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The Djego
merovinger inc
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Posted - 2008.06.20 17:07:00 -
[31]
Edited by: The Djego on 20/06/2008 17:11:46
 Originally by: supr3m3justic3
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
We just need a ship with a good tank that can web at range and nano-blobs will no longer be a guaranteed win.
!!!!!!rapier!!!!!!
Exequeror Navy Issue!!! 
To the OP, well to kill(read kill) a Nano Ship nothing beats a Nano Ship, than comes the standard Forum "Adept or die, Noob." and here we are, all together, happy in our Nano Hacs. Sadly. 
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Trojanman190
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.06.20 17:09:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Gimpb
Edited by: Gimpb on 20/06/2008 17:00:14
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
I am a noob, can someone define "nano" for me?
In general, a T2 cruiser that goes 3k+ m/s.
Sometimes inties are considered nano as well, they of course make that speed easily but play differently.
Some other ships can also perform in simmilar ways, hurricanes and phoons for example.
I think of added important is the warp time. One a ship that cannot break 4km/s I feel that warp time is far more important than top speed. The ishtar is a slow beast unless you use extremely expensive rigs and implants and even then getting past 4 - 4.5 is rough. My ishtar is almost 4km/s but warps in 3.5s.
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Gavin Darklighter
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.06.20 17:19:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 20/06/2008 17:22:54
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 20/06/2008 17:21:44
Originally by: supr3m3justic3
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
We just need a ship with a good tank that can web at range and nano-blobs will no longer be a guaranteed win.
!!!!!!rapier!!!!!!
Maybe I wasn't that specific with the requirements of a "good tank", but the rapier does not qualify. The Rapier is more or less a nano-ship itself. I would just like to have a nice big slow ship with a good tank that could web nanos at range.
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Ash Bringer
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Posted - 2008.06.20 17:23:00 -
[34]
some one already mention it and that's why...
WCS Nerf..
I remember a time where 20km scrambler is a %50 chance to tackle someone. Even if u are in a interceptor and in range...
That time It was only the vagas there.. That was nanoship which is designed that way. Even they had WCS though he he... Ishtars that nanoed were abominations as they can put a WCS at lows and if u try to point an ishtar from 7.5km in a vaga u were toast, as ishtar will have web + point + 2 MAR tank... Because they have WCS in low aligning time was not that important as with ping ppl have only interceptors could catch a cruiser after decloak in a gate camp and %90 time it was 1 point so hahaha it was nothing.
Then WCS nerf came.. Because ppl whine that they are game breaking. Because u could engage the fight and run when ever u want. All-wise CCP nerfed them to hell (Which is good actually)
Then...
People start to lose their ships most of time. Because their ships was not aligning fast in a gate camp, so that even 1 point is enough to stop ppl. Their ship can not return to gate fast enough.. Don't even think about tanking the blob anyway..
Then CCP made a mistake and heavily buffed the inertia stabilizers. So ppl easily achieved great speeds and agility. And they learned to play that way...
Btw if u ask me 2 nanoships attacking each other is most like a space game or movies , And 2 ravens attacking each other is most like WOW. U stood in front of him and press buttons and pray to god to have a critical hit on enemy hehehe...
Then they nerf inertia but ppl learned the new fun way. They just didn't gave up...
As nano is fun.. U can actually use real skills but not only skill points. U are mostly invul to most of dangers (as old WCS) , U can solo against a blob (which is important for some ppls) U can engage a BS in a cruiser and when he neut u down u can still run from it (most of the time he he) They align fast as interceptors so they can intercept ppl in belts (which is good to keep NPC farmer population in line) They can actually travel around (10-20jumps is nothing which is eve's most boring part)
So I love to nano my ships... Yeah maybe they'll nerf it too. As long as my vaga is keeped untouched I wont cry out too much, but believe me it will make everything more boring...
Slow slow ships. When engaged in fight u will know that who is going down from the first second. Most skillpointed pilot will be uber killing machine and my nighthawk will rip everything apart...
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.20 17:29:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Trojanman190
I think of added important is the warp time.
If warp time were this important than wouldn't that be reason enough to fly hacs versus t1 battlecruisers? Wouldn't hacs etc rely more in i-stabs versus only for maintaining orbit?
If warp time were this important than remote rep bs gangs would be very viable. They'd only need a frig or two to web and get the gang into warp. Any warp over 12-15au (roughly) they could web each other and be out of aggression by the time they hit the gate to jump through.
A freighter gang can coordinate getting into warp in a few seconds. Why is this not seen in remote rep bs gangs?
Seems to me that we spend more time in warp than aligning. If warp time mattered than wouldn't rigs to accelerate speed in warp be worth more than shaving a few seconds off of the align time?
Most everyone knows the usual speed for most hacs. The standard eft fits take great interest in the mwd speed. Yet align time and speed in warp is nearly entirely ignored.
Nanos are fit for speed on grid. Their ability to jump from system to system quickly without coordination is a freebie. Nanos are not fit for getting into warp quickly nor speed in warp. These attributes are entirely a secondary consideration after addressing the primary issue of speed.
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Ephemeron
Anti-BoB
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Posted - 2008.06.20 17:34:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Ephemeron on 20/06/2008 17:35:20
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: The Tzar
Because nano's are the only ships that can get away from the all too common hotdropping these days.
Introduce mobile cynojammers for HIC's and watch EvE go back to damage dealing rather than trying to avoid combat as a ships primary purpose.
Nice idea.
I'd like to see mobile cynojammers, similar to mobile bubbles, anchor it and it prevents caps from cynoing in your grid.
ok it could work if its effect is limited to grid-wide only
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Lord WarATron
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.20 18:38:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 20/06/2008 18:38:30
Originally by: Ephemeron
Edited by: Ephemeron on 20/06/2008 17:35:20
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: The Tzar
Because nano's are the only ships that can get away from the all too common hotdropping these days.
Introduce mobile cynojammers for HIC's and watch EvE go back to damage dealing rather than trying to avoid combat as a ships primary purpose.
Nice idea.
I'd like to see mobile cynojammers, similar to mobile bubbles, anchor it and it prevents caps from cynoing in your grid.
ok it could work if its effect is limited to grid-wide only
Mobile web bubbles, yes. Mobile cynojammers, I would say no. Most people do not nano to avoid hot drops, they do it for minimum risk pvp.
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Billion Isk Mission |
AKULA UrQuan
Druuge Crimson Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.20 18:45:00 -
[38]
Nano is as close to "iddqd" as one can get in eve these days. Be nice if we could go back to the days where 5,000 m/s was considered really, really fast.
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Gantrithor105
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.20 18:56:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tenuo
Edited by: Tenuo on 20/06/2008 15:16:18
Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: Tenuo
Edited by: Tenuo on 20/06/2008 13:24:29
Originally by: Dalek Commander
Because you can outrun missiles, and make tracking nearly useless when you go fast enough. Combat has broken down to either nano, or blob (remote reppers) in Eve. So gate camps = blob, and roaming gangs = nano.
I found your clue, you seem to have lost it.
Yes, they can outrun missiles, this is broken, therefore MISSILES should be fixed. I'm a fan of buffing, buffing does not **** people off, it does not screw with months of training and it does not make millions or billions of isk useless.
Second, I think you should go learn about TRACKING and how signature radius affects this.
Sig radius matters, but transversal/distance matters more I think, and nano lets you increase these.
Yes, but you'll light up at a sig radius over 3 time a battleship, about any medium turret will track you and 44% of a megathrons "on paper dps" will hit you when you go 4200m/s with 1300 sig radius, assuming megathron has null loaded. This at 22km.
But a) most people go faster than this, and b) most people orbit closer. Sig radius means nothing if the angular velocity is larger than the turret's tracking ability. You'll miss every time.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.06.20 20:02:00 -
[40]
Originally by: AKULA UrQuan
Nano is as close to "iddqd" as one can get in eve these days. Be nice if we could go back to the days where 5,000 m/s was considered really, really fast.
Quoted for emphasis
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El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.06.20 21:25:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 20/06/2008 17:22:54
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 20/06/2008 17:21:44
Originally by: supr3m3justic3
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
We just need a ship with a good tank that can web at range and nano-blobs will no longer be a guaranteed win.
!!!!!!rapier!!!!!!
Maybe I wasn't that specific with the requirements of a "good tank", but the rapier does not qualify. The Rapier is more or less a nano-ship itself. I would just like to have a nice big slow ship with a good tank that could web nanos at range.
Remote repping. It works.
Nanos are excellent, allowing the skilled small gang to outmaneuvre a larger gang at the cost of DPS and HP. Doesnt need a change. There are a huge range of counters that are under-utilised by whiners.
_______________________________________________
Mercenary Forces |
Jalif
Deviance Inc
Nocturnal Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.20 21:41:00 -
[42]
Originally by: El Yatta
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 20/06/2008 17:22:54
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 20/06/2008 17:21:44
Originally by: supr3m3justic3
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
We just need a ship with a good tank that can web at range and nano-blobs will no longer be a guaranteed win.
!!!!!!rapier!!!!!!
Maybe I wasn't that specific with the requirements of a "good tank", but the rapier does not qualify. The Rapier is more or less a nano-ship itself. I would just like to have a nice big slow ship with a good tank that could web nanos at range.
Remote repping. It works.
Nanos are excellent, allowing the skilled small gang to outmaneuvre a larger gang at the cost of DPS and HP. Doesnt need a change. There are a huge range of counters that are under-utilised by whiners.
What he said....
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
We like to share the lub.
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Italian Wedding
Soup Of The Day
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Posted - 2008.06.20 22:31:00 -
[43]
Speed needs a nerf apart from cepters and vaga's. There is no do or die commitment to fighting when you're nanoed and people who fit do or die tanks vs nano fittings die easily. Why should ships that aren't fit for committing to a fight easily outclass those that do fit for fight commitment? After all, wasn't that CCP's aim when nerfing WCS, making people commit to a fight if they are going to fight and not just easily get away if things turn bad? Speed has become the new WCS and now it needs to be toned down.
What so many don't understand is that there are 100+ man nano fleets that are common now. It isn't just about roaming with 3-4 people in nano gangs to get away from the blob anymore because nano blobs are becoming very common.
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Gavin Darklighter
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.06.20 22:33:00 -
[44]
Originally by: El Yatta
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 20/06/2008 17:22:54
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 20/06/2008 17:21:44
Originally by: supr3m3justic3
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
We just need a ship with a good tank that can web at range and nano-blobs will no longer be a guaranteed win.
!!!!!!rapier!!!!!!
Maybe I wasn't that specific with the requirements of a "good tank", but the rapier does not qualify. The Rapier is more or less a nano-ship itself. I would just like to have a nice big slow ship with a good tank that could web nanos at range.
Remote repping. It works.
Nanos are excellent, allowing the skilled small gang to outmaneuvre a larger gang at the cost of DPS and HP. Doesnt need a change. There are a huge range of counters that are under-utilised by whiners.
Ya it works, its even easy if you are ganking people or just need to tank the gate guns, but a battleship would be much more survivable in the same situation. I just don't see why we don't have larger ships with webbing bonuses. The Rapier and Huginn are great for cloaky and nano roles, but I think there should be another hull that fills the web/tank role. Something like a T2 battlecruiser hull with a nice tank and a special high-slot module similar to a focus-scripted warp field generator but provides a ~30km webber and does not allow the webbing-ship to MWD or recieve remote-assistance while its active. Could add new options for gangs rolling out with heavies. Perhaps even more importantly it would end the Minmatar monopoly on long-range webbing and give players who specialize in a different race a chance to fill this role without cross-training, and that is coming from a minmatar spec'd pilot who loves his Huginn.
I agree that nanos are great and I'm not whining about them, I just would like to see a ship with long-range webbing that tanks.
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Halkin
Locus Solus
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Posted - 2008.06.20 23:04:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 20/06/2008 18:38:30
Originally by: Ephemeron
Edited by: Ephemeron on 20/06/2008 17:35:20
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: The Tzar
Because nano's are the only ships that can get away from the all too common hotdropping these days.
Introduce mobile cynojammers for HIC's and watch EvE go back to damage dealing rather than trying to avoid combat as a ships primary purpose.
Nice idea.
I'd like to see mobile cynojammers, similar to mobile bubbles, anchor it and it prevents caps from cynoing in your grid.
ok it could work if its effect is limited to grid-wide only
Mobile web bubbles, yes. Mobile cynojammers, I would say no. Most people do not nano to avoid hot drops, they do it for minimum risk pvp.
if a mobile cyno jammer was to be an option make it grid specific (or AU), rather than system wide. would prevent gate hot drops and make small gank squads aware of incoming caps becuase they have to align and get to the fight.
Originally by: Elise Randolph
Everybody wins when trolls get trolled.
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Tankn00blicus
Cosmic Vacum Cleaners
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Posted - 2008.06.20 23:40:00 -
[46]
Ludicrous speed! GO!!
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Ancy Denaries
Under Heavy Fire
Lex Talionis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.20 23:48:00 -
[47]
Our T1 Cruiser gangs love those nanofleets. Sure, we end up dying...but with 2-3 HACs/Recons blown up versus our 13-14 cruisers....who won the economy?
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.20 23:50:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Halkin
mobile cyno jammer was to be an option make it grid specific (or AU), rather than system wide.
This would also help those that don't need the buff.
Flying a large nano gang? Take a mobile cyno jammer and you'll never be surprised again!
Your fleet has a cap fleet on standby and the hostiles have a cap fleet ready. To spring a trap only pop your cyno first and hit the mobile cyno jammer a second later and the hostiles can't interrupt without giving you time to get out. Your cyno will last 10 minutes. You can get in reinforcements but they can't.
Want to lock down a system? Put mobile cyno jam ship + support on every gate. Disable the pos guns and put a mobile cyno jam ship outside every hostile pos. Now hostiles must cyno into a safe spot without the benefit of a gate for cover or a pos for protection.
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Halkin
Locus Solus
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Posted - 2008.06.21 00:10:00 -
[49]
Originally by: *****zilla
Originally by: Halkin
mobile cyno jammer was to be an option make it grid specific (or AU), rather than system wide.
This would also help those that don't need the buff.
Flying a large nano gang? Take a mobile cyno jammer and you'll never be surprised again!
Your fleet has a cap fleet on standby and the hostiles have a cap fleet ready. To spring a trap only pop your cyno first and hit the mobile cyno jammer a second later and the hostiles can't interrupt without giving you time to get out. Your cyno will last 10 minutes. You can get in reinforcements but they can't.
Want to lock down a system? Put mobile cyno jam ship + support on every gate. Disable the pos guns and put a mobile cyno jam ship outside every hostile pos. Now hostiles must cyno into a safe spot without the benefit of a gate for cover or a pos for protection.
very true, tbh its a stupid idea 
Originally by: Elise Randolph
Everybody wins when trolls get trolled.
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Italian Wedding
Soup Of The Day
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Posted - 2008.06.21 02:28:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Italian Wedding
Speed needs a nerf apart from cepters and vaga's. There is no do or die commitment to fighting when you're nanoed and people who fit do or die tanks vs nano fittings die easily. Why should ships that aren't fit for committing to a fight easily outclass those that do fit for fight commitment? After all, wasn't that CCP's aim when nerfing WCS, making people commit to a fight if they are going to fight and not just easily get away if things turn bad? Speed has become the new WCS and now it needs to be toned down.
What so many don't understand is that there are 100+ man nano fleets that are common now. It isn't just about roaming with 3-4 people in nano gangs to get away from the blob anymore because nano blobs are becoming very common.
No one argues my points
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JVol
The IMorral MAjority
Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.06.21 06:45:00 -
[51]
IMO< Nannos are a great addition to eve, they give not so good PvP'ers a leg up in combat. Should they be nerfed? Hell no !! Heres the answer(s).
1) make neuts and webs have more trainable skills. Skills to increase their range, their drain/web percentage. Sick of nanof*gs?? Then you spend a bit of time getting your t1 web/neut to hit 15-17km before you overheat it. THEN when the gents who scream, "FIT A WEB/NEUT if you wanna kill nannos" actually have something instead of the useless hollow advice they generally spout. What good is a neut or a web that only reaches 12-13km when they orbit you from 19km plus? Useless!! It would make a one v one's in BC sized ships and smaller viable again. At this time only heavy neuts are viable, that means CCP is saying you need a BS to counter a nano cruiser. unbalanced in any stretch of the imagination
Currently if your caught by a nano ishtar in your 'tank' ishtar( replace 'ishtar' with any other ship in the game if you like that can be nannoed, same outcome ) your just dead, your web or your neut you so wisely fit is useless,(unless of course your using rare faction gear) and the nano knows this. Ships of the same class and race should not be invulnerable to each other just because of their speed.
2) Give the missiles that were designed to kill fast movers enough love to actually harm fast movers, either outright buff them or add skills to further increase expl velocity ect.
3) Seems to me nanos are here to stay. like it or not. If you guys are going to get what you want, = game balance, stop asking for what CCP clearly doesn't want to give and start asking for what they what they are more likely to give... skill sets designed to ACTUALLY counter an obvious imbalance.
Once a guys be-bopp'n thru the belts in his '********' ( place any ship under BS here )and gets jumped by a nano version of his same ship AND his training and fitting ACTUALLY either help him kill or escape his nanno counterpart without having to have a hugin/rapier/hyena in his back pocket you will see this nanno trend dry up to a large extent.
Now, BATHE YOUR WOMEN AND BRING THEM TO ME!! JVOL has spoken! :)
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El Mauru
Quantum Industries
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.21 07:59:00 -
[52]
Edited by: El Mauru on 21/06/2008 08:00:12
I think nanos are fine for the most part- would be nice if the whole invincibility factor was less tied to isk spent though :-P
How to achieve that? Beats me :-P
To stay that vague:
Wouldn't it be nice if there actually was a third "viable" niche next to blob/speed for fitting again?
Sth. that used to be e-war :-O
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.21 11:46:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Originally by: Tenuo
Edited by: Tenuo on 20/06/2008 15:16:18
Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: Tenuo
Edited by: Tenuo on 20/06/2008 13:24:29
Originally by: Dalek Commander
Because you can outrun missiles, and make tracking nearly useless when you go fast enough. Combat has broken down to either nano, or blob (remote reppers) in Eve. So gate camps = blob, and roaming gangs = nano.
I found your clue, you seem to have lost it.
Yes, they can outrun missiles, this is broken, therefore MISSILES should be fixed. I'm a fan of buffing, buffing does not **** people off, it does not screw with months of training and it does not make millions or billions of isk useless.
Second, I think you should go learn about TRACKING and how signature radius affects this.
Sig radius matters, but transversal/distance matters more I think, and nano lets you increase these.
Yes, but you'll light up at a sig radius over 3 time a battleship, about any medium turret will track you and 44% of a megathrons "on paper dps" will hit you when you go 4200m/s with 1300 sig radius, assuming megathron has null loaded. This at 22km.
To be fair though, 4200 m/s is a **** nano speed :/
Try getting ishtar/zealot to 4500 without snakes and faction gear and overloading or t2 rigs without sacrificing all too much (aka using all your low slots on the zealot for speed mods). for vagabond it's a **** speed but it's made to go veeery fast.
______________________________________________
Euriti - I'll continue my nerd forum rage! |
Nanetha
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Posted - 2008.06.21 11:51:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 20/06/2008 18:38:30
Originally by: Ephemeron
Edited by: Ephemeron on 20/06/2008 17:35:20
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: The Tzar
Because nano's are the only ships that can get away from the all too common hotdropping these days.
Introduce mobile cynojammers for HIC's and watch EvE go back to damage dealing rather than trying to avoid combat as a ships primary purpose.
Nice idea.
I'd like to see mobile cynojammers, similar to mobile bubbles, anchor it and it prevents caps from cynoing in your grid.
ok it could work if its effect is limited to grid-wide only
Mobile web bubbles, yes
Making blasterboats even worse again?
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Bronson Hughes
The. Conspiracy
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Posted - 2008.06.21 12:04:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Gantrithor105
But a) most people go faster than this, and b) most people orbit closer. Sig radius means nothing if the angular velocity is larger than the turret's tracking ability. You'll miss every time.
And c) most people orbiting closer can't go that fast, at least not in a stable orbit. They end up either slowing down or zooming past their target, both of which reduce their angular velocity. Combine that with a signature radius the size of Mount Rushmore, and they become easy targets for a short time.
Not to mention the fact that at 13km you have to start worrying about webs (further out if they've packing faction).
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.21 12:44:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
Originally by: Gantrithor105
Not to mention the fact that at 13km you have to start worrying about webs (further out if they've packing faction).
Yes and if the target has a functional brain you'll have to worry about range even more, it's a fine line between 15-16km (overloaded webs + target moving) and 24km when you are going that fast and with the maneuvrability of a cruiser, even tho you have istab/polys
______________________________________________
Euriti - I'll continue my nerd forum rage! |
Maroz Thrace
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Posted - 2008.06.21 12:53:00 -
[57]
sole reason i fly nano is as someone has already said u have to travel long distances sometimes to get a fight, and if i need to log off for wat ever reason, i have a very low chance of making it back alive, (yes scout etc, but i dont dual account) where as a nano is invincible to gate camps 99% of time and can travel much further without getting bored out of your mind
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Matrix Skye
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Posted - 2008.06.21 13:22:00 -
[58]
why fly nanos? because they're low risk pvp ships. the best tanked ships, and very easy to rake up kills for your killboard . a gang of nanos is pretty much invulnerable to anything but a very large specialized blob.
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Tankn00blicus
Cosmic Vacum Cleaners
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Posted - 2008.06.21 13:47:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Tankn00blicus on 21/06/2008 13:48:25
Originally by: JVol
1) make neuts and webs have more trainable skills. Skills to increase their range, their drain/web percentage. Sick of nanof*gs?? Then you spend a bit of time getting your t1 web/neut to hit 15-17km before you overheat it. THEN when the gents who scream, "FIT A WEB/NEUT if you wanna kill nannos" actually have something instead of the useless hollow advice they generally spout. What good is a neut or a web that only reaches 12-13km when they orbit you from 19km plus? Useless!! It would make a one v one's in BC sized ships and smaller viable again. At this time only heavy neuts are viable, that means CCP is saying you need a BS to counter a nano cruiser. unbalanced in any stretch of the imagination
Longer range web will kill the vaga, which technically doesn't speed tank, it buffer shield tanks, it cannot use its speed while engaging and even then doesn't do great dps. Its role is a hit-and-run ship and it shouldn't have game mechanics making that impossible to do so. However, the ships that hit-while-running like nano ishtars are abominations.
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Ikoras
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.06.21 14:53:00 -
[60]
Neuts > nano
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