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Matrix Skye
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Posted - 2008.06.23 15:49:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Matrix Skye on 23/06/2008 16:10:21
 Originally by: Matrixcvd
does a BS have more effective HP than a nano? c/d?
does a nano usually get hit for full damage? c/d? way to divert away from the problem  i know that you know you're full of it but i'll entertain your silliness anyway. technically speaking yes, the bs has more effective HP. but the bs takes a HELL OF ALOT MORE DAMAGE moving at brick speed. and also has issues hitting anything smaller than itself. c/d? 
Quote:
does a nano usually run a solid active tank better than a BS? c/d?
again, acting dumb you are . techincally yes, bs handles active tanks better than a nano. but you very dang well know that a nano tank IS SUPERIOR. its why your corp (and coincidentally your previous alliance) chose to fly almost exclusively nanos, c/d?  .
Quote:
Fly a balanced fleet and Ewar/Log can help BS's because 30 seconds is all you need, you get caught in nano and your friends wont have time to lock you or jam the enemy
only b**lsh*t i see is you
as soon as battle goes bad for me i flee in a nano. i want to see you try that with a bs . to kill 1 (ONE!, UNO!) nanoishtar or vaga you need another nano or a GANG of whatevers. and before you come in with OMGRAPIER!1! i said "to KILL", not make it bug off/or be on some stupid 2-hour stalemate until buddies show up.
b**lsh*tting much? c/d?
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Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.06.23 16:16:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Matrix Skye
Edited by: Matrix Skye on 23/06/2008 16:10:21
Originally by: Matrixcvd
does a BS have more effective HP than a nano? c/d?
does a nano usually get hit for full damage? c/d? way to divert away from the problem i know that you know you're full of it but i'll entertain your silliness anyway. technically speaking yes, the bs has more effective HP. but the bs takes a HELL OF ALOT MORE DAMAGE moving at brick speed. and also has issues hitting anything smaller than itself. c/d?
Quote:
does a nano usually run a solid active tank better than a BS? c/d?
again, acting dumb you are . techincally yes, bs handles active tanks better than a nano. but you very dang well know that a nano tank IS SUPERIOR. its why your corp (and coincidentally your previous alliance) chose to fly almost exclusively nanos, c/d? .
Quote:
Fly a balanced fleet and Ewar/Log can help BS's because 30 seconds is all you need, you get caught in nano and your friends wont have time to lock you or jam the enemy
only b**lsh*t i see is you
as soon as battle goes bad for me i flee in a nano. i want to see you try that with a bs . to kill 1 (ONE!, UNO!) nanoishtar or vaga you need another nano or a GANG of whatevers. and before you come in with OMGRAPIER!1! i said "to KILL", not make it bug off/or be on some stupid 2-hour stalemate until buddies show up.
b**lsh*tting much? c/d?
oh holy emo joy, you forgot the orginal comments about making a mistake on grid and getting caught and the amount of time it takes to lose your ship, and if you cant get your rapier in to grab an ishtar you are fail baiter, just like you fail at forums c/d?
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Matrix Skye
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Posted - 2008.06.23 16:34:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Matrixcvd
oh holy emo joy, you forgot the orginal comments about making a mistake on grid and getting caught and the amount of time it takes to lose your ship, and if you cant get your rapier in to grab an ishtar you are fail baiter, just like you fail at forums c/d?
oh but its all there.
make a mistake? what like forget to click on MWD? on a nano you can jump straight into a camp and burn back to the gate easily. or hell you can get caught with your pants down and still have a much better chance at survival than a BS in the same exact situation. but nah, you're here to convince us that since a BS has more 'effective HP' it has a better survival chance? . try hugging that nano of yours tighter because your **** poor of an excuse on why it isn't overpowered is straight up sh*t. you teh really funneh
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Raymon James
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.06.23 16:43:00 -
[154]
Originally by: My Julutschka
Same es in WoW when they cried "PALA IS IMBA" and the Palas replied "LUL n00bs..only takes 3 other chars to kill us..we are fine"
Think about it !
I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. whats a palas?
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Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
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Posted - 2008.06.23 16:45:00 -
[155]
Why must every ship be nanoed?
Why not? (I'm suprised that nobody actually posted that at this point given the length of the thread)
Here's why:
1. It's fun to fly fast ships.
2. You're far more likely to win a fight if you can choose them.
3. You're far more likely to survive a fight if you can run away from them.
Note the subtle difference between #2 and #3. I see way too many people complaining about 'losing' to a nano-ship because the nano-ship ran away and warped off. Newsflash, you didn't lose: you just forced your opponent from the field without losing your ship, which is a victory in it's own right. Mind you, killing your opponent is far more effective, not to mention more gratifying, but if the other guy intended to kill you and ran without killing you, he lost, period.
In fleets, it's not as binary obviously. The equation changes if the nano-gang manages to inflict more losses than they sustain before running away, but that is the very nature of guerilla warfare: hit fast, inflict maximum damage, fade away before your target can mount a defense. It becomes a war of attrition on a very small scale and unless the defenders can lock down and destroy the nano-gang, only the nano-gang can determine when it ends.
History has shown that guerilla wafare is incredibly effective because the guerillas chose the terms of the fights and run away when out-numbered. Why should EvE be any different?
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.23 16:46:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Matrix Skye
Edited by: Matrix Skye on 23/06/2008 16:39:09
Originally by: Matrixcvd
oh holy emo joy, you forgot the orginal comments about making a mistake on grid and getting caught and the amount of time it takes to lose your ship, and if you cant get your rapier in to grab an ishtar you are fail baiter, just like you fail at forums c/d?
make a mistake? what like forget to click on MWD? on a nano you can jump straight into a camp and burn back to the gate easily. or hell you can get caught with your pants down and still have a much better chance at survival than a BS in the same exact situation. but nah, you're here to convince us that since a BS has more 'effective HP' it has a better survival chance? try hugging that nano of yours tighter because your pi*s poor of an excuse on why it isn't overpowered is straight up sh*t. you teh really funneh, son
oh, and according to matrixcvd battleships > nanos c/d? i wonder why tri gangs and your corp fly almost exclusively nano tanks. must be because you think bs' are overpowered?
Post with your main (I can't because it's banned).
A mistake would be getting inside the web range of any ship.
A mistake would be to let a ceptor catch me.
Or I could just get neuted by some guy when I have my mwd off and then I have no cap, I'm in scram range and I have no mwd pulse to go on.
Some people fly nano because most of eves population don't know what to do.
_______________________________________________________________________________
EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age
The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.23 16:48:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
History has shown that guerilla wafare is incredibly effective because the guerillas chose the terms of the fights and run away when out-numbered. Why should EvE be any different?
Because the mighty caldari militia, the biggest entity in this game, the powerblock of gods, wishes it to be so. THEIR DRAEKS WILL BLOT OUT THE SUN!
_______________________________________________________________________________
EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age
The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Matrix Skye
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Posted - 2008.06.23 17:03:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Tenuo
Post with your main (I can't because it's banned).
is this a plea or a demand? cant tell but really dont care either way.
Quote:
A mistake would be getting inside the web range of any ship.
ok. explain how the hell is a webbed none-nano ship gonna over-speed a webbed nano ship? let me guess, double web or bring a buddy nano still outruns none-nano and can still warp off. even with neuts and nano/nos ship will still have advantage.
Quote:
A mistake would be to let a ceptor catch me.
yes, ceptor catches you then what? ah yes, bring more mates to help you kill that 1 nano, right?
Quote:
Or I could just get neuted by some guy when I have my mwd off and then I have no cap, I'm in scram range and I have no mwd pulse to go on.
you mean like you're afk or brain-dead for a minute or two? yeah, i guess that could happen.
Quote:
Some people fly nano because most of eves population don't know what to do.
oh but its easy. nano yourself. unless a nano pilot falls asleep at the wheel the best counter for nano is another nano. but like i said before. i actually encourage every1 to fly nanos because in the end there'll be less kills on killboards and it'll be the kb wh*r*s whining about no1 to kill.
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Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.06.23 17:24:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Matrix Skye
Originally by: Tenuo
Post with your main (I can't because it's banned).
is this a plea or a demand? cant tell but really dont care either way.
Quote:
A mistake would be getting inside the web range of any ship.
ok. explain how the hell is a webbed none-nano ship gonna over-speed a webbed nano ship? let me guess, double web or bring a buddy nano still outruns none-nano and can still warp off. even with neuts and nano/nos ship will still have advantage.
Quote:
A mistake would be to let a ceptor catch me.
yes, ceptor catches you then what? ah yes, bring more mates to help you kill that 1 nano, right?
Quote:
Or I could just get neuted by some guy when I have my mwd off and then I have no cap, I'm in scram range and I have no mwd pulse to go on.
you mean like you're afk or brain-dead for a minute or two? yeah, i guess that could happen.
Quote:
Some people fly nano because most of eves population don't know what to do.
oh but its easy. nano yourself. unless a nano pilot falls asleep at the wheel the best counter for nano is another nano. but like i said before. i actually encourage every1 to fly nanos because in the end there'll be less kills on killboards and it'll be the kb wh*r*s whining about no1 to kill.
I GOT IT! And this took me a while but...You must be that new Eve PVPer, the EFT-Sisi PVP Allstar!
Ladies and Gentlemen, Let me introduce you all to the newest member of the Eve community. Matrix Skye, an alt poaster with loads of experience flying wackadoo officer vagabonds doing 15 k/s on Sisi pwning all you come forth then informing us about his superior knowledge of game mechanics.
Watch as he calls you nubs and how he pwn's with nanos, watch how he calls for the nerfing of his trade because he can't help but watch the poor capsuleers who can't nano, behold at his mastery of forum bu**sh*t and mindgames to convince you he actually plays on tranquility...
You got me, you really did, awesome job tho...
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Atsuko Ratu
VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2008.06.23 17:26:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Matrix Skye
ok. explain how the hell is a webbed none-nano ship gonna over-speed a webbed nano ship? let me guess, double web or bring a buddy nano still outruns none-nano and can still warp off. even with neuts and nano/nos ship will still have advantage.
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Lyria Skydancer
Eve Defence Force
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.06.23 17:27:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
Why must every ship be nanoed?
Why not? (I'm suprised that nobody actually posted that at this point given the length of the thread)
Here's why:
1. It's fun to fly fast ships.
2. You're far more likely to win a fight if you can choose them.
3. You're far more likely to survive a fight if you can run away from them.
Note the subtle difference between #2 and #3. I see way too many people complaining about 'losing' to a nano-ship because the nano-ship ran away and warped off. Newsflash, you didn't lose: you just forced your opponent from the field without losing your ship, which is a victory in it's own right. Mind you, killing your opponent is far more effective, not to mention more gratifying, but if the other guy intended to kill you and ran without killing you, he lost, period.
In fleets, it's not as binary obviously. The equation changes if the nano-gang manages to inflict more losses than they sustain before running away, but that is the very nature of guerilla warfare: hit fast, inflict maximum damage, fade away before your target can mount a defense. It becomes a war of attrition on a very small scale and unless the defenders can lock down and destroy the nano-gang, only the nano-gang can determine when it ends.
History has shown that guerilla wafare is incredibly effective because the guerillas chose the terms of the fights and run away when out-numbered. Why should EvE be any different?
Yeah and there are fast ships, they are called frigates. There is no need nor justification for 500+dps hacs going near interceptor speeds. There is something called speed vs dps balance. I know ccp has taken a dump on that balance if you take nano hacs into account but lets hope that changes. You got nothing to complain about then, you can still fly your fast ships: FRIGATES.
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[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
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Posted - 2008.06.23 17:31:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Yeah and there are fast ships, they are called frigates. There is no need nor justification for 500+dps hacs going near interceptor speeds. There is something called speed vs dps balance. I know ccp has taken a dump on that balance if you take nano hacs into account but lets hope that changes. You got nothing to complain about then, you can still fly your fast ships: FRIGATES.
Hey, at least CCP is moving in the right direction. Rememeber the much feared NanoPhoon and NanoDomi? They could actually go faster than some of the Nano-HACs you see today. At least battleships no longer get employed as guerilla ships.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.23 17:38:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
1. It's fun to fly fast ships.
2. You're far more likely to win a fight if you can choose them.
3. You're far more likely to survive a fight if you can run away from them.
Surviving isn't winning. Its a draw. If you might die or draw and the nano is more likely to draw or win then the nano has the advantage.
Fast ships are only fun to fly for some people. Not everyone has a computer that can handle it. Not everyone has a connection that can handle it. Not everyone can handle the speed nor has the twitch type reflexes.
Fast ships are a bit too much fps-like for some. It attracts the younger crowd and pushes away those that are older. There are some that just *don't* want to fly them. They're foolish but what can you do. In a nano world anything that isn't nano'd is usually a liability.
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
that is the very nature of guerilla warfare: hit fast, inflict maximum damage, fade away before your target can mount a defense. It becomes a war of attrition on a very small scale and unless the defenders can lock down and destroy the nano-gang, only the nano-gang can determine when it ends.
This isn't guerilla warfare. The "hit fast" thing is often designed to force the defenders out to get even more easy kills. Nanos are there to stir up the hive because unless the "defenders" field greater number of well equipped nanos then there isn't much risk.
The defenders cannot lock down nor effectively destroy the nano-gang. The nanos will engage until they start taking more losses than acceptable then they'll withdraw.
As you've stated: "only the nano-gang can determine when it ends". This does not reflect guerilla warfare.
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
History has shown that guerilla wafare is incredibly effective because the guerillas chose the terms of the fights and run away when out-numbered. Why should EvE be any different?
Guerilla warfare works by striking where the enemy is not. A stealth bomber/black ops gang would be guerilla warfware. Nanos strike mostly where they please. Nanos prefer a target rich environment as they can choose the engagement.
Nanos are closer to the fighter aircraft in a world with limited surface to air weapons. You might get lucky by tossing a rock up but mostly the best idea is to ignore them or fly them. The grunt out of basic is useless. Heavy and light armor on the ground is mostly useless when they cannot choose when to fight.
What we get is the current trend. The push is for everyone to fly nanos. There are the occasional remote rep bs gang but mostly what I see are gangs forming up for nanos only. If it isn't a nano/nano support then it isn't welcome to even undock.
So the only rational thing is to fly nanos yourself and mock those that won't fly nanos.
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Calvin Okone
LSP Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.23 17:58:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 20/06/2008 13:21:53
Originally by: Hijara
Why does EVERY ship have to be nanoed? Seems like i am the only one who pvp's with a zealot going only 256m/s. What happened to large alpha, or good tanks?
Because ever since the WCS nerf, people have been looking for a way to PVP while minimising the risk. Currently, a fast nanoship is pretty much invincible if boarded by a competent pilot.
I didn't know that there was a WCS nerf. What was it? |
Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.06.23 18:02:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Darineah Charach
The problem with nanogangs is that their ISN'T a reliable, viable counter that results in nanoship death.
If there were a reliable, viable counter that resulted in nanoship death, precisely 0 people would fly them. But that doesn't mean they're overpowered either.
Anything with a reliable, viable counter that results in ship death will never be flown by anyone with half a clue.
You don't want to balance anything ships, you want to kill off speed tanking completely.
There's more to pvp than rolling your head across the F-keys.
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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.06.23 18:10:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Italian Wedding
Originally by: AstroPhobic
6. Heavy Neuts
7. ECM
8. RR
9. Tracking
10. Lots of inties/frigs
11. Low transversal and sniper BS
6. Cap Injector > Neuts
7. ECM ships can't kill nano's (requires specialized GANG to kill one cruiser sized ship = bull****)
8. Remote Reps can't kill nano ships (requires specialized GANG to kill 1 cruiser sized ship = bull****)
9. Drones
10. Why should it take many ships to take down 1 cruise sized ship?
12. Lol @ nano pilot that gets low transversal to a sniper bs moving at <200m/s.
Minmatar, should've known. Trying to protect your low risk high kill investment.
6. Tell that to my curse.
7. 2M ECM ship + 4M t1 tacklefrig = dead 250M nano. 2 ships, not a gang. worth 2.4% of the nano ship
8. remote reps will make you immune to nano loldps
9. smartbombs
10. it doesn't, just use better strategy Why do you think it should take a ship worth 1% as much to kill a ship worth 250M or more?
11. why does your stupid sniper not have a MWD fitted?
Most nano pilots invested months of training and hundreds of millions of ISK if not billions. You want to invest nothing, train no period of time and kill them. Why? It makes no sense.
Oh, right, you can't roll your head across the F-keys and get killmails when the people you're fighting use their heads for thinking instead of mashing buttons.
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Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
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Posted - 2008.06.23 18:12:00 -
[167]
Originally by: *****zilla
Surviving isn't winning. Its a draw. If you might die or draw and the nano is more likely to draw or win then the nano has the advantage.
I agree. I was just pointing out the difference between winning a fight and surviving one. Nano-ships have the advantage on both ends, which is why they're so appealing.
Originally by: *****zilla
The defenders cannot lock down nor effectively destroy the nano-gang. The nanos will engage until they start taking more losses than acceptable then they'll withdraw.
As you've stated: "only the nano-gang can determine when it ends". This does not reflect guerilla warfare.
Properly chosen defenders cannot lock down or destroy a nano-gang, which goes back to chosing your fights and surviving fights that go bad, both of which favor nano-ships. That's not the same as saying that you can't counter a nano-gang with a non-nano gang, just that the nano-gang has a better choice of opponents and a better chance of running away. The "when it ends" statement was meant in reference to a nano-gang engaging a well chosen, poorly equipped non-nano-gang; this should have been better clarified.
Originally by: *****zilla
Guerilla warfare works by striking where the enemy is not. A stealth bomber/black ops gang would be guerilla warfware. Nanos strike mostly where they please. Nanos prefer a target rich environment as they can choose the engagement.
If you strike where the enemy is not, you have nothing to strike at. Guerilla warefare is about striking where the enemy cannot strike back so you maximize your inflicted damage while minimizing your potential risk, which is why it's great to be able to choose your fights.
Originally by: *****zilla
Nanos are closer to the fighter aircraft in a world with limited surface to air weapons. You might get lucky by tossing a rock up but mostly the best idea is to ignore them or fly them. The grunt out of basic is useless. Heavy and light armor on the ground is mostly useless when they cannot choose when to fight.
I agree with this statement. Flying a nano-ship well requires a lot of training in navigation, weapons, fitting, etc.; low SP characters are usually of little effective use in a nano-gang unless they're a scout or bait. But EvE was never about brand new characters being as effective as older ones, so I'm okay with this as long as you see fleets forming up for non-nano-ships, which I do (at least in the Caldari Milita).
Originally by: *****zilla
What we get is the current trend. The push is for everyone to fly nanos. There are the occasional remote rep bs gang but mostly what I see are gangs forming up for nanos only. If it isn't a nano/nano support then it isn't welcome to even undock.
So the only rational thing is to fly nanos yourself and mock those that won't fly nanos.
Unfortunately, I agree with this as well. Even though there are effective counters to nano-gangs, those counters don't offer the benefits of a nano-gang (i.e. choosing your fights, fleeing from fights gone bad). A spider-tanked BS gang may be very hard for a like-sized nano-gang to kill, but they're never getting away from a nano-gang either nor would they have an easy time ambushing one.
Despite the current situation, however, I don't think that nano-ships need any kind of significant nerf. Maneuver is the very heart of warfare; people will adapt or they will die.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
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Posted - 2008.06.23 18:14:00 -
[168]
Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 23/06/2008 18:15:29
Originally by: Calvin Okone
I didn't know that there was a WCS nerf. What was it?
Warp Core Stabilizers didn't always have their horrible penalties to your targeting range and lock time.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Lyria Skydancer
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.06.23 18:19:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Xaen
7. 2M ECM ship + 4M t1 tacklefrig = dead 250M nano. 2 ships, not a gang. worth 2.4% of the nano ship
8. remote reps will make you immune to nano loldps
9. smartbombs
10. it doesn't, just use better strategy Why do you think it should take a ship worth 1% as much to kill a ship worth 250M or more?
11. why does your stupid sniper not have a MWD fitted?
Omg.
7. Yeah you need 2 people per nano. So 25 man nano gang needs 50 man gang to counter. Fail.
8. Sitting inside a station all day will make you immune to nanos and EVEN TITANS. You got some imba suggestions there mate!
10. Wait, how many isk does the average nano ship kill before he goes pop? Compare that to any other ship. Yeah, you fail.
11. Wait, are you telling me that you think an mwding BS sniper has significant impact on reducing transveral against nanos?
Actually it is nano gangs that are the ones rolling their faces on the F keys. Nano gangs cover up noobness:
FC makes bad choices? No probs, nanos mostly get away. Normal fleets wipe with one mistake.
You make bad choices in combat? No probs, you can outrun most things and those things you cant outrun you can kill easily. In a normal ship youd be dead 10 times over.
Yeah keep telling yourself that nano pilots are skilled. They are not, it is exactly the opposite and it is quite funny how dilusional some are about this.
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[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.06.23 18:20:00 -
[170]
Originally by: TZeer
Something is wrong when cruisersized ships are moving faster then many of the average ceptor pilots.
What the **** are you talking about?
Average nano speed: 3.2kms to 3.9km/s
Average interceptor speed: 7km/s 11km/s
Either post setups proving your point or stop saying they're faster than interceptors because they're flat out not.
An interceptor with zero speed mods fitted and good skills is faster than everything but a nano vagabond. Right now I'm looking at an Ares in EFT with no speed mods and no implants and All V going 4188m/s. For comparison I've got a 232M ISK Ishtar with the same skills and seven speed mods going 3818. Actually put some mods in the Ares' lows and it's 7340m/s.
Since it's already clear you're lying or woefully unaware of reality I'm not going to bother with the rest of your post.
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Lyria Skydancer
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.06.23 18:21:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Xaen
Originally by: TZeer
Something is wrong when cruisersized ships are moving faster then many of the average ceptor pilots.
What the **** are you talking about?
Average nano speed: 3.2kms to 3.9km/s
Average interceptor speed: 7km/s 11km/s
Either post setups proving your point or stop saying they're faster than interceptors because they're flat out not.
An interceptor with zero speed mods fitted and good skills is faster than everything but a nano vagabond. Right now I'm looking at an Ares in EFT with no speed mods and no implants and All V going 4188m/s. For comparison I've got a 232M ISK Ishtar with the same skills and seven speed mods going 3818. Actually put some mods in the Ares' lows and it's 7340m/s.
Since it's already clear you're lying or woefully unaware of reality I'm not going to bother with the rest of your post.
A non high skilled ceptor pilot does not reach anything near 7km/s.
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[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.06.23 18:24:00 -
[172]
Originally by: *****zilla
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
effectively render them obsolete by giving every single ship in the game similar abilities.
Not similiar abilities. Currently Huginn/Rapiers have a very unique ability that makes them very valuable in fleets. There aren't other t1 options that compare. I'd like to see something in between the mostly useless webs we have now and a t2 fitted Minm Recon.
Well, then look at it
Originally by: *****zilla
What I'm asking for is a viable t1 webbing solution.
Why on earth should you get one? Honestly. If you can own all nanos in whatever ship you decided to put your t1 webbing solution on, that's not balance, it's an IWINBUTAN.
Propose a solution that balances the game without making hacs completely inferior in every way to battlecruisers and I'll take you seriously.
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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.06.23 18:28:00 -
[173]
Originally by: TZeer
Another thing, the insane speeds you get nowdays combined with the nerf on sensorbooster makes ranged combat a thing of the past...
By the time you get a lock, it`s already on top of you... Or if you get a lock on it, it`s already either so close that the guns cant track or so high speed that missiles dont do any damage...
And if you kill it, theres now a wreck for hostiles to warp to...
You can't warp to wrecks. WTF. You just executed your own credibility.
Originally by: TZeer
And yeah, rapier or huginn does good, but when there are multiple nanostuff incomming it`s only so much a huginn/rapier can do before it either must get out or gets popped...
So you remote rep it. Or ECM the nanos. (hello? blackbird?) Or damp them. Or tracking disrupt them. Or neut them. Or snipe them with destroyers or medium guns.
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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.06.23 18:32:00 -
[174]
Originally by: TZeer
Quote:
There's tons of ways to kill a nanoship pilot 1v1, in anything from a Rupture upwards
Then please tell me thoose tons of ways that dont include Rapier/Huginn. And that actually kills the nanoship, not just forces them to dissengage...
First explain why you think you should be able to kill them.
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Xaen
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Posted - 2008.06.23 18:48:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Tefkros
Edited by: Tefkros on 23/06/2008 08:22:07
Originally by: Ambien Torca
Easy kills for you. TD+neut megas, web smaller ships and pound away... They donŠt have much chance unless their BS got neutralizers.
You are right. Such an exotic module. I hear they drop only near Jove space.
rofl
My domi fits 3 heavy energy warfare mods. Not enough to touch the curse, but the huggin would have been in deep ****.
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Posted - 2008.06.23 18:50:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Italian Wedding
Edited by: Italian Wedding on 23/06/2008 08:27:25
Originally by: Lord WarATron
People need to ask themselves why, due to game design, that there is a need to nano in the first place.
Firstly, we know people like to kill things without losing things. We then take the highest probable method of survival in Eve, which is speed. The higher your speed, the more likely you are to survive what would otherwise be a negative outcome (losing your ship). With this information, we can now see why most people fit their ship to go as fast as they can.
On top of that, with a speed fitted ship, you have the very valuable advantage of choosing 99% of your fights and being able to get away from said fight if something suddenly appears that could change your desired outcome (there is absolutely zero commitment required by a nano pilot, where as 100% commitment is required by target non-nanoship).
Now we know why people fit nanoed ships - because they want to be able to kill and not be killed. No other setup comes close to the amount survivability yet gankability of a nano'd ship (cruiser class and lower).
Falcon. Blackbird. Scorpion. Lachesis & Arazu (try locking something that has you damped to 8km). Kitsune. Widow. Neut [battleship].
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.23 18:51:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Xaen
No, it's not far more effective. It's the only way to fit that justifies a HAC over a battlecruiser.
Versus the "i win" for a nano?
A tanked hac can warp faster system to system. Greater agility, less sig radius. In a tanked ship versus tanked ship fight a hac may have to commit however can control range better.
There is the Eagle and Muninn. Mostly ignored in favor of nanos. However niches like these prove that non nano hacs have a place.
There are many t2 ships that are vastly more expensive than the t1 stuff. However the nanos are in a different league than the t1 ships entirely. Just because something is expensive doesn't mean that it has to be good. Price does not control utility.
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: Xaen
First explain why you think you should be able to kill them.
Maybe because the point of the pvp part of the game is to blow up enemy ships? :O
And if you can't the choices are either 1) don't fight, 2) fly them yourself. Both options are depressing.
But hey, variety in pvp ships and fittings are mosty dead anyways.
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.23 18:56:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Xaen
Originally by: Italian Wedding
Of course not EVERY single pilot fits nanos, but more often then not, they do, because it is simply FAR MORE EFFECTIVE to be nanoed then it is not to be nanoed, hence why you see more non-nanoed hacs on the killboard on the dieing side then nanoed hacs.
No, it's not far more effective. It's the only way to fit that justifies a HAC over a battlecruiser.
Seriously. Any battlecruiser in the game can fit a better tank and more DPS than any HAC. And on top of that they're 100% insurable. I implore you to please think about this for 10 freaking seconds. What purpose would a HAC serve if a battlecruiser does damage an tanking better, more cheaply? Go on, name something. Explain what role HACs would have if you can't effectively nano them. Oh right, they'd be bigger, more expensive assault frigates but no more useful.
The problem isn't that people are opposed to nanos. It's that every change the propose completely destroys all usefulness of heavy assault ships utterly. Post a balanced suggestion and people might take you seriously. Because right now it looks like you're looking for an IWINBUTAN that will allow you to roll your head across the fkeys.
Nope not all hacs are replacable by BCs in every role. Still what needs to be done is a nerf on BCs or a boost to HAC fittings and roles that doesn't include nanoing. But then again, youd need to boost field commands a bit aswell. Bah, it never ends. All this still isnt justification enough for nano hacs, they are an imbalance in this game and need to go.
No they aren't.
And Xaen, you can warp to wrecks, it's why people shoot friendly wrecks in fleet battles, to prevent dictors and hictors from warping to the midst of a fleet.
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EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age
The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.06.23 19:03:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Italian Wedding
I urge you to give me the name of an interceptor (I will train every skill to 5 and spend 20bil isk for this said ceptor) that can mwd into a group of 50 nanohacs and survive long enough to even lock something.
Why on earth would you fly an interceptor into a group of 50 nanohacs?
I have a better idea genius. Get a bunch of short range gank battleships with two webs and range scripted sensor boosers. Get your gank battleships to lock targets. Get a covops to give you a warp-in on the nano gang. Drop your whole god damn 50 man battleship fleet right in their laps. Since they've already got locks, you double web and watch them explode like popcorn. I mean, the only conceivable fleet you would try and tackle someone in a 50 man nano hac fleet for is one with bigger tank and gank, right?
Or you could come whine on the forums about how rolling your head across the fkeys isn't working.
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Xaen
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Posted - 2008.06.23 19:06:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Italian Wedding
I will however play the worlds tiniest violin for you when you come to the boards and cry out that "my xxxxx is worthless now cause it can't go 5kms anymore thx ccp".
Like we're playing the tiniest violin for you because you can't kill anything by rolling your head across the fkeys?
Also, the only nano that goes 5km/s is the vagabond, and CCP have specifically stated that any speed nerf applied will not touch the vagabond. So either stop exaggerating about the speed of nanos in general, or come right out and say vagabond (which won't be nerfed). Either way, your point is invalid.
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