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Cale Nearing
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Posted - 2008.06.19 12:20:00 -
[1]
As a disclaimer before I get going: I'm basically a carebare. I run missions. In a Raven. It doesn't take rocket science, and it doesn't take absurd damage per second ratios.
Even so, I can't help but compare my calculations for my own damage output to some of the claims I've seen on the forums.
Here's what I've got in terms of relavent skills:
Missile Launcher Operation V
Cruise Missiles V
Rapid Launch V
Cruise Missile Specialization I
Warhead Upgrades IV
Battleships V
I fly a Navy Issue Raven with seven TII cruise launchers and two TII BCS. Now, a Cruise Missile does three hundred damage, base. A tech two launcher has a rate of fire of 17.6 seconds, base. That's (300damage/17.6seconds) roughly 17.045 damage per second, per launcher.
Now, I get:
-a 25% damage bonus from the Cruise missiles skill
(5%/level)
-a 2% damage bonus from the Cruise Missile Specialization skill. (2%/level)
-an 8% damage bonus from the Warhead Upgrades skill (2%/level)
That means that my actual damage per missile is: 300*1.25*1.02*1.08, or roughly 413.1 damage.
I also get:
a 15% reduction in rate of fire from Rapid Launch (3% per level)
-a 10% reduction in rate of fire from Missile Launcher Operation (2% per level)
-and a 25% reduction from the Raven itself (5%/level)
That means I have a firing time of 17.6*0.85*0.9*0.75, or 10.098 seconds.
413.1 damage over 10.098 seconds makes for 37.62 damage per second per launcher, and, with seven launchers, 263.36 total damage per second. Still far short of the mythical 1000 dps.
Alright, fine. I still have two BCS. Now, I'm not sure what the stacking penalty is (I think it's around a 20% knock for the second module) but I'll just go ahead and calculate this as if there wasn't one. With a 10.5% reduction to firing time and a 10% damage increase from each, this takes me to:
(413.1*1.1*1.1)/(10.098*0.895*0.895) or 499.851 damage over 8.089 seconds. That's 61.79 damage per second per launcher and 432 damage per second total.
So, I basically have good skills and good equipment, and I'm not even half-way to that legendary 1k dps. But, it gets worse! There isn't even any hope that I'll one-day get there. Observe:
Presume all the skills are maximized and I have three Caldari navy BCS (for the sake of the demonstration, I'll still presume no stacking penalty, but I won't go beyond three because three without penalties provides more benifit than five with.) I'll go ahead and shoot Caldari Navy cruise missiles, too.
That's 345 damage times 1.25, 1.1, 1.1, 1.125, 1.125, 1.125, = 742.9 damage over
15.4 times .75*.85*.9*.895*.895*.895 = 6.334 seconds
That's more damage (thanks to ignoring the stacking penalties on the BCS) than a faction Raven with faction fittings can put out with its guns and its still only 820dps.
Do missiles just do way worse DPS than other guns? (This wouldn't explain everything, since I've seen people claim to get more than 1000 dps out of their Ravens)
Is my math wrong? Did I misunderstand how this stuff stacks, somehow?
Is there some special super-damage skill that I am just missing?
Is that 1000+ dps stat typically including drones?
Does everyone who posts that they get better than 1000 dps actually fly around in faction battleships with faction fittings?
How does one achieve 1000 dps. It really looks to be beyond any reasonable expectation. Show me your fits and show me your math--convince me that people who make such claims aren't just taking the ****.
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Drek Grapper
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Posted - 2008.06.19 12:26:00 -
[2]
Use this to save you time with all those calculations...it must have taken you forever.
---------
If the Thorax was a car it would look like this |
wi ownYoo
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Posted - 2008.06.19 12:28:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Cale Nearing
...
well 1k dps with long range weapons like cruise missiles isnt doable. Try Torps and its easy going for example(but still, dont use torps for missioning unless you are in a golem)
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.06.19 12:30:00 -
[4]
like others have said... cruise is long range and no way u can get 1k dps
torps in the other hand 
----------------------------------
Fighting for Minmatar o7
Yes... this is my main.
Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Hannobaal
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.19 12:31:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Cale Nearing
Here's what I've got in terms of relavent skills:
Missile Launcher Operation V
Cruise Missiles V
Rapid Launch V
Cruise Missile Specialization I
Warhead Upgrades IV
Battleships V
I fly a Navy Issue Raven with seven TII cruise launchers and two TII BCS.
Quote:
How do you do 1000 dps
To begin with, by not using a cruise missile ship. 
Quote:
Is that 1000+ dps stat typically including drones?
Yes.
Quote:
Does everyone who posts that they get better than 1000 dps actually fly around in faction battleships with faction fittings?
No. A regular Raven can do it... with torpedos.
Most (if not all) turret battleships can too, when fitted with close range guns.
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Sean Faust
Point of No Return
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.06.19 12:35:00 -
[6]
1. Missiles are, by far, the lowest DPS weapons in the game.
2. To get their DPS numbers, people use a program called EFT (Eve Fitting Tool) that calculates the DPS based on your skills and also has a skill template that assumes all skills are at 5. EFT isnt entirely accurate, however, and can be "optimistic."
3. Any time you see a raven fit that claims to break 1000 DPS, it was factored using torpedoes, which have MUCH higher dps than cruise missiles. Each weapon type is divided into two subcategories: a short range, high DPS weapon and a long range, low DPS weapon. In the case of large missiles, cruise are the long range, low DPS ones.
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leung bak
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Posted - 2008.06.19 12:43:00 -
[7]
overcharge your tubes. gives another 15% ROF on top of my head
Also use the implant that gives 3% or is it 5% ROF for missile tubes
Im at work so cant verify exact numbers
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Toolivus
Verdant Inquiries
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:04:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sean Faust
Each weapon type is divided into two subcategories: a short range, high DPS weapon and a long range, low DPS weapon.
Except frigate missiles!
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
XIII Legio
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Toolivus
Originally by: Sean Faust
Each weapon type is divided into two subcategories: a short range, high DPS weapon and a long range, low DPS weapon.
Except frigate missiles!
What do you mean by that?
Rocket are short range higher dps than light missiles.
__________________________________________________
Sup brosef!
Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
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Durzel
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:16:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cale Nearing
As a disclaimer before I get going: I'm basically a carebare. I run missions. In a Raven. It doesn't take rocket science, and it doesn't take absurd damage per second ratios.
1000 dps is not possible in a cruise Raven (even a CNR). People don't fly Ravens/CNRs for the high DPS, they fly them because they're too lazy to think about transversal, optimal ranges, kiting, cap management, worrying about whether the targets are weak to their weapons, etc.
Cruises suffer quite badly vs most NPCs with defenders as well, which EFT doesn't really take into account. You could easily lose 1 in 5 missiles to defenders, and some NPCs are worse than others for it.
Running some numbers it seems the laser boats (Nightmare, Paladin, etc) are the way to go for insane DPS, but they suffer from the age-old problem of actually having to be at the keyboard to complete missions because you'll have to get into range and keep an eye on transversal. What a grind! 
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Indy Boy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:38:00 -
[11]
Sikrit 1000 dps raven setup
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Toolivus
Verdant Inquiries
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Omarvelous
Originally by: Toolivus
Originally by: Sean Faust
Each weapon type is divided into two subcategories: a short range, high DPS weapon and a long range, low DPS weapon.
Except frigate missiles!
What do you mean by that?
Rocket are short range higher dps than light missiles.
I mean standards are low dps and long range, while rockets are low dps and short range.
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Durzel
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Indy Boy
Sikrit 1000 dps raven setup
Why I oughta!
1 defender missile would reduce the DPS below 1k though. 
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CryoHead
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Indy Boy
Sikrit 1000 dps raven setup
Will try as soon as I have the 120 bil required to fit it.
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Hannobaal
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:49:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Toolivus
I mean standards are low dps and long range, while rockets are low dps and short range.
Except they're not. Rockets have much higher dps than light missiles.
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d3vo
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sean Faust
1. Missiles are, by far, the lowest DPS weapons in the game.
everything but TORPS
torps is the strongest weapon in the game (compared with blasters, pulses, or ac's)
i.e. a raven (6 sieges) with 3 damage mods puts out more dps than a mega and an abaddon
...i cant believe i just wrote this but it's true 
__________
-_- |
P'uck
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Posted - 2008.06.19 13:57:00 -
[17]
just a little btw: a fully skilled t2 fit raven with torps and drones barely scratches the 800 mark or so, innit? with using t1 ammo, at least.
But yeah, the simple answer to the OP'S question in the title would be
"by fitting short range weapons"
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d3vo
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:02:00 -
[18]
Edited by: d3vo on 19/06/2008 14:03:13
Originally by: P'uck
just a little btw: a fully skilled t2 fit raven with torps and drones barely scratches the 800 mark or so, innit? with using t1 ammo, at least.
But yeah, the simple answer to the OP'S question in the title would be
"by fitting short range weapons"
why use t1 ammo when you can use t2?
990dps raven
__________
-_- |
P'uck
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:11:00 -
[19]
Edited by: P''uck on 19/06/2008 14:14:51
because not everybody can (ok that makes no sense combined with that "if you can use.." part) and cost.
most OTHER close ranged BS can push 1000dps with t2 gear and t1 ammo iirc.
edit: but i think they dont even get close to torprange, on the other hand.
also i think you got some implants plugged in, no? even with t2 ammo its oughta be a bit lower without implants. and you forgot drones.
anyways my point stands: raven is actually the lowest dps close range bs, iirc, but with the longest range AND (and imho thats where its interesting) its rather interesting to see how soon you get a LARGE fraction of your maximum damage.
that means even a low skilled player can deal out some serious hurt, which helps the phoon a lot, too.
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Caldus Ailwon
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: P'uck
edit: but i think they dont even get close to torprange, on the other hand.
Ha!
Nightmare+ 4 tachs + faction ammo+ amarr navy heatsinks + implants (+5% all turret AND 5% large turret) will do it.
Also, optimal is 33+. 24 km Falloff means you can land regular hits out to 45km or so.
Navy Apoc with pulse and the right setup (3 amarr navy heat sinks, and rigs) and implants should get close as well again with good range.
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:23:00 -
[21]
i know lasers have ok-ish range, but i havent used them enough to be able to recall all the data without any help. thats why i said i THINK they dont come close...
anyway, can you please elaborate on
Originally by: Caldus Ailwon
Also, optimal is 33+. 24 km Falloff means you can land regular hits out to 45km or so
what you mean regular hits? afaik as long as youre outside 33km you WILL get reduced dmg, period. probably still better than a long range gun in optimal, i dont know, but im just asking what you mean with regular hits.
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:36:00 -
[22]
You forgot about drones too, 5 tech 2 medium drones add a fair bit of dps with max skills
==================================================
I should really get a sig. |
Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:38:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Zaerlorth Maelkor on 19/06/2008 14:38:52
Originally by: CryoHead
Originally by: Indy Boy
Sikrit 1000 dps raven setup
Will try as soon as I have the 120 bil required to fit it.
How about the 100 bil to buy the ship in the first place?
Edit: OMG You already have a state issue raven!!!!11ELEVEN
==================================================
I should really get a sig. |
Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
XIII Legio
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:45:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Indy Boy
Sikrit 1000 dps raven setup
I fly with heavy neuts in the hopes of fighting a ship like this one day. 
__________________________________________________
Sup brosef!
Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
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Ichiro Itaki
Rage For Order
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: d3vo
Edited by: d3vo on 19/06/2008 14:03:13
why use t1 ammo when you can use t2?
990dps raven
Except your optimal is 30km. You might as well use torps now.
♠ |
Sanzorz
EVEfan.dk
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Posted - 2008.06.19 14:51:00 -
[26]
I know myself Nightmare is one of them to hit 1k dps easily. Tachs with faction ammo works great that way, and it becomes a monster if you're arsed to spend money on the +5% large energy damage, +5% turret rof and +5% tracking implants. As it shield tanks, then it's easy to fill your low slots with 3 heatsinks and bbq anything in your wake. Tracking with tachs along with the implant and a single Tracking Computer is pure win :)
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Mary Anne
Belgica Optimus Serpensis
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Posted - 2008.06.19 15:25:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Mary Anne on 19/06/2008 15:25:43
If it is just for that *theoretical* maximum potential stuff:
A CNR can get up as high as 1,251 dps with drones, 7 Cruise Launchers, Faction ammo, one turret on 8th slot without any implants used. Thus these 1251 are not even the absolute maximum.
So - discussion over, you could if you had 60+ bill isk and get the stuff needed. On a more serious sidenote: around 916 dps are possible in a pure T2 fit on a CNR with 7 Cruise Launchers and some other stuff... this also without implants used.
---
then again besides all those numbers: actually playing the game is more fun than trying to calculate it ;)
--
You are reading a signature.
BRUCE rl photo shoot of the tight knit likeminded hardcore players
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.06.19 16:49:00 -
[28]
my brother could fly around in this if he bothered...
6x siege t2 whit navy ammo
mwd, 3x lse, 2x invul
3x bcu, dcu, pdu
3x extender rigs.
whit hes skills... it barely breaks 1k dps whit faction ammo (easyer whit rage ofc but u need painter friends :) )
----------------------------------
Fighting for Minmatar o7
Yes... this is my main.
Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Inertial
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.06.19 16:54:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Indy Boy
Sikrit 1000 dps raven setup
If you are going to be a EFT warrior, at least do it right.
we are recruiting!
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.19 17:53:00 -
[30]
As has been already said, you need stupid skills and fit to do 1000dps with long range weaponry.
A Torp Raven on the other hand, does massive amounts of damage, and doesn't need anything more than a T2 fit.
Which is nice.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Wayward Hero
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Posted - 2008.06.19 18:12:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Inertial
If you are going to be a EFT warrior, at least do it right.
EDIT: woops, if you use ESTAMEL BCUs (which I missed, because I am tired as hell), you get 26 more DPS.
Oh sweet jesus, 2750 DPS! Now that is a manly setup.
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Zakgram
Atomic Heroes
Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.06.19 19:18:00 -
[32]
Notice the State Issue though. Assuming you could get one, and then find the estamels... you deserve to be doing more than 3k dps!
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Epidemis
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Posted - 2008.06.19 20:32:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Epidemis on 19/06/2008 20:33:17
Originally by: Inertial
Edited by: Inertial on 19/06/2008 16:55:59
Originally by: Indy Boy
Sikrit 1000 dps raven setup
If you are going to be a EFT warrior, at least do it right.
EDIT: woops, if you use ESTAMEL BCUs (which I missed, because I am tired as hell), you get 26 more DPS.
3068 DPS
Estamels, implants and bay loading rig.. Note I couldnt really find the 5% torp dmg implant so it is possible to do more.
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Helen
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2008.06.19 20:54:00 -
[34]
No one else notice the OP only fits 2 bcs to a CNR?
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d3vo
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Posted - 2008.06.19 20:56:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Epidemis
Edited by: Epidemis on 19/06/2008 20:33:17
Originally by: Inertial
Edited by: Inertial on 19/06/2008 16:55:59
Originally by: Indy Boy
Sikrit 1000 dps raven setup
If you are going to be a EFT warrior, at least do it right.
EDIT: woops, if you use ESTAMEL BCUs (which I missed, because I am tired as hell), you get 26 more DPS.
3068 DPS
Estamels, implants and bay loading rig.. Note I couldnt really find the 5% torp dmg implant so it is possible to do more.
slot 6, zainou 'snapshot' zmt2000 5% torp damage
i got my state raven up to 3205 dps, 9363 volley!!
__________
-_- |
Siddy
Gay Nationalist Association of Amamake
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Posted - 2008.06.19 21:56:00 -
[36]
I achived 1000dps+ by screaming "Boost amarr" for 2 months.
-------------
T'ey see me t'Rollin,
t'ey hatin, pa'trolli.
T'ey trying catch me writing dirty... |
Yrdeno
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Posted - 2008.06.19 22:11:00 -
[37]
.
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Arkios Odymei
Incarnation of Evil
Nocturnal Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.19 22:12:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Siddy
I achived 1000dps+ by screaming "Boost amarr" for 2 months.
An easier was would have been just to fly an hp tanked Mega-Pulse Abbadon... But heyo, now EM damage is better against armor so the abba rocks even harder!
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Cale Nearing
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Posted - 2008.06.19 23:46:00 -
[39]
Thanks for the responses. I'll try running the numbers again with Torpedoes--not that I'm ever likely to actually use them. =/ (and no, the math really isn't that long or hard--those numbers took about ten minutes.)
As a side note, this sums me up pretty well--maybe I'll just forget about the DPS thing =)
Quote:
1000 dps is not possible in a cruise Raven (even a CNR). People don't fly Ravens/CNRs for the high DPS, they fly them because they're too lazy to think about transversal, optimal ranges, kiting, cap management, worrying about whether the targets are weak to their weapons, etc.
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Opertone
SIEGE.
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Posted - 2008.06.20 06:00:00 -
[40]
tbh, average torp raven DPS is around 800 if you fit the ship right
with up to a 500 mill isk investment you can push it to 1200 DPS, but it will not necessarily be cost effective.i.l;
i get 600 DPS on my mid-range skill torp raven, it is more than enough
as a potential collector i would like to get a display Navy Raven/Golem with thon's Siege launchers and kaikka's BCS... it might require 80 lvl 4 mission to compensate the costs.
I would rather spend that money on PVP and research, as i don;t see reason in pushing my DPS above 1000.
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Artemis Rose
Eleckrostatik
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Posted - 2008.06.20 07:29:00 -
[41]
EFT is more fun than EVE now?
__________________________________________________
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat. |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.20 08:19:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Opertone
tbh, average torp raven DPS is around 800 if you fit the ship right
with up to a 500 mill isk investment you can push it to 1200 DPS, but it will not necessarily be cost effective.i.l;
i get 600 DPS on my mid-range skill torp raven, it is more than enough
as a potential collector i would like to get a display Navy Raven/Golem with thon's Siege launchers and kaikka's BCS... it might require 80 lvl 4 mission to compensate the costs.
I would rather spend that money on PVP and research, as i don;t see reason in pushing my DPS above 1000.
By 'fit the ship right' you mean 3 BCS right? In which case, it's pretty trivial to clear 1000dps, with just a T2 fit (my 'standard' PvP fit clocks in at 1071). No 500mil investment needed.
I wouldn't say your 600 on your torp raven is enough - you can do 570 off a cruise raven, which would mean you're making a horrendous waste of your fitting space.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.20 08:24:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Artemis Rose
EFT is more fun than EVE now?
I can play EFT at work.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Aluka 7th
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Posted - 2008.06.20 08:44:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Aluka 7th on 20/06/2008 08:44:50
Regarding Amarr,
Abbadon hits 950dps (without any implants or mods) with 15km optimal.
Or 750dps with 45km optimal.
Drones add 190dps on that with my skills.
Also it has full tank, point, web... and its only t2/t1 fitted.
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Angelonico
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.06.20 09:53:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Sean Faust
1. Missiles are, by far, the lowest DPS weapons in the game.
Yes and no. Missiles always hit - and most quality missile ships can use any damage type. Sometimes it's not just how it works out on paper (EFT warrioring). Try out a siege raven with 2 target painters fit on a webbed target with 3 damage mods.
At the same time they have flight time to worry about - and can be smart bombed (even citadel torpedoes have to worry about friggin large smartbombs.)
Anyone complaining about the DPS output of a properly kit gank raven, sacrilege, or even a HAM drake needs to have their head examined.
Did I mention you also can fire while jammed and use 0% cap? Yeah.
Please no more caldari whining in this thread.
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Wu Jiun
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.20 09:55:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Aluka 7th
Edited by: Aluka 7th on 20/06/2008 08:44:50
Regarding Amarr,
Abbadon hits 950dps (without any implants or mods) with 15km optimal.
Or 750dps with 45km optimal.
Drones add 190dps on that with my skills.
Also it has full tank, point, web... and its only t2/t1 fitted.
Full tank -3 lows for heat sinks that would be. 
But yeah its awesome in its own ways. Just like a torp raven.
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Angelonico
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.06.20 09:55:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Angelonico on 20/06/2008 09:55:25
Originally by: Sean Faust
1. Missiles are, by far, the lowest DPS weapons in the game.
Yes and no. Missiles always hit - and most quality missile ships can use any damage type. Sometimes it's not just how it works out on paper (EFT warrioring). Try out a siege raven with 2 target painters fit on a webbed target with 3 damage mods.
Anyone complaining about the DPS output of a properly kit gank raven, sacrilege, or even a HAM drake needs to have their head examined.
Did I mention you also can fire while jammed and use 0% cap? Yeah.
Please no more caldari whining in this thread.
Edit - I didn't even mention the insane range of Caldari's "short range" bs weapon compared to blasters/AC/Mega Pulse.
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Gypsio III
Bambooule
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Posted - 2008.06.20 10:43:00 -
[48]
Quote:
Yes and no. Missiles always hit - and most quality missile ships can use any damage type. Sometimes it's not just how it works out on paper (EFT warrioring). Try out a siege raven with 2 target painters fit on a webbed target with 3 damage mods.
At the same time they have flight time to worry about - and can be smart bombed (even citadel torpedoes have to worry about friggin large smartbombs.)
Anyone complaining about the DPS output of a properly kit gank raven, sacrilege, or even a HAM drake needs to have their head examined.
Did I mention you also can fire while jammed and use 0% cap? Yeah.
Please no more caldari whining in this thread.
Yes, this is all very true. I particularly like the way my torps and HAMs "always hit" those 4 km/s nanoHACs. I also like firing FOF torps and FOF HAMs when jammed. 
Missiles are broadly fine though. Although Precision Heavies are useless.
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Aluka 7th
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Posted - 2008.06.20 10:54:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Wu Jiun
Originally by: Aluka 7th
Edited by: Aluka 7th on 20/06/2008 08:44:50
Regarding Amarr,
Abbadon hits 950dps (without any implants or mods) with 15km optimal.
Or 750dps with 45km optimal.
Drones add 190dps on that with my skills.
Also it has full tank, point, web... and its only t2/t1 fitted.
Full tank -3 lows for heat sinks that would be.
But yeah its awesome in its own ways. Just like a torp raven.
Ofc 3 damage mods, thats best way to reduce risk of capacitor overflow
Still it has 20k armor with 65-80% resists with large rep on :)
If i would mod it for gang then -> 3x trimark, Slaves and gang bonuses that I give lands me on 80k armor with 65-80% resist. Thats 300k effective while still keeping the same DPS :)
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Atsuko Ratu
VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2008.06.20 14:59:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 20/06/2008 15:01:38
Originally by: Sean Faust
1. Missiles are, by far, the lowest DPS weapons in the game.
Lol.
Originally by: Angelonico
Yes and no. Missiles always hit - and most quality missile ships can use any damage type. Sometimes it's not just how it works out on paper (EFT warrioring). Try out a siege raven with 2 target painters fit on a webbed target with 3 damage mods.
Anyone complaining about the DPS output of a properly kit gank raven, sacrilege, or even a HAM drake needs to have their head examined.
Did I mention you also can fire while jammed and use 0% cap? Yeah.
Please no more caldari whining in this thread.
Lol.
Because "properly fit gank ravens, sacrileges, and HAM drakes" can fire while jammed
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Atsuko Ratu
VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2008.06.20 15:08:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Angelonico
Edit - I didn't even mention the insane range of Caldari's "short range" bs weapon compared to blasters/AC/Mega Pulse.
Lol
Base range of Mega Pulse with multifreq: 15 + 10 = 25
Base range of Mega Pulse with Radio: 48 + 10 = 58
Base range of Neutron Blasters w/ antimatter: 4.5 + 13 = 17.5
Base range of Neutron Blasters with Null: 11 + 16 = 27
Base range of 800mm Repeating with EMP: 3 + 20 = 23
Base range of 800mm Repeating with Hail: 3 + 10 = 13
Base range of 800mm Repeating with Barrage: 6 + 30 = 36
Base range of Torps: 20 = 20
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.20 17:54:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 20/06/2008 15:15:32
Originally by: Angelonico
Edit - I didn't even mention the insane range of Caldari's "short range" bs weapon compared to blasters/AC/Mega Pulse.
Lol
Base range of Mega Pulse with multifreq: 15 + 10 = 25
Base range of Mega Pulse with Radio: 48 + 10 = 58
Base range of Neutron Blasters w/ antimatter: 4.5 + 13 = 17.5
Base range of Neutron Blasters with Null: 11 + 16 = 27
Base range of 800mm Repeating with EMP: 3 + 20 = 23
Base range of 800mm Repeating with Hail: 3 + 10 = 13
Base range of 800mm Repeating with Barrage: 6 + 30 = 36
Base range of Torps: 20 = 20
2.
DPS of one Raven-fitted T2 torp (with 3 dam mods, faction torp) at 30km: 158 (*6 = 948 from torps)
For Javelins, it'd be 116.1 DPS per launcher, so 696.6 DPS from torps out to 45km.
DPS of one neutron on Megathron (2 dam mods, faction AM) at 17.5km: 43.51 (*7 = 304.57 DPS from blasters)
(Base DPS at the 11km optimal of Null is 91.3 per gun, so 639.1 total. A bit under 243 at 27km.)
An interesting factoid: at Mega's 4.5km optimal it would be 114.5 per blaster, so total of 801.5 DPS.
Sieges on a Raven do about 20% more damage out to 30km than the blasters on Mega do at point-blank range using normal fits. Same tank (no web, though). Chew on that.
And no, someone in the fleet having to fit a painter does not balance that by a long shot, especially given the total vulnerability to TDs the Megathron enjoys.
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Gradient forum |
DARTHxFREE
Double Indemnity
Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2008.06.20 17:56:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 20/06/2008 15:15:32
Originally by: Angelonico
Edit - I didn't even mention the insane range of Caldari's "short range" bs weapon compared to blasters/AC/Mega Pulse.
Lol
Base range of Mega Pulse with multifreq: 15 + 10 = 25
Base range of Mega Pulse with Radio: 48 + 10 = 58
Base range of Neutron Blasters w/ antimatter: 4.5 + 13 = 17.5
Base range of Neutron Blasters with Null: 11 + 16 = 27
Base range of 800mm Repeating with EMP: 3 + 20 = 23
Base range of 800mm Repeating with Hail: 3 + 10 = 13
Base range of 800mm Repeating with Barrage: 6 + 30 = 36
Base range of Torps: 20 = 20
2.
The raven and kind the only real torp using shps have a range bonus, so 30km/45km ranges.
Optimium + falloff = 50% dps, you can't compare these numbers.
MegaT with Null is doing 666dps? at 27km, raven 1197 at 30km
/join Cheeze & Whine Club
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Captain Promethius
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Posted - 2008.06.20 18:13:00 -
[54]
If you want over 1K DPS get a Golem. With 100% bonus to cruise and torp damage and a few good skills I average 1150 Dps with standard cruise and more with faction ammo.
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kessah
Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.06.20 18:34:00 -
[55]
teh only wayz to achjeeves this is by black magicz0rs 
Seriously though its not hard to get it, your just using long range weapons which are **** poor dps platforms.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.06.20 19:21:00 -
[56]
Fully skilled typhoon can dish out that kind of damage too.
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Its dead, Jim.
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Po3tank
Hell's Rejects
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Posted - 2008.06.20 21:14:00 -
[57]
get a abbadon with 3x heatsinks and 8 megapulse with BS Lvl 5 and you should be good
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Atsuko Ratu
VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2008.06.20 22:06:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 20/06/2008 22:10:49
Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 20/06/2008 22:07:09
Originally by: DARTHxFREE
The raven and kind the only real torp using shps have a range bonus, so 30km/45km ranges.
Optimium + falloff = 50% dps, you can't compare these numbers.
MegaT with Null is doing 666dps? at 27km, raven 1197 at 30km
How can I not mention falloff? An entire race of ships almost sololy fights in falloff. You damage in those ranges, I do not damage past 28km in my raven, less if the target is moving away from me.
He merely mentioned the range, I never said they all had the exact same dps at the exact same range.
Some of us like diversity. I like how my raven doesn't do full damage to anything under a tier 3 BS without a target painter or 3. I like how my raven can't hit an afterburning BS for full damage, regardless if hes orbiting me or moving away/towards, let alone an mwding BS.
MegaT outdpses the raven at close range, HACKS! , look I can complain about dps differences to!
Also, the typhoon uses torps, and has the highest peak gank setup with t2. But, that's not a "real" torp using ship
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Atsuko Ratu
VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2008.06.20 22:24:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 20/06/2008 22:32:06
Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 20/06/2008 22:25:50
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
DPS of one Raven-fitted T2 torp (with 3 dam mods, faction torp) at 30km: 158 (*6 = 948 from torps)
For Javelins, it'd be 116.1 DPS per launcher, so 696.6 DPS from torps out to 45km.
DPS of one neutron on Megathron (2 dam mods, faction AM) at 17.5km: 43.51 (*7 = 304.57 DPS from blasters)
(Base DPS at the 11km optimal of Null is 91.3 per gun, so 639.1 total. A bit under 243 at 27km.)
An interesting factoid: at Mega's 4.5km optimal it would be 114.5 per blaster, so total of 801.5 DPS.
Don't forget you hit not only ravens, but other megaTs as well, for full damage right out of the box. Ravens? Not so much. And yes, it is a big deal, even in a "fleet". (I wouldn't be using torps in a "fleet" anyway, lol?)
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Sieges on a Raven do about 20% more damage out to 30km than the blasters on Mega do at point-blank range using normal fits. Same tank (no web, though). Chew on that.
You can not include a ship's bonuses and not their drones. Drones are there to balance DPS or to give a less advantaged ship an advantage.
I outdps your guns, great, to bad you do more DPS than me. If you give me 5 heavies, you can gimp my dps or range to make the game more linear, if it will help you sleep at night.
Only 2 damage mods while the raven gets 3? Sorry, if I have to gimp my tank to fit a target painter, you can gimp it enough to fit 3 damage mods.
Even if you pretend I will won't have an MWD, I will need a point and a TP. That leaves me with 4 tank slots. With 3 damage mods, that leaves you with 4. Sorry, I get the DCU? You get an injector, and an mwd.
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.21 10:52:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Sieges on a Raven do about 20% more damage out to 30km than the blasters on Mega do at point-blank range using normal fits. Same tank (no web, though). Chew on that.
You can not include a ship's bonuses and not their drones. Drones are there to balance DPS or to give a less advantaged ship an advantage.
I outdps your guns, great, to bad you do more DPS than me. If you give me 5 heavies, you can gimp my dps or range to make the game more linear, if it will help you sleep at night.
Fine. Mega with 5*Ogre2, 7*neutron with faction AM, assault missile launcher with navy missiles: 1162 DPS. With overloaded guns 1287 DPS.
Raven with 2*Ogre2, 2*Hammerhead2, Hobgoblin2, 6*siege2 with faction torps, 2*425mm AC with barrage: 1176 DPS. With overloaded launchers 1336 DPS.
Happy now?
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Only 2 damage mods while the raven gets 3? Sorry, if I have to gimp my tank to fit a target painter, you can gimp it enough to fit 3 damage mods.
You don't. Someone in your gang has to fit a target painter. And, well, with the third damage mod, Mega gets 1265 DPS (1406 overloaded). Now then, would I like to lose 7% damage to get about triple effective range and 15% more EHP? Yes, yes I would, thank you.
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Even if you pretend I will won't have an MWD, I will need a point and a TP. That leaves me with 4 tank slots. With 3 damage mods, that leaves you with 4. Sorry, I get the DCU? You get an injector, and an mwd.
I'd very much like to say "learn to fit your ships" here, but that would probably not be productive. You need to have a point and MWD, always. If you want to fit a TP or web, you will have similar tank to a Mega that fits three dam mods.
Yes, Mega can fit an injector. Given that it runs out of cap just running its guns, it's hardly a major advantage compared to Raven.
And I notice you didn't comment on Mega's complete vulnerability to TDs.
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Gradient forum |
A Spy
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Posted - 2008.06.21 10:59:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Captain Promethius
If you want over 1K DPS get a Golem. With 100% bonus to cruise and torp damage and a few good skills I average 1150 Dps with standard cruise and more with faction ammo.
Pff that's nothing, i can do 1200 dps in my thorax
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Chris Liath
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Posted - 2008.06.21 11:04:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Chris Liath on 21/06/2008 11:04:40
7x T2 Neutron Blaster Cannons.
2x T2 Magnetic Field Stabilizer.
5x T2 Ogres.
1x T1 Megathron.
???? DPS.
Profit.
Provided of course, that MWDs work in deadspace ............................
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.06.21 11:33:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Also, the typhoon uses torps, and has the highest peak gank setup with t2. But, that's not a "real" torp using ship
I like mine a lot, but its very close range, unlike Raven.
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Its dead, Jim.
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Crellion
Art of War
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2008.06.21 11:43:00 -
[64]
Originally by: A Spy
Originally by: Captain Promethius
If you want over 1K DPS get a Golem. With 100% bonus to cruise and torp damage and a few good skills I average 1150 Dps with standard cruise and more with faction ammo.
Pff that's nothing, i can do 1200 dps in my thorax
I can also web at 40kms in a Thorax with Gabriel modified web and 3 Jack Sparrow modified rcus to fit it.... NERF
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Angelonico
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.06.21 12:32:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Angelonico on 21/06/2008 12:32:36
Originally by: Gypsio III
Yes, this is all very true. I particularly like the way my torps and HAMs "always hit" those 4 km/s nanoHACs. I also like firing FOF torps and FOF HAMs when jammed.
Missiles are broadly fine though. Although Precision Heavies are useless.
Turrets can't hit those things either. They have to deal with the same problem you do - web/neut them somehow (a raven can easily squeeze in 2 heavy neuts in it's highs) and then you're in business.
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Cale Nearing
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Posted - 2008.06.21 12:49:00 -
[66]
Quote:
If you want over 1K DPS get a Golem. With 100% bonus to cruise and torp damage and a few good skills I average 1150 Dps with standard cruise and more with faction ammo
Even with the damage bonus, a Golem has exactly the same DPS as a regular old Raven for any given set of ammo and skills--and a Navy Raven has more. Golems are certainly not the answer.
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Setana Manoro
Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.21 13:13:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 21/06/2008 13:16:02
Originally by: Sean Faust
1. Missiles are, by far, the lowest DPS weapons in the game.
2. To get their DPS numbers, people use a program called EFT (Eve Fitting Tool) that calculates the DPS based on your skills and also has a skill template that assumes all skills are at 5. EFT isnt entirely accurate, however, and can be "optimistic."
3. Any time you see a raven fit that claims to break 1000 DPS, it was factored using torpedoes, which have MUCH higher dps than cruise missiles. Each weapon type is divided into two subcategories: a short range, high DPS weapon and a long range, low DPS weapon. In the case of large missiles, cruise are the long range, low DPS ones.
1 - no, you are wrong. Stop flying passive drakes.
2 - Nothing wrong with doing the math yourself, and EFT when it comes to missiles calculates DPS more accurately than with guns. That's because even with perfect skills, no moving and target in range, chance is still factored in gun calculations.
3 - Raven does 1250 dps with torps.
Originally by: Captain Promethius
If you want over 1K DPS get a Golem. With 100% bonus to cruise and torp damage and a few good skills I average 1150 Dps with standard cruise and more with faction ammo.
Golem fitted with all CN has less DPS than CNR fitted all T2.
What the Golem has going for it, is the salvaging bonus and the 1000-1100 DPS tank that doesn't require Crystals.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.21 13:17:00 -
[68]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 21/06/2008 13:19:07
Originally by: Angelonico
Edited by: Angelonico on 21/06/2008 12:32:36
Originally by: Gypsio III
Yes, this is all very true. I particularly like the way my torps and HAMs "always hit" those 4 km/s nanoHACs. I also like firing FOF torps and FOF HAMs when jammed.
Missiles are broadly fine though. Although Precision Heavies are useless.
Turrets can't hit those things either. They have to deal with the same problem you do - web/neut them somehow (a raven can easily squeeze in 2 heavy neuts in it's highs) and then you're in business.
Turrets can though - a nanoship can only orbit one thing at a time. And no, you don't get two heavy neuts on a torp raven. Cruise might work, but then you're not talking 1000dps ships any more ;)
Edit: Not that I'm saying this needs changing, merely wanting to point out there's pros and cons to either.
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Atsuko Ratu
VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2008.06.21 16:10:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 21/06/2008 16:11:10
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Fine. Mega with 5*Ogre2, 7*neutron with faction AM, assault missile launcher with navy missiles: 1162 DPS. With overloaded guns 1287 DPS.
Raven with 2*Ogre2, 2*Hammerhead2, Hobgoblin2, 6*siege2 with faction torps, 2*425mm AC with barrage: 1176 DPS. With overloaded launchers 1336 DPS.
Happy now?
Again, 3 damage mods, not 2.
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
You don't. Someone in your gang has to fit a target painter. And, well, with the third damage mod, Mega gets 1265 DPS (1406 overloaded). Now then, would I like to lose 7% damage to get about triple effective range and 15% more EHP? Yes, yes I would, thank you.
I have to fit a TP to get anywhere near your estimated raven torp DPS unless someone in my gang happens to bring one. You get 50% in falloff? Oh noes, I do 50% to a typhoon 
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
I'd very much like to say "learn to fit your ships" here, but that would probably not be productive. You need to have a point and MWD, always. If you want to fit a TP or web, you will have similar tank to a Mega that fits three dam mods.
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Even if you pretend I will won't have an MWD.
Reading helps
Ok, I have 3 slots for a tank. I was trying to be generous
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Yes, Mega can fit an injector. Given that it runs out of cap just running its guns, it's hardly a major advantage compared to Raven.
Because +50 cap a second isn't a "major advantage" if I fit an injector, I now have 2 slots left for tank, never mind a sensor booster or ECCM 
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
And I notice you didn't comment on Mega's complete vulnerability to TDs.
You said we have gang members that counter any ewar problem. Therefor, the target TDing you is ECMed.
You do more damage while jammed (drones), you do more damage out to 66km (drones), you do more damage at point blank range (guns and drones). The mega can RR more effectively in a mixed gang, is faster, can for hit for 100% down to 400 as opposed to 450..
Raven has a slightly higher buffer, less dps with some more range, does more damage from 10-45km, free damage choice, most setups don't need the cap injector, so more room to ninja loot...
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Atsuko Ratu
VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2008.06.21 16:11:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Also, the typhoon uses torps, and has the highest peak gank setup with t2. But, that's not a "real" torp using ship
I like mine a lot, but its very close range, unlike Raven.
10km difference, when 6 of those kilometers is outside point range, is not a big deal.
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Gwendion
Bladed Moon
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.06.21 20:20:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Indy Boy
Sikrit 1000 dps raven setup
Dude, you even Fail at EFT Whoring!! :P
Power Diags? Use Capacitor Power Relays, get that cap up. Even with theoretical setups you suck :P
-----------------------------------
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2008.06.21 21:00:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Durzel
Running some numbers it seems the laser boats (Nightmare, Paladin, etc) are the way to go for insane DPS, but they suffer from the age-old problem of actually having to be at the keyboard to complete missions because you'll have to get into range and keep an eye on transversal. What a grind!
Transversal is not a worry on my 'Mare/Mach setups... With an armor tank (since missions don't rely on speed), AB & 2 tracking comps they can peg orbiting cruisers easily using their close range weapons of choice.
With an Onerios tagging along, they can do this to fast orbiting frigates without typically needing a web for anything but those really fast orbiting NPCs. And they can reach out very respectable distances with their short range guns (just depends on the script used).
While they don't beat 1000 DPS, they come darn close (785 'mare, 730 Mach) while still supporting a very stable low tank.
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EinaruS
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.06.21 21:12:00 -
[73]
EFT warriors are a blight on this game
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A finger...especially the middle one, is worth more than any amount of isk |
Pax Empyrean
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Posted - 2008.06.21 22:39:00 -
[74]
Originally by: EinaruS
EFT warriors are a blight on this game
You mean a blight on their own desktop, right? They're not really in the game so much. :)
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Angelonico
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.06.22 10:50:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Angelonico on 22/06/2008 10:50:38
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Because "properly fit gank ravens, sacrileges, and HAM drakes" can fire while jammed [
Those aren't the only missile ships in the game, and some ravens still use cruise (though why is beyond me.) That said, at least missile boats have the option - however rarely used - to fit FOF. You are correct in your basic point, that "gank" fit specialty ships (ham drake, sac, torp raven) can be jammed just as any other ship - however they are completely immune to tracking disruption, have no falloff to worry about, and hit pretty f'ing hard with by FAR the best range of any short range weaponry. missiles are fine as is with the slight exception of heavy precisions needing a explosion velocity buff.
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