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Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:53:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: iudex
Why is there so much bitterness and hate in this thread?
It's because they imagine that CCP will surely nerf it now because she posted (as if they don't have logs / can't see it's too easy unless a player posts it), and so they won't be able to get to max rank like she did.
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ollobrains2
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:58:00 -
[92]
lower the gain for capturing bunkers, raise the amount of rats and see what else can be tweaked
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Thirzarr
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Posted - 2008.06.18 11:59:00 -
[93]
I think its a fine piece of CSM work right there:
Finding something horribly close to an exploit (sry, harsh word, but getting max rank without any "real" pvp  ) and demonstrating that its not just a theory is definately a way to get some fokus to it.
Good job at giving CCP something to undo and redo to make it be worth something.
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Illuvian
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.06.18 12:21:00 -
[94]
Originally by: ollobrains2
lower the gain for capturing bunkers, raise the amount of rats and see what else can be tweaked
Nah, I say we keep everything the same. Except announce in the militia channel anytime an opposing force enters a capture point.
Of course the Amarr like Ankh will still run away at the slightest sign of trouble and try to turn the greatest thing that has happened to PvP in this game to the next exploit for exploitative carebears.
Metus improbos compescit, non clementia.
It is fear, not kindness that restrains the wicked. |
FlameGlow
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 12:27:00 -
[95]
1. Get top rank for Amarr
2. Get top rank for Caldari
3. Run missions for SOE to get to 0.5 with Gallente/Minmatar
4. Get top rank for Gallente
5. Get top rank for Minmatar
6. Profit anchoring POSes anywhere in highsec!
Haven't checked the maths but I think getting about 5.5 faction standing to all empires is possible.
Also I wonder if you're demoted for losing stand to militia corp and get faction boost when promoted again  Faction BS BP farming anyone?
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2008.06.18 12:47:00 -
[96]
You've won EVE?
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Carniflex
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.06.18 13:23:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor
They are talking about state standings, which are significantly harder to obtain than corp standings.
Well militia ranks are given for militia corp standings. Increased faction standings are just side effect of gaining militia next rank once per character career. And I was more referring to pint that one does not need to grind 'low level' content before gaining acsess to content that gives 'proper' rewards but can instead immediately hit the complexses giving 'reasonable' standings gains towards that corporation.
In my minmatar example longest part was gaining acsess to lev 3 agents, once there I was on best lev 4 in approx a day. Grinding missions like there is no tomorrow ofc meaning no looting and just speedrunning them in good ship with good skills.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.18 14:06:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Mazakura
What the hell are you guys talking about. RANKS SHOULD BE WORTHLESS. In fact they never should have put ranks into this FW. This is not WoW and frankly the fact that CCP did put ranks into the game makes me a little sick.
If they ever have ranks get you ships and/or gear they are just one step away from driving eve into the ground.
RIIIIIGHT ranks = WoW for sure.
I mean the idea of gatering something to get somethign else is WOW... oh wait..**** you need isk! isk is honor! oh god get rid of isk!
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.18 14:08:00 -
[99]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 18/06/2008 14:11:32
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: Seviere
Kinda disturbing that one can get the higher rank without even making a pvp kill... wasn't FW mainly about the pvp 
It's an objective- based gametype, not team deathmatch -- or at least that's what it looks like to me. You score in those types of games by achieving objectives, not by racking up kills. It's just that killing lots of guys presumably makes the objectives easier to do. Pretty standard game design really.
Looking at it again though, if she basically hoed up a bunch of points by running uncontested plexes in systems her faction safely owns, well, that's a flaw in the scoring system and it needs addressing.
Indeed the current system is broken as all hell. I mean it's wierd FW missons ive little isk and LP for the risk and yet for no risk you can gain one of the highest ranks.
also to the OP you should quit the corp and go join the other mitilitias now get rank 10 for all 4!
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Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.18 14:21:00 -
[100]
I too am disappointed that max rank can be acheived so quickly. The net result is that the ranks are meaningless, even as eye candy, because everyone will have them all. 
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Rhanna Khurin
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.06.18 14:34:00 -
[101]
Hmm, forgive me if this question has been asked before, but i assume there is a limit on how many people can achieve the highest ranks to stop everyone from being a "divine commodore" and thus have more chiefs than indians syndrome.
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Jenny Spitfire
LoneStar Industries
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:08:00 -
[102]
Gratz Ankeh. 
---------
Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Go vote!
Put voice for silent majority.
LOVE PVP, HATE grief |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:33:00 -
[103]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Indeed the current system is broken as all hell. I mean it's wierd FW missons ive little isk and LP for the risk and yet for no risk you can gain one of the highest ranks.
No risk? Then why is there talk of her wrecks and losses in this thread?
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Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:34:00 -
[104]
Quote:
Killing people was not required to capture the plexes.
Almost everything was captured with a ship+fitting worth less than 100k.
I did not kill anyone in the process, although I have fired on some people to scare them off.
What the...Minmatar, you fail horribly. It sounds like you let 111 complexes that *you started* get re-captured without any fight whatsoever.
Anyway, call it 120 plexes over 6 days, that's 20 plexes a day. 30 min to a plex is 600 minutes per day, or Ten hours per day for 6 days doing nothing but capping plexes
Your dedication is quite astounding.
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Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:42:00 -
[105]
Quote:
Kinda disturbing that one can get the higher rank without even making a pvp kill... wasn't FW mainly about the pvp
It's only PvP if the other guy shows up for the fight. Minmatar didn't show up...111 times in a row. Shame on you Minmatar. What are you guys doing???
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Qduhaf
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:43:00 -
[106]
Ankhesentapemkah - say your CSM recruiting video, and glad that you are dedicated to this game and working with CCP to make it better for all players. Not sure that you would listen but my suggestion that would help put the war into FW, and make fun, engaging PVP accessible to the average person would be that missions in FW should be PVP based, and limited in some way to numbers and types of ships.
I'd propose several mechanisms put in place to make this happen:
1)Every mission needs 2 parties to make it happen (eg, 1 caldari, 1 gallente): This would not only ensure that it was PVP focused but also balance out the sides (if everyone is caldari, then there wouldnÆt be missions for them as there were no gallente sides)
2)Mission sends both parties to a contested system victory point, those victory points can not be scanned out, nor can ships/drones, etc be scanned out within them. One side is the defender, the other the attacker.
3)Each mission/side has a point structure, allowable ship types and a recommended and maximum number of allowable points. Assume that Level 1 missions are for tech 1 or 2 frigs and 4 players, level 2 are for tech 1 or 2 frigs tech 1 cruisers and tech 1 battlecruisers/battleships and 8 players, level 3 are for all ship types, 8 players and level 4 for all tech 1 and 2 battleship and below and 32 players (fleet warfare). These point structures change by mission, and arenÆt always the same on each side so no ôwinningö formulas (ie, dual guardian for the slow painful win), and each side is given an indication of what they will face based on how the points are allocated, of course instead of 4 interceptors, one side might take 8 noob ships that total out to the same points so you really wonÆt know how many or what ships you will face.
4)Winning side gets rewards, based upon 2 factors: a) total point value of their ships that entered the victory point with 0 reward if exceeded max allowed points and b) the ranks of the opposing playerÆs team. This means you would get a lot more rewards for beating top ranked players with a small group, less if you won with a large group against noobs and nothing if you blobbed the victory point.
5) losing side lose LPs, but only if the victor stayed within the points allotment.
Of course either side could camp the gates in between, etc but at least this would guarantee that the end PVP result would be what I think most new and older players regard as fun.
Maybe if have the control points were spawned out of PVP missions as above, and half as they are today then it would still leave play for those that don't want to live a structured life.
Also any officer ranks should only be achieved via PVP missions LPs, and can be take away. So you could do what you did and become the highest enlisted rank, but to be an officer you have to have and maintain a positive LP balance. They the ranks would be a true indicator of the players capabilities in an MMO scenario.
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Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:45:00 -
[107]
Oh also, capturing plexes does a lot more for your team than sitting in a blob gatecamping the opponents entry point into low sec, which is what most people seem to be going for. That doesn't get your side anything.
Capturing plexes helps your side gain control of the systems, which is the entire point behind factional warfare. It's safe to say no one helped their side as much as Ankh has, if you look at it purely by the numbers.
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Bellum Eternus
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:52:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
As predicted, it took less than a week to achieve the maximum faction warfare rank (Divine Commodore), for the Amarr Empire in this case.
Screenshot
Here are the interesting facts:
111 faction warfare complexes were captured in the process, almost all of them defensively.
Due to all the promotions, my Amarr standing raised from 0.55 to 7.16.
It took 6 days to achieve this rank.
Grouping up was not required to capture the plexes.
Killing people was not required to capture the plexes.
Almost everything was captured with a ship+fitting worth less than 100k.
I did not kill anyone in the process, although I have fired on some people to scare them off. Your new Divine Commodore is a moral objectionist. 
While I did a lot of the work by myself, this task wouldn't have been accomplished as fast without:
Daraasi, Plausible, KC51, Lernaeus and Rabbi Godzilla for the intel and teamwork.
Special thanks to:
DanFrazer for contributing hundreds ships for the Amarr cause, this guy deserves a medal.
Laerise and the people of PIE for a nice raid into Minmatar space.
Amarr Victor, hehe
Excellent job. Only by breaking the game mechanics and showing CCP with actual results how ineffective their game design is can we ever hope for them to change it to something that is actually meaningful and worthwhile.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION
Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:11:00 -
[109]
Ok, OP had no pvp "final blows" in the capturing process.
But who is to blame ?
If you have a war and a warzone, and a special ops can operate in, accomplishing tasks for one warparty, without being disturbed by the enemy, who is to blame ?
It's those damn Minmatar ! They did not defend their sides, it was their job to stop the OP from accomplishing military operations. Apparently they horribly failed in that, but created meaningless blobs at places that had less meaning to the war.
How do they want to win a war, when everyone can take over their systems and they don't do anything ?
Thats why they'll always remain slaves, the OPs accomplishment proves how bad they are.
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Vladimir Titov
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:13:00 -
[110]
There are a few things I would like to point out:
1- The number of systems that the Minmatar have in contention is 42, compared to the Amarr 26. So if you are an Amarrian there is a whole lot more systems to contest. This leads to more plexes, and as such more points.
2- It takes a great deal of determination to plex hunt for so long. Most people do a few and then want another player to fight.
What worries me here is that the folks at CCP will look at Ankhesentapemkah as though he was the average gamer and then increase the difficulty of getting a promotion for everyone.
I started FW last Friday, and its been a blast. Been involved in several plex captures are rose to Spear Lieutenant, but I also had fun and got plenty of PvP action. Everyone knows that as your standings go up the rate of increase begins to decline. So I don't see a problem with any of this.
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Ulstan
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:40:00 -
[111]
Quote:
What worries me here is that the folks at CCP will look at Ankhesentapemkah as though he was the average gamer and then increase the difficulty of getting a promotion for everyone. Of course he can complain that he had a normal day, but the fact is he spent all of his EvE time capturing those points.
I suspect Ank devoted about 15 hours a day for 6 days to capturing all those complexes. (And since most of them were defensive,only about 26 systems to defend - surely you could have stopped that, Minmatar?)
So, if a casual player who caps plexes for 5 hours a week wants to max his rank, it will take him 18 weeks. I don't think the progression is too fast per se, but there will always be people who just spend every waking moment (or close to it) wholly focused and optimized on getting to a goal. That they get there fast doesn't mean it takes too little time, you have to consider how long it will take your 'average' player to get there.
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Tommy Reslin
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.06.18 20:58:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Tommy Reslin on 18/06/2008 21:02:55
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
Ok, OP had no pvp "final blows" in the capturing process.
But who is to blame ?
If you have a war and a warzone, and a special ops can operate in, accomplishing tasks for one warparty, without being disturbed by the enemy, who is to blame ?
It's those damn Minmatar ! They did not defend their sides, it was their job to stop the OP from accomplishing military operations. Apparently they horribly failed in that, but created meaningless blobs at places that had less meaning to the war.
How do they want to win a war, when everyone can take over their systems and they don't do anything ?
Thats why they'll always remain slaves, the OPs accomplishment proves how bad they are.
This is exactly what I told my side in the Militia. That these groups that just gatecamp/focus on kills aren't doing anything from our side. That if it increases it'll be the downfall of our faction. Instead, they told me that they're "training" new players how to pvp and that they're "toying" with the amarr. Luckily, there are those of us that do capture plenty of objectives and defend.
How can the op get away with this? Simple, there's not enough of us. If we go in and see someone trying to defend a plex, they can quickly warp off to find another plex. Even if we cover all the plexes in the system, the person in question can rush to another system where our group can't cover. There's very rarely more than 3 groups doing plexes at any given time.
At the same time I've noticed quite a bit of our contested systems completely empty from Amarr. In groups of threes we've been able to uncontest many of our systems. So it's not just the minmatar that are guilty of "Gate camping" or "Not defending." It's both sides.
*Edit* I agree that it's not too fast. I think it should be left how it is. Do we really want it to take awhile and have high rewards? Do we really want faction warfare to become a major grind? Right now I see most people as Spike or Spear Liutenants. I have yet to be in a group that is rank 6 like myself. The average person will not get the rank in a week.
As I said before, I say that the rewards should be very simple things. Such as slightly cheaper cloning prices, repairs, etc. Just basic little things that add up. If it's made to take awhile, those of us who hit max in the time where it's "easy" get free rewards whereas everyone else has to work 3 times harder.
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Krall Amarr
Amarr Trading Company
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Posted - 2008.06.18 21:01:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Qduhaf
Edited by: Qduhaf on 18/06/2008 20:03:43
..
Go back to wow
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Miz Cenuij
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Posted - 2008.06.18 21:31:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Quelque Chose
Originally by: Miz Cenuij
Basically I'm a total fggt.
Well, that settles that then I expect. 
Only in ur wettest dreams nub.
"Men are going to die... and i'm going to kill them" |
Matalino
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.18 21:44:00 -
[115]
Originally by: FlameGlow
1. Get top rank for Amarr
2. Get top rank for Caldari
3. Run missions for SOE to get to 0.5 with Gallente/Minmatar
4. Get top rank for Gallente
5. Get top rank for Minmatar
6. Profit anchoring POSes anywhere in highsec!
Haven't checked the maths but I think getting about 5.5 faction standing to all empires is possible.
Also I wonder if you're demoted for losing stand to militia corp and get faction boost when promoted again Faction BS BP farming anyone?
I have thought about getting the top rank for all of the faction, but I figured that I would wait until there is something more to being promoted than just getting a faction standing increase.
Because FW uses the same derived standings system as missions, your final standings would be the same as if you ran missions for all of the factions.
The only thing that working up all of the ranks will do is blow your one chance to fix your faction standings if you frak up your standings with one of the empire faction blocks.
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Artemis Rose
Eleckrostatik
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Posted - 2008.06.18 22:38:00 -
[116]
Well, Ankh, did you have fun achieving your max rank? At all? Even small scraps of fun? You did get complete them solo and you got standings and a rank. What were you expecting?
Factional Warfare isn't all about ranks, it isn't all "Hai guys lets blob Tama", its exactly what you make of it. If you want to camp gates, in a mega blob, you can. If you want to capture plexes, go ahead. Do you want to get a shiny rank and standings? You can.
I, personally, liked the handful of missions I've done. It changed up the routine and its not too terrible of a mechanic. Will it be popular? I doubt it, a major aspect of PvE content is easy access, instant action and ISK/tangible rewards for time imho.
__________________________________________________
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat. |
Aloriana Jacques
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.06.19 01:23:00 -
[117]
Congrats to ya Ank! I hope you had fun doing it and it wasn't just an grueling info gathering event.
I'm curious though. Did it affect any corporation standings as well, or only your faction standings?
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DesuSigs |
Lia Darklotus
Hematite Rose
Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.06.19 01:57:00 -
[118]
I don't see any real accomplishment here. All I see is someone who went out of their way not to pvp at all. Not to mention the fact that those interested in PvPing seem to have taken up gate camping instead of running plexes. It seems these people favor the odds in a gate camp because they don't want to lose their ships So you have two groups here. One group is hell bent on avoiding pvp and the other is hell bent on avoiding any kind of even sided ( or lopsided ) pvping so they won't lose ships.
In the end I can only see that it's the players themselves who making the decisions not to engage each other properly. This game is a sandbox game and thus I doubt CCP will force people to fight each other if they don't want to or only want to do so when they know they can win.
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Jmanis Catharg
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.19 02:36:00 -
[119]
Quote:
Well, Ankh, did you have fun achieving your max rank? At all? Even small scraps of fun? You did get complete them solo and you got standings and a rank. What were you expecting?
^^ This. Aside from whether a game mechanic is broken or useless or whatnot, whether there's rewards or not, the main part is did you have fun?
The objective of FW is, at the end of the day whether it's secondary objectives are to get people into low-sec pvp, offer more PvE content or provide e-peen stroking in the form of ranks, is, to capture systems. If capturing systems involves finding the enemy system with the least resistance, capturing the points and eventually taking the control bunker while never seeing another player for PvP, so be it. The objective of capturing the system is complete. It's not my fault nobody chose to defend that system, and I certainly wouldn't run scared if people arrived at that system (provided it wasn't blindly stupid to continue my attempts in the face of overwhelming odds).
It's a bit unfortunate that it is so easy to get max rank by fitting a nano and orbiting the objective, almost immune to damage, but if that gives you kicks, go for it.
Personally in achieving ranks I'm choosing to sit in the one spot within range of the beacon destroying every NPC or PC that comes my way. I plan to die. Lots. I have a stockpile of at least 50 ships from frigates right up to battleships and fittings to burn while I'm at it. Point is, I want to capture points and earn rank without nano-ing. If there's PCs there to fight me, makes it more exciting, if there isn't, the fun of pew pew gets replaced by the fun getting closer and closer to higher ranks.
Blobs and being barked at by some FC is not what I joined FW for, so I don't go to Tama  I never submit killmails either, whether it's my kill or my loss. It's just not my idea of fun to say "Hey, I killed someone/got killed, now I have to find their killboard and post it..."
One time ages ago pre-FW someone saw me arcing up at Gallente customs in hi sec with a remote-repping scorpion helping me out. A couple people laughed, and one said "You idiot, what are you doing? They don't drop loot!". I didn't care. I was having fun.
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Thorradin
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.19 03:50:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Miz Cenuij
Lol what a joke. Ranks should be related to the number of enemy player ships downed. Not how much of a carebear some inbred can be for 2 weeks.
Kills giving ranks would get abused so heavily that it would be downright silly. Not as much as smartbombing gates in lowsec in a mom, and jumping out as soon as anything that might be a threat shows up, but close.
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