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What do FC's fly?

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Sophine Fortre	Posted - 2008.07.12 23:44:00 - [1] If you were an FC, what should would you bring? What ship choices lend themselves towards an FC position? What ship choices make you, as the FC, a target in a small/mid gang/fleet situation? What things shall do you consider when you fit a ship for FC'ing? Maximum tank, low gank? or do you simply fit the ship as you typically do? Where is your rational behind this? As an FC, do you expect to get primaried? Does the fact that the enemies know that you are an FC effect your ship choice? (ie, will you fly a low priority ship as an FC, in hopes that you wont get hit?) Or do you do the opposite, fly a high priority ship just trying to get shot at? Please, give me your secrets. Feel free to post as alts so you dont give away that you are an FC if you want ^^
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.12 23:45:00 - [2] Arbitrator o/\o
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.07.12 23:47:00 - [3] I'm thinking drake. Not because it's a good ship but because it has a great tank and is never called primary. _______________ CCP Atropos > I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium	Posted - 2008.07.12 23:54:00 - [4] Buffer tanked bs, assume primary always. It's always easiest to remote rep the fc. ________ Originally by: Tarminic I believe your mother should have re-rolled her birth control.
Wayay Bonnylad	Posted - 2008.07.13 00:00:00 - [5] Cloaked cov ops frigate. If he doesn't get shot at he doesn't need to leave the battle.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.13 00:01:00 - [6] Edited by: goodby4u on 13/07/2008 00:02:08 Depends on the size of the gang and how big the FC is in the eve community. Lets say your joe somebody in a fleet battle, you would probably go with a ship that never really gets primaried first or a cov ops(I used scout ships as a FC mainly because its so much easier if YOUR the one looking at the gatecamp your going to break). If your oh say seleene in a fleet battle you have 2 choices, mothership or cov ops. If its a small scale engagement you want to still tilt towards tank if your seleene but if your joe somebody then go for a ship like everybody else. Hope this helps.
steveid All Hallows Eve Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2008.07.13 00:01:00 - [7] broadsword or onyx. They are very hard to kill, very important in fleets and your in control of point / bubble.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.13 00:06:00 - [8] Originally by: steveid broadsword or onyx. They are very hard to kill, very important in fleets and your in control of point / bubble. This aswell but I still recommend a cov ops.... Im tellin ya, its soo valuable to be able to scout yourself instead of asking a lacky whos at the gate. Not to mention you cant shoot what you cant see in eve.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.13 00:07:00 - [9] Good FC's are in Covops, and/or are actually involved in the battle under a different name than Vent/TS. -Liang -- The Universe has a really good firewall. Why else do you think nobody has hacked the Universe yet?
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.13 00:08:00 - [10] Originally by: Liang Nuren Good FC's are in Covops, and/or are actually involved in the battle under a different name than Vent/TS. -Liang Wow good tip liang, I never even thought of that... Though I wasnt really well known and I doubt there were spies...

AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.13 00:13:00 - [11] Yup, certainly depends. If your enemies know who you are, or that you're likely to be FC, you want to have a super huge mega tank (and this is probably not going to save you), or a covert ops. If your enemies don't know who you are, you want a big tank, or fly a ship like the ferox. "Sir, is that a nighthawk?" "No... I think it says.. Ferox. Johnson, are you familiar with this ship?" "I think it's useless sir" "Right, ignore it"
Caffeine Junkie 2 Guys In Motherships	Posted - 2008.07.13 00:19:00 - [12] Assuming you mean the FC as in the guy who is directing the fleet, then covops. If you mean the guy who has the "Fleet Commander" position in the gang hierarchy then I would be in a Fleet Command Ship (the name says it all really!) purely because in combination with good skills (and mindlinks) its the most effective ship for boosting the rest of the gang. There are many places in this game where battles are fought and won, EFT isn't one of them.
Feng Schui Minmatar Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.07.13 00:22:00 - [13] Vigils imho. Project:Gank Pilgrim Guide
Firkragg Blue Labs Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.13 00:23:00 - [14] Yes at first glance cov ops seems like a good idea at first but it has one huge flaw. You cant see enemy hp so you have no idea if your primary is going down or not etc. Thats pretty vital infomation tbh when target calling
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.13 01:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Firkragg Yes at first glance cov ops seems like a good idea at first but it has one huge flaw. You cant see enemy hp so you have no idea if your primary is going down or not etc. Thats pretty vital infomation tbh when target calling Well you surely wouldnt be able to see it if you just got podkilled either. If its a normal sized fleet you wouldnt stumble on ships onless their repping eachother or its a carrier your trying to bring down so its usually a case of if he pops you call the new secondary. If its a small gang under 10 I usually just flew an inty(my point is well needed, could run if im in big enough trouble and can scout ahead like normal.
Noisrevbus Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.07.13 01:46:00 - [16] First off, props for an interesting topic! Secondly, a qoute that i belive put an important piece of this puzzle in focus: Originally by: Caffeine Junkie Assuming you mean the FC as in the guy who is directing the fleet, then covops. If you mean the guy who has the "Fleet Commander" position in the gang hierarchy then I would be in a Fleet Command Ship (the name says it all really!) purely because in combination with good skills (and mindlinks) its the most effective ship for boosting the rest of the gang. See, in theory, the Command ships are the ships for commanders. That sounds a bit obvious and hollow doesn't it? Well, building on what Coffeine Junkie mentioned above; Command ships do not only provide gang bonuses, they also have naturally supertough tanks and little on-site demands beyond that (leaving room for leading). They were built with Command in mind. That's where theory leaves blank for practise though. There are a number of things that doesn't make them ideal to FC in. Not only the mentioned risk of being primaried, but also the mechanics behind how gang boosting work, how the tank (while still very good) may not be good enough in simple comparison from a 'bang for the buck' perspective (as it often entail with tech II ships that don't fit the leading nisches of Nano or Cloak/ECM - in short, alot of tech two cost more than it give, with narrow roles, compared to lesser tech one options): For example, a CS have an incredibly good tank, but it's still not good enough in comparison to cheaper, insurable, BS-options with a wider application - especially not when the 'fleet structure' role can be handled by CS pilots sitting behind POS shields or at a safespot/field repair spot and just manage gang invites, while providing their bonuses at range while someone else FC from a Covops, BS or whatever else has already been mentioned in this thread. Personally, i would love to see a more participating application for the CS, wether that is achieved by buffing them up and/or nerfing certain features that uphold the current situation. Right now, the game mechanics do not let theory apply itself in action.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.13 01:55:00 - [17] Originally by: Noisrevbus First off, props for an interesting topic! Secondly, a qoute that i belive put an important piece of this puzzle in focus: Originally by: Caffeine Junkie Assuming you mean the FC as in the guy who is directing the fleet, then covops. If you mean the guy who has the "Fleet Commander" position in the gang hierarchy then I would be in a Fleet Command Ship (the name says it all really!) purely because in combination with good skills (and mindlinks) its the most effective ship for boosting the rest of the gang. See, in theory, the Command ships are the ships for commanders. That sounds a bit obvious and hollow doesn't it? Well, building on what Coffeine Junkie mentioned above; Command ships do not only provide gang bonuses, they also have naturally supertough tanks and little on-site demands beyond that (leaving room for leading). They were built with Command in mind. That's where theory leaves blank for practise though. There are a number of things that doesn't make them ideal to FC in. Not only the mentioned risk of being primaried, but also the mechanics behind how gang boosting work, how the tank (while still very good) may not be good enough in simple comparison from a 'bang for the buck' perspective (as it often entail with tech II ships that don't fit the leading nisches of Nano or Cloak/ECM - in short, alot of tech two cost more than it give, with narrow roles, compared to lesser tech one options): For example, a CS have an incredibly good tank, but it's still not good enough in comparison to cheaper, insurable, BS-options with a wider application - especially not when the 'fleet structure' role can be handled by CS pilots sitting behind POS shields or at a safespot/field repair spot and just manage gang invites, while providing their bonuses at range while someone else FC from a Covops, BS or whatever else has already been mentioned in this thread. Personally, i would love to see a more participating application for the CS, wether that is achieved by buffing them up and/or nerfing certain features that uphold the current situation. Right now, the game mechanics do not let theory apply itself in action. I agree, its sad really. I would like to see more command modules, more command skills and maybe even a bs sized CS(has very limited weaponry but deliver an awesome tank and a large number of possible command mods). When most people fly CS's(even fleet ones)they usually either dont fit out with ganglinks, or just sit at a SS or pos the entire time with the boat.
Firkragg Blue Labs Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.13 02:04:00 - [18] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Firkragg Yes at first glance cov ops seems like a good idea at first but it has one huge flaw. You cant see enemy hp so you have no idea if your primary is going down or not etc. Thats pretty vital infomation tbh when target calling Well you surely wouldnt be able to see it if you just got podkilled either. If its a normal sized fleet you wouldnt stumble on ships onless their repping eachother or its a carrier your trying to bring down so its usually a case of if he pops you call the new secondary. If its a small gang under 10 I usually just flew an inty(my point is well needed, could run if im in big enough trouble and can scout ahead like normal. So then how exactly are you going to tell if that scorpion you are shooting is ecm fit or has a huge shield buffer designed to waste your time. Seriously you need to be able to monitor your primarys and secondarys in orders to see how your doing. The most important tool to an FC is infomation and this is important info.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.13 02:08:00 - [19] Originally by: Firkragg Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Firkragg Yes at first glance cov ops seems like a good idea at first but it has one huge flaw. You cant see enemy hp so you have no idea if your primary is going down or not etc. Thats pretty vital infomation tbh when target calling Well you surely wouldnt be able to see it if you just got podkilled either. If its a normal sized fleet you wouldnt stumble on ships onless their repping eachother or its a carrier your trying to bring down so its usually a case of if he pops you call the new secondary. If its a small gang under 10 I usually just flew an inty(my point is well needed, could run if im in big enough trouble and can scout ahead like normal. So then how exactly are you going to tell if that scorpion you are shooting is ecm fit or has a huge shield buffer designed to waste your time. Seriously you need to be able to monitor your primarys and secondarys in orders to see how your doing. The most important tool to an FC is infomation and this is important info. I guess this is a matter of perspective. A scorpion fielding a huge tank in a larger fleet battle still falls laughably quickly. Information can be fed to the FC though a variety of routes. Ultimately, while perfect information and 100% surival odds are best, you won't really get both very well. The closest you can get is an alt in a Cov Ops, and you in your normal FC ship. If you do get popped at least you still have your alt, who will certainly have better situational awareness than you will when waiting for your hanger to load.
PirceHat	Posted - 2008.07.13 03:01:00 - [20] FC's generally have a covops alt, and a main in the battle. In large fleet battles generally there are multiple (up to four or five) designated target callers. FC (in large fleet battles) will often not even be calling targets, but rather making tactical decisions. In smaller battles (20v20 fex) a battleship or commandship is nice.

DamienV	Posted - 2008.07.13 03:05:00 - [21] use a pod, because if you are well known, you will be in one shortly! everyone has already said it, cov ops are awesome, use em. For cap ship combat, be in a cap ship, FC needs to always be with the gang.
Sophine Fortre	Posted - 2008.07.13 03:15:00 - [22] lol i try not to make cookie cutter topics Anyhow, it seems that the ship of choice for an actual FC is a cov ops... and I can definatly agree that a cov ops is rather good idea, knowing what the enemies have first hand is agreeably a good deal. But that leaves, who actually moves the fleet from place to place? If the fleet needs to be moved, then who shall be in the position to fleet warp the group? As well, for a small gang I can see how a command ship would work well... The problem becomes, in an incompetent fleet, what happens when they fail at keeping you alive? I am thinking a damnation for this, buffer tanked (with a bit of personal tank)... This seems the ideal idea, given that it can provide gang bonuses and such to the gang while providing a rather nice tank in case of primary, and is able to touch stuff with heavy missiles... not much dps, but it gets you on the mail.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.13 03:19:00 - [23] Edited by: goodby4u on 13/07/2008 03:21:03 Edited by: goodby4u on 13/07/2008 03:19:51 Originally by: Sophine Fortre lol i try not to make cookie cutter topics Anyhow, it seems that the ship of choice for an actual FC is a cov ops... and I can definatly agree that a cov ops is rather good idea, knowing what the enemies have first hand is agreeably a good deal. But that leaves, who actually moves the fleet from place to place? If the fleet needs to be moved, then who shall be in the position to fleet warp the group? As well, for a small gang I can see how a command ship would work well... The problem becomes, in an incompetent fleet, what happens when they fail at keeping you alive? I am thinking a damnation for this, buffer tanked (with a bit of personal tank)... This seems the ideal idea, given that it can provide gang bonuses and such to the gang while providing a rather nice tank in case of primary, and is able to touch stuff with heavy missiles... not much dps, but it gets you on the mail. You or your second in command warps the gang(depending if you have an alt or not)..... Or if you wish instead of scouting a couple jumps ahead you move with the fleet and just jump through first to check the other side. And do you even need to ask what would happen if your fleet fails to keep you alive? Also this would be easier if we knew the ballpark of what size fleets your talking about.... IE would you be listening to this when your flying along?
Sophine Fortre	Posted - 2008.07.13 04:05:00 - [24] lets see...I dont have an alt, yet... And you make good points, if the fleet cant keep the fc alive then your screwed anyhow. I will be starting with small gangs (to teach myself mostly, i need to get myself acquainted with the finer points of FCing before I am allowed to command larger gangs)... also, I dont currently have a corp with large enough numbers to let me FC... might be joining a such corp soon, hopefully. But yea, smallish (5 members maybe? lol), then hopefully more like 20 (might go back go FW and /try/ to get those idiots to make a proper gang, but meh, at that point it doesnt really matter what I fly). But yea, I really need a good corp ^^
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.13 04:10:00 - [25] Edited by: goodby4u on 13/07/2008 04:14:07 Originally by: Sophine Fortre lets see...I dont have an alt, yet... And you make good points, if the fleet cant keep the fc alive then your screwed anyhow. I will be starting with small gangs (to teach myself mostly, i need to get myself acquainted with the finer points of FCing before I am allowed to command larger gangs)... also, I dont currently have a corp with large enough numbers to let me FC... might be joining a such corp soon, hopefully. But yea, smallish (5 members maybe? lol), then hopefully more like 20 (might go back go FW and /try/ to get those idiots to make a proper gang, but meh, at that point it doesnt really matter what I fly). But yea, I really need a good corp ^^ Id fly a battleship with only 5 members, above 20 start worrying about your own safety. Oh and also, if this is going to be your first time FCing your going to fail, trust me either you wont get any action or get blown up(ie my first on I purposely jumped out 20 man cruiser gang into a 60+ smashkill gang because we were so bored). Most people hated it, but with the heavy metal I was blearing I couldnt hear their screams.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.13 04:24:00 - [26] Edited by: Lance Fighter on 13/07/2008 04:24:32 Wrong thread, oops.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.13 05:48:00 - [27] Originally by: goodby4u Id fly a battleship with only 5 members, above 20 start worrying about your own safety. Oh and also, if this is going to be your first time FCing your going to fail, trust me either you wont get any action or get blown up(ie my first on I purposely jumped out 20 man cruiser gang into a 60+ smashkill gang because we were so bored). Most people hated it, but with the heavy metal I was blearing I couldnt hear their screams. This man speaks the truth. -Liang -- The Universe has a really good firewall. Why else do you think nobody has hacked the Universe yet?
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.07.13 07:40:00 - [28] Originally by: Wayay Bonnylad Cloaked cov ops frigate. If he doesn't get shot at he doesn't need to leave the battle. This. --- Its dead, Jim.
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.13 08:13:00 - [29] "Good FCs" are made great through good scouts, proper fleet setups etc... A properly fitted Gang with 50+ BSs will pop another BS within 10sec. It's not actually not "mandatory" to lock the primary yourself in order to "feel the battle". What good FCing needs, is mutual trust between him, his scouts and each and every gang member (wow - that was deep ) The good FC cares to bring the Victory for the fleet under it's command, not to survive in his Cov Ops and slow-boat back to base cloaked alone... Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game!
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.07.13 08:16:00 - [30] Originally by: Diomidis The good FC cares to bring the Victory for the fleet under it's command, not to survive in his Cov Ops and slow-boat back to base cloaked alone... Its not about being afraid of losing the ship, its about being there for the full battle to give orders. --- Its dead, Jim.



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