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Comprehensive AF Proposal - Unique, Fun, Balanced

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VJ Maverick Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.06.19 20:10:00 - [1] Edited by: VJ Maverick on 19/06/2008 20:18:59 The AF Concept û The Dogfighter The Assaulf Frigate is a dogfighter. Frigates have traditionally emphasized small size, speed and maneuverability. Tank and firepower were always secondary considerations. Unfortunately until now, frigates have only been able to use their small size, speed and maneuverability to escape. The widespread use of webs has put an end to any notion of frigates actually using these attributes in combat. This is where the Assault Frigate comes in. The assault frigate is, by CCPÆs own design intent, a combat frigate. Thus, its unique advantage should be the ability to use the frigateÆs primary advantages û its size, speed, and maneuverability, in close-range (web-range) combat. This would make the assault frigate a true dogfighter. Implementing the Dogfighter concept. To effectuate the AFÆs unique role as a dogfighter, I propose the following: 1.Assault Ship Skill Bonus 1: 10% bonus to AB speed increase per level 2.Assault Ship Skill Bonus 2: 20% web immunity per level. 3.Standard T2 resistances. 4.Standard T2 slot layouts 5.Retain mass from T1 hull 6.Retain bonuses from T1 hull. These attributes would allow the AF to truly perform as a dog fighting combat frigate, able to engage at close range and use its maneuverability and speed as its tank. Balancing the Dogfighter Concept The following sa***uards are in place to prevent this ship from becoming overpowered. ItÆs still just a frigate û with frigate DPS û no additional T2 damage bonuses are contemplated in this proposal.Yes, this thing will shred T1 frigates, as it should. Yes, this ship will give a hell of a fight to T1 cruisers. And given the cost and the skill requirements, it should be able to do that. No, this ship is not a singular threat to HAC/BC/BS because of the low damage output. Yes, a SWARM of these ships is a threat to the above, as it SHOULD be, but one is not powerful enough. The ship is not uncatchable- The dogfighter is designed to be very slippery, not very fast. The use of an AB limits this ship to speeds in the range of 2km/s. It will not be hard to catch. It will just be very hard to hit. It is still vulnerable to missiles, drones, and other small ships, as well as ships that are faster than it. True web immunity requires Assault Ship 5. A pilot with assault ships trained to 4 only has 80% web immunity. Multiple webs will turn his ship into a flying coffin. This skill investment means that only true AF specialists will benefit from this ship's most powerful abilities. There you have it, folks. Flame on! Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
Zirconium Blade Ass Pounding Space Monkeys	Posted - 2008.06.19 20:12:00 - [2] Alpha
VJ Maverick Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.06.20 02:49:00 - [3] Originally by: Zirconium Blade Alpha That's very nice but what do you think about the Dogfighter concept? Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
Valandril Exiled. Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.06.20 02:51:00 - [4] Edited by: Valandril on 20/06/2008 02:52:15 Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Zirconium Blade Alpha That's very nice but what do you think about the Dogfighter concept? That you should spell it alpha ;p On another point, where came that hype about afs beeing immune to webs ? Coz 100% immunity should NEVER happend, i would say that 50-60% is max that is doable before beeing imbalanced. And then, hacs wanna buff too, coz afs will be able to solo bs. + It can be abused with 10mn abs + tank to get unbeatable camprunner. ---
VJ Maverick Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.06.20 02:56:00 - [5] Originally by: Valandril On another point, where came that hype about afs beeing immune to webs ? Coz 100% immunity should NEVER happend, i would say that 50-60% is max that is doable before beeing imbalanced. And then, hacs wanna buff too, coz afs will be able to solo bs. + It can be abused with 10mn abs + tank to get unbeatable camprunner. Well, the web immunity is the special role. And it's only achievable at Assault Ship 5. And I specifically said AF's will not be able to solo BS's because of their frigate level DPS. Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
Valandril Exiled. Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.06.20 02:59:00 - [6] Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Valandril On another point, where came that hype about afs beeing immune to webs ? Coz 100% immunity should NEVER happend, i would say that 50-60% is max that is doable before beeing imbalanced. And then, hacs wanna buff too, coz afs will be able to solo bs. + It can be abused with 10mn abs + tank to get unbeatable camprunner. Well, the web immunity is the special role. And it's only achievable at Assault Ship 5. And I specifically said AF's will not be able to solo BS's because of their frigate level DPS. Belive me, if you will take down ability for them to get webbed (ergo get hit) then they WILL solo bses, ppl will find a way to exploit it. ---
VJ Maverick Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.06.20 03:03:00 - [7] OK. Lets go with that. How can ~100dps be exploited to kill a BS? Maybe a noob flying "Fisher Price's My First Battleship" but not a normal BS. Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
VJ Maverick Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.06.20 03:05:00 - [8] Besides, drones, missiles and other small ships are still a substantial threat to what is essentially a very slippery T1 frig. Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
Valandril Exiled. Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.06.20 03:06:00 - [9] Catching him in a belt while hes pounding 3 heavy rats, then this ABOVE 100dps will matter, + he will not be able to take him down. So i would say this idea is ok, but nerf this bonus to 60% max. ---
VJ Maverick Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.06.20 03:09:00 - [10] Originally by: Valandril Catching him in a belt while hes pounding 3 heavy rats, then this ABOVE 100dps will matter, + he will not be able to take him down. drones, neuts, etc can still fight off this ship. Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
Typhado3 Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium	Posted - 2008.06.20 03:59:00 - [11] umm what's to stop someone from fitting a mwd on this ship and then having a unwebable mwd ship.... I'd assume mwd negates web immunity bonus. huggin and friends: total web immunity is gonna be bad for them as af's are probably also strong enough to give a tough fight to a huggin and kill a rapier/hyena easy. So how bout partial web immunity say 90%... the problem I see with this is how it's gonna be calculated if done wrong it will mean the gallente/amarr marauder is the new webber which would be pretty much be the last straw for minmatar support pilots.
VJ Maverick Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.06.20 04:14:00 - [12] Originally by: Typhado3 umm what's to stop someone from fitting a mwd on this ship and then having a unwebable mwd ship.... I'd assume mwd negates web immunity bonus. huggin and friends: total web immunity is gonna be bad for them as af's are probably also strong enough to give a tough fight to a huggin and kill a rapier/hyena easy. So how bout partial web immunity say 90%... the problem I see with this is how it's gonna be calculated if done wrong it will mean the gallente/amarr marauder is the new webber which would be pretty much be the last straw for minmatar support pilots. ONE ship class with web immunity is not the last straw for minmatar support pilots. Not everyone is all of a sudden going to train Assault Ship to 5 and become a dedicated AF pilot. But those that do will fill a niche role as true small ship combat specialists and one thing that Rapier/Hugginn pilots would fear. Besides, a MWD Rapier or Huginn is still significantly faster than an AB AF - so they'd just have to run. The MWD issue is valid. Perhaps, the ship would be tweaked in such a way as to render the installation of a MWD impractical, difficult, or downright impossible. Or have the speed and web immunity bonuses contingent on fitting an AB. Perhaps a specialized AB module that only AF's would be able to fit? Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
Aidan Ordway The Reappropriation Committee	Posted - 2008.06.20 05:44:00 - [13] Edited by: Aidan Ordway on 20/06/2008 05:46:52 Edited by: Aidan Ordway on 20/06/2008 05:45:33 Role Bonuses: Due to the complexity of an Assault Ship's weapon and computer systems, they are unable to handle the draw required from a Micro-Warp Drive and thus are limited to Afterburners. However, to compensate for this flaw, an experimental line of Afterburners has been developed to fill in this requirement for speed, granting a superior bonus to that of even Tech II Afterburners. Also, due to these complicated systems these experimental Afterburners utilize, modern webbing devices are not as effective against them as they are against publicly released versions. For each level of Assault Frigate, the strength of a webber is reduced by 10%, to a total of 50%, enabling these nimble frigates to retain some of their speed. These new ABs will be just like Covert Ops cloaking devices. -99% powergrid or CPU or w/e reduction for AS only to use these, and have them be absurd so no other ships can use them. :P EDIT: Darn, VJ Maverick beat me to it. But still, a nice idea to fix the presented issues, no? And considering as far as I know, Tech II ABs give a 150% increase (Correct me of I'm wrong), these would give approximately 175% to 225% increase. I'm not sure how much of an increase a MWD gives, but it should be a decent half-way point between the two, I think. Maybe a little less than half-way.
VJ Maverick Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.06.20 06:06:00 - [14] Originally by: Aidan Ordway Edited by: Aidan Ordway on 20/06/2008 05:46:52 Edited by: Aidan Ordway on 20/06/2008 05:45:33 Role Bonuses: Due to the complexity of an Assault Ship's weapon and computer systems, they are unable to handle the draw required from a Micro-Warp Drive and thus are limited to Afterburners. However, to compensate for this flaw, an experimental line of Afterburners has been developed to fill in this requirement for speed, granting a superior bonus to that of even Tech II Afterburners. Also, due to these complicated systems these experimental Afterburners utilize, modern webbing devices are not as effective against them as they are against publicly released versions. For each level of Assault Frigate, the strength of a webber is reduced by 10%, to a total of 50%, enabling these nimble frigates to retain some of their speed. These new ABs will be just like Covert Ops cloaking devices. -99% powergrid or CPU or w/e reduction for AS only to use these, and have them be absurd so no other ships can use them. :P EDIT: Darn, VJ Maverick beat me to it. But still, a nice idea to fix the presented issues, no? And considering as far as I know, Tech II ABs give a 150% increase (Correct me of I'm wrong), these would give approximately 175% to 225% increase. I'm not sure how much of an increase a MWD gives, but it should be a decent half-way point between the two, I think. Maybe a little less than half-way. I like your development of my idea. I still think that 100% web immunity at Level 5 is the way to go since, as per my proposal, these ships are basically T1 frigs built for all-out close range combat. T1 frig damage. Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
Aidan Ordway The Reappropriation Committee	Posted - 2008.06.20 06:09:00 - [15] Edited by: Aidan Ordway on 20/06/2008 06:12:52 Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Aidan Ordway Edited by: Aidan Ordway on 20/06/2008 05:46:52 Edited by: Aidan Ordway on 20/06/2008 05:45:33 Role Bonuses: Due to the complexity of an Assault Ship's weapon and computer systems, they are unable to handle the draw required from a Micro-Warp Drive and thus are limited to Afterburners. However, to compensate for this flaw, an experimental line of Afterburners has been developed to fill in this requirement for speed, granting a superior bonus to that of even Tech II Afterburners. Also, due to these complicated systems these experimental Afterburners utilize, modern webbing devices are not as effective against them as they are against publicly released versions. For each level of Assault Frigate, the strength of a webber is reduced by 10%, to a total of 50%, enabling these nimble frigates to retain some of their speed. These new ABs will be just like Covert Ops cloaking devices. -99% powergrid or CPU or w/e reduction for AS only to use these, and have them be absurd so no other ships can use them. :P EDIT: Darn, VJ Maverick beat me to it. But still, a nice idea to fix the presented issues, no? And considering as far as I know, Tech II ABs give a 150% increase (Correct me of I'm wrong), these would give approximately 175% to 225% increase. I'm not sure how much of an increase a MWD gives, but it should be a decent half-way point between the two, I think. Maybe a little less than half-way. I like your development of my idea. I still think that 100% web immunity at Level 5 is the way to go since, as per my proposal, these ships are basically T1 frigs built for all-out close range combat. T1 frig damage. What I think you should do is build a Tech II Frig (Seeing as I can't :P) and see how fast you can get it with a mere Afterburner II, and calculate how fast it could go with 15-25% more. Now compare that to say.. the tracking of a battleship, and see if they could track it. My idea pretty much states that if you have a webber that reduces speed by 95%, the role bonus of an AF would allow that to only reduce it by 45% at most, still giving it a hefty speed vs bigger targets, but still having them have to be careful. Dogfighting is all about being smart. EDIT: Also.. wouldn't this make more sense as an Interceptor's bonus instead? Or giving them something similar because their main purpose is to tackle ships and not DPS as much as far as I know. While AF are more heavy assault ships rather than pure dogfighters.
VJ Maverick Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.06.20 06:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Aidan Ordway Edited by: Aidan Ordway on 20/06/2008 06:12:52 Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Aidan Ordway Edited by: Aidan Ordway on 20/06/2008 05:46:52 Edited by: Aidan Ordway on 20/06/2008 05:45:33 Role Bonuses: Due to the complexity of an Assault Ship's weapon and computer systems, they are unable to handle the draw required from a Micro-Warp Drive and thus are limited to Afterburners. However, to compensate for this flaw, an experimental line of Afterburners has been developed to fill in this requirement for speed, granting a superior bonus to that of even Tech II Afterburners. Also, due to these complicated systems these experimental Afterburners utilize, modern webbing devices are not as effective against them as they are against publicly released versions. For each level of Assault Frigate, the strength of a webber is reduced by 10%, to a total of 50%, enabling these nimble frigates to retain some of their speed. These new ABs will be just like Covert Ops cloaking devices. -99% powergrid or CPU or w/e reduction for AS only to use these, and have them be absurd so no other ships can use them. :P EDIT: Darn, VJ Maverick beat me to it. But still, a nice idea to fix the presented issues, no? And considering as far as I know, Tech II ABs give a 150% increase (Correct me of I'm wrong), these would give approximately 175% to 225% increase. I'm not sure how much of an increase a MWD gives, but it should be a decent half-way point between the two, I think. Maybe a little less than half-way. I like your development of my idea. I still think that 100% web immunity at Level 5 is the way to go since, as per my proposal, these ships are basically T1 frigs built for all-out close range combat. T1 frig damage. What I think you should do is build a Tech II Frig (Seeing as I can't :P) and see how fast you can get it with a mere Afterburner II, and calculate how fast it could go with 15-25% more. Now compare that to say.. the tracking of a battleship, and see if they could track it. My idea pretty much states that if you have a webber that reduces speed by 95%, the role bonus of an AF would allow that to only reduce it by 45% at most, still giving it a hefty speed vs bigger targets, but still having them have to be careful. Dogfighting is all about being smart. EDIT: Also.. wouldn't this make more sense as an Interceptor's bonus instead? Or giving them something similar because their main purpose is to tackle ships and not DPS as much as far as I know. While AF are more heavy assault ships rather than pure dogfighters. I have a full T2 fit Jaguar with AB II, one OD II and maxed out navigation skills. It can hit around 1100 m/s with no implants. As far as this fits into the scheme of other specialized frigates such as interceptors, i think it's complementary role. Interceptors tackle by disrupting the warp drive of the target ship. AF's are the ones that actually go into the fight. Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
Aidan Ordway The Reappropriation Committee	Posted - 2008.06.20 06:22:00 - [17] Originally by: VJ Maverick I have a full T2 fit Jaguar with AB II, one OD II and maxed out navigation skills. It can hit around 1100 m/s with no implants. As far as this fits into the scheme of other specialized frigates such as interceptors, i think it's complementary role. Interceptors tackle by disrupting the warp drive of the target ship. AF's are the ones that actually go into the fight. Hrm. Now add 25% to that, and then reduce it by 45% and see what it comes up with. If necessary, you could always have it reduce the affects by 12%, having it reduce a ship's speed only by 35%. I just feel that 100% is a bit too much, but nearing half or more would be more acceptable.
VJ Maverick Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.06.20 06:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Aidan Ordway I just feel that 100% is a bit too much, but nearing half or more would be more acceptable. That's the thing. I don't think its to much for a ship putting out T1 frig level DPS. This ship will not be able to solo a BS. Five or six of them could do it - and I think that's fair. Large ships should be vulnerable to wolfpacks of small, fast attack craft. Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
VJ Maverick Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.06.20 06:33:00 - [19] Tho whole idea of frigate based combat is speed, size, and maneuverability. The prevalence of webs have essentially made frigate combat in EvE impossible. The AF dogfighter concept rectifies that. Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
Aidan Ordway The Reappropriation Committee	Posted - 2008.06.20 06:48:00 - [20] Basing this off the values of your frigate: Base speed: 733 m/s AB speed: 1100 m/s MWD speed: 4031 m/s Specialty AF AB speed 225%: 1649 m/s Webber -95% AB Speed: 55 m/s MWD speed: 201 m/s Specialty AF AB speed -45%: 906 m/s Specialty AF AB speed -35%: 1116 m/s Looking at these numbers, reducing the amount taken from a webber by 50% would still allow a frigate to be flying at a reasonable speed. And I'm trying to have this be a role bonus so they keep their current bonuses.
VJ Maverick Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.06.20 07:10:00 - [21] Originally by: Aidan Ordway Basing this off the values of your frigate: Base speed: 733 m/s AB speed: 1100 m/s MWD speed: 4031 m/s Specialty AF AB speed 225%: 1649 m/s Webber -95% AB Speed: 55 m/s MWD speed: 201 m/s Specialty AF AB speed -45%: 906 m/s Specialty AF AB speed -35%: 1116 m/s Looking at these numbers, reducing the amount taken from a webber by 50% would still allow a frigate to be flying at a reasonable speed. And I'm trying to have this be a role bonus so they keep their current bonuses. Oh man, please show your work. I'm not following your math. First off, my base speed is only around 490 or so. With the AB on, it is around 1100. MWD speed of 4000 is not attainable because of the ship's large mass. But, lets say that with the 225% AB bonus, this ship will hit around 1560. (480 + 225%(480)) Apply 90% web. Speed = 156. Reduce Web effectiveness by 50% (another AF role bonus) thus making it a 45% web. Apply 45% web to 1560 = 858. That's actually not too bad. Very reasonable. Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
Draahk Chimera Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.06.20 08:16:00 - [22] I like it! To quiet the concerns about people strapping a mwd on and being unwebbable at mwd speed rather then ab speed why not just a negative bonus? Like the destroyer ROF penalty? Like this: Frig bonus 1: Drone bay or gun tracking or gun optimal or missile velocity Frig bonus 2: Drone damage/hitpoints or gun damage or gun rof or missile damage AF bonus 1: 10% increase in Afterburner speed efficency per level AF bonus 2: 20% reduction in webbed speed penalty per level Penalty: -100% speed bonus from MicroWarpDrive.
Aidan Ordway The Reappropriation Committee	Posted - 2008.06.20 09:05:00 - [23] Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Aidan Ordway Basing this off the values of your frigate: Base speed: 733 m/s AB speed (Base + 150%): 1100 m/s MWD speed (Base + 550%): 4031 m/s Specialty AF AB speed (Base + 225%): 1649 m/s Webber -95% AB Speed (AB speed -95%): 55 m/s MWD speed (MWD speed -95%): 201 m/s Specialty AF AB speed (AF AB speed -45% [10% per level reduction bonus]): 906 m/s Specialty AF AB speed (AF AB speed -35% [12% per level reduction bonus]): 1116 m/s Looking at these numbers, reducing the amount taken from a webber by 50% would still allow a frigate to be flying at a reasonable speed. And I'm trying to have this be a role bonus so they keep their current bonuses. Oh man, please show your work. I'm not following your math. First off, my base speed is only around 490 or so. With the AB on, it is around 1100. MWD speed of 4000 is not attainable because of the ship's large mass. But, lets say that with the 225% AB bonus, this ship will hit around 1560. (480 + 225%(480)) Apply 90% web. Speed = 156. Reduce Web effectiveness by 50% (another AF role bonus) thus making it a 45% web. Apply 45% web to 1560 = 858. That's actually not too bad. Very reasonable. I had forgotten to take the OD into account, so I was going off of the 150% increase of an AB II and calculated what I thought your base speed was compared to 1100. I've edited the quote a bit to hopefully help clarify things a bit.
Draahk Chimera Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.06.20 09:14:00 - [24] Im bored so here goes a full list of what I had in mind: Keep current slot layot, reduce their weight to 10.000 kg or so below their t1 hull and make the bonuses like so: Jaguar: Minmatar frig bonus 1: 7.5% bonus to small projectile turret tracking per level Minmatar frig bonus 2: 5% bonus to small projectile turret rate of fire per level AF bonus 1: 10% increase in Afterburner speed efficency per level AF bonus 2: 20% reduction in webbed speed penalty per level Penalty: -100% speed bonus from MicroWarpDrive. Wolf: Minmatar frig bonus 1: 10% bonus to small projectile turret optimal range per level Minmatar frig bonus 2: 5% bonus to small projectile turret damage per level AF bonus 1: 10% increase in Afterburner speed efficency per level AF bonus 2: 20% reduction in webbed speed penalty per level Penalty: -100% speed bonus from MicroWarpDrive. Retribution: Amarr frig bonus 1: 10% reduction in small energy turret cap use per level Amarr frig bonus 2: 5% bonus to small energy turret damage per level AF bonus 1: 10% increase in Afterburner speed efficency per level AF bonus 2: 20% reduction in webbed speed penalty per level Penalty: -100% speed bonus from MicroWarpDrive. *Note on retri, move a low to a med slot, its a frig ffs, it needs a scram!* Vengeance: Amarr frig bonus 1: 5% bonus to rocket damage per level Amarr frig bonus 2: 5% bonus capacitor recharge time per level AF bonus 1: 10% increase in Afterburner speed efficency per level AF bonus 2: 20% reduction in webbed speed penalty per level Penalty: -100% speed bonus from MicroWarpDrive. Enyo: Gallente frig bonus 1: 7.5% bonus to small hybrid turret tracking per level Gallente frig bonus 2: 5% bonus to small hybrid turret damage per level AF bonus 1: 10% increase in Afterburner speed efficency per level AF bonus 2: 20% reduction in webbed speed penalty per level Penalty: -100% speed bonus from MicroWarpDrive. Ishkur: Gallente frig bonus 1: 5 m3 bonus to drone bay per level (base drone bay 50 m3) Gallente frig bonus 2: 10% bonus to drone damage/hitpoints/repair amount/mining yeald per level AF bonus 1: 10% increase in Afterburner speed efficency per level AF bonus 2: 20% reduction in webbed speed penalty per level Penalty: -100% speed bonus from MicroWarpDrive. Harpy: Caldari frig bonus 1: 15% bonus to small hybrid turret optimal range per level Caldari frig bonus 2: 5% bonus to small hybrid turret tracking per level AF bonus 1: 10% increase in Afterburner speed efficency per level AF bonus 2: 20% reduction in webbed speed penalty per level Penalty: -100% speed bonus from MicroWarpDrive. Hawk: Caldari frig bonus 1: 5% bonus to light missile and rocket velocity per level Caldari frig bonus 2: 5% bonus to light missile and rocket kinetic damage per level AF bonus 1: 10% increase in Afterburner speed efficency per level AF bonus 2: 20% reduction in webbed speed penalty per level Penalty: -100% speed bonus from MicroWarpDrive.
the thorn Tres Viri	Posted - 2008.06.20 09:21:00 - [25] how about giving them a bonus like: - 15% less heat from all modules except MWDs per level AS
Draahk Chimera Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.06.20 09:21:00 - [26] Hi, its me again. I did a mock-up of a jaguar fit. 3 OD II, 2 polys and a Gistii A-Type AB (to emulate the effect of the AB bonus would have on a t2): 1931 m/s. Yes, I have maxed skills. With plants that would be something like 2400-ish. A rapier usually goes about 5-6000 so no "instant death of the rapier".
Aidan Ordway The Reappropriation Committee	Posted - 2008.06.20 09:28:00 - [27] I personally think that the 50% webber bonus, inability to fit a microwarp drive, and the boost to Afterburners should be a role bonus rather than simply replace their current bonuses. Replacing their current bonuses will significantly nerf these ships and their viability for PvE and PvP. However, if they are given a role bonus that allows people to be more versitile with their fittings and not have to use a MWD, it wouldn't be an outright buff, but wouldn't be a nerf either. The alternative is always to fix the "nano problem" that I've heard so much about, but who knows?
Kenji Kikuta	Posted - 2008.06.20 11:34:00 - [28] Edited by: Kenji Kikuta on 20/06/2008 11:34:51 In MY oppinion, dogfight concept requires a new ship type. These ships will be piloted as FPS. For this concept to work properly, dogfight ships has to do very little damage to ther ships than dogfight types as they are "one man" ships in. One could describe them as pods with an extra hull. Their signature radius will be extremely small so that no other ship types than dogfight ones can actually harm them (exception being area weapons). This i would like to see in EVE as it would bring another dimension to the game.
VJ Maverick Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.06.20 14:22:00 - [29] Originally by: Kenji Kikuta Edited by: Kenji Kikuta on 20/06/2008 11:34:51 In MY oppinion, dogfight concept requires a new ship type. These ships will be piloted as FPS. For this concept to work properly, dogfight ships has to do very little damage to ther ships than dogfight types as they are "one man" ships in. One could describe them as pods with an extra hull. Their signature radius will be extremely small so that no other ship types than dogfight ones can actually harm them (exception being area weapons). This i would like to see in EVE as it would bring another dimension to the game. Not so. You want to see how this ship will work? All you need to do is some basic frigate PvE, where you don't get webbed as soon as you load the overview. Get a Rifter. Outfit it with autocannons and run a level 1 mission. Orbit each target at 1500-2000, and let loose with the AC's. The ship turns and weaves, using its speed to evade enemy fire. That's the effect I'm looking for. What's this FPS crap? Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
VJ Maverick Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.06.20 14:26:00 - [30] Originally by: Draahk Chimera I like it! To quiet the concerns about people strapping a mwd on and being unwebbable at mwd speed rather then ab speed why not just a negative bonus? Like the destroyer ROF penalty? Like this: Frig bonus 1: Drone bay or gun tracking or gun optimal or missile velocity Frig bonus 2: Drone damage/hitpoints or gun damage or gun rof or missile damage AF bonus 1: 10% increase in Afterburner speed efficency per level AF bonus 2: 20% reduction in webbed speed penalty per level Penalty: -100% speed bonus from MicroWarpDrive. Nice! This, I REALLY like. The MWD penalty brings it all together. Thanks for the input. Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.

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