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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Shar'Tuk TheHated
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Posted - 2008.07.07 18:22:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Shar''Tuk TheHated on 07/07/2008 18:29:35
I support this idea, with some work this idea could work out nicely. To all you idiots that say there are counters already. There is nothing wrong with having more counters and having a ship for each race to fit that role would help or would you all rather have the nano ships nerfed into oblivion? Maybe more counters would cut down on the Nano rage while still making them a viable salution. Plus a Black Hurricane sounds rad! Maybe the myrm can get a bonus to drone mwd speed and tracking along with its tanking bonus and drone damage/hitpoints. Now that I think about it the drake would need some type of bonus to help the missiles hit fast targets, Maybe a explosion radius bonus and precision bonus along with a missile velocity and its tanking bonus. Flame on!
*Edit* added drake idea
DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale!
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES! |
Wannabehero
Caldari
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2008.07.07 18:24:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Ralara
Originally by: Wannabehero
Paper just doesn't beat scissors... unless scissors' client crashes.
... And that's why no nano ship has ever been killed before.
Because, you know, nano-ships are invincible. They cannot be killed by any means. It's not possible
Paper just doesn't beat scissors reliably... unless scissors' client crashes.
Fixed for the ambiguity. Didn't mean for it to sound that nano-ships are unbeatable except by specific setups, just meant for it to state that if you want to more effectively counter nano-ships you need to adjust your setup and tactics.
Nano-ships are by no means invincible.
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Don't harsh my mellow |
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2008.07.07 18:35:00 -
[63]
Moved to Features & Ideas.
Mitnal
Community Representative
CCP Games, EVE Online
Email / Netfang |
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.07 18:36:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Ralara
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Ralara
And when you go solo up against a carrier, do you think it's unfair that you can't kill it?
What about a sniping BS that's 200km away from you, is that unfair?
What about a Falcon or Rook that jams you, is that unfair?
All these ships can be approached and fought, in any ship, even if you will lose.
Nanoships cannot be approached except by their counter ships.
So?
You can approach that Falcon all you want, but you'll never lock it.
You can approach that Rapier all you want but at 10 m/s it'll take you a very long time :p
You can approach the dreadnought all you want but you wont break it's tank...
So this is the difference between a one sided fight and a fight you can't even take part in. Every one of those ships loses their advantages if I bring more ships that they can lock. Against nanos, most ships can't even take part, so a fleet of non-counter ships are useless against them.
And as for bringing a counter, if we are going to have pure counter gameplay, we may as well replace nanos with a paper lowslot module, which makes them fully invincible to everything except a scissors module. Why even bother with the pretence of an actual fight?
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DesuSigs |
Shar'Tuk TheHated
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Posted - 2008.07.07 18:49:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Shar''Tuk TheHated on 07/07/2008 18:54:09
Originally by: Fangedterror
Yes sir scorp I do agree with you. Somthing needs to be done but, i do disagree with your idea with flak. Insted i think an interdictor class vessal that shoots a status webafication bubble. Clever eh? The distroyer would shoot a missle or something that would approch the target then explode putting a 20 km bubble around the target and his gangmates. This would slow nanos down long enough for some of them to be webbed by conventioal webbers and stuff. :)
This is a fantastic idea as well, I would feel bad for the guy driving one of these as he wont have a ship very long but this would not only help break up Nano fleets but would also help combat the blob. Who the heck wants to be caught in a web bubble when someone screams TITAN! *shudders*
*Edit* Only problem with this salution, I think it would more then likely only be a 0.0 counter. I doubt CCP would let you use them in low sec and empire just the same as bombs/bubbles.
DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale!
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES! |
Flamewave
Crimson Moon Society
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Posted - 2008.07.07 18:52:00 -
[66]
Forget nanos, I just want the flak guns. 
__________
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Kilostream
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.07 18:54:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Tamia Clant
Originally by: Maceross
ok then, a specialized NON RACE SPECIFIC ship. Smart arse.
What's wrong with training for minmatar? Every race has its strengths and weaknesses, why should every race have an uber nano counter?
QFT - the nano-moaners beggar belief when counters already exist.
The other thing is, if for some reason you don't want to train minmatar, then you don't have to - you just need to make sure that part of your support fleet consists of huginn or rapier to provide anti-nano support in the same way you make sure part of your support fleet consists of falcon or rook to provide ECM capability.
If you're flying around with a half-assed support fleet why are you surprised when you get half-assed results?
On a side note, I went out in a certain big, slow Amarr ship the other day that may have had it's ship bonuses adjusted recently.
I won't go into specific detail, but I was ab-so-lutely spannering unwebbed hostile support ships at ranges of over 100km with short-range guns - so believe me, huginns and rapiers are not the only anti-nano tools out there (they're just very good ones! :p)
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Shar'Tuk TheHated
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Posted - 2008.07.07 18:59:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Kilostream
Originally by: Tamia Clant
Originally by: Maceross
ok then, a specialized NON RACE SPECIFIC ship. Smart arse.
What's wrong with training for minmatar? Every race has its strengths and weaknesses, why should every race have an uber nano counter?
QFT - the nano-moaners beggar belief when counters already exist.
The other thing is, if for some reason you don't want to train minmatar, then you don't have to - you just need to make sure that part of your support fleet consists of huginn or rapier to provide anti-nano support in the same way you make sure part of your support fleet consists of falcon or rook to provide ECM capability.
If you're flying around with a half-assed support fleet why are you surprised when you get half-assed results?
On a side note, I went out in a certain big, slow Amarr ship the other day that may have had it's ship bonuses adjusted recently.
I won't go into specific detail, but I was ab-so-lutely spannering unwebbed hostile support ships at ranges of over 100km with short-range guns - so believe me, huginns and rapiers are not the only anti-nano tools out there (they're just very good ones! :p)
About time the Apoc is useful again! 
DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale!
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES! |
Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.07.07 20:42:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Combat in EVE?
if (Player1.HasNanoShip && !Player2.HasCounterShip) {
Player1.Invincible=true;
}
I herd its liek this.
/me heard same.
BTW, calm down cause nanos are getting nerfed, and thats a fact.
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Sir Scorpion
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Posted - 2008.07.08 08:21:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Ekrid
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Combat in EVE?
if (Player1.HasNanoShip && !Player2.HasCounterShip) {
Player1.Invincible=true;
}
I herd its liek this.
thats whats this post is trying to do, help fix it without the uber nerf.
/me heard same.
BTW, calm down cause nanos are getting nerfed, and thats a fact.
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Zarch AlDain
Hematite Rose
Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.08 14:56:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Wannabehero
Caldari = ECM and Missile boats with velocity bonuses and Explosion Velocity Rigs
Gallente = Dampeners and Drone boats with lots of Drone Nav Comps
Minmatar = Recons and EAF Hyena, Racial EW (painting and webbing) is perfect for fighting Nanos
Amarr = Racial EW kinda helps with Nanos (tracking disruption), Curse with Heavy Neut, Pulse lasers
There ya go, that is all you need to know. Just don't be a tard and expect to beat nano ships with a non-antinano setup. It is rock, paper, scissors. Paper just doesn't beat scissors... unless scissors' client crashes.
Work out the explosion velocity on those Caldari ships you just suggested sometime.
Zarch AlDain
----
My corp is recruiting. See the recruitment thread here.
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Wieselflinke
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Posted - 2008.07.08 18:21:00 -
[72]
Originally by: justsometrader
- "unidentified entity ahead"
- "on the screen"
- "what is it sir ?"
- "well it looks...it looks like...FAIL !"
Brrrr, your nerd-humor makes me cringe.
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Maus Bailey
International House of PWNCakes
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.07.08 18:24:00 -
[73]
Quote:
I just want the flak guns.
I thought this is what artillery cannons were when I first started playing. Was sad to find out they were just slower firing rail guns with shite tracking.
lol alpha strike. |
CTec
Wasting Time Specialists
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Posted - 2008.07.09 14:22:00 -
[74]
Would the Flak gun be a non faction device? Amarr being an energy based weapons user would have been left out otherwise. The ROF would have to be high to be useful. Also I would suggest the ammo be a constant on the damage but have range differences. WWII flak guns had fuses that were user set. Gun crews found range, did a little math and set fuses for that range. We could have set ranges 20km, 40km, etc and collisions would always cause damage. Damage type would have to be set so as to not have 300 different round types in Flak. I personally would like to see explosive/kinetic for area detonations and added thermal if a collision hit occurs.
Just my 2 cents.
Nothing Clever to Say. |
Wannabehero
Caldari
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2008.07.10 21:38:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Zarch AlDain
Originally by: Wannabehero
Caldari = ECM and Missile boats with velocity bonuses and Explosion Velocity Rigs
Gallente = Dampeners and Drone boats with lots of Drone Nav Comps
Minmatar = Recons and EAF Hyena, Racial EW (painting and webbing) is perfect for fighting Nanos
Amarr = Racial EW kinda helps with Nanos (tracking disruption), Curse with Heavy Neut, Pulse lasers
There ya go, that is all you need to know. Just don't be a tard and expect to beat nano ships with a non-antinano setup. It is rock, paper, scissors. Paper just doesn't beat scissors... unless scissors' client crashes.
Work out the explosion velocity on those Caldari ships you just suggested sometime.
For a Caracal or Cerb launching precision lights with 2x Warhead Flares it comes out to 5850 m/s with an explosion falloff of 1500 m/s (50% damage at 7350 m/s). DPS is wanting (~200 for the Cerb, 150 for the Caracal) from light missiles but a nano-ship will bug-out after a short while. Not the best solution but it is a viable option.
The Hawk can also achieve similar results for precision lights, but in general the Caracal performs way better than the Hawk and at a third of the price.
A precision light launching crow does sad sad lolDPS but will also be able to hit nano'ed targets for reliable, if laughable, DPS. It will also be a fat, easy to hit target.
The flycatcher can also do about 130 DPS to high-speed targets with precision lights, but will be dead far to soon to actually be a threat.
You get the idea. Here's a list of faction cruisers that can field precision lights in a manner that they cannot be ignored by nano-ships.
Navy Caracal (~180 DPS)
Navy Osprey (~130 DPS)
Gila (lol) (~120 DPS)
All other missiles are crap for hitting nano-speed targets (>3kms) but we all know that already.
--
Don't harsh my mellow |
Maglietto
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Posted - 2008.07.10 21:49:00 -
[76]
crappy tread. nano live!
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Typhado3
Minmatar
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.10 23:15:00 -
[77]
Combat in EVE?
if (Player1.HasECMship && !Player2.HasECCM) {
Player1.Invincible=true;
}
or like this.
a scorpion with 600 mil equipment, max skills, command bonus and a implants could easily hold off a few enemies and both nano's and ecm have counters (eccm, neuts vs neuts, webs). where nano's can run away scorpian make it impossible for you to target their friends either.
As for the original idea, the best way to implement the idea would be similar to the gas damaging clouds in gas cloud harvesting or mercoxit mining.... If it was to be done I'd make it affect friendly units as well and make it based on sig radius.
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