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Decentralize the Eve server

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Jade Mitch The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.10 17:08:00 - [1] I'm sure devs at CCP are way ahead of me on this but, I'll share my idea with the community anyway. Last I checked, CCP only has one server (located somewhere in Iceland, Greenland or England I think) which means that players in other parts of the world are going to suffer with latency issues no matter how fast the server is. What CCP needs to do, I believe, is break up that big server cluster and create many small server clusters in different locations around the world. Then connect them together over a secure WAN, or perhaps multiple WANs in parallel. Players could then log on to which ever server cluster is closest to them and get maximum throughput. Is this something CCP would even consider?
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.10 17:21:00 - [2] Won't make any difference in lag. What makes Eve special is it is one universe. If you go to Jita and play in Australia, it is the same Jita that a player in Canada sees. And they see each other in local. CCP has announced many times they will never shard Eve or have multiple primary servers. One universe, one server. For lag, CCP has contracts with backbone providers in many continents to provide priority traffic straight to the eve cluster. This helps mitigate the lag issues because of hoping multiple continents through the Internet. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
Jade Mitch The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.10 17:29:00 - [3] I read that they would never shard the server but I never read that they would never distribute the server accross multiple server clusters. That wouldn't require sharding.
Fraszoid Caldari ULTRA VEGA	Posted - 2008.07.10 17:31:00 - [4] If they decentralize the server, they won't be in the running for one of the most powerful supercomputers on the planet. I'm pretty sure they have the most powerful one in the gamining industry, but they haven't hit the top 500 on Earth... yet. I'm in Western Canada and I can count the number of times lag has been a problem for me. They are working with out any problems on my end. -------------------------------------------------- Everyone is born right handed, only the great over come it. Check out my players guide at: http://www.eve-miners.info/guide/minersguide.html
Arvald Caldari Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.10 17:35:00 - [5] also alot of people tend to forget the fact that it is likely your comp/isp/both causing alot of the lag not jsut the eve servers Originally by: Siddy APERANTLY GEED PEE VEE PEE PLAYAS!!111 there is only one thing left to do...MOAR TECHNO
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.10 17:52:00 - [6] Originally by: Jade Mitch I read that they would never shard the server but I never read that they would never distribute the server accross multiple server clusters. That wouldn't require sharding. When two players have to be in the same place, how would disttributing the server(s) across multiple areas help? 1) Both players have to be on the same server to be on the same node. If the node for Jita is in Germany, the players in Australia have to connect to Germany. If the node is in Australia, the players from Germany have to connect to Australia. Doesn't help, someone gets lagged. 2) ALL the servers/nodes have to talk to the centralized databases. Hence the server that is now in Australia has to talk to the databases in London. The lag is now actually worse than now because the server-interconnects are much faster than internet connections, and with Infini-Band get even faster. Net loss do to database lag. "Syncing" the databases in multiple locations don't help either because there is always a delay and the information MUST be up-to-date when the players jumps from one node to another. If they are on a server in Australia and just got blown up while jumping to another node that is in Germany they need to arrive in their pod, not in the BS they just lost. Sorry, doesn't help the overall health of the game and will actually cause greater issues and more lag. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
Jade Mitch The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.10 22:04:00 - [7] Edited by: Jade Mitch on 10/07/2008 22:12:37 Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby When two players have to be in the same place, how would distributing the server(s) across multiple areas help? IP routing over a private WAN is MUCH faster than it is over the internet. Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby 1) Both players have to be on the same server to be on the same node. If the node for Jita is in Germany, the players in Australia have to connect to Germany. If the node is in Australia, the players from Germany have to connect to Australia. Doesn't help, someone gets lagged. The idea is to put servers in Germany AND Australia (among other places). They would collectively host a single unsharded Eve server while synchronizing and load balancing with each other over a global private WAN. It would help because it would minimize the distances clients have to communicate with the Eve server over the internet. Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby 2) ALL the servers/nodes have to talk to the centralized databases. Hence the server that is now in Australia has to talk to the databases in London. The lag would then be worse than it is now because the server-interconnects are much faster than internet connections, and with Infini-Band get even faster. Net loss do to database lag. "Syncing" the databases in multiple locations don't help either because there is always a delay and the information MUST be up-to-date when the players jumps from one node to another. If they are on a server in Australia and just got blown up while jumping to another node that is in Germany they need to arrive in their pod, not in the BS they just lost. Data doesn't have to be centalized anywhere. There might be more lag if the servers were synchronizing over the internet but I'm talking about connecting them over a global private WAN. IP routing over a private WAN is WAY FASTER than IP rounting over the internet. The synch latency between multiple servers would be higher than a single centralized server but nowhere near as bad as it is with clients connecting to a single centralized server half way around the world over the internet. I would rather have a few tens of milliseconds of lag from data synchronizing between multiple servers than several thousand milliseconds of lag from my client stuggling to synchronize itself with a centralized server over a long distance internet connection. Again, I'm not talking about sharding, just distributing the Eve software server over many hardware servers. Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Sorry, doesn't help the overall health of the game and will actually cause greater issues and more lag.
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.07.10 22:15:00 - [8] Umm... Wires make the 1's and 0's go places. Wires run from your house... to somewhere... and eventually to CCP. So right now we have: 1) Data goes from your computer in Germany directly to CCP (more or less) 2) CCP processes data, and hands the results out to anyone involved. 3) I'm in the States, so the results come directly to me, from CCP. You're suggesting: 1) Data goes from me in Germany, to German server. 2) German server processes data, and relays that data to CCP mainframe in England. 3) Mainframe disseminates the results to ALL SERVERS in the unlikely event that someone on one of them could be involved. 4) Results are sent to Stateside server, where again receive further dissemination. 5) I receive results from Stateside server. Now what this would accomplish, is adding another link in the chain. A link that currently resembles your ISP. Instead of the processing and results taking place inside a single building with a LAN for transit... you want to make the internet carry the signals. So now twice the traffic is headed down those same Wires... before it reaches you. THAT'S where the lag would come in. When traffic takes too long to get there and back, it's called lag. And when the traffic is taking a worldwide tour before coming back to you, that's called International Lag. --- Don't take my rantings personally. I may just be arguing the topic... unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.07.10 22:24:00 - [9] Got to love people with practically know knowledge educating enterprise businesses on stuff over web forums. Very credible.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.10 22:25:00 - [10] Do you have any idea of the bandwidth requirements Eve has? 44,000 players online at peak. 44 THOUSAND, all with persistant connections. All transferring data, all interconnected. And CCP has stated their design after infiniband and other tweaking can support 100k. So, you would need to have enough data connections on each point of your private WAN to support however many people in each system. Just because some lowsec system in Amarr only has 5 players on it normally doesn't mean that a 2k fleet battle can't happen there tomorrow. How do you handle that? Making sure each of those servers has enough bandwidth to handle maximum players? Then keep all that up to date on all the other servers in real time? The bandwidth requirements are tremendous. That is before costs. Care to wonder what it would cost for the physical connections to have enough bandwidth to equal the internal connections CCP has right now? Then figure out the cost based on how many datacenters are on each continent? There is a thing called cost efficiency. Yes, it sucks that you may be in an area where the connections are slow, but exponentially increasing costs isn't the answer. The answer is to have a better internet connection Originally by: CCP Wrangler Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.10 22:27:00 - [11] Originally by: Jade Mitch There might be more lag on an "Eve-net" if the servers were synchronizing over the internet but I'm talking about synchronizing them over a global private WAN. IP routing over a private WAN is WAY FASTER than IP rounting over the internet. I had to pull this one seperately. Have you any idea how much slower IP connections acrossed a private wan are compared to backplane speeds in a Blade Server? indeed Originally by: CCP Wrangler Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
Jade Mitch The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.10 22:54:00 - [12] Originally by: Marcus Gideon So right now we have: 1) Data goes from your computer in Germany directly to CCP (more or less) 2) CCP processes data, and hands the results out to anyone involved. 3) I'm in the States, so the results come directly to me, from CCP. No, what we have is: 1) Data goes from our computers, here in California, to our ISPs, then gets hot-potatoed through a serious of intermediary servers before finally arriving at the Eve server somewhere in England. 2) The Eve server processes our data and passes the results back through the internet, skipping through another series of intermediary servers before finally updating our clients. 3) We're half way around the world from the Eve server which means our data is almost always the last to get processed and our clients are almost always the last to get updated. Originally by: Marcus Gideon You're suggesting: 1) Data goes from me in Germany, to German server. 2) German server processes data, and relays that data to CCP mainframe in England. 3) Mainframe disseminates the results to ALL SERVERS in the unlikely event that someone on one of them could be involved. 4) Results are sent to Stateside server, where again receive further dissemination. 5) I receive results from Stateside server. No, what I'm suggesting is: 1) Data goes to/from your computer to a local server. 2) The local server processes your data and updates your client almost immediately. 3) At the same time the local server is updating all the other servers around the world over it's own dedicated network. See what I mean?
Jack Rowanburn Demon Theory OWN Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.10 23:07:00 - [13] This is a very bad idea. The only way distributed network like this could work is using MPLS and even then you're looking at the very high end to get the data transfer rates needed. You're talking hundreds of thousands to implement in the first place, followed by tens of thousands a year to keep running plus adding multiple points of failure to the cluster. Originally by: Tamoko Got to love people with practically know knowledge educating enterprise businesses on stuff over web forums. Very credible. Indeed, but it seems par for the course around here. ------------- Insert Sig Here
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.07.10 23:23:00 - [14] If I recall, CCP and Microsoft are in some sort of relationship BECAUSE of the supercomputer CCP has. If I recall CCP either shares the data or sells it to Microsoft simply because its a super computer being used for one of the most intensive activies a system could really do. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Taram Caldar Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.11 01:30:00 - [15] Originally by: Jade Mitch I'm sure devs at CCP are way ahead of me on this but, I'll share my idea with the community anyway. Last I checked, CCP only has one server (located somewhere in Iceland, Greenland or England I think) which means that players in other parts of the world are going to suffer with latency issues no matter how fast the server is. What CCP needs to do, I believe, is break up that big server cluster and create many small server clusters in different locations around the world. Then connect them together over a secure WAN, or perhaps multiple WANs in parallel. Players could then log on to which ever server cluster is closest to them and get maximum throughput. Is this something CCP would even consider? Err... you do realize that 99% of the 'lag' in EVE has nothing whatsoever to do with the internet, right? It's database and server lag. That's why generally EVERYONE lags not just a few people from a certain geographical region. And, honestly, the configuration you are talking about would only cause more lag than there is already because not only would the network traffic of the game have to make wan hops the server comms would as well and the database pulls would as well. Because EVE's database can't really be distributed that way and still be as responsive as it is now, unfortunately. About the only thing they COULD do in relation to your idea is what they have already said they won't: Shard the server. Which is a good call, imo... EVE's greatest strength is that it's 1 universe. If they sharded the server EVE would die. .
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.07.11 02:17:00 - [16] Taram - The point isn't to "shard" the realm. We're not talking about creating pocket universes like WoW, where you start a conversation with "You play Eve too?" and end the conversation with "Oh, well I'm not on that server. Sorry" What we're talking about is having local hubs that talk to each other, rather than a distant hub everyone talks to. Jade - What you fail to understand from my example, perhaps due to my lack of describing it effectively, is... 1) There would still be a Mainframe that maintains the overall records of what is going on in Eve. It is constantly communicating with every single hub you intend on stationing around the world, because anyone, anywhere, at any time... could be doing something that would impact someone, somewhere else. So this constant communication USING EXISTING INTERNET CONNECTIONS will only cause more traffic (read: lag) than we see already. OR 2) There is NO Mainframe maintaining records. Each hub has to establish constant communication with every other hub, in order to maintain complete records. There wouldn't be "occasional sitreps", there would be a constant data stream between how ever many hubs are stationed around the globe. And this constant and steady traffic (read: lag) would be more than we see today. The reason having local hubs works for other MMOs, is because each hub is loaded with the beginning appearance of the game. Then each becomes a separate entity, that evolves INDEPENDANTLY of the others. No two servers will ever contain the exact same data, because players aren't interacting with them all simultaneously. That's what they mean by "shards". The fact that Eve is a single universe, a single "shard", is what prevents you from being able to implement what you're describing. And there is no way, unless CCP were to lay down their own fiber optic lines between continents, that they wouldn't have to piggyback their network of hubs across the same internet that we're using to play the game. That's why there would be more lag. Make sense? --- Don't take my rantings personally. I may just be arguing the topic... unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs	Posted - 2008.07.11 09:37:00 - [17] I think someone has mentioned this already, but to reiterate, internet latency has virtually no effect on eve. Neither does bandwidth. The game plays virtually the same over a 56k modem as it does over a broadband connection. The 'LAG' that people experience in eve is not due to too much information having to make it over the internet to you, it is instead too many database transactions needing to occur on a single node in the cluster, causeing transactions to get lost/delayed. This is a result of the fact that a single solar system in eve cannot span multiple server nodes. They figured when they designed the game, that CPU speeds would continue to increase, and that would be able to accomadate higher demand as the game grows. They did not foresee that processor speeds have pretty much stagnated, instead going the route of multiprocessing instead, which does not help this situation at all. The only thing that will fix 'Lag' in eve is a redesign of the backend system to allow a particularly busy system (Jita?) to span multiple server nodes dynamically. This is something they have stated to be working on, but it is a serious change, and likely not to arrive quickly. New Prospector Class
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.07.11 10:54:00 - [18] Originally by: Jacob Mei If I recall, CCP and Microsoft are in some sort of relationship BECAUSE of the supercomputer CCP has. If I recall CCP either shares the data or sells it to Microsoft simply because its a super computer being used for one of the most intensive activies a system could really do. is IBM.... and yeah, .... is IBM helps CCP build a supercomputer... not the other way... Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
kyoukoku Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.11 14:42:00 - [19] Originally by: Jade Mitch Edited by: Jade Mitch on 10/07/2008 23:02:56 Originally by: Marcus Gideon So right now we have: 1) Data goes from your computer in Germany directly to CCP (more or less) 2) CCP processes data, and hands the results out to anyone involved. 3) I'm in the States, so the results come directly to me, from CCP. No, what we have is: 1) Data goes from your computer in the states to your ISP, then gets hot-potatoed through a serious of intermediary servers before finally arriving at the Eve server somewhere in England. 2) The Eve server processes your data and passes the results back through the internet, skipping through another series of intermediary servers before finally updating your client. 3) You are half way around the world from the Eve server which means your data is almost always the last to get processed and your client is almost always the last to get updated. Originally by: Marcus Gideon You're suggesting: 1) Data goes from me in Germany, to German server. 2) German server processes data, and relays that data to CCP mainframe in England. 3) Mainframe disseminates the results to ALL SERVERS in the unlikely event that someone on one of them could be involved. 4) Results are sent to Stateside server, where again receive further dissemination. 5) I receive results from Stateside server. No. FAIL. There are NO other "servers" between the client and the EVE cluster whatsoever. There are routers and these do nothing more than pass the data on to it's destination. Just because data from your client has to go through, for example, 15 routers to get to the EVE cluster doesn't necessarily mean it is going to get to there any slower than someone who has to go through 5 routers. Your route could be over a series of 15 networks which may have a faster overall link than the person whose route goes over a series of 5 networks which may have a slower overall link. Originally by: Jade Mitch No, what I'm suggesting is: 1) Data goes to/from your computer to your ISP and then jumps through less than a handful of intermediate servers before reaching the local Eve server in no time flat. 2) The local Eve server then processes your data and passed the results back through a few intermediate servers where your client is updated even faster. 3) At the same time the local server is updating your sitrep to all the other servers on the private Eve network completely bypassing the internet. See what I mean? What you are suggesting is just not feasible for the way EVE works. If there was a local server to you it would not be able to send the updated data to your client until it was sure that all the other clients that are affected by whatever you did have the same data. The added overhead in doing this over a global network just would not make any sense on mulitple levels, nevermind the extra costs involved. What you are suggesting would cause so much extra lag it would be unbeliEVEable™. Please if you don't have any idea about how the internet actually works just don't waste your time and others. Ninja Salvaging ain't stealing from desusig.crumplecorn.com
Noa Fuyu Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.07.11 15:11:00 - [20] someone may have posted it, but im feeling lazy so I didnt read it. Solution to less lag = Move to Iceland. -------------------------- I would throw a hundred ships into the void just to see you crushed.
kyoukoku Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.11 15:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Noa Fuyu someone may have posted it, but im feeling lazy so I didnt read it. Solution to less lag = Move to Iceland. No actually move to London for fastest connection. For me at any rate it is just two router hops from my home DSL connection to the EVE cluster in the Docklands datacenter. So far I've not seen any ping time slower than 10-15ms. I'm not on any special ISP or connection just bog standard ADSL2+ through a regular ISP. However for every other reason I would gladly move to Iceland having been there myself and seeing how much better the quality of life there actually is, albeit more expensive, when compared to London or anywhere else in the UK which quite frankly just plain sucks. Plus the Icelandic chicks are generally much hotter Ninja Salvaging ain't stealing from desusig.crumplecorn.com
Hesod Adee Militants of Xen	Posted - 2008.07.11 22:25:00 - [22] Originally by: Clansworth I think someone has mentioned this already, but to reiterate, internet latency has virtually no effect on eve. Neither does bandwidth. The game plays virtually the same over a 56k modem as it does over a broadband connection. The 'LAG' that people experience in eve is not due to too much information having to make it over the internet to you, it is instead too many database transactions needing to occur on a single node in the cluster, causeing transactions to get lost/delayed. This is a result of the fact that a single solar system in eve cannot span multiple server nodes. They figured when they designed the game, that CPU speeds would continue to increase, and that would be able to accomadate higher demand as the game grows. They did not foresee that processor speeds have pretty much stagnated, instead going the route of multiprocessing instead, which does not help this situation at all. The only thing that will fix 'Lag' in eve is a redesign of the backend system to allow a particularly busy system (Jita?) to span multiple server nodes dynamically. This is something they have stated to be working on, but it is a serious change, and likely not to arrive quickly. What makes this worse is that the various operations performed on the servers require the results from other operations before they can begin. For instance you can't do the weapon calculations without results from the movement calculations. By splitting Eve across different servers you are adding lag because the servers have to wait for data to be transferred. So the only splits that I see are at the system level. But I see no improvement there for having the servers in different locations, and having them in the same place simplifies maintenance.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.07.12 03:26:00 - [23] What they need to do is to hide the quality of agents and make them somewhat dynamic. This will break people up into smaller more managable missionrunning and market hubs as people won't be rushing after the notably best agents but stick to what works for them elsewhere. Sure there will still be superhubs supplying the mission hubs but there will be more of them and with the load spread server performance will improve. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Dasfry Caldari Demio's Corporation	Posted - 2008.07.12 11:39:00 - [24] Originally by: Jade Mitch I'm sure devs at CCP are way ahead of me on this but, I'll share my idea with the community anyway. Last I checked, CCP only has one server (located somewhere in Iceland, Greenland or England I think) which means that players in other parts of the world are going to suffer with latency issues no matter how fast the server is. What CCP needs to do, I believe, is break up that big server cluster and create many small server clusters in different locations around the world. Then connect them together over a secure WAN, or perhaps multiple WANs in parallel. Players could then log on to which ever server cluster is closest to them and get maximum throughput. Is this something CCP would even consider? LOL looks like a lot of posters here are confused what your suggesting, you might consider rewritting this in such a way as its easier to understand. Looking at what your saying from a technical point, I believe yes this is a faster system, however thats assuming you do not bring cost into play. If you do, then essentially your asking CCP to create private high bandwidth backbones all around the major areas of the world, in order to bringer better quality net connections. Which isn't cheap. If money wasn't an issue then I'd say yeah lets do it. . Dasfry, CEO Demios Corporation
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs	Posted - 2008.07.12 11:58:00 - [25] Originally by: Dasfry Looking at what your saying from a technical point, I believe yes this is a faster system, however thats assuming you do not bring cost into play. If you do, then essentially your asking CCP to create private high bandwidth backbones all around the major areas of the world, in order to bringer better quality net connections. Which isn't cheap. But what would these faster network connections get you? or me? or anyone for that matter? New Prospector Class
Jack Rowanburn Demon Theory OWN Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.12 12:17:00 - [26] Originally by: Dasfry Originally by: Jade Mitch I'm sure devs at CCP are way ahead of me on this but, I'll share my idea with the community anyway. Last I checked, CCP only has one server (located somewhere in Iceland, Greenland or England I think) which means that players in other parts of the world are going to suffer with latency issues no matter how fast the server is. What CCP needs to do, I believe, is break up that big server cluster and create many small server clusters in different locations around the world. Then connect them together over a secure WAN, or perhaps multiple WANs in parallel. Players could then log on to which ever server cluster is closest to them and get maximum throughput. Is this something CCP would even consider? LOL looks like a lot of posters here are confused what your suggesting, you might consider rewritting this in such a way as its easier to understand. Looking at what your saying from a technical point, I believe yes this is a faster system, however thats assuming you do not bring cost into play. If you do, then essentially your asking CCP to create private high bandwidth backbones all around the major areas of the world, in order to bringer better quality net connections. Which isn't cheap. If money wasn't an issue then I'd say yeah lets do it. What you want is a dedicated CCP only high speed link from Point a (Node in whatever country) to Point B (Eve central server). IP Tunneling or a VPN makes this possible but the sheer bandwidth needed to makes this completely unfeasible - a true gigabit point to point connection over 25-30 miles is bad enough, but from another country? There simply is no way to get from say the US to the UK without travelling through other people's networks, therefore the bandwidth cannot be guaranteed. ------------- Insert Sig Here
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.07.12 20:03:00 - [27] Originally by: Jade Mitch IP routing over a private WAN is MUCH faster than it is over the internet. not... really. Not unless you have the funds to lay your own lines (or pay backbones to connect dedicated lines for you).. otherwise the private WAN is usually just a VPN layer over regular internet traffic anyway,. thus it ends up being slower.
Mahn AlNouhm The Bastards	Posted - 2008.07.12 21:31:00 - [28] Guys, this is simple. Since the internet is a series of pipes, all CCP has to do is build bigger pipes. Duh. Lag problem, solved. Donations denominated in isk are welcome. . . .
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2008.07.12 21:36:00 - [29] Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 12/07/2008 21:36:33 Originally by: Mahn AlNouhm Guys, this is simple. Since the internet is a series of pipes, all CCP has to do is build bigger pipes. Duh. Lag problem, solved. Donations denominated in isk are welcome. How does it feel? Coming in last place in the "human race"? What you fail to understand, is that the 1's and 0's go down those tiny wires hanging out the back of your computer. Then those wires go to more wires, which lead to more wires, which eventually lead to CCP. If CCP were to run their own wires, which they were the only ones using, all over the world... THEN they could make the "pipes" as big as they wanted. But the world only has a certain number of wires. And everyone on the internet is sharing them. SO traffic for Eve is sharing space with traffic for MSN, and traffic for eBay, and traffic for... "Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul." - Billy Madison --- Don't take my rantings personally. I may just be arguing the topic... unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
Mahn AlNouhm The Bastards	Posted - 2008.07.12 23:05:00 - [30] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 12/07/2008 21:36:33 Originally by: Mahn AlNouhm Guys, this is simple. Since the internet is a series of pipes, all CCP has to do is build bigger pipes. Duh. Lag problem, solved. Donations denominated in isk are welcome. How does it feel? Coming in last place in the "human race"? What you fail to understand, is that the 1's and 0's go down those tiny wires hanging out the back of your computer. Then those wires go to more wires, which lead to more wires, which eventually lead to CCP. If CCP were to run their own wires, which they were the only ones using, all over the world... THEN they could make the "pipes" as big as they wanted. But the world only has a certain number of wires. And everyone on the internet is sharing them. SO traffic for Eve is sharing space with traffic for MSN, and traffic for eBay, and traffic for... "Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul." - Billy Madison /facepalm. It would be advisable, Marcus, to get your hands on a sense of humor. Helpful if you want a girlfriend someday. . . .
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.07.12 23:44:00 - [31] I'm afraid your idea isn't feasible. Computers don't work the way you think they do. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Jade Mitch The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.14 01:27:00 - [32] Originally by: Dasfry LOL looks like a lot of posters here are confused what your suggesting, you might consider rewritting this in such a way as its easier to understand. Thanks Dasfry, I'll do that.
Jade Mitch The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.14 16:12:00 - [33] Edited by: Jade Mitch on 14/07/2008 16:15:22 The way I see it, the idea of having a single massive server with super-fast internal connections and super slow internet connections is like having a sports car with a 500 HP engine but only one gear. You would certainly have the highest RPMs in the world but you aren't going to break any speed records. lol All I'm suggesting to CCP is that they replace their single big engine with a few smaller engines- one for each "wheel"- and add a few more gears to each engine's transmission. Then synchronize them through front and rear differentials.
Elaron Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.07.14 17:08:00 - [34] Your system would add a lot of needless complication to an already complex architecture, making it more fragile while only addressing what is probably the least part of the multi-faceted issue wrapped up in the all-encompassing term "lag".
Jade Mitch The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.14 18:17:00 - [35] How can you be sure about all that before it's even been tried?
Elaron Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.07.15 01:17:00 - [36] Edited by: Elaron on 15/07/2008 01:23:45 Do you know how the current EVE architecture works? Do you understand how complex the issues around synchronizing the databases would be? Do you realise that the current architecture just does not support running a solar system in the manner you suggest in such an offhand manner? Have you any inkling of how much it would cost CCP just to rent those high-speed low-latency international private circuits, let alone the costs of hardware and all those extra technicians? Have I started showing you the scope of what you're asking, and made you realise yet just what those resources you're suggesting CCP expend just to reduce your ping could achieve for the game if directed in other directions? Edit: Go read this 2005 Dev Blog by Oveur to get yourself familiar with the Tranquility server architecture; you should find it quite illuminating.
Jade Mitch The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.16 10:36:00 - [37] Thanks for the link. It was a very interesting article. There are a few points I picked up on. First, he mentioned how internet proxies- the intermediary computers I was talking about before- create many bottlenecks which CCP has no control over. If they had dedicated lines between local servers, they might be in a position to reduce that. Second, he pointed out that station services consume a lot of resources. I thought about that for a while because I couldn't think of any station services that use heavy resources. Repair shouldn't. Clinics shouldn't. Insurance? Hardly! They only have a couple of buttons. Then I remembered reading somewhere about how much of a burden station hangers put on the server. I mean, some people are serious pack rats and they never stack their junk heap! Perhaps that was what he was really talking about. Anything that requires a whole bunch of information to be downloaded immediately - the market window, the wallet, station hangers, assets and probably the star map- consume a lot of bandwidth and server resouces. At least with station hangers and wallets, the data is all personal to the player. In that case, it can be cashed on one of these local server I'm talking about and accessed faster without bothering any of the other servers on the network.

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