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Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:41:00 - [1] Ok, I know a few things about this game so I think that I could probably come up with really good ideas concerning games changes. So bear with me a tiny bit here. Turrets have become far too common on ships in EVE today, and it's obvious why. They are clearly overpowered. I mean, think about it. 3 of the 4 races use turrets instead of missiles (but you see alot of missile users out there too, so they must be badly balanced as well). Sniper fleet BS use turrets. So many powerful ships use turrets (EVEN TITANS!). But CCP doesn't do anything about it. There are so many other things to fit in high slots, which include neuts, nos, salvagers, cloaks, mining turrets. No one fits these, because there are much better (read overpowered) modules to fit into highs: turrets. The Navy Megathron does INSANE amount of DPS with their turrets. Clearly this is in need of a change due to their complete dominance of high slot usage. Please CCP, this game was not meant to be full of turrets and you should step in to take care of this horrible problem. THank you. --
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:44:00 - [2] 8/10. I almost believed it, until you went to titans.
Einherji	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:47:00 - [3] the caldari can use turrets, and the rohk last time I checked is a ok sniper platform, I recommend that you do a little more research before making such claims. the moa, eagle, ferox and rohk are all hybrid using ships, well maybe other ship does it better but thoose ships are turret ships.
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:48:00 - [4] yes i agree look at this insantiy Megathron - 7 TURRETS 900 DPS Armageddon - 7 turrets 800 DPS BEST TRACKING IN THE GAME Rokh - 8 Turrets 1000 DPS with a tank bonus, not overpowered? yeah right Most the gangs that field these ships have tacklers and ships with webs and call primaries so add another 200 DPS. Even if they remove DAMAGE MODULES these ships will still be imbalanced. What we really need is more ECM, remove damage modules, and add a major stacking penality to all turrets and level 5 skills. Turrets weren't designed to do primary damage they were designed to fit mining lasers. It doesn't matter if missiles are boosted, turrest are the new active WCS. Imbalanced is when there are ships that don't need to use missiles, do large wrecking hits, and never die because they can keep shooting like cowards at any time. If they don't shoot missiles them how do you kill them? Training for a turret ship is not the asnwer.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:48:00 - [5] Missiles have exactly two problems in my book: 1) Travel time - against slower, more distant targets this factor alone means their utility in large fleet fights is questionable. Afterall, if your fire missieles at primary they will probably never make contact. If you fire missiles at tertiary they MAY make contact but if you are forced to warp or get popped in the 30 seconds they are in the air you miss. 2) Medium class missiles are incapable of hitting most modern medium class ships for any real damage. This is because most medium class ships are nano'd and once your ship exceeds aboug 3 k/s you can effective ignore most of the damage a missile using cruiser/bc can sling at you.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum TRUST Coalition	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:48:00 - [6] Actually, titans often fit mining lasers in combat. Well - at least once...
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:52:00 - [7] Originally by: Haakelen turrest are the new active WCS __________________________________
Windorian	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:56:00 - [8] I seriously hope that you are joking. Since there has been ships, there have been weapons on ships. Space ships would be no different. If you fly it, you need to be able to protect it. Eve is based on an extension of humanity, originating on earth. The first weapons (aside from melee style, but a bit hard in space) were projectiles. The most common and effective weapons to date, are projectiles. Guided weaponry is more sophisticated, but is still fairly new (to us). In the distant future of eve, i assume, each culture would have begun just like we did, which is why they all use a variation of projectile weapons. Even caldari, the missile kings, have decent ships with hybrid weapons. Certainly, there are other things that could go in the high slots, but for certain ships, it just doesn't suit it's purpose. You wouldn't put a baby-seat on a jet-pack. So why build a ship for combat, and not use it's full firepower potential? Similarly, other ships are built this way as well. Missile boats get plenty of missile bays on the ships that need them. As far as your comments on the navy mega, come on. Your mentioning a ship that the NAVY took and modified to be more powerful in combat ( and more pricey) and then complaining that it's too good at doing exactly what it was designed for.
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 16:57:00 - [9] Originally by: Windorian As far as your comments on the navy mega, come on. Your mentioning a ship that the NAVY took and modified to be more powerful in combat ( and more pricey) and then complaining that it's too good at doing exactly what it was designed for. Just because you spend more doesn't mean your ship should be better!!! Show a tech 1 counter for the navy mega or it's overpowered
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:02:00 - [10] Originally by: Haakelen yes i agree look at this insantiy Megathron - 7 TURRETS 900 DPS Armageddon - 7 turrets 800 DPS BEST TRACKING IN THE GAME Rokh - 8 Turrets 1000 DPS with a tank bonus, not overpowered? yeah right Most the gangs that field these ships have tacklers and ships with webs and call primaries so add another 200 DPS. Even if they remove DAMAGE MODULES these ships will still be imbalanced. What we really need is more ECM, remove damage modules, and add a major stacking penality to all turrets and level 5 skills. Turrets weren't designed to do primary damage they were designed to fit mining lasers. It doesn't matter if missiles are boosted, turrest are the new active WCS. Imbalanced is when there are ships that don't need to use missiles, do large wrecking hits, and never die because they can keep shooting like cowards at any time. If they don't shoot missiles them how do you kill them? Training for a turret ship is not the asnwer. Thank you. Everything you just said is what I think is right. --
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:05:00 - [11] Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Windorian As far as your comments on the navy mega, come on. Your mentioning a ship that the NAVY took and modified to be more powerful in combat ( and more pricey) and then complaining that it's too good at doing exactly what it was designed for. Just because you spend more doesn't mean your ship should be better!!! Show a tech 1 counter for the navy mega or it's overpowered Yes but I don't care how much isk you spend, it still should not be overpowered. I shouldn't have to switch to a different ship type to combat your setup because I have already decided on what I want to fly. Now you tell me because you can spend and risk alot of isk that I have to adapt. I PAY to play this game. I picked MY way to play it, it should work my way! --
Zaran Darkstar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:06:00 - [12] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Ok, I know a few things about this game so I think that I could probably come up with really good ideas concerning games changes. So bear with me a tiny bit here. Turrets have become far too common on ships in EVE today, and it's obvious why. They are clearly overpowered. I mean, think about it. 3 of the 4 races use turrets instead of missiles (but you see alot of missile users out there too, so they must be badly balanced as well). Sniper fleet BS use turrets. So many powerful ships use turrets (EVEN TITANS!). But CCP doesn't do anything about it. There are so many other things to fit in high slots, which include neuts, nos, salvagers, cloaks, mining turrets. No one fits these, because there are much better (read overpowered) modules to fit into highs: turrets. The Navy Megathron does INSANE amount of DPS with their turrets. Clearly this is in need of a change due to their complete dominance of high slot usage. Please CCP, this game was not meant to be full of turrets and you should step in to take care of this horrible problem. THank you. I agree. Titans are overpowred with all these turret slots. Give them missiles slots to balance the game! What griefs me the most is that you are RAZOR
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:07:00 - [13] Originally by: Zaran Darkstar Originally by: Marcus Druallis Ok, I know a few things about this game so I think that I could probably come up with really good ideas concerning games changes. So bear with me a tiny bit here. Turrets have become far too common on ships in EVE today, and it's obvious why. They are clearly overpowered. I mean, think about it. 3 of the 4 races use turrets instead of missiles (but you see alot of missile users out there too, so they must be badly balanced as well). Sniper fleet BS use turrets. So many powerful ships use turrets (EVEN TITANS!). But CCP doesn't do anything about it. There are so many other things to fit in high slots, which include neuts, nos, salvagers, cloaks, mining turrets. No one fits these, because there are much better (read overpowered) modules to fit into highs: turrets. The Navy Megathron does INSANE amount of DPS with their turrets. Clearly this is in need of a change due to their complete dominance of high slot usage. Please CCP, this game was not meant to be full of turrets and you should step in to take care of this horrible problem. THank you. I agree. Titans are overpowred with all these turret slots. Give them missiles slots to balance the game! What griefs me the most is that you are RAZOR DONT READ [Shh, but I figured if I was gonna do it I would do it on my main :p] --
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:08:00 - [14] To counter turret ships you must use turret ships. Turret ships are always the answer. There is no reason to fly other ships except turret ships.
Zaran Darkstar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:10:00 - [15] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Zaran Darkstar Originally by: Marcus Druallis Ok, I know a few things about this game so I think that I could probably come up with really good ideas concerning games changes. So bear with me a tiny bit here. Turrets have become far too common on ships in EVE today, and it's obvious why. They are clearly overpowered. I mean, think about it. 3 of the 4 races use turrets instead of missiles (but you see alot of missile users out there too, so they must be badly balanced as well). Sniper fleet BS use turrets. So many powerful ships use turrets (EVEN TITANS!). But CCP doesn't do anything about it. There are so many other things to fit in high slots, which include neuts, nos, salvagers, cloaks, mining turrets. No one fits these, because there are much better (read overpowered) modules to fit into highs: turrets. The Navy Megathron does INSANE amount of DPS with their turrets. Clearly this is in need of a change due to their complete dominance of high slot usage. Please CCP, this game was not meant to be full of turrets and you should step in to take care of this horrible problem. THank you. I agree. Titans are overpowred with all these turret slots. Give them missiles slots to balance the game! What griefs me the most is that you are RAZOR DONT READ [Shh, but I figured if I was gonna do it I would do it on my main :p] Man are you serious? Look at your reasoning. "Titans are the most powerful ships in game. What the titans use as weapon ? Turrets. AHA! So that means the turrets are the strongest platform since Titans use turrets!"
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:13:00 - [16] Turrets are the strongest platform. They give all advantages and no downsides. Do you see anyone fitting Torpedo Apocalypses anymore? Of course not, because of Turret FOTM. Needs nerf.
Ambrosious Martin Son of Man	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:14:00 - [17] Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Windorian As far as your comments on the navy mega, come on. Your mentioning a ship that the NAVY took and modified to be more powerful in combat ( and more pricey) and then complaining that it's too good at doing exactly what it was designed for. Just because you spend more doesn't mean your ship should be better!!! Show a tech 1 counter for the navy mega or it's overpowered Hmmm it seems you left your brain in the **er this morn... the navy mega is T1. And can I say that when you spen more money in RL you get Better **... or dammit I want a refund on my farrari
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:15:00 - [18] Originally by: Ambrosious Martin Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Windorian As far as your comments on the navy mega, come on. Your mentioning a ship that the NAVY took and modified to be more powerful in combat ( and more pricey) and then complaining that it's too good at doing exactly what it was designed for. Just because you spend more doesn't mean your ship should be better!!! Show a tech 1 counter for the navy mega or it's overpowered Hmmm it seems you left your brain in the **er this morn... the navy mega is T1. And can I say that when you spen more money in RL you get Better **... or dammit I want a refund on my farrari ISK should not be the primary factor in combat worthiness! You are scared because your turret I win button will get nerf! Turrets are the tools for ganker greifers and griefer gankers. It must be nerfed.
Zaran Darkstar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:16:00 - [19] Originally by: Haakelen Turrets are the strongest platform. They give all advantages and no downsides. Do you see anyone fitting Torpedo Apocalypses anymore? Of course not, because of Turret FOTM. Needs nerf. And Titans are too powerful because of all these turret slots. NERF NERF!
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:23:00 - [20] Originally by: Zaran Darkstar Originally by: Haakelen Turrets are the strongest platform. They give all advantages and no downsides. Do you see anyone fitting Torpedo Apocalypses anymore? Of course not, because of Turret FOTM. Needs nerf. And Titans are too powerful because of all these turret slots. NERF NERF! No, only the Erebus and Avatar need it because they're primarily used with the overpowered turrets. The Leviathan is fine because it uses missiles, and the Ragnarok can use missiles too so it only needs a smaller nerf to make it balanced with other Titans. Why do you think the Avatar is the most popular titan? Because it uses turrets!
Arvald Caldari Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:38:00 - [21] very high quality i must admit, 8/10 Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw Stealthbomber combat (or as i like to call it: Just because you *are* paranoid don't mean there isnt a invisible demon about to eat your face)
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:39:00 - [22] Are you sure you did not mean Large Artillery being overpowdered?
Tenuo Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:41:00 - [23] I agree it's totally out of line. The Megathron does an insane amount of dps at close range, you just have to nano it so that you can get close real fast. The geddon is even more overpowered, it deals about the same dps, from 20 km range! This is clearly out of line because you dont even have to nano it, but you do anyway because then you can avoid all damage and all missiles and always survive a fight, you don't have to commit. To prove my point I have brought you this image, clearly showing how imbalanced it is: Nano geddon. Please CCP, adress this issue, the majority of the playerbase think that this is overpowered. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist.
Arkios Odymei Incarnation of Evil Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:49:00 - [24] Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 27/06/2008 17:49:58 If anything, that nano geddon shows how Turret ships should be! Notice how the DPS is on par with your average missile ship (such as a drake). THIS is balance. But sadly, not all turret ships are set up like this. The fact of the matter is that on turret ships, the low slots are usualy filled with Damage mods... now damage mods by them selves arent bad things, but when you combine them with turrets, it is completely IMBA. ------------------------------------------------------------------
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:56:00 - [25] Every ship has a counter, nothing is overpowered you just need to right tools(X) too kill ship(Y). Idiot whine about turret ships. Somebody set up us the bomb
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 17:58:00 - [26] Originally by: Elhina Novae Every ship has a counter, nothing is overpowered you just need to right tools(X) too kill ship(Y). Idiot whine about turret ships. You're just saying that because you rely on turret ship griefer tactics and call it PvP. The counter to turret ships shouldn't be more turret ships, it is imbalanced!
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.06.27 18:06:00 - [27] Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Elhina Novae Every ship has a counter, nothing is overpowered you just need to right tools(X) too kill ship(Y). Idiot whine about turret ships. You're just saying that because you rely on turret ship griefer tactics and call it PvP. The counter to turret ships shouldn't be more turret ships, it is imbalanced! Oh really am I? ^^ I rarely use turrets for pvp. More organized gangs with some thaught put into it. Missiles are just fine the way they are so are turrets. Turrets have downsides like Capacitor use(och not projectile), Tracking and in general skill intensive (if you want to be good.) Somebody set up us the bomb
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 18:07:00 - [28] Originally by: Elhina Novae Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Elhina Novae Every ship has a counter, nothing is overpowered you just need to right tools(X) too kill ship(Y). Idiot whine about turret ships. You're just saying that because you rely on turret ship griefer tactics and call it PvP. The counter to turret ships shouldn't be more turret ships, it is imbalanced! Oh really am I? ^^ I rarely use turrets for pvp. More organized gangs with some thaught put into it. Missiles are just fine the way they are so are turrets. Turrets have downsides like Capacitor use(och not projectile), Tracking and in general skill intensive (if you want to be good.) I shouldn't need to train anything to counter anything. Everything should counter everything. You want me to organize a gang? I shouldn't need to do that, they should just nerf turrets. It takes no skill to use turrets.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.06.27 18:43:00 - [29] Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Elhina Novae Every ship has a counter, nothing is overpowered you just need to right tools(X) too kill ship(Y). Idiot whine about turret ships. You're just saying that because you rely on turret ship griefer tactics and call it PvP. The counter to turret ships shouldn't be more turret ships, it is imbalanced! . . . You CAN shoot missiles at those ships dontchaknow? I mean, the Drake deals around 600 DPS @ 20km with a thick buffer. The Raven deals 1k DPS at 30km with a thick buffer. The only times a missile ship is at a real disadvantage is when the target is moving beyond the invulnerability mark (it happens often with HAC's and Intys) or when combat happens in fleet style situations. The second point is not going to be fixed unless missiles maintain current range by slashing flight time in favor of much higer velocity.
Daminma2 Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.27 18:44:00 - [30] Derek I really hope you understand that you are being trolled. If not I have just lost more faith in our gene pool.
Nul Settys Caldari UnderDog Industries Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.06.27 19:03:00 - [31] Quote: It takes no skill to use turrets. The simple fact is that it takes far more skill to kill someone with a mining laser than it does with a turret.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.06.27 19:04:00 - [32] Originally by: Nul Settys Quote: It takes no skill to use turrets. The simple fact is that it takes far more skill to kill someone with a mining laser than it does with a turret. It would be hilarious if you could slowly deconstruct a ship into it's various mineral components with a mining laser. . . Really it would.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.27 19:36:00 - [33] Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Elhina Novae Every ship has a counter, nothing is overpowered you just need to right tools(X) too kill ship(Y). Idiot whine about turret ships. You're just saying that because you rely on turret ship griefer tactics and call it PvP. The counter to turret ships shouldn't be more turret ships, it is imbalanced! Exactly he is just defending it because he is afraid his obviously overpowered turrets will be nerfed. Alot of people have been talking about how overpowered they are. This isn't how EVE was SUPPOSED to be. Turrets are tearing it apart. --
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 19:39:00 - [34] There's only one DIRECT counter to Turrets - that's Tracking Disruptors. You MUST train Amarr skills to counter turrets. Unless you just use more turrets, but the answer shouldn't be that you have to exploit to solve an exploit. Any reasonable non-turret weenie will see they need a nerf.
Tenuo Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.06.27 19:43:00 - [35] Anyone failing to realize that this discussion is being run similarly to the nano discussion are really dumb. This just shows that all those arguments they use can be put forward to about any issue. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.27 19:51:00 - [36] I mean the only response people give to fighting against turrets is: train for Amarr recons. What if I'm happy in the ship I've been flying since 2003? Or what if I just don't have the millions of skillpoints to invest into Amarr cruiser 5. It's not fair at all. I'm not amarr, how can people that aren't amarr fight against turrets? More turrents? --
Zhilia Mann	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:15:00 - [37] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Turrets have become far too common on ships in EVE today, and it's obvious why. They are clearly overpowered. I mean, think about it. 3 of the 4 races use turrets instead of missiles (but you see alot of missile users out there too, so they must be badly balanced as well). Sniper fleet BS use turrets. So many powerful ships use turrets (EVEN TITANS!). But CCP doesn't do anything about it. There are so many other things to fit in high slots, which include neuts, nos, salvagers, cloaks, mining turrets. No one fits these, because there are much better (read overpowered) modules to fit into highs: turrets. The Navy Megathron does INSANE amount of DPS with their turrets. Clearly this is in need of a change due to their complete dominance of high slot usage. Please CCP, this game was not meant to be full of turrets and you should step in to take care of this horrible problem. THank you. You meant turents, right?
Cynthia Ysolde Tritanium Workers Union	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:17:00 - [38] 10/10 tbqh, turrets and epidermis have been needing a nerf for quite some time, fu
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:18:00 - [39] To be fair, titans don't fit turrets oO Nerf smartbombs plox
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:20:00 - [40] Originally by: Zhilia Mann Originally by: Marcus Druallis Turrets have become far too common on ships in EVE today, and it's obvious why. They are clearly overpowered. I mean, think about it. 3 of the 4 races use turrets instead of missiles (but you see alot of missile users out there too, so they must be badly balanced as well). Sniper fleet BS use turrets. So many powerful ships use turrets (EVEN TITANS!). But CCP doesn't do anything about it. There are so many other things to fit in high slots, which include neuts, nos, salvagers, cloaks, mining turrets. No one fits these, because there are much better (read overpowered) modules to fit into highs: turrets. The Navy Megathron does INSANE amount of DPS with their turrets. Clearly this is in need of a change due to their complete dominance of high slot usage. Please CCP, this game was not meant to be full of turrets and you should step in to take care of this horrible problem. THank you. You meant turents, right? Thank you, don't know how I mispelled it. --
Gjs312 A Murder of Crows.	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:24:00 - [41] Well honostly its not only turret ships that are overpowered, it is also such things as gallente drones (which everyone knows is overpowered) and ships that are able to exceed 2500 m/s. If you nerf one thing people will just find another thing to exploit and ruin the game for everyone. I think that the obvious solution to the problem is simply to remove weapons from eve all together. This eliminates all overpowered ships in one fell swoop and will balance things out perfectly with little effort from the developers. We additionally should auto-ban all amarr characters for exploiting with thier turrets. This is something I would like to be brought up at the next CSM meeting with high importance. Thank you -Gj.
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:33:00 - [42] Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Elhina Novae Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Elhina Novae Every ship has a counter, nothing is overpowered you just need to right tools(X) too kill ship(Y). Idiot whine about turret ships. You're just saying that because you rely on turret ship griefer tactics and call it PvP. The counter to turret ships shouldn't be more turret ships, it is imbalanced! Oh really am I? ^^ I rarely use turrets for pvp. More organized gangs with some thaught put into it. Missiles are just fine the way they are so are turrets. Turrets have downsides like Capacitor use(och not projectile), Tracking and in general skill intensive (if you want to be good.) I shouldn't need to train anything to counter anything. Everything should counter everything. You want me to organize a gang? I shouldn't need to do that, they should just nerf turrets. It takes no skill to use turrets. Woho what a fun game we'd have! Lets make all ships the same exept for it's hull! Go back to WoW please? Training/Patience is key in this game Somebody set up us the bomb
Gjs312 A Murder of Crows.	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:39:00 - [43] Originally by: Elhina Novae Woho what a fun game we'd have! Lets make all ships the same exept for it's hull! Go back to WoW please? Training/Patience is key in this game. All races has its own special flavor, all weapon systems has its own advantage/disadvantage. Hey, we should all be able to fly whatever ships we want and have those ships defeat our enemy if we have more people then them, and turrets are wrecking this for a lot of people. Get your trolling out of this thread before it gets locked please .
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:42:00 - [44] Originally by: Gjs312 Originally by: Elhina Novae Woho what a fun game we'd have! Lets make all ships the same exept for it's hull! Go back to WoW please? Training/Patience is key in this game. All races has its own special flavor, all weapon systems has its own advantage/disadvantage. Hey, we should all be able to fly whatever ships we want and have those ships defeat our enemy if we have more people then them, and turrets are wrecking this for a lot of people. Get your trolling out of this thread before it gets locked please . What he said. This is a serious thread, in which we're discussing a serious problem in Eve, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to derail it with your pro-Turret pro-gank pro-griefer comments.
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:51:00 - [45] Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Gjs312 Originally by: Elhina Novae Woho what a fun game we'd have! Lets make all ships the same exept for it's hull! Go back to WoW please? Training/Patience is key in this game. All races has its own special flavor, all weapon systems has its own advantage/disadvantage. Hey, we should all be able to fly whatever ships we want and have those ships defeat our enemy if we have more people then them, and turrets are wrecking this for a lot of people. Get your trolling out of this thread before it gets locked please . What he said. This is a serious thread, in which we're discussing a serious problem in Eve, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to derail it with your pro-Turret pro-gank pro-griefer comments. Haha to funny you fail too see the irony in his post smartass Somebody set up us the bomb
Tenuo Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:52:00 - [46] Originally by: Elhina Novae Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Gjs312 Originally by: Elhina Novae Woho what a fun game we'd have! Lets make all ships the same exept for it's hull! Go back to WoW please? Training/Patience is key in this game. All races has its own special flavor, all weapon systems has its own advantage/disadvantage. Hey, we should all be able to fly whatever ships we want and have those ships defeat our enemy if we have more people then them, and turrets are wrecking this for a lot of people. Get your trolling out of this thread before it gets locked please . What he said. This is a serious thread, in which we're discussing a serious problem in Eve, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to derail it with your pro-Turret pro-gank pro-griefer comments. Haha to funny you fail too see the irony in his post smartass Seriously stop posting. I'm a 5+ year old veteran, I know much more about the game than you do so by default my oppinion > your oppinion. _______________________________________________________________________________ EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist.
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:52:00 - [47] [WARNING] Useless thread count overflow imminent.
SickSeven	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:53:00 - [48] Serious posters fail at humour 101.
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.06.27 20:57:00 - [49] Originally by: Tenuo Seriously stop posting. I'm a 5+ year old veteran, I know much more about the game than you do so by default my oppinion > your oppinion. I see what you did tharr Somebody set up us the bomb
Greckor Monmouth THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.06.27 21:56:00 - [50] Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Windorian As far as your comments on the navy mega, come on. Your mentioning a ship that the NAVY took and modified to be more powerful in combat ( and more pricey) and then complaining that it's too good at doing exactly what it was designed for. Just because you spend more doesn't mean your ship should be better!!! Show a tech 1 counter for the navy mega or it's overpowered Nyx
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.27 21:58:00 - [51] Originally by: Gjs312 Well honostly its not only turret ships that are overpowered, it is also such things as gallente drones (which everyone knows is overpowered) and ships that are able to exceed 2500 m/s. If you nerf one thing people will just find another thing to exploit and ruin the game for everyone. I think that the obvious solution to the problem is simply to remove weapons from eve all together. This eliminates all overpowered ships in one fell swoop and will balance things out perfectly with little effort from the developers. We additionally should auto-ban all amarr characters for exploiting with thier turrets. This is something I would like to be brought up at the next CSM meeting with high importance. Thank you -Gj. THat raises another point though. Gallente is rediculously overpowered due to drones. I mean, look at the ishtar. That ship can field turrets, AS WELL as drones. I mean, this isn't that bad if your a new player in the ishtar. But, imagine one of the elite pvpers in EVE. They can field as many as FIVE drones. Fielding five drones makes it essentially 6 on 1 (if you are alone) from one account. That right there is completely unfair and should be removed. But lets stay on turrets. --
Ringo Jeicha Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.06.27 21:59:00 - [52] 10/10 - rofl
Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.27 22:12:00 - [53] Dont forget without turret slots you cant fit mining lasers, that Ishtar you mentioned can mine and PvP at the same time.
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.06.28 01:49:00 - [54] Originally by: Rastigan Dont forget without turret slots you cant fit mining lasers, that Ishtar you mentioned can mine and PvP at the same time. While you find someone ratting why not make some extra isk from mining? Somebody set up us the bomb
Arkios Odymei Incarnation of Evil Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.06.28 02:13:00 - [55] Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 28/06/2008 02:14:17 Originally by: Elhina Novae Originally by: Rastigan Dont forget without turret slots you cant fit mining lasers, that Ishtar you mentioned can mine and PvP at the same time. While you find someone ratting why not make some extra isk from mining? Good point, turets are not only overpowered in combat, but they are ruining the in-game economy too! While you grief some one with nber-haxploit turret damage, you are still able to fit a few mining lasers and generate ISK at the same time. This means that a turret user is able to make ISK no mater what they are doing practicaly 23/7, and this is obviously leading the economy into inflation! ------------------------------------------------------------------
Celesphira	Posted - 2008.06.28 03:10:00 - [56] Alternatively, an Ishtar pilot can mount mining drones while using his overpowered turrets to destroy rats, thus making TWO incomes at the SAME TIME, and also being able to defeat any non-turret ship without needing to change his fittings. How are you supposed to compete with this? Turret ships cost a lot to fly, sure... But they never die and make twice as much money as other ships.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.06.28 03:13:00 - [57] Edited by: Tasko Pal on 28/06/2008 03:14:00 It's not that hard to come up with a counter to turrents. For example, here's a t2 fit ship I use to gank cruisers and larger in low sec. It also works well for ratting against angels who are often known to use turrents. Hulk: Hi: 3x small energy neutralizer II Med: 2x small capacitor booster II, tracking disruptor II, 1mn microwarpdrive II Low: 2x overdrive injector system II Riggings: 2x polycarbon engine housing I Drone Bay: 5x valkyrie II <--- don't leave these guys. you leave these guys you lose your DPS!!! cargo: <b>FULL</b> of cap boosters 75!!! Basically, you roam the places that turrent ships like to be, gates, stations, asteroid belts. Use the scanner and smack in local. Sometimes I can get one by asking for help while complaining that my ship doesn't have any turrents. (This works particularly well if you have a female avatar, and the other guy is a real guy not just an Eve guy.) The key thing to remember is that you got to close first. Hit the MWD, and start popping cap charges. Light him up with the tracking disruptor and neuts as you close the distance. Get in a tight orbit. With the tracking disruptor destroying the effectiveness of his weapons, you are almost set. The only two remaining problems are 1) he might have drones and 2) he might have smart bombs. For drones, sic your drones on his drones first to kill his residual dps. Sometimes in the confusion of fitting a ship, the turrent user will accidentally fit a smartbomb. They look like turrents at a glance and they "shoot" like one. This is especially true of the ships with more high slots than turrents. They often try putting turrents there until they get desperate and put whatever fits, hopefully it's a shield transfer module, but sometimes through sheer luck they fit smartbombs. You have to orbit just outside the smartbomb range and wait for them to cap out. Anyway, time is on your side. Turrent users are so overconfident, they'll fail to flee. They'll be pushing buttons and wondering why f1-f8 doesn't work. You have 5120 m3 of cap boosters. No matter what he's flying, (unless it's aan indy), he's going to run out of cap first. Your valkyrie will tear him apart a little bit at a time. Eventually his ship will pop and a pod will appear. Usually these are easier to kill since they don't have turrents. With this setup, I have been very successful, I often can kill two a day, even three (if I find one right after dt and get lucky in finding more of them). I haven't flown it in a gang, but I'm pretty sure a group of these guys would be unstoppable, killing those turrented quick..er..ly and spreading fear among the turrented ones. You will enjoy this setup and milking those turrent tears! PS, this doesn't work so well against Minmatar and their stupid projectile turrents. Nerf Minmatar!
Arazel Chainfire USC Militia	Posted - 2008.06.28 03:13:00 - [58] ... you sir... have made my day... i'll give it a 9/10 -Arazel Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
Karrade Krise	Posted - 2008.06.28 03:21:00 - [59] Originally by: Marcus Druallis BLAH BLAH BLAH. Oy... I'm sorry...but...You are either a troll...or, ur dum Sig locked, I will not make fun of the forum mods
Lady Aja Caldari No Angels Here	Posted - 2008.06.28 04:27:00 - [60] I thought april fools day has been and gone.
Lady Aja Caldari No Angels Here	Posted - 2008.06.28 04:39:00 - [61] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Ok, I know a few things about this game so I think that I could probably come up with really good ideas concerning games changes. So bear with me a tiny bit here. OP is a moron. fails to deliver suggested game change!
Saltrock	Posted - 2008.06.28 11:39:00 - [62] Missiles V Turrets A, Missiles ALWAYS hit. (unless target is 1, out of range, or 2 moving to fast) Missile TIP, In fleet situations where you find yourself in the wrong ship, shoot at the secondary target with your missile spam, by the time the primary is dead your missiles should be well in the post to the target. B, Turrets Don't always hit. if your a, out of range, or b, moving so fast the tracking can't keep up. So which is over powered you say?
Karrade Krise	Posted - 2008.06.28 13:23:00 - [63] Originally by: Saltrock Missiles V Turrets In fleet situations where you find yourself in the wrong ship, shoot at the secondary target with your missile spam, by the time the primary is dead your missiles should be well in the post to the target. :] Hence the reason missile boats should never fire on Primarys unless in real close range and should focus on secondaries and teritaries... Sig locked, I will not make fun of the forum mods
Nocturnal Avenger Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.28 15:08:00 - [64] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Ok, I know a few things about this game so I think that I could probably come up with really good ideas concerning games changes. So bear with me a tiny bit here. ffs - use a goon alt next time
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.28 15:11:00 - [65] Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger Originally by: Marcus Druallis Ok, I know a few things about this game so I think that I could probably come up with really good ideas concerning games changes. So bear with me a tiny bit here. ffs - use a goon alt next time Why should he use an alt? He should be commended, after all he is an experienced player in a big alliance, and even he is willing to admit that the griefer's favorite tool, turrets, need to get nerfed. Sounds like someone doesn't want their gank toy removed.
Borg9	Posted - 2008.06.28 15:32:00 - [66] I think their pretty balanced imho. The only thing I would change is that speed(nano) fit ships can't outrun missiles.
Borg9	Posted - 2008.06.28 15:36:00 - [67] Originally by: Windorian I seriously hope that you are joking. Since there has been ships, there have been weapons on ships. Space ships would be no different. If you fly it, you need to be able to protect it. Eve is based on an extension of humanity, originating on earth. The first weapons (aside from melee style, but a bit hard in space) were projectiles. The most common and effective weapons to date, are projectiles. Guided weaponry is more sophisticated, but is still fairly new (to us). In the distant future of eve, i assume, each culture would have begun just like we did, which is why they all use a variation of projectile weapons. Even caldari, the missile kings, have decent ships with hybrid weapons. Certainly, there are other things that could go in the high slots, but for certain ships, it just doesn't suit it's purpose. You wouldn't put a baby-seat on a jet-pack. So why build a ship for combat, and not use it's full firepower potential? Similarly, other ships are built this way as well. Missile boats get plenty of missile bays on the ships that need them. As far as your comments on the navy mega, come on. Your mentioning a ship that the NAVY took and modified to be more powerful in combat ( and more pricey) and then complaining that it's too good at doing exactly what it was designed for. Please keep this thread RP-free. Thank you.
Gaelenus Gallente Federal Guard and Recon Corporation	Posted - 2008.06.28 15:55:00 - [68] you know you are very right, how is my mining lazer does no damage? thats not balanced at all i think ccp should look at the damage stats for mining lazers again they need a clear boost and would help balance out the turret issue..... what am i supposed to do if the roids start shooting mback with the damage stats set sa they are! seriously though i hope your joking...
Killer Kelly Allied Tactical Unit Scalar Federation	Posted - 2008.06.28 16:02:00 - [69] Turrets aren't overpowered. Missiles are underpowered. ___________ I Get Money in the Scalar Federation
Arkios Odymei Incarnation of Evil Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.06.28 16:58:00 - [70] Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 28/06/2008 16:59:55 Originally by: Gaelenus you know you are very right, how is my mining lazer does no damage? thats not balanced at all i think ccp should look at the damage stats for mining lazers again they need a clear boost and would help balance out the turret issue..... what am i supposed to do if the roids start shooting mback with the damage stats set sa they are! seriously though i hope your joking... I hope you are kidding. A ship with a lot of turret slots already has a huge advantage as it is able to fit plenty of combat turrets and use up a slot or two for mining lasers as well (as described in my last post). If you change it so mining lasers do damage in combat too, then that is a boost to turret slots that are already over powered! Currently, You are able to do omgwtf damage in PvP while still making ISK mining, but in your scenario, you will ba able to do omgwtfBBQ damage while mining A LOT MORE ISK!!!Turrets need a nerf, not a boost...
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.28 17:03:00 - [71] Rockets and HAMS need a slight dps boost. Other then that all is good.
Gjs312 A Murder of Crows.	Posted - 2008.06.28 18:26:00 - [72] Originally by: Arkios Odymei Originally by: Tasko Pal Edited by: Tasko Pal on 28/06/2008 03:14:00 It's not that hard to come up with a counter to turrents. For example, here's a t2 fit ship I use to gank cruisers and larger in low sec. It also works well for ratting against angels who are often known to use turrents. Hulk: Whoa whoa whoa... A Hulk? Have you looked at the training requirements for that ship lately? I shouldnt have to train MONTHES AND MONTHS to fly a SPECIFICLY SPECIALIZED ship in order to counter turret ships! This porves even more that they are way overpowered as this is the best way to counter them... Ok, that was the best one so far .
Vladimir Ilych Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.06.28 18:47:00 - [73] Troll post is obvious.
Borg9	Posted - 2008.06.28 19:00:00 - [74] The one thing I have a hard time with is figuring out "true" dps with missiles. So if I'm at 1m from target then its launcher rate x missile damage? Also what if i'm at 100km, How do I calculate the flight time?
Carth Reynolds	Posted - 2008.06.28 19:13:00 - [75] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Rockets and HAMS need a slight dps boost. Other then that all is good. I'm not concerned with DPS, especially from HAMS (~600 DPS from 20km in a Drake is not what I'd call underpowered). I would like to see a reasonable explosion velocity out of one of the two though. As it stands if a nano ship moves faster than 3k/s I simply cannot hit them for damage with a medium class missile. And 3k/s is an easily attainable speed on most nano ships.
Slade Hoo Amarr	Posted - 2008.06.28 19:49:00 - [76] missiles and turrets are overpowered. boost tractorbeams!
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.06.28 19:54:00 - [77] Why tractors? Mining Lasz0rz should be able too do damage! This way they have another use exept for simply mining. Somebody set up us the bomb
Arkios Odymei Incarnation of Evil Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.06.28 20:11:00 - [78] Originally by: Elhina Novae Why tractors? Mining Lasz0rz should be able too do damage! This way they have another use exept for simply mining. Ehemm. Originally by: Arkios Odymei Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 28/06/2008 16:59:55 I hope you are kidding. A ship with a lot of turret slots already has a huge advantage as it is able to fit plenty of combat turrets and use up a slot or two for mining lasers as well (as described in my last post). If you change it so mining lasers do damage in combat too, then that is a boost to turret slots that are already over powered! Currently, You are able to do omgwtf damage in PvP while still making ISK mining, but in your scenario, you will be able to do omgwtfBBQ damage while mining A LOT MORE ISK!!!Turrets need a nerf, not a boost... ------------------------------------------------------------------
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.06.28 20:48:00 - [79] This thread is stupid. Not because it's a troll, but because the point it's trying to make is ridiculous. Something can't be overused when nearly every ship in the game is designed to do it. DPS / Tank will never and can never be "overused". Now if people started flying industrial ships into combat fitted with rails (commonly, that is) then we'd have a story. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Wannabehero Caldari Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2008.06.28 21:22:00 - [80] OP You forgot that mining lasers are turrets! They take a turret slot and destroy asteroids faster than anything else in the game! (Except strip miners). They can be fitted to almost any ship in the game, but some ships are better at killing asteroids than others using their turrets. This is clearly overpowered. Please have this included in your rebalancing on turrets. -- Don't harsh my mellow
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2008.06.28 22:21:00 - [81] Originally by: Haakelen Armageddon - BEST TRACKING IN THE GAME It amuses me to no end that people still believe this to be true.
Haakelen Gallente Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.28 22:32:00 - [82] Edited by: Haakelen on 28/06/2008 22:35:52 Originally by: Anubis Xian Originally by: Haakelen Armageddon - BEST TRACKING IN THE GAME It amuses me to no end that people still believe this to be true. I read something that could be interpreted to almost mean that in an OFFICIAL CCP DEV BLOG which was only like a year and a half old, so it must be correct and entirely relevant to this situation right now.
Rah MunRi	Posted - 2008.06.29 00:49:00 - [83] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Windorian As far as your comments on the navy mega, come on. Your mentioning a ship that the NAVY took and modified to be more powerful in combat ( and more pricey) and then complaining that it's too good at doing exactly what it was designed for. Just because you spend more doesn't mean your ship should be better!!! Show a tech 1 counter for the navy mega or it's overpowered Yes but I don't care how much isk you spend, it still should not be overpowered. I shouldn't have to switch to a different ship type to combat your setup because I have already decided on what I want to fly. Now you tell me because you can spend and risk alot of isk that I have to adapt. I PAY to play this game. I picked MY way to play it, it should work my way! Lets go back to the whole joke part. we all pay to play so because you dont like turrets the ones of us who do should scale down cause it dont fit your way of play. and if it cost more it should be better. want better stuff pay more for it. want crap pay little how it works. so because I buy the best for my ship I should be the same as a person who buys crap. because I outfit my ship for max abbility I should be the same as a person who fits odds and ends and dont match up. You need to rethink things IMO.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.06.29 02:16:00 - [84] Originally by: Arkios Odymei Originally by: Tasko Pal Edited by: Tasko Pal on 28/06/2008 03:14:00 It's not that hard to come up with a counter to turrents. For example, here's a t2 fit ship I use to gank cruisers and larger in low sec. It also works well for ratting against angels who are often known to use turrents. Hulk: Whoa whoa whoa... A Hulk? Have you looked at the training requirements for that ship lately? I shouldnt have to train MONTHES AND MONTHS to fly a SPECIFICLY SPECIALIZED ship in order to counter turret ships! This porves even more that they are way overpowered as this is the best way to counter them... Oh come on. whining over only a few months of training? That's a new low for this place. And you can use these skills in pvp. For example, the other day I fitted a strip miner I in place of one of my neuts. I was orbiting a thorax in a belt and mining five (!) nearby veld roids. Then I went through some scordite and kernite. Just a few of the awesome things you can do with a pvp hulk. Look it just doesn't take that much training and these skills really help in pvp. You don't need many level 5 skills to fly the hulk, astrogeology, mining barges, industry. And a few level 4's, mining, science, and spaceship command. You probably have most of these already and don't realize it. I suppose you're still going to whine about how that gets in the way of your plans to pick up Margin Trading or something. The only question you have to ask yourself: "Do I want to PWN turrent ships?" If the answer is yes, well there you go. In fact, you kind of need this high skill barrier otherwise everyone would be flying these things. I want to keep them below the CCP radar to avoid anti-air nerf missiles, if you know what I mean.
Arkios Odymei Incarnation of Evil Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.06.29 02:58:00 - [85] Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 29/06/2008 03:05:23 Originally by: Tasko Pal Oh come on. whining over only a few months of training? That's a new low for this place. And you can use these skills in pvp. For example, the other day I fitted a strip miner I in place of one of my neuts. I was orbiting a thorax in a belt and mining five (!) nearby veld roids. Then I went through some scordite and kernite. Just a few of the awesome things you can do with a pvp hulk. Look it just doesn't take that much training and these skills really help in pvp. You don't need many level 5 skills to fly the hulk, astrogeology, mining barges, industry. And a few level 4's, mining, science, and spaceship command. You probably have most of these already and don't realize it. I suppose you're still going to whine about how that gets in the way of your plans to pick up Margin Trading or something. The only question you have to ask yourself: "Do I want to PWN turrent ships?" If the answer is yes, well there you go. In fact, you kind of need this high skill barrier otherwise everyone would be flying these things. I want to keep them below the CCP radar to avoid anti-air nerf missiles, if you know what I mean. You still dont get it. I SHOULDNT HAVE TO TRAIN FOR SOMETHING THAT I DONT WANT TO! How can you not understand this!?!? My goal is to specialize in a normal balanced missile ship, like a drake or caracal. This is what I want to do, and this is how I want to play. I pay $15 a month to play this game, and I'll be damned if someone if going to try and tell me how I should play it! Its not my fault that all of these turret ships practicaly laugh at the damage from my FOF heavy missiles as they nearly insta-gank me. CCP needs to realize this and nerf turrets into balance. Its so much damage its rediculous. Even with a ship renown for its strong shield tank such as a drake, my medium shield booster couldnt keep up with the damage... even with shield rechargers fitted! I even tried fitting an armor rep and a hull rep too, hoping I can stay alive long enough to take them down... I could barely get past their shields, if that. Its so stupid, whats the point of having a tank on a ship if some turret user can just come along with their overpowered damage and rip through it as if it werent even there?
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2008.06.29 03:36:00 - [86] Originally by: Haakelen Edited by: Haakelen on 28/06/2008 22:35:52 Originally by: Anubis Xian Originally by: Haakelen Armageddon - BEST TRACKING IN THE GAME It amuses me to no end that people still believe this to be true. I read something that could be interpreted to almost mean that in an OFFICIAL CCP DEV BLOG which was only like a year and a half old, so it must be correct and entirely relevant to this situation right now. What are you getting at? Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Aesynil Caldari The Unit...	Posted - 2008.06.29 03:48:00 - [87] Originally by: Haakelen yes i agree look at this insantiy Megathron - 7 TURRETS 900 DPS Armageddon - 7 turrets 800 DPS BEST TRACKING IN THE GAME Rokh - 8 Turrets 1000 DPS with a tank bonus, not overpowered? yeah right Most the gangs that field these ships have tacklers and ships with webs and call primaries so add another 200 DPS. Even if they remove DAMAGE MODULES these ships will still be imbalanced. What we really need is more ECM, remove damage modules, and add a major stacking penality to all turrets and level 5 skills. Turrets weren't designed to do primary damage they were designed to fit mining lasers. It doesn't matter if missiles are boosted, turrest are the new active WCS. Imbalanced is when there are ships that don't need to use missiles, do large wrecking hits, and never die because they can keep shooting like cowards at any time. If they don't shoot missiles them how do you kill them? Training for a turret ship is not the asnwer. TBH, I stopped reading here. Completely nonsensical, phrased in such a certain way. It's like, you know it's total BS, and it's obvious it's BS, but he sounds so certain, by the end of the post, you're nodding and rerolling missiles! Got a lol out of me :)
Hanzo Starr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.29 04:16:00 - [88] Originally by: Wet Ferret This thread is stupid. Not because it's a troll, but because the point it's trying to make is ridiculous. Something can't be overused when nearly every ship in the game is designed to do it. DPS / Tank will never and can never be "overused". Now if people started flying industrial ships into combat fitted with rails (commonly, that is) then we'd have a story. So you identify the troll and then argue with it? I'm not sure you understand how this works.
Ekrid	Posted - 2008.06.29 05:54:00 - [89] rohk, paper, scissors, (see what I did there?). If someone flies an expensive T2 or faction ship, they get 0 insurance on it. if you are smart, and you bring just two people with you in T1 ships, both of you ECM, weapon disrupt, energy neut, warp jam, and web that expensive ship. Now its doing 0, count 0 DPS, while you're pounding it to hell and back. Expensive loss for one side. Never underestimate the damage potential of a bunch of (smart, EW using and well thinking) newbs in T1 ships. in the FW where only level 1 ships are allowed (destroyers and frigates), ECM and weapon disruptors fitted with the optimal mod eat destroyers alive, due to their lack of a damage bonus, and their 25% penalty ROF. then you nerf their class specific bonuses back to frigate status, and they become simple a frigate that tanks damage, and does low DPS. play smarter not harder imo
Ekrid	Posted - 2008.06.29 05:56:00 - [90] Originally by: Saltrock Missiles V Turrets A, Missiles ALWAYS hit. (unless target is 1, out of range, or 2 moving to fast) Missile TIP, In fleet situations where you find yourself in the wrong ship, shoot at the secondary target with your missile spam, by the time the primary is dead your missiles should be well in the post to the target. B, Turrets Don't always hit. if your a, out of range, or b, moving so fast the tracking can't keep up. So which is over powered you say? I like my small gang tactic of having half missile users use something that shields are weak too, i.e. thermal and EM, while the other half use the best vs armor, explosive and kinetic. one group fires on the primary until the shields are gone, then moves to the secondary, while the armor raping group finishes the primary off quickly. rinse, repeat. most efficient way to kill off enemy ships.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.06.29 08:31:00 - [91] Originally by: Arkios Odymei Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 29/06/2008 03:05:23 My goal is to specialize in a normal balanced missile ship, like a drake or caracal. This is what I want to do, and this is how I want to play. I pay $15 a month to play this game, and I'll be damned if someone if going to try and tell me how I should play it! Its not my fault that all of these turret ships practicaly laugh at the damage from my FOF heavy missiles as they nearly insta-gank me. CCP needs to realize this and nerf turrets into balance. Its so much damage its rediculous. Even with a ship renown for its strong shield tank such as a drake, my medium shield booster couldnt keep up with the damage... even with shield rechargers fitted! I even tried fitting an armor rep and a hull rep too, hoping I can stay alive long enough to take them down... I could barely get past their shields, if that. Its so stupid, whats the point of having a tank on a ship if some turret user can just come along with their overpowered damage and rip through it as if it werent even there? I don't know what you'd even do with a missile ship. Aren't those things for mining or something?
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.06.29 09:19:00 - [92] Originally by: Tasko Pal Originally by: Arkios Odymei Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 29/06/2008 03:05:23 My goal is to specialize in a normal balanced missile ship, like a drake or caracal. This is what I want to do, and this is how I want to play. I pay $15 a month to play this game, and I'll be damned if someone if going to try and tell me how I should play it! Its not my fault that all of these turret ships practicaly laugh at the damage from my FOF heavy missiles as they nearly insta-gank me. CCP needs to realize this and nerf turrets into balance. Its so much damage its rediculous. Even with a ship renown for its strong shield tank such as a drake, my medium shield booster couldnt keep up with the damage... even with shield rechargers fitted! I even tried fitting an armor rep and a hull rep too, hoping I can stay alive long enough to take them down... I could barely get past their shields, if that. Its so stupid, whats the point of having a tank on a ship if some turret user can just come along with their overpowered damage and rip through it as if it werent even there? I don't know what you'd even do with a missile ship. Aren't those things for mining or something? For the billionth time DPS is not the issue with missiles. It's their inability to effectively engage fast targets (at cruiser sized launchers and larger) and thier dubious utility in larger scale combat. HAM armed drakes can put out a surprising amount of gank (600 or so DPS) and HML and Cruise armed caldari ships tend to be able to sling higher amounts of pain further than their peers (this is offset by the fact that in the extreme exampe of cruise missiles even a double plated trimarked battleship can warp out before your missiles hit at 249km.)
Jane Sylari Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.29 10:20:00 - [93] Narf overpowdered turrents! Naw!
sh4rp ov3rvolt Hikage Corporation Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.06.29 10:47:00 - [94] Originally by: Haakelen Show a tech 1 counter for the navy mega or it's overpowered Gallente racial, strenght rigged, dobule signalamp Blackbird?
Ekrid	Posted - 2008.06.29 11:22:00 - [95] Edited by: Ekrid on 29/06/2008 11:22:00 Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Tasko Pal Originally by: Arkios Odymei Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 29/06/2008 03:05:23 My goal is to specialize in a normal balanced missile ship, like a drake or caracal. This is what I want to do, and this is how I want to play. I pay $15 a month to play this game, and I'll be damned if someone if going to try and tell me how I should play it! Its not my fault that all of these turret ships practicaly laugh at the damage from my FOF heavy missiles as they nearly insta-gank me. CCP needs to realize this and nerf turrets into balance. Its so much damage its rediculous. Even with a ship renown for its strong shield tank such as a drake, my medium shield booster couldnt keep up with the damage... even with shield rechargers fitted! I even tried fitting an armor rep and a hull rep too, hoping I can stay alive long enough to take them down... I could barely get past their shields, if that. Its so stupid, whats the point of having a tank on a ship if some turret user can just come along with their overpowered damage and rip through it as if it werent even there? I don't know what you'd even do with a missile ship. Aren't those things for mining or something? For the billionth time DPS is not the issue with missiles. It's their inability to effectively engage fast targets (at cruiser sized launchers and larger) and thier dubious utility in larger scale combat. HAM armed drakes can put out a surprising amount of gank (600 or so DPS) and HML and Cruise armed caldari ships tend to be able to sling higher amounts of pain further than their peers (this is offset by the fact that in the extreme exampe of cruise missiles even a double plated trimarked battleship can warp out before your missiles hit at 249km.) the reason is that ships were never intended to go as fast as they currently can. There is a dev blog floating around somewhere on this site which states that they wanted tactical gaming, not twitch gaming, and nanophags are akin to the latter. They are going to nerf nanos in the near future, and only frigates were originally designed to avoid much damage from a cruiser sized missile by going fast. Frigates are designed to speed tank larger ships, and armor/shield tank other frigates. However, frigates speed tank very poorly atm, because of all these skills and modules that allow cruiser guns to easily hit any frigate stupid enough not to nano up and MWD. I have a feeling this will change too, along with the nano nerf. even HACs can outrun the fastest missiles in the game. That does't make sense at all. just wait for the nerf to give missiles back their deadliness.
La Mila Steel Battalion Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.06.29 11:24:00 - [96] sad topic, stopped reading @ top of page 2, noob missile boat got killed by turret boat while playing with himself in low sec, let's all scream NERF so he can continue to play with himself in low sec. sigh
Ekrid	Posted - 2008.06.29 11:55:00 - [97] Originally by: La Mila sad topic, stopped reading @ top of page 2, noob missile boat got killed by turret boat while playing with himself in low sec, let's all scream NERF so he can continue to play with himself in low sec. sigh He's right about the part that CCP designed missile systems which are more or less ineffective during this current nano trend. we'll all be praying that ends soon amirite?
Herateis	Posted - 2008.06.29 12:00:00 - [98] Originally by: Killer Kelly Turrets aren't overpowered. Missiles are underpowered. QFT. Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Rockets and HAMS need a slight dps boost. Other then that all is good. nothing to do with power, but with the speed problem. Lets put it this way. if nanos are kept in the game, then all missiles will have to be buffed in both travel velocity and explosion velocity, and I mean by a LOT. This turns frigates into 100% damage targets with 0 mitigation, unlike what they were originally supposed to be. the smaller faster ship not taking much damage from an oversized weapon. It will force perma nano and MWD on frigates in order to mitigate damage, thus turning those into the only viable combat setups. That means frigs will no longer be using setups like damage mods or tank mods, because they will need to rely on speed 100%. You might see how the system has broken down because of the huge amount of speed modules and implants, with a complete lack of stacking nerfing.
Kai Jyokoroi The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.06.29 14:38:00 - [99] Succesful troll is extremely succesful Idiot posters are absolute idiots (especially Derek)
Amezyarak	Posted - 2008.06.29 14:42:00 - [100] Originally by: La Mila sad topic, stopped reading @ top of page 2, noob missile boat got killed by turret boat while playing with himself in low sec, let's all scream NERF so he can continue to play with himself in low sec. sigh +1
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.06.29 16:42:00 - [101] Originally by: Kai Jyokoroi Succesful troll is extremely succesful Idiot posters are absolute idiots (especially Derek) Heretais bit pretty hard too.
Blind Jhon Amarr Alenia psy departement	Posted - 2008.06.29 17:32:00 - [102] Edited by: Blind Jhon on 29/06/2008 17:35:44 ....the only weapon i miss ineve is smartbomb.... i'd love to have a dedicate ship <3 explosions..... anyways i think the fact missile "never" miss, balance enought the turret's more dps but i think rokets and heavy assault need some boost your 650mmII autocannon perfectly turn of wreking your untanked minmatar ship
OldMan Time Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.06.29 17:33:00 - [103] As a person who lives under a bridge and won't let people cross unless they correctly answer my riddles, I fully endorse this thread.
Arkios Odymei Incarnation of Evil Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.06.29 17:39:00 - [104] Originally by: Ekrid Edited by: Ekrid on 29/06/2008 11:22:00 Originally by: Derek Sigres For the billionth time DPS is not the issue with missiles. It's their inability to effectively engage fast targets (at cruiser sized launchers and larger) and thier dubious utility in larger scale combat. HAM armed drakes can put out a surprising amount of gank (600 or so DPS) and HML and Cruise armed caldari ships tend to be able to sling higher amounts of pain further than their peers (this is offset by the fact that in the extreme exampe of cruise missiles even a double plated trimarked battleship can warp out before your missiles hit at 249km.) the reason is that ships were never intended to go as fast as they currently can. There is a dev blog floating around somewhere on this site which states that they wanted tactical gaming, not twitch gaming, and nanophags are akin to the latter. They are going to nerf nanos in the near future, and only frigates were originally designed to avoid much damage from a cruiser sized missile by going fast. Frigates are designed to speed tank larger ships, and armor/shield tank other frigates. However, frigates speed tank very poorly atm, because of all these skills and modules that allow cruiser guns to easily hit any frigate stupid enough not to nano up and MWD. I have a feeling this will change too, along with the nano nerf. even HACs can outrun the fastest missiles in the game. That does't make sense at all. just wait for the nerf to give missiles back their deadliness. WTH are you guys going on about? Stop trying to de-rail this thread with your nonsense. This thread is about overpowered gunboats and the fact that any other type of ship is unable to compete with their dps. I dont care that someone told you that at one time, somewhere on the internets a dev might have said something about something... It has nothing to do with the fact that turrents are overpowered! Stay on topic please, and dont troll this thread.
Suvliana Minmatar Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.06.29 18:49:00 - [105] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Windorian As far as your comments on the navy mega, come on. Your mentioning a ship that the NAVY took and modified to be more powerful in combat ( and more pricey) and then complaining that it's too good at doing exactly what it was designed for. Just because you spend more doesn't mean your ship should be better!!! Show a tech 1 counter for the navy mega or it's overpowered Yes but I don't care how much isk you spend, it still should not be overpowered. I shouldn't have to switch to a different ship type to combat your setup because I have already decided on what I want to fly. Now you tell me because you can spend and risk alot of isk that I have to adapt. I PAY to play this game. I picked MY way to play it, it should work my way! Your pulling our chain right? You want everyone ***** person in EVE to play the game so you win all the time cause you pay for it???? I own 3 accounts. I pay for this game too as well as the other subscribers. All the real men and women in here understand its a game, and you play it. I don't whine about nanoships or turrets and how they are overpowered. I understand that I play my way, Jim plays his way and if we fight its me vs him. And maybe my blob and his blob. Welcome to EVE Online - Where the kids and the men are seperated by who has balls and who *es and whines cause they want to have everyone play their way. So STFU, grow a pair and play EVE. Or go back to WOW, Age of Conan, or whatever *** game you came from. Sincerely, Suvliana
Borg9	Posted - 2008.06.29 19:56:00 - [106] Originally by: sh4rp ov3rvolt Originally by: Haakelen Show a tech 1 counter for the navy mega or it's overpowered Gallente racial, strenght rigged, dobule signalamp Blackbird? U=fail drones would 2 volley bb.
Lokius Ahgamemnon	Posted - 2008.06.29 22:53:00 - [107] The counter to turret ships you say? I believe ecm does a fine job at that. It's a little thing called turret disruptors.... use ur damn brain and stop whineing, nothing is broken but the user... adapt to survive, don't adapt thats cool too just be prepared for me to be hanging your corpse in my hangar!
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.06.30 01:36:00 - [108] Edited by: Franga on 30/06/2008 01:37:18 I think the last 2 pages of posters have missed the point of his post. I'm quite sure if you read his post carefully (please note it's very hard to see) you'll find it's written with a 'tongue in cheek' attitude and intent. And some sarcasm. About 20 barrels of sarcasm.
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.06.30 01:41:00 - [109] Originally by: Arkios Odymei You still dont get it. I SHOULDNT HAVE TO TRAIN FOR SOMETHING THAT I DONT WANT TO! How can you not understand this!?!? My goal is to specialize in a normal balanced missile ship, like a drake or caracal. This is what I want to do, and this is how I want to play. I pay $15 a month to play this game, and I'll be damned if someone if going to try and tell me how I should play it! Its not my fault that all of these turret ships practicaly laugh at the damage from my FOF heavy missiles as they nearly insta-gank me. CCP needs to realize this and nerf turrets into balance. Its so much damage its rediculous. Even with a ship renown for its strong shield tank such as a drake, my medium shield booster couldnt keep up with the damage... even with shield rechargers fitted! I even tried fitting an armor rep and a hull rep too, hoping I can stay alive long enough to take them down... I could barely get past their shields, if that. Its so stupid, whats the point of having a tank on a ship if some turret user can just come along with their overpowered damage and rip through it as if it werent even there? Awesome. Just awesome. Srsly. I loled.
Malakai Fleur Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.06.30 03:15:00 - [110] i can't believe you guys missed teh most improtant part. FRACTION TURRENTS. All you have to do is get one of the overpowered turrent ships and put the even more overpowered fraction turrents on it and you cant even stop them. this one time my friend was fighting a ammar omen that had 2 caldari navy railguns, 2 i think sasha lasers and i think a rocket launcher in his drake and he didnt even last like more than 2 minutes. Oh! and the guys had aclyte drones, nopt even mining drones! i think fraction turrents should be a lot weaker.
Imaos	Posted - 2008.06.30 07:10:00 - [111] Originally by: Malakai Fleur i can't believe you guys missed teh most improtant part. FRACTION TURRENTS. All you have to do is get one of the overpowered turrent ships and put the even more overpowered fraction turrents on it and you cant even stop them. this one time my friend was fighting a ammar omen that had 2 caldari navy railguns, 2 i think sasha lasers and i think a rocket launcher in his drake and he didnt even last like more than 2 minutes. Oh! and the guys had aclyte drones, nopt even mining drones! i think fraction turrents should be a lot weaker. Even better. Wait for the new named t2: FRACTAL TURRENTS. Does fractal damage and is pretty, too. It is the new fifth damage type and no one will have resists (the exception being ships requiring concord frigate/cruiser/battleship skill or jovian frigate/cruiser/battleship). As opposed to fraction guns which just let you fit more than one gun to every slot (For example the 1/2 Fraction Serpentis Guns which need both hybrid and projectile skills to work and you can fit 2 per turret hardpoint) the fractal guns make sure you always have some odd number of turret hardpoints left (.523587345 turret hardpoints par example) and so are balanced as everyone will try to use up all available gun hardpoints. Imaos ------------------------------------------ Originally by: NoNah My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari.
Kano Sekor Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.06.30 07:16:00 - [112] Torrents are overpowered in my oppinion they: 1. Distribute data over the internets really fast 2. Dont contribute to server load 3. Dont count as illegal as they only link to the illegal data 4. Has free clients. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imaos	Posted - 2008.06.30 07:23:00 - [113] Serious: Turrets vs Missiles is fine. Disassembling the latest Friday rant thread: 3 of 4 races uses turrets: Yep and there are also 3 different lines of turrets to train for. Still most use the turret line the missile race uses, too. Turrets vs Utility: Turrets kill PERIOD. Utility help kill. So utility is clear overpowered as you need only 1 or 2 to get the best performance. Navy Megathron Insane Damage: Torp Raven does also formidable damage and at longer range. Missiles are easier to use. You don't need to watch range and transversal as close as turret users. Close range missiles do enough damage to compete. Long range missiles can hit close by targets, too, which the low damage long range turrets can't hit due to transversal. There is also more EWAR to effect turrets than missiles. This thread so much sounds like: I can get more damage on minmatar bs with lasers than projectiles. Projectiles suck. To bad you run out of cap with lasers. Imaos ------------------------------------------ Originally by: NoNah My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari.
Lakche	Posted - 2008.06.30 07:40:00 - [114] 1. The real problem with turrents is that it's a win-draw situation. Imagine this. A group of Ravens on a gate, and an invading fleet of turrent using Megas. Now if the Megas decide to jump in, they can shoot the Ravens at different ranges; if it's farther, then turrets receive a better tracking bonus, and if it's closer than turrents are firing in their already overpowered optimal ranges for ridiculous damage. Tracking disruptors basically don't work, because turrents can dictate firing. The Megas can just warp out if they're outnumbered, or (if they have mining turrents) get veldspar in a nearby belt. Therefor there's no risk involved, because in the worst case scenario the turrent ships get their isk back in valuable tritanium. Really, the only counter is more turrents. 2. What I propose is modifying turret disruptors to actually do their job, based on different signature radiuses. There will be a frigeta sized disrutpor, a cruisre sized one, and a battelship sized. The first will fire at a longer range, but (depending on signature radius) seriously hamper tracking and optimal ranges, and falloff too, and the bigger ones do the more at less range of course, and so on. Basically, if a turrent ship uses low slot mods to improve their cheap weapons, it actually doesn't equate to any bonus because the tracking disruptors are chance based depending on the target's tracking speed. I did alot of math in EFT, so you can basically just trust me that it doesn't actually matter. 3. Anyways, the real problem is sovereignty mechanics in 0.0 space. What I'm talking about is blobs. Since so many people just blob, or hot drop a carrier with like 90 - with 500 fighters anywhere, the only counter is more turrents. I think Jade Constantine would back me up in saying that implementing destructable POS will ensure that turrent abuse drops to almost nothing. (Also note that someone can AFK mine all day long in local, and this basically makes everyone in that channel blind, because they don't know if he's going active or not, so noone can use local, and they can't use probes to find him because he mined all the trit.)
Pushtan Ministry of Destruction Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.30 10:05:00 - [115] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Haakelen Originally by: Windorian I PAY to play this game. I picked MY way to play it, it should work my way! AHAHAHHAAAA!!! I pay too, can i have a Thanatos (carrier) with 100 drones now? I WANT THE GAME TO CHANGE FOR ME !!!!! /toysouttathepram
Unreal5 Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2008.06.30 10:50:00 - [116] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Ok, I know a few things about this game so I think that I could probably come up with really good ideas concerning games changes. So bear with me a tiny bit here. Turrets have become far too common on ships in EVE today, and it's obvious why. They are clearly overpowered. I mean, think about it. 3 of the 4 races use turrets instead of missiles (but you see alot of missile users out there too, so they must be badly balanced as well). Sniper fleet BS use turrets. So many powerful ships use turrets (EVEN TITANS!). But CCP doesn't do anything about it. There are so many other things to fit in high slots, which include neuts, nos, salvagers, cloaks, mining turrets. No one fits these, because there are much better (read overpowered) modules to fit into highs: turrets. The Navy Megathron does INSANE amount of DPS with their turrets. Clearly this is in need of a change due to their complete dominance of high slot usage. Please CCP, this game was not meant to be full of turrets and you should step in to take care of this horrible problem. THank you. NO U
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2008.06.30 10:57:00 - [117] i can't belive we have 4 pages of people debating a joke thread
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2008.06.30 11:15:00 - [118] Originally by: Gawain Hill i can't belive we have 4 pages of people debating a joke thread And I refuse to believe its not butter. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
H Lecter	Posted - 2008.06.30 12:05:00 - [119] Reading this thread made my eyes bleed. Please stop this nonsense and lock it... BTW - Missiles are overpowered and need to be nerfed, using a Torp Raven with damage mods is the 'I win' button, blablabla, yaddayaddayadda
Lamonadetomare	Posted - 2008.06.30 12:41:00 - [120] boost tractor beam so i can tractor nanoship inside my web range
Karanth Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.06.30 15:25:00 - [121] Am I in time to register for the newsletter? BTW, proof that turrents are overpowered? Battle-Badger.
Arkios Odymei Incarnation of Evil Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.06.30 17:20:00 - [122] Originally by: Karanth BTW, proof that turrents are overpowered? Battle-Badger. QFT. As a matter of fact, there is no industrial ship in the game (neither T1 nor T2) that has ANY launcher slots (or dornes for that matter). How balanced it that? If you compare the DPS of a turret fit battle badger to a missile (or drone) fit battle badger, you will see that the turret ship does roughly ∞ times more damage than the other ship's 0 dps! INFINITY TIMES THE DAMAGE FFS!!! Well look at that, yet another entire line of ships that excludes and punished a dedicated missile trained player for their play style, requiring them to have to train turrets in order to compete. More proof that turrets are over powered.
Shinta Kobi Minmatar	Posted - 2008.06.30 19:59:00 - [123] As long as you don't include arty(beaten horse) turrets.
Ambrosious Martin Son of Man	Posted - 2008.06.30 20:56:00 - [124] Even more fail is this thread the the OP had intended... Turrets are definatelly overpowered, I think all turrets hardpoints and missle hardpoints(becuase with no turret ships to counter the passive drake it will be Overpowered) should be removed from all ships. Let the miners figure out how to mine without turrets, let the missle chuckers figure out how to blow ** up with no missles, and let the turret users sit in there **, they have gotten more love than anyone in this game... GO DRONES GO!!! NERF CARRIERS!! NERF MYRM!!! NERF ISHTAR!!! NERF GALLANTE,NERF,NERF,NERF. Buff ewar!
Tempest Fugit	Posted - 2008.06.30 22:05:00 - [125] I dont think gubns are over power as you think simply a missile speecalist can achieve 600 dps with a minimal amount of training time as to opposed to a gun specalist who has to spend more time training to achieve that 1000 dps
Haakelen Gallente Genesis Rising	Posted - 2008.06.30 22:10:00 - [126] Originally by: Tempest Fugit I dont think gubns are over power as you think simply a missile speecalist can achieve 600 dps with a minimal amount of training time as to opposed to a gun specalist who has to spend more time training to achieve that 1000 dps Just because something takes a while to train for doesn't mean it should be good. Among other reasons, it is unfair to newer players.
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.06.30 22:47:00 - [127] Originally by: H Lecter Reading this thread made my eyes bleed. Please stop this nonsense and lock it... BTW - Missiles are overpowered and need to be nerfed, using a Torp Raven with damage mods is the 'I win' button, blablabla, yaddayaddayadda Please refrain from trolling this very important and serious discussion, kind sir.
Lakche	Posted - 2008.07.02 05:12:00 - [128] It doesn't matter how many times I have to say it, it's still true; fix blobbing, and gun balance will fall in check.
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.07.02 10:50:00 - [129] Turrets suck until you have reasonably high skills & I would not want to spend the next 3 months training for tec2 & get a rack of peashooters.
Baudolino Gallente Sky Net Industries Pure.	Posted - 2008.07.02 11:11:00 - [130] Signed.. The recent turretfaggotry is ruining the game- mega with turrets will ALWAYS slaughter a mega not using them. I don`T care that it takes isk and skill to own and use them effectively- there`s just way too many of them. CCP needs to restrict the use of turrets. Same goes for missiles.. It`s almost impossible to compete with people using them. END turretfaggotry now..
NeoTheo Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.07.02 14:52:00 - [131] Originally by: Baudolino Edited by: Baudolino on 02/07/2008 11:20:57 Signed.. The recent turretfaggotry is ruining the game- mega with turrets will ALWAYS slaughter a mega not using them. I don`T care that it takes isk and skill to own and use them effectively- there`s just way too many of them. CCP needs to restrict the use of turrets. Same goes for missiles.. It`s almost impossible to compete with people using them. END turretfaggotry now.. EDIT: I want to ad that when i started playing EVE-online in 2003 there were hardly any turret ships flying around - now they`re everywhere. I rest my case Mega with turret bonuses being better than if you fit a unbonused weapon SHOCKING NEWS! :) i see what you did there. Neotheo Dark Materials Linkage
Jallem Sims Minmatar Quantum Warriors	Posted - 2008.07.02 16:29:00 - [132] Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger Originally by: Marcus Druallis Ok, I know a few things about this game so I think that I could probably come up with really good ideas concerning games changes. So bear with me a tiny bit here. ffs - use a goon alt next time i shall promtly beat with wet fish till he fits turrets on all his caldari scraps! nothing wrong with turrets, nothing to see here.... we pwns with missiles too. just don't go too fast you nanorag!! oh, he flys a taranis! <--- see how its done marcus, i'm posting with my alt

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