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CSM Minutes finally posted - Suicide Ganking = Medium/High Priority

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Plumpy McPudding	Posted - 2008.07.10 14:39:00 - [1] Edited by: Plumpy McPudding on 10/07/2008 14:42:10 Please head on over and look at everything because these changes concern all of us. Here "CCP realized that even though they do not plan to remove suicide ganking completely, today's suicide gank mechanics are too biased in the ganker's favor, and they have set up a task force to look into suicide ganking and crime and punishment in general. For the short term, they plan to increase the security hit for crime in high-sec space and make sure that all ship kills will be counted as kills, with the matching sec hit, for everyone that participated. CCP also considers influencing the sec hit penalty based on the security status of the victim. Mid term, the plans are to look into suicide ganking and the insurance payout, once they have made sure that new players are not impacted by this too much and have extra security in place so that accidents should not be punished. In the long term, they plan to have criminal records for players, with the appropriate consequences. Tradable killrights are also on the table, to let players deal with criminals instead of just CONCORD being responsible for security. Alex (CSM Bane Glorious) said that most suicide gankers already thought of ratting to regain security status as painful. Because a lot of suicide ganking occurs from NPC corporations, it was considered to move criminal offenders out of the NPC corporations into Pirate NPC corporations if they committed too many crimes. Eva (CSM Ankhesentapemkah) reacted to this that it could be standing based, like Factional Warfare, where a player would be ejected out of the militia if their standing with the faction became too low. Various people added to this that criminals could lose standing with the faction where they committed their crimes in addition to the security status hit. As for the bounty system, it was suggested that the bounty could be paid out in parts, with the amount being paid out at a moment depending on the damage inflicted on the criminal, so that a criminal could still have bounty remaining after the first time he was killed." __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.
Durzel Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.10 14:45:00 - [2] Originally by: Plumpy McPudding Alex (CSM Bane Glorious) said that most suicide gankers already thought of ratting to regain security status as painful. Unless they recycle their alts, which we all know is an exploit but it's also one which is to all intents and purposes impossible to prove outside CCPs direct pro-active involvement (not like suicide gank targets can petition saying "I think X is going to recycle their toon"). Jihadswarm also proves quite convincingly that having to rat to build up security status isn't a deterrent to career gankers.
Princess Jodi Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:13:00 - [3] Nice to see that this issue is being addressed, and with proper care about the causes and effects. The tradable kill rights concept is very good, and a long time comming. Bounty Hunters should be a viable profession. At present, its not very viable to only have kill rights if the person killed you first. I also like the idea of variable damages based on the victim's security status. Face it, if you were to gank a respected member of society you'll get more negative reaction than if you killed some scumbucket.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:20:00 - [4] Edited by: Ki An on 10/07/2008 15:23:09 Originally by: Princess Jodi Nice to see that this issue is being addressed, and with proper care about the causes and effects. The tradable kill rights concept is very good, and a long time comming. Bounty Hunters should be a viable profession. At present, its not very viable to only have kill rights if the person killed you first. I also like the idea of variable damages based on the victim's security status. Face it, if you were to gank a respected member of society you'll get more negative reaction than if you killed some scumbucket. So, this is CCP telling us that piracy is a less valid playstyle than endless mission running, and that mission runners, on top of high income, low risk and high standings, should be tougher to gank. GG. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Dantes Revenge	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:25:00 - [5] If a PVP element to ratting could also be implemented, maybe this would help. Rather than taking a sec hit for shooting at players with a sec rating <-0.1 in lowsec, this should be changed to give the attacking player a sec gain consistent with the ship kill. Your sec rating would then be repaired inversely proportional to the rating of the person whose ship you kill (whoever laid the final blow gets the sec repair not everyone in a large gang). Pods may receive an additional sec repair boost therefore podding is more beneficial. This would encourage more lowsec PVP in small gang and 1v1 encounters. It would also encourage bounty hunters who currently take a sec hit for shooting other players in lowsec even though the player they are hunting has a negative sec rating. The same mechanics as are currently in place should stand for initiaiting combat against positive sec players. Return fire is acceptable. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:32:00 - [6] Why not discuss it in the thread there, instead of here? You know, the place where the CSM and CCP are watching for meaningful replies, and where someone can actually voice their support (the little thumbs-up thing)? warp drive active \| nature vraie
Noelle Fay State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:33:00 - [7] don't nerf it. bigger sec hit maybe, but leave it at that. seriously, this is not hello kitty online. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The secret to success, whether it's women or money, is knowing when to quit. I oughta know: I'm divorced and broke.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:34:00 - [8] Originally by: Winterblink Why not discuss it in the thread there, instead of here? You know, the place where the CSM and CCP are watching for meaningful replies, and where someone can actually voice their support (the little thumbs-up thing)? Because there's no thumbs-down thing and that makes me outrageously outraged. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:37:00 - [9] Edited by: Tarminic on 10/07/2008 15:37:23 Shame about some of the marketing stuff that can't be implemented (limiting buy/sell orders by standing), that would have been really cool to be honest. Overall, encouraging stuff though. I'd be interested to see how much of these suggestions makes it into the next major release. Also, small freighter = epic win. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:41:00 - [10] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/07/2008 15:44:08 Tradable killrights would be a great idea if players didnt use their recyclable alts to do the suicides... Moving players from npc corps when they become criminals would be a great idea if players didnt use their recyclable alts to do the suicides... And so on. CCP: You just cant fight this as long as alts are easily replaced. --- Its dead, Jim.
Princess Jodi Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:41:00 - [11] Originally by: Ki An ... Some useless Pro-Piewrat drivel ... All you've stated is that you think the Piewrat style should rule over other playstyles. People wishing to leech off of others can easily take their playstyle to low-sec or 0.0 - oh, but wait: Someone might actually fight back there. Meanwhile, the CareBears have no where else to go but Empire. If the Piewrats insist on invading Empire space and have found a game mechanic that allows them Reward without any Risk then that game mechanic needs to be changed. Not eliminated, just adjusted so that Risk vs. Reward is properly balanced. Your argument is anologous to someone who says "I'm going to be a big-game hunter and help rid the world of these ferocious man-eating beasts!" Then they load up an Uzi and head to the Zoo.
Jenina Hawke Minmatar Core Domination Big Bang Quantum	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:42:00 - [12] Edited by: Jenina Hawke on 10/07/2008 15:43:35 Ehm.... sorry for butting in... but then, how about us poor faction mission runners? Because of such, I have a low sec status and negative (empire) faction status - so I am ok to gank? But even if I am Sanshas Little Darling, no Sansha rat will leave me alone in a belt or defend my cute ass on a gate. I want FW Sansha Navies to protect me too!!! * insert sarcastic whine and lots of cheese * Heh... I think all gankers should be given the same penalty, regardless of whom they attack. And I think all whiners - regardless of cheese status - should really just stop being such whorum warriors and take a few pvp classes. C'on, what's the big deal, it is just ISK! Jen *** No signature is good enough *** DGAF Newbie Guide
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:47:00 - [13] Originally by: Princess Jodi All you've stated is that you think the Piewrat style should rule over other playstyles. No, that's not what I stated. Maybe you should read it again. What I did state was confusion over the fact that high sec mission running - without a doubt the most risk-free and still fairly lucrative profession in Eve - should be boosted by making mission runners tougher to gank - ON TOP OF THEIR OTHER ADVANTAGES. Originally by: Princess Jodi People wishing to leech off of others can easily take their playstyle to low-sec or 0.0 - oh, but wait: Someone might actually fight back there. Why don't you take a wild stab in the dark as to why more and more pirates are moving their business to high sec? It's because that's where the money's at. I live in low sec, and I low low sec pvp, but in order to make isk I either have to go extort others in high sec or have a carebear alt. Originally by: Princess Jodi Meanwhile, the CareBears have no where else to go but Empire. Not true. I know for a fact that the northern parts of nul-sec is crawling with carebears. Originally by: Princess Jodi If the Piewrats insist on invading Empire space and have found a game mechanic that allows them Reward without any Risk then that game mechanic needs to be changed. Yes, I agree. Problem is, pirates haven't found any such game mechanic. The risk is still there, and the isk/h is still lower than running lvl 4's. Originally by: Princess Jodi Not eliminated, just adjusted so that Risk vs. Reward is properly balanced. If this was the plan, CCP should lower the consequences for suicide ganking. Originally by: Princess Jodi Your argument is anologous to someone who says "I'm going to be a big-game hunter and help rid the world of these ferocious man-eating beasts!" Then they load up an Uzi and head to the Zoo. That makes no sense at all. Never make anologies again. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:50:00 - [14] Edited by: DubanFP on 10/07/2008 15:51:07 Don't give into the vocal whiners CCP. Nobody would suicide gank without someone willing to fly in ships worth ganking. CSM is filled with people who want to change EVE, but lacks the people who are willing to admit some things just don't need change. It's a really biased system. If any of you guys are reading this please take what the CSM say with a grain of salt. _______________ CCP Atropos > I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Doc Extropy Gallente Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:51:00 - [15] Big agreements on the stuff! a) Dual training 4tw... so I can train, HAC 5 and occasionally plug in a second skill which will be trained as well? PLEASE DO THAT! I NEVER asked for a skillqueue of anything more than this, it's just to remove medium duration skills from the "omg annoying stuff blackbook". As soon as this is implemented, my list of skills will be cleaner than ever before. I'll think about the devs when I'll drink my Billard - beer this evening! b) Tradeable killrights? YES PLEASE! This would improve Eve a lot... I see a whole new way of gameplay arise, a lot more PVP and so much more fun. --- Summary: I like it. Good stuff. --- Skill queue now! Nerf skillpoint loss and half done skills! WE ARE PAYING CUSTOMERS AND DESERVE MAXIMUM COMFORT!
hedfunk Caldari Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:54:00 - [16] And the carebears win again? What a suprise.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:57:00 - [17] Originally by: hedfunk And the carebears win again? What a suprise. Wouldn't say so, brosef. A body of elected carebears have whined enough to get CCP to acknowledge that whiners whine. CCP has proposed a commitee to see if the whiners actually have a reason to whine, and this whine comitee will then pass a judgement on the validity of said whines. When all this is said and done, the CSM will no longer exist due to ripping each other's throats out when they meet up in Iceland. The whiners of Eve will no longer have an elected body to represent them, and while the whining on the forums will reach new peaks, we will still be taking stuff and causing carebears to cry. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
hedfunk Caldari Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:01:00 - [18] Edited by: hedfunk on 10/07/2008 16:02:08 Originally by: Ki An Originally by: hedfunk And the carebears win again? What a suprise. Wouldn't say so, brosef. A body of elected carebears have whined enough to get CCP to acknowledge that whiners whine. CCP has proposed a commitee to see if the whiners actually have a reason to whine, and this whine comitee will then pass a judgement on the validity of said whines. When all this is said and done, the CSM will no longer exist due to ripping each other's throats out when they meet up in Iceland. The whiners of Eve will no longer have an elected body to represent them, and while the whining on the forums will reach new peaks, we will still be taking stuff and causing carebears to cry. lol, good stuff. It just seems like if there's enough whines on the forum, they always give in. Forgetting the fact that most of the whiners have never been ganked or have ganked. It was the same for the privateers, Nos, ECM, nano BS'.... EDIT: Also, CCP like to overwield the nerfbat. I can see you being able to get perhaps 10kill in highsec before sec status goes down past -5
Doc Extropy Gallente Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:02:00 - [19] Originally by: hedfunk And the carebears win again? What a suprise. Hm, no... I am all for PVP and suicide ganking, but not without real consequences. Tradeable killrights WOULD provide REAL consequences such as killing the offender not in his cheap 500k frig but when he's flying his faction fitted CNR while doing missions. No one said you can't gank any longer. You just have to face the repercussions of your actions. --- Skill queue now! Nerf skillpoint loss and half done skills! WE ARE PAYING CUSTOMERS AND DESERVE MAXIMUM COMFORT!
hedfunk Caldari Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:04:00 - [20] Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: hedfunk And the carebears win again? What a suprise. Hm, no... I am all for PVP and suicide ganking, but not without real consequences. Tradeable killrights WOULD provide REAL consequences such as killing the offender not in his cheap 500k frig but when he's flying his faction fitted CNR while doing missions. No one said you can't gank any longer. You just have to face the repercussions of your actions. Don't get me wrong, tradable kill rights are fine by me, great idea imo. Insurance tweaking is ok too, aslong as it's just tweaking, not removing it altogether. The sec hit is what annoys me, as i can see CCP over nerfing it. e.g Privateer wars went from 200, down to 5 for the same price.
Chaos Breeze HellCorp Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:04:00 - [21] can we please change this game so i can make isk allday without being at computer? please i really need this money. ohh and can we get 6-10/10 complexes in highsec cause thoose bubbles are like mad to get trough and totally unfair... desolve lowsec space aswell cause thoose -10 guys dont need to play this game, and can we make it so that only i can pick up my loot and nothing gets destroyed, and can we make so that i cant be attacked .... im not a pvper and dont like being shot at, they dont even stop when i yell at them to stop. Can we introduce auto locking targets when your current ones are down, this will help greatly at not looking at the screen when im missoning ohh and can i get cov cloaks on all my ships, otherwise its just to unfair Seriously get a grip and change the things that actually needs changing
Esu Nahalas The Night Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:09:00 - [22] Originally by: Chaos Breeze can we please change this game so i can make isk allday without being at computer? please i really need this money. ohh and can we get 6-10/10 complexes in highsec cause thoose bubbles are like mad to get trough and totally unfair... desolve lowsec space aswell cause thoose -10 guys dont need to play this game, and can we make it so that only i can pick up my loot and nothing gets destroyed, and can we make so that i cant be attacked .... im not a pvper and dont like being shot at, they dont even stop when i yell at them to stop. Can we introduce auto locking targets when your current ones are down, this will help greatly at not looking at the screen when im missoning ohh and can i get cov cloaks on all my ships, otherwise its just to unfair Seriously get a grip and change the things that actually needs changing You know, if you plan on telling people to "get a grip" you should probably be less melodramatic about it.
Vim Spook Division	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:16:00 - [23] Tradeable killrights \o/ Wait! /me goes to see who can kill him and realizes he better be a good boy soon.
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:17:00 - [24] Originally by: Ki An When all this is said and done, the CSM will no longer exist due to ripping each other's throats out when they meet up in Iceland. The whiners of Eve will no longer have an elected body to represent them, and while the whining on the forums will reach new peaks, we will still be taking stuff and causing carebears to cry. You do realize that the CSM has already met in Iceland, correct? ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Khald Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:24:00 - [25] What I dont understand is why player pirates are treated diffrently than NPC pirates. I like the idea that if you pirate enough a state corporation will boot you for being a liability and a pirate corp picks you up. Then any player can shoot you anywhere. You are a pirate. You are outside the law so you no longer get protection.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:26:00 - [26] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Ki An When all this is said and done, the CSM will no longer exist due to ripping each other's throats out when they meet up in Iceland. The whiners of Eve will no longer have an elected body to represent them, and while the whining on the forums will reach new peaks, we will still be taking stuff and causing carebears to cry. You do realize that the CSM has already met in Iceland, correct? Are they still alive? Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:32:00 - [27] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Ki An When all this is said and done, the CSM will no longer exist due to ripping each other's throats out when they meet up in Iceland. The whiners of Eve will no longer have an elected body to represent them, and while the whining on the forums will reach new peaks, we will still be taking stuff and causing carebears to cry. You do realize that the CSM has already met in Iceland, correct? Are they still alive? Please join the Caldari Militia with your main's corp and I'll be happy to show you how much "a carbear" this CSM rep is Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:34:00 - [28] Originally by: Ki An Wouldn't say so, brosef. A body of elected carebears have whined enough to get CCP to acknowledge that whiners whine. CCP has proposed a commitee to see if the whiners actually have a reason to whine, and this whine comitee will then pass a judgement on the validity of said whines. When all this is said and done, the CSM will no longer exist due to ripping each other's throats out when they meet up in Iceland. The whiners of Eve will no longer have an elected body to represent them, and while the whining on the forums will reach new peaks, we will still be taking stuff and causing carebears to cry. You waste no time in dishing out insults to whomever disagrees with you. As much as you probably disagree with this, Eve does not solely revolve on what you think Eve should be. And calling everyone else insane while you profess sanity yourself (as you did in the other CSM thread related to this very same issue) isn't exactly the best way to prove your point either. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:37:00 - [29] Originally by: Exlegion You waste no time in dishing out insults to whomever disagrees with you. I was just trying to be funny. Originally by: Exlegion As much as you probably disagree with this, Eve does not solely revolve on what you think Eve should be. Believe me, I've understood that by now. Originally by: Exlegion And calling everyone else insane while you profess sanity yourself (as you did in the other CSM thread related to this very same issue) isn't exactly the best way to prove your point either. Well, in that instance it was pretty ****ing stupid. It basically stated that all of a sudden CCP realised that suicide ganking was too easy, despite the mechanics being in the game for five years, and despite having actively nerfed suicide ganking on several occasions. I've got to call 'em as I see 'em. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Terminus adacai Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:52:00 - [30] Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 10/07/2008 15:51:07 Don't give into the vocal whiners CCP. Nobody would suicide gank without someone willing to fly in ships worth ganking. CSM is filled with people who want to change EVE, but lacks the people who are willing to admit some things just don't need change. It's a really biased system. If any of you guys are reading this please take what the CSM say with a grain of salt. seems that you fail to admit that some things need change too... Got your gank on? ;) I look forward to the day that gankers have their risk raised... No insurance for Concord reactions to criminal events. It has been a long time coming. Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:54:00 - [31] Originally by: Terminus adacai seems that you fail to admit that some things need change too... Got your gank on? ;) I look forward to the day that gankers have their risk raised... No insurance for Concord reactions to criminal events. It has been a long time coming. Doubt that'll ever happen. CCP aren't dumbasses. They're just tired of whines. They're gonna throw the whiners a bone and shut them up for a month. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Dungar Loghoth Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.10 17:08:00 - [32] Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 10/07/2008 17:09:26 I would guess there's not more than one person on the CSM that has ever suicide ganked for a profit. I would also guess that not more than 3 people who have posted in this thread have ever suicide ganked at all. How you think a fair solution can be achieved by people that have no idea what suicide ganking is like is beyond me, but that seems to be a perpetual theme of the CSM. Live in empire your entire life? You're qualified to talk about PvP balance issues and Titans! Never manage a POS in your life? I know I want you to speak for the community as to how POS mechanics can me reworked to be more fun! Don't Do Factional Warfare? I can't wait to hear how you think it can be improved. ---
Lurana Lay Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.10 17:13:00 - [33] Glad they are finally commenting on this but, barring possible Insurance payout changes, I don't see much changing as the game is riddled with endless alts. Yeah, yeah I know recycling alts is against the EULA. But like that matters to anyone that suicide-ganks.
Blydchyld Caldari Galactic Extensive Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.10 17:56:00 - [34] Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 10/07/2008 17:09:26 I would guess there's not more than one person on the CSM that has ever suicide ganked for a profit. I would also guess that not more than 3 people who have posted in this thread have ever suicide ganked at all. How you think a fair solution can be achieved by people that have no idea what suicide ganking is like is beyond me, but that seems to be a perpetual theme of the CSM. Live in empire your entire life? You're qualified to talk about PvP balance issues and Titans! Never manage a POS in your life? I know I want you to speak for the community as to how POS mechanics can me reworked to be more fun! Don't Do Factional Warfare? I can't wait to hear how you think it can be improved. I'm sorry, but you may as well close this thread now, there is NOTHING else that can be said that has not been covered above. epic post! I LIKE ARK! The above post is my post and does not represent the views of any entity, If my views have upset you PM me
KHEN IGNITION.	Posted - 2008.07.10 18:00:00 - [35] Edited by: KHEN on 10/07/2008 18:00:42 lowsec : no more miners, a place where pirates fight each other in various sized gangs nullsec : the facebook place : "- hello, do you recognize me ? - oh yes, you are blue, am I blue to you ? - Yes M8, fly safe, oohhh wait this shuttle is neutral let's blob it !". Nullsec IS kitty online, a safe place where peeps grant autorizations to each other and sometimes show their muscle on forums highsec : the last place where to have fun : suicide ganking seems fun but shouldn't all these mighty pvp'ers be doing something more...courageous ? everywhere : no more solo pvp ? I'm not a good pvper and haven't really played EVE for more than 8 months now. But if I had time to do some PvP, I'd choose hisec piracy because it seems that there ain't much fun elsewhere in EVE nowadays. Poor EVE
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.10 18:18:00 - [36] Originally by: Princess Jodi Originally by: Ki An ... Some useless Pro-Piewrat drivel ... All you've stated is that you think the Piewrat style should rule over other playstyles. People wishing to leech off of others can easily take their playstyle to low-sec or 0.0 - oh, but wait: Someone might actually fight back there. Meanwhile, the CareBears have no where else to go but Empire. If the Piewrats insist on invading Empire space and have found a game mechanic that allows them Reward without any Risk then that game mechanic needs to be changed. Not eliminated, just adjusted so that Risk vs. Reward is properly balanced. Your argument is anologous to someone who says "I'm going to be a big-game hunter and help rid the world of these ferocious man-eating beasts!" Then they load up an Uzi and head to the Zoo. Quoted For Truth Having said that, even if all the purposed changes make it in, suicide ganking will not go away entirely, NOR SHOULD IT. Hopefully it will return the balanced in high Sec to what it was a year or two ago before the massive grown in suicide ganking. And for those who disagree that there has been massive growth, CCP has the data, and they say its become a problem that it did NOT used be. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Threv Echandari Caldari K Directorate	Posted - 2008.07.10 18:27:00 - [37] Originally by: Jade Constantine Please join the Caldari Militia with your main's corp and I'll be happy to show you how much "a carbear" this CSM rep is Hey Jade, Did I miss something? I thought that you all were Equal opportunity anarchists...you know we don't care who we only only target Corps that seem effective regardless of faction (or words to that effect) So now your admitting that you all are targeting only Caldari FW and not every FW corps in general or did I miss something? ---------------------------------------- Happiness is a Wet Pod
Faife Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.07.10 18:56:00 - [38] Originally by: Ki An So, this is CCP telling us that piracy is a less valid playstyle than endless mission running, and that mission runners, on top of high income, low risk and high standings, should be tougher to gank. GG. please contract me your tears. tyia. - -
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.10 19:07:00 - [39] Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 10/07/2008 17:09:26 I would guess there's not more than one person on the CSM that has ever suicide ganked for a profit. I would also guess that not more than 3 people who have posted in this thread have ever suicide ganked at all. How you think a fair solution can be achieved by people that have no idea what suicide ganking is like is beyond me, but that seems to be a perpetual theme of the CSM. Live in empire your entire life? You're qualified to talk about PvP balance issues and Titans! Never manage a POS in your life? I know I want you to speak for the community as to how POS mechanics can me reworked to be more fun! Don't Do Factional Warfare? I can't wait to hear how you think it can be improved. The CSM is made up of elected officials. It's not our fault that those who are pro-suicide ganking aren't a large enough demographic to get a candidate elected that supports them. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.07.10 19:23:00 - [40] Originally by: Faife Originally by: Ki An So, this is CCP telling us that piracy is a less valid playstyle than endless mission running, and that mission runners, on top of high income, low risk and high standings, should be tougher to gank. GG. please contract me your tears. tyia. It's funny, the tears of "gankbears" should be something I savour. As much as the opposite crowd professes their love of "carebear tears", that should give legitimacy to such glee on my part as well. But no, I am incapable of enjoying anyones tears, even when I feel it would be justified, and even when they are long overdue. Funny, that. As in peculiar, of course.
Gort Storm Guard Elite	Posted - 2008.07.10 19:27:00 - [41] Bring on trade able killrights. And make some kind of system-wide market mechanism for the actual trading. 24-hour delay on taking effect, of course, to prevent surprise ganking. It's overdue for bounty hunting to get wheels and a motor. G -- When in doubt, empty the magazine.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.10 19:41:00 - [42] Originally by: Gort Bring on trade able killrights. And make some kind of system-wide market mechanism for the actual trading. 24-hour delay on taking effect, of course, to prevent surprise ganking. It's overdue for bounty hunting to get wheels and a motor. G I agree that this part of the proposal actually has some merit, and it would improve the game in many ways. However, this is like an piece of chocolate in a pile of crap. The chocolate might taste nice, but it's still covered in crap. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.10 23:49:00 - [43] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 10/07/2008 17:09:26 I would guess there's not more than one person on the CSM that has ever suicide ganked for a profit. I would also guess that not more than 3 people who have posted in this thread have ever suicide ganked at all. How you think a fair solution can be achieved by people that have no idea what suicide ganking is like is beyond me, but that seems to be a perpetual theme of the CSM. Live in empire your entire life? You're qualified to talk about PvP balance issues and Titans! Never manage a POS in your life? I know I want you to speak for the community as to how POS mechanics can me reworked to be more fun! Don't Do Factional Warfare? I can't wait to hear how you think it can be improved. The CSM is made up of elected officials. It's not our fault that those who are pro-suicide ganking aren't a large enough demographic to get a candidate elected that supports them. Since only a small minority actually voted they only represent the minority. But still it doesnt have anything to do with what Dungar Loghoth was saying.
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.07.10 23:56:00 - [44] What a joke. It's only possible to get suicide ganked if you make a mistake. It's like a tax for being stupid.
Aphoticus	Posted - 2008.07.11 00:00:00 - [45] I think CCP is looking at it from a live universe, role-playing bent and not what would please one person or another. We should concider what is being brought to the table from a perspective of role-play, much like a game master, and ask ourselves, leaving the selfish reasoning out of it, do these changes make role-playing sense?
Eternal Error Exitus Acta Probant	Posted - 2008.07.11 00:11:00 - [46] Originally by: Noelle Fay don't nerf it. bigger sec hit maybe, but leave it at that. seriously, this is not hello kitty online.
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.11 00:11:00 - [47] Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 10/07/2008 17:09:26 I would guess there's not more than one person on the CSM that has ever suicide ganked for a profit. I would also guess that not more than 3 people who have posted in this thread have ever suicide ganked at all. How you think a fair solution can be achieved by people that have no idea what suicide ganking is like is beyond me, but that seems to be a perpetual theme of the CSM. Live in empire your entire life? You're qualified to talk about PvP balance issues and Titans! Never manage a POS in your life? I know I want you to speak for the community as to how POS mechanics can me reworked to be more fun! Don't Do Factional Warfare? I can't wait to hear how you think it can be improved. The CSM is made up of elected officials. It's not our fault that those who are pro-suicide ganking aren't a large enough demographic to get a candidate elected that supports them. Since only a small minority actually voted they only represent the minority. But still it doesnt have anything to do with what Dungar Loghoth was saying. Those elected represent those that took the effort to vote, and CCP did their best to let everyone in the game know that it was going on short of modal popup windows. If the pro-suicide ganking crowd is **ed that the anti-suicide ganking crowd has more influence, it's because that they didn't care enough to put forward or support the candidates of their choice. How is that anyone else's fault? It's certainly not the current CSM membership's. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)**
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.07.11 00:27:00 - [48] In my opinion, without having read the entire thread, the bulk of the issue comes from where the resources come from for the suicide gankers. Without much effort to point out, this is the null sec areas. As has been stated, mining in null sec is not only lucrative, but essential for the alliances there, not only that, as pointed out, there are rats down there that by killing them brings ones rep up within a matter of several days. The issue isnt that there arnt enough deturrets, but that resources are too readily available in certain areas of the game. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.11 00:32:00 - [49] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 10/07/2008 17:09:26 I would guess there's not more than one person on the CSM that has ever suicide ganked for a profit. I would also guess that not more than 3 people who have posted in this thread have ever suicide ganked at all. How you think a fair solution can be achieved by people that have no idea what suicide ganking is like is beyond me, but that seems to be a perpetual theme of the CSM. Live in empire your entire life? You're qualified to talk about PvP balance issues and Titans! Never manage a POS in your life? I know I want you to speak for the community as to how POS mechanics can me reworked to be more fun! Don't Do Factional Warfare? I can't wait to hear how you think it can be improved. The CSM is made up of elected officials. It's not our fault that those who are pro-suicide ganking aren't a large enough demographic to get a candidate elected that supports them. Since only a small minority actually voted they only represent the minority. But still it doesnt have anything to do with what Dungar Loghoth was saying. Those elected represent those that took the effort to vote, and CCP did their best to let everyone in the game know that it was going on short of modal popup windows. If the pro-suicide ganking crowd is ****ed that the anti-suicide ganking crowd has more influence, it's because that they didn't care enough to put forward or support the candidates of their choice. How is that anyone else's fault? It's certainly not the current CSM membership's. You apparently missed the real issue again.
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.11 00:34:00 - [50] Originally by: Esmenet Since only a small minority actually voted they only represent the minority. But still it doesnt have anything to do with what Dungar Loghoth was saying. And who's fault is that? How do you make sense of your own "logic"? And before you come in with the "I didn't like any of the candidates" crap you can always enter yourself and run for CSM. And before you come in with "the whole CSM idea is stupid" and go a full circle with your "logic" then stop posting on "stupid CSM threads" and do go on with your life. You have no one but yourself to blame so please stop it with these ridiculous excuses. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.11 00:39:00 - [51] Originally by: Esmenet You apparently missed the real issue again. By all means, enlighten me. There is another point based on ignorance of how representative democracy works, but I didn't think it terribly important to address it. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Khrillian Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.11 00:55:00 - [52] Let's all just go and play some Hello Kitty Online
Star Chief Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.07.11 01:06:00 - [53] Originally by: Esmenet Since only a small minority actually voted they only represent the minority. In a true democracy, yes (Switzerland?). In a representative democracy, no (United States). In 1992, Bill Clinton won with less than 50% of the sliver of the population that even bothered to vote. Didn't stop him from getting stuff done (and other things).
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.11 01:13:00 - [54] suicide ganking is kinda weak imo, but its eve. eat or be eaten. so, how do we make it NOT weak and a more fair and acceptable profession? like the man said earlier, dont nerf stuff to crap and make it impossible for ppl to gank... MAKE Bounty hunting a real and obtainable profession. and do it in a way that it can be a good recourse for the suicide gank (among many many other things including "hey, i just dont like this guy") Something contingent on a track record. in example: bounty hunter can nail anyone using current pvp mechanics in lowsec/0.0 , bounty hunter has likelihood / odds / whatever of concord 'looking the other way' when they hunt a high profile multiple offender in high sec. its eve. dont nerf ganking, just fight fire w/ fire ------------------------------ of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most
Zinras Caldari Order of draugr	Posted - 2008.07.11 01:26:00 - [55] Edited by: Zinras on 11/07/2008 01:26:09 While I do find the amount of ganker crying funny, considering their normal forum behavior, I don't think CCP should nerf it into oblivion. Tradeable killrights + low insurance payouts if CONCORDed while taking part in a kill could be a couple of simple solutions without breaking it for innocents that accidentally shoot someone or is tricked into it by auto targetting etc. It could start some bounty hunter corps up or at the very least provide great work for current merc corps at a cheaper rate, since the mercs won't have to suicide their ships. /0.02 ISK Originally by: CCP Greyscale moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal CCP's best friend
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.07.11 01:29:00 - [56] Tradeable kill rights = cool Sec loss for every ganker particpating for ship kill = fine Sec loss depending on sec status of target = fine Criminals out of NPC corps = whatever Insurance payouts modified for suicide ganking = WTF??? If you intend to modify insurance or NPC corps, you ned to look at the ENTIRE mechanic and not just one small aspect. I am very disappointed in the CSM for bringing up this topic, suicide ganking is extremely rare in EVE and really only matters to dumb carebears who want to autopilot in high sec with billions of isk in cargo making isk without any competition or even being at their computer. Lame. However I fully expect CCP to change mechanics the right way. Hi-sec being safer, not safe is a key game mechanic CCP loves to have and suicide ganking is pretty much the main thing keeping hi-sec being safer and not 100% safe. No way will CCP completely take out insurance for suiciding ships. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2008.07.11 01:30:00 - [57] Locked. Please don't cross-post, getting your view across to the devs is much easier for all concerned if you stay in the designated thread, linked in the original post. Mitnal Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang


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