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Why at least one caldari ship needs a bigger drone bay..

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BiggestT Caldari Fun Inc	Posted - 2008.07.21 04:18:00 - [1] Before some1 whines plz read the WHOLE post :P Caldari have no uber drone boats. This makes sense as minmatar have no uber laser boat (lol) This fact is fine and dandy..untill ccp skrewed it up by bringing in carriers. To train for carriers one must train fighters, heavies/meds etc and max out their drone sp... This is fine for every1 as the drone sp aids in other ships that can use drones well ie arb/phoon/domi..to an extent the raven and scorp benefit aswell as they can use meds+lights etc. Then we get to heavies: not one caldari sub-capital ship can field 5 (or even 4) heavy drones. This is rather lame as we must spend many sp's on drones and train t2 heavies etc for our carriers, therfore losing out on the sp for heavies benefiting less from all that sp in drones. Sure we can use them in a dread or carrier but so can all the other races..we just lose out elsewhere..If someone says "just cross-train >blah<" then stfu, its not like gallente have to cross-train to get maximum use from their skillpoints. /whine now a solution: plz extend the drone bay of the scorpion to 100m (or maybe ferox? dunno, all other cal ships cld be too overpowered) scorp gets primaried anyway so its not like it will make a huge difference to ops etc, else plz bring out a new class of ships for the races that focus on that races "non-speciality" (for want of a better word) ie drone boat for cal, missile boat for gallente etc thoughts? poudly annoying fc's since 2007
Valandril Caldari Exiled. Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.07.21 04:23:00 - [2] U don't need t2 heavies to fly carrier, especialy in age of capfights where u will mostly use carrir to kill other caps. Tbh i use my heavy drones mostly for lol duels, for rest its either fighters or small/meds. ---
BiggestT Caldari Fun Inc	Posted - 2008.07.21 04:26:00 - [3] Originally by: Valandril U don't need t2 heavies to fly carrier, especialy in age of capfights where u will mostly use carrir to kill other caps. Tbh i use my heavy drones mostly for lol duels, for rest its either fighters or small/meds. but im gueesing u still trained for heavy t2 drones? plus i forgot to mention that with a drone bay to fit heavies u can also fit sentries, do u use those or no? i know i wld poudly annoying fc's since 2007
Unworldly1 Gallente Fun Inc	Posted - 2008.07.21 04:40:00 - [4] Bah! BiggestT, you and your unreasonable demands! Next you'll be asking for caldari to be able to solo effectively too! Seriously though, the man has a point. Caldari could probly use a little drone love... (ew) * * * Originally by: Jagdgewehr A stiff fart could do more damage than a Damnation
BiggestT Caldari Fun Inc	Posted - 2008.07.21 04:45:00 - [5] Originally by: Unworldly1 Bah! BiggestT, you and your unreasonable demands! Next you'll be asking for caldari to be able to solo effectively too! Seriously though, the man has a point. Caldari could probly use a little drone love... (ew) the man-love will be high on the agenda tonight :D poudly annoying fc's since 2007
Unworldly1 Gallente Fun Inc	Posted - 2008.07.21 04:49:00 - [6] oh noes! Stupid roles, there's no way i can leave corp by tonight! NOOOO! /me fears the manlove in Fun Inc... * * * Originally by: Jagdgewehr A stiff fart could do more damage than a Damnation
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.21 05:43:00 - [7] To be honest, I'm not terribly concerned about the fighter skill tree aspect of drones, it's more of an issue of utility. Caldari ships by and large will only excell in a very limited set of circumstances dictated by your fitting and hull. This has lead to two seperate viewpoints of Caldari ships: 1) Caldari ships suck for PVP - a view generated when one fights a Caldari vessel fitted for the wrong scenario either by design or ignorance. 2) Caldari ships are only useful in Gang fights. A big part of the problem lies in the simple fact that caldari ships have to tank with their mid slots - yes you have the option to tank armor but few ships can even pretend to do so well. This inevitably means our ships must trade resiliance under fire for every single module other than gank that is useful in PVP. While a pure tank/gank Caldari ship generally bests it's peers in it's EHP/defense to spank ratio, such fittings are of only questionable utility - afterall if you can't force the opponent to stand and fight it doesn't matter how overpowering you are they will simply warp away. The second part of the issue revolves around the drone bay. 75m^3 is the max of any sub capital Caldari vessel I'm aware of - enough for a paulty 3 heavy drones or 5 mediums and 5 lights. While this is rarely an issue from a DPS point of view we have to understand that Drones represent not only secondary (or primary in some cases) weapons but also serve to increase the flexability and utility of ships. ECM drones for example are fantastically common in PVP because it allows one to fit a slimmer buffer (and as such more gank modules) and still expect to best the opponent because of the occasional jams. Warrior II drones represent the best defense most caldari ships will ever have against the nano ship. The small drone bay essentially means that while a Caldari ship may be able to field drones, they will rarely have spares. Lack of spares means any flexability granted by the dronebay is of limited use at best. Do I think that Caldari need a drone boat? Not especially but having at least a few ships with larger drone bays would certainly help when it comes to solo viability and overall versatility of our ships. The SP issue is a somewhat valid concern but for me it is minimal. On average I recieve a small percentage of my DPS from drones (rarely more than 25%) - a number that justifies my putting SP into the tree but not large enough for me to bother training lots of skills. It's true that until I hit carriers (if I ever hit carriers) I won't bother training that last level of drone interfacing or even touch sentry drones.
Vorga Gar	Posted - 2008.07.21 05:52:00 - [8] Give the Scorpion 125m3 bay and same bandwidth?
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.21 06:01:00 - [9] Originally by: Vorga Gar Give the Scorpion 125m3 bay and same bandwidth? Though it initially seemed like a strange idea to give the scorpion more drone space and bandwidth, it's the only ship it makes sense to do so. Afterall, the Raven is chasing the top spot for "best effective DPS against other battleships" and another two heavy II's would make the argument moot in my book. The Rokh could use them but given it's primary role in general is sniping at extreme ranges the drones would only be of questionable utility. The scorpion is generally relegated to fleet jamming but it comes ever so close to being Caldari's solo battleship. In this case what Iit needs to effectively solo other BS's is more DPS - something that 5 heavy drones would certainly lend. Granted the resulting ship still would only put out 700 or so DPS. Interestingly it may make the scorpion a viable PVE ship as well, something it does quite poorly.
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.07.21 06:05:00 - [10] I'd rather the fix Pilgrim and large pojectiles first, but... I like the idea of giving the scorp some bandwidth, haha. You rarely see the poor scorp, except for the occasional suicidal fleet pilot. And it's hard to imagine it being imbalanced by a little extra drone space.

Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.21 06:10:00 - [11] Originally by: Boz Well I'd rather the fix Pilgrim and large pojectiles first, but... I like the idea of giving the scorp some bandwidth, haha. You rarely see the poor scorp, except for the occasional suicidal fleet pilot. And it's hard to imagine it being imbalanced by a little extra drone space. I love the scorpion and it seems like it's ever so close to greatness. But it's at that special kind of close to greatness where you're close enough to see what it might be like to actually have a versitile Caldari ship only to have your head handed to you all of the time. Still, of all the Caldari ships the Scorp makes the most sense - it has the EHP to actually fight and it has the mids to tank AND tackle, and the addition of decent EWAR skills (2x multispecs in my case) mean that really all it lacks right now is firepower - something another couple of ogres or what have you could solve. Still, I'd probably load 1 flight of warriors and and 2 flights of hammerheads so I could actually have spares.
BiggestT Caldari Fun Inc	Posted - 2008.07.21 06:19:00 - [12] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Boz Well I'd rather the fix Pilgrim and large pojectiles first, but... I like the idea of giving the scorp some bandwidth, haha. You rarely see the poor scorp, except for the occasional suicidal fleet pilot. And it's hard to imagine it being imbalanced by a little extra drone space. I love the scorpion and it seems like it's ever so close to greatness. But it's at that special kind of close to greatness where you're close enough to see what it might be like to actually have a versitile Caldari ship only to have your head handed to you all of the time. Still, of all the Caldari ships the Scorp makes the most sense - it has the EHP to actually fight and it has the mids to tank AND tackle, and the addition of decent EWAR skills (2x multispecs in my case) mean that really all it lacks right now is firepower - something another couple of ogres or what have you could solve. Still, I'd probably load 1 flight of warriors and and 2 flights of hammerheads so I could actually have spares. Yes excactly, ferox may be a possible choice but a 125m drone bay seems kind of ridicoulous next to the supposedly superior drake with only 25mm. I love my scorp and get on many a km with the ecm/nueting love combo that is so great for low sec. But the fact that it has no dps means that im always wanting to fly something else, especially considering i get primaried all the time... poudly annoying fc's since 2007
BiggestT Caldari Fun Inc	Posted - 2008.07.21 07:14:00 - [13] The lack of trolling and NO UR WRONG EMORAGE posts is encouraging, but unfortunately this post wont survive as a result :( poudly annoying fc's since 2007
BiggestT Caldari Fun Inc	Posted - 2008.07.21 07:39:00 - [14] I posted this topic in the assembly hall. If you agree with this post plz go there and support :D poudly annoying fc's since 2007
Gabriel Virtus	Posted - 2008.07.21 08:53:00 - [15] No droneboat for caldari? Considering that Caldari in general is not a drone race and is much better than any other race at many things, quit complaining and cross train Gallente or Amarr. There is a reason why there are 4 different races and not just one race. They are ALL DIFFERENT AND SHOULD BE. Caldari ships hold their own in almost any field and outshine other races in some fields. Caldari is a shield tanking race of missile shooters that does not use drones. They generally shoot far away from the fight. This is what Caldari is and they do it very well. There is no reason why any Caldari ship SHOULD be able to use 5 heavies. Did you know that not one Gallente ship can use more than 2 missile turrets?!@#!?#!?@! OMG! If you want to use drones, you picked the wrong race. Races should be different and use different styles for combat. Caldari loses no where, they do enough dps they do not need any drones. I am tired of people complaining that their race doesn't have this or doesn't have that, the races ARE DIFFERENT. Game would be boring if every race was the exact same as every other one. If anything is ridiculous about droneboats is the drone race's drone boats can not even use 4 heavies and barely fit 3 heavies for anything smaller than a battleship. Sign the damn petition to boost drone bandwidth on the Myrmidon and EOS to 9mb/s flame on. -Gabriel
Wideen Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.21 09:01:00 - [16] A torp scorp with 5 Ogre IIs and a shield tank from hell.. I like it
Artemis Rose Eleckrostatik	Posted - 2008.07.21 09:19:00 - [17] You only need Drone Interfacing V to get fighters, not Heavy Drones V or anything crazy like that. In term of flying a carrier, the drone skills are very low percentage of your total skillpoints. You can be slightly below average (no t2 Sentries or t2 heavies) as well.You are in a support ship, not a WTFOMG DPS machine. Rep teammates and POSes and tank it out. It could be worse, you could be forced to train both Citadel torps and XL Projectiles for your Dreads as well as both capital shield and armor tanks to fly all your sub-par Matari capitals. __________________________________________________ Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.21 10:10:00 - [18] Originally by: Gabriel Virtus No droneboat for caldari? Considering that Caldari in general is not a drone race and is much better than any other race at many things, quit complaining and cross train Gallente or Amarr. There is a reason why there are 4 different races and not just one race. They are ALL DIFFERENT AND SHOULD BE. Caldari ships hold their own in almost any field and outshine other races in some fields. Caldari is a shield tanking race of missile shooters that does not use drones. They generally shoot far away from the fight. This is what Caldari is and they do it very well. There is no reason why any Caldari ship SHOULD be able to use 5 heavies. Did you know that not one Gallente ship can use more than 2 missile turrets?!@#!?#!?@! OMG! If you want to use drones, you picked the wrong race. Races should be different and use different styles for combat. Caldari loses no where, they do enough dps they do not need any drones. I am tired of people complaining that their race doesn't have this or doesn't have that, the races ARE DIFFERENT. Game would be boring if every race was the exact same as every other one. If anything is ridiculous about droneboats is the drone race's drone boats can not even use 4 heavies and barely fit 3 heavies for anything smaller than a battleship. Sign the damn petition to boost drone bandwidth on the Myrmidon and EOS to 9mb/s flame on. -Gabriel The lack of caldari versatility you describe is exactly what this thread is addressing. There are NO caldari "DPS" ships. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Tanith YarnDemon	Posted - 2008.07.21 10:32:00 - [19] Originally by: Malcanis The lack of caldari versatility you describe is exactly what this thread is addressing. There are NO caldari "DPS" ships. So what is the Raven again?
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.21 10:55:00 - [20] Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon Originally by: Malcanis The lack of caldari versatility you describe is exactly what this thread is addressing. There are NO caldari "DPS" ships. So what is the Raven again? Raven is fairly good, to be sure. But the bonuses are really configured for range just like all the other Caldari ships. And it's certainly not soloable. Besides, the scorp is an oddball ship already. giving it a bigger drone bay/bandwidth might make it more usable. More drones won't make it a better ECM ship, so it won't be overpowered, it would just give it a possible role as that one Caldari ship that can actually solo. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.07.21 10:57:00 - [21] Well, I see entirely where you're coming from - There's no obvious training path which converges on the Chimera. That said, I'm not so sure that isn't a bit of a deficiency with the carrier, rather than the 'rest' of the ship line. shrug. Scorpion would make an interesting drone boat, especially is it's a little overshadowed at the moment as an 'ECM ship'. But that might well make it quite overpowered... shrug. Not convinced it's necessary, as it dilutes racial flavour. Not convinced it'd be particularly bad either, so... shrug -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Rhak Amharr Minmatar Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.07.21 10:59:00 - [22] Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon Originally by: Malcanis The lack of caldari versatility you describe is exactly what this thread is addressing. There are NO caldari "DPS" ships. So what is the Raven again? A PVE boat. It can of course only fit Cruise Missiles (what good are torps for after the nerf? They only have a range of around 50km!) and shoot NPCs, even just locking players in a Raven is disallowed by game mechanics. Duh, l2p. On a serious note: Yes, I agree that the Scorpion needs some loving, it's a nice and actually pretty versatile ship (for an EWAR ship), but it's rarely chosen over a Falcon. Some drone love would probably get it used a bit more, though it will still be used far less than Falcons. So yes, give it bandwidth for 5 heavies. I would actually consider training heavies on my Caldari alt then. :) Rhak
Thirzarr	Posted - 2008.07.21 11:07:00 - [23] I do like the idea of a Scorp being a little more usefull. Heavy Drones would actually make this ship a very interesting alternative.
Rhak Amharr Minmatar Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.07.21 11:17:00 - [24] Originally by: Malcanis Raven is fairly good, to be sure. But the bonuses are really configured for range just like all the other Caldari ships. And it's certainly not soloable. I have to agree on the "not soloable" part to a certain extent, you have to sacrifice quite a lot to even fit a disruptor, let alone web or MWD. I (well, my alt) fly the Raven only in gangs, without tackle. But I have to disagree on the bonuses part. Let's compare with a Megathron (one of the solowtfpwnmobiles). The 10% missile velocity bonus is actually quite nice after the torp buff, it gives you about disruptor range optimal with T1 or faction torps. You deal insane DPS at semi-insane ranges with BS V (and support skills ofc). As I see the Raven as a gang ship (so do you, I think), this is way better than the missile equivalent to the tracking bonus of the Mega, namely explosion velocity. It sucks on torps anyway, so why lose range for nothing? It helps you hit or even tank better in gangs, since you don't need to fit MWD if you don't have range problems. And then there's the 5% ROF bonus, which is even better than the Megas 5% damage bonus, when you simply look at raw DPS. I think the bonuses are, even if they seem to favour cruise missiles at first, quite nice for a Torp Raven. So, to sum up: While the Raven cannot solo (or at least has problems with it), its bonuses are pretty much spot on imo. Just my 2c, Rhak
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.21 11:21:00 - [25] Edited by: Malcanis on 21/07/2008 11:21:57 Originally by: James Lyrus Well, I see entirely where you're coming from - There's no obvious training path which converges on the Chimera. That said, I'm not so sure that isn't a bit of a deficiency with the carrier, rather than the 'rest' of the ship line. shrug. Scorpion would make an interesting drone boat, especially is it's a little overshadowed at the moment as an 'ECM ship'. But that might well make it quite overpowered... shrug. Not convinced it's necessary, as it dilutes racial flavour. Not convinced it'd be particularly bad either, so... shrug Overpowered? Compared to what? 5 unbonused drones and 4 unbonused launchers seems pretty moderate compared to the Mega or the Domi or the Typhoon or the Geddon. Yes, ECM, great, but when you've fitted MWD, Scram, Web, cap injector and a shield tank, there won't actually be all that much ECM. Or you can go armour tank and have more ECMs but with no SDAs. Scorp has few hit points and low speed, so I don't think it would be overpowered at all. it would just be a different style from the other Caldari ships, and a very welcome change for bored ECM specialists (ie: me). I guess Sentries on it would be pretty nice, but sentries have a lot less range than the scorp normally operates at and can't do jack to tacklers unlike the normal complement of warrior II. EDT: Does the sniper mega "dilute the racial flavour" of Gallante? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Rib0 Regression.	Posted - 2008.07.21 11:22:00 - [26] 125m3 dronebay on ferox would be great 6x neutron blaster II w/ void 1x light assault launcher II (or whatever) 1x 10mn MWD II 2x LSE II 2x invuln II 3x magstab II 1x dcu II 2x ancilary current router I 1x core def field extender 5x ogre II siege warfare mindlink 823 dps 89k EHP 161 dps tank id fly it!
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.21 11:23:00 - [27] Originally by: Rib0 125m3 dronebay on ferox would be great 6x neutron blaster II w/ void 1x light assault launcher II (or whatever) 1x 10mn MWD II 2x LSE II 2x invuln II 3x magstab II 1x dcu II 2x ancilary current router I 1x core def field extender 5x ogre II siege warfare mindlink 823 dps 89k EHP 161 dps tank id fly it! hell even a 50m^3 bay to match the other races BCs would be nice. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Jallem Sims Minmatar Quantum Warriors	Posted - 2008.07.21 11:26:00 - [28] why do you need heavy drones again... to train up to fighters? cause as mentioned you don't actually need that skill. so why should any caldari ship have the bandwidth to spew out heavies? simple answer to the op tbh. Not needed to skill up for, so not needed to have a ship with such a ability. To the boost scorp... o.0 what next? anything else caldari is missing? after all the shouting about how great drakes and ravens are, and now you claim no DPS ship, no solo WTFPWN ship. Make up your minds caldari!
BiggestT Caldari Fun Inc	Posted - 2008.07.21 12:14:00 - [29] Edited by: BiggestT on 21/07/2008 12:20:21 Originally by: Gabriel Virtus No droneboat for caldari? Considering that Caldari in general is not a drone race and is much better than any other race at many things, quit complaining and cross train Gallente or Amarr. There is a reason why there are 4 different races and not just one race. They are ALL DIFFERENT AND SHOULD BE. Caldari ships hold their own in almost any field and outshine other races in some fields. Caldari is a shield tanking race of missile shooters that does not use drones. They generally shoot far away from the fight. This is what Caldari is and they do it very well. There is no reason why any Caldari ship SHOULD be able to use 5 heavies. Did you know that not one Gallente ship can use more than 2 missile turrets?!@#!?#!?@! OMG! If you want to use drones, you picked the wrong race. Races should be different and use different styles for combat. Caldari loses no where, they do enough dps they do not need any drones. I am tired of people complaining that their race doesn't have this or doesn't have that, the races ARE DIFFERENT. Game would be boring if every race was the exact same as every other one. If anything is ridiculous about droneboats is the drone race's drone boats can not even use 4 heavies and barely fit 3 heavies for anything smaller than a battleship. Sign the damn petition to boost drone bandwidth on the Myrmidon and EOS to 9mb/s flame on. -Gabriel read the whole damn thing b4 posting ITS AT THE START DAMN it addressed all that stuff. plz edit that mssg by DELETING ALL YOUR TEXT edit: typo poudly annoying fc's since 2007
BiggestT Caldari Fun Inc	Posted - 2008.07.21 12:17:00 - [30] Originally by: Artemis Rose In term of flying a carrier, the drone skills are very low percentage of your total skillpoints. . I dont care what precentage of skillpoints it takes up, most if not all carrier pilots trian heavy/sentry drones if i cant use them on one damn caldari sub-cap ship then thats sp that i cant utilise. Its like if gallente had to trian for missiles for their dread wld that be stupid? uh yes poudly annoying fc's since 2007



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