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Sir Scorpion	Posted - 2008.07.07 12:27:00 - [31] Originally by: flashfreaking /me points to post 22 So, all your friends are Amarr? A counter doesn't mean you have to be able to instapop em, making it impossible for them to pop you is good enough for me most of the time imo... its not suppose to insta pop as a said a small damage, and as i said needs balance, and as I said will not Nerf nanos, but will balance them this will be a T2 battle cruiser not cheep, right? Its just something that will make you ôand meö think twice before picking up on a Non-Nano gang. Add a siege model to it if it will balance it out. LetÆs say without flak battery model active it will do medium damage to normal ships, while with siege mode it will do small damage to fast ships non to normal ships. Simple works for all.
Ralara Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2008.07.07 12:50:00 - [32] Edited by: Ralara on 07/07/2008 12:50:05 Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: flashfreaking There you go... Just use the ships you were given, and find a way to use them... Just to point out this will only make them run away, just like ECM and large amounts of drakes. If you want to kill nano then your going to have to go nano yourself, get a huggin/rapier or a titan to DDD the area. Or heavy neuts / Nos, or highly skilled Warrior IIs or fan our your gang to cover a much larger area or get command ships that give bonus to web range.... --
Khanto Thor Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.07.07 12:59:00 - [33] Just give me Nano Missiles and I'll be happy These guided missiles will not do so much damage to slow ships, because of the large speed differential. But they will do a lot of damage to a fast moving ship, due to the smaller speed differential.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.07 13:00:00 - [34] Originally by: Ralara Edited by: Ralara on 07/07/2008 12:50:05 Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: flashfreaking There you go... Just use the ships you were given, and find a way to use them... Just to point out this will only make them run away, just like ECM and large amounts of drakes. If you want to kill nano then your going to have to go nano yourself, get a huggin/rapier or a titan to DDD the area. Or heavy neuts / Nos, or highly skilled Warrior IIs or fan our your gang to cover a much larger area or get command ships that give bonus to web range.... I was talking about going solo. As it stands my nos/neut geddon has engaged lots of nanos and killed none of them.
RayBanJockey	Posted - 2008.07.07 13:05:00 - [35] I think the OP has a point... not about the flak obviously that's just ridic, but somehow have a gun/ammo/missile that does more damage to fast targets and less to slow ones - just concoct some sci-fi eve tech explanation like they did for the rest of the game.
Plumpy McPudding	Posted - 2008.07.07 13:10:00 - [36] Originally by: RayBanJockey I think the OP has a point... not about the flak obviously that's just ridic, but somehow have a gun/ammo/missile that does more damage to fast targets and less to slow ones - just concoct some sci-fi eve tech explanation like they did for the rest of the game. How on Earth do you see!?! __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.
Guillight BLue Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.07 13:15:00 - [37] Edited by: Guillight BLue on 07/07/2008 13:16:07 Edited by: Guillight BLue on 07/07/2008 13:15:49 Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: flashfreaking There you go... Just use the ships you were given, and find a way to use them... Just to point out this will only make them run away, just like ECM and large amounts of drakes. If you want to kill nano then your going to have to go nano yourself, get a huggin/rapier or a titan to DDD the area. LMAO! This made me actually laugh. Indeed guys, just go train skills for more then a year and farm a a couple billion ISK and get yourself a Titan ^^ All those pirate players are flying Nano's these days. One more reason to stay in HighSec space until you are able to fly one yourself or be able to participate in a PVP fleet. Other than that, LowSec is guarantee suicide if you have less than a dozen million SP trained and able to fly T2 stuff.
Duran	Posted - 2008.07.07 13:25:00 - [38] Edited by: Duran on 07/07/2008 13:25:46 Originally by: Guillight BLue Edited by: Guillight BLue on 07/07/2008 13:15:49 farm a a couple billion ISK and get yourself a Titan ^^ lol spot the obvious mistake
Guillight BLue Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.07 13:29:00 - [39] Originally by: Duran Edited by: Duran on 07/07/2008 13:25:46 Originally by: Guillight BLue Edited by: Guillight BLue on 07/07/2008 13:15:49 farm a a couple billion ISK and get yourself a Titan ^^ lol spot the obvious mistake Or the sarcasm maybe ;)
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Celestial Apocalypse The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.07 13:37:00 - [40] Originally by: Vladimir Griftin What's wrong with training for minmatar? Every race has its strengths and weaknesses, why should every race have an uber nano counter? We're all Minmatar, we just don't know it yet. 6 months time I can see my overview now.. Vagabond Vagabond Rapier Rapier Huginn Vagabond Vagabond Vagabond Rapier Rapier Vagabond Vagabond Huginn Vagabond Vagabond Vagabond Oh wait.. You left out a Falcon for worry-free carrier ganking "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Duran	Posted - 2008.07.07 13:47:00 - [41] Originally by: Guillight BLue Originally by: Duran Edited by: Duran on 07/07/2008 13:25:46 Originally by: Guillight BLue Edited by: Guillight BLue on 07/07/2008 13:15:49 farm a a couple billion ISK and get yourself a Titan ^^ lol spot the obvious mistake Or the sarcasm maybe ;) attempting to disguise ignorance as intention only makes you look silly, boys and girls
Fangedterror Caldari The Devils Brigade The Threshold	Posted - 2008.07.07 14:05:00 - [42] Yes sir scorp I do agree with you. Somthing needs to be done but, i do disagree with your idea with flak. Insted i think an interdictor class vessal that shoots a status webafication bubble. Clever eh? The distroyer would shoot a missle or something that would approch the target then explode putting a 20 km bubble around the target and his gangmates. This would slow nanos down long enough for some of them to be webbed by conventioal webbers and stuff. :) Need some Help with EVE? -Guides -Ship Setups -People Singing for their ships -Eve Time Cards -and MORE!!!! www.eve-onlineguides.com
Ralara Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2008.07.07 14:07:00 - [43] Edited by: Ralara on 07/07/2008 14:09:55 Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Ralara Edited by: Ralara on 07/07/2008 12:50:05 Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: flashfreaking There you go... Just use the ships you were given, and find a way to use them... Just to point out this will only make them run away, just like ECM and large amounts of drakes. If you want to kill nano then your going to have to go nano yourself, get a huggin/rapier or a titan to DDD the area. Or heavy neuts / Nos, or highly skilled Warrior IIs or fan our your gang to cover a much larger area or get command ships that give bonus to web range.... I was talking about going solo. As it stands my nos/neut geddon has engaged lots of nanos and killed none of them. I see. And when you go solo up against a carrier, do you think it's unfair that you can't kill it? What about a sniping BS that's 200km away from you, is that unfair? What about a Falcon or Rook that jams you, is that unfair? If you're basing your whine on nanos because you can't kill one solo ... wow. Just wow. You people have got to learn, not every ship can kill every other ship. Frigates can't usually kill Cruisers, Cruisers can't usually kill battleships, a single ship cannot kill a carrier or dreadnought... Tech 1 frigs can't kill HACs, tech 1 cruisers can't kill battleships* etc. * assuming good piloting skills for both ships. Obviously a thorax will kill an armor tanked laser firing Scorpion etc. If you're *****ing because you can't kill a ship that's faster than you, solo, well, tough. That's the point - you're not MEANT to be able to kill them solo, really. If you're that hell bent on it, go fit an officer web on a rapier and get a 208km 80% webber range. --
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.07.07 14:52:00 - [44] Originally by: Sir Scorpion Now since Nano ships are expensive, usually T2 and skill intensive, the counter should be the same to be fair. I like the whole nano game and feel it should be embraced, refined, and expanded upon by the dev team, but this argument is BS. Nothing else in the game follows this logic and if the only way to counter something is with similar numbers of something equally specialized and expensive, then it's not at all balanced. For example, it doesn't take a cruiser to kill a cruiser and it doesn't take a supercap to kill a titan.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.07 14:53:00 - [45] Originally by: Ralara Edited by: Ralara on 07/07/2008 14:09:55 Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Ralara Edited by: Ralara on 07/07/2008 12:50:05 Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: flashfreaking There you go... Just use the ships you were given, and find a way to use them... Just to point out this will only make them run away, just like ECM and large amounts of drakes. If you want to kill nano then your going to have to go nano yourself, get a huggin/rapier or a titan to DDD the area. Or heavy neuts / Nos, or highly skilled Warrior IIs or fan our your gang to cover a much larger area or get command ships that give bonus to web range.... I was talking about going solo. As it stands my nos/neut geddon has engaged lots of nanos and killed none of them. I see. And when you go solo up against a carrier, do you think it's unfair that you can't kill it? What about a sniping BS that's 200km away from you, is that unfair? What about a Falcon or Rook that jams you, is that unfair? If you're basing your whine on nanos because you can't kill one solo ... wow. Just wow. You people have got to learn, not every ship can kill every other ship. Frigates can't usually kill Cruisers, Cruisers can't usually kill battleships, a single ship cannot kill a carrier or dreadnought... Tech 1 frigs can't kill HACs, tech 1 cruisers can't kill battleships* etc. * assuming good piloting skills for both ships. Obviously a thorax will kill an armor tanked laser firing Scorpion etc. If you're *****ing because you can't kill a ship that's faster than you, solo, well, tough. That's the point - you're not MEANT to be able to kill them solo, really. If you're that hell bent on it, go fit an officer web on a rapier and get a 208km 80% webber range. You arnt doing the pro nano lobby any favors by sating your not ment to kill nano ships solo... Incidently, why shouldnt my Battleship be able to kill an untanked assault cruiser? I am much larger, sport a better tank and have more powerfull weapons. Most of which are held to be one of the best ways to deal with a nano ship (heavy nos/neuts). Give me a t2 battleship with a web range bonus that extends a domination web out to 30km with max skills and I would be very happy. No nerfs needed.
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.07.07 15:01:00 - [46] Originally by: Siberys Well, lets just ask for small guns that deal a moderate amount of damage for their class but have very high tracking speed. You still won't perfectly hit an inty go 11k/second, but then again nothing will. I think every race in game has at least one ship able to hit perfectly well a 11km/s inty orbiting in disruptor range. -- Coming to you, Assault Ships fix, by the people saying that the Gallente Recons are fine.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.07.07 15:05:00 - [47] Originally by: Ralara And when you go solo up against a carrier, do you think it's unfair that you can't kill it? What about a sniping BS that's 200km away from you, is that unfair? What about a Falcon or Rook that jams you, is that unfair? All these ships can be approached and fought, in any ship, even if you will lose. Nanoships cannot be approached except by their counter ships. - DesuSigs
Teimur Leng	Posted - 2008.07.07 15:06:00 - [48] All Nano ships have a counter. Fly a curse :)
Lun Coldwell	Posted - 2008.07.07 15:11:00 - [49] Some sort of balanced flak guns or ships even sounds like an interesting idea. Low to medium AoE damage to counter nano-ships to some degree. The guns/cannons wouldn't even need to have higher tracking speed but could fire at a semi-random location to cover and area with flak projectiles. Another option could be a more manual approach, the user sets the distance and direction from ship to start firing (covering) into, eventually a nano-ship circling would fly into this flak-covered area if the player judges it correctly and the nano-pilot fails to respond quickly/correctly enough. This from a pilot who flies fast ships.
Van Steiza Eternal Perseverance	Posted - 2008.07.07 15:58:00 - [50] I fly a hurricane with 220 IIs and barrage I have 23km fall of any nanoship or ceptor that tries to tackle me either has to run or die because I can track them with there mwd on or off. You guys need to realise you dont need to be specialised to be effective >_> I also have a huginn and rapier but im pointing out that you don tneed to use just specialised ships. Average nano goes 3.5 to 4kms newai . Its when you get snakes that stack with polies that it becomes ridiculous maybe that should be looked at otherwise I think nanoships are just fine take them away and eve will be bland. ----------------------------------------------- Stop removing my Sig its fine!!!! Nerf Moderaters.
Arvald Caldari Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.07 16:17:00 - [51] Originally by: Tamia Clant Originally by: Maceross ok then, a specialized NON RACE SPECIFIC ship. Smart arse. What's wrong with training for minmatar? Every race has its strengths and weaknesses, why should every race have an uber nano counter? actually every race does have a nano counter caldar = ecm minmatar = webs gallente = damps :not so much as they used to be though) amarr = armor plates so thick that even jesus has trouble bringing them down.......oh and tracking disruptors and neuts (though heavy neuts are good for all bs) Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw Stealthbomber combat (or as i like to call it: Just because you *are* paranoid don't mean there isnt a invisible demon about to eat your face)
Corduroy Rab Xenocidal Uprising	Posted - 2008.07.07 16:29:00 - [52] Not gunna touch the nano part of this with a 10-foot pole. In a sense could you say that a form of flak is already in game in the form of bombs? I know it isnt exactly what the op had in mind but you just send the bomb off and it hits everything w/in x distance from it. I know bombs arn't targeted like the OP's idea but they do seem to work in a similar manner where their damage amount is based on sig radius (correct me if I'm wrong), so they hit an mwding ship alot harder than one not mwding. Anyways, nano/anti-nano people continue flaming eachother I always like watching a good bar fight.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.07.07 16:35:00 - [53] Originally by: Gonada what he means is there ARE counters to nano fleets, in fact if you got off that couch and search these forums you would find it. I'm tired of hearing this argument. Tactics to counter speed tanks and nowhere in-line with tactics to counter shield tanks and/or armor tanks. Tactics are not part of the solution with the problem of nanos. Put 12 straight fit cruisers from every race attacking a shield/armor tank and then put those same twelve on a speed tank, and tell me who has a much greater advantage. Nanos ftw. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.
Wannabehero Caldari Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2008.07.07 16:44:00 - [54] Caldari = ECM and Missile boats with velocity bonuses and Explosion Velocity Rigs Gallente = Dampeners and Drone boats with lots of Drone Nav Comps Minmatar = Recons and EAF Hyena, Racial EW (painting and webbing) is perfect for fighting Nanos Amarr = Racial EW kinda helps with Nanos (tracking disruption), Curse with Heavy Neut, Pulse lasers There ya go, that is all you need to know. Just don't be a tard and expect to beat nano ships with a non-antinano setup. It is rock, paper, scissors. Paper just doesn't beat scissors... unless scissors' client crashes. -- Don't harsh my mellow
Ralara Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2008.07.07 16:52:00 - [55] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Ralara And when you go solo up against a carrier, do you think it's unfair that you can't kill it? What about a sniping BS that's 200km away from you, is that unfair? What about a Falcon or Rook that jams you, is that unfair? All these ships can be approached and fought, in any ship, even if you will lose. Nanoships cannot be approached except by their counter ships. So? You can approach that Falcon all you want, but you'll never lock it. You can approach that Rapier all you want but at 10 m/s it'll take you a very long time :p You can approach the dreadnought all you want but you wont break it's tank... All of those ships, normally, require either a lot of thought or a small gang (2 or 3 people sometimes) to kill them. Same for nano ships. There's plenty of ways to kill them but you just don't try, you whinge instead. What is so difficult about putting a Rapier or two in your gang? Unless it's a nano-blob they will keep away from you. If they're stupid enough to engage, you can lock at least 4 of them down easily enough at 50km ranges... --
Ralara Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2008.07.07 16:54:00 - [56] Originally by: Wannabehero Paper just doesn't beat scissors... unless scissors' client crashes. ... And that's why no nano ship has ever been killed before. Because, you know, nano-ships are invincible. They cannot be killed by any means. It's not possible --
Arvald Caldari Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.07 16:56:00 - [57] wana have some real nano killing fun? get a rapier, falcon, arzu, curse and passived ferox (for bait) together and just play the waiting game Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw Stealthbomber combat (or as i like to call it: Just because you *are* paranoid don't mean there isnt a invisible demon about to eat your face)
Maceross Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.07.07 17:02:00 - [58] Originally by: Pithecanthropus I'm tired of hearing this argument. Tactics to counter speed tanks and nowhere in-line with tactics to counter shield tanks and/or armor tanks. Tactics are not part of the solution with the problem of nanos. Put 12 straight fit cruisers from every race attacking a shield/armor tank and then put those same twelve on a speed tank, and tell me who has a much greater advantage. Nanos ftw. This is exactly the correct point.
Cambarus RillaCorp Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.07.07 17:33:00 - [59] Originally by: Maceross Originally by: Pithecanthropus I'm tired of hearing this argument. Tactics to counter speed tanks and nowhere in-line with tactics to counter shield tanks and/or armor tanks. Tactics are not part of the solution with the problem of nanos. Put 12 straight fit cruisers from every race attacking a shield/armor tank and then put those same twelve on a speed tank, and tell me who has a much greater advantage. Nanos ftw. This is exactly the correct point. It's actually not... The easiest way to counter nanos is just different from the easiest way to counter heavy tanks (aside from training a similar type of ship). Is it really fair to say that nanos are broken because using numbers alone won't work? Not when using ewar alone won't kill a heavy tank. Put a handful of recons up against a well tanked BS (billion isk+ tank) and see what happens. The result will be the same as if you put a handful of cruisers against a nanoship. Before the age of nanowhines people always complained about blobs. There's no way to compete with bigger numbers! They cried. Then came the discovery of nanoships. All of a sudden, it was possible to fight without needing to make sure you had more guys then the opposition. It became viable to pvp in small gangs. This greatly irritated the less-then-average players, who had become comfy in their larger fleets and did not want to bother to train counters to this new threat. If they had better tanks and more dps, why should their opponent stand a chance? Also it's worth noting that 12 cruisers against a carrier or dread tank (which is in line with the high end nanos in terms of cost) won't accomplish anything except dying a horrible death. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.07.07 18:02:00 - [60] Originally by: Cambarus Is it really fair to say that nanos are broken because using numbers alone won't work? Not when using ewar alone won't kill a heavy tank. When you compare DPS to tanks... speed tanks rule. Numbers are not the issue, its the damage. Quote: Put a handful of recons up against a well tanked BS (billion isk+ tank) and see what happens. The result will be the same as if you put a handful of cruisers against a nanoship. don't know what you mean here, but unless you play a different game, a handful of recons can easily kill a well tanked BS. Quote: Before the age of nanowhines people always complained about blobs. There's no way to compete with bigger numbers! They cried. Then came the discovery of nanoships. All of a sudden, it was possible to fight without needing to make sure you had more guys then the opposition. It became viable to pvp in small gangs. This greatly irritated the less-then-average players, who had become comfy in their larger fleets and did not want to bother to train counters to this new threat. If they had better tanks and more dps, why should their opponent stand a chance? what you say is pointless. the issue now is about nano fleets having every advantage on their side. Big numbers give you an advantage if you can form big numbers. Nano's give you an advantage just cuz you can fly the ship. There's a difference between a fleet formed and an imbalanced ship. Quote: Also it's worth noting that 12 cruisers against a carrier or dread tank (which is in line with the high end nanos in terms of cost) won't accomplish anything except dying a horrible death. cost? what does cost have to do with anything? Zero factor. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.

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