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Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:41:00 - [1] Ok, I know a few things about this game so I think that I could probably come up with really good ideas concerning games changes. So bear with me a tiny bit here. Turrets have become far too common on ships in EVE today, and it's obvious why. They are clearly overpowered. I mean, think about it. 3 of the 4 races use turrets instead of missiles (but you see alot of missile users out there too, so they must be badly balanced as well). Sniper fleet BS use turrets. So many powerful ships use turrets (EVEN TITANS!). But CCP doesn't do anything about it. There are so many other things to fit in high slots, which include neuts, nos, salvagers, cloaks, mining turrets. No one fits these, because there are much better (read overpowered) modules to fit into highs: turrets. The Navy Megathron does INSANE amount of DPS with their turrets. Clearly this is in need of a change due to their complete dominance of high slot usage. Please CCP, this game was not meant to be full of turrets and you should step in to take care of this horrible problem. THank you. --
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:44:00 - [2] 8/10. I almost believed it, until you went to titans.
Einherji	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:47:00 - [3] the caldari can use turrets, and the rohk last time I checked is a ok sniper platform, I recommend that you do a little more research before making such claims. the moa, eagle, ferox and rohk are all hybrid using ships, well maybe other ship does it better but thoose ships are turret ships.
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:48:00 - [4] yes i agree look at this insantiy Megathron - 7 TURRETS 900 DPS Armageddon - 7 turrets 800 DPS BEST TRACKING IN THE GAME Rokh - 8 Turrets 1000 DPS with a tank bonus, not overpowered? yeah right Most the gangs that field these ships have tacklers and ships with webs and call primaries so add another 200 DPS. Even if they remove DAMAGE MODULES these ships will still be imbalanced. What we really need is more ECM, remove damage modules, and add a major stacking penality to all turrets and level 5 skills. Turrets weren't designed to do primary damage they were designed to fit mining lasers. It doesn't matter if missiles are boosted, turrest are the new active WCS. Imbalanced is when there are ships that don't need to use missiles, do large wrecking hits, and never die because they can keep shooting like cowards at any time. If they don't shoot missiles them how do you kill them? Training for a turret ship is not the asnwer.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:48:00 - [5] Missiles have exactly two problems in my book: 1) Travel time - against slower, more distant targets this factor alone means their utility in large fleet fights is questionable. Afterall, if your fire missieles at primary they will probably never make contact. If you fire missiles at tertiary they MAY make contact but if you are forced to warp or get popped in the 30 seconds they are in the air you miss. 2) Medium class missiles are incapable of hitting most modern medium class ships for any real damage. This is because most medium class ships are nano'd and once your ship exceeds aboug 3 k/s you can effective ignore most of the damage a missile using cruiser/bc can sling at you.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum TRUST Coalition	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:48:00 - [6] Actually, titans often fit mining lasers in combat. Well - at least once...
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:52:00 - [7] Originally by: Haakelen turrest are the new active WCS __________________________________
Windorian	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:56:00 - [8] I seriously hope that you are joking. Since there has been ships, there have been weapons on ships. Space ships would be no different. If you fly it, you need to be able to protect it. Eve is based on an extension of humanity, originating on earth. The first weapons (aside from melee style, but a bit hard in space) were projectiles. The most common and effective weapons to date, are projectiles. Guided weaponry is more sophisticated, but is still fairly new (to us). In the distant future of eve, i assume, each culture would have begun just like we did, which is why they all use a variation of projectile weapons. Even caldari, the missile kings, have decent ships with hybrid weapons. Certainly, there are other things that could go in the high slots, but for certain ships, it just doesn't suit it's purpose. You wouldn't put a baby-seat on a jet-pack. So why build a ship for combat, and not use it's full firepower potential? Similarly, other ships are built this way as well. Missile boats get plenty of missile bays on the ships that need them. As far as your comments on the navy mega, come on. Your mentioning a ship that the NAVY took and modified to be more powerful in combat ( and more pricey) and then complaining that it's too good at doing exactly what it was designed for.
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:57:00 - [9] Originally by: Windorian As far as your comments on the navy mega, come on. Your mentioning a ship that the NAVY took and modified to be more powerful in combat ( and more pricey) and then complaining that it's too good at doing exactly what it was designed for. Just because you spend more doesn't mean your ship should be better!!! Show a tech 1 counter for the navy mega or it's overpowered
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:02:00 - [10] Originally by: Haakelen yes i agree look at this insantiy Megathron - 7 TURRETS 900 DPS Armageddon - 7 turrets 800 DPS BEST TRACKING IN THE GAME Rokh - 8 Turrets 1000 DPS with a tank bonus, not overpowered? yeah right Most the gangs that field these ships have tacklers and ships with webs and call primaries so add another 200 DPS. Even if they remove DAMAGE MODULES these ships will still be imbalanced. What we really need is more ECM, remove damage modules, and add a major stacking penality to all turrets and level 5 skills. Turrets weren't designed to do primary damage they were designed to fit mining lasers. It doesn't matter if missiles are boosted, turrest are the new active WCS. Imbalanced is when there are ships that don't need to use missiles, do large wrecking hits, and never die because they can keep shooting like cowards at any time. If they don't shoot missiles them how do you kill them? Training for a turret ship is not the asnwer. Thank you. Everything you just said is what I think is right. --
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:05:00 - [11] Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Windorian As far as your comments on the navy mega, come on. Your mentioning a ship that the NAVY took and modified to be more powerful in combat ( and more pricey) and then complaining that it's too good at doing exactly what it was designed for. Just because you spend more doesn't mean your ship should be better!!! Show a tech 1 counter for the navy mega or it's overpowered Yes but I don't care how much isk you spend, it still should not be overpowered. I shouldn't have to switch to a different ship type to combat your setup because I have already decided on what I want to fly. Now you tell me because you can spend and risk alot of isk that I have to adapt. I PAY to play this game. I picked MY way to play it, it should work my way! --
Zaran Darkstar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:06:00 - [12] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Ok, I know a few things about this game so I think that I could probably come up with really good ideas concerning games changes. So bear with me a tiny bit here. Turrets have become far too common on ships in EVE today, and it's obvious why. They are clearly overpowered. I mean, think about it. 3 of the 4 races use turrets instead of missiles (but you see alot of missile users out there too, so they must be badly balanced as well). Sniper fleet BS use turrets. So many powerful ships use turrets (EVEN TITANS!). But CCP doesn't do anything about it. There are so many other things to fit in high slots, which include neuts, nos, salvagers, cloaks, mining turrets. No one fits these, because there are much better (read overpowered) modules to fit into highs: turrets. The Navy Megathron does INSANE amount of DPS with their turrets. Clearly this is in need of a change due to their complete dominance of high slot usage. Please CCP, this game was not meant to be full of turrets and you should step in to take care of this horrible problem. THank you. I agree. Titans are overpowred with all these turret slots. Give them missiles slots to balance the game! What griefs me the most is that you are RAZOR
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:07:00 - [13] Originally by: Zaran Darkstar Originally by: Marcus Druallis Ok, I know a few things about this game so I think that I could probably come up with really good ideas concerning games changes. So bear with me a tiny bit here. Turrets have become far too common on ships in EVE today, and it's obvious why. They are clearly overpowered. I mean, think about it. 3 of the 4 races use turrets instead of missiles (but you see alot of missile users out there too, so they must be badly balanced as well). Sniper fleet BS use turrets. So many powerful ships use turrets (EVEN TITANS!). But CCP doesn't do anything about it. There are so many other things to fit in high slots, which include neuts, nos, salvagers, cloaks, mining turrets. No one fits these, because there are much better (read overpowered) modules to fit into highs: turrets. The Navy Megathron does INSANE amount of DPS with their turrets. Clearly this is in need of a change due to their complete dominance of high slot usage. Please CCP, this game was not meant to be full of turrets and you should step in to take care of this horrible problem. THank you. I agree. Titans are overpowred with all these turret slots. Give them missiles slots to balance the game! What griefs me the most is that you are RAZOR DONT READ [Shh, but I figured if I was gonna do it I would do it on my main :p] --
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:08:00 - [14] To counter turret ships you must use turret ships. Turret ships are always the answer. There is no reason to fly other ships except turret ships.
Zaran Darkstar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:10:00 - [15] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Zaran Darkstar Originally by: Marcus Druallis Ok, I know a few things about this game so I think that I could probably come up with really good ideas concerning games changes. So bear with me a tiny bit here. Turrets have become far too common on ships in EVE today, and it's obvious why. They are clearly overpowered. I mean, think about it. 3 of the 4 races use turrets instead of missiles (but you see alot of missile users out there too, so they must be badly balanced as well). Sniper fleet BS use turrets. So many powerful ships use turrets (EVEN TITANS!). But CCP doesn't do anything about it. There are so many other things to fit in high slots, which include neuts, nos, salvagers, cloaks, mining turrets. No one fits these, because there are much better (read overpowered) modules to fit into highs: turrets. The Navy Megathron does INSANE amount of DPS with their turrets. Clearly this is in need of a change due to their complete dominance of high slot usage. Please CCP, this game was not meant to be full of turrets and you should step in to take care of this horrible problem. THank you. I agree. Titans are overpowred with all these turret slots. Give them missiles slots to balance the game! What griefs me the most is that you are RAZOR DONT READ [Shh, but I figured if I was gonna do it I would do it on my main :p] Man are you serious? Look at your reasoning. "Titans are the most powerful ships in game. What the titans use as weapon ? Turrets. AHA! So that means the turrets are the strongest platform since Titans use turrets!"
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:13:00 - [16] Turrets are the strongest platform. They give all advantages and no downsides. Do you see anyone fitting Torpedo Apocalypses anymore? Of course not, because of Turret FOTM. Needs nerf.
Ambrosious Martin Son of Man	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:14:00 - [17] Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Windorian As far as your comments on the navy mega, come on. Your mentioning a ship that the NAVY took and modified to be more powerful in combat ( and more pricey) and then complaining that it's too good at doing exactly what it was designed for. Just because you spend more doesn't mean your ship should be better!!! Show a tech 1 counter for the navy mega or it's overpowered Hmmm it seems you left your brain in the **er this morn... the navy mega is T1. And can I say that when you spen more money in RL you get Better **... or dammit I want a refund on my farrari
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:15:00 - [18] Originally by: Ambrosious Martin Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Windorian As far as your comments on the navy mega, come on. Your mentioning a ship that the NAVY took and modified to be more powerful in combat ( and more pricey) and then complaining that it's too good at doing exactly what it was designed for. Just because you spend more doesn't mean your ship should be better!!! Show a tech 1 counter for the navy mega or it's overpowered Hmmm it seems you left your brain in the **er this morn... the navy mega is T1. And can I say that when you spen more money in RL you get Better **... or dammit I want a refund on my farrari ISK should not be the primary factor in combat worthiness! You are scared because your turret I win button will get nerf! Turrets are the tools for ganker greifers and griefer gankers. It must be nerfed.
Zaran Darkstar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:16:00 - [19] Originally by: Haakelen Turrets are the strongest platform. They give all advantages and no downsides. Do you see anyone fitting Torpedo Apocalypses anymore? Of course not, because of Turret FOTM. Needs nerf. And Titans are too powerful because of all these turret slots. NERF NERF!
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:23:00 - [20] Originally by: Zaran Darkstar Originally by: Haakelen Turrets are the strongest platform. They give all advantages and no downsides. Do you see anyone fitting Torpedo Apocalypses anymore? Of course not, because of Turret FOTM. Needs nerf. And Titans are too powerful because of all these turret slots. NERF NERF! No, only the Erebus and Avatar need it because they're primarily used with the overpowered turrets. The Leviathan is fine because it uses missiles, and the Ragnarok can use missiles too so it only needs a smaller nerf to make it balanced with other Titans. Why do you think the Avatar is the most popular titan? Because it uses turrets!
Arvald Caldari Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:38:00 - [21] very high quality i must admit, 8/10 Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw Stealthbomber combat (or as i like to call it: Just because you *are* paranoid don't mean there isnt a invisible demon about to eat your face)
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:39:00 - [22] Are you sure you did not mean Large Artillery being overpowdered?
Tenuo Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:41:00 - [23] I agree it's totally out of line. The Megathron does an insane amount of dps at close range, you just have to nano it so that you can get close real fast. The geddon is even more overpowered, it deals about the same dps, from 20 km range! This is clearly out of line because you dont even have to nano it, but you do anyway because then you can avoid all damage and all missiles and always survive a fight, you don't have to commit. To prove my point I have brought you this image, clearly showing how imbalanced it is: Nano geddon. Please CCP, adress this issue, the majority of the playerbase think that this is overpowered. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist.
Arkios Odymei Incarnation of Evil Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:49:00 - [24] Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 27/06/2008 17:49:58 If anything, that nano geddon shows how Turret ships should be! Notice how the DPS is on par with your average missile ship (such as a drake). THIS is balance. But sadly, not all turret ships are set up like this. The fact of the matter is that on turret ships, the low slots are usualy filled with Damage mods... now damage mods by them selves arent bad things, but when you combine them with turrets, it is completely IMBA. ------------------------------------------------------------------
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:56:00 - [25] Every ship has a counter, nothing is overpowered you just need to right tools(X) too kill ship(Y). Idiot whine about turret ships. Somebody set up us the bomb
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:58:00 - [26] Originally by: Elhina Novae Every ship has a counter, nothing is overpowered you just need to right tools(X) too kill ship(Y). Idiot whine about turret ships. You're just saying that because you rely on turret ship griefer tactics and call it PvP. The counter to turret ships shouldn't be more turret ships, it is imbalanced!
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.06.27 18:06:00 - [27] Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Elhina Novae Every ship has a counter, nothing is overpowered you just need to right tools(X) too kill ship(Y). Idiot whine about turret ships. You're just saying that because you rely on turret ship griefer tactics and call it PvP. The counter to turret ships shouldn't be more turret ships, it is imbalanced! Oh really am I? ^^ I rarely use turrets for pvp. More organized gangs with some thaught put into it. Missiles are just fine the way they are so are turrets. Turrets have downsides like Capacitor use(och not projectile), Tracking and in general skill intensive (if you want to be good.) Somebody set up us the bomb
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 18:07:00 - [28] Originally by: Elhina Novae Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Elhina Novae Every ship has a counter, nothing is overpowered you just need to right tools(X) too kill ship(Y). Idiot whine about turret ships. You're just saying that because you rely on turret ship griefer tactics and call it PvP. The counter to turret ships shouldn't be more turret ships, it is imbalanced! Oh really am I? ^^ I rarely use turrets for pvp. More organized gangs with some thaught put into it. Missiles are just fine the way they are so are turrets. Turrets have downsides like Capacitor use(och not projectile), Tracking and in general skill intensive (if you want to be good.) I shouldn't need to train anything to counter anything. Everything should counter everything. You want me to organize a gang? I shouldn't need to do that, they should just nerf turrets. It takes no skill to use turrets.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.06.27 18:43:00 - [29] Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Elhina Novae Every ship has a counter, nothing is overpowered you just need to right tools(X) too kill ship(Y). Idiot whine about turret ships. You're just saying that because you rely on turret ship griefer tactics and call it PvP. The counter to turret ships shouldn't be more turret ships, it is imbalanced! . . . You CAN shoot missiles at those ships dontchaknow? I mean, the Drake deals around 600 DPS @ 20km with a thick buffer. The Raven deals 1k DPS at 30km with a thick buffer. The only times a missile ship is at a real disadvantage is when the target is moving beyond the invulnerability mark (it happens often with HAC's and Intys) or when combat happens in fleet style situations. The second point is not going to be fixed unless missiles maintain current range by slashing flight time in favor of much higer velocity.
Daminma2 Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.27 18:44:00 - [30] Derek I really hope you understand that you are being trolled. If not I have just lost more faith in our gene pool.

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