The CSM generally agreed that from a purely technical standpoint, Incarna had generally been a very successful expansion. Apart from the usual and expected hiccups, the deployment of the software was very smooth.

I cannot beleive that tis CSM group is so arrogant. It's a game folks, Maybe CCP should say this is none of your business why we prices things the way we do. Maybe that CCP giving so much power to players allows the whining to continue. Maybe the players need to grow up and stick to their play dolls or making paper airplanes.

Sheese, It's a game.

stating for the record that there are not, nor have there ever been, any plans to introduce game-breaking items or enhancements to eve

EvE has been, and will continue to be, ONE OF the companys core projects

would never, either as individuals or as a company, intentionally try to hurt eve

Maybe the players need to grow up and stick to their play dolls...

The CSM emphatically reiterated their stance that EVE players should not have to spend real life money to have an advantage over other players, since anything of that nature would render the EVE sandbox pointless. CCP clearly stated again that there are not, nor have there ever been, any plans of this nature

CCP clearly stated that the investment of money in EVE should not give a player an unfair advantage over the investment of time.

The CSM generally agreed that from a purely technical standpoint, Incarna had generally been a very successful expansion. Apart from the usual and expected hiccups, the deployment of the software was very smooth.

Got to the part where video cards overheating was a primary concern and threw up a little. No wonder you didn't want the minutes released.

Stopped reading there. Is this supposed to be funny, or something?

Summary:

CCP intends the NEX store to be vanity items only.

The leak of that newsletter was a bad thing, and they're sorry for any confusion and loss of trust it caused in the community.

MIttani likes talking. A lot.

CCP clearly stated that the investment of money in EVE should not give a player an unfair advantage over the investment of time.

CCP intends the NEX store to be vanity items only.

After a long delay, and a lot of back and forth between the CSM and CCP, we have managed to get the minutes out, more or less completely un-doctored and exactly how it was supposed to be, this is a victory for both the CSM and the player-base as a whole:

You can read the devblog about it here:

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2386

(sorry about the delay)

I look forward to CCP removing PLEX from the game.

Stopped reading there. Is this supposed to be funny, or something?

All they can do is regurgitate their lie that there are not, nor have there ever been, any plans, when we all know there were plans in the past, and they've proven that plans change.

strictly speaking that is the video cards fault. it is a sad state of affairs when video game designers have to be aware in their implementations to limit certain things because video card manufacturers can't be bothered to properly monitor the cards TDP and temperature to prevent burnout, and can't be assed to put those limiters in their drivers where they belong


(why yes - i am a bitter software engineer who's had to code around bugs in video card drivers before. why do you ask?)

Proves I was right in unsubscribing all three accounts and as of now I am just waiting for time left to expire.

CCP doesn't care what you say (the CSM and players) and will ONLY react to what you do (unsubscribe).

It is time for the dissatisfied players to do the only thing that seems to be able to get Hilmar's attention, remove your hard earned money from CCP's coffers. I'm just disappointed that our CSM doesn't have the courage to come right out and say that this is true.

CQ performance is utterly horrible.

okay so what was so contraversial that it took this long to edit?
Most of those minutes where already released in dev blogs...

No really what was the point of contention?

Those minutes are pathetically vapid and weak. I have trouble believing there was any significant controversy whatsoever over the content there. Its quite bizzare to hear there has been any fight whatsoever over that content. The entire thing reads like CSM saying the player base is unhappy about X,Y,Z and CCP saying "oh well its our strategy to press on regardless and ignore you".

It is disappointing that the emergency summit appears so meaningless in retrospect and I guess it does explain why no real changes have been declared 4 months after incarna-release.

[...]

But what I read in these emergency minutes is not anything approaching a partnership of respect its simply a cash-greedy corporate buzzword addiction riding roughshod over the opinions of the Eve player base and deciding to ignore all feedback, council, advise and suggestion from the CSM representatives.

And to the current CSM while I do respect and appreciate the time you took attending this emergency meeting and hounding CCP for the minutes we got (such as they are) I have to say I don't think you did enough to press in the meetings on the evidence we now have and to redeem yourselves going forward infinitely more pressure will be required.

i don't disagree with that assessment. but that doesn't make it CCP's fault that video card manufacturers - a certain one in particular - are absolutely hammered **** about managing the TDP of their video cards, and the thermal output that must be dissipated.

hardware concerns like that are supposed to be of no concern to the game. that's the purpose of general purpose abstraction interfaces like D3D and OpenGL.

blame CCP for bad performance of the CQ
blame your video card manufacturer if your card failed because of it.

Oh, CCP, for the record - I am sick to the back teeth of reading about your goals and plans.

Can't say there is anything I disagree with in this post. Although I think the CSM felt overshadowed and no in control during the entire meeting. The CSM minutes are poor, the message is poor and I actually understand why CCP would not want these issues out because they clearly show how little the message we where sending has been received by CCP

The only question I have is why the CSM put up with all of that so long. Good thing they finally made a move in the right direction, confrontation.

okay so what was so contraversial that it took this long to edit?

Aren't their goals and plans the central concern here, or am i missing something? All the people protesting and quitting say quite clearly it's because of the direction they think CCP is taking the game.

more or less completely un-doctored and exactly how it was supposed to be

Those minutes are pathetically vapid and weak. I have trouble believing there was any significant controversy whatsoever over the content there. Its quite bizzare to hear there has been any fight whatsoever over that content. The entire thing reads like CSM saying the player base is unhappy about X,Y,Z and CCP saying "oh well its our strategy to press on regardless and ignore you".

It is disappointing that the emergency summit appears so meaningless in retrospect and I guess it does explain why no real changes have been declared 4 months after incarna-release.

To my mind it puts us straight back to square one at incarna-rage, monocle-gate and the Jita riots and only thing the delay on these minutes has achieved is to ensure that a few more veterans unsubbed before the next wave of protest.

Frankly, NeX should be scrapped, Incarna project should finish with the next few CQ's and be put on the back-burner with a single scrum team at best to "iterate" it. While the huge majority of CCP developers need to get back to core Eve development ASAP and plan on delivering us 18 months worth of solid spaceship content development as an apology to the loyal player base of this game.

CCP management is so badly wrong and out of touch with its subscriber base it hurts.

Its ridiculous that it'll take an absolute unsubscription-wave and cash crisis and storm of 3rd party press site outrage to make these CCP stuffed-suits listen to the issues when they have a bloody CSM project in place to help them consult with the community already!

Why initiate the CSM in the first place if you are going to ignore the community and its representatives at every turn?

I remember going to Iceland as the first CSM chair and listening to CCP declaring a bold new vision of game development in partnership with its player base as a fledgling virtual nation sending representatives to influence the future development of the game.

I stood there at Thingvellir listening to this company describing us as "internet chieftains" responsible for a grand new experiment in virtual politics as stakeholders in the virtual world of New Eden and I thought "this is pretty loopy, but its good loopy, its visionary madness, its exciting and its bold."

But what I read in these emergency minutes is not anything approaching a partnership of respect its simply a cash-greedy corporate buzzword addiction riding roughshod over the opinions of the Eve player base and deciding to ignore all feedback, council, advise and suggestion from the CSM representatives.

And to the current CSM while I do respect and appreciate the time you took attending this emergency meeting and hounding CCP for the minutes we got (such as they are) I have to say I don't think you did enough to press in the meetings on the evidence we now have and to redeem yourselves going forward infinitely more pressure will be required.

The only "victory" for the Eve player base going forwards is going to be if CCP wake up and smell the roses and put their focus back on restoring Eve from its 18 months of content neglect.

I look forward to CCP removing PLEX from the game.

Really.

Here's the thing. Running 1 CQ environment in Eve I get GPU utilization at 75-80% on my I7 processor and GTX580 graphics card. And nothing is really happening there. Its a character standing around an environment doing nothing. It ramps up the fans and makes a noise and heats up the room even!

Last night I bought Space Marine. This is a 3d action fps mayhem game. I run it in 1920x1200 res with all options turned to maximum. It has space-marines carving up dozens of hires-rendered orcs with power axes with gouts of blood and severed limbs hurled skywards in 20 feet tall gore fountains. There's so much violence on screen its shocking.

NB. Space Marine costs much less than a monocle.

Have a guess what my GPU utilization hovers around ?

25%

Thats right. I can run 3 bloody copies of the game in the same GPU utilization as it takes for one nonsense Minmatar CQ in Eve. Space Marine doesn't even make my fan spin above near silent idle.

And you want to tell us the problem is with the graphics cards?

Its simply a hugely poorly designed graphic engine that shows CCP don't really get avatars and they'd have been better off licensing somebody else's engine rather than wasting incredible man-hours of effort reinventing the wheel only to find the wheel wasn't even a perfect circle and kept rubbing the wheel arches!

CQ performance is utterly horrible.

LOL
UMAD

CCP clearly stated that the investment of money in EVE should not give a player an unfair advantage
over the investment of time.