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Cale Nearing
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Posted - 2008.06.19 12:20:00 -
[1]
As a disclaimer before I get going: I'm basically a carebare. I run missions. In a Raven. It doesn't take rocket science, and it doesn't take absurd damage per second ratios.
Even so, I can't help but compare my calculations for my own damage output to some of the claims I've seen on the forums.
Here's what I've got in terms of relavent skills:
Missile Launcher Operation V
Cruise Missiles V
Rapid Launch V
Cruise Missile Specialization I
Warhead Upgrades IV
Battleships V
I fly a Navy Issue Raven with seven TII cruise launchers and two TII BCS. Now, a Cruise Missile does three hundred damage, base. A tech two launcher has a rate of fire of 17.6 seconds, base. That's (300damage/17.6seconds) roughly 17.045 damage per second, per launcher.
Now, I get:
-a 25% damage bonus from the Cruise missiles skill
(5%/level)
-a 2% damage bonus from the Cruise Missile Specialization skill. (2%/level)
-an 8% damage bonus from the Warhead Upgrades skill (2%/level)
That means that my actual damage per missile is: 300*1.25*1.02*1.08, or roughly 413.1 damage.
I also get:
a 15% reduction in rate of fire from Rapid Launch (3% per level)
-a 10% reduction in rate of fire from Missile Launcher Operation (2% per level)
-and a 25% reduction from the Raven itself (5%/level)
That means I have a firing time of 17.6*0.85*0.9*0.75, or 10.098 seconds.
413.1 damage over 10.098 seconds makes for 37.62 damage per second per launcher, and, with seven launchers, 263.36 total damage per second. Still far short of the mythical 1000 dps.
Alright, fine. I still have two BCS. Now, I'm not sure what the stacking penalty is (I think it's around a 20% knock for the second module) but I'll just go ahead and calculate this as if there wasn't one. With a 10.5% reduction to firing time and a 10% damage increase from each, this takes me to:
(413.1*1.1*1.1)/(10.098*0.895*0.895) or 499.851 damage over 8.089 seconds. That's 61.79 damage per second per launcher and 432 damage per second total.
So, I basically have good skills and good equipment, and I'm not even half-way to that legendary 1k dps. But, it gets worse! There isn't even any hope that I'll one-day get there. Observe:
Presume all the skills are maximized and I have three Caldari navy BCS (for the sake of the demonstration, I'll still presume no stacking penalty, but I won't go beyond three because three without penalties provides more benifit than five with.) I'll go ahead and shoot Caldari Navy cruise missiles, too.
That's 345 damage times 1.25, 1.1, 1.1, 1.125, 1.125, 1.125, = 742.9 damage over
15.4 times .75*.85*.9*.895*.895*.895 = 6.334 seconds
That's more damage (thanks to ignoring the stacking penalties on the BCS) than a faction Raven with faction fittings can put out with its guns and its still only 820dps.
Do missiles just do way worse DPS than other guns? (This wouldn't explain everything, since I've seen people claim to get more than 1000 dps out of their Ravens)
Is my math wrong? Did I misunderstand how this stuff stacks, somehow?
Is there some special super-damage skill that I am just missing?
Is that 1000+ dps stat typically including drones?
Does everyone who posts that they get better than 1000 dps actually fly around in faction battleships with faction fittings?
How does one achieve 1000 dps. It really looks to be beyond any reasonable expectation. Show me your fits and show me your math--convince me that people who make such claims aren't just taking the ****.
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Drek Grapper
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Posted - 2008.06.19 12:26:00 -
[2]
Use this to save you time with all those calculations...it must have taken you forever.
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If the Thorax was a car it would look like this |
wi ownYoo
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Posted - 2008.06.19 12:28:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Cale Nearing
...
well 1k dps with long range weapons like cruise missiles isnt doable. Try Torps and its easy going for example(but still, dont use torps for missioning unless you are in a golem)
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.06.19 12:30:00 -
[4]
like others have said... cruise is long range and no way u can get 1k dps
torps in the other hand 
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Fighting for Minmatar o7
Yes... this is my main.
Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Hannobaal
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.19 12:31:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Cale Nearing
Here's what I've got in terms of relavent skills:
Missile Launcher Operation V
Cruise Missiles V
Rapid Launch V
Cruise Missile Specialization I
Warhead Upgrades IV
Battleships V
I fly a Navy Issue Raven with seven TII cruise launchers and two TII BCS.
Quote:
How do you do 1000 dps
To begin with, by not using a cruise missile ship. 
Quote:
Is that 1000+ dps stat typically including drones?
Yes.
Quote:
Does everyone who posts that they get better than 1000 dps actually fly around in faction battleships with faction fittings?
No. A regular Raven can do it... with torpedos.
Most (if not all) turret battleships can too, when fitted with close range guns.
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Sean Faust
Point of No Return
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.06.19 12:35:00 -
[6]
1. Missiles are, by far, the lowest DPS weapons in the game.
2. To get their DPS numbers, people use a program called EFT (Eve Fitting Tool) that calculates the DPS based on your skills and also has a skill template that assumes all skills are at 5. EFT isnt entirely accurate, however, and can be "optimistic."
3. Any time you see a raven fit that claims to break 1000 DPS, it was factored using torpedoes, which have MUCH higher dps than cruise missiles. Each weapon type is divided into two subcategories: a short range, high DPS weapon and a long range, low DPS weapon. In the case of large missiles, cruise are the long range, low DPS ones.
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leung bak
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Posted - 2008.06.19 12:43:00 -
[7]
overcharge your tubes. gives another 15% ROF on top of my head
Also use the implant that gives 3% or is it 5% ROF for missile tubes
Im at work so cant verify exact numbers
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Toolivus
Verdant Inquiries
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:04:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sean Faust
Each weapon type is divided into two subcategories: a short range, high DPS weapon and a long range, low DPS weapon.
Except frigate missiles!
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
XIII Legio
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Toolivus
Originally by: Sean Faust
Each weapon type is divided into two subcategories: a short range, high DPS weapon and a long range, low DPS weapon.
Except frigate missiles!
What do you mean by that?
Rocket are short range higher dps than light missiles.
__________________________________________________
Sup brosef!
Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
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Durzel
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:16:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cale Nearing
As a disclaimer before I get going: I'm basically a carebare. I run missions. In a Raven. It doesn't take rocket science, and it doesn't take absurd damage per second ratios.
1000 dps is not possible in a cruise Raven (even a CNR). People don't fly Ravens/CNRs for the high DPS, they fly them because they're too lazy to think about transversal, optimal ranges, kiting, cap management, worrying about whether the targets are weak to their weapons, etc.
Cruises suffer quite badly vs most NPCs with defenders as well, which EFT doesn't really take into account. You could easily lose 1 in 5 missiles to defenders, and some NPCs are worse than others for it.
Running some numbers it seems the laser boats (Nightmare, Paladin, etc) are the way to go for insane DPS, but they suffer from the age-old problem of actually having to be at the keyboard to complete missions because you'll have to get into range and keep an eye on transversal. What a grind! 
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Indy Boy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:38:00 -
[11]
Sikrit 1000 dps raven setup
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Toolivus
Verdant Inquiries
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Omarvelous
Originally by: Toolivus
Originally by: Sean Faust
Each weapon type is divided into two subcategories: a short range, high DPS weapon and a long range, low DPS weapon.
Except frigate missiles!
What do you mean by that?
Rocket are short range higher dps than light missiles.
I mean standards are low dps and long range, while rockets are low dps and short range.
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Durzel
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Indy Boy
Sikrit 1000 dps raven setup
Why I oughta!
1 defender missile would reduce the DPS below 1k though. 
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CryoHead
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Indy Boy
Sikrit 1000 dps raven setup
Will try as soon as I have the 120 bil required to fit it.
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Hannobaal
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:49:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Toolivus
I mean standards are low dps and long range, while rockets are low dps and short range.
Except they're not. Rockets have much higher dps than light missiles.
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d3vo
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sean Faust
1. Missiles are, by far, the lowest DPS weapons in the game.
everything but TORPS
torps is the strongest weapon in the game (compared with blasters, pulses, or ac's)
i.e. a raven (6 sieges) with 3 damage mods puts out more dps than a mega and an abaddon
...i cant believe i just wrote this but it's true 
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:57:00 -
[17]
just a little btw: a fully skilled t2 fit raven with torps and drones barely scratches the 800 mark or so, innit? with using t1 ammo, at least.
But yeah, the simple answer to the OP'S question in the title would be
"by fitting short range weapons"
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d3vo
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:02:00 -
[18]
Edited by: d3vo on 19/06/2008 14:03:13
Originally by: P'uck
just a little btw: a fully skilled t2 fit raven with torps and drones barely scratches the 800 mark or so, innit? with using t1 ammo, at least.
But yeah, the simple answer to the OP'S question in the title would be
"by fitting short range weapons"
why use t1 ammo when you can use t2?
990dps raven
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:11:00 -
[19]
Edited by: P''uck on 19/06/2008 14:14:51
because not everybody can (ok that makes no sense combined with that "if you can use.." part) and cost.
most OTHER close ranged BS can push 1000dps with t2 gear and t1 ammo iirc.
edit: but i think they dont even get close to torprange, on the other hand.
also i think you got some implants plugged in, no? even with t2 ammo its oughta be a bit lower without implants. and you forgot drones.
anyways my point stands: raven is actually the lowest dps close range bs, iirc, but with the longest range AND (and imho thats where its interesting) its rather interesting to see how soon you get a LARGE fraction of your maximum damage.
that means even a low skilled player can deal out some serious hurt, which helps the phoon a lot, too.
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Caldus Ailwon
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: P'uck
edit: but i think they dont even get close to torprange, on the other hand.
Ha!
Nightmare+ 4 tachs + faction ammo+ amarr navy heatsinks + implants (+5% all turret AND 5% large turret) will do it.
Also, optimal is 33+. 24 km Falloff means you can land regular hits out to 45km or so.
Navy Apoc with pulse and the right setup (3 amarr navy heat sinks, and rigs) and implants should get close as well again with good range.
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:23:00 -
[21]
i know lasers have ok-ish range, but i havent used them enough to be able to recall all the data without any help. thats why i said i THINK they dont come close...
anyway, can you please elaborate on
Originally by: Caldus Ailwon
Also, optimal is 33+. 24 km Falloff means you can land regular hits out to 45km or so
what you mean regular hits? afaik as long as youre outside 33km you WILL get reduced dmg, period. probably still better than a long range gun in optimal, i dont know, but im just asking what you mean with regular hits.
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:36:00 -
[22]
You forgot about drones too, 5 tech 2 medium drones add a fair bit of dps with max skills
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I should really get a sig. |
Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:38:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Zaerlorth Maelkor on 19/06/2008 14:38:52
Originally by: CryoHead
Originally by: Indy Boy
Sikrit 1000 dps raven setup
Will try as soon as I have the 120 bil required to fit it.
How about the 100 bil to buy the ship in the first place?
Edit: OMG You already have a state issue raven!!!!11ELEVEN
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I should really get a sig. |
Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
XIII Legio
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:45:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Indy Boy
Sikrit 1000 dps raven setup
I fly with heavy neuts in the hopes of fighting a ship like this one day. 
__________________________________________________
Sup brosef!
Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
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Ichiro Itaki
Rage For Order
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: d3vo
Edited by: d3vo on 19/06/2008 14:03:13
why use t1 ammo when you can use t2?
990dps raven
Except your optimal is 30km. You might as well use torps now.
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Sanzorz
EVEfan.dk
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:51:00 -
[26]
I know myself Nightmare is one of them to hit 1k dps easily. Tachs with faction ammo works great that way, and it becomes a monster if you're arsed to spend money on the +5% large energy damage, +5% turret rof and +5% tracking implants. As it shield tanks, then it's easy to fill your low slots with 3 heatsinks and bbq anything in your wake. Tracking with tachs along with the implant and a single Tracking Computer is pure win :)
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Mary Anne
Belgica Optimus Serpensis
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Posted - 2008.06.19 15:25:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Mary Anne on 19/06/2008 15:25:43
If it is just for that *theoretical* maximum potential stuff:
A CNR can get up as high as 1,251 dps with drones, 7 Cruise Launchers, Faction ammo, one turret on 8th slot without any implants used. Thus these 1251 are not even the absolute maximum.
So - discussion over, you could if you had 60+ bill isk and get the stuff needed. On a more serious sidenote: around 916 dps are possible in a pure T2 fit on a CNR with 7 Cruise Launchers and some other stuff... this also without implants used.
---
then again besides all those numbers: actually playing the game is more fun than trying to calculate it ;)
--
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BRUCE rl photo shoot of the tight knit likeminded hardcore players
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.06.19 16:49:00 -
[28]
my brother could fly around in this if he bothered...
6x siege t2 whit navy ammo
mwd, 3x lse, 2x invul
3x bcu, dcu, pdu
3x extender rigs.
whit hes skills... it barely breaks 1k dps whit faction ammo (easyer whit rage ofc but u need painter friends :) )
----------------------------------
Fighting for Minmatar o7
Yes... this is my main.
Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Inertial
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.06.19 16:54:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Indy Boy
Sikrit 1000 dps raven setup
If you are going to be a EFT warrior, at least do it right.
we are recruiting!
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.19 17:53:00 -
[30]
As has been already said, you need stupid skills and fit to do 1000dps with long range weaponry.
A Torp Raven on the other hand, does massive amounts of damage, and doesn't need anything more than a T2 fit.
Which is nice.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
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