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Xenoguile
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Posted - 2004.05.22 22:28:00 -
[61]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=82074&page=1
I dont want to just cross post my reply but I am really gona hate these changes... you can read my post in that thread if you like.
_________________ "Its always good day to say good-bye to your loved ones." |
Altai Saker
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Posted - 2004.05.22 23:01:00 -
[62]
With the horrible tracking of larger guns the missiles will become the only viable pvp weapon.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2004.05.22 23:28:00 -
[63]
Havent read all of this, but as far as i can see that MWD nerf must be the most stupid thing thought of yet by ccp.
What is wrong with mwd ? Nothing. What is wrong with frigates/cruisers using multiple MWD's ? They are untouchable.
remove MWD stacking 'bug' where speed increase is counted based on maximum speed at time of activation and replace it by using base ship + skills + lowslot items speed for your calculations of the new top speed.
I dont see much of a problem after that, except maybe increasn webber range a bit so frigs can be slowed down a bit more making em a tad more vulnerable to compensate for the tracking and drone changes ?
And the whole powergrid increase and Raven rebalancing issue is getting out of hand too. Apocs with 8 rails + armortanking ? What is going on here ?
The launcher/missile changes itself sound nice enough, only problem remainng being that frigate and cruiser damage potential in practice is greatly reduced where theory doesnt seem to show it.
Anyway, I'll prolly go and buy both a nice Dominix and a Raven just in case things are messed up more. My megathron can do for now. _______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues. |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.05.22 23:40:00 -
[64]
You mean like:
Base speed 300 Mounts 2 MWD (x500% speed)
Current:
(300+(300*5))*5=9000
Proposed:
300+(300*5)+(300*5)=3300
I've been suggesting that for weeks! Heh... Combine with an agility penalty for using MWD's (over and above the current penalties...
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2004.05.23 00:04:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Maya Rkell You mean like:
Base speed 300 Mounts 2 MWD (x500% speed)
Current:
(300+(300*5))*5=9000
Proposed:
300+(300*5)+(300*5)=3300
I've been suggesting that for weeks! Heh... Combine with an agility penalty for using MWD's (over and above the current penalties...
Yes, or maybe if they realy think its vital to remove the high speeds form the game, make a second MWD un*****ble. _______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues. |
Richard Gee
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Posted - 2004.05.23 01:56:00 -
[66]
I'm going to reserve my judgement on these changes because there are so many that will affect one another. My only problem with these is the fact that they are considereing releasing them "piecemeal" and not all at once. If they release everything at once I think it'd work better than some now and some later.
Also, you can manuver while using MWD's?! I haven't been able to get my frigates to turn while MWD'ing.
Though I would like to see improvements in AB's and Cruisers at the same time. Never forget, a Jack-of-all-trades is master of none. |
Batmannuel
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Posted - 2004.05.23 02:27:00 -
[67]
The big picture is that CCP is broke from upgrading, so they don't want to upgrade anymore. So how do you solve a problem? **** off a ton of ppls and have them leave and have server running at optiaml efficency again... There ya go.
You loose the ability to fight a bigger and more expensive ships by using a frigate with little to no loss of your own and you start whining... Jesus what is it iwth ppls and their nature to whine when they don't get it their way.
Originally by: Robotek Hybrid
Originally by: Valrandir Upcoming Missile Launcher and MWD changes = G O O D !!
One need to see the whole picture to understand, not only a small part of it depending on how one is playing the game.
then please go right on and tell us exactly what the big picture is.
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Aitrus
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Posted - 2004.05.23 05:09:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Aitrus on 23/05/2004 05:13:25
Originally by: Batmannuel
The big picture is that CCP is broke from upgrading, so they don't want to upgrade anymore. So how do you solve a problem? **** off a ton of ppls and have them leave and have server running at optiaml efficency again... There ya go.
(Deep within the bowels of CCP keep...)
Hellmar: Bah! We have too many subscriptions again! Our servers would run fine if it weren't for those meddlesome kids! Orestes! We must drive off the hordes of subscribing customers! RELEASE TomB! (Maniacal laughter)
TomB: Snarl growl snort growl droooooooool *nerf* snort snort *nocruiseonfrigs* growl snort fart *MWDsuckage* chomp chomp howl *RAVEN BAD*
Hellmar: Yes, TomB! Good work. Look at them, suspending their puny subscriptions. There will be no lag when we play our battleship-flying pirate alts tonite! Quick! To Tranquility!
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I swear, I think this is how some people see CCP working.
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Aehriman
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Posted - 2004.05.23 05:41:00 -
[69]
I have to say I like the changes, and I fly frigates, Rifters to be exact.
With the new tracking speeds and missle agility a frigate will be hard enough to hit without a MWD anyway for anything thats not a frigate class weapon. Why is this good?
Well now a frigate on frigate fight will last longer than it takes to hit web and launch your cruise missles. Thats a bonus in my book. I can still threaten cruisers and with BB's being so common I have something other than enemy frigates to go after. Interceptors might actually have to intercept me with their superior firepower and speed, wow. Cruisers will be hard for a battleship to hit, especially up close. And they can do enough damage in a group of 2 or 3 to do a BS in quickly. Battleships will still be able to launch the most drones, carry the most damaging weapons, and be the only ship to be able to lay and effective siege against the soonish to be released player stations and such. Besides, a battleship is still the fastest way to kill a battleship.
Anyway, I'm rambling. Changes good, not bothering me, and yes I am a frigate and cruiser pilot. Only thing I'd like to see is a second bonus for cruisers and that they make sure the changes to missle agility go in at the same time as the speed changes.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.05.23 05:57:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 23/05/2004 05:59:27
Except the gun frigate would take the cruise missiles (assuing you, sensible, gave it armour) and blow you away with it's guns. Now, you can't do heavy armour or hull damage as before, you do some shield damage. And if he gets close enough fast enough, you can't even do THAT!
As for the rest of what you say, pure speculation on your part.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
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Iluyen
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Posted - 2004.05.23 07:28:00 -
[71]
CCP is killing a fly with a cannon here. Frigates might be slightly overpowered but this could have been easily fixed by not allowing cruise missiles in standard launcher. But no that was to easy so we have this ****.
All the BS except for the amarr will actually have less power if they want to fit the same amount of launchers.
Battleships with MWD's will be ****** because they can be locked in half a sec by a frigates. You give up a sizable amount of cap and shield to have a MWD so you can use speed to your advantage (quicker movement, being harder to hit) and now CCP just cancels almost all the advantages the MWD gives you because they ****** up on the elite frigates.
Elite frigates should have been slower (between a frigate and a cruiser) and easier to target then normal frigates but CCP made them the oposite wich made for a frigate with more offensive power that's even harder to kill.
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2004.05.23 09:36:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Iluyen Battleships with MWD's will be ****** because they can be locked in half a sec by a frigates. You give up a sizable amount of cap and shield to have a MWD so you can use speed to your advantage (quicker movement, being harder to hit) and now CCP just cancels almost all the advantages the MWD gives you because they ****** up on the elite frigates.
I fail to see what difference it will make if a BS can by locked faster by a frig. I mean, they really on their resistance to survivie, and a frig being able to fire it's opening salvo 2 seconds sooner won't change anything.
The only thing that worry me with hte possible MWD nerf is that I tend to use it to turn faster, or to deccelerate more effectively. If they remove that possibility, half hte interest I have toward MWDs is gone.
Originally by: Iluyen
Elite frigates should have been slower (between a frigate and a cruiser) and easier to target then normal frigates but CCP made them the oposite wich made for a frigate with more offensive power that's even harder to kill.
You're joking, right? Interceptors csot about as much than a Tier4 Cruiser, and if you make them slower than other frigs, all you'll obtain will be a severely gimped cruiser, without cruiser sized shields/armor, and above all without cruiser-sized weaponry!
Will you be willing to pay 6 millions for a Tier1 cruiser with only 150 CPU and 40 PowerGrid?
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jukriamrr
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Posted - 2004.05.23 09:46:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Iluyen
Elite frigates should have been slower (between a frigate and a cruiser) and easier to target then normal frigates but CCP made them the oposite wich made for a frigate with more offensive power that's even harder to kill.
No. Interceptors are just an elite frigate class. There are others. Go check EVE insider for more details. Interceptors are currently like they should be: fast, VERY agile, and damn fun to fly. Their only problem is that they pack too much punch against hard targets; they should only slow those down until the cavalry comes. Against softer targets, they are supposed to dispatch them easily; and they make a fine job at it.
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ActiveX
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Posted - 2004.05.23 12:02:00 -
[74]
Hmm...maybe drop a mine behind that uberfrig to kill the Cruise...or Eve forbid use defenders or smartbombs... ____________ Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.05.23 12:24:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Hanns
Only someone who dosent fly interceptors much, thinks locking times are irrelivant, Interceptors make Very good scouts with MWD, being able to move in and out of Camped Gates/stations without even being locked, but ad 500 to your sig, and even a scorp can lock you in a matter of seconds and have you warp scrambled and webbed before u can say "ohh sh1t"
When Speed is removed as your primary defence, your interceptor goes boom boom!
Now tell me locking times are irrelevant
I exclusively fly interceptors unless loot mining .
Actually, the thing that allows you to escape camped stations and camped gates is the supreme manouverability, I've noticed. Being able to turn and get to 80% speed on a dime is what makes interceptors so hard to kill, not the time it takes to lock them. Just don't turn on the mwd when you want to get out
I get your point though, and I need to test the new changes on chaos. Truly test them.
The point of the mwd adjustment was, however, to allow small guns to have a chance of hitting an mwd-ing frigate as opposed to not hitting them. Lock times could have been an oversight. Overall, I'm more in favour of re-instating old lock times =/
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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John McCreedy
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Posted - 2004.05.23 12:27:00 -
[76]
Quote: With the new tracking speeds and missle agility a frigate will be hard enough to hit without a MWD anyway for anything thats not a frigate class weapon. Why is this good?
There is no change to Missile Agility. That's one of the problems.
Make a difference
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Tsual
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Posted - 2004.05.23 12:47:00 -
[77]
It currently feels like we moved from rather modern naval warfar to naval warfare of the 17th century... --------------------------------------
Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life. Ritual of the Qua'nadhar. |
Aehriman
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Posted - 2004.05.23 13:07:00 -
[78]
Originally by: John McCreedy
Quote: With the new tracking speeds and missle agility a frigate will be hard enough to hit without a MWD anyway for anything thats not a frigate class weapon. Why is this good?
There is no change to Missile Agility. That's one of the problems.
There is a planned change to missle agilities coming. What they need to do is wait till that part is done before upping missle speeds. Read all the notes.
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Khe Zen'al'Zar
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Posted - 2004.05.23 13:14:00 -
[79]
i like the change to missiles, as frigates with cruisers just dealt way too much dmg compared to the smaller weapons and the skill training time needed
dunno what i feel about the mwd changes planed tough, if it means im more likely to be hit, i guess its no point for me in training for interceptors if im only gonna loose them to the first missile boat bs i meet
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ZelRox
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Posted - 2004.05.23 14:07:00 -
[80]
I was *****ing about the missile changes when TomB first wrote his post. I got over it. Now my crow will fire Small missiles while orbiting something, not getting instant hits, as taranis or malediction would do. Well at least i can hope to survive long enough for my missiles to catch up.
Not completing the balancing with missiles and drones, and releasing it in a patch, is simply said pure BS. And i dont mean battleship. If i dont engange my mwd, i get wtfpwned by missiles, if i engange my mwd, i can get wtfpwned by heavy drones. I can get wtfpwned eather way by the heavys anyway so... what the h*** am i suposed to do now, except get killed ofcourse.
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I wanna tuc tuc .. |
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DeMundus
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Posted - 2004.05.23 14:29:00 -
[81]
I like the game as it is... new players will get it even harde to co anything in 0.0
/me was gonna be an interceptor pilot but will now start mining in ages for a propper BS -yawn!
/me pets his crow and claw
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DAgandalF
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Posted - 2004.05.28 07:33:00 -
[82]
hate the change, this s**ks
__________________________________________________ Beat me up, scotty
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KR SUN
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Posted - 2004.05.28 10:14:00 -
[83]
Missle type by ship class is a good change. Frigates with cruise are stupid.
But I think that frigs should escape cruise and torps easily and escape heavy missles half of a time. The damn bs should not be able to fit ONE launcher with cruises and fight vs frigs, crusers and bs with no problem. I suggested to introduce a variable "lock/lock loss" on missles, so that missle hit will be a variable on velocity and sig radius as it is a variable for turrets, not just dispatance. Cruise missles if fired on a frig orbiting with high speed should "lose lock" and fly away.
New tracking and hit/miss - good, big guns now really can miss, so they r not better overall option, so this is good balance.
But missles should be adjusted to the new turrets, if you cant have perfect gun for every possible enemy, you should not be able to use one missle and hit them all.
MWD nerf - dont know about numbers, but lets face it mwd is essential and nobrainer, for frigs its just like part of a ship. This is bad, ok, there should be always a tradeoff, right now mwd vs ab... mwd wins 100%. Probably now, if the numbers are right, we will have to think twice then fitting mwd OR ab, not always mwd.
Drones should be fixed asap, they just BROKEN, it should be done before anything new or any balancing of working stuff.
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Krashtest
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Posted - 2004.05.28 11:16:00 -
[84]
Hanns , 1 simple question for you,
Can a 1400 mm fire small or medium ammo , or a 280 arty fire large ammo. This change does make perfect sense , to use correct ammo for the weapon.
I agree it will suck not being able to use heavy missiles or cruise missiles out of any old launcher , but eveyone will be in the same boat.
Your Mega Afocal Pulse Maser I perfectly strikes Asteroid (Veldspar) [R0ME], wrecking for 798.3 damage.
Your 425mm Railgun I perfectly strikes Guardian Captain, wrecking for 685.9 damage.
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