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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jeckes
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Posted - 2008.06.26 23:43:00 -
[1]
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g61_5.asp
CCP. First, you introduce different ship sizes. In the beginning battleships were corp assets because solo grinding your way to riches was difficult. You've made it easier and easier to get isk privately, meaning anyone can fly a battleship, which has more slots for utilities and guns than smaller ships.
This tracking guide says that small ships should be able to avoid battleship guns completely, and have a good survivability against cruiser guns, yet we've seen the addition of more and more skills and modules that are designed specifically to aid combat against small ships with large guns. This is the cause for the MWD-on-everything syndrome currently in the game. Frigates should be able to survive on their own small size and base speed, but you have created a system that forces the use of MWDs on frigs for survivability.
You introduced advanced frigates that take time and effort as much as getting into a T1 battleship. While Frigs have the most diversity for usage by EW specs, EA specs, Covops and Blackops, and tackling specs via intys, you KEEP GIVING these specs to larger and larger ships, making the specialization into these frigs worthless.
CCP you keep nerfing the power and effectiveness of frigs by creating larger and larger ships that do the same job. Larger and larger ships should focus on tanking and DPS. Leave frigs to have the specializations for ECM, EW, EA, Black ops, Cov ops, and tackling to keep them useful.
CCP, you dont know how many people come into this game asking if they can be a fighter pilot. Time and time again this question comes up in the newbie channel. And with the current situation you've designed the game for, the answer is always "Yes in a frig, but its very situational". Battleships aren't "very situational". I'm flying through zones where theres one sitting around every station and gate as I speak, in high sec no less. Not to mention that anything bigger than a cruiser has a drone bay and drones kill frigates with ease, making frigates that much more useless.
Currently damage frigates are meant to kill other frigates. All well and good, except that if the jobs of specialized frigates keep getting outsourced to the larger ships, there's no use in those frigates anymore, thus they wont be fielded, and then what's the point of having those damage frigates at all? This is what makes frigates "Very situational".
I saw your ads for Factional warfare, and you seem to mix up the fleet very well, with the smaller and smaller ships being in greater number, from titan to dread to battleship to cruiser size to frigate. This seems to say that your Vision of the game is a fleet which mixes all these ship classes well, and that kind of fleet is the most powerful and balanced. Yet
Yet as you can see, you're making it more difficult to justify the use of frigates with each addition of a larger ship that can do the same job and tank MUCH more damage, because frigates without MWDs are sitting ducks, UNLIKE what the tracking guide says. your own module and skill introductions are in fact turning it into capitals online.
Its about time this game receives a skill that reduces the signature radius of frigates, to make them viable pieces again. Or maybe all frigates should receive a base speed buff, coinciding with a nerf to MWDs and Nanofibers. Frigates having 10% more speed than a cruiser does NOT make sense.
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Miyeko Deux
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Posted - 2008.06.26 23:46:00 -
[2]
/agreed and signed. Very nice write up of problem.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.06.26 23:46:00 -
[3]
Edited by: baltec1 on 26/06/2008 23:51:18
My AS has been known to tank an ishtar and on the test server it tanked a carrier. Dont ask me how because I have no idea.
Frigates arn't all that bad once you get the skills up.
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Tortun Nahme
Umbra Synergy
Final Retribution Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.26 23:49:00 -
[4]
I'm not entirely as displeased with this topic as i intiailly expected but it "should" be in the features and ideas forum rather than GD, GD is for trolling and whines, not serious discussion
 Originally by: Cecil Montague
They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Jeckes
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Posted - 2008.06.27 00:02:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jeckes on 27/06/2008 00:02:18
Okay then, will a mod please move this to Features and ideas?
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Grath Telkin
Evolving Paradigms
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Posted - 2008.06.27 00:08:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Grath Telkin on 27/06/2008 00:09:11
this same guy has posted in 2 threads with bad ideas and poor understanding of mechanics.
EDIT: heres a clue sherlock: EVERYBODY likes and wants inty pilots with them.
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Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.06.27 00:14:00 -
[7]
Despite your claims about frigates being worthless, they are actually quite common.
The main reason is their cost, in the T1 frigates' case. With T2, this is a bit different, but it's still common to see interceptors and electronic attack frigs in gangs.
With that said, I do agree with some of your points, frigates should be harder to hit. Most cruiser-sized guns are currently able to hit frigates very easily.
Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
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Jeckes
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Posted - 2008.06.27 00:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Edited by: Grath Telkin on 27/06/2008 00:09:11
this same guy has posted in 2 threads with bad ideas and poor understanding of mechanics.
EDIT: heres a clue sherlock: EVERYBODY likes and wants inty pilots with them.
you get a clue and gtfo troll.
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Grath Telkin
Evolving Paradigms
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Posted - 2008.06.27 00:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jeckes
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Edited by: Grath Telkin on 27/06/2008 00:09:11
this same guy has posted in 2 threads with bad ideas and poor understanding of mechanics.
EDIT: heres a clue sherlock: EVERYBODY likes and wants inty pilots with them.
you get a clue and gtfo troll.
Jec, READ THE SHIPS, get out a bit, calling me a troll is making you look worse, because WHAT IM SAYING IS A FACT.
seriously, ask around, im right.
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Jeckes
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Posted - 2008.06.27 00:21:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tamia Clant
Despite your claims about frigates being worthless, they are actually quite common.
The main reason is their cost, in the T1 frigates' case. With T2, this is a bit different, but it's still common to see interceptors and electronic attack frigs in gangs.
With that said, I do agree with some of your points, frigates should be harder to hit. Most cruiser-sized guns are currently able to hit frigates very easily.
yep, and destroyers were supposed to be the anti-frigate platform anyway. T1 frigates are used, except that if you have 10 million+ in implants, it becomes a riskier idea than simply taking a large ship that can actually tank, and last longer giving those implants more worth in a fight.
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Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.27 00:22:00 -
[11]
I'm trying to figure out what's up with this. I'm serious. I read it, and tried to comprehend it, but it doesn't make any sense. Of course it's a nano whine, but above that, I don't get it.
Are you trying to justify the nerfing of everything above a frigate because assault frigates suck? Are you trying to say that only frigates should have EW and Tackling modules? Are you trying to say that battleships are too useful? Cruisers? What
Then you say 'capitals online', which is kind of funny because it sounds like you've never seen one before.
so instead of trying to refute any points (??) you make in your wall of text I'm just going to
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Jeckes
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Posted - 2008.06.27 00:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Haakelen
I'm trying to figure out what's up with this. I'm serious. I read it, and tried to comprehend it, but it doesn't make any sense. Of course it's a nano whine, but above that, I don't get it.
Are you trying to justify the nerfing of everything above a frigate because assault frigates suck? Are you trying to say that only frigates should have EW and Tackling modules? Are you trying to say that battleships are too useful? Cruisers? What
Then you say 'capitals online', which is kind of funny because it sounds like you've never seen one before.
so instead of trying to refute any points (??) you make in your wall of text I'm just going to
its not a nano-whine, and you're a derailment troll. reported.
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Haakelen
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.27 00:24:00 -
[13]
How about replying to anything I said. Are you saying only frigates should have EWar/Tackling Modules? Are you arguging larger ships are overpowered somehow?
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2008.06.27 00:41:00 -
[14]
Moved to Features and Ideas.
Mitnal
Community Representative
CCP Games, EVE Online
Email / Netfang |
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Herateis
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Posted - 2008.06.27 05:13:00 -
[15]
thanks mitty 
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VJ Maverick
Caldari
Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2008.06.27 08:58:00 -
[16]
I am a fan of small ship combat, too and I feel that the current game mechanics make it untenable. I've even put forward a proposal to put the small, fast, and painful back into the frigate class. Check out my Dogfighting AF Proposal. I think it will resonate with your feelings on the matter.
Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything. |
Zirconium Blade
Ass Pounding Space Monkeys
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Posted - 2008.06.27 12:40:00 -
[17]
Alfa.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Cadien Cybernetics
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Posted - 2008.06.27 15:33:00 -
[18]
In general I agree.
My suggestion would be to think about decoupling tracking and signature resolution.
That way no matter how good your tracking or how low the transversal is, big guns would still miss frigates a lot.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
-Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam-
('nerf' means 'incompetence', esp. when you use it) |
Hatch
Minmatar
Bug-Blatter Beasts of Traal
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Posted - 2008.06.27 17:23:00 -
[19]
guess you've never heard of a wolf pack. let me clue you in. a group of t1 frigates, say about 7 to 8, can rip a battleship to shreads with little to no problems.
your statement that it takes as much time and cost to get into a t2 frigate is unfounded. the only skill needed for AS is frigate 5. this skill takes about 12 to 15 days to train and costs roughly 8-14mil. not exactly battleship train time or cost.... inti's take about two months to get into and fly effectively. roughly the same time to smash through to a battleship, but then you are firing small guns off a big boat. your gripe is unjustified.
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2008.06.27 18:07:00 -
[20]
i'll agree that MWDs need a more severe penalty for larger ships. on a frig, you turn into a really fast moving but large target to large ships when you activate it. on larger ships, you just turn into a slightly larger barn but still go faster.
You're doing it wrong. |
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Deadeye Devie
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.06.27 18:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Hatch
guess you've never heard of a wolf pack. let me clue you in. a group of t1 frigates, say about 7 to 8, can rip a battleship to shreads with little to no problems.
your statement that it takes as much time and cost to get into a t2 frigate is unfounded. the only skill needed for AS is frigate 5. this skill takes about 12 to 15 days to train and costs roughly 8-14mil. not exactly battleship train time or cost.... inti's take about two months to get into and fly effectively. roughly the same time to smash through to a battleship, but then you are firing small guns off a big boat. your gripe is unjustified.
Assult frigate takes more than 12-15 days....as they need frigate V, mechanics V, and engineering V pushing it to short of 2 months to get in one....follow that with the other skills needed to warrent undocking with one, your looking at muuuuuch longer to fly...plus the bad insurance means a cruiser is chepar, more slots and is fully insurable.
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both. |
Haakelen
Gallente
Force d'action navale
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Posted - 2008.06.27 18:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Deadeye Devie
Originally by: Hatch
guess you've never heard of a wolf pack. let me clue you in. a group of t1 frigates, say about 7 to 8, can rip a battleship to shreads with little to no problems.
your statement that it takes as much time and cost to get into a t2 frigate is unfounded. the only skill needed for AS is frigate 5. this skill takes about 12 to 15 days to train and costs roughly 8-14mil. not exactly battleship train time or cost.... inti's take about two months to get into and fly effectively. roughly the same time to smash through to a battleship, but then you are firing small guns off a big boat. your gripe is unjustified.
Assult frigate takes more than 12-15 days....as they need frigate V, mechanics V, and engineering V pushing it to short of 2 months to get in one....follow that with the other skills needed to warrent undocking with one, your looking at muuuuuch longer to fly...plus the bad insurance means a cruiser is chepar, more slots and is fully insurable.
Breaking news: it takes time to get good at flying a ship
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