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White Tree
Broski Federation Elite Space Guild
178
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Posted - 2011.09.09 14:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
After a long delay, and a lot of back and forth between the CSM and CCP, we have managed to get the minutes out, more or less completely un-doctored and exactly how it was supposed to be, this is a victory for both the CSM and the player-base as a whole:
You can read the devblog about it here:
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2386
(sorry about the delay) |
baltec1
25
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Posted - 2011.09.09 14:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Good things come to thosewho wait |
RUSROG
Beasts of Burden
35
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Posted - 2011.09.09 14:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Praise the...wait. Never mind.
Finally.
-áE .-+ ` ' /-+. F
Your tears fuel me. And as always, have nice day. |
Tethys Atreides
The Audacity of Huge
26
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Posted - 2011.09.09 14:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quote:The CSM generally agreed that from a purely technical standpoint, Incarna had generally been a very successful expansion. Apart from the usual and expected hiccups, the deployment of the software was very smooth.
Really? How much Brenniv+¡n had you guys sucked down by this point?
Vapid platitudes aside, what struck me upon first reading this is how much time you spent complaining about the NeX pricing, and how little you talked about the distribution of effort between flying in space (FiS) and walking in stations (WiS). NeX exists to make CCP money. They are going to find a sweet spot eventually. The issue is how much of CCPs resources are being focused on that goal. There is a point of diminishing returns at which people will just stop playing, regardless of how good their characters look, because they are bored. I wish you had addressed this rather than bickering over pricing strategies.
I thank you guys for getting a firm commitment from CCP regarding "Golden Ammo". Good job on that.
Last but not least. Many of the issues surrounding the release of Incarna were chalked up to "a failure of communication". Don't you think that taking 3 months to publish 8 pages of text is just another in a long string failures? Why did it take so long to put this vanilla document in front of the players? |
Sader Rykane
The Dark Space Initiative Revival Of The Talocan Empire
87
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Posted - 2011.09.09 14:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
These minutes are going to be [REDACTED]. My favorite part was where they allowed us to [REDACTED]. If this is where [REDACTED] is [REDACTED] then why are the [REDACTED] allowed to touch the hamsters? I mean [REDACTED] is in no way going to allow [REDACTED] to function and I can't believe they actually used broccoli that way. Wtf CCP, that is not the way a proper [REDACTED] does [REDACTED].
I got to say I'm really [REDACTED] and [REDACTED] by what's going on in this company.
Sincerely, Sader [REDACTED] |
Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
79
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Posted - 2011.09.09 14:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
good to see that CCP and the CSM finally got along to release the minutes. WiS is kinda cool and all, but FiS is more important.-á More FIS WORK! Nerf Supers, get the new backgrounds, buff assault ships, do the 0.0 balance, buff lowsec. and make a space pony! DUST SHOULD BE ON THE PC (a real platform!) GDI! I WILL NOT BUY A FQNG PS3 |
Koby Botick
Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.09.09 14:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
First battle won it seems. Now to the war at large we turn our attention.
Thanks for your persverance and good luck with that which is to come. |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
56
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Posted - 2011.09.09 14:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
All that herf derf and that was it? |
Hung TuLo
Universal Fleet Operations Fatal Ascension
1
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Posted - 2011.09.09 14:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
I cannot beleive that tis CSM group is so arrogant. It's a game folks, Maybe CCP should say this is none of your business why we prices things the way we do. Maybe that CCP giving so much power to players allows the whining to continue. Maybe the players need to grow up and stick to their play dolls or making paper airplanes.
Sheese, It's a game. |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2011.09.09 14:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
WOW all old news that has been rehashed several thousand times on the forums by now. Thanks for finally putting it out, but now it is out of date and obsolete.
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Mr LaForge
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
46
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Posted - 2011.09.09 14:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hung TuLo wrote:I cannot beleive that tis CSM group is so arrogant. It's a game folks, Maybe CCP should say this is none of your business why we prices things the way we do. Maybe that CCP giving so much power to players allows the whining to continue. Maybe the players need to grow up and stick to their play dolls or making paper airplanes.
Sheese, It's a game.
But Eve is real. |
Psychophantic
24
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Posted - 2011.09.09 14:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Time to copypasta your favorite quotes.
Quote:stating for the record that there are not, nor have there ever been, any plans to introduce game-breaking items or enhancements to eve
Well we know that they had plans to sell remaps for plex, and to introduce a re-skinned ship for aurum before they'd implemented the trade in system thus making ships appear out of thin air (sorry industry). Guess this leaves a lot of wiggle room on their part to define game-breaking items.
Quote:EvE has been, and will continue to be, ONE OF the companys core projects
No longer their core project.
Quote:would never, either as individuals or as a company, intentionally try to hurt eve
Great, so it's just basic ineptitude then. |
Hotaru Yamato
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
11
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Posted - 2011.09.09 14:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
It's about time. I'm looking forward to what went on "behind the scenes" during that week. :) |
Bel Amar
Sudden Buggery
7
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Posted - 2011.09.09 14:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Hung TuLo wrote:Maybe the players need to grow up and stick to their play dolls...
'cause that makes a ton of sense :)
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Cipher Jones
36
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Got to the part where video cards overheating was a primary concern and threw up a little. No wonder you didn't want the minutes released.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Louis deGuerre
Malevolence. Territorial Claim Unit
16
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Less minutes, less door, and more ship spinning. FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! |
Signal11th
9
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
TL DR
Some players aren't happy
OK we are sort of sorry,
Hilmar you are a clown!
Can't you tone that down, maybe say I was misunderstood?
No!
Let's go to Karamba's
Let's Roll. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
79
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
Quote:The CSM emphatically reiterated their stance that EVE players should not have to spend real life money to have an advantage over other players, since anything of that nature would render the EVE sandbox pointless. CCP clearly stated again that there are not, nor have there ever been, any plans of this nature
Quote:CCP clearly stated that the investment of money in EVE should not give a player an unfair advantage over the investment of time. WiS is kinda cool and all, but FiS is more important.-á More FIS WORK! Nerf Supers, get the new backgrounds, buff assault ships, do the 0.0 balance, buff lowsec. and make a space pony! DUST SHOULD BE ON THE PC (a real platform!) GDI! I WILL NOT BUY A FQNG PS3 |
Gefgarion Ankatar
Lamellar Vorpal's Edge
1
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Seems like only the bare minimum was discussed to placate the players. What about the real backlog of issues that was really the root cause. Nex and Incarna were only the toppings on the crapheap
$99 licenses? 18 months? Commitment to excellence? Iterate on existing content? Fix current broken content? Resources wasted on crap that isn't eve? Etc... |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
182
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Denidil wrote:Quote:CCP clearly stated that the investment of money in EVE should not give a player an unfair advantage over the investment of time.
I look forward to CCP removing PLEX from the game.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
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Roh Voleto
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Quote:The CSM generally agreed that from a purely technical standpoint, Incarna had generally been a very successful expansion. Apart from the usual and expected hiccups, the deployment of the software was very smooth.
Stopped reading there. Is this supposed to be funny, or something? |
Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
79
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Got to the part where video cards overheating was a primary concern and threw up a little. No wonder you didn't want the minutes released.
strictly speaking that is the video cards fault. it is a sad state of affairs when video game designers have to be aware in their implementations to limit certain things because video card manufacturers can't be bothered to properly monitor the cards TDP and temperature to prevent burnout, and can't be assed to put those limiters in their drivers where they belong
(why yes - i am a bitter software engineer who's had to code around bugs in video card drivers before. why do you ask?) WiS is kinda cool and all, but FiS is more important.-á More FIS WORK! Nerf Supers, get the new backgrounds, buff assault ships, do the 0.0 balance, buff lowsec. and make a space pony! DUST SHOULD BE ON THE PC (a real platform!) GDI! I WILL NOT BUY A FQNG PS3 |
Bane Necran
30
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
Summary:
CCP intends the NEX store to be vanity items only.
The leak of that newsletter was a bad thing, and they're sorry for any confusion and loss of trust it caused in the community.
MIttani likes talking. A lot. |
Takamori Maruyama
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
6
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Roh Voleto wrote:Quote:The CSM generally agreed that from a purely technical standpoint, Incarna had generally been a very successful expansion. Apart from the usual and expected hiccups, the deployment of the software was very smooth. Stopped reading there. Is this supposed to be funny, or something?
I think it means that the implementation of incarna didnt shut of the servers for 1 week etc etc. That kind of annoying stuff, now for the public point of view...well |
Smart Azz
Vent Mob
88
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:Summary:
CCP intends the NEX store to be vanity items only.
The leak of that newsletter was a bad thing, and they're sorry for any confusion and loss of trust it caused in the community.
MIttani likes talking. A lot.
^^ this |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
182
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
Quote:CCP clearly stated that the investment of money in EVE should not give a player an unfair advantage over the investment of time. I look forward to CCP removing PLEX from the game. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
56
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
I like the part where CCP said that they felt the outcry was both touching and humbling. Yet they still decided to disregard it all and chose to "stay the course". So in all actuality they really didn't give a **** about the outcry, |
Psychophantic
24
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote: CCP intends the NEX store to be vanity items only.
It's a shame they can't actually say that so succinctly.
All they can do is regurgitate their lie that there are not, nor have there ever been, any plans, when we all know there were plans in the past, and they've proven that plans change. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
161
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
White Tree wrote:After a long delay, and a lot of back and forth between the CSM and CCP, we have managed to get the minutes out, more or less completely un-doctored and exactly how it was supposed to be, this is a victory for both the CSM and the player-base as a whole: You can read the devblog about it here: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2386(sorry about the delay)
Those minutes are pathetically vapid and weak. I have trouble believing there was any significant controversy whatsoever over the content there. Its quite bizzare to hear there has been any fight whatsoever over that content. The entire thing reads like CSM saying the player base is unhappy about X,Y,Z and CCP saying "oh well its our strategy to press on regardless and ignore you".
It is disappointing that the emergency summit appears so meaningless in retrospect and I guess it does explain why no real changes have been declared 4 months after incarna-release.
To my mind it puts us straight back to square one at incarna-rage, monocle-gate and the Jita riots and only thing the delay on these minutes has achieved is to ensure that a few more veterans unsubbed before the next wave of protest.
Frankly, NeX should be scrapped, Incarna project should finish with the next few CQ's and be put on the back-burner with a single scrum team at best to "iterate" it. While the huge majority of CCP developers need to get back to core Eve development ASAP and plan on delivering us 18 months worth of solid spaceship content development as an apology to the loyal player base of this game.
CCP management is so badly wrong and out of touch with its subscriber base it hurts.
Its ridiculous that it'll take an absolute unsubscription-wave and cash crisis and storm of 3rd party press site outrage to make these CCP stuffed-suits listen to the issues when they have a bloody CSM project in place to help them consult with the community already!
Why initiate the CSM in the first place if you are going to ignore the community and its representatives at every turn?
I remember going to Iceland as the first CSM chair and listening to CCP declaring a bold new vision of game development in partnership with its player base as a fledgling virtual nation sending representatives to influence the future development of the game.
I stood there at Thingvellir listening to this company describing us as "internet chieftains" responsible for a grand new experiment in virtual politics as stakeholders in the virtual world of New Eden and I thought "this is pretty loopy, but its good loopy, its visionary madness, its exciting and its bold."
But what I read in these emergency minutes is not anything approaching a partnership of respect its simply a cash-greedy corporate buzzword addiction riding roughshod over the opinions of the Eve player base and deciding to ignore all feedback, council, advise and suggestion from the CSM representatives.
And to the current CSM while I do respect and appreciate the time you took attending this emergency meeting and hounding CCP for the minutes we got (such as they are) I have to say I don't think you did enough to press in the meetings on the evidence we now have and to redeem yourselves going forward infinitely more pressure will be required.
The only "victory" for the Eve player base going forwards is going to be if CCP wake up and smell the roses and put their focus back on restoring Eve from its 18 months of content neglect.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. |
Denidil
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
79
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Posted - 2011.09.09 15:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:Quote:CCP clearly stated that the investment of money in EVE should not give a player an unfair advantage over the investment of time. I look forward to CCP removing PLEX from the game.
what you gain from PLEX (isk) is just as acquirable through time. and if you're doin the right activities you can get the value of several plexes in one eight-hour play session. WiS is kinda cool and all, but FiS is more important.-á More FIS WORK! Nerf Supers, get the new backgrounds, buff assault ships, do the 0.0 balance, buff lowsec. and make a space pony! DUST SHOULD BE ON THE PC (a real platform!) GDI! I WILL NOT BUY A FQNG PS3 |
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