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Allen Ramses Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:06:00 - [1] Edited by: Allen Ramses on 24/06/2008 23:10:14 [DISCLAIMER] I admit it. I'm a run-of-the-mill Caldari mission runner. My favorite ships are Kestrel, Drake, and Caracal, in that order. I like using missiles because I don't like to worry about tracking, even though I get roughly half the theoretical DPS of guns. I occasionally like to go out into LoSec and try my luck. So yes, I'm a carebear, and yes I have teeth. Now that that's taken care of, I probably have somewhat less of a risk of being called a brainless Caldari muppet, being told to GTFO EVE, die in a fire, stop posting, or some other flame that is blatantly over the top. [/DISCLAIMER] Nanoships are broken, and it's ****ing me the hell off. I've found that in order to take down a single nanoship, it requires 3 equally specialized ships to triangulate and destroy it. Missiles are absolutely useless against them, as nanos usually travel above 4km/s and thus receive no damage. Webs are horrifically imbalanced in their current form. It's a problem that everyone acknowledges, but no clear fix is in sight. Well I have a few. The problem boils down to Webs, Polycarbons, ODs, and iStabs. First thing's first. Webs. Everyone stays out of web range because it means certain death. 90% reduction is WAY too frikkin powerful for a single module. Also, less and less people are using them, as 10km is a ridiculously small range. Why Stasis Webifiers aren't 25%/30% speed and agility reduction (with modifiable scripts) and 20km/25km falloff for T1 and T2, respectively, is beyond me. Every other ewar module I can think of off the top of my head operates in this fashion. Webs should work this way too. Nanofiber injectors are perfect the way they are now. I would not change a thing on them. Polycarbons, on the other hand, I would. They are 15% reduction in mass. Should be gimped to 10% to be in line with other rigs of this type. ODs and iStabs have some very illogical issues that need to be worked out. It is a very well known fact that velocity and agility are inversely proportional. Inertia tells us why. Yet we do not see this basic law in EVE, which is one major reason why nanoships are broken. We have ODs, which provide an additional 20% maximum velocity at the expense of... 20% Cargo capacity?? WTF kind of nonsense is that?? Why the hell would the modification to the engine compartment interfere with the cargohold? Shouldn't it impose a 15% reduction in agility instead? It makes MUCH more sense than reduction in cargo capacity. Also we have iStabs, convenient little things that increase agility by 20%... But doing so increases the size of the ship's electromagnetic field?! Again I ask, WTF kind of nonsense is that?? The only way to artificially increase agility with something that uses thrust is to reduce thrust on the side in which the object needs to move toward. Less thrust makes less velocity. So by that logic, shouldn't a 20% increase in agility cause say a 15% reduction in velocity instead of screwing around with the ship's EM field? So basically, making changes to the above would make the nanoship a much more legitimate specialty tank... It would actually break it in two. The high speed and low agility pilots can orbit from afar, but have a hard time changing course. The low speed and high agility pilot can maneuver much easier, but can't go as fast. The former would be for evading missiles and having increased ability to keep out of range, while the latter would be for faster orbit adjustments and the ability to warp faster in the case of an emergency. To put it in a certain way, there are speed tanks and agility tanks. But having the best of both worlds in one package is not OK. TL;DR version: Nanos are borked. Fix them by significantly modifying the way webs work, changing polycarbons to 10% mass reduction, and making ODs and iStabs mutually exclusive. /me waits for the myriad of nano pilots telling him to jump off a cliff. EDIT: Some day I will learn English. ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless.
Haakelen Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:07:00 - [2] not even going to bother reading that but i'm pretty sure you should stop posting
knifee Euphoria Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:12:00 - [3] The only thing that's really broken, is my will to read any more of these threads. www.eve-dev.net - making a good thing better
tolons mother Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:13:00 - [4] Brainless Caldari muppet. GTFO of eve. DIAF stop posting. muggle.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:14:00 - [5] /me yawns Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Laydee	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:16:00 - [6] Originally by: Allen Ramses [DISCLAIMER] I admit it. I'm a run-of-the-mill Caldari mission runner. If you're a mission runner, why do you care about Nano's ? Last I checked, NPCs didn't do it
Jenny Spitfire LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:16:00 - [7] Or reduec powar grids by 5%-10% for alle Minamatard sheps. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Go vote! Put voice for silent majority. LOVE PVP, HATE grief
SirMoric State War Academy	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:17:00 - [8] Have missiles intercept ships instead of just following them. This way the ships have to fly through the schrapnel and take damage instead of having the scrapnel trying to catch up with the ship. This will be easily avoidable by the nano-pilots though, they just have to turn away from the missile. And the only way to get at good shot is more or less direct on..... and then hope they don't turn away. Just a thought. rgds PS: Oh, and make the drake the best ship in EVE.
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:19:00 - [9] Originally by: Allen Ramses The problem boils down to Webs, Polycarbons, ODs, and iStabs. First thing's first. Webs. Everyone stays out of web range because it means certain death. 90% reduction is WAY too frikkin powerful for a single module. Also, less and less people are using them, as 10km is a ridiculously small range. Why Stasis Webifiers aren't 25%/30% speed and agility reduction (with modifiable scripts) and 20km/25km falloff for T1 and T2, respectively, is beyond me. Every other ewar module I can think of off the top of my head operates in this fashion. Webs should work this way too. Nanofiber injectors are perfect the way they are now. I would not change a thing on them. Polycarbons, on the other hand, I would. They are 15% reduction in mass. Should be gimped to 10% to be in line with other rigs of this type. Seems very reasonable. One thought regarding the webs: instead of simply changing the webs to make them weaker but longer range, make them scripted so that one script results in webs working as they do now, and the other results in the weaker, long-range webs you describe. Agreed on Polycarbons, they are too powerful versus their module equivalent. -- Becq Starforged The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:20:00 - [10] Edited by: Quelque Chose on 24/06/2008 23:24:32 It's pretty evident to me just by looking at it that this post, which I didn't read a lick of and have no intention of reading, is of such staggering importance that it couldn't possibly have fit into any of the other 70 godzillion threads about this. edit PS. **** you ___________________________________________
tarin adur Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:21:00 - [11] Originally by: knifee The only thing that's really broken, is my will to read any more of these threads.
Murtala Mushin Market	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:23:00 - [12] Nano have been a problem for ages, remember the nano phoon and domi, and most 0.0 residents have been harassed by nano gangs. Triumivates where famous for their nano gangs and Pandemic legion are now famous for them. 0utbreak pilots can be seen whizzing around in vagabonds at speeds of 16000+ms !! (not a typo) But all these gangs and ships are normally short range setups and if your fleet has Webbers fitted to all ship and a couple of rapiers, they will go down.
Laydee	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:25:00 - [13] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Or reduec powar grids by 5%-10% for alle Minamatard sheps. As a minmatar, I would be happy for other races to have ships that are as _obviously_* useful for anti-nano as our Minnie ships are. Oh wait, you have the Curse already, the Blackbird, the Vexor, the Maller, Lachesis or Arazu even ? You don't just need to counter with speed or damage guys - you can anti-nano by removing their ability to damage you. Tracking disruptors are great, because it makes them have to slow down even further to hit - chuck in a target painter and you have a nasty combo and one that's effective as its a non-intuitive fit for ships that are usually nano-fodder. *I said obviously because there are plenty of setups out there that can be tweaked for anti-nano ops and do rather well; but should also be viable for non-nano ops. Meh.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Laydee Oh wait, you have the Curse already, the Blackbird, the Vexor, the Maller, Lachesis or Arazu even ? You don't just need to counter with speed or damage guys - you can anti-nano by removing their ability to damage you. As repeated pointed out in other threads a counter does not mean "removing their ability to damage you". Of the ships mentioned only the Curse could be considered a counter however it is a ... nano hac. So, a nano is the best counter to another nano? Originally by: Laydee Tracking disruptors are great, because it makes them have to slow down even further to hit Ignoring the use of missiles and drones by nanos. Of course even if you do manage to hit them a bit they've got a very nice buffer shield tank. If you do enough to their buffer tank they'll warp off. Originally by: Laydee *I said obviously because there are plenty of setups out there that can be tweaked for anti-nano ops and do rather well; but should also be viable for non-nano ops. Meh. Few non nano setups are viable for both anti-nano work and non-nanos. They usually make comedy killmails. On the other hand nanos can fly the same setup equally well against nanos and non nanos. Most of these "counters" you've mentioned are annoyances. Annoyances will either get you killed or drive them off. Annoyances allow them to either kill you or escape. Annoyances aren't likely to result in the death of many nanos. Nanos have the clear advantage. Moral of the story? Its silly to fly anything but nanos against nanos.
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:40:00 - [15] Originally by: *****zilla Of the ships mentioned only the Curse could be considered a counter however it is a ... nano hac. :shobon:
Laydee	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:42:00 - [16] Originally by: ***zilla Originally by:** Laydee Oh wait, you have the Curse already, the Blackbird, the Vexor, the Maller, Lachesis or Arazu even ? You don't just need to counter with speed or damage guys - you can anti-nano by removing their ability to damage you. As repeated pointed out in other threads a counter does not mean "removing their ability to damage you". Of the ships mentioned only the Curse could be considered a counter however it is a ... nano hac. So, a nano is the best counter to another nano? Originally by: Laydee Tracking disruptors are great, because it makes them have to slow down even further to hit Ignoring the use of missiles and drones by nanos. Of course even if you do manage to hit them a bit they've got a very nice buffer shield tank. If you do enough to their buffer tank they'll warp off. Originally by: Laydee *I said obviously because there are plenty of setups out there that can be tweaked for anti-nano ops and do rather well; but should also be viable for non-nano ops. Meh. Few non nano setups are viable for both anti-nano work and non-nanos. They usually make comedy killmails. On the other hand nanos can fly the same setup equally well against nanos and non nanos. Most of these "counters" you've mentioned are annoyances. Annoyances will either get you killed or drive them off. Annoyances allow them to either kill you or escape. Annoyances aren't likely to result in the death of many nanos. Nanos have the clear advantage. Moral of the story? Its silly to fly anything but nanos against nanos. Fight fire with fire ? Ok - not always the best way - but I think here we have a different definition of what it means by Counter. I mean to say, render my target unable to kill me - you probably say, kill your target. Horses for courses my friend - the points I suggested are indeed viable counters, when you consider that most every Nano pilot has the choice available to attack or withdraw at their whim. Knowing that most people choose to save their skin, I think the 'win' is to cause them to withdraw. Nullification is a cheap victory and doesn't get kill-mails, but its viable without gimping my ship against non-nano targets, and hopefully leaves me to fight another day - Semper procinctu.
EnslaverOfMinmatar Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:49:00 - [17] my cpu has a cycle length of around 0.5 nanoseconds. that makes it uber fast. nerf it
Kel Nissa	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:49:00 - [18] I dont like their posts: - Haakelen - knifee - tolons mother - Quelque Chose regards, Kel
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Allen Ramses Edited by: Allen Ramses on 24/06/2008 23:10:14 [DISCLAIMER] I admit it. I'm a run-of-the-mill Caldari mission runner. My favorite ships are Kestrel, Drake, and Caracal, in that order. I like using missiles because I don't like to worry about tracking, even though I get roughly half the theoretical DPS of guns. I like using guns, because I can hit fast stuff (medium ACs will even swat the slower interceptor out of the sky, same with medium lasers), but have to worry about tracking (both against fast targets or smaller targets or when very close), missing due to falloff and everything, and still my ships do less DPS then properly-setup missile boats like the Raven and such. Yeah, so certain weapon systems have drawbacks and strenghts. One of the drawbacks of missiles is that they fail vs fast things. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Allen Ramses Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:51:00 - [20] Well, it's assuring to know that at least one person read my post and provided relevant input. Thank you Becq. The rest of you can go to Rancer. ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless.
Eternal Error Exitus Acta Probant	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:52:00 - [21] Edited by: Eternal Error on 24/06/2008 23:52:44 Originally by: Allen Ramses Edited by: Allen Ramses on 24/06/2008 23:10:14 Nanofiber injectors are perfect the way they are now. What the hell is a nanofiber injector?
Haakelen Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:54:00 - [22] Originally by: Allen Ramses Well, it's assuring to know that at least one person read my post and provided relevant input. Thank you Becq. The rest of you can go to Rancer. the problem is that you come across like every other person who cries about nanos, who looked at eft and maybe saw a vaga a few times and didn't have the velocity colum on and knows nothing about transversal or tracking (you admit this) or real-life cap use or any of the myriad of complex things relating to this field, and instead of reading the many well intentioned reasonable seriousposts about the subject and trying something new and perhaps not instantly assuming that when they fail the problem lies outside of them, decided to make a post on eve-o general reporting his findings to us and making stupid suggestions that are far more gamebreaking than fast ships could ever be at their worst
Crackzilla The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.24 23:55:00 - [23] Originally by: Laydee Fight fire with fire ? It is currently the only reasonable way. This is a problem. Originally by: Laydee I mean to say, render my target unable to kill me - you probably say, kill your target. This is a draw. What you are proposing are odds that any rational person would take. If most of the counters involve a draw with little risk of death why would anyone fly anything but nanos? Originally by: Laydee viable counters, when you consider that most every Nano pilot has the choice available to attack or withdraw at their whim. Knowing that most people choose to save their skin, I think the 'win' is to cause them to withdraw. Again, this is a draw. By your rational if you were to log off or dock, boredom would force them to withdraw and you would have "won". If you were not to play the game and no one were to die then you would have "won". a) The non nano risks death or the nano escaping. b) The nano risks a non nano kill or itself escaping. If a counter isn't likely to seriously threaten a nano and result in a killmail then it isn't a counter. It is at best an annoyance. The only rational choice is for everyone to fly nanos. Originally by: Laydee and hopefully leaves me to fight another day - Semper procinctu. If you wish to fly non nanos then you're giving odds that any nano pilot will take. The only rational choice is to fly nanos.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:03:00 - [24] Originally by: *****zilla a) The non nano risks death or the nano escaping. b) The nano risks a non nano kill or itself escaping. The crux of the nano-whiner issue is that this is a blatant lie. (a) The non-nanoship risks a (reduced) nanoship kill, death, or the nanoship escaping. (b) The nano has reduced risk of death, or non-nano kill or the nanoship escaping. Saying that nanoships don't risk death is, of course, a lie; there's numerous records of nanoships killed (even when engaging non-nanoships) to prove it's a total lie. Naturally, nano-whiner brigade will always say 'it's pilot error; it's lag; it's the all-different-corps russian blob with domination-fitted recons' or whatever. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Napro Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:05:00 - [25] This guy writes up a huge post with facts and points up the wazoo and all we get are a bunch of nanofags basically saying "STFU DONT TAKE MY NANO"
Laydee	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:05:00 - [26] Originally by: *****zilla This is a draw. What you are proposing are odds that any rational person would take. If most of the counters involve a draw with little risk of death why would anyone fly anything but nanos? I think this is clearly a case where we need to agree that we disagree. It's pretty clear that the majority of Nano pilots pick their fights; if they are not guaranteed an easy win and have the ability to back off they want to and this is what many nano pilots do. The thing is sure its of little risk of death to the Nano pilot; but its damn sure of little risk of getting a kill either - this is why they choose their fights and withdraw with counters. Generally :) I'm just trying to say that yeah, you can't get a quick kill but there are ways and means that joe-blog FW'er can make sure that all he'll do is get harrased by the average nano buffoon, but not killed - and can hopefully do that without gimping his ship to any non-nano war targets. If a good nano pilot wants to kill you, and you're not specifically setup to counter it; then chances are you'll be dead - ok. But most nano pilots aren't good, and most non-nano pilots don't choose to specify quite so severely - That trade off means that there are options option to everyone that don't mean months of specific training for something that's likely to be nerfed :\
Laydee	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Napro This guy writes up a huge post with facts and points up the wazoo and all we get are a bunch of nanofags basically saying "STFU DONT TAKE MY NANO" That's funny, I thought I clearly stated that there are ways to combat the average nano pilot In case I didn't clarify, I'm not a Nano pilot
Crackzilla The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:08:00 - [28] Originally by: Cpt Branko don't risk death is, of course, a lie; there's numerous records of nanoships killed (even when engaging non-nanoships) Of course this is generalized to prove that a counter without a kill is no counter. However as you admit the risks to the nano ships are reduced. And thats enough for most people to fly nanos.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:09:00 - [29] Originally by: Napro This guy writes up a huge post with facts Subjective opinions are not facts Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Eternal Error Exitus Acta Probant	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:11:00 - [30] Dammit, after I quoted him he edited out the bit about "nanofiber injectors"! Where can I get one of these to soup up my nano-ishtar?
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:15:00 - [31] Originally by: Napro This guy writes up a huge post with facts and points up the wazoo and all we get are a bunch of nanofags basically saying "STFU DONT TAKE MY NANO" I can't even fly a HAC yet, I'm just sick of the whinespam tbh. Furthermore it's pretty self- evident that the majority of this stuff is coming from people who have only just recently had their first encounter with the tactic, and as we all know that makes for pretty lousy balance discussion. I do however find it hilarious that this guy is complaining that nobody read his post when it's obvious he didn't even so much as glance at the front page while racing headlong toward the "New Thread" button. ___________________________________________
Laydee	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:16:00 - [32] Originally by: Quelque Chose I do however find it hilarious that this guy is complaining that nobody read his post when it's obvious he didn't even so much as glance at the front page while racing headlong toward the "New Thread" button. TouchT
Armoured C Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:24:00 - [33] DEAL WITH IT like human nature adapt of perish, i don't mind which you choose but you will have to choose as fast as they move and FYI you disclaimer make you even more of a noob nano whiner baby because your a carebear and this effects eve less that the minority that this would infect. real PVPrs adapt to there surrounding like the hunter, tactfully working to get it prey.
Allen Ramses Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:26:00 - [34] Well, I actually kinda did that on purpose. All the other threads were just flooded with whines and trolls. If I used a pre-existing thread, it would never have been seen Besides, I was actually poking fun at the whole nano whine issue, but I did it without spamming unrelated content. Oh, and BTW, I'm not exactly inexperienced with PvP. To think a person who's been playing for two years never stirred up trouble or has never been in any combat scenarios really says something about not giving the EVE community enough credit... Or am I giving the EVE community too much credit? ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:28:00 - [35] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/06/2008 00:30:17 Originally by: Allen Ramses Oh, and BTW, I'm not exactly inexperienced with PvP. KB link? Sorry, 11 kills, 5 losses doesn't qualify as a lot of PvP experience, and I find battleclinic to be fairly accurate. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Armoured C Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:29:00 - [36] Edited by: Armoured C on 25/06/2008 00:30:09 Originally by: Allen Ramses Well, I actually kinda did that on purpose. All the other threads were just flooded with whines and trolls. If I used a pre-existing thread, it would never have been seen Besides, I was actually poking fun at the whole nano whine issue, but I did it without spamming unrelated content. Oh, and BTW, I'm not exactly inexperienced with PvP. To think a person who's been playing for two years never stirred up trouble or has never been in any combat scenarios really says something about not giving the EVE community enough credit... Or am I giving the EVE community too much credit? your move likely to insult the people that actually kill them ... your comming across thatr they are impossible to kill or counter for either running away or them doing so. as you "first nano whine" you should feel like a utter fool for not posting in another thread... you hear the sane members of the community complaining about the abundance of threads containing these nano whines and yet you feel the need to brandish you name on top of those for the sake of sheer provado. enjoy your whine while you still can
Allen Ramses Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:31:00 - [37] Sorry, I don't like flailing my e-peen around like most people do. Besides, they're mostly losses (guess by which kind of ship). Oh, and when I say I'm not inexperienced, I mean in smaller skirmishes. I get very lost in 50v50 blob warfare. ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless.
Haakelen Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:34:00 - [38] The 'I didn't post the mails because I don't need to post mails to feel cool' thing is so honorable
Allen Ramses Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:41:00 - [39] It's not worth my time to paste a kill or loss into some obscure killboard that nobody will ever look at, much less care. ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless.
Haakelen Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:41:00 - [40] you're so right, nobody looks at battleclinic ever
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:43:00 - [41] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/06/2008 00:44:00 Originally by: Allen Ramses Sorry, I don't like flailing my e-peen around like most people do. Besides, they're mostly losses (guess by which kind of ship). Other people post on battleclinic and other killboards they leech from, so generally the kills end up there for most people. Anyway, the "I don't post mails because I'm that cool" line is just lol. Originally by: Allen Ramses Oh, and when I say I'm not inexperienced, I mean in smaller skirmishes. I get very lost in 50v50 blob warfare. I'm sorry, but you are. Besides, you lost one Drake (which wasn't fitted very well anyway) to two nano-HACs (where you'd have died anyway vs two conventional HACs), why are you whining? I'm betting that the Vagabond went in close-range given it did as much damage as the Ishtar on that kill, but no web/mwd/point doesn't give you any chance of killing anything really. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Allen Ramses Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.06.25 00:58:00 - [42] Edited by: Allen Ramses on 25/06/2008 01:00:47 That 'one drake' was the result of poor execution. It was the primary damage dealer, and it was fit to tank quite well in a gang. I was tackling, I was not eWaring, I wasn't doing anything but being the brute force element, and IIRC I only fit a 24km scram as a 'just in case'. Oh, and if you care to look closer into the killmail and do some further investigation, you'd see that I was only one of five who were taken out by a vaga and a nanotar. Yet I did most of the damage, and I held my tank the longest. Buffers are nice. All in all, it was a mockery of common sense on our part. Went in unprepared, got our asses handed to us. Last minute gang = fail. Anyway, I've had a total of 4 kills, I don't know how many assists, and too many losses. But I don't keep the killmail, they were useless to me anyway. EDIT: And no, that Vaga would be orbiting at 20k, and running away to 100km out every time I primaried him. Should have just stayed on the Ishtar, even though I took out his entire compliment of drones. ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless.
Lil Mina FireTech's Summer Retreat	Posted - 2008.06.25 01:29:00 - [43] Originally by: Allen Ramses stuff your sig, it explains the OP.
Allen Ramses Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.06.25 01:35:00 - [44] I fail to see how battleships being terrible things to fly has any relevance to the topic at hand. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to how the god awful Raven being a crappy mission runner has something to do with nanoships? ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.06.25 01:37:00 - [45] Originally by: Allen Ramses Perhaps you can enlighten me as to how the god awful Raven being a crappy mission runner has something to do with nanoships? Because it shows you have no idea how to fit/fly/use one? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Allen Ramses Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.06.25 01:41:00 - [46] Well, I'm certainly not going to equip two sensor boosters so I can target frigs (not to mention elite frigs) in a reasonable amount of time, nor am I going to nanofit it so I can approach a gate in under an hour. ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless.
Haakelen Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.25 01:47:00 - [47] itt a guy who knows nothing about PvP or ships in eve that aren't Drakes or Caracals decides to try to tell everyone else who does how wrong they are
Lil Mina FireTech's Summer Retreat	Posted - 2008.06.25 01:55:00 - [48] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Allen Ramses Perhaps you can enlighten me as to how the god awful Raven being a crappy mission runner has something to do with nanoships? Because it shows you have no idea how to fit/fly/use one? +1
Cosy Porandor	Posted - 2008.06.25 02:41:00 - [49] Edited by: Cosy on 25/06/2008 02:43:13 Originally by: Lil Mina Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Allen Ramses Perhaps you can enlighten me as to how the god awful Raven being a crappy mission runner has something to do with nanoships? Because it shows you have no idea how to fit/fly/use one? +1 +1 plz look here and see who a CNR is fited http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=758713
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.06.25 03:13:00 - [50] Originally by: Haakelen itt a guy who knows nothing about PvP or ships in eve that aren't Drakes or Caracals decides to try to tell everyone else who does how wrong they are He probably knows more than you do though.
Marduk Jerak Invicta.	Posted - 2008.06.25 03:17:00 - [51] If you take away nanoing, your only encouraging blobbing, since nanoing is the only truly effective way for a small gang to be able to counter the blob imo
Crackzilla The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.25 03:21:00 - [52] Edited by: ***zilla on 25/06/2008 03:22:37 Originally by: Marduk Jerak If you take away nanoing, your only encouraging blobbing, since nanoing is the only truly effective way for a small gang to be able to counter the blob imo For nanos to be effective they must blob their targets. A response to nanos requires blobbing. Nanos are not the answer to blobs. Nanos encourage blobbing. The best method to counter blobs is patience and choosing a target carefully. Scouts and intel. This is the role covops/recons/stealthbombers/black ops were originally designed for. However as we all know speed is better than patience.
Marduk Jerak Invicta.	Posted - 2008.06.25 03:25:00 - [53] Originally by: ***zilla Originally by:** Marduk Jerak If you take away nanoing, your only encouraging blobbing, since nanoing is the only truly effective way for a small gang to be able to counter the blob imo For nanos to be effective they must blob their targets. A response to nanos requires blobbing. Nanos are not the answer to blobs. i didn't realize a gang of 10ish was a blob : \
Tai Paktu Ataraxia.	Posted - 2008.06.25 03:44:00 - [54] Nanowhines have become EvE's cancer... ______ http://eve-files.com/sig/TaiPaktu/sig3.PNG
Rhanna Khurin	Posted - 2008.06.25 03:49:00 - [55] What i don't understand is why the OP decided to post anotther thread about nano ships and what new information or ideas he has brought to the forum that havent been said 459687498 times this week alone so far. "Remember one of the primary rules of the forum, Before posting, do a search to see if a similar topic has already been posted...."
Haakelen Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.25 03:59:00 - [56] To be fair the search here sucks, and trying to search on large forums is pretty hard anyway. But there were like 4 multi-page threads on the first two pages. The problem is that everything that can possibly be said (on both 'sides') about this subject has been said at least 3-4 times over but people still want to post so
Blind Man Point Blank Carebears	Posted - 2008.06.25 04:52:00 - [57] ohai ╟
moschka Secret Squirrel Readiness Group	Posted - 2008.06.26 10:04:00 - [58] When i read this, i was thinking about Red Baron in hes red little tri-plane avoiding a jet plane from now, by simply being more agile. But nanos, is as agile as little red baron.huh.
emma louise	Posted - 2008.06.26 10:11:00 - [59] You forget to factor in to your "Balance Logic" that Polys are by far the the most expensive t1 rig..... If u want the good u have to pay...so comparing a 50 mill rig's bonus to a 1 mill t2 mod's bonus == fail...
Allen Ramses Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.06.26 10:15:00 - [60] Originally by: moschka When i read this, i was thinking about Red Baron in hes red little tri-plane avoiding a jet plane from now, by simply being more agile. But nanos, is as agile as little red baron.huh. ... ... ... huh? ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless.
Esmenet	Posted - 2008.06.26 10:19:00 - [61] Originally by: Tai Paktu Nanowhines have become EvE's cancer... Along with caldari militia pilots.
FlameGlow State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.26 10:34:00 - [62] Originally by: emma louise You forget to factor in to your "Balance Logic" that Polys are by far the the most expensive t1 rig..... If u want the good u have to pay...so comparing a 50 mill rig's bonus to a 1 mill t2 mod's bonus == fail... Polys are not expensive just because they are, they are expensive because they are popular (and share components with other really popular rigs - cargohold optimizers). It's quite obvious why they are popular, so don't blame high prices - by buying and using polys you make these prices.
Turiel Demon SHRIKE.	Posted - 2008.06.26 10:39:00 - [63] I rather liked the OP idea on webs and poly's? Can I say that or does that mean I'm a nanohater now? ---- nothing to see here, move along nicely now, is that a pink dread out there. aaww you just missed it -eris
Tenuo Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.06.26 10:47:00 - [64] Originally by: Murtala Nano have been a problem for ages, remember the nano phoon and domi, and most 0.0 residents have been harassed by nano gangs. Triumivates where famous for their nano gangs and Pandemic legion are now famous for them. 0utbreak pilots can be seen whizzing around in vagabonds at speeds of 16000+ms !! (not a typo) But all these gangs and ships are normally short range setups and if your fleet has Webbers fitted to all ship and a couple of rapiers, they will go down. You might wanna do your research. Pandemic Legion use battleships and conventional ships Alot _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist.

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2008.06.26 16:47:00 - [65] Cleaned and moved to Features and Ideas. Mitnal Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang


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