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Stealing Salvage

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Titen	Posted - 2008.07.19 16:32:00 - [31] I'm only responding to this part of the OP: Originally by: Berendas Most surprising to me however, was that he was not aggressed for doing this. I'm not sure if the OP meant that HE didn't get an aggression timer on the salvager, or that the NPC's within the mission did not agress the salvager. If it is the latter, then I can see room for 'improvement' here. If anyone is in the process of running a mission, and a salvager shows up to aquire the salvage-based remains of the destroyed ships, if there are still NPC's living on the grid the salvager should have just as much chance to be agressed by them as the mission runner. Perhaps this is how it already works, as I have never had a salvager show up in one of my own missions. But if what the OP states is being interpreted correctly, then I see no reason at all that mission rats shouldn't open fire on the salvager as well. The salvager is in the system - it is fair game. The alternative to this 'problem' would be to make deadspace an open battlefield, with no protection/consequence to salvaging activity, or the destruction of a salvage ship 'taking your stuff'. The obvious drawback to that is we would have even more threads than currently appear about salvage 'theft' show up about 'pirate griefing' due to the massive increase in pilots unable to complete missions because their mission was probed out and ships showed up to blast them into oblivion. No real answers from me.. but I'd say if any NPC ship remains on the grid in a mission, a salvage ship - even unrelated to the mission itself - should stand a chance of getting agressed by those remaining NPC's.
Spurty Caldari Cthulhu seaworm cult	Posted - 2008.07.19 16:40:00 - [32] you should try NOS'ing a wreck in hi sec. Please reply here once you've done that and explain what happened ;0 -- A guy walks into the psychiatrist wearing only clingfilm for shorts. The shrink says, "Well, I can clearly see you're nuts."
Terrus Valkin	Posted - 2008.07.19 17:43:00 - [33] Originally by: Berendas Thanks for the quick replies, didn't know there was so much discussion about the issue before. (Came back from a year break ) I suppose the 'junk doesn't belong to anyone' sorta makes sense I'll just get used to it. Anyway I'm only missioning for my GTC so soon I'll be back in the yarr and it won't matter Wait... Someone decided that they could accept something they didn't like in a video game? Okay, now I know this is just a Romulan simulation...
Calacheng Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.19 17:54:00 - [34] The contradiction in the wreck ownership that CCP caused by not making salvage stealing aggro flagged was a mistake. Only 1 out of 8 wreck ownership facts state that it does not belong to anyone. 7 out of 8 facts state that it does belong to the player/corp that created the wreck. This mistake that CCP did has caused all these salvage threads. Until a proper solution is found, there will be no end to these salvage stealing threads. Here are the famous facts of the wreck ownership. The name of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the wreck. The picture of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the wreck. The sec status of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the wreck. The corp tag of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the wreck. Only the person, their gang mates, or their player corpmates that killed the NPC can destroy the wreck without concord intervention. If someone else tries to tractor the wreck they get a message that states that you cannot tractor it be cause "the wreck does not belong to you" Only the person, their gang mates, or their player corpmates that killed the NPC can tractor the wreck, which means they own it
Lilly Gilbrath	Posted - 2008.07.19 18:09:00 - [35] Edited by: Lilly Gilbrath on 19/07/2008 18:10:23 Originally by: Calacheng The contradiction in the wreck ownership that CCP caused by not making salvage stealing aggro flagged was a mistake. Only 1 out of 8 wreck ownership facts state that it does not belong to anyone. 7 out of 8 facts state that it does belong to the player/corp that created the wreck. This mistake that CCP did has caused all these salvage threads. Until a proper solution is found, there will be no end to these salvage stealing threads. Here are the famous facts of the wreck ownership. The name of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the wreck. The picture of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the wreck. The sec status of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the wreck. The corp tag of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the wreck. Only the person, their gang mates, or their player corpmates that killed the NPC can destroy the wreck without concord intervention. If someone else tries to tractor the wreck they get a message that states that you cannot tractor it be cause "the wreck does not belong to you" Only the person, their gang mates, or their player corpmates that killed the NPC can tractor the wreck, which means they own it Well, now we know what needs to be fixed, fix the ownsership on the wrecks, all wrecks should be owned by the original owner (NPC or POD Pilot) of the ship not the one that killed it.
Calacheng Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.19 21:05:00 - [36] Yes, it is much easier to fix 1 erroneous fact to make salvage stealing aggro flagged so that all the 8 facts work in harmony than to start messing around with 7 perfectly good and working wreck ownership facts.
Malik Mantille Minmatar Dark Sun Collective	Posted - 2008.10.14 10:42:00 - [37] Originally by: Calacheng The contradiction in the wreck ownership that CCP caused by not making salvage stealing aggro flagged was a mistake. Only 1 out of 8 wreck ownership facts state that it does not belong to anyone. 7 out of 8 facts state that it does belong to the player/corp that created the wreck. This mistake that CCP did has caused all these salvage threads. Until a proper solution is found, there will be no end to these salvage stealing threads. Here are the famous facts of the wreck ownership. The name of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the wreck. The picture of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the wreck. The sec status of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the wreck. The corp tag of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the wreck. Only the person, their gang mates, or their player corpmates that killed the NPC can destroy the wreck without concord intervention. If someone else tries to tractor the wreck they get a message that states that you cannot tractor it be cause "the wreck does not belong to you" Only the person, their gang mates, or their player corpmates that killed the NPC can tractor the wreck, which means they own it No they own the "container" thus the items inside (as items cannot be flagged owned. If you salvage and items are inside the container (wreck) then cans appear... these cans retain the ownership applied to the destroyer of the ship, thus this shows proof that the contents within a container are owned via ownership of the container and destruction of said container is a crime, salvage does not destroy the container, only changes it from a wreck to a cargo can. ------
Baldour Ngarr Interwarp Plexus Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2008.10.14 12:04:00 - [38] What puzzles me is how this ever got through testing. Surely it's obvious to everyone that whatever rules apply to the junk a wrecked ship drops, must also apply to the wrecked ship itself? Either they belong to the guy who wrecked them .... or they don't. CCP sowed the seeds for this mess when they implemented flagging for jetsam in the first place. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.10.14 12:16:00 - [39] Getting close to halloween? It seems to be necro evening!
Wragdis	Posted - 2008.10.16 07:53:00 - [40] Originally by: Malik Mantille Originally by: Calacheng The contradiction in the wreck ownership that CCP caused by not making salvage stealing aggro flagged was a mistake. Only 1 out of 8 wreck ownership facts state that it does not belong to anyone. 7 out of 8 facts state that it does belong to the player/corp that created the wreck. This mistake that CCP did has caused all these salvage threads. Until a proper solution is found, there will be no end to these salvage stealing threads. Here are the famous facts of the wreck ownership. The name of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the wreck. The picture of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the wreck. The sec status of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the wreck. The corp tag of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the wreck. Only the person, their gang mates, or their player corpmates that killed the NPC can destroy the wreck without concord intervention. If someone else tries to tractor the wreck they get a message that states that you cannot tractor it be cause "the wreck does not belong to you" Only the person, their gang mates, or their player corpmates that killed the NPC can tractor the wreck, which means they own it No they own the "container" thus the items inside (as items cannot be flagged owned. If you salvage and items are inside the container (wreck) then cans appear... these cans retain the ownership applied to the destroyer of the ship, thus this shows proof that the contents within a container are owned via ownership of the container and destruction of said container is a crime, salvage does not destroy the container, only changes it from a wreck to a cargo can.

Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.10.16 15:07:00 - [41] The DEV's have stated several times that this is working as planned. I have thoughts and feeling for both sides, so I'm not for either side of the argument. But one argument for this is that the DEV's are trying to follow International Maritime Salvaging Laws. If that was the case, then the first person to find and stake claim to the wreck will also have ownership to the contents inside. So if the DEV's followed this rule, the first person to salvage the wreck would also be the owner of the loot! Maybe a simple solution to all this would be to allow the probing for wrecks only. I find piles of wrecks left behind all the time with my ship scanner. So many missions are never salvaged and there is no way to find them unless you probe it out while the mission is still being run. I personally would prefer salvaging the missions that are left unclaimed then having to warp into an active mission. I don't like it happening to me and I don't like doing it to others. But with current methods available, this is the only way. I say make active missions in dead-space completely hidden from probes, but give us salvagers a method to find the wrecks left unclaimed!
Demitria Fernir Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.10.16 15:12:00 - [42] Originally by: Calacheng The name of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the Cargo Container Within the Wreck. The picture of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the Cargo Container Within the Wreck. The sec status of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the Cargo Container Within the Wreck. The corp tag of the player that killed the NPC is the one on the Cargo Container Within the Wreck. Only the person, their gang mates, or their player corpmates that killed the NPC can destroy the Cargo Container Within the Wreck without concord intervention. If someone else tries to tractor the Cargo Container Within the Wreck they get a message that states that you cannot tractor it be cause "the wreck does not belong to you" Only the person, their gang mates, or their player corpmates that killed the NPC can tractor the Cargo Container Within the Wreck, which means they own it Do you get it now? _______________________________________________ 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101
Eeen Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.16 15:57:00 - [43] Salvaging isn't stealing its recycling. We keep eve neat and tidy , we should be applauded and thanked for the work that we put into our job.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.10.16 17:21:00 - [44] Salvage doesn't belong to you until it's in your hold, much like ore from asteroids. Only the loot inside is yours. The wreck is space-junk. Everything is working as intended. Also, thanks for thread number 31,394,284 about this issue.
Highwind Cid	Posted - 2008.10.16 18:40:00 - [45] Originally by: Kyra Felann There is no such thing as stealing salvage. It's not yours till you salvage it. That's why it's called salvage. You don't own ore until you mine the asteroids. You don't own salvage until you salvage the wreck. Period. Na uh Na uh, daddy said so. It's mine, ALL MINE!
Piper Halliwell Minmatar Phantom Squad Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.16 19:24:00 - [46] -------------------- You've got a gun, I've got a gun, Let's write a tragic ending.
Malcanis RuffRyders	Posted - 2008.10.16 19:39:00 - [47] IMO not making salvage flaggable is a glaring injustice that should be corrected within 48 hours.
Saralle Zhukov	Posted - 2008.10.16 19:54:00 - [48] Salvage is for whoever grabs it. Even in current law of the sea that is how it works. If you don't want to lose it, get teammates to clean up after you. Pegging the Waaaaaa meter just clogs the boards. Sar


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