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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.06.29 08:31:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Arkios Odymei
Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 29/06/2008 03:05:23
My goal is to specialize in a normal balanced missile ship, like a drake or caracal. This is what I want to do, and this is how I want to play. I pay $15 a month to play this game, and I'll be damned if someone if going to try and tell me how I should play it! Its not my fault that all of these turret ships practicaly laugh at the damage from my FOF heavy missiles as they nearly insta-gank me. CCP needs to realize this and nerf turrets into balance.
Its so much damage its rediculous. Even with a ship renown for its strong shield tank such as a drake, my medium shield booster couldnt keep up with the damage... even with shield rechargers fitted! I even tried fitting an armor rep and a hull rep too, hoping I can stay alive long enough to take them down... I could barely get past their shields, if that. Its so stupid, whats the point of having a tank on a ship if some turret user can just come along with their overpowered damage and rip through it as if it werent even there?
I don't know what you'd even do with a missile ship. Aren't those things for mining or something?
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.06.29 09:19:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Tasko Pal
Originally by: Arkios Odymei
Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 29/06/2008 03:05:23
My goal is to specialize in a normal balanced missile ship, like a drake or caracal. This is what I want to do, and this is how I want to play. I pay $15 a month to play this game, and I'll be damned if someone if going to try and tell me how I should play it! Its not my fault that all of these turret ships practicaly laugh at the damage from my FOF heavy missiles as they nearly insta-gank me. CCP needs to realize this and nerf turrets into balance.
Its so much damage its rediculous. Even with a ship renown for its strong shield tank such as a drake, my medium shield booster couldnt keep up with the damage... even with shield rechargers fitted! I even tried fitting an armor rep and a hull rep too, hoping I can stay alive long enough to take them down... I could barely get past their shields, if that. Its so stupid, whats the point of having a tank on a ship if some turret user can just come along with their overpowered damage and rip through it as if it werent even there?
I don't know what you'd even do with a missile ship. Aren't those things for mining or something?
For the billionth time DPS is not the issue with missiles. It's their inability to effectively engage fast targets (at cruiser sized launchers and larger) and thier dubious utility in larger scale combat. HAM armed drakes can put out a surprising amount of gank (600 or so DPS) and HML and Cruise armed caldari ships tend to be able to sling higher amounts of pain further than their peers (this is offset by the fact that in the extreme exampe of cruise missiles even a double plated trimarked battleship can warp out before your missiles hit at 249km.) |
Jane Sylari
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.06.29 10:20:00 -
[93]
Narf overpowdered turrents! Naw!  |
sh4rp ov3rvolt
Hikage Corporation
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.06.29 10:47:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Haakelen
Show a tech 1 counter for the navy mega or it's overpowered
Gallente racial, strenght rigged, dobule signalamp Blackbird?
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Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.06.29 11:22:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Ekrid on 29/06/2008 11:22:00
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Originally by: Tasko Pal
Originally by: Arkios Odymei
Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 29/06/2008 03:05:23
My goal is to specialize in a normal balanced missile ship, like a drake or caracal. This is what I want to do, and this is how I want to play. I pay $15 a month to play this game, and I'll be damned if someone if going to try and tell me how I should play it! Its not my fault that all of these turret ships practicaly laugh at the damage from my FOF heavy missiles as they nearly insta-gank me. CCP needs to realize this and nerf turrets into balance.
Its so much damage its rediculous. Even with a ship renown for its strong shield tank such as a drake, my medium shield booster couldnt keep up with the damage... even with shield rechargers fitted! I even tried fitting an armor rep and a hull rep too, hoping I can stay alive long enough to take them down... I could barely get past their shields, if that. Its so stupid, whats the point of having a tank on a ship if some turret user can just come along with their overpowered damage and rip through it as if it werent even there?
I don't know what you'd even do with a missile ship. Aren't those things for mining or something?
For the billionth time DPS is not the issue with missiles. It's their inability to effectively engage fast targets (at cruiser sized launchers and larger) and thier dubious utility in larger scale combat. HAM armed drakes can put out a surprising amount of gank (600 or so DPS) and HML and Cruise armed caldari ships tend to be able to sling higher amounts of pain further than their peers (this is offset by the fact that in the extreme exampe of cruise missiles even a double plated trimarked battleship can warp out before your missiles hit at 249km.)
the reason is that ships were never intended to go as fast as they currently can.
There is a dev blog floating around somewhere on this site which states that they wanted tactical gaming, not twitch gaming, and nanophags are akin to the latter. They are going to nerf nanos in the near future, and only frigates were originally designed to avoid much damage from a cruiser sized missile by going fast. Frigates are designed to speed tank larger ships, and armor/shield tank other frigates.
However, frigates speed tank very poorly atm, because of all these skills and modules that allow cruiser guns to easily hit any frigate stupid enough not to nano up and MWD. I have a feeling this will change too, along with the nano nerf.
even HACs can outrun the fastest missiles in the game. That does't make sense at all.
just wait for the nerf to give missiles back their deadliness.
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La Mila
Steel Battalion
Souls of Vengeance
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Posted - 2008.06.29 11:24:00 -
[96]
sad topic, stopped reading @ top of page 2, noob missile boat got killed by turret boat while playing with himself in low sec, let's all scream NERF so he can continue to play with himself in low sec.
*sigh* |
Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.06.29 11:55:00 -
[97]
Originally by: La Mila
sad topic, stopped reading @ top of page 2, noob missile boat got killed by turret boat while playing with himself in low sec, let's all scream NERF so he can continue to play with himself in low sec.
*sigh*
He's right about the part that CCP designed missile systems which are more or less ineffective during this current nano trend.
we'll all be praying that ends soon amirite?
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Herateis
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Posted - 2008.06.29 12:00:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Killer Kelly
Turrets aren't overpowered. Missiles are underpowered.
QFT.
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Rockets and HAMS need a slight dps boost. Other then that all is good.
nothing to do with power, but with the speed problem.
Lets put it this way. if nanos are kept in the game, then all missiles will have to be buffed in both travel velocity and explosion velocity, and I mean by a LOT.
This turns frigates into 100% damage targets with 0 mitigation, unlike what they were originally supposed to be. the smaller faster ship not taking much damage from an oversized weapon. It will force perma nano and MWD on frigates in order to mitigate damage, thus turning those into the only viable combat setups.
That means frigs will no longer be using setups like damage mods or tank mods, because they will need to rely on speed 100%.
You might see how the system has broken down because of the huge amount of speed modules and implants, with a complete lack of stacking nerfing.
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Kai Jyokoroi
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.06.29 14:38:00 -
[99]
Succesful troll is extremely succesful
Idiot posters are absolute idiots
(especially Derek)
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Amezyarak
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Posted - 2008.06.29 14:42:00 -
[100]
Originally by: La Mila
sad topic, stopped reading @ top of page 2, noob missile boat got killed by turret boat while playing with himself in low sec, let's all scream NERF so he can continue to play with himself in low sec.
*sigh*
+1
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Dianeces
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.29 16:42:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Kai Jyokoroi
Succesful troll is extremely succesful
Idiot posters are absolute idiots
(especially Derek)
Heretais bit pretty hard too. |
Blind Jhon
Amarr
Alenia psy departement
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Posted - 2008.06.29 17:32:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Blind Jhon on 29/06/2008 17:35:44
....the only weapon i miss ineve is smartbomb....
i'd love to have a dedicate ship
<3 explosions.....
anyways
i think the fact missile "never" miss, balance enought the turret's more dps
but i think rokets and heavy assault need some boost
your 650mmII autocannon perfectly turn of wreking your untanked minmatar ship |
OldMan Time
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.06.29 17:33:00 -
[103]
As a person who lives under a bridge and won't let people cross unless they correctly answer my riddles, I fully endorse this thread.
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Arkios Odymei
Incarnation of Evil
Nocturnal Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.29 17:39:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Ekrid
Edited by: Ekrid on 29/06/2008 11:22:00 Originally by: Derek Sigres
For the billionth time DPS is not the issue with missiles. It's their inability to effectively engage fast targets (at cruiser sized launchers and larger) and thier dubious utility in larger scale combat. HAM armed drakes can put out a surprising amount of gank (600 or so DPS) and HML and Cruise armed caldari ships tend to be able to sling higher amounts of pain further than their peers (this is offset by the fact that in the extreme exampe of cruise missiles even a double plated trimarked battleship can warp out before your missiles hit at 249km.)
the reason is that ships were never intended to go as fast as they currently can.
There is a dev blog floating around somewhere on this site which states that they wanted tactical gaming, not twitch gaming, and nanophags are akin to the latter. They are going to nerf nanos in the near future, and only frigates were originally designed to avoid much damage from a cruiser sized missile by going fast. Frigates are designed to speed tank larger ships, and armor/shield tank other frigates.
However, frigates speed tank very poorly atm, because of all these skills and modules that allow cruiser guns to easily hit any frigate stupid enough not to nano up and MWD. I have a feeling this will change too, along with the nano nerf.
even HACs can outrun the fastest missiles in the game. That does't make sense at all.
just wait for the nerf to give missiles back their deadliness.
WTH are you guys going on about? Stop trying to de-rail this thread with your nonsense. This thread is about overpowered gunboats and the fact that any other type of ship is unable to compete with their dps. I dont care that someone told you that at one time, somewhere on the internets a dev might have said something about something... It has nothing to do with the fact that turrents are overpowered!
Stay on topic please, and dont troll this thread. |
Suvliana
Minmatar
Coalition of Nations
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.06.29 18:49:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Windorian
As far as your comments on the navy mega, come on. Your mentioning a ship that the NAVY took and modified to be more powerful in combat ( and more pricey) and then complaining that it's too good at doing exactly what it was designed for.
Just because you spend more doesn't mean your ship should be better!!! Show a tech 1 counter for the navy mega or it's overpowered
Yes but I don't care how much isk you spend, it still should not be overpowered. I shouldn't have to switch to a different ship type to combat your setup because I have already decided on what I want to fly. Now you tell me because you can spend and risk alot of isk that I have to adapt. I PAY to play this game. I picked MY way to play it, it should work my way!
Your pulling our chain right? You want everyone ******* person in EVE to play the game so you win all the time cause you pay for it???? I own 3 accounts. I pay for this game too as well as the other subscribers. All the real men and women in here understand its a game, and you play it. I don't whine about nanoships or turrets and how they are overpowered. I understand that I play my way, Jim plays his way and if we fight its me vs him. And maybe my blob and his blob. Welcome to EVE Online - Where the kids and the men are seperated by who has balls and who *****es and whines cause they want to have everyone play their way.
So STFU, grow a pair and play EVE. Or go back to WOW, Age of Conan, or whatever ***** game you came from.
Sincerely,
Suvliana
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Borg9
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Posted - 2008.06.29 19:56:00 -
[106]
Originally by: sh4rp ov3rvolt
Originally by: Haakelen
Show a tech 1 counter for the navy mega or it's overpowered
Gallente racial, strenght rigged, dobule signalamp Blackbird?
U=fail drones would 2 volley bb.
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Lokius Ahgamemnon
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Posted - 2008.06.29 22:53:00 -
[107]
The counter to turret ships you say? I believe ecm does a fine job at that.
It's a little thing called turret disruptors....
use ur damn brain and stop whineing,
nothing is broken but the user...
adapt to survive,
don't adapt thats cool too just be prepared for me to be hanging your corpse in my hangar!
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.06.30 01:36:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Franga on 30/06/2008 01:37:18
I think the last 2 pages of posters have missed the point of his post. I'm quite sure if you read his post carefully (please note it's very hard to see) you'll find it's written with a 'tongue in cheek' attitude and intent. And some sarcasm.
About 20 barrels of sarcasm.
 |
Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.06.30 01:41:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Arkios Odymei
You still dont get it. I SHOULDNT HAVE TO TRAIN FOR SOMETHING THAT I DONT WANT TO! How can you not understand this!?!?
My goal is to specialize in a normal balanced missile ship, like a drake or caracal. This is what I want to do, and this is how I want to play. I pay $15 a month to play this game, and I'll be damned if someone if going to try and tell me how I should play it! Its not my fault that all of these turret ships practicaly laugh at the damage from my FOF heavy missiles as they nearly insta-gank me. CCP needs to realize this and nerf turrets into balance.
Its so much damage its rediculous. Even with a ship renown for its strong shield tank such as a drake, my medium shield booster couldnt keep up with the damage... even with shield rechargers fitted! I even tried fitting an armor rep and a hull rep too, hoping I can stay alive long enough to take them down... I could barely get past their shields, if that. Its so stupid, whats the point of having a tank on a ship if some turret user can just come along with their overpowered damage and rip through it as if it werent even there?
Awesome. Just awesome. Srsly. I loled.  |
Malakai Fleur
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.06.30 03:15:00 -
[110]
i can't believe you guys missed teh most improtant part. FRACTION TURRENTS. All you have to do is get one of the overpowered turrent ships and put the even more overpowered fraction turrents on it and you cant even stop them. this one time my friend was fighting a ammar omen that had 2 caldari navy railguns, 2 i think sasha lasers and i think a rocket launcher in his drake and he didnt even last like more than 2 minutes. Oh! and the guys had aclyte drones, nopt even mining drones! i think fraction turrents should be a lot weaker.
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Imaos
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Posted - 2008.06.30 07:10:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Malakai Fleur
i can't believe you guys missed teh most improtant part. FRACTION TURRENTS. All you have to do is get one of the overpowered turrent ships and put the even more overpowered fraction turrents on it and you cant even stop them. this one time my friend was fighting a ammar omen that had 2 caldari navy railguns, 2 i think sasha lasers and i think a rocket launcher in his drake and he didnt even last like more than 2 minutes. Oh! and the guys had aclyte drones, nopt even mining drones! i think fraction turrents should be a lot weaker.
Even better. Wait for the new named t2: FRACTAL TURRENTS. Does fractal damage and is pretty, too. It is the new fifth damage type and no one will have resists (the exception being ships requiring concord frigate/cruiser/battleship skill or jovian frigate/cruiser/battleship). As opposed to fraction guns which just let you fit more than one gun to every slot (For example the 1/2 Fraction Serpentis Guns which need both hybrid and projectile skills to work and you can fit 2 per turret hardpoint) the fractal guns make sure you always have some odd number of turret hardpoints left (.523587345 turret hardpoints par example) and so are balanced as everyone will try to use up all available gun hardpoints.
Imaos
------------------------------------------
Originally by: NoNah
My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. |
Kano Sekor
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.06.30 07:16:00 -
[112]
Torrents are overpowered in my oppinion they:
1. Distribute data over the internets really fast
2. Dont contribute to server load
3. Dont count as illegal as they only link to the illegal data
4. Has free clients.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Imaos
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Posted - 2008.06.30 07:23:00 -
[113]
Serious:
Turrets vs Missiles is fine. Disassembling the latest Friday rant thread:
3 of 4 races uses turrets: Yep and there are also 3 different lines of turrets to train for. Still most use the turret line the missile race uses, too.
Turrets vs Utility: Turrets kill PERIOD. Utility help kill. So utility is clear overpowered as you need only 1 or 2 to get the best performance.
Navy Megathron Insane Damage: Torp Raven does also formidable damage and at longer range.
Missiles are easier to use. You don't need to watch range and transversal as close as turret users. Close range missiles do enough damage to compete. Long range missiles can hit close by targets, too, which the low damage long range turrets can't hit due to transversal. There is also more EWAR to effect turrets than missiles.
This thread so much sounds like: I can get more damage on minmatar bs with lasers than projectiles. Projectiles suck. To bad you run out of cap with lasers.
Imaos
------------------------------------------
Originally by: NoNah
My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. |
Lakche
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 07:40:00 -
[114]
1. The real problem with turrents is that it's a win-draw situation. Imagine this. A group of Ravens on a gate, and an invading fleet of turrent using Megas. Now if the Megas decide to jump in, they can shoot the Ravens at different ranges; if it's farther, then turrets receive a better tracking bonus, and if it's closer than turrents are firing in their already overpowered optimal ranges for ridiculous damage. Tracking disruptors basically don't work, because turrents can dictate firing. The Megas can just warp out if they're outnumbered, or (if they have mining turrents) get veldspar in a nearby belt. Therefor there's no risk involved, because in the worst case scenario the turrent ships get their isk back in valuable tritanium. Really, the only counter is more turrents.
2. What I propose is modifying turret disruptors to actually do their job, based on different signature radiuses. There will be a frigeta sized disrutpor, a cruisre sized one, and a battelship sized. The first will fire at a longer range, but (depending on signature radius) seriously hamper tracking and optimal ranges, and falloff too, and the bigger ones do the more at less range of course, and so on. Basically, if a turrent ship uses low slot mods to improve their cheap weapons, it actually doesn't equate to any bonus because the tracking disruptors are chance based depending on the target's tracking speed. I did alot of math in EFT, so you can basically just trust me that it doesn't actually matter.
3. Anyways, the *real* problem is sovereignty mechanics in 0.0 space. What I'm talking about is blobs. Since so many people just blob, or hot drop a carrier with like 90 - with 500 fighters anywhere, the only counter is more turrents. I think Jade Constantine would back me up in saying that implementing destructable POS will ensure that turrent abuse drops to almost nothing. (Also note that someone can AFK mine all day long in local, and this basically makes everyone in that channel blind, because they don't know if he's going active or not, so noone can use local, and they can't use probes to find him because he mined all the trit.) |
Pushtan
Ministry of Destruction
Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 10:05:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Originally by: Haakelen
Originally by: Windorian
I PAY to play this game. I picked MY way to play it, it should work my way!
AHAHAHHAAAA!!!
I pay too, can i have a Thanatos (carrier) with 100 drones now? I WANT THE GAME TO CHANGE FOR ME !!!!! /toysouttathepram |
Unreal5
Malicious Intentions
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 10:50:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Ok, I know a few things about this game so I think that I could probably come up with really good ideas concerning games changes. So bear with me a tiny bit here.
Turrets have become far too common on ships in EVE today, and it's obvious why. They are clearly overpowered. I mean, think about it. 3 of the 4 races use turrets instead of missiles (but you see alot of missile users out there too, so they must be badly balanced as well). Sniper fleet BS use turrets. So many powerful ships use turrets (EVEN TITANS!).
But CCP doesn't do anything about it. There are so many other things to fit in high slots, which include neuts, nos, salvagers, cloaks, mining turrets. No one fits these, because there are much better (read overpowered) modules to fit into highs: turrets.
The Navy Megathron does INSANE amount of DPS with their turrets. Clearly this is in need of a change due to their complete dominance of high slot usage. Please CCP, this game was not meant to be full of turrets and you should step in to take care of this horrible problem. THank you.
NO U |
Gawain Hill
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 10:57:00 -
[117]
i can't belive we have 4 pages of people debating a joke thread |
Anubis Xian
Reavers
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 11:15:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Gawain Hill
i can't belive we have 4 pages of people debating a joke thread
And I refuse to believe its not butter.
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
I'm the Juggernaut, *****! |
H Lecter
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 12:05:00 -
[119]
Reading this thread made my eyes bleed.
Please stop this nonsense and lock it...
BTW - Missiles are overpowered and need to be nerfed, using a Torp Raven with damage mods is the 'I win' button, blablabla, yaddayaddayadda |
Lamonadetomare
|
Posted - 2008.06.30 12:41:00 -
[120]
boost tractor beam so i can tractor nanoship inside my web range |
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