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ETERNUM HAVEN
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Posted - 2008.06.22 00:34:00 -
[1]
Here is the thing. Caldari seem to make excellent mission runners. From what I can tell (and correct me if I am wrong) the Drake and Raven is hard to beet for missions. There excellent missile platforms, BUT, and here is the great big BUT with a capital "B", I am beginning to realize the sad truth that the missile-platform-mission-superiority all but UTTERLY disappears as soon as PVE become PVP. That is kind of disconcerting being that I am caldari and would like to try my hand eventually in other things. Lucky though my character is still young so I have other options with very little time lost.
That brings me here . . .
Tell me about PVP. I know about Eve's balanced structure (everything has a counter) but what are people using out there? Being that Eve has been around for sometime now you all must have it figured out, right :) I've read threads that suggest this and that but all in all there is no answer. My question IS NOT which is best, that question has been beaten into the dirt, my question IS what are real experienced players using in real PvP. And who is having the most success with what???
P.S. To add to this threads content, I would just liek to add that some have suggested that a Golem might make an excellent PvP ship, though I fail to see how its would be any better then a navy Raven. Any comments on that?
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Steakkbone
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2008.06.22 00:38:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Steakkbone on 22/06/2008 00:38:24
http://xbps.org/kb/?a=kill_related&kll_id=3817
Displays the most popular Caldari pvp ship.
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Blackjack OMalley
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.22 00:47:00 -
[3]
That's a whole lotta Kestrels!
He's right, however.
Give him back the knife, because the children of men have need of it |
coldplasma
The Revolutionary Guard
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Posted - 2008.06.22 00:48:00 -
[4]
Damage done (ISK):297.4M
Damage received (ISK):7.6M
/thread
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ETERNUM HAVEN
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Posted - 2008.06.22 00:58:00 -
[5]
nice feedback thanks. I'll take a look at that. :)
Keep the opinions coming. War stories are welcomed to . . .
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Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.06.22 00:58:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Steakkbone
Edited by: Steakkbone on 22/06/2008 00:38:24
http://xbps.org/kb/?a=kill_related&kll_id=3817
Displays the most popular Caldari pvp ship.
Aww, I want a EVE-dev based killboard for us Minmatars too, Battleclinic is hell to navigate.
Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
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madjacket
A Few Good Men.
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Posted - 2008.06.22 00:59:00 -
[7]
Yep over the past 5 years CCP has done everyting in it's power to curb people from joining cald race.
now in pve it is still ok but pvp it takes 150 torp ravens to match the DPS and tank of 25 Gall's mega's
so you can blame ccp for blobs also
HEHEHE
:) :)
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:02:00 -
[8]
Yes, because everyone posts their losses on that KB.
Originally by: Rachel Vend
... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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coldplasma
The Revolutionary Guard
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Franga
Yes, because everyone posts their losses on that KB.
it was a kestrel suicide fleet
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tarin adur
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:07:00 -
[10]
Edited by: tarin adur on 22/06/2008 01:08:14
Originally by: Steakkbone
Edited by: Steakkbone on 22/06/2008 00:38:24
http://xbps.org/kb/?a=kill_related&kll_id=3817
Displays the most popular Caldari pvp ship.
Abit innaccurate,
Gallente killboard
How it actually happened, all in all about 80 kills, most of them caldari, my smartbomb domi died, and some losses aren't posted...but alot more accurate then that one =)
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:08:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Franga
Yes, because everyone posts their losses on that KB.
at least we have a losses section
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Natasha Zenith
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Steakkbone
Edited by: Steakkbone on 22/06/2008 00:38:24
http://xbps.org/kb/?a=kill_related&kll_id=3817
Displays the most popular Caldari pvp ship.
Those wrecks were either named LEEEEROOOY or Jinkens fyi. Gallente dont know how to have fun.
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Allaria Kriss
Elipse Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:17:00 -
[13]
Your killboard is showing everyone on both sides as both friendly and hostile. Caldari has superior killboard technology!
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tarin adur
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:19:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Natasha Zenith
Originally by: Steakkbone
Edited by: Steakkbone on 22/06/2008 00:38:24
http://xbps.org/kb/?a=kill_related&kll_id=3817
Displays the most popular Caldari pvp ship.
Those wrecks were either named LEEEEROOOY or Jinkens fyi. Gallente dont know how to have fun.
I had a load of fun warping my smartbomb domi onto that kestrel swarm.
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Steve Celeste
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: tarin adur
I had a load of fun warping my smartbomb domi onto that kestrel swarm.
And i fell for it eventho the FC warned us, damn you! 
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tarin adur
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:25:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Steve Celeste
Originally by: tarin adur
I had a load of fun warping my smartbomb domi onto that kestrel swarm.
And i fell for it eventho the FC warned us, damn you!
Shame the lag was so bad,i only managed to turn on 5 of my smartbombs.
Good fun thought
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Spineker
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:31:00 -
[17]
The problem with Caldari and their 2 death to 1 kill ratio is that they gang up in stupid ships.
OF course missiles don't help any since they are gimped in PVP.
Missiles don't counter **** period. Some ships simply out run missiles not even think of Cruise or Torps.
Golem is useless in PVP totally.
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Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:37:00 -
[18]
Missiles are gimped in pvp cos of the whole nano fettish in small fights, and the flight time problem for fleet fights. In a close range but non nano fight (pretty rare these days unfortunatly) they do fine, they lack a bit in dps but don't have to worry about range as much as turret based ships. Not all caldari ships use missiles however, their ew ships are exceptionally usefull, and their rail plaforms have their uses. Their frigates actually benefit from using misiles (crow rocks).
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Spineker
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:39:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Doddy
Missiles are gimped in pvp cos of the whole nano fettish in small fights, and the flight time problem for fleet fights. In a close range but non nano fight (pretty rare these days unfortunatly) they do fine, they lack a bit in dps but don't have to worry about range as much as turret based ships. Not all caldari ships use missiles however, their ew ships are exceptionally usefull, and their rail plaforms have their uses. Their frigates actually benefit from using misiles (crow rocks).
Sure they rock ass when you can get in range and the target isn't going 4000 m/s
The problem is CCP has created a class of ships that totally makes many players pvp skills obsolete. Whole skill classes are useless.
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Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:41:00 -
[20]
Basically the OP is right. Because scramblers and webs have such short range, and fights tend to happen rather quickly, the advantages of missiles arent very useful in PVP...its not about doing good DPS at range, its about gank and go and theyre not so good at that. Also, since the aforementioned mods as well as EW conflict with shield tanking, Caldari has to sacrifice one where other races can (usually) armortank and run a few offensive or utility medslots at the same time.
On nanoships, its worth noting that pretty much all races have the same problem there, minus minmatar who just happen to have the one really effective anti-nano available.
Personally I would suggest getting decent caldari skills for PVE, because they are indeed very very very good at that, and picking either gallente or minmatar for PVP. Amarr is viable, but while the recent buffs have brought them more into line with other races they arent really standouts at anything.
_________________
[IMAGE REMOVED]
-- aka Cpt Bogus --
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
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Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:46:00 -
[21]
To be honest if you want to see what people are flying and what they are fitting you should go round the killboards, they probably give the best indication.
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Pattern Clarc
Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.06.22 01:51:00 -
[22]
Crow
Commorant
Harpy
Moa
Ferrox
Onyx
Egale
Falcon
Rook
Vulture
Rokh
Scorpion
Chimera
Wyvern
Thats a pretty decent line up of pvp ships if you ask me.
The funny thing about balance is that it doesn't actually exist |
ETERNUM HAVEN
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Posted - 2008.06.22 02:16:00 -
[23]
Edited by: ETERNUM HAVEN on 22/06/2008 02:17:27
Edited by: ETERNUM HAVEN on 22/06/2008 02:16:10
I WAS going to go Rokh but I heard it blowed big time in PVP. Is this true or false??
I know it snipes at range very good but all tanked up its probably going to be a floating brick. Fast ships will get under the guns and reek havoc (at least that is what I heard).
A Chimar is also on the table for me but thats pretty far away. And 1B ISK! Not sure what its advantages are other then its sheer Bulk in terms of structure. No doubt it will be hard to kill. (correct or in correct??)
SO . . . what is a good PVP set up. What talons should a good PVP ship have if not missiles???
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.06.22 02:20:00 -
[24]
Originally by: ETERNUM HAVEN
BUT, and here is the great big BUT with a capital "B"
And a UT as well apparently.
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Arkios Odymei
Incarnation of Evil
Nocturnal Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.22 02:50:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 22/06/2008 02:56:05
Originally by: Del Narveux
Personally I would suggest getting decent caldari skills for PVE, because they are indeed very very very good at that, and picking either gallente or minmatar for PVP. Amarr is viable, but while the recent buffs have brought them more into line with other races they arent really standouts at anything.
I actualy started Caldari, cross trained Gallente, and then went back to Caldari. I mostly fly Caldari nowadays, with a sprinkling of Amarr. Im well skilled in Gallente ships and combat aswell, but I dont use them as much any more. All PvP oriented btw.
Originally by: ETERNUM HAVEN
I WAS going to go Rokh but I heard it blowed big time in PVP. Is this true or false??
I know it snipes at range very good but all tanked up its probably going to be a floating brick. Fast ships will get under the guns and reek havoc (at least that is what I heard).
False. Throw a full rack of Neutron Blaster II's on that thing and load up some Null L to do decent blaster damage up to around 30km. Also, keep Navy AM in your hold for when targets are within 10km and you want to do 1000 DPS.
Its a tank&gank gang battleship. Dont fit tackle, let the tacklers take care of web and scram for you. Fit a MWD if you feel you need to, but all your midslots are for tank. Either Buffer tank it with with LSE IIs, Invuln Field IIs, and Extender Rigs OR Active tank it, which ever you feel will work the best (Both have their merits, but I usualy prefer buffer as the Rokh shines in larger groups and buffer lasts longer when called primary).
Oh and most importantly, I must again state that the Rokh is a GANG SHIP ONLY. You will deserve the death thats comes to you if you try to fly solo or in very small groups.
Originally by: ETERNUM HAVEN
A Chimar is also on the table for me but thats pretty far away. And 1B ISK! Not sure what its advantages are other then its sheer Bulk in terms of structure. No doubt it will be hard to kill. (correct or in correct??)
SO . . . what is a good PVP set up. What talons should a good PVP ship have if not missiles???
Dont worry about carriers right now. Focus on attainable goals for now. When you are able to determine by yourself if a carrier (or any cap ship) would be usefull for you, Only then will you actualy be ready to fly one.
The thing with most caldari ships (and many amarr ships aswell), is that they tend to function much better when in a group (compared other races ships in groups). Not to say that Gallente and Minmatar cant for a cohesive unit, but they tend to work better at much closer ranges, and the need for constant movement hinders their ability to quickly swithc targets and put all of their firepower to bear quickly. On the other hand, Gallente and Minnie ships tend to have the advantage of mobility and midslot versatility, which is why they usualy make for good small gang and solo ships. Any who, here is a quick list off the top of my head:
Torp Raven
Blaster Rokh
ANY ECM boat
Drakes when set up properly (aka-dont throw a warp disruptor on your mission drake and call it a PvP fit)
Blaster / Rail Ferox (Dont mix them on the same ship, heheh)
Rail Eagle
Cerberus
Crow
Blaster / Rail Harpy (see Ferox)
Dont know much abaout caldari T1 Cruisers and Frigs, as I tent to fly mostly top shelf gear.
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shubb123
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Posted - 2008.06.22 11:21:00 -
[26]
as for the smart bombing domi all you kill was about 5 kestrals before your domi melted lmao
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Noelle Fay
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.22 11:32:00 -
[27]
Yay I'm there too in the battle summary... that was one hell of a fight. but eventually I was able to save my pod
The problem I see is that the gallente dare using cruisers/bc/bs/t2 ships, while most caldari pilots keep on using krakals, kestrels and condors..
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
The secret to success, whether it's women or money, is knowing when to quit. I oughta know: I'm divorced and broke. |
My Julutschka
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.22 11:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: ETERNUM HAVEN
Tell me about PVP. I know about Eve's balanced structure (everything has a counter)
Yep everything has a counter, except you are really willing to win the day, than you nano up your ship and there wont be a counter anymore
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Iced Casing
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Posted - 2008.06.22 11:37:00 -
[29]
i thought this thread was about missile boats ! rokh doesent rally gets in that category sorry !! but trust me a really good player with a lot of skillpoints in missile specs can do a lot of damage see http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=24929 trust me a raven is hell when is properly used !
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Reana Z
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Posted - 2008.06.22 11:49:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Reana Z on 22/06/2008 11:50:31
Originally by: Iced Casing
i thought this thread was about missile boats ! rokh doesent rally gets in that category sorry !! but trust me a really good player with a lot of skillpoints in missile specs can do a lot of damage see http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=24929 trust me a raven is hell when is properly used !
So where's the raven uber dps on that link ?
Also funny , a gallente as top scorer on the caldari killboard.
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