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Cronar
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Posted - 2004.05.13 13:38:00 -
[1]
It seems that a couple days ago a group of grief players decided to target our corperation for a war. they fly frigates but are experienced players and go around start a war with a random corperation and demand items or face a bigg loss. well they demanded 200 million isk or 3 battleships from us but we dont have either. were a small corp that barely have any items to our name so we had no choice but to leave the corperation we worked hard to get where it is today. 2 of our members left the game for good 3 are seeking other corperations. We have laws to protect us in real life against these terrorists, (i call them terrorists because thats what they would be considered in real life) but it seems in the world of Eve we have no laws to fall back on.
I just want to tell you about these kind of players and what we need in the game is a choice. both sides have to vote to go to war. i know thats not the way it works out but i dont like working to get somewhere in a game and have it all taken buy a bunch of griefers.
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Deadflip2
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Posted - 2004.05.13 13:39:00 -
[2]
mercs without a job = baddys
---
"this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me.
I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist
OMG im a pretzel!!! |
Fragm
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Posted - 2004.05.13 13:45:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Fragm on 13/05/2004 13:47:23
Cronar mail me in game i can solve your problem.
 Originally by: Cronar
It seems that a couple days ago a group of grief players decided to target our corperation for a war. they fly frigates but are experienced players and go around start a war with a random corperation and demand items or face a bigg loss. well they demanded 200 million isk or 3 battleships from us but we dont have either. were a small corp that barely have any items to our name so we had no choice but to leave the corperation we worked hard to get where it is today. 2 of our members left the game for good 3 are seeking other corperations. We have laws to protect us in real life against these terrorists, (i call them terrorists because thats what they would be considered in real life) but it seems in the world of Eve we have no laws to fall back on.
I just want to tell you about these kind of players and what we need in the game is a choice. both sides have to vote to go to war. i know thats not the way it works out but i dont like working to get somewhere in a game and have it all taken buy a bunch of griefers.
Cao Cao > Alright well I checked the logs, and I got wtfpwned, I admit I was wrong, nice kill guys
OK i made a post Flame away |
Omniwar
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Posted - 2004.05.13 13:49:00 -
[4]
Hmm, if both parties would have to agree on a war there wouldnt be a single ammo spent against players in high security systems since there wouldnt be any corp wars.
If by some strange mystic powers people would actully start shooting at those they wanted to declare war on in empire space but couldnt declare the war since it wasnt agreed on we would see a lot of people who were not "pirates" with such a bad security standings that they could not enter above 0.5 again.
Mess with corp wars so it has to be decided by both parties and PVP in empire is dead.
Spawn of the Devil
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Pychian Vanervi
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Posted - 2004.05.13 13:55:00 -
[5]
I don't understand, you can't stick up for yourself so you come on here to moan?
*BEEEP* flames removed- adrastos can't you find a viable solution to overcome this problem?
1/ Move location
2/ hire mercs
3/ learn to fight back
there are 3 for starter......or are you the type of corp that thinks because you don't want to fight nobody should fight you?
I am not a pirate and would be happy to see some burn, but I am not for selective war protection. Its a harsh universe and the strong will survive and prosper.
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It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
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eddie valvetino
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Posted - 2004.05.13 13:57:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Cronar
It seems that a couple days ago a group of grief players decided to target our corperation for a war. they fly frigates but are experienced players and go around start a war with a random corperation and demand items or face a bigg loss. well they demanded 200 million isk or 3 battleships from us but we dont have either. were a small corp that barely have any items to our name so we had no choice but to leave the corperation we worked hard to get where it is today. 2 of our members left the game for good 3 are seeking other corperations. We have laws to protect us in real life against these terrorists, (i call them terrorists because thats what they would be considered in real life) but it seems in the world of Eve we have no laws to fall back on.
I just want to tell you about these kind of players and what we need in the game is a choice. both sides have to vote to go to war. i know thats not the way it works out but i dont like working to get somewhere in a game and have it all taken buy a bunch of griefers.
I understand how that can be annoying, but it's just like real life, isn't that the whole idea of the game?
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) |
Aelius
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Posted - 2004.05.13 14:09:00 -
[7]
One simple solution... Erase all alts from the game.
Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station |
Omniwar
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Posted - 2004.05.13 14:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Aelius
One simple solution... Erase all alts from the game.
Sorry but I fail to see how that is a solution to delete everyones alts, and what about people who play 3 different roles with 3 different characters wich none of the 3 can be called a "main".
It does sometimes apply that the simple solution is the best but this simple solution does not do the trick I¦m afraid.
Spawn of the Devil
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Poetry
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Posted - 2004.05.13 14:40:00 -
[9]
Yeah but it's that whole few bad apples thing.
If people cannot act reasonably, then they lose privileges. Alts are privileges.
There are a number of people exploiting the fact you can create an alt corp with a dozen or so people easily from your happy pirate corp. Prolly the same pirate corp that is getting it's butt handed to it in the outer areas. So where can they go?
Oh hey new players have no clue. We can kill them easily! Then do so.
They are experienced and can train up rapidly getting the skills needed to be effective against smaller corps and new players.
So with the organization of months of play these guys grief new players in 'protected' space. Often telling them that the game is not for them. Of vowing to hunt them down, since they really have nothing better to do, abandoning their war they are losing on the fringes.
10k was a nice mark to hit. Does the game even get over 8k much lately on peak times? That's 2000 people. A 20% loss in possible revenue for CCP. Yeah, wake up to the problems or go out of business like many others.
What you have is a system that allows people to learn the game in safety then make their way to dangerous areas when prepared. Now the protected and training areas are compromised. The impact will be a few months down the road when player attrition continues and there is no new wave of players to replace them.
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Bohr
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Posted - 2004.05.13 14:52:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Bohr on 13/05/2004 15:01:47
Originally by: Omniwar
Hmm, if both parties would have to agree on a war there wouldnt be a single ammo spent against players in high security systems since there wouldnt be any corp wars.
If by some strange mystic powers people would actully start shooting at those they wanted to declare war on in empire space but couldnt declare the war since it wasnt agreed on we would see a lot of people who were not "pirates" with such a bad security standings that they could not enter above 0.5 again.
Mess with corp wars so it has to be decided by both parties and PVP in empire is dead.
Right. But the problem is, afaik, that you can actually declare a war without any warning or reason to your counterpart. Meaning that a corp can declare war on anybody anywhere, loot their stuff, blow up their ships and basically gank the hell out of them, all the while CONCORD sits and watches. It's a bit of a sad story when things turn out that way.
After all there's a large group of players enjoying the build up part of the game, so getting ganked and losing hours of their work can be quite a punch for an empire based organization. Especially small corps risk a very hard time from experienced players and gankers etc. Should be possible to come up with some rules, or even better possibilities for these corps. I.e protection money for CONCORD, mercs (who sadly tends to turn into pirates when they are bored, much like the glazier paying of kids to bash windows).
As for the "not a single unit of ammo spent if non-consentual wars we're introduced", i doubt it. I think, and hope, that first of all these kind of wars would be non-existent, and the ones raging would instead be centered around the role-play aspects of the game (i.e the ever good><bad cause, minmatar><amarr) and could add a lot more quality to the game, instead of countless, often quite sad, threads on gank wars.
0.0, and i think also 0.1-0.4, should still be considered unclaimed and near unclaimed territory, therefor free for all.
Yours Bohr
ps. might even end the proposed frig nerf 
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Raem Civrie
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Posted - 2004.05.13 14:53:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Raem Civrie on 13/05/2004 15:02:24
I'm stunned, that's all. Three cruisers and "we've taken everything". One battleship and two or three cruisers locked up in a station while five frigates outsidewait for something to happen. All this in one day, and "we've taken everything". Doesn't it occur to you that SOMETHING IS WRONG?. There are a hundred ways to kill frigates, but you seem to have ignored every one of them. Hire someone to TEACH you if you don't know how.
It's a part of the game. I tried to be the miner, the hauler, the trader and the killer. So far, I like the killer best. And if you want to hold on to your assets, you find ways to protect them. That's the way it goes. Because in EVE, you can become rich in a flash, but you can also lose everything in a moment.
And don't call me griefer. I don't do this to make people's lives miserable. I do this for the thrill of the hunt.
P.S. I'm no alt. And just because we didn't tell you our reasons doesn't mean we don't have any.
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Shevaun Ashnirelim
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Posted - 2004.05.13 15:01:00 -
[12]
That is us he's talking about, the Black Monkey Corporation are the "grief players" that declared war on his Trinity Corporation. As usual, the corporations we target follow a predictable pattern we have experienced three times now:
- When the war is declared, they spout bravado and promise to kill us all.
- When the first day of combat is ended, they have a bloody nose and we have no losses.
- They disband quickly and scatter to the four winds, making sure to post one last mopey attack against us.
You weren't picked at random, you know - we saw your CEO in a Scorpion, we saw the other Scorpion you sold, we reasoned that you were manufacturing them. We came at your Moas and your Thoraxes and your Caracals with our Incursus frigates to give you a fighting chance, rather than bringing the battleships and interceptors from our main accounts. We stood our ground before the station your CEO cowered in, knowing full well that if he and the others trapped within undocked, we'd likely die. Don't worry, Cronarr - everyone in Eve knows about "these kinds of players"; what you should know is that I've never before seen an entire corporation disintegrate so thoroughly after only one day of combat in which you lost only three cruisers and a few frigates. A telling sign of how woefully under-prepared you were for the universe you occupied.
Have a tissue, wipe your nose, and understand that this is the nature of the game you play. War drives the market, it forces you to buy bullets and missiles and ships. You won't get your wish of consentual warfare as it would eradicate the market as we know it - learn to deal with the world you're placed in.
Oh, and since I'm such a nice Monkey, I will lower my war-ransom to one Scorpion battleship - your CEO's. I don't want to be responsible for driving any of you to suicide over this tragedy.
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Atar
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Posted - 2004.05.13 15:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Pychian Vanervi
I don't understand, you can't stick up for yourself so you come on here to moan?
Have you such a small brain and even smallers balls that you can't find a viable solution to overcome this problem?
1/ Move location
2/ hire mercs
3/ learn to fight back
there are 3 for starter......or are you the type of corp that thinks because you don't want to fight nobody should fight you?
I am not a pirate and would be happy to see some burn, but I am not for selective war protection. Its a harsh universe and the strong will survive and prosper.
The guy has a legit problem. Having you leave respones like that only makes it worse. He is asking for help or trying to bring out a flaw ingame which most people probably agree with. So please STFU! If you got a problem with that look me up ingame!
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Vincent Lausoontornsiri
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Posted - 2004.05.13 16:21:00 -
[14]
awww its over already?  
"Vae victo, vae victis" - Woe to the vanquished men, woe to the vanquished people
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Shevaun Ashnirelim
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Posted - 2004.05.13 16:35:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Shevaun Ashnirelim on 13/05/2004 16:36:41
We did some fun math over at Black Monkeys while waiting for our next war to ratify - we wanted to see how much money we spent in this war, to bring your corporation of four months' hard labor and toil to its ruin. Now, during combat with one of your Caracals, a newer member of the Monkeys didn't targetjam quickly enough, and as a result I took a salvo of missiles which required about 15,000 ISK to repair. A mate of mine took armour damage from some of your drones in his Punisher when we attacked your two Moas in Ohide, which cost about 10k to repair. Next, let's tally up the ammo cost.
Assuming that six out of eight of our frigates used blasters with AM ammo, and that those six expended at least a whole magazine (about 360-400 rounds) worth in combat with your cruisers, we have arrived at the precise investment it took to cause your CEO to quit the game, and all your men to scatter to the four winds:
repairs: 25,000 ISK
AM S rds: 16,800 ISK
------------------------
total: 41,800 ISK.
Your corporation was an ill-assembled deck of cards, and any gust of wind would have blown you over. You never belonged in Eve.
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Reloaded INC
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Posted - 2004.05.13 16:38:00 -
[16]
roflmao another lame arss corp who likes to greif noobs,
see the corp im in has just recived a decleration of war from u,
personally i think we recuited a spy into our corp hence the reason u have declared war on us u wont eleaborate on the reasons, but our corp is ony a month old and is doing extremly well, also which brings me to my next piont everything u have just stated in ur above thread is tripe.
u are greifers nothing more nothing less come near us and we will turn ur ships into scrap and please bring ur big big ships we have many expendable ones for u to put to the test,
if any one else is having problems u should mssg us we will be happy to provide assistance.
now for the witty remarks and quotes **end transmission**
I am the bad guy the kriptonite the green cronic.
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ClarCE
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Posted - 2004.05.13 16:41:00 -
[17]
Firstly, I don't agree with this, or disagree with it, its just the game, but how about this:
A War Authorisation Council setup by CCP
This council has the final vote in war declarations, and there are not that many declared per day for them not to be able to keep up.
This council would have to listen to the reasons that corp A wants to declare on corp B, and decide whether they let the corps war. These reasons could or could not be broadcasted to corp B, dependant on what corp A says...This could offer people more of a chance at diplomacy before fighting.
As I said, don't really care myself, but thought I'd have a look at a possible solution for your problem
--'The Way is Shut'--
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Jenny...Get to the Chopper---Stick Around
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Shogo
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Posted - 2004.05.13 16:41:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Aelius
One simple solution... Erase all alts from the game.
What's an alt? |
Shevaun Ashnirelim
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Posted - 2004.05.13 16:44:00 -
[19]
We don't fight in big big ships, Reloaded. It isn't our style. Mama always taught me, "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose".
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Reloaded INC
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Posted - 2004.05.13 16:47:00 -
[20]
cant afford to build 
I am the bad guy the kriptonite the green cronic.
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Raem Civrie
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Posted - 2004.05.13 17:05:00 -
[21]
My dear little darlin' Reloaded. Go take classes or something. Please. You are hurting my bwain.
I would never engage in a battleship. The simple reason is that battleship combat is about as fun as banging your head against the wall, and about as elaborate. Now, like the quaint little korean said, "end yourself". Might makes right. If you don't like that, go play a game with consentual PvP.
Also, don't call me a griefer. I resent that. I am not a griefer. I just kill people.
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Vexed
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Posted - 2004.05.13 17:37:00 -
[22]
I don't care either way, just like to make some comments on the current situation.
Wars in empire space take place, amazingly, in space controlled by empires which in turn are policed by Concord. I'm sure Concord who are supposed to uphold law and order would look on with a certain amount of distress, a large aggressive corporation suddenly and for no apparent reason declare war on another that is small in comparison and is in no way inclined to engage in a war that will most likely mean their demise, and would likely intervene.
I'm pretty certain when CCP implemented the ability to declare war on another corp it was intended that it would not be used in this manner. I could well be wrong but it just seems odd.
To the guy who said to leave for a game that has consentual PVP, I'm pretty sure with the advent of Shiva he will be playing a game that requires consent to PVP, in empire at least.
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Shevaun Ashnirelim
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Posted - 2004.05.13 17:41:00 -
[23]
I think you got a little mixed up there, sugarpie! We're the small corporation and they're the large one.
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Bohr
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Posted - 2004.05.13 17:42:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Shevaun Ashnirelim
Edited by: Shevaun Ashnirelim on 13/05/2004 16:36:41
repairs: 25,000 ISK
AM S rds: 16,800 ISK
------------------------
total: 41,800 ISK.
Only one question. What was your gain from this, other than ruin a couple of players gaming experience?
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Vexed
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Posted - 2004.05.13 17:42:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Vexed on 13/05/2004 17:46:57
Quote:
I think you got a little mixed up there, sugarpie! We're the small corporation and they're the large one.
It is irrelevant the size, I was using that for argument's sake. I will simplify my answer next time I guess.
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Shevaun Ashnirelim
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Posted - 2004.05.13 17:51:00 -
[26]
Bohr: While we didn't get our ransom (since the enemy corporation exploded after one day of combat), we did get a few very valuable things from this war:
- Combat skills for our newer members who have never faced a live and superior player in Eve. One of our guys, brand new, helped target-jam a Caracal cruiser which would've mopped the floor with us all... admittedly he was a bit rusty and let one through, but we killed the Caracal in the end.
- A lot of fun for everyone on our side of the firefight. Engaging two Moas with four Incursus/Punishers was scary, and keeping the battleship piloting CEO and three of his corpmates bottled up in a station for a hour or two was a blast.
Vexed: It wasn't "for no reason" - they had battleships, and we wanted them for free. I know you carebears like to scream "but it's for no reason!", whereas that simply isn't the case.
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Vexed
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Posted - 2004.05.13 17:54:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Shevaun Ashnirelim
Vexed: It wasn't "for no reason" - they had battleships, and we wanted them for free. I know you carebears like to scream "but it's for no reason!", whereas that simply isn't the case.
Well you're obviously right because you played the 'carebear' card of which I obviously am, even though the first thing I said was:
Quote:
I don't care either way but....
Oooh, ooh, griefer! There I win 
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Shevaun Ashnirelim
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Posted - 2004.05.13 18:03:00 -
[28]
To a pirate, a carebear is anyone who stands in his way.
To a miner, a griefer is anyone who stands in his way.
The terms are largely meaningless.
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Reloaded INC
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Posted - 2004.05.13 18:07:00 -
[29]
well as you so put it i intend to do as the "quaint little korwean" said and end my self many times ships are free clones are cheap so is ur smack talk and tactics
see u on the front dearwest
I am the bad guy the kriptonite the green cronic.
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Vexed
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Posted - 2004.05.13 18:11:00 -
[30]
Just to finish up because as always no one can give an impartial view.
Originally by: Shevaun Ashnirelim
Vexed: It wasn't "for no reason" - they had battleships, and we wanted them for free.
Just proves the point that people are using wars in a way that was originally unintended. Not because you have any disagreement with the corp you are at war with, you're just trying to ransom them, read pirate them, in empire space using the war function to enable such a practise.
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