - filled with intelligent people who were friendly, helpful and chatty (the ones who could speak English).

I feel more 'controlled' living in CCTV/Chav dominated London than I did in Shanghai!

So cut the guy some slack please.

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Originally by: Hardin

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Certainly didn't notice any obvious censorship or signs of repression.

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Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane

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Originally by: Hardin

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Paragraphs are your friend

That aside I kind of agree.

Spent 10 days in Hong Kong and Shanghai last year (even saw some random dude wearing a Concord T-shirt ) and found the experience very pleasant all round. Certainly didn't notice any obvious censorship or signs of repression.

Shanghai was an amazingly interesting city - filled with intelligent people who were friendly, helpful and chatty (the ones who could speak English).

I feel more 'controlled' living in CCTV/Chav dominated London than I did in Shanghai!

So cut the guy some slack please.

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There is a difference as well.

There isn't a Great Firewall of the UK, people weren't run down in numbers in Trafalgar Square by tanks, and I there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that I get sent to the Gullag for calling Gordon Brown a tosser.
I'm not saying the UK or any other country is perfect, such a Utopia doesn't exist, but you don't hear me blathering nationalistic nonsense either, besides, I have this thing about freedom of expression, I think rather highly of it you see.

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Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte

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Originally by: Hardin

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Certainly didn't notice any obvious censorship or signs of repression.

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well .. censorship and repression work best when no one notices it.

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Originally by: Athanasios Anastasiou

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Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte

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Originally by: Hardin

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Certainly didn't notice any obvious censorship or signs of repression.

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well .. censorship and repression work best when no one notices it.

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Kinda like what's happening in the US atm?

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Originally by: Drizit

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The difference is that in Asia, they do it to feed their family but in the West, it's purely greed since Social Security will feed their family.

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Quote:

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I've also had the same here in the UK. I have been held on "suspicion" because I had the audacity to go for a walk down the town at 2am to get some cigarettes. Not once, but 5 times in two weeks and they can hold you for up to 24 hours on that alone. If you have enough cash in your pocket, you can ask to pay a cash bond instead of being held. They will tell you to appear at the station at 10am but when you arrive, you are told you should have been there at 8am so you forfeit the bond you paid. If you demand a receipt for the bond, they won't take the bond, they just throw you in the cell until they feel that you learned not to be so demanding.

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Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane

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So what you're basically saying is that by calling it a policy, it's all right to restrict people's freedom of expression. Well, I have some news for you, it doesn't work like that in the western society. I don't need to have cups of tea with the local oppressors to criticise my government. If I want my say I can go out, start a rally, and protest to anything I feel fit. It is my unalienable right as a citizen of a free country to do so, and this right is enshrined within the constitution unalterable by any means. We've seen what happens to people who do that in communist China.

Please don't give me that 'you don't understand China' spiel, it doesn't fly. You wrongly assume a lack of knowledge on my part. What you're basically saying is that if one keeps his mouth shut and put up, the unelected government of China will allow their citizenry the possibility to earn their wage and have a family (within limits BTW). As old a culture as China undoubtedly has, constitutional government based on free elections and freedom of expression has been around for quite some while in western society. All carved out steps in mountainsides notwithstanding, perhaps China would do well to catch up?

Chinese players of EVE are on a separate server because the Chinese government has decided, either in law or in policy, that their citizenry should not be exposed to western thought or argument, preferring instead to feed them their version of events and information, without possibility to recourse or argument.

I don't know what was in your ricebowl today, but I do know this: The Tibetan government may not be ideal or even democratic, but it was their own. Currently they have their internationally acknowledged head of state in exile while Chinese tanks and guns drive through the streets of Lhasa, either incarcerating or outright killing those who disagree to the Chinese invasion forces. Not to mention total repression of their own religion. These are indisputable facts. China did invade a sovereign country, and China does currently oppress the Tibetans. Facts! I personally fail to see how China telling anyone that they did that for their own good has any bearing on anything. I was wrong, it is wrong, and no matter how much Chinese propaganda you want to reiterate, it will always be wrong.

Perhaps you'd do well to remember that you're currently not talking to Chinese of the 'put up and shut up' mentality, but to free citizens with open access to a variety of news and information services not restrained by government interference. Being branded a dissident where I live if worn as a badge of honour, not a one-way ticket to a hard labour camp.

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Edited by: Red Dhalia on 14/06/2008 00:30:52
To Hardin... thx for some reason inserted... hard to see so much misinformation taken for fact. Glad I voted for ya

To Whisper... thx for the link and it definitely matches up with most of what I know about CCP in China and raises a question or two.

1) Do you have an equivalent to the pass9 system operating here? And if so whats the main contact point here?

2) I know the pricing is diff but can those game time cards sold on the mainland be used to play from the internatiaonal port on Tranquility?

I personally pay using an american cc. My wife and I are doing a test location cafe (not internet) using some new billboard and website marketing techniques and have considered EVE as a touchpoint for both the Chinese game and the international. This will be a student marketing niche w/many locations once the test site phase is over. I'm very interested in some details concerning info along those lines.

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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I'm an american who lives in China and plays the regular server here... bout a year now. I have probs with 'portal management' among other things but hey... I usually get in some good play. A lot of Chinese would like to as well. Believe it or not they are not all credit farmers and a lot of decent people in the bunch.

My question is what is the 'real' reason CCP isn't here making the main server more available? Don't give me the nonsense about China kill people/things or anything like that either. I just wasted some dudes in a Chinese game and many won't let you kill anything till you pay. Other 'reasons' i've heard are just as ludicrous. I can think of a few possibly legit reasons but nothing I think can't be overcome. Soooo.... CCP... why is it so hard for my Chinese buds to play with everyone else? The 'real' reason... please?

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Originally by: clonkrieger

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Edited by: clonkrieger on 17/06/2008 04:08:42

Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane

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So what you're basically saying is that by calling it a policy, it's all right to restrict people's freedom of expression. Well, I have some news for you, it doesn't work like that in the western society. I don't need to have cups of tea with the local oppressors to criticise my government. If I want my say I can go out, start a rally, and protest to anything I feel fit. It is my unalienable right as a citizen of a free country to do so, and this right is enshrined within the constitution unalterable by any means. We've seen what happens to people who do that in communist China.

Please don't give me that 'you don't understand China' spiel, it doesn't fly. You wrongly assume a lack of knowledge on my part. What you're basically saying is that if one keeps his mouth shut and put up, the unelected government of China will allow their citizenry the possibility to earn their wage and have a family (within limits BTW). As old a culture as China undoubtedly has, constitutional government based on free elections and freedom of expression has been around for quite some while in western society. All carved out steps in mountainsides notwithstanding, perhaps China would do well to catch up?

Chinese players of EVE are on a separate server because the Chinese government has decided, either in law or in policy, that their citizenry should not be exposed to western thought or argument, preferring instead to feed them their version of events and information, without possibility to recourse or argument.

I don't know what was in your ricebowl today, but I do know this: The Tibetan government may not be ideal or even democratic, but it was their own. Currently they have their internationally acknowledged head of state in exile while Chinese tanks and guns drive through the streets of Lhasa, either incarcerating or outright killing those who disagree to the Chinese invasion forces. Not to mention total repression of their own religion. These are indisputable facts. China did invade a sovereign country, and China does currently oppress the Tibetans. Facts! I personally fail to see how China telling anyone that they did that for their own good has any bearing on anything. I was wrong, it is wrong, and no matter how much Chinese propaganda you want to reiterate, it will always be wrong.

Perhaps you'd do well to remember that you're currently not talking to Chinese of the 'put up and shut up' mentality, but to free citizens with open access to a variety of news and information services not restrained by government interference. Being branded a dissident where I live if worn as a badge of honour, not a one-way ticket to a hard labour camp.

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No idea what country you are from... but I'd love to see you go out and rally about things like immigrantion and race in the US or UK and I bet you any money you will find yourself locked up :P Chinese government is not as harsh as western people are taught. And its no different on how oppressive the US & UK governments were in the past, and even of today. You make me laugh, but ohwell. If you live in the EU, then well, ahahaha, wont be long until the EU is anti-democratic, and so am I *I hate the EU*.

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Originally by: Brunn

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Originally by: Hardin

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So cut the guy some slack please.

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i have no problem on how ppl live in china, its their country so they know better than me.

what i gets me ****ed of is the "guy" saying that tibete "deserved" their fate, and that they are better off, no nation in the world has the right to decide that for another nation.

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...I'd love to see you go out and rally about things like immigrantion and race in the US or UK and I bet you any money you will find yourself locked up :P...

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Originally by: CCP Whisper

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Hi. I'm the associate producer whose responsibilities include keeping an eye on Serenity and making sure it gets its share of development resources from our team in Iceland. In China we work with a business parter, CDC Games, who is licensed to operate EVE Online, much like Blizzard works with The9 to operate World of Warcraft in the PRC.

We operate a separate server because it is part of the prerequisites that allow us to have a business in China. While searching for information to link people to about the government regulations, I stumbled across this article about how Blizzard operate in China. The summary in that is pretty much spot on. Can't really add much to what is quoted there, except that we're pretty happy how things are developing for EVE in China. We have slow but steady growth and an engaged community and things are going well.

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Originally by: Red Dhalia

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Edited by: Red Dhalia on 17/06/2008 20:29:08
Horse puckey... they never reduced the pop and the 'one child policy' had nothin to do w/the sex of the child... that was India... and you can have all the kids you want here as long as you can pay the extra taxes.

And btw... their 'revolution' was when they kicked out the europeans and americans who had 'spheres of influence' there that ran the country into the dirt for a hundred years n all but enslaved most of m.

And before you start yappin about me bein some warm fuzzy pro Chinese you should know that i'm just pro human and truth... at your age I was a marine during a lil thing called Nam and have since figgered out that everything not american is not by nature 'evil' or 'primitive'. You might consider takin a look at the concept.

Get a grip... better yet go buy a history book.

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China is Chine and will always be its own entity. They don't operate by anyones rules but their own. Just look at the environmental issue there. They're shutting down factories around Bejing to try to cut down on the smog before the Olympics. They won't do anything until an ozone hole roasts them all like peking duck. Even if the entire world went green as of right now, the "global warming" would still increase because of them.

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Originally by: Sgt Blade

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China is Chine and will always be its own entity. They don't operate by anyones rules but their own. Just look at the environmental issue there. They're shutting down factories around Bejing to try to cut down on the smog before the Olympics. They won't do anything until an ozone hole roasts them all like peking duck. Even if the entire world went green as of right now, the "global warming" would still increase because of them.

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imho that example is bad, the US is just as bad about the whole "global warming" thing if not worse.

also thats assuming "global warming" is actually happening...which it ain't

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