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Dear CCP.........Empire suicide gankers: It's getting out of hand.

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ArchAngel Illibrium	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:40:00 - [1] Over the past 6 months, i lost 1.7b in assets to suicide gankers. I did learn and am using a scout to ensure i will not run into an empire suicide gank on a gate. But.......it is getting out of hand. To do 13 jumps with a freighter, moving bs's, Pos fuel and such, i need at least 7 days. CCP!!! please give us the tools to counter these suicide attacks or encrease the amount of damage Concord and sentry guns can inflict in empire. Maybe create a possibility to put a tank on a freighter. (I posted with an alt for safety reasons).
ArchAngel Illibrium	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:40:00 - [2] Over the past 6 months, i lost 1.7b in assets to suicide gankers. I did learn and am using a scout to ensure i will not run into an empire suicide gank on a gate. But.......it is getting out of hand. To do 13 jumps with a freighter, moving bs's, Pos fuel and such, i need at least 7 days. CCP!!! please give us the tools to counter these suicide attacks or encrease the amount of damage Concord and sentry guns can inflict in empire. Maybe create a possibility to put a tank on a freighter. (I posted with an alt for safety reasons).
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:42:00 - [3] Imagine, it takes effort to move billions of ISK worth of assets. - DesuSigs
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:42:00 - [4] Imagine, it takes effort to move billions of ISK worth of assets. - DesuSigs
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:47:00 - [5] Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Over the past 6 months, i lost 1.7b in assets to suicide gankers. I did learn and am using a scout to ensure i will not run into an empire suicide gank on a gate. But.......it is getting out of hand. To do 13 jumps with a freighter, moving bs's, Pos fuel and such, i need at least 7 days. CCP!!! please give us the tools to counter these suicide attacks or encrease the amount of damage Concord and sentry guns can inflict in empire. Maybe create a possibility to put a tank on a freighter. (I posted with an alt for safety reasons). You are lying your ass off. It is not worth ganking a freighter if it has 2 Billion ISK or bellow in the hold. Simple math and game mechanic. Especially now since CCP did boost CONCORD where they jam the hell out of drones as well. So, if you lost 1.7 Billion ISK, it was not in a freighter over "6 months" You were an idiot and hauled stuff in T1 Indies most likely - or better yet, and more sensible reason would be - is that you are trolling, and trying to inflame an issue. It is certainly clear with your 1.7 Billion Lost/6 Months/Freighter deal.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:47:00 - [6] Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Over the past 6 months, i lost 1.7b in assets to suicide gankers. I did learn and am using a scout to ensure i will not run into an empire suicide gank on a gate. But.......it is getting out of hand. To do 13 jumps with a freighter, moving bs's, Pos fuel and such, i need at least 7 days. CCP!!! please give us the tools to counter these suicide attacks or encrease the amount of damage Concord and sentry guns can inflict in empire. Maybe create a possibility to put a tank on a freighter. (I posted with an alt for safety reasons). You are lying your ass off. It is not worth ganking a freighter if it has 2 Billion ISK or bellow in the hold. Simple math and game mechanic. Especially now since CCP did boost CONCORD where they jam the hell out of drones as well. So, if you lost 1.7 Billion ISK, it was not in a freighter over "6 months" You were an idiot and hauled stuff in T1 Indies most likely - or better yet, and more sensible reason would be - is that you are trolling, and trying to inflame an issue. It is certainly clear with your 1.7 Billion Lost/6 Months/Freighter deal.
Robert Rosenberg Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:50:00 - [7] FYI even though low-sec is empire you are not protected by concord.
ArchAngel Illibrium	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:50:00 - [8] Originally by: Crumplecorn Imagine, it takes effort to move billions of ISK worth of assets. True, and i know it takes effort, but it is getting even worse. I am not a trader, i run for my corp and alliance, so i do not gain isk from these activities (in fact losing isk), but still we should be able for some sort of defence against these gankers looking for easy isk.
Robert Rosenberg Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:50:00 - [9] FYI even though low-sec is empire you are not protected by concord.
ArchAngel Illibrium	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:50:00 - [10] Originally by: Crumplecorn Imagine, it takes effort to move billions of ISK worth of assets. True, and i know it takes effort, but it is getting even worse. I am not a trader, i run for my corp and alliance, so i do not gain isk from these activities (in fact losing isk), but still we should be able for some sort of defence against these gankers looking for easy isk.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:52:00 - [11] Edited by: Jinx Barker on 14/07/2008 08:52:20 Originally by: Robert Rosenberg FYI even though low-sec is empire you are not protected by concord. If the OP is talking about Low-Sec losses, than it does not fall under even broadest of "suicide ganking whines." Since there is nothing suicidal about attacking a ship in Low Security Empire, and there is no CONCORD response in the matter.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:52:00 - [12] Edited by: Jinx Barker on 14/07/2008 08:52:20 Originally by: Robert Rosenberg FYI even though low-sec is empire you are not protected by concord. If the OP is talking about Low-Sec losses, than it does not fall under even broadest of "suicide ganking whines." Since there is nothing suicidal about attacking a ship in Low Security Empire, and there is no CONCORD response in the matter.
Jennai The Greater Goon	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:55:00 - [13] Originally by: Jinx Barker Since there is nothing suicidal about attacking a ship in Low Security Empire, and there is no CONCORD response in the matter. it is when you forget where you are and get your ceptor instapopped by the sentries, but that doesn't really count because it wasn't intended to be a suicide.
Jennai The Greater Goon	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:55:00 - [14] Originally by: Jinx Barker Since there is nothing suicidal about attacking a ship in Low Security Empire, and there is no CONCORD response in the matter. it is when you forget where you are and get your ceptor instapopped by the sentries, but that doesn't really count because it wasn't intended to be a suicide.
Taradis Amarr The Imperial Assassins	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:56:00 - [15] Some people need to get a real job PEOPLE suicide ganking is not a JOB!!!!! Bein a prostitute in Eve is more of a job than suicide ganking! Tips to avoid suicide gankers Never auto thru known ganking areas and always warp to 0 do not engage that person yeesh same thing happend to a buddy of mine I told him the same damn thing.... He was auto afk which is by all means DUMB!!!! k their said my peace
Taradis Amarr The Imperial Assassins	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:56:00 - [16] Some people need to get a real job PEOPLE suicide ganking is not a JOB!!!!! Bein a prostitute in Eve is more of a job than suicide ganking! Tips to avoid suicide gankers Never auto thru known ganking areas and always warp to 0 do not engage that person yeesh same thing happend to a buddy of mine I told him the same damn thing.... He was auto afk which is by all means DUMB!!!! k their said my peace
ArchAngel Illibrium	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:58:00 - [17] Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Over the past 6 months, i lost 1.7b in assets to suicide gankers. I did learn and am using a scout to ensure i will not run into an empire suicide gank on a gate. But.......it is getting out of hand. To do 13 jumps with a freighter, moving bs's, Pos fuel and such, i need at least 7 days. CCP!!! please give us the tools to counter these suicide attacks or encrease the amount of damage Concord and sentry guns can inflict in empire. Maybe create a possibility to put a tank on a freighter. (I posted with an alt for safety reasons). You are lying your ass off. It is not worth ganking a freighter if it has 2 Billion ISK or bellow in the hold. Simple math and game mechanic. Especially now since CCP did boost CONCORD where they jam the hell out of drones as well. So, if you lost 1.7 Billion ISK, it was not in a freighter over "6 months" You were an idiot and hauled stuff in T1 Indies most likely - or better yet, and more sensible reason would be - is that you are trolling, and trying to inflame an issue. It is certainly clear with your 1.7 Billion Lost/6 Months/Freighter deal. Hmm did i say i lost a freighter? There is lots of people moving stuff in t1 haulers, thats what they are there for. Also I am not trolling, I just get ****ed of to dock my freighter every 1 jump. Btw Could it be you are 1 of those nice suicide gankers????
Jennai The Greater Goon	Posted - 2008.07.14 08:59:00 - [18] Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Hmm did i say i lost a freighter? There is lots of people moving stuff in t1 haulers, thats what they are there for. Also I am not trolling, I just get ****ed of to dock my freighter every 1 jump. Btw Could it be you are 1 of those nice suicide gankers???? if you keep getting suicided in T1 haulers then maybe you should use a DST or something instead
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.07.14 09:00:00 - [19] Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium True, and i know it takes effort, but it is getting even worse. I am not a trader, i run for my corp and alliance, so i do not gain isk from these activities (in fact losing isk) That you are doing the runs for someone else has no bearing on anything. Except, perhaps, that your corp should find someone else to move its stuff. - DesuSigs
Armoured C Gallente The Aztecs Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.07.14 09:02:00 - [20] what more do you want..... concord have been beefed up before, warp to zero , drone damage nuffified, scouts for alts
Euriti Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.07.14 09:05:00 - [21] I used to suicide gank and if you take certain safety measures then it is nigh impossible to get ganked.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.14 09:07:00 - [22] Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Hmm did i say i lost a freighter? There is lots of people moving stuff in t1 haulers, thats what they are there for. Also I am not trolling, I just get ****ed of to dock my freighter every 1 jump. Btw Could it be you are 1 of those nice suicide gankers???? I have been around the block, I have suicided ships, and I have been a target of a "suicide gank" However, when I suicided ships, I spend hours picking a mark, usually good laden shuttles with invention BPCs with Marauders, and my trusty Caracal. When I was a target of a suicide gank I had 3 Billion ISK worth of mods in my ship, and it was tanked, well tanked, I survived. You are obviously have no idea when you are talking about suicide ganking, especially since you seem to be so scared shitless and out of your small mind that you have to dock your damn freighter in EMPIRE of all places every other time. So, I will repeat again: Do not carry more than 2 Billion ISK in your freighter, and you can AFK all you want, because no sensible "suicide ganking camp" will engage a freighter with 2 Billion ISK or less in the hold. There is NO PROFIT IN IT, especially if one takes into account that part of the cargo wont survive. Of course, they could blow you up just for shits and giggles, but it is rare, since everyone here is to make profit. Finally, read your original post, and edit it, if you do not want people to misinterpret you - since you certainly made it sound like you lost 1.7 Billion over 6 months with a freighter, which is plain damn weird.
Ralara Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2008.07.14 09:11:00 - [23] Edited by: Ralara on 14/07/2008 09:12:12 Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Hmm did i say i lost a freighter? There is lots of people moving stuff in t1 haulers, thats what they are there for. Also I am not trolling, I just get **ed of to dock my freighter every 1 jump. Btw Could it be you are 1 of those nice suicide gankers???? http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=341 Quote: Should I not be safe from attacks in high security zones? In the universe of EVE, no space is 100% safe. It is vital for every player to realize this as soon as possible after starting playing the game. Kamikaze attacks Despite the lack of absolute safety, empire space is still relatively safe. The biggest threat to the average player in Empire space is the risk of ôkamikazeö attacks when carrying a cargo of noteworthy value. Just like on modern day earth, the risk of attack rises with the amount of money sticking out of your pockets. If attacking you becomes a lucrative enough option, the best of neighbourhoods may become unsafe for you to walk around in. Some players are willing to lose ships and their good standing with Concord for the hope of quick profit from a juicy loot drop. The ôkamikazeö attackers usually work in pairs or groups. They scan the cargo holds of bypassing pilots flying easily destructable ships until they see something worthy of a ship loss. They then blow up the ship and and while Concord do what they do best, a second character picks up the loot from the shipÆs wreck. This is not seen as an exploit of the intended game mechanics and there is no compensation or reimbursement to be had for losses caused by attacks in secure space.** Tech 1 haulers are NOT meant to be carrying around 1.7 billion isk of stuff in them. Use a Blockade Runner or Deep Space transport or a Freighter. --
Riho Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.07.14 09:18:00 - [24] i love ppl carrying lots of expencive stuff in t1 haulers :D stupid ppl get whats coming :D i haul over a billions worth of stuff every week in my t2 transports. have not been ganked yet as they are fast, carry quite abit and also have 2 points of warp immunity. ---------------------------------- Fighting for Minmatar o7 Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
Gold Rogers Solitude Empires OWN Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.14 09:27:00 - [25] Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium I did learn and am using a scout to ensure i will not run into an empire suicide gank on a gate. Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium I am not a trader, i run for my corp and alliance, so i do not gain isk from these activities (in fact losing isk), but still we should be able for some sort of defence against these gankers looking for easy isk. Since you move stuff for your corp and alliance get them to escort / scout instead of doing it yourself? Or better yet split the load with them, surely you aren't the only one that can move things. ---------
Ralara Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2008.07.14 09:28:00 - [26] Originally by: Gold Rogers Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium I did learn and am using a scout to ensure i will not run into an empire suicide gank on a gate. Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium I am not a trader, i run for my corp and alliance, so i do not gain isk from these activities (in fact losing isk), but still we should be able for some sort of defence against these gankers looking for easy isk. Since you move stuff for your corp and alliance get them to escort / scout instead of doing it yourself? Or better yet split the load with them, surely you aren't the only one that can move things. No just get rid of suicide gankers it's easier that way. --
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.14 09:29:00 - [27] removing insurance in case of death by Concord will sure solve a lot of problems :) tbh i dont even see the logic here....you're breaking the law (as in killing innocent people)...but you get payed by an insurance company while doing it ? :)
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.14 09:32:00 - [28] Originally by: gavhriel removing insurance in case of death by Concord will sure solve a lot of problems :) tbh i dont even see the logic here....you're breaking the law (as in killing innocent people)...but you get payed by an insurance company while doing it ? :) Again, Removal of insurance is the sensible thing to do. That is the ONLY solution that should be out there. We should not remove suicide ganking, just make use of common sense when approaching the issue, thats all.
Ralara Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2008.07.14 09:34:00 - [29] Originally by: gavhriel removing insurance in case of death by Concord will sure solve a lot of problems :) tbh i dont even see the logic here....you're breaking the law (as in killing innocent people)...but you get payed by an insurance company while doing it ? :) I agree, I've said it before, I'll say it again, not that CCP will listen. I have the best idea in Eve for suicide ganking. It wont stop it but it will stop people whinging about insurance. If a ship is destroyed by concord and that ship has destroyed another ship in the last 45 seconds, then they get no insurance payout. If a ship is destroyed by concord and that ship has not destroyed another ship in the last 45 seconds, then they get an insurance payout. Since the AI can't tell what's a suicide gank and what's accidently firing on someone, this solves it. If the ship was destroyed, then it was intended for that ship to die, right? That being the case, no insurance. If the ship wasn't killed, perhaps it was accidental and therefore, insurance. "But failed suicide gankers will get their insurance back!!!!!!!" Yes, yes they will. Since there's no way to tell what's a suicide gank and what isn't, this is the best I can come up with. It wont eliminate suicide ganking at all because you'll still get muppets like the OP who fly around with 1.7 billion isk in a Badger II and it'll be worth the between 20 and 100m isk it costs to outfit a suicide ship. But at least they can't whine about insurance :)) --
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.14 09:37:00 - [30] Edited by: Andrue on 14/07/2008 09:39:26 Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Originally by: Crumplecorn Imagine, it takes effort to move billions of ISK worth of assets. True, and i know it takes effort, but it is getting even worse. I am not a trader, i run for my corp and alliance, so i do not gain isk from these activities (in fact losing isk), but still we should be able for some sort of defence against these gankers looking for easy isk. I agree. A corp and/or alliance should be able to organise safe passage for a haulage op. Luckily they can. All they need is intelligence and organisation. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.14 09:38:00 - [31] Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: gavhriel removing insurance in case of death by Concord will sure solve a lot of problems :) tbh i dont even see the logic here....you're breaking the law (as in killing innocent people)...but you get payed by an insurance company while doing it ? :) Again, Removal of insurance is the sensible thing to do. That is the ONLY solution that should be out there. We should not remove suicide ganking, just make use of common sense when approaching the issue, thats all. very true. suicide ganking adds realism to the game ... and fun. but when you can suicide a deadspace fitted marauder in 0.5 with only 5 or 6 battleships and your entire gang only loses about 200 mil isk ....
Guillight BLue Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.14 09:46:00 - [32] Originally by: Gold Rogers Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium I did learn and am using a scout to ensure i will not run into an empire suicide gank on a gate. Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium I am not a trader, i run for my corp and alliance, so i do not gain isk from these activities (in fact losing isk), but still we should be able for some sort of defence against these gankers looking for easy isk. Since you move stuff for your corp and alliance get them to escort / scout instead of doing it yourself? Or better yet split the load with them, surely you aren't the only one that can move things. The whole problem in this matter is, that the whole suicide ganking is one-way favoring. Favoring towards the gankers! As victim you are completely helpless and can't do a thing about it. You can't defend yourself, you can't retaliate and escorts are completely useless as even if they blow up your hauler, the escort ships can only watch see it happen as they cannot intervine and pop the suicide ganker, without getting popped by CONCORD yourself and suffer a hit on your sec status! Thats why the whole Suicide Ganking can be seen as a lame abuse of game mechanics. Just removing Insurance payout isn't gonna help a thing. As suicide gankers use T1 ships anyway and those are cheap. The little insurance payout they get and thus removing it won't stop them at all. A good solution against Suicide gankers to me is the following: A hauler / transporter forms a gang with escort buddies and the moment a suicide ganker takes a lock on the hauler and starts firing, EVERYONE in the hauler's gang gets permission to attack the Suicide ganker without getting flagged by CONCORD and taking a sec hit. I personally think that everyone that commits a hostile act on an innocent in High Sec should be insta PVP flagged, so everyone is allowed to attack him/her! See it as performing a civil duty in favor of CONCORD by aiding them in High Sec space. As why would (for example) a suicide ganker commiting a crime being any different than the average rat operating in High Sec space? Cheers
Ralara Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2008.07.14 10:23:00 - [33] Originally by: Guillight BLue A hauler / transporter forms a gang with escort buddies and the moment a suicide ganker takes a lock on the hauler and starts firing, EVERYONE in the hauler's gang gets permission to attack the Suicide ganker without getting flagged by CONCORD and taking a sec hit. Yes and then in missions youc ould have an Ibis come to someone's wreck, steal from it, the faction CNR kills the ibis and as it's doing that, 15 ships warp in with kill rights on the raven --
Armoured C Gallente The Aztecs Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.07.14 10:50:00 - [34] they can defend themselves once you hit f1-f8 to suidie gank then they are globally flagged it just you own bloody fault if you going by yourself in a freighter humm they see if you had say BC squad with a onerios for a obelisk if you donlt value you cargo enough to protect it then you deserve to loose it
Nathvas	Posted - 2008.07.14 10:56:00 - [35] actually they can. fly the cheap logicistical crusiers like the gallente exoquor or other ones. There is no concord for armor reping or sheid reping some one. at least not to my knowledge.
Plave Okice Universal Securities	Posted - 2008.07.14 11:00:00 - [36] Insurance won't have any impact, I stopped kamikaze robberies (my preferred term for it, suicide gank sounds so ugly ) quite simply because I made so much isk from it I'll never need any more. I wouldn't have cared if insurance payouts were removed, I would have done every single hit again, whether losing my brutix cost me 7 mill after insurance or 30 mill with insurance wouldn't have made a difference, in fact, I would have actually ganked more people to make up the extra isk. All removing insurance will do is penalise genuine noobs, it won't stop or lessen kamikazes. It has got tougher to do, because people have become more aware how to counter it (it's so easy to counter if you have a brain it's pathetic, those who get ganked are the lazy, nothing more). CCP have stated on numerous occasions they feel it's a valid part of the gameplay, going so far as to say so even in their meagre documentation. Personally I'll just stay amused at the victims periodically appearing to whine about it, you don't need to change the game to avoid it, you just need to not be so lazy. It's your own fault. Would you like to know more?
Djana Libra Caldari Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.07.14 11:02:00 - [37] Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Over the past 6 months, i lost 1.7b in assets to suicide gankers. I did learn and am using a scout to ensure i will not run into an empire suicide gank on a gate. But.......it is getting out of hand. To do 13 jumps with a freighter, moving bs's, Pos fuel and such, i need at least 7 days. CCP!!! please give us the tools to counter these suicide attacks or encrease the amount of damage Concord and sentry guns can inflict in empire. Maybe create a possibility to put a tank on a freighter. (I posted with an alt for safety reasons). How about you stop moving everything at the same time and just move it bits and pieces so they cant make money off ya. CCP doesnt have to make counters, theres enough things youc an do.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.07.14 11:05:00 - [38] Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Hmm did i say i lost a freighter? There is lots of people moving stuff in t1 haulers, thats what they are there for. Also I am not trolling, I just get ****ed of to dock my freighter every 1 jump. Btw Could it be you are 1 of those nice suicide gankers???? You're an idiot if the first time didn't make you realize you did something _wrong_. Smart people don't get suicide ganked, except for griefing. Why? ... Because we fit _tank_ and fly _appropriate ships_ for what we carry. So my losses are only in low-sec and 0.0 even though I carry valuable cargo regularly.
Xen Mind School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.07.14 11:11:00 - [39] Edited by: Xen Mind on 14/07/2008 11:11:55 This is all i have to say http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I
Ambien Torca	Posted - 2008.07.14 11:19:00 - [40] "Just removing Insurance payout isn't gonna help a thing. As suicide gankers use T1 ships anyway and those are cheap. The little insurance payout they get and thus removing it won't stop them at all." Actually it will help quite a bit but it won¦t stop people shooting profitable targets. People using say geddons (50+5/10m to fit) to gank a freighter will take a lot bigger isk penalty than with current platinum insurance scheme where cost of the ship is negligible (I¦ve found BS:ses on market that when insured amount to more or less 0 isk loss besides equipment). So the cost of trying goes up 50 x 20 to 30 = 1 to 1.5 billion isk.
Elis Verone Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.07.14 11:30:00 - [41] a nice solution would be to make people loose sec like if u kill a persons ship in 05. you get the penalty wich is as today plus 1. and if u do it in 1.0 u become -5 instantly... SIMPLe.. and FAIR.. u kill someone in concord space and are seen as a pirat.. so u get -5 :)))
Guillight BLue Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.14 11:39:00 - [42] Originally by: Armoured C they can defend themselves once you hit f1-f8 to suidie gank then they are globally flagged it just you own bloody fault if you going by yourself in a freighter humm they see if you had say BC squad with a onerios for a obelisk if you donlt value you cargo enough to protect it then you deserve to loose it Aren't you getting globaly flagged ONLY when your sec status hits below a sertain mark? As long as the Sec standing is high enough on the Suicide Ganker only CONCORD will be able to take on him! I have seen players getting blown up by CONCORD, but they weren't flashy red when CONCORD attacked?
Xen Mind School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.07.14 11:41:00 - [43] Edited by: Xen Mind on 14/07/2008 11:42:14 Originally by: Elis Verone a nice solution would be to make people loose sec like if u kill a persons ship in 05. you get the penalty wich is as today plus 1. and if u do it in 1.0 u become -5 instantly... SIMPLe.. and FAIR.. u kill someone in concord space and are seen as a pirat.. so u get -5 :))) yeah soo simple we can see, did you think of the first time people play this game the toturial actually tells you to shoot "innocent" players so by your logic your closing the game for new players .... nice one i think ccp will really go for this..... and for insurance .... did any off you think about the mission runners who uses an out of corp alt, then accidently blows up the alt can instead of tractoring? Im sure ccp is open for suggestions but this will not be the change
ArchAngel Illibrium	Posted - 2008.07.14 13:33:00 - [44] Besides the peeps who gave me "nice compliments", I would like to thank for the advice and ideas generated. The best idea and doable for me is to skipp my scout and use a shieldrepping basilisk as an escort and therefore giving an extra buffer and increasing survivability. It will reduce the amount of time needed on the known suicide-ganking routes dramatically. In case of empire afk hauling a speed fitted blockade runner could be the answer.....gonna test it on SG server.
Ralara Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2008.07.14 13:35:00 - [45] why not just... ya know... not afk haul? --
Ralara Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2008.07.14 13:36:00 - [46] Originally by: Guillight BLue Originally by: Armoured C they can defend themselves once you hit f1-f8 to suidie gank then they are globally flagged it just you own bloody fault if you going by yourself in a freighter humm they see if you had say BC squad with a onerios for a obelisk if you donlt value you cargo enough to protect it then you deserve to loose it Aren't you getting globaly flagged ONLY when your sec status hits below a sertain mark? As long as the Sec standing is high enough on the Suicide Ganker only CONCORD will be able to take on him! I have seen players getting blown up by CONCORD, but they weren't flashy red when CONCORD attacked? Sure they get flagged, they probably just died faster than you could see :p It's like in low sec, open up firing on someone and the gate guns activate - you're flashing red to everyone around you. High sec is exactly the same except Concord tend to blow you up rather shortly. --
Dominique Vasilkovsky BFG Tech	Posted - 2008.07.14 13:50:00 - [47] Fit a webber to your scout ship.
Major Stallion The Dark Horses	Posted - 2008.07.14 13:58:00 - [48] Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Dear CCP.........Empire suicide gankers: It's getting out of hand. funny...these whines are also getting out of hand. This only makes thread #4399812019 on the topic...search the forums, quit your whining. You aren't save in empire. SAFER, yes, TOTALLY IMMUNE, no.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.14 14:01:00 - [49] Originally by: Guillight BLue Aren't you getting globaly flagged ONLY when your sec status hits below a sertain mark? As long as the Sec standing is high enough on the Suicide Ganker only CONCORD will be able to take on him! No you always get a global flag for 15 minutes when attacking without permission from concord.
Tenacha Khan E-Thugz	Posted - 2008.07.14 14:07:00 - [50] Originally by: Xen Mind Edited by: Xen Mind on 14/07/2008 11:42:14 Originally by: Elis Verone a nice solution would be to make people loose sec like if u kill a persons ship in 05. you get the penalty wich is as today plus 1. and if u do it in 1.0 u become -5 instantly... SIMPLe.. and FAIR.. u kill someone in concord space and are seen as a pirat.. so u get -5 :))) yeah soo simple we can see, did you think of the first time people play this game the toturial actually tells you to shoot "innocent" players so by your logic your closing the game for new players .... nice one i think ccp will really go for this..... and for insurance .... did any off you think about the mission runners who uses an out of corp alt, then accidently blows up the alt can instead of tractoring? Im sure ccp is open for suggestions but this will not be the change lol, you cannot accidently blow up your alt in hi-sec, you get a warning pop up and if you go ahead and click ok anyway then your an idiot and deserve to die. Insureance should be removed, and fines put in place depending on what ship you blew up and the value of that ship. Also think that insurance should be removed from the game all together, or even just 0.0 and pirates below -5.0.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.14 14:11:00 - [51] Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Over the past 6 months, i lost 1.7b in assets to suicide gankers. I did learn and am using a scout to ensure i will not run into an empire suicide gank on a gate. But.......it is getting out of hand. To do 13 jumps with a freighter, moving bs's, Pos fuel and such, i need at least 7 days. CCP!!! please give us the tools to counter these suicide attacks or encrease the amount of damage Concord and sentry guns can inflict in empire. Maybe create a possibility to put a tank on a freighter. (I posted with an alt for safety reasons). You are lying your ass off. It is not worth ganking a freighter if it has 2 Billion ISK or bellow in the hold. Simple math and game mechanic. Especially now since CCP did boost CONCORD where they jam the hell out of drones as well. So, if you lost 1.7 Billion ISK, it was not in a freighter over "6 months" You were an idiot and hauled stuff in T1 Indies most likely - or better yet, and more sensible reason would be - is that you are trolling, and trying to inflame an issue. It is certainly clear with your 1.7 Billion Lost/6 Months/Freighter deal. Hmm did i say i lost a freighter? There is lots of people moving stuff in t1 haulers, thats what they are there for. Also I am not trolling, I just get **ed of to dock my freighter every 1 jump. Btw Could it be you are 1 of those nice suicide gankers???? Frieghters lack module slots for a reason. Sounds like your corp and alliance mates need to get off their asses and escort you with a stack of blackbirds. Jammed gankers simply die. The problem isn't suicide ganking. The problem is you're hauling in a manner inconsistent (solo) with the stuff (volume/quantity/ownership) you're hauling. It would be like me going on a solo pvp op with a sniper battleship. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs**
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.07.14 14:26:00 - [52] Edited by: Qui Shon on 14/07/2008 14:33:21 A BS would do a better job of remoterepping a freighter then a Logistics. Just mwd into range of the cloaked freighter before it decloaks. Easy 680hp/s for armor, or at least 600hp/s for shields, though more may be possible. Not counting drones for both, of course. Don't think Logistics can do this. Originally by: Xen Mind Edited by: Xen Mind on 14/07/2008 11:11:55 This is all i have to say http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I Either you fail at linking or you've got some odd reason why you want a null link. If it's the former, it's fitting, I guess.
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything.	Posted - 2008.07.14 15:42:00 - [53] Originally by: Xen Mind Edited by: Xen Mind on 14/07/2008 11:11:55 This is all i have to say http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I Failed linking try this -=^=-
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.14 16:01:00 - [54] Sometimes I imagine this whole carebear conspiracy where they send one guy to make an outrageous whine-post on Eve-O. Then the rest come in and call the OP a carebear and start plugging for the removal of insurance for losses to Concord. That would then make that solution seem like a good compromise. It isn't. It's a stupid suggestion made by stupid people. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Aria Seniste	Posted - 2008.07.14 16:03:00 - [55] So. You're hauling for an alliance, but they can't spare a couple ships with shield transfers to stop your freighter from getting ganked by the ebil empire piwates? Theres too many people around, and you think they're all out to get you? Maybe move to lowsec/0.0 where you can at least tell who your enemies are. Otherwise, cry more, carebear hurrah of "NERF INSURANCE OMG", etc. Because CONCORD and the Insurance company are one and the same. Face it: Just because someone finds a clever way to break the law, does not make it an exploit. Theres no reason you can't counter them. Or haul less. But effectively, the request to end suicide ganking comes down to this: Originally by: Carebears I don't want to be suicide ganked. FIX IT CCP! These are the conditions we need: 1. I should not get ganked in highsec. 2. I should not have to scout to ensure this. 3. I should not have to be at my keyboard to ensure this. 4. I should not have to take any precautions to ensure my safety. 5. I cannot be expected to defend myself or retaliate against those who endanger me. 6. Suicide ganking is profit without risk! The ganks can't fail! Our missions and mining result in a lost ship much more often. We should remove the only risk to traders so that they, too, have almost as little risk/reward as suicide gankers! 7. WTG CCP, why should I have to PVP in a PVP game?
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.07.14 16:24:00 - [56] Originally by: Guillight BLue Aren't you getting globaly flagged ONLY when your sec status hits below a sertain mark? From the KB article on criminal flagging: Quote: Attacking an innocent Player A attacks Player B who is considered innocent towards Player A = Player A gets aggression flagged towards everyone. Aiding a player who is aggression flagged towards everyone Player A aids Player B who is aggression flagged towards everyone = Player A gets aggression flagged towards everyone. Aiding an outlaw Player A aids Player B who has security status of -5.0 or lower = Player A gets aggression flagged towards everyone. Note the highlights. If you ever think you're going to engage in combat in high-sec, read that KB article. Then read it again. And again. And again…
Nocturnal Avenger Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.14 16:34:00 - [57] Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Over the past 6 months, i lost 1.7b in assets to suicide gankers Over the past 40 months I lost 0 isk to suicide gankers. Go figure. - Carebear Pirate -
Aildari	Posted - 2008.07.14 17:09:00 - [58] Edited by: Aildari on 14/07/2008 17:11:22 Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Over the past 6 months, i lost 1.7b in assets to suicide gankers Over the past 40 months I lost 0 isk to suicide gankers. Go figure. Same here, no losses. To the OP, is it really that hard to warp to 0, and split up the load so valueable stuff is mixed with cheap stuff (brings down the value of each load). Don't whine for CCP to change the game for you, you need to learn to play the game that you chose to play. Too many games are wow'ified and died a slow death (UO is a good example here).. don't make this one go down that road. Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Besides the peeps who gave me "nice compliments", I would like to thank for the advice and ideas generated. The best idea and doable for me is to skipp my scout and use a shieldrepping basilisk as an escort and therefore giving an extra buffer and increasing survivability. It will reduce the amount of time needed on the known suicide-ganking routes dramatically. In case of empire afk hauling a speed fitted blockade runner could be the answer.....gonna test it on SG server. OMFG this guy dosen't learn. I guess its time to find the locater agent and make a ganker alt.
Kery Syander The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.14 17:34:00 - [59] GUYS! I just came back to my computer after a 40minute afk session expecting to find my shiney new hoarder and the 600mil in mods I put in it in jita, but when I look at the screen, I'm in a POD! WTF?!?! I was in highsec, I'm allowed to be completely ignorant of any and all game mechanics in highsec, right? It is pretty hard to catch ANY ship that isn't strolling along on autopilot, but believe it or not there are thousands of morons just like the op who absolutely refuse to learn the first thing about eve or how to actually do something to protect themselves. Of course it's CCP's responsibility dear op to ensure that you can safely be a moron anywhere in highsec. My last suicide gank I was convoed by the guy I ganked (who was pretty new to eve). He actually had a good attitude and wanted to learn how to avoid things like this in the future (IMAGINE THIS SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T IMMEDIATELY RUN TO THE FORUMS ASKING FOR DADDY CCP TO HALP BEFORE USING HIS BRAIN!?!?!?!). I told him the biggest best kept secret to avoid gankers. DONT FUKKEN AUTOPILOT THROUGH EMPIRE WITH VALUBABLE CARGO. IF YOU HAVE TO CARRY VALUBLES, THEN DO IT IN A SHIP DESIGNED FOR IT. MORON. -----
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.14 18:12:00 - [60] As always, T2 BPOs in a T1 hauler "should" be an appropriate suicide gank target. But a Freighter with less than several billion should NOT be. Two or three Billion in a Freighter should not even begin to be worth killing. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Plumpy McPudding	Posted - 2008.07.14 18:16:00 - [61] Edited by: Plumpy McPudding on 14/07/2008 18:16:05 Learn to play the game that is EVE-Online __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.
FarosWarrior Amarr Sonnema	Posted - 2008.07.14 18:24:00 - [62] Originally by: Ralara Originally by: gavhriel removing insurance in case of death by Concord will sure solve a lot of problems :) tbh i dont even see the logic here....you're breaking the law (as in killing innocent people)...but you get payed by an insurance company while doing it ? :) If a ship is destroyed by concord and that ship has destroyed another ship in the last 45 seconds, then they get no insurance payout. If a ship is destroyed by concord and that ship has not destroyed another ship in the last 45 seconds, then they get an insurance payout. this isnt gonna solve anything, its just gonna make it easier for suicide gankers... theyre just going to hit something untill its in like 1% hull, call in an af/cruiser/??? to take the last % off, lose some 25mil/less then they do now when suicide-ganking/kamikaze robbing Fly safe, FarosWarrior
Lesican Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.07.14 18:43:00 - [63] To the OP If you are hauling corp/alliance assets for no profit and getting suicide ganked I would heartily recomend some of your corp mates come along with remote reps. That way you can tank those dastardly gankers long enough for concord to do their thing. Alternatley you could not, get killed, and moan on the forums that life is unfair.
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.14 18:58:00 - [64] Sorry to have to say it, but it is really not an option to have freighter hauling through the empire with group of remote repair ships as an escort. Simple as that, it will not happen. Freighters are hard enough flying them semi afk through empire. Warp to 0, Jump, Wait for align and warp... wait.. wait ... wait.. jump, align... wait... wait.. wait. I think pretty much everyone who flames the "whiners" has either never flown a freigther or just loves his easy ganks. There is also the fact that, to prevent a suicide gank, the defenders would have to react with perfect coordination. With the fact that we here deal with humans who may be surprised and are sometimes slow to respond, especially when they are a bit inexperienced, it is simply not possible. But hell yeah, have your fun while it lasts. I do not think CCP will let this rubbish continue for much longer. To all that now scream, Carebear, you are entitled to your opinion and I can say that you do want to play eve on easy mode and not have the balls to shoot real targets.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.07.14 19:02:00 - [65] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Sorry to have to say it, but it is really not an option to have freighter hauling through the empire with group of remote repair ships as an escort. Simple as that, it will not happen. Freighters are hard enough flying them semi afk through empire. Warp to 0, Jump, Wait for align and warp... wait.. wait ... wait.. jump, align... wait... wait.. wait. I think pretty much everyone who flames the "whiners" has either never flown a freigther or just loves his easy ganks. There is also the fact that, to prevent a suicide gank, the defenders would have to react with perfect coordination. With the fact that we here deal with humans who may be surprised and are sometimes slow to respond, especially when they are a bit inexperienced, it is simply not possible. But hell yeah, have your fun while it lasts. I do not think CCP will let this rubbish continue for much longer. To all that now scream, Carebear, you are entitled to your opinion and I can say that you do want to play eve on easy mode and not have the balls to shoot real targets. So, freighter flying is boring? Well, tough *******. Do something else, or move your production closer to where you are selling. Lots of stuff are boring in this game, like POS refuelling. People do it because they know that it will help their alliance. You can play this game almost completely solo, but then you'll never reach the top, and you'll lose all rights to whine about the game being difficult or boring to play solo. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Gemini Stardream	Posted - 2008.07.14 19:06:00 - [66] I recently moved everything, and I do mean everything my 2 chars owned 30 jumps across empire and 13 jumps through lowsec, never once, not once, did I get targetted let alone ganked, this is with a hold full of at various times every named item I ever collected, t2 BPCs, datacores, encryptors, tons of BPOS including ships, repacked ships, etc, etc. So, you are doing it wrong, the only time I ever lost a cargo of any value was in 0.0 in a blockade runner to a guy in an interdictor and probably on reflection due to my own stupidity, if you are losing 1.7 billion in assets to gankers then you seriously need to look at your tactics.
Lesican Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.07.14 19:10:00 - [67] Deviana it not being an option is up to you tbh. I have a freighter - I have hauled billons worth of dispro and other moon mined goodness in and out of jita and my own combat ships where I need them. Due to logistical support (webbing scout for align and some remote reps) I have never been suicide ganked. If the gankers see a frieghter with a couple of Onerios escorting, they will most likely look for people that dont to attack. If you find co-ordinating a couple of logistics ships to remote rep a freighter simply not possible you have bigger problems than high-sec ganks
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.14 19:19:00 - [68] The problem with Suicide ganking isn't the T1 ships carrying hundreds of millions or more; honestly they deserve to get blown up. The problem is that those that are doing the shooting KNOW that they will break even because their losses are so low. They mostly don't even bother to check if there is a profit to be made. This weekend I watched 2 haulers get ganked. One was still in the undock port, the other was afking. Now you will say "Waaah, he's afk", and yes he should have known better. BUT: Both ships were carrying less than 10m in cargo. One was full of construction parts, one was full of light and heavy missiles. In both cases the suiciders got less than 2 million. I have the killmails because I asked (no, I'm not on them). When people are willing to get Ravens concorded to blow up ships that are worth less than 15m with fittings, cargo, and ALL then something is wrong. The costs are too low. One time in the past someone tried to suicide my AF. I was carrying ~8m in datacores. Nervous me had the tank running while jumping to gate; they failed. Remove insurance for those that get concorded. Allow kill rights to be traded and sold. Those two things will "even" the odds; stupid people hauling a lot of expensive crap are still a target and the ones doing the shooting actually have to worry if someone is hunting them. I have no problem with suicide ganking per se, I just want the loss and danger to not be all one-sided. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.07.14 20:41:00 - [69] OP might want to check out this thread. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Verx Interis Amarr Aurora Security Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.07.14 21:31:00 - [70] Okay seriously people I've APed in a plated tech I hauler on my alt carrying at least 15-40m of stuff a few times, and I haven't been suicide ganked. Once. It really doesn't happen all that often, stop exaggerating. Originally by: Rawr Cristina (dreadnoughts are also possibly the most boring ship you could fly. It's like mining, without the part where you make money)
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.14 22:12:00 - [71] Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Over the past 6 months, i lost 1.7b in assets to suicide gankers Over the past 40 months I lost 0 isk to suicide gankers. Go figure. Pft. I only lost half that much to suicide ganking. GB2W U N00B CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.07.14 22:25:00 - [72] Originally by: Verx Interis Okay seriously people I've APed in a plated tech I hauler on my alt carrying at least 15-40m of stuff a few times, and I haven't been suicide ganked. Once. It really doesn't happen all that often, stop exaggerating. I fear your satire will be lost on a lot of people. In general: Yea, I never lost a thing to suiciders either, so what? That doesn't mean a thing.
Feilamya Minmatar Pelennor Swarm Souls of Vengeance	Posted - 2008.07.14 22:29:00 - [73] If you are so rich, why not pay someone to scout for your billions? (If you don't have any friends)
Napro Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.14 22:30:00 - [74] Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Originally by: Crumplecorn Imagine, it takes effort to move billions of ISK worth of assets. True, and i know it takes effort, but it is getting even worse. I am not a trader, i run for my corp and alliance, so i do not gain isk from these activities (in fact losing isk), but still we should be able for some sort of defence against these gankers looking for easy isk. Have your corp form an escort?
Kery Syander The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.14 23:17:00 - [75] pay someone else to move the goods you're obviously too stupid to move yourself? Make the collateral worth more than the ship mods and you will never lose isk! ZOMG CCP QUIT MAKIN ME TALK TO OTHER PLAYERS... I WANNA PLAY ON SINGLE PLAYER MODE -----
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer	Posted - 2008.07.15 02:06:00 - [76] Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger Over the past 40 months I lost 0 isk to suicide gankers. Go figure. This.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer	Posted - 2008.07.15 02:11:00 - [77] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Sorry to have to say it, but it is really not an option to have freighter hauling through the empire with group of remote repair ships as an escort. Simple as that, it will not happen. Freighters are hard enough flying them semi afk through empire. Warp to 0, Jump, Wait for align and warp... wait.. wait ... wait.. jump, align... wait... wait.. wait. Pro tip: If you bring a Rapier or Huginn along, you instawarp. Sure, the warps still take forever, but you cut out about 40 seconds of align time for every jump. If done perfectly, you can warp before a suicide crew could even lock you.
Sniper Wolf18 Gallente Apocalypse Ponies	Posted - 2008.07.15 02:46:00 - [78] Originally by: ArchAngel Illibrium Over the past 6 months, i lost 1.7b in assets to suicide gankers. I did learn and am using a scout to ensure i will not run into an empire suicide gank on a gate. But.......it is getting out of hand. To do 13 jumps with a freighter, moving bs's, Pos fuel and such, i need at least 7 days. CCP!!! please give us the tools to counter these suicide attacks or encrease the amount of damage Concord and sentry guns can inflict in empire. Maybe create a possibility to put a tank on a freighter. (I posted with an alt for safety reasons). Dear: [ ] Clueless Newbie [x] Loser [ ] Spammer [ ] 12 year old [ ] Pervert [ ] Nerd [x] l337 d00d/"vet" [ ] Other: Illegal immigrant [ ] Troll You Are Being Flamed Because [ ] You posted a Nudity thread (anime or normal). [x] You whine like a ***. [ ] You bumped a thread from the last page. [ ] You started an off-topic thread. [ ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message . [ ] You don't know which forum to post in. [x] You posted false information (or lack thereof). [x] You posted something totally uninteresting. [ ] You doubleposted. [ ] You posted a message all written in CAPS (oR aLtErNaTe CaPs). [ ] You posted a X > Y thread. LAME. [x] I don't like your tone of voice. To Repent, You Must: [ ] Give up your AOL Internet account [ ] Bust up your modem with a hammer and eat it [x] Jump into a bathtub while holding your monitor [ ] Actually post something relevant [ ] Be my love slave [x] Apologize to everybody on this forum [ ] Go stand in the middle of an intersection In Closing, I'd Like to Say: [ ] Get a life [ ] Never post again [ ] I pity your dog [ ] I think your IQ must be 6 [ ] Take your crap somewhere else [ ] Do us all a favor and jump into some industrial equipment [ ] Go play Dress-Up Barbie OnlineÖ [x] All of the above

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