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Slinkus Gallentus
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Posted - 2008.07.13 14:49:00 -
[1]
Why the hell are we not allowed to shoot them?
Is this a PvP game or not? If I shoot a rat then the results of his demise belong to me. The salvage belongs to me. If someone comes along and tries to salvage it then I should be allowed to shoot them.
As the system stands it allows people to steal freely. That's frankly pathetic.
CCP, sort this out as the current way is rubbish and non-sensical. If someone comes along and salvages a wreck that is clearly marked as beloning to me then I should be able to kill them without concord interfering.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.07.13 14:51:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus The salvage belongs to me.
This is where you are wrong. Oh, and... /hug -------- Ideas for: Mining |
justsometrader
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Posted - 2008.07.13 14:52:00 -
[3]
you realise when it is weekend
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Asestorian
Domination.
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Posted - 2008.07.13 14:53:00 -
[4]
Salvage doesn't belong to you, therefore you don't get to shoot people who salvage it. They aren't stealing anything.
---
Quote: EVE is unfair by design.
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Gealbhan
Caldari Infernal Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.07.13 15:00:00 -
[5]
Salvage: To collect discarded or refused material.
Wrecks are not property, the modules left inside are though. The people that go around salvaging wrecks are actually helping to control lag, they're like those little fish that clean the fish tank for you.
Don't hate, appreciate.
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Mankirks Wife
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Posted - 2008.07.13 15:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus Why the hell are we not allowed to shoot them?
You can, just mission in lowsec, or 0.0 if you're worried about your sec rating.
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Casino Alkasar
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.13 15:32:00 -
[7]
salvage rules are fine,
another feature that makes people interact.
and im a mission runner _________________ itze mine Rock¦n roll |
Shar'Tuk TheHated
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Posted - 2008.07.13 15:41:00 -
[8]
,___. {O,o} /)__) -"-"- ohRLY?
DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale!
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES! |
bluebeyond
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2008.07.13 15:43:00 -
[9]
Salvage whine No. 2,385,012
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Andrymeda
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Posted - 2008.07.13 15:56:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Andrymeda on 13/07/2008 15:56:05 I can certainly understand your viewpoint. After all, we do have flagging for cans. However, a wreck by definition is something available for anyone to take. ;-)
Anyone who comes across it can salvage a wreck. Its that way in RL too.
I'd be annoyed at someone taking "my" wrecks too. But it is a wreck and abandoned, thus open to salvage. ----------- Amused pilot |
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Armoured C
Gallente The Aztecs Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.07.13 15:58:00 -
[11]
by making this whine you have instantly made it 100% worst as everyone is going to do it soon =P
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.13 17:16:00 -
[12]
You might be interested in this comment by CCP Faolchu:
Quote:
This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
It isn't your stuff, and since it has "no value" concord doesn't respond.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
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Dotard
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.07.13 17:25:00 -
[13]
Well, Slinkus, I, for one, agree and believe you should be able to shoot me for jackin' with the wrecks.
So, I hereby promise if it is I, Dotard, that invades your mission to sully the wrecks I shall take any lootz found within to ensure you that kill right.
Fair 'nuff?
--------------- Nerf You! Buff Me!
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2008.07.13 18:10:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Marlenus on 13/07/2008 18:12:03 Not yours. Thus, no theft.
Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecksą. This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you wonĘt always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesnĘt matter who just blew it up.
(This quote is kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
kyoukoku
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Posted - 2008.07.13 18:29:00 -
[15]
troll. fail. refer to sig Ninja Salvaging ain't stealing
from desusig.crumplecorn.com |
Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
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Posted - 2008.07.13 18:39:00 -
[16]
Since starting playing Eve again (when I last played all you got from wrecks was loot) I've always assumed that the salvage "laws" are similar to maritime salvage laws in that the wreck isn't the property of anyone until someone boards it (in Eve's case: until someone uses a salvager on it).
What does strike me as odd is that looting the wreck gives kill rights - surely the modules/cargo are part of the wreck under salvage laws?
*waits for flame*
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.07.13 18:44:00 -
[17]
Intact modules probably fall under spoils of war, while the remainder of the wreck is non-functional and as such not classified as a lootable object.
(translate it into lawspeak yourself if you dare) -------- Ideas for: Mining |
Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar Pragmatics
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Posted - 2008.07.13 18:51:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Elysarian What does strike me as odd is that looting the wreck gives kill rights - surely the modules/cargo are part of the wreck under salvage laws?
Can flagging was brought about because of endless whines by miners. I assume that loot flagging arrived at the same time, through the same mechanism, but my memory is useless.
The moral of this tale? Don't let the endless whines by mission runners bring about some sort of salvage flagging mechanic.
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Khlitouris RegusII
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Posted - 2008.07.13 18:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus Why the hell are we not allowed to shoot them?
Is this a PvP game or not? If I shoot a rat then the results of his demise belong to me. The salvage belongs to me. If someone comes along and tries to salvage it then I should be allowed to shoot them.
As the system stands it allows people to steal freely. That's frankly pathetic.
CCP, sort this out as the current way is rubbish and non-sensical. If someone comes along and salvages a wreck that is clearly marked as beloning to me then I should be able to kill them without concord interfering.
Probably because salvaging isn't stealing.
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Joe Starbreaker
AnTi. Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.07.13 19:26:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus If someone comes along and salvages a wreck that is clearly marked as beloning to me then I should be able to kill them without concord interfering.
LOL are you running missions in high-sec? That's your problem.
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Slinkus Gallentus
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Posted - 2008.07.14 00:24:00 -
[21]
The point you seem to be missing is that the wreck don't exist unless I blow the ship up. ie. I expend my isk destroying the ship and the wreck therefore belongs to me. It simply would not be a wreck unless I turn it into one.
If someone comes along and salvages my wrecks then he is stealing from me. I spent the isk making the wreck and it should be up to me if I want to recover some of that expense from salvaging the ship. Not for any Thomas, Richard or Harrison to invade my mish and help themselves without fear of repercussion.
The whole point of forums is to campaign for change and that's what I am campaigning for.
You want to salvage? Then blow your own ships up and salvage them. If you dont want to do that and want to salvage wrecks that you didnt make, then you should be open to consequences, not a free lunch at someone else's expense.
It doesn't happen to me often, but the thing that really annoys me is if the thief asked if I wanted the wrecks then I would probably let them have them unless I have a requirement for them. THAT is interaction. The current system just causes people to create flame wars in local.
Someone mentioned lag and how these people are doing us a favour. Well, do ME a favour! The problem of LAG is CCPs problem. I, as a user, expect the system to be working as is desribed by the EULA. If it dont then it needs fixing by CCP not by fluke chance of salvage thief.
Someone pointed to real life maritime laws. Who gives a toss? This is not real life. It does not have to mimic real life.
Someone quoted a GM - so what? It is their point of view I seek to change. Without people campaigning for a change it won't happen.
Someone said salvage whine thread #12219823476 or whatever. If you dont like these threads you don't have to read them. The fact that you took the time to comment shows one of two things which I won't elucidate on. I might get banned!
I say, salvaging wrecks that you didn't make should be a chance you take that might end up with you losing your ship.
It would create more opportunity for PvP!
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Slinkus Gallentus
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Posted - 2008.07.14 00:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: justsometrader you realise when it is weekend
Because you're on, you mean?
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Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.07.14 01:00:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus I expend my isk destroying the ship
…and you already get compensated for that.
There are three rewards, each with it's own level of competition:
1. Bounty – automatically yours, and yours alone. 2. Loot – others can fight you for it. 3. Salvage – others can race you for it.
Why is it so hard to just be the first one to salvage? If you created the wreck, you're already on the scene, closer to it than anyone else – you already have every advantage you could possibly need.
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Corduroy Rab
Xenocidal Uprising
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Posted - 2008.07.14 01:02:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus The point you seem to be missing is that the wreck don't exist unless I blow the ship up. ie. I expend my isk destroying the ship and the wreck therefore belongs to me. It simply would not be a wreck unless I turn it into one.
If you go and cut down a tree and haul it off that tree is yours. The wreck is more like the left over stump and roots of the tree which do not become yours unless you do something further. For them to become yours you need to dig them up and haul them off, this is salvaging. Since a further transformation on the resource needs to be performed the possible results of that transformation cannot be considered yours until you perform them.
Quote: my mish and help themselves without fear of repercussion.
Much like many things in this game, and in particular mission running, risk and reward have nothing to do with it.
Quote:
The whole point of forums is to campaign for change and that's what I am campaigning for.
Fair enough, however...
Quote:
Someone said salvage whine thread #12219823476 or whatever. If you dont like these threads you don't have to read them. The fact that you took the time to comment shows one of two things which I won't elucidate on. I might get banned!
he is right that there are already tons of these threads and what you have posted has not added anything that has not already been said elsewhere. The forums can become cluttered easily and reopening the same topic in another thread is most of the problem. You could have supported a change in the salvage system more responsibly by posting your support in one of the many existing threads.
Quote:
Someone pointed to real life maritime laws. Who gives a toss? This is not real life. It does not have to mimic real life.
Very true, the game system doesn't have to mimic real life. However, you and the people arguing opposite you are arguing about a system mostly on normative grounds. As a result it is totally appropriate to cite how a similar situation, be it in the real world or not, handle these same value judgments.
Quote:
It doesn't happen to me often, but the thing that really annoys me is if the thief asked if I wanted the wrecks then I would probably let them have them unless I have a requirement for them. THAT is interaction. The current system just causes people to create flame wars in local.
If that is truly how you feel perhaps you should make an effort to be nice and accommodating to these salvages? When they come to your mission great them and have a friendly chat? Perhaps if you were nice they wouldn't bother you?
Quote:
It would create more opportunity for PvP!
Since you seem to despise negative interaction and "flame wars in local" this doesn't make sense. If anything you will have more, as people stop loosing a couple alloyed trit bars and start losing mission running ships. But if you don't mind mission runners getting ganked by "salvage flippers" more power to ya.
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Stormwind Bloodfeather
Minmatar Sogdian Traders Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.14 03:30:00 -
[25]
simple to fix. Run an alt... Have alt fitted with salvagers and tractors. use main to own mission, alt to salvage. If your unable to multi-task in this manner, get a friend or corp-mate to do so for you and split the rewards from it.
It works well.
Storm In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy! |
MineralOel Steuer
Amarr OP EC
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Posted - 2008.07.14 04:12:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus
Is this a PvP game or not?
yes it is. So why are you mission w*horing in Empire Space?
The only numbers I care about are 3-2-1-launch.. |
Soulita
Gallente Inner Core
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Posted - 2008.07.14 04:16:00 -
[27]
Meh, yeah.
Not that I realy care, but I guess it would be good to be allowed to shoot em thieves.
Being allowed to shoot stuff is good. Blinky stuff is good.
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Mika Meroko
Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.07.14 05:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: MineralOel Steuer
Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus
Is this a PvP game or not?
yes it is. So why are you mission w*horing in Empire Space?
Ding Ding! K.O.!!!! K.O,!!!!
Nice =P
but yeah, Eve is a sandbox that allow pvp... pvp being competition between players, not necessary pew pew...
in the salvaging in highsec thing.. is a race to the salvage!
Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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Hieronimus Rex
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Posted - 2008.07.14 06:04:00 -
[29]
It's really funny that part of the reason CCP removed salvage flagging was because of whiners saying they got ganked when they salvaged a wreck that they didn't create.
WHINERS VS. WHINERS WHO WILL WIN!?
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Slinkus Gallentus
Gallente S.T.D. Productions presents....
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Posted - 2008.07.15 04:04:00 -
[30]
Originally by: MineralOel Steuer
Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus
Is this a PvP game or not?
yes it is. So why are you mission w*horing in Empire Space?
I see, so on your planet mission running and pvp cant happen?
cheers
"Life is not one big joke. Life is 40,000 little jokes all lined up" |
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