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Ulviirala Vauryndar
Cohortes Stellaris
ParadoXon Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.22 16:05:00 -
[1]
At some point, I strongly believe, there were made changes to the asteroid growth rate. May it be a static change or may it be an automatic balancer, in princible like the balancer to set mission rewards and time bonus amount.
I can't tell if it's the majority of miners, which I suppose it is though, but at least a lot of people are complaining about the current state.
The current state seems to be overoperated belts all across high security systems with the current rate of growth and respawn. This even includes systems without stations already. Now I know there are classes that makes asteroid growth one, two or three times a week. I have yet to visit a systems with more than three times a week. These days will be Monday, Friday and Wednesday during downtime.
You barely find a belt that is actually worth to start mining. It's not unusual that you need to put asteroids in your overview to actually find them from the warp-in point but it's worse. Because it's not unusual either that my b*lls are bigger than the Veldspar roids found in these belts.
If it wasn't enough for the high sec wannabe pirates, one can't just go to lowsec and expect to mine there peacefully at all. This is not meant for "goto lowsec or 0.0" trolling. I'm pretty much annoyed after scouting a dozen of low population systems.
Unfortunately, your signature is not 22239 bytes, it exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches
I fail, regards to Cortes - Ulvi |
Ishina Fel
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.06.22 16:53:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 22/06/2008 16:54:41
The problem lies not with a low roid regrowth rate. The problem lies with the ever-increasong population in EVE, most of which feel no desire to move on to lowsec or 0.0, where belts are huge and plentiful (but unsafe).
It is an issue of risk vs reward. For the longest time, it was possible to make decent profits in highsec space, profits even compareable to 0.0 mining, simply by virtue of the fact that you don't have to pay attention to who enters the system. You don't need friends to guard you, those friends can all mine as well. You also have easily accessible infrastructure, with stations in 99% of all systems instead of having just one station for 15 jumps of space.
However, with highsec population increasing, that simply isn't possible anymore, because everyone wants to do it - and there's not enough ore. But is upping the regrowth rate the answer? Nope. In fact, it is about high time that the risk/reward ratio is shifted more in favor of lowsec.
CCP can't honestly be providing resources for an unlimited number of people in highsec. EVE is not that kind of game. EVE is a game about limited resources, and the warfare to obtain them. EVE is about a real economy and the laws of supply and demand. Also, too many people in highsec causes too much server burden.
In the future, more people will have to move to lowsec/0.0, and it is good like that. I'm not telling you to move to lowsec, because whether you do it or not is irrelevant. There needs to be an incentive for a large section of the population to move on. A reason to band together in a corp, and provide each other with the security that was previously supplied by CONCORD. And the only incentive there can be for this is the rarity of ores in highsec, and the possible rise of mineral prices that comes with it.
People will flock only to where the profits lie. The market is the one big equalizer.
And it always regulates itself.
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Ulviirala Vauryndar
Cohortes Stellaris
ParadoXon Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.22 19:08:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Ulviirala Vauryndar on 22/06/2008 19:13:54
Yes, for the most it was what I said, just not underlined it much. The systems are overoperated for the current supply of asteroids.
What I can't agree on is that you can compare high sec mining profits to 0.0 mining profits. That is off the scale by far. By the current market prices, Kernite would be the most profitable ore in high sec with about 150,000 ISK per min (for me). While high ores (Crokite to Arkonor) vary between 720,000 ISK to 910,000 ISK, even more with the named variants. Since you don't have constantly Kernite for 5 hours (45 million ISK), you don't get there. On the other hand there's plenty in 0.0 because of less miners.
Far off the scale.
Earning reasonable amounts of ISK is a lot of work, even more with high sec mining and this situation. Also, you can't do jetcan mining as mentioned, it's everywhere you'd need protection and serious ppl to get you "safe". It's not without risk in any place, not counting kamikaze but all that wasn't meant to be the point of it either.
In the beginning, New Eden was a vastly large place where you may not have seen someone in days. Mining equipment wasn't that advanced in technology but belts where plentiful everywhere, I can imagine. Now space is really crowded and I bet you don't find a system with stations that is uninhabitated. Maybe it's time to act accordingly to the constant growth in population.
Corporations ain't faceless and blunt tools for me, I don't hop from the one to the other as it was nothing just to exploit them for my personal desires. It's social interaction really and I like my mates really, really much. Even though they are not that altruistic that they always are around to protect me or others in low sec and don't play the game to have fun for themselves, I don't just leave and go elsewhere. Also Hedbergite isn't really worth the trouble.
So you may have a point if you wanted to hint at low sec ores not being reward enough 
Unfortunately, your signature is not 22239 bytes, it exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches
I fail, regards to Cortes - Ulvi |
Tharri
Tharri and Co.
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Posted - 2008.06.22 20:49:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Ulviirala Vauryndar
If it wasn't enough for the high sec wannabe pirates, one can't just go to lowsec and expect to mine there peacefully at all. This is not meant for "goto lowsec or 0.0" trolling. I'm pretty much annoyed after scouting a dozen of low population systems.
Why not, if you don't prefer to go afk and watch a movie while munching the roids?
There's lots of dead-empty lowsec systems where the size of veld balls are compareable to small moons, and they're rather safe as long as you keep your eyes open and stay aligned incase some random pirate actually bothers to scan you. Usually the people in local are just passing by, or macrohaulers.
Hisec is much worse with all those canflipping kiddies.
Oh, and those systems don't usually have stations, but that shouldn't be a problem if you have an alt or a friend for hauling.
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Creh Ester
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Posted - 2008.06.22 21:34:00 -
[5]
I have only mined 3 times this year so I'm not really on top of the situation. But yes, one reason that I haven't mined so much is maybe that I thought the belts seemed not so worthwhile.
Too many miners in high sec someone suggested?
Maybe, but I don't really see that many miners in action either?
I remember my "childhood" well. There used to be a couple of miners in every belt, lot's of cheerful chatting in local and the belts were big and juicy and didn't appear much worse for wear when you quit and left.
And they were there the next day as well. And next week.
Today a miner in a belt means that the belt will be depleted in hours. Two miners in a belt mean some degree of annoyance due to the conflicting greeds.
I don't know but I think CCP have changed seeding a lot over the years.
Likely there is some kind of balancing or control ambition behind in that case.
When I lived in 0.0 I experienced pretty much the same. But it's really difficult to compare since the ores were manually seeded in the 0.0 region I lived in and that may largely have been the cause. Anyway, mining was crap there too. The valuable stuff was depleted immediately and then you were basically reduced to mining the same stuff as in high sec. Poor incentive to move to 0.0. But yea, I know, I know, I was in the wrong place.
I think CCP must have some aim with this. Competition for limited resources? Maybe, maybe. There are a few question marks on that one though. Why is that desirable now with more players around? And not earlier?
Incentive to move to low sec? Don't be ridiculous. Even if they took away all ore from high sec it's still not viable to mine in low sec. Don't get me wrong. I have mined in low sec. Quite a bit too. But that was in my "youth" when the sort of earning levels you could get from mining in a slippery, robust and disposable cruiser were all right. Today I would starve at those levels. Getting killed these days is so expensive. The cost of the clone alone  .
Incentive to move to 0.0? Erm, there are a few problems here. It does seem like CCP thinks we should do that, and that we should think 0.0 gameplay is great fun. That much is hinted from blogs and interviews. But I wonder how well they have really considered this?
My problems are basically two. You can't move to 0.0 without becoming part of a 0.0 alliance agenda. I experienced a series of incidents relating to that fact, that was absolutely repulsive. I watched impotently as an irresponsible clique of clique players moved into and around alliance leadership, apparently only by the power of knowing other clique players personally, ruining everything for everyone that had invested countless hours.
Sure, every alliance is maybe not like that. But I believe the main problem might be that game mechanics allow alliances to control vast areas. But doesn't allow a corp/alliance to control any area, not even their own system, really well. We'd get more agendas into play and better politics if game mechanics were different. And we'd get more people moving into 0.0 by their own power. 0.0 is empty. Plenty space. But no room. Main obstacle is the wide power the game mechanics give alliances and the establishment of clique players.
CCPs basic assumption is wrong. You can't move into 0.0. You can become someones serf in 0.0. But you can't move yourself and your own agenda into 0.0.
My second problem with 0.0 gameplay is that your collective security make huge demands. Demands that can only be met by grinding countless hours. Whatever you do can always be topped by another alliance putting in even more hours. Competition in 0.0 is essentially a team competition in shoveling gravel. With predictable pressures.
- It's not good enough for me! CCP can take their F* 0.0 gameplay mechanics and shove it where the sun doesn't shine!
I refuse to spend a large part of my life on utter crap like that. I can do so many better things instead.
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Ishina Fel
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.06.22 22:16:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 22/06/2008 22:18:19
Originally by: Ulviirala Vauryndar
Far off the scale.
I'm sorry, but you can't calculate it like that. Anyone who's actually mined out in 0.0 will tell you why - for starters, I'll list some points here:
- High end ore is actually in rather short supply. We're talking about between 10 and 30 min mining (with a hulk, granted) for 1 rock, and about 3-5 rocks in a belt filled mostly with mid-range ores and humongous half-million unit rocks of veldspar.
- In highsec, any self-respecting miner has a 100% refine, 0% tax station close by. In 0.0, not only stations are few and far between (although it's getting better these days), but they also may not have proper refineries (the best are 15% worse than empire, and not all stations have the best). In addition, alliaces that own these stations generally set a tax, which is used to finance such things as POS fuel for the towers that hold sov, and so on. And there's no avoiding that tax... unless, of course you want to refine at a POS, which has a flat 30% waste factor that can't be improved with skills.
- The markets are utter crap. What use is it if you mine crokite and reprocess it into tons of zydrine, if the local builders need umpteen times that amount in tritanium, pyerite, mexallon, isogen and noxcium to actually use any zydrine? And everyone else only mines crokite as well? Expect to get around half price for your high-ends in deep 0.0 tops - and if you own a jump freighter and move the stuff yourself, expect to pay two-digit million sums in fuel costs per round-trip. Oh, and invest a couple billion in the ship first.
All in all, if you mine high-ends, you can usually pull 2.5 to 3 times the revenue of empire veldspar (after refining, taxes, bad prices and all that jazz) for around 3-6 hours until a system is dry. Afterwards, you can either move on to another system that is even further away from any sort of infrastructure, or mine the higher mid-range ores that yield around 2 times empire veldspar revenue, if even that much. The prices for these ores have crashed hard ever since the drone regions went and flooded the market with isogen and noxcium.
It is noticeably more ISK, yes, but it is hardly "far off the scale", considering that you're not only getting shot by (up to) triple battleship NPC spawns, but also by random hostiles roaming through. Unless, of course, you brought friends.
Ratting in 0.0 is generally more profitable than mining in 0.0, by the way.
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prsr
JuBa Corp
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.06.22 23:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ishina Fel
Ratting in 0.0 is generally more profitable than mining in 0.0, by the way.
What a choice eh, npc'ing with instant cash bounties, or mining and making an undefined amount of isk which will only arrive in your wallet after you finally get the minerals on an empire market. Thats assuming you can actually get those minerals sold for a decent price, which is a whole seperate issue by itself when you're dealing with the stacks of zydrine that mining corps can produce when they are trying to make some isk.
--
.sig apathy ftw |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.22 23:30:00 -
[8]
"Scouting lowsec" and "living in lowsec" is a "two big differences".
You can scout around 10 systems and never see any man present in local, but try to stop for a few hours - and you'll see that your system periodically checked by pirates, and once they realize you are mining there, they will set a camp or get you warm on landing pad and you'll just die.
--
Thanks CCP for cu |
Ulviirala Vauryndar
Cohortes Stellaris
ParadoXon Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.23 08:00:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Ulviirala Vauryndar on 23/06/2008 08:01:21
Originally by: Ishina Fel
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 22/06/2008 22:18:19
Originally by: Ulviirala Vauryndar
Far off the scale.
I'm sorry, but you can't calculate it like that. Anyone who's actually mined out in 0.0 will tell you why - for starters, I'll list some points here:[...]
Well, it's bad if asteroid belts are not mined properly. If people start mining only ore X, then chances over time are that of the 20 ore X asteroids originally in place, only 8 of 20 respawned at a later time. That's why some alliances in the past carefully set rules to grow up belts. That is, do not deplete high ore asteroids.
The stations have a 30% base yield, which is a drop in the ocean if you don't have the proper skills but there's always someone. So maybe I've been lucky that alliance members didn't pay refine taxes back then, residents usually do. Intensive refining arrays have at least 75% yield which is not that bad but its limitations suck pretty much. :)
The 0.0 market sure doesn't offer the juicy prices for high minerals than in empire, supply and demand in these places are different. But still, if you don't mine 24/7, regardless if in empire or 0.0, but say a week per month and then do smth else to have fun, you have a way larger profit and it's not that much of a boring or tedious time. The difficulties of logistics ain't that big todays, as of late I don't know of any alliance that can't provide transportation with capitals or jump freighters. Oh my, I'd also use my blockade runner. Once you've established in 0.0 it's not that much of a delay in bargain which is rather much.
I mean, stepping up the spawn rate is not a question of providing unlimited resources. Resources are indeed unlimited anyways, what IS limited is the amount you can provide at any given time in an area. But this amount is exhausted.
I don't want to say "it is the way I say it is", this is my opinion on how I see things right now :)
Everyone relies on that amount that could be provided years ago, but now we are a multiple of it and demands are ever increasing. It may be time to change something accordingly to the evergrowing playerbase, thus demand of resources... and annoyed miners, facepalming at the view of empire belts 
Mission running is not subject to that, but for the lag hehe, but missions always have the same NPC with the same static bounty. You can improve LP gain and mission reward with skills, similar to industry skills and mining. Also your agent will always have a mission for you. But imagine if agents had a limited number of missions with the current number of players, maybe you would fly around New Eden in a desperate search for an agent which hands you out more than one or two missions or isn't depleted? 
Maybe CCP should have changed the asteroid belt thing with Revelations, even as rumours said, it would have been a side-effect of something else. Belts that could be scanned down with the On-Board scanner like anomalies, belts that are plentyful and juicy again. No, I don't mean the gravimetric exploration signatures. They are rather rare, hard to find and more "rewarding" (if they mineral prices weren't that much of a mess  )
But to stay on-topic, why do you think it's not necessary to change something regarding asteroid growth in high security systems? These pebbles annoy me more by the day, let's change the name into "Pebble Belt with Mineral residues II - 3".
Unfortunately, your signature is not 22239 bytes, it exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches
I fail, regards to Cortes - Ulvi |
Artemis Rose
Eleckrostatik
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Posted - 2008.06.23 09:07:00 -
[10]
There are plenty of asteroid roids in high sec systems in systems that are "off the beaten path". The farther you get from the starter systems, the better they'll be. But yes, as the Eve population grows, High sec is going to get more and more crowded, and I don't think boosting high sec resources is the way Eve needs to be going.
__________________________________________________
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat. |
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Pseudo Sasaya
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Posted - 2008.06.23 17:19:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Creh Ester
I don't know but I think CCP have changed seeding a lot over the years.
Likely there is some kind of balancing or control ambition behind in that case.
I am guessing that they have in fact not balanced things out yet and are still dealing with the effects of all those hulks on the market. There are too many miner with too good of equipment and the belts can't keep up.
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Sphynx Stormlord
Snuff inc
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Posted - 2008.06.23 23:11:00 -
[12]
Asteroid growth rate is ridiculous; asteroids should not grow at all, especially not every week.
Eve, however, is a game, and asteroids do grow. And missions spawn lots of roids. And lowsec is full of huge roids (and pirates, but the roids are there).
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El Mauru
Quantum Industries
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.24 01:55:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord
... And missions spawn lots of roids...
This :-P
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.06.24 06:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Pseudo Sasaya
Originally by: Creh Ester
I don't know but I think CCP have changed seeding a lot over the years.
Likely there is some kind of balancing or control ambition behind in that case.
I am guessing that they have in fact not balanced things out yet and are still dealing with the effects of all those hulks on the market. There are too many miner with too good of equipment and the belts can't keep up.
I have the doubt that there is a fixed amount of minerals for each region.
Low sec asteroids aren't mined but continue to grow and high sec roids are mined, so step by step a larger percentage of the minerals is located in low sec and a smaller quantity in high sec. If that is true it can explain why the regrowth rate seem to have lessened: only what has been mined respawn and a percentage of it respawn in low sec. .
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Jaketh Ivanes
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.06.24 12:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Pseudo Sasaya
Originally by: Creh Ester
I don't know but I think CCP have changed seeding a lot over the years.
Likely there is some kind of balancing or control ambition behind in that case.
I am guessing that they have in fact not balanced things out yet and are still dealing with the effects of all those hulks on the market. There are too many miner with too good of equipment and the belts can't keep up.
Is it supposed to keep up?
By not increasing roid regrowth, it forces miners to look at low sec system or to declare war on rival mining corporations for control of the systems. To me, that sounds like a good idea (not matching roid growth with miner's capacity). Yes, some players will be shafted, but they can always do missions, and mine the missions afterwards.
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Thirzarr
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Posted - 2008.06.24 13:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ishina Fel
where belts are huge and plentiful (but unsafe).
There is a difference between "unsafe" and "suicidal". I tried to go to lowsec lately... you will NOT find a system to stay in for more than one hour.
Yes, there is a little too much populance in empire. But not only there. Lowsec is crowded, too. And 0.0? Well... its occupied.
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.06.24 17:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ishina Fel
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 22/06/2008 16:54:41
The problem lies not with a low roid regrowth rate. The problem lies with the ever-increasong population in EVE, most of which feel no desire to move on to lowsec or 0.0, where belts are huge and plentiful (but unsafe).
It is an issue of risk vs reward. For the longest time, it was possible to make decent profits in highsec space, profits even compareable to 0.0 mining, simply by virtue of the fact that you don't have to pay attention to who enters the system. You don't need friends to guard you, those friends can all mine as well. You also have easily accessible infrastructure, with stations in 99% of all systems instead of having just one station for 15 jumps of space.
However, with highsec population increasing, that simply isn't possible anymore, because everyone wants to do it - and there's not enough ore. But is upping the regrowth rate the answer? Nope. In fact, it is about high time that the risk/reward ratio is shifted more in favor of lowsec.
CCP can't honestly be providing resources for an unlimited number of people in highsec. EVE is not that kind of game. EVE is a game about limited resources, and the warfare to obtain them. EVE is about a real economy and the laws of supply and demand. Also, too many people in highsec causes too much server burden.
In the future, more people will have to move to lowsec/0.0, and it is good like that. I'm not telling you to move to lowsec, because whether you do it or not is irrelevant. There needs to be an incentive for a large section of the population to move on. A reason to band together in a corp, and provide each other with the security that was previously supplied by CONCORD. And the only incentive there can be for this is the rarity of ores in highsec, and the possible rise of mineral prices that comes with it.
People will flock only to where the profits lie. The market is the one big equalizer.
And it always regulates itself.
You are right except that high sec missions provides an endless supply of isk, mods and materials that completely ruins the concept of limited resources and risk/reward.
And thats one of the reasons why highsec is so populated.
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foobarx
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Posted - 2008.06.25 01:30:00 -
[18]
I second the "suicidal" remark. Hardly anyone mines in lowsec anymore, so if you do try to do some solo mining near empire space you'll stand out like a sore thumb. If you count the extra precautions you need to take and the number of ships you lose over time, highsec is still much, much more profitable.
More profitable than 0.0, too, unless your situation is just right. In addition to the problems mentioned above, most smaller alliances are paying rent to the owners. Where I was until recently, the locals forbade buy orders for minerals by "renters". All the good rocks in systems with facities were regularly mined out, and large nano pirate gangs swept through the sytems quite regularly. And when they catch you in 0.0 you lose your implants.
If it were up to me I would actually spawn fewer 'roids in highsec so the risk/reward ratio was balanced a bit more toward lowsec.
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Carniflex
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.06.25 12:17:00 -
[19]
I see 2 possible solutions for your situation (not mentioning low sec/0.0 ones as you made clear that you are not interested in that)
1) Exploration belts in hi sec, they are mostly veldspar. Altho it takes some effort to find them. Or mining in missions.
2) Moving into some other activity with better tolerance for local population density, like missions.
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Ulviirala Vauryndar
Cohortes Stellaris
ParadoXon Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.25 12:46:00 -
[20]
This is what I call an "Asteroid Belt". A corp mate and me in an actual internet asteroid belt of a lonely 0.7 system :P It's a very old screenshot and by the time you had to travel far to get such a juicy sight.
Most missions have Velspar, a hell lot of it but very scattered. Some (level 4s) have indeed various types of roids and large quantities of ore. You need to be lucky though and need to clear the mission first, maybe spend approaching stuff half an hour.
Exploration belts are not necessarily an every-day find, they yield Kernite, Omber, Jaspet, Hedbergite and Hemorphite for the most parts. Also you still desync in exploration sites which is known since it was first introduced.
"Plenty of roids" are everywhere indeed, plenty of very smal ones. As I said, this is also true for systems "off the beaten path" and it is also true for systems without stations. I'm currently at a bunch of stationless systems and no belt is anywere close to the screenshot above.
Unfortunately, your signature is not 22239 bytes, it exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches
I fail, regards to Cortes - Ulvi |
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Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.25 15:13:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 25/06/2008 15:15:29
Well my alliance tries to encourage neutral miners and ratters to our belts (which are rent free). Trouble is most 0.0 alliances can't be bothered to implement renter schemes or provide security, so belts go untappped
The problem is not in respawn rates, but in the distribution of "safe" areas to mine in. Basically too many miners in too small a space
Edit: The other problem is it costs some ludicrous amount of isk (69 bil) to get a refinery up to 50% at an outpost to even compete with Empire NPC stations. So even if you want to encourage miners to a 0.0 region, they are going to look at the low refine yields and high trit prices, combined with no tax after a little standings grind, and go "no thanks"
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Blydchyld
Galactic Extensive Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.06.25 15:46:00 -
[22]
I always thought it was simple.
you mine in empire till you know how too mine and can afford the better gear and have the skills.
Then you come too low sec and mine mercoxit in the uber skiffs.
Guess i was wrong :X
I LIKE ARK!
The above post is my post and does not represent the views of any entity, If my views have upset you PM me |
Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.06.25 17:25:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
Is it supposed to keep up?
By not increasing roid regrowth, it forces miners to look at low sec system or to declare war on rival mining corporations for control of the systems. To me, that sounds like a good idea (not matching roid growth with miner's capacity). Yes, some players will be shafted, but they can always do missions, and mine the missions afterwards.
It is hard to say. EvE is such a weird mix of fixed resources and magic infinite ones.
The player-base is always increasing and the amount of ore each individual can slurp up also increases over time.
It does, however, slowly decrease the play options open to solo players. I know EvE is supposed to be a 'group' game, but one can not help but notice it used to have more room for lone-wolf style operations.
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.06.25 18:10:00 -
[24]
Originally by: foobarx
I second the "suicidal" remark. Hardly anyone mines in lowsec anymore, so if you do try to do some solo mining near empire space you'll stand out like a sore thumb. If you count the extra precautions you need to take and the number of ships you lose over time, highsec is still much, much more profitable.
It is probably about time for ORE to release some T2 ninja mining ships. Lower yield but better suited to low-sec without needing 'friends' along (who are unlikly to stop an attack before it pops your barge anyway)
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VheroKai
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.25 21:40:00 -
[25]
Solution for lowsec mining is simple - kill Heavy Dictors scanres when they are equipped with field generator and remove range bonus on focusing script.
Let them lock supercapitals in reasonable time, but nothing smaller.
They were introduced as supercapital tacklers? Let it be. But not solopwnmobiles as they are now.
--sig--
Originally by: Bunyip
The LOLqual is a capital-sized joke
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2008.06.25 22:01:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Carniflex
1) Exploration belts in hi sec, they are mostly veldspar. Altho it takes some effort to find them. Or mining in missions.
Sadly, mostly Omber.
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Lyria Skydancer
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.06.26 14:52:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ulviirala Vauryndar
At some point, I strongly believe, there were made changes to the asteroid growth rate. May it be a static change or may it be an automatic balancer, in princible like the balancer to set mission rewards and time bonus amount.
I can't tell if it's the majority of miners, which I suppose it is though, but at least a lot of people are complaining about the current state.
The current state seems to be overoperated belts all across high security systems with the current rate of growth and respawn. This even includes systems without stations already. Now I know there are classes that makes asteroid growth one, two or three times a week. I have yet to visit a systems with more than three times a week. These days will be Monday, Friday and Wednesday during downtime.
You barely find a belt that is actually worth to start mining. It's not unusual that you need to put asteroids in your overview to actually find them from the warp-in point but it's worse. Because it's not unusual either that my b*lls are bigger than the Veldspar roids found in these belts.
If it wasn't enough for the high sec wannabe pirates, one can't just go to lowsec and expect to mine there peacefully at all. This is not meant for "goto lowsec or 0.0" trolling. I'm pretty much annoyed after scouting a dozen of low population systems.
Go to low sec or 0.0 and stop complaining.
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[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Ulviirala Vauryndar
Cohortes Stellaris
ParadoXon Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.26 16:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Go to low sec or 0.0 and stop complaining.
Rabble rabble rabble and rabble rabble, stop posting.
Unfortunately, your signature is not 22239 bytes, it exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches
I fail, regards to Cortes - Ulvi |
Vex Morga
Relentless Storm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.06.26 16:55:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ulviirala Vauryndar
This is what I call an "Asteroid Belt".
Never really noticed it before... but i used to find belts like that everywhere when i 1st started playing... your right things certainly have changed... a 10man mining op then might clear 2 belts in 2hrs... now im finding im clearing 2 belts with 2 toons in the same ammount of time.
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Rakaim
Gallente
Rising Federation
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Posted - 2008.06.27 06:58:00 -
[30]
As Sphynx Stormlord put it, Missions spawn Roids.
There you have it. I've found Veld, Scor, and Omber in missions. It's worth as much as High Sec mining at least.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.06.27 11:12:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ulviirala Vauryndar
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Go to low sec or 0.0 and stop complaining.
Rabble rabble rabble and rabble rabble, stop posting.
Im sorry but eve isnt crowded if there are several areas that are void of population like low sec. If you think it is crowded, go somewhere else. If you dont like to go there, dont complain about it being crowded. Eve universe as a whole is big enough.
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[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Hatch
Minmatar
Bug-Blatter Beasts of Traal
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Posted - 2008.06.27 17:05:00 -
[32]
he's too chicken**** to mine in low sec
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.06.27 18:25:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Hatch
he's too chicken**** to mine in low sec
Given the poor tanking/escape ability of barges (outside the hulk maybe) can one really blame him?
Combat mechanics heavily favor the attacker, and mining defenders are already at a significant disadvantage. Frigate/Cruiser/BS mining is a bit more viable but the number of times you have to jump from belt to station rapidly makes it not worth it. One could also bring a gang that MIGHT be able to kill the attacker before they pop your paper-thin barge but again it is not much extra reward (if any) requiring more people to accomplish.
Every lowsec system I run through I see giant 'roid belts. They are so because no one mines them.
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Stakhanov
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.06.28 12:05:00 -
[34]
Nerf highsec L4s.
Those are virtually unlimited (agents will give more missions no matter how many people lag the system) and cause a significant influx of high end minerals with refined loot.
Without readily available high end minerals in highsec , lowsec and 0.0 mining would become profitable again. And people would assemble mining ops as they used to.
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Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.28 13:21:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Stakhanov
Nerf highsec L4s.
Those are virtually unlimited (agents will give more missions no matter how many people lag the system) and cause a significant influx of high end minerals with refined loot.
Without readily available high end minerals in highsec , lowsec and 0.0 mining would become profitable again. And people would assemble mining ops as they used to.
Actually, it'd be better to not nerf the missions, but the loot.
Atm, there is no point in manufacturing T1 ever because people can get better mods than what anyone can manufacture by doing a few crappy missions or killing some belt rats and getting meta/named mods
If there were some extra cost to "repair" looted meta mods before they could be used, and no meta 1 T1 mods were dropped (only drone compound style loot), then there might be more demand for T1 manu, more opportunities for manufacturers and more demand for minerals
---
But the real problem is security. It is a lot harder to create than destroy in Eve and most miners are, quite rightly, doing risk vs reward and cost analysis on mining in low sec and seeing it just isn't worth it
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.06.28 17:46:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Hatch
he's too chicken**** to mine in low sec
Actually with the price of trit its mostly simply smarter to mine in high sec as you earn more cash with much less risk and a lot less hassle.
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Creh Ester
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Posted - 2008.06.29 12:30:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Stakhanov
Nerf highsec L4s.
Those are virtually unlimited (agents will give more missions no matter how many people lag the system) and cause a significant influx of high end minerals with refined loot.
Without readily available high end minerals in highsec , lowsec and 0.0 mining would become profitable again. And people would assemble mining ops as they used to.
That 0.0 mining would become more profitable again seems credible to me.
But I'm very unsure why that is relevant at all or to what it is relevant.
As for lowsec mining, that's IMO nonsens. A few years ago I was on some well equipped and well organized alliance lowsec mining ops. It is my perception that changing game mechanics & economics have made such operations even less viable since.
Anyway: Mining yield is down all the way to something between 10% and 50% for the invested time, due to the mining operation becoming disturbed. Factor in that you need a lot of pilots in combat support instead of miners & haulers. Finally add the cost of a few ship losses. Result: Crap!
A lowsec operation inevitably attracts attention. It's an excellent opportunity for lots of PvP fun. People quickly call around and assemble a party. They will mostly know exactly the predispositions and what they need.
(This is strictly not theoretically relevant but to make matters worse: The combat support team will fairly early become bored and decide to go ratting. "Call us if there is a need". Then some 15 minutes into the ratting they will decide that there is no harm in checking out the next system. ...And next...)
Realistic lowsec mining is IMO something else. Lowprofile, quiet single man operations in affordable getaway cruisers. But then income/time is on a completely different scale. To ask that older EVE players should do that with their game time is simply crazy.
I find a lot of the risk/reward suggestions popping up in many forum threads utterly unrealistic. I don't understand why. What is lacking in peoples thinking ability? Are they so blinded by their own brilliant understanding of the risk/reward concept that they don't realize that there has to be a reward at all? It often seems so.
In real life we have to work to support ourself. The same is true about EVE. (Unfortunately EVE is founded on a grind play concept). But while we have to live in RL, we don't have to play EVE. There has to be a reason. People who think they can move players around in EVE with the more shallower risk/reward schemes often appears to have completely forgotten that. They seem to assume that players will be forced to do whatever to be able to sustain themselves. Already here we have an enormous failure of EVE. But that is a very big subject and not directly on topic so I'll just leave you with one thing to pounder:
One of very few things I've found actually enjoyable to do for its own sake is to fly L2 missions in a T1 frig. Do I do it? - No! I need to forward myself so I need to do L2s quickly so I can raise my standings with the corp. Or I need to do L4s to make isk. Or something else. The needs that EVE already put on game time are so great there is little room for luxury play. And every change that CCP makes since and including Revelation seems to make that situation worse!
Why? Have they lost their minds? What are they aiming for?
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sliver 0xD
exiles.
The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2008.06.29 14:25:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ulviirala Vauryndar
Now I know there are classes that makes asteroid growth one, two or three times a week. I have yet to visit a systems with more than three times a week. These days will be Monday, Friday and Wednesday during downtime.
they respawn after a set time. not after dt but also in the midle of the game.
time it right and you should be able to farm it beter.
also the hole object of roids running out is to get more players into 0.0 and lowsec. all the good experienced players are still mining the roids that are ment for the new players.
you are all complaining about it but you should thank yourselfs for it. |
Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.06.29 16:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Creh Ester
As for lowsec mining, that's IMO nonsens. A few years ago I was on some well equipped and well organized alliance lowsec mining ops. It is my perception that changing game mechanics & economics have made such operations even less viable since.
Anyway: Mining yield is down all the way to something between 10% and 50% for the invested time, due to the mining operation becoming disturbed. Factor in that you need a lot of pilots in combat support instead of miners & haulers. Finally add the cost of a few ship losses. Result: Crap!
A lowsec operation inevitably attracts attention. It's an excellent opportunity for lots of PvP fun. People quickly call around and assemble a party. They will mostly know exactly the predispositions and what they need.
(This is strictly not theoretically relevant but to make matters worse: The combat support team will fairly early become bored and decide to go ratting. "Call us if there is a need". Then some 15 minutes into the ratting they will decide that there is no harm in checking out the next system. ...And next...)
I think the idea is that you establish an alliance with a decent intel channel and try to take over and control an area of lowsec. However then you might as well go for 0.0 where the profits are much better and where the tools to control an area of space is better. |
Creh Ester
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Posted - 2008.06.29 17:24:00 -
[40]
Originally by: sliver 0xD
also the hole object of roids running out is to get more players into 0.0 and lowsec. all the good experienced players are still mining the roids that are ment for the new players.
Maybe. I certainly don't understand CCP. And the case that I think you might be right well illustrates that. Because if you're right it kinda raises more questions than it answers.
If limiting spawning in highsec means the experienced players vacuum up all the roids that are meant for the new players: - Why is that a good thing for EVE?
If limiting spawning means that there will be an 'early bird' competition for time slots, that will heavily discriminate against certain players (time zones, job, etc): - Why is that a good thing for EVE?
Why would less highsec ore mean that more players would move into 0.0?
Because they would earn better? Industry is limited by either absolute available financing or minerals. In either case: limiting trit availability will not only raise value of trit but also lower value of hi grade minerals. Because they're not needed to the same extent any more. So limiting highsec ore won't necessarily shift more earning advantage into 0.0.
And you already earn much better in 0.0 than in hisec. It appears that earning isk is not the sole motivating factor. And that there is some kind of rejection of 0.0 gameplay. From that aspect it's hard to undestand why reducing ore in hisec would cause people to move.
And is getting more people into 0.0 the only thing CCP have got going for themselves? Why is that the miracle medicine that will solve all of EVE's problems?
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Jawas
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.06.29 17:43:00 -
[41]
With low respawn rates and far less profit from mining in general than most other trades, it's hard to get newer players into mining now. Who wants to sit in a belt for 10 million per hour at most when they could be earning twice that doing missions or ratting?
A freshly respawned belt after being mined out completely takes me a little over an hour to mine out again. Total return is just 12 million isk and that's considering I have perfect refine skills and good standings so the station doesn't take any. You can imagine the disappointmet of a new player earning half that due to poor refine skills and low standings while their friends earn twice that even if they are only doing lvl3 missions.
It's really just pushing mining into the macro bot hands. I bet the macro users are rubbing their hands with glee at the ever decreasing number of real player miners out there taking the roids from the belts.
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Creh Ester
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Posted - 2008.06.29 17:45:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Esmenet
I think the idea is that you establish an alliance with a decent intel channel and try to take over and control an area of lowsec.
Been there, done that. Before Revelation that was possible (and fun) thanks to the 5/10 plexes. The earnings you could get from those made all the wasted hours and vast losses acceptable. But even then you couldn't accomplish security enough for undisturbed mining. Being constantly present in force and trying to control a system works much as a standing invitation for PvP parties. And they always get to prepare themselves well and decide time and place. But it was possible. Thanks to the 5/10 plexes. Not for mining. But for plex farming.
I have actually seen CCP suggest that lowsec should be policed by players. But that represents such total cluelessness about their own game that it's way off the scale of any stupiditymeter. It simply can't be successful with current mechanics and economics.
Quote:
However then you might as well go for 0.0 where the profits are much better and where the tools to control an area of space is better.
Agreed. A completely different thing. |
Feilamya
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.06.29 20:42:00 -
[43]
Asteroids grow? Damn, you must have been watching them for HOURS! |
Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.06.30 06:47:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Stakhanov
Nerf highsec L4s.
Since missions recieved the added bonus of salvage material... maybe it really is time to cut down the loot (or remove it entirely)
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.06.30 18:57:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Nekopyat
Originally by: Stakhanov
Nerf highsec L4s.
Since missions recieved the added bonus of salvage material... maybe it really is time to cut down the loot (or remove it entirely)
"The added bonus of salvage" was introduced at the expense of lesser quality loot and at the added cost of more time (salvage is way slower than looting).
Then the loot was made larger, some refining nerfed and the faction loot in mission nefed again.
TY for suggesting to nerf it again.
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Ellein Adall
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Posted - 2008.07.01 04:54:00 -
[46]
What about changing the trit values in the ore? I have noticed the amount of trit in a belt is that of 10mil trit and thats in a lowsec rarely mined belt.
BTW spent all day with a friend in lowsec system and mined wihtout any harm. I just warp to a SS and another and another till they leave or log after 5 min of running around. most lose interest even if you are in a hulk. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.01 06:34:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ellein Adall
Edited by: Ellein Adall on 01/07/2008 05:31:52
What about changing the trit values in the ore? I have noticed the amount of trit in a belt is that of 12mil trit and thats in a lowsec rarely mined belt.
BTW spent all day with a friend in lowsec system and mined without any harm. I just warp to a SS and another and another till they leave or log after 5 min of running around. Most lose interest even if you are in a hulk.
And how much of your time was spent running around? How much of your ore was destroyed while in a jetcan (or how much time yu spent delivering it to station every time your ship was full)?
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Ulviirala Vauryndar
Gallente
Cohortes Stellaris
ParadoXon Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.09 21:29:00 -
[48]
Originally by: sliver 0xD
Originally by: Ulviirala Vauryndar
Now I know there are classes that makes asteroid growth one, two or three times a week. I have yet to visit a systems with more than three times a week. These days will be Monday, Friday and Wednesday during downtime.
they respawn after a set time. not after dt but also in the midle of the game.
time it right and you should be able to farm it beter.
No, they do not respawn after a set time. They respawn during downtime and depending on the system during the above named days.
If this was about forcing more people into low/0.0 for convenience, it certainly doesn't work on me. I was an eager miner once, but today when you *need to* scout for belts and only find some asteroid remains or Hulks at work and give up, I lose my motivation to play EVE for that day almost entirely.
There are options. You didn't need options back then though. A very few mission provide descent amounts of Ore but it's not an everyday mission, I believe most missions have asteroids rather for decoration. I can't just grind a couple of Level 4 missions until I get a descent mining deadspace. If you're into manufacturing you're not searching only for Veldspar anyways and it's not all about most profit either.
That said, it makes me as a miner really, really unhappy. With *THAT* situation at hand, what would you need an Orca for? The ship itself is very, very nice but with these belts, it'd probably be an awful capital-sized joke.
Unfortunately, your signature is not 22239 bytes, it exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches
I fail, regards to Cortes - Ulvi |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.07.10 01:31:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Nekopyat
Originally by: Hatch
he's too chickenshit to mine in low sec
Given the poor tanking/escape ability of barges (outside the hulk maybe) can one really blame him?
Combat mechanics heavily favor the attacker, and mining defenders are already at a significant disadvantage. Frigate/Cruiser/BS mining is a bit more viable but the number of times you have to jump from belt to station rapidly makes it not worth it. One could also bring a gang that MIGHT be able to kill the attacker before they pop your paper-thin barge but again it is not much extra reward (if any) requiring more people to accomplish.
Every lowsec system I run through I see giant 'roid belts. They are so because no one mines them.
Are you even remotely familiar with the term mmo? A hint: MULTIPLAYER.
Yeah that means if you don't cooperate and grab control of a system so you can mine there then tough luck if you take a chance and want to ninja mine an uncontrolled system. This game is about controlling and securing solar systems. I know you people from high sec don't grasp this concept because of extreme carebearing but that's how it works. Either you like it in high sec crowded baby safe space or you take control of systems with force (with friends/alliance) and you mine somewhere less crowded like low sec for example.
Yeah, it's that easy. True story.
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[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.10 05:23:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Nekopyat
Originally by: Hatch
he's too chickenshit to mine in low sec
Given the poor tanking/escape ability of barges (outside the hulk maybe) can one really blame him?
Combat mechanics heavily favor the attacker, and mining defenders are already at a significant disadvantage. Frigate/Cruiser/BS mining is a bit more viable but the number of times you have to jump from belt to station rapidly makes it not worth it. One could also bring a gang that MIGHT be able to kill the attacker before they pop your paper-thin barge but again it is not much extra reward (if any) requiring more people to accomplish.
Every lowsec system I run through I see giant 'roid belts. They are so because no one mines them.
Are you even remotely familiar with the term mmo? A hint: MULTIPLAYER.
Yeah that means if you don't cooperate and grab control of a system so you can mine there then tough luck if you take a chance and want to ninja mine an uncontrolled system. This game is about controlling and securing solar systems. I know you people from high sec don't grasp this concept because of extreme carebearing but that's how it works. Either you like it in high sec crowded baby safe space or you take control of systems with force (with friends/alliance) and you mine somewhere less crowded like low sec for example.
Yeah, it's that easy. True story.
Lyra Skydancer using the secret move: when you don't have good arguments, use teh "it is a MMORPG" reason.
Are you waguely aware that low sec systems can't be secured?
Or are you so used to the carebeering sections of 0.0 where you can hide behind several ****epoins guarded by friend with bubbles?
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.07.10 14:03:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Hatch
he's too chickenshit to mine in low sec
No, it's that mining in lowsec is just shy of suicidial.
If you don't have support you WILL be killed eventually doing it and of all the mining ships only the exhumers have any means of defense (A Caracal can pop a retriever in two volleys with noob skills).
I have mined more than I like to admit simply because it's the least involved way of making ISK you can get. That being said, in spite of the fact I can fly a Hulk and have "decent" mining skills (I estimate about 75 - 80% of max yield but I've never done the math) I seem to make as much these days as I did when I had a retriever. I actually sold my Hulk to my corp at a tremendous loss because even if mining requires very little intervention to work (and as such I can watch a movie, do homework or whatever else may be more interesting than watching the lasers cycle) the mere 1 - 2 million isk I get per hour just isn't worth it to me in the end.
0.0 Mining worked allright but in 0.0 (or lowsec for that matter) you're never free to just mine and ignore the game. In anything but a pimped Exhumer you're forced to get at least a 3 man gang together to make the thing work (hauler, miner, tanker) and since your hauler and tanker generally won't work for free you lose cash right there on top of the cash you lose for refining effeciency and taxes and so on.
At the end of it all my only real issue is, given how little mining pays these days, why do people still do it? I guess I should be thankful - afterall without people to mine how would I have ships on the market to fly around until they explode? When I started Eve, people in hulks claimed they were making around 100 mil isk/hour - now I never hear miners brag about their ISK/hour income but I know that ratting was always a faster route to isk for me in 0.0 than mining was.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.07.11 01:58:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Are you waguely aware that low sec systems can't be secured?
Or are you so used to the carebeering sections of 0.0 where you can hide behind several ****epoins guarded by friend with bubbles?
Wait you flame me because it is easy mode to hide behind friends in 0.0 and mine/rat? Why are you whining here if its so easy. Go do it yourself then.
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[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.07.11 04:18:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Are you waguely aware that low sec systems can't be secured?
Or are you so used to the carebeering sections of 0.0 where you can hide behind several ****epoins guarded by friend with bubbles?
Wait you flame me because it is easy mode to hide behind friends in 0.0 and mine/rat? Why are you whining here if its so easy. Go do it yourself then.
I agree - there ARE places one can go to mine and do well - I just don't find it to be worthwhile personally.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.11 06:50:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 11/07/2008 06:54:09
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 11/07/2008 06:51:29
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Are you waguely aware that low sec systems can't be secured?
Or are you so used to the carebeering sections of 0.0 where you can hide behind several ****epoins guarded by friend with bubbles?
Wait you flame me because it is easy mode to hide behind friends in 0.0 and mine/rat? Why are you whining here if its so easy. Go do it yourself then.
No, I flame you because you suggest a 0.0 solution for low sec, while you should know very well that it can't be implemented in low sec.
It is like saying "Low sec mineral have a low value" and replying "Go mine Arknor".
And I flame you because you use the "this is a MMORPG bring more people" reply to try to quell discussion when you haven't good arguments.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.07.11 12:37:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 11/07/2008 12:37:04
Originally by: Venkul Mul
No, I flame you because you suggest a 0.0 solution for low sec, while you should know very well that it can't be implemented in low sec.
It is like saying "Low sec mineral have a low value" and replying "Go mine Arknor".
And I flame you because you use the "this is a MMORPG bring more people" reply to try to quell discussion when you haven't good arguments.
Seriously, you cant convince us that high sec money making needs another boost. It's already at a redicilous level. What are you, an isk farmer?
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[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.11 13:14:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 11/07/2008 12:37:04
Originally by: Venkul Mul
No, I flame you because you suggest a 0.0 solution for low sec, while you should know very well that it can't be implemented in low sec.
It is like saying "Low sec mineral have a low value" and replying "Go mine Arknor".
And I flame you because you use the "this is a MMORPG bring more people" reply to try to quell discussion when you haven't good arguments.
Seriously, you cant convince us that high sec money making needs another boost. It's already at a redicilous level. What are you, an isk farmer?
Good dodge, but I was not speaking of high sec, I was speaking of your unapplicable suggestions.
So Lyra, instead of trying to weasel out, stay on argument.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2008.07.11 13:34:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Good dodge, but I was not speaking of high sec, I was speaking of your unapplicable suggestions.
So Lyra, instead of trying to weasel out, stay on argument.
My point is still valid. High sec isk farming needs no boost. End of story.
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[Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name |
Spoon Thumb
Paladin Imperium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.12 11:07:00 -
[58]
I think the Rorqual is being missed from the whole mining equation. Three things:
a) Allow Rorquals in high sec. Just so people get used to them. From the sounds of things, belts get stripped so fast that having rorq's wouldn't make much difference anyway
b) Give Rorquals triage mode. So they can RR miners and tank enemy gangs long enough for miners to find some defences, or those combat players ratting 3 systems away to come running back and help
c) Boost retriever HP. Retriever is made of paper. If you can't even tank low sec rats, nevermind other players, and you have to put in that huge skills and isk investment into a hulk to even get to mine more than 5 minutes in 0.0, then it is no wonder ppl stick to high sec.
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Nailus
Wicked Crew
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Posted - 2008.07.12 22:32:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Nekopyat
Originally by: Hatch
he's too chickenshit to mine in low sec
Given the poor tanking/escape ability of barges (outside the hulk maybe) can one really blame him?
Combat mechanics heavily favor the attacker, and mining defenders are already at a significant disadvantage. Frigate/Cruiser/BS mining is a bit more viable but the number of times you have to jump from belt to station rapidly makes it not worth it. One could also bring a gang that MIGHT be able to kill the attacker before they pop your paper-thin barge but again it is not much extra reward (if any) requiring more people to accomplish.
Every lowsec system I run through I see giant 'roid belts. They are so because no one mines them.
Are you even remotely familiar with the term mmo? A hint: MULTIPLAYER.
Yeah that means if you don't cooperate and grab control of a system so you can mine there then tough luck if you take a chance and want to ninja mine an uncontrolled system. This game is about controlling and securing solar systems. I know you people from high sec don't grasp this concept because of extreme carebearing but that's how it works. Either you like it in high sec crowded baby safe space or you take control of systems with force (with friends/alliance) and you mine somewhere less crowded like low sec for example.
Yeah, it's that easy. True story.
Lyra Skydancer using the secret move: when you don't have good arguments, use teh "it is a MMORPG" reason.
Are you waguely aware that low sec systems can't be secured?
Or are you so used to the carebeering sections of 0.0 where you can hide behind several ****epoins guarded by friend with bubbles?
And why cant you secure low-sec..... weve done it successfully for well over a year now
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.07.14 05:49:00 -
[60]
I think the reason one could say you can't secure lowsec like you can 0.0 is because you can't pop up bubbles in lowsec. Without a bubble it's a LOT harder to run a gatecamp, and without solid gatecamps you really aren't secure.
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Ozmodan
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.07.15 03:15:00 -
[61]
It really cracks me up when people provide such a simplistic answer "go to lowsec".
I have fond memories of many corporate mining expeditions to low sec, most were successful, others were lessons learned.
It is patently ridiculous to answer that way today. Things have changed too much. Like someone mentioned above, the new ships they have added to the game completely unbalance everything. It is quite common to see carriers, even motherships occassionally in low sec these days and those new heavy dictors....
The days of corporate mining expeditions to low-sec are over. You can't protect the miners anymore, heck you want to feel like a deer in the headlights, take a barge to lowsec, even if you protect it with an escort, the pirates just bring more and bigger ships.
Instead of making low-sec more desirable all the recent changes have made it far less desirable. All you are going to do in low-sec is lose money.
Learners permit still current |
Ulviirala Vauryndar
Gallente
Cohortes Stellaris
ParadoXon Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.15 06:31:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Seriously, you cant convince us that high sec money making needs another boost. It's already at a redicilous level. What are you, an isk farmer?
It's interesting how much you like to flame and to throw it into the thread happily 
I'm not asking to "boost" high-sec money making. Bringing the asteroid growth to a reasonable level isn't necessary that, it's rather asking to balance it. As I said formerly, move Level 4 Agents to low sec or make agents have limited amounts of missions, you come crying. 
Oh yea, loot volumes have been nerfed. No, volumes have been risen to avoid mineral compression as some clever players found out - not that clever to tell everyone. Don't tell me, you know the volume of mining crystals, manufactured by a few dozen pieces of nocxium? 
A descent battleship skilled pilot makes multiple times the ISK than a descent skilled exhumer pilot. Some claim 25M to 40M in just under one hour and I've seen people literally razing through the missions. Having "bigger" belts isn't going to change that. Period.
We don't automagically make more than the maximum m¦/cycle we can get and that is in theory (for me) 9M/hr, excluding the manhour for my mate or alt, so noone steals it, y'know. But with asteroids so small, it's like not having a health bar on your mission NPC and you keep firing up to 2:59 minutes when it's long popped. If you understand the technique of mining laser cycles.
Anyways, what "boosts" to high-sec money making are you referring to? Maybe I've taken them for granted and not noticed it much but I can't remember a dedicated boost.
Unfortunately, your signature is not 22239 bytes, it exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches
I fail, regards to Cortes - Ulvi |
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