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CSM Minutes finally posted - Suicide Ganking = Medium/High Priority

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Plumpy McPudding	Posted - 2008.07.10 14:39:00 - [1] Edited by: Plumpy McPudding on 10/07/2008 14:42:10 Please head on over and look at everything because these changes concern all of us. Here "CCP realized that even though they do not plan to remove suicide ganking completely, today's suicide gank mechanics are too biased in the ganker's favor, and they have set up a task force to look into suicide ganking and crime and punishment in general. For the short term, they plan to increase the security hit for crime in high-sec space and make sure that all ship kills will be counted as kills, with the matching sec hit, for everyone that participated. CCP also considers influencing the sec hit penalty based on the security status of the victim. Mid term, the plans are to look into suicide ganking and the insurance payout, once they have made sure that new players are not impacted by this too much and have extra security in place so that accidents should not be punished. In the long term, they plan to have criminal records for players, with the appropriate consequences. Tradable killrights are also on the table, to let players deal with criminals instead of just CONCORD being responsible for security. Alex (CSM Bane Glorious) said that most suicide gankers already thought of ratting to regain security status as painful. Because a lot of suicide ganking occurs from NPC corporations, it was considered to move criminal offenders out of the NPC corporations into Pirate NPC corporations if they committed too many crimes. Eva (CSM Ankhesentapemkah) reacted to this that it could be standing based, like Factional Warfare, where a player would be ejected out of the militia if their standing with the faction became too low. Various people added to this that criminals could lose standing with the faction where they committed their crimes in addition to the security status hit. As for the bounty system, it was suggested that the bounty could be paid out in parts, with the amount being paid out at a moment depending on the damage inflicted on the criminal, so that a criminal could still have bounty remaining after the first time he was killed." __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.
Durzel Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.10 14:45:00 - [2] Originally by: Plumpy McPudding Alex (CSM Bane Glorious) said that most suicide gankers already thought of ratting to regain security status as painful. Unless they recycle their alts, which we all know is an exploit but it's also one which is to all intents and purposes impossible to prove outside CCPs direct pro-active involvement (not like suicide gank targets can petition saying "I think X is going to recycle their toon"). Jihadswarm also proves quite convincingly that having to rat to build up security status isn't a deterrent to career gankers.
Princess Jodi Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:13:00 - [3] Nice to see that this issue is being addressed, and with proper care about the causes and effects. The tradable kill rights concept is very good, and a long time comming. Bounty Hunters should be a viable profession. At present, its not very viable to only have kill rights if the person killed you first. I also like the idea of variable damages based on the victim's security status. Face it, if you were to gank a respected member of society you'll get more negative reaction than if you killed some scumbucket.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:20:00 - [4] Edited by: Ki An on 10/07/2008 15:23:09 Originally by: Princess Jodi Nice to see that this issue is being addressed, and with proper care about the causes and effects. The tradable kill rights concept is very good, and a long time comming. Bounty Hunters should be a viable profession. At present, its not very viable to only have kill rights if the person killed you first. I also like the idea of variable damages based on the victim's security status. Face it, if you were to gank a respected member of society you'll get more negative reaction than if you killed some scumbucket. So, this is CCP telling us that piracy is a less valid playstyle than endless mission running, and that mission runners, on top of high income, low risk and high standings, should be tougher to gank. GG. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Dantes Revenge	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:25:00 - [5] If a PVP element to ratting could also be implemented, maybe this would help. Rather than taking a sec hit for shooting at players with a sec rating <-0.1 in lowsec, this should be changed to give the attacking player a sec gain consistent with the ship kill. Your sec rating would then be repaired inversely proportional to the rating of the person whose ship you kill (whoever laid the final blow gets the sec repair not everyone in a large gang). Pods may receive an additional sec repair boost therefore podding is more beneficial. This would encourage more lowsec PVP in small gang and 1v1 encounters. It would also encourage bounty hunters who currently take a sec hit for shooting other players in lowsec even though the player they are hunting has a negative sec rating. The same mechanics as are currently in place should stand for initiaiting combat against positive sec players. Return fire is acceptable. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:32:00 - [6] Why not discuss it in the thread there, instead of here? You know, the place where the CSM and CCP are watching for meaningful replies, and where someone can actually voice their support (the little thumbs-up thing)? warp drive active \| nature vraie
Noelle Fay State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:33:00 - [7] don't nerf it. bigger sec hit maybe, but leave it at that. seriously, this is not hello kitty online. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The secret to success, whether it's women or money, is knowing when to quit. I oughta know: I'm divorced and broke.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:34:00 - [8] Originally by: Winterblink Why not discuss it in the thread there, instead of here? You know, the place where the CSM and CCP are watching for meaningful replies, and where someone can actually voice their support (the little thumbs-up thing)? Because there's no thumbs-down thing and that makes me outrageously outraged. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:37:00 - [9] Edited by: Tarminic on 10/07/2008 15:37:23 Shame about some of the marketing stuff that can't be implemented (limiting buy/sell orders by standing), that would have been really cool to be honest. Overall, encouraging stuff though. I'd be interested to see how much of these suggestions makes it into the next major release. Also, small freighter = epic win. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:41:00 - [10] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/07/2008 15:44:08 Tradable killrights would be a great idea if players didnt use their recyclable alts to do the suicides... Moving players from npc corps when they become criminals would be a great idea if players didnt use their recyclable alts to do the suicides... And so on. CCP: You just cant fight this as long as alts are easily replaced. --- Its dead, Jim.
Princess Jodi Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:41:00 - [11] Originally by: Ki An ... Some useless Pro-Piewrat drivel ... All you've stated is that you think the Piewrat style should rule over other playstyles. People wishing to leech off of others can easily take their playstyle to low-sec or 0.0 - oh, but wait: Someone might actually fight back there. Meanwhile, the CareBears have no where else to go but Empire. If the Piewrats insist on invading Empire space and have found a game mechanic that allows them Reward without any Risk then that game mechanic needs to be changed. Not eliminated, just adjusted so that Risk vs. Reward is properly balanced. Your argument is anologous to someone who says "I'm going to be a big-game hunter and help rid the world of these ferocious man-eating beasts!" Then they load up an Uzi and head to the Zoo.
Jenina Hawke Minmatar Core Domination Big Bang Quantum	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:42:00 - [12] Edited by: Jenina Hawke on 10/07/2008 15:43:35 Ehm.... sorry for butting in... but then, how about us poor faction mission runners? Because of such, I have a low sec status and negative (empire) faction status - so I am ok to gank? But even if I am Sanshas Little Darling, no Sansha rat will leave me alone in a belt or defend my cute ass on a gate. I want FW Sansha Navies to protect me too!!! * insert sarcastic whine and lots of cheese * Heh... I think all gankers should be given the same penalty, regardless of whom they attack. And I think all whiners - regardless of cheese status - should really just stop being such whorum warriors and take a few pvp classes. C'on, what's the big deal, it is just ISK! Jen *** No signature is good enough *** DGAF Newbie Guide
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:47:00 - [13] Originally by: Princess Jodi All you've stated is that you think the Piewrat style should rule over other playstyles. No, that's not what I stated. Maybe you should read it again. What I did state was confusion over the fact that high sec mission running - without a doubt the most risk-free and still fairly lucrative profession in Eve - should be boosted by making mission runners tougher to gank - ON TOP OF THEIR OTHER ADVANTAGES. Originally by: Princess Jodi People wishing to leech off of others can easily take their playstyle to low-sec or 0.0 - oh, but wait: Someone might actually fight back there. Why don't you take a wild stab in the dark as to why more and more pirates are moving their business to high sec? It's because that's where the money's at. I live in low sec, and I low low sec pvp, but in order to make isk I either have to go extort others in high sec or have a carebear alt. Originally by: Princess Jodi Meanwhile, the CareBears have no where else to go but Empire. Not true. I know for a fact that the northern parts of nul-sec is crawling with carebears. Originally by: Princess Jodi If the Piewrats insist on invading Empire space and have found a game mechanic that allows them Reward without any Risk then that game mechanic needs to be changed. Yes, I agree. Problem is, pirates haven't found any such game mechanic. The risk is still there, and the isk/h is still lower than running lvl 4's. Originally by: Princess Jodi Not eliminated, just adjusted so that Risk vs. Reward is properly balanced. If this was the plan, CCP should lower the consequences for suicide ganking. Originally by: Princess Jodi Your argument is anologous to someone who says "I'm going to be a big-game hunter and help rid the world of these ferocious man-eating beasts!" Then they load up an Uzi and head to the Zoo. That makes no sense at all. Never make anologies again. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:50:00 - [14] Edited by: DubanFP on 10/07/2008 15:51:07 Don't give into the vocal whiners CCP. Nobody would suicide gank without someone willing to fly in ships worth ganking. CSM is filled with people who want to change EVE, but lacks the people who are willing to admit some things just don't need change. It's a really biased system. If any of you guys are reading this please take what the CSM say with a grain of salt. _______________ CCP Atropos > I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Doc Extropy Gallente Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:51:00 - [15] Big agreements on the stuff! a) Dual training 4tw... so I can train, HAC 5 and occasionally plug in a second skill which will be trained as well? PLEASE DO THAT! I NEVER asked for a skillqueue of anything more than this, it's just to remove medium duration skills from the "omg annoying stuff blackbook". As soon as this is implemented, my list of skills will be cleaner than ever before. I'll think about the devs when I'll drink my Billard - beer this evening! b) Tradeable killrights? YES PLEASE! This would improve Eve a lot... I see a whole new way of gameplay arise, a lot more PVP and so much more fun. --- Summary: I like it. Good stuff. --- Skill queue now! Nerf skillpoint loss and half done skills! WE ARE PAYING CUSTOMERS AND DESERVE MAXIMUM COMFORT!
hedfunk Caldari Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:54:00 - [16] And the carebears win again? What a suprise.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.10 15:57:00 - [17] Originally by: hedfunk And the carebears win again? What a suprise. Wouldn't say so, brosef. A body of elected carebears have whined enough to get CCP to acknowledge that whiners whine. CCP has proposed a commitee to see if the whiners actually have a reason to whine, and this whine comitee will then pass a judgement on the validity of said whines. When all this is said and done, the CSM will no longer exist due to ripping each other's throats out when they meet up in Iceland. The whiners of Eve will no longer have an elected body to represent them, and while the whining on the forums will reach new peaks, we will still be taking stuff and causing carebears to cry. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
hedfunk Caldari Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:01:00 - [18] Edited by: hedfunk on 10/07/2008 16:02:08 Originally by: Ki An Originally by: hedfunk And the carebears win again? What a suprise. Wouldn't say so, brosef. A body of elected carebears have whined enough to get CCP to acknowledge that whiners whine. CCP has proposed a commitee to see if the whiners actually have a reason to whine, and this whine comitee will then pass a judgement on the validity of said whines. When all this is said and done, the CSM will no longer exist due to ripping each other's throats out when they meet up in Iceland. The whiners of Eve will no longer have an elected body to represent them, and while the whining on the forums will reach new peaks, we will still be taking stuff and causing carebears to cry. lol, good stuff. It just seems like if there's enough whines on the forum, they always give in. Forgetting the fact that most of the whiners have never been ganked or have ganked. It was the same for the privateers, Nos, ECM, nano BS'.... EDIT: Also, CCP like to overwield the nerfbat. I can see you being able to get perhaps 10kill in highsec before sec status goes down past -5
Doc Extropy Gallente Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:02:00 - [19] Originally by: hedfunk And the carebears win again? What a suprise. Hm, no... I am all for PVP and suicide ganking, but not without real consequences. Tradeable killrights WOULD provide REAL consequences such as killing the offender not in his cheap 500k frig but when he's flying his faction fitted CNR while doing missions. No one said you can't gank any longer. You just have to face the repercussions of your actions. --- Skill queue now! Nerf skillpoint loss and half done skills! WE ARE PAYING CUSTOMERS AND DESERVE MAXIMUM COMFORT!
hedfunk Caldari Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:04:00 - [20] Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: hedfunk And the carebears win again? What a suprise. Hm, no... I am all for PVP and suicide ganking, but not without real consequences. Tradeable killrights WOULD provide REAL consequences such as killing the offender not in his cheap 500k frig but when he's flying his faction fitted CNR while doing missions. No one said you can't gank any longer. You just have to face the repercussions of your actions. Don't get me wrong, tradable kill rights are fine by me, great idea imo. Insurance tweaking is ok too, aslong as it's just tweaking, not removing it altogether. The sec hit is what annoys me, as i can see CCP over nerfing it. e.g Privateer wars went from 200, down to 5 for the same price.
Chaos Breeze HellCorp Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:04:00 - [21] can we please change this game so i can make isk allday without being at computer? please i really need this money. ohh and can we get 6-10/10 complexes in highsec cause thoose bubbles are like mad to get trough and totally unfair... desolve lowsec space aswell cause thoose -10 guys dont need to play this game, and can we make it so that only i can pick up my loot and nothing gets destroyed, and can we make so that i cant be attacked .... im not a pvper and dont like being shot at, they dont even stop when i yell at them to stop. Can we introduce auto locking targets when your current ones are down, this will help greatly at not looking at the screen when im missoning ohh and can i get cov cloaks on all my ships, otherwise its just to unfair Seriously get a grip and change the things that actually needs changing
Esu Nahalas The Night Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:09:00 - [22] Originally by: Chaos Breeze can we please change this game so i can make isk allday without being at computer? please i really need this money. ohh and can we get 6-10/10 complexes in highsec cause thoose bubbles are like mad to get trough and totally unfair... desolve lowsec space aswell cause thoose -10 guys dont need to play this game, and can we make it so that only i can pick up my loot and nothing gets destroyed, and can we make so that i cant be attacked .... im not a pvper and dont like being shot at, they dont even stop when i yell at them to stop. Can we introduce auto locking targets when your current ones are down, this will help greatly at not looking at the screen when im missoning ohh and can i get cov cloaks on all my ships, otherwise its just to unfair Seriously get a grip and change the things that actually needs changing You know, if you plan on telling people to "get a grip" you should probably be less melodramatic about it.
Vim Spook Division	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:16:00 - [23] Tradeable killrights \o/ Wait! /me goes to see who can kill him and realizes he better be a good boy soon.
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:17:00 - [24] Originally by: Ki An When all this is said and done, the CSM will no longer exist due to ripping each other's throats out when they meet up in Iceland. The whiners of Eve will no longer have an elected body to represent them, and while the whining on the forums will reach new peaks, we will still be taking stuff and causing carebears to cry. You do realize that the CSM has already met in Iceland, correct? ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Khald Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:24:00 - [25] What I dont understand is why player pirates are treated diffrently than NPC pirates. I like the idea that if you pirate enough a state corporation will boot you for being a liability and a pirate corp picks you up. Then any player can shoot you anywhere. You are a pirate. You are outside the law so you no longer get protection.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:26:00 - [26] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Ki An When all this is said and done, the CSM will no longer exist due to ripping each other's throats out when they meet up in Iceland. The whiners of Eve will no longer have an elected body to represent them, and while the whining on the forums will reach new peaks, we will still be taking stuff and causing carebears to cry. You do realize that the CSM has already met in Iceland, correct? Are they still alive? Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:32:00 - [27] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Ki An When all this is said and done, the CSM will no longer exist due to ripping each other's throats out when they meet up in Iceland. The whiners of Eve will no longer have an elected body to represent them, and while the whining on the forums will reach new peaks, we will still be taking stuff and causing carebears to cry. You do realize that the CSM has already met in Iceland, correct? Are they still alive? Please join the Caldari Militia with your main's corp and I'll be happy to show you how much "a carbear" this CSM rep is Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Exlegion New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:34:00 - [28] Originally by: Ki An Wouldn't say so, brosef. A body of elected carebears have whined enough to get CCP to acknowledge that whiners whine. CCP has proposed a commitee to see if the whiners actually have a reason to whine, and this whine comitee will then pass a judgement on the validity of said whines. When all this is said and done, the CSM will no longer exist due to ripping each other's throats out when they meet up in Iceland. The whiners of Eve will no longer have an elected body to represent them, and while the whining on the forums will reach new peaks, we will still be taking stuff and causing carebears to cry. You waste no time in dishing out insults to whomever disagrees with you. As much as you probably disagree with this, Eve does not solely revolve on what you think Eve should be. And calling everyone else insane while you profess sanity yourself (as you did in the other CSM thread related to this very same issue) isn't exactly the best way to prove your point either. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:37:00 - [29] Originally by: Exlegion You waste no time in dishing out insults to whomever disagrees with you. I was just trying to be funny. Originally by: Exlegion As much as you probably disagree with this, Eve does not solely revolve on what you think Eve should be. Believe me, I've understood that by now. Originally by: Exlegion And calling everyone else insane while you profess sanity yourself (as you did in the other CSM thread related to this very same issue) isn't exactly the best way to prove your point either. Well, in that instance it was pretty ****ing stupid. It basically stated that all of a sudden CCP realised that suicide ganking was too easy, despite the mechanics being in the game for five years, and despite having actively nerfed suicide ganking on several occasions. I've got to call 'em as I see 'em. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Terminus adacai Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.10 16:52:00 - [30] Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 10/07/2008 15:51:07 Don't give into the vocal whiners CCP. Nobody would suicide gank without someone willing to fly in ships worth ganking. CSM is filled with people who want to change EVE, but lacks the people who are willing to admit some things just don't need change. It's a really biased system. If any of you guys are reading this please take what the CSM say with a grain of salt. seems that you fail to admit that some things need change too... Got your gank on? ;) I look forward to the day that gankers have their risk raised... No insurance for Concord reactions to criminal events. It has been a long time coming. Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance.

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