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T2 Battlecruisers - The Tier 2 Models

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Math'ra Hiede Amarr Quality Assurance Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.23 13:16:00 - [1] Now I know that we have a rather large array of ships availiable to us as it currently stands, but now with alot more T2 ships being introduced (Mauraurders, Black Ops, HIC's). Is there a role for T2 variants of the Drake, Harbinger, Myrmidon, Hurricane that hasn't been used yet other than your stock standard HUGE DPS wtfpwnmobile T2 ships that people would just love. Because other than a covert operations style ship (which I think we have enough of now) is there something that could be used as a counterbalance to current issues (nano's anyone ) Or am I just fantasising about T2 models of the Harbinger? (my personal favorite).
Dheorl Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.23 13:24:00 - [2] Tbh when I heard about HIC's I though they would be the teir 2 BC hull. It would kinda make sense seeing as all the cruiser hulls are already used up and the normal interdictor is a dessy but meh.
BiggestT Caldari Fun Inc	Posted - 2008.07.23 13:27:00 - [3] I personally thought a ewar varient wld be cool tho it seems kinda pointless having another ecm boat a webbing bc wld be a nice anti-nano boat :D poudly annoying fc's since 2007 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123 caldari drone boat enthusiast
Math'ra Hiede Amarr Quality Assurance Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.23 13:39:00 - [4] Originally by: Dheorl Tbh when I heard about HIC's I though they would be the teir 2 BC hull. It would kinda make sense seeing as all the cruiser hulls are already used up and the normal interdictor is a dessy but meh. I'm with you on that, It would make more sense with them beaing HEAVY interdictors. although I think that some sort of strange hybrid class, what for though im not sure - CCP seems to have a rather vivid imagination in creating strange things
Pyro Ninja	Posted - 2008.07.23 14:21:00 - [5] They could always make them a heavy stealth bomber.. but since no one uses those things now not sure if this would be any better.
Yuri Vladomirovic	Posted - 2008.07.23 14:28:00 - [6] Idea for pvp: -Cynojammer deactivator -Some kind of area affect weapon specced ship (bonus for smartbombs/ ecm jammer, a huge decloaker aura) For pve: -Hacking/archeo/wtf specced ships -0.0 complex runner (with uberres in faction damages: Myrmi T2 = uber thern n kin to farm Serpentis, and so on) Hell, its about time, I go home.
Wil Smithx	Posted - 2008.07.23 14:30:00 - [7] Originally by: Pyro Ninja They could always make them a heavy stealth bomber.. but since no one uses those things now not sure if this would be any better. Those are used in 0.0 with bombs... I know you can alpha strike most hacs and some commands before they decloak after jumping, with a few sb. Though a heavy SB is already in the game and called the widow. Other than a salvage ship I couldnt justify in my mind any class of ship for Tier 2 BC atm. - We don't want more nano. - We don't want more tank. - We might like more gank, but we wont get it. - And most specialist roles in the game are already tanken.
BiggestT Caldari Fun Inc	Posted - 2008.07.23 14:51:00 - [8] Originally by: Yuri Vladomirovic Idea for pvp: -Cynojammer deactivator -Some kind of area affect weapon specced ship (bonus for smartbombs/ ecm jammer, a huge decloaker aura) For pve: -Hacking/archeo/wtf specced ships -0.0 complex runner (with uberres in faction damages: Myrmi T2 = uber thern n kin to farm Serpentis, and so on) Hell, its about time, I go home. i like the idea of aoe wepaon specced ships as there currently are none (only high slot mod not to have a speeced ship for them) tho the cynodeactivator cld be overpowered poudly annoying fc's since 2007 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123 caldari drone boat enthusiast
Math'ra Hiede Amarr Quality Assurance Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.24 05:46:00 - [9] Originally by: BiggestT Originally by: Yuri Vladomirovic Idea for pvp: -Cynojammer deactivator -Some kind of area affect weapon specced ship (bonus for smartbombs/ ecm jammer, a huge decloaker aura) For pve: -Hacking/archeo/wtf specced ships -0.0 complex runner (with uberres in faction damages: Myrmi T2 = uber thern n kin to farm Serpentis, and so on) Hell, its about time, I go home. i like the idea of aoe wepaon specced ships as there currently are none (only high slot mod not to have a speeced ship for them) tho the cynodeactivator cld be overpowered I think it is something that should be looked into though, if it is like the HIC which has a special module that nerfs every other thing they can do, like movement. so you can only cyno your cov ops fleet in then de-activate it - and proceed to take out the system cyno jammers, would that be an idea?
Kano Sekor Amarr The Movement	Posted - 2008.07.24 06:22:00 - [10] No area of effect cloakers all ships within 5000m gets cloaked w/o penalties you can sit 4 Bs:es close to this baby and then bam 4 BS:es and this T2 BC uncloaks and its raep time. We can call em Ghosts or spectres or something cool. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Desu Sigs

Mortuus Minmatar Demonic Corp G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.07.24 06:29:00 - [11] Area of Effect added to detonation of all weapons added. The brute force cousin of the stealth bomber. Occassus Republica <3
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.07.24 06:35:00 - [12] I think there are enough ships. . . I started when there were 4/5 frigs, 1 industrial, 2 cruisers and 2 battleships and no T2 anything. . . now its like 31 flavors out there. I think there are other things for the hamsters to work on then designing and balancing more ships and mechanisms. ---- GO BLUE!!
Bellum Eternus Gallente D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.24 06:55:00 - [13] Make the T2 Tier2 BCs science ships: High sensor strength, long lock ranges, fast lock times, small resistance increases, slight HP increase etc., bonuses to probe cycle time and probe strength. Bonus to fitting exploration and recon probe launchers. Would this step on the CovOps toes too much? No. They will always make a better, more efficient probing platform, plus they will be able to warp cloaked. Science vessels such as described above will have very good utility, and with their very high sensor strengths and fast lock times will be valuable for PVP over and above their T1 counterparts without increasing the 'solo pwnmobile' factor of higher damage output and increased tanks. Increase the locking range by 30% for each. Increase the sensor strength by 100% for each. Increase the scan resolution by 100% for each. 10% increase to both racial resists for each ship type. Bonuses: Role bonus: -90% CPU to all probe launchers. +20% scan resolution, -5% probe cycle time per BC Level (needs BC5 to fly T2 anyway, so that's -25% to probe cycle time). +20% sensor strength, +5% probe strength per level of Exploration Vessel (new skill, needs racial cruiser 5, science 5, battlecruiser 5, astrometrics 5). So there you have it- a new ship class, it's not overpowered in terms of DPS or tank, it's resistant to ECM (sensor strength) and damps (increased base lock range and faster lock speed) and has a niche role in probing exploration sites and being able to take on some of the lower level sites solo, but would still require dedicated combat ships to complete the higher level exploration sites. CCP should pay me for this stuff. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Wil Smithx	Posted - 2008.07.24 07:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Make the T2 Tier2 BCs science ships: High sensor strength, long lock ranges, fast lock times, small resistance increases, slight HP increase etc., bonuses to probe cycle time and probe strength. Bonus to fitting exploration and recon probe launchers. Would this step on the CovOps toes too much? No. They will always make a better, more efficient probing platform, plus they will be able to warp cloaked. Science vessels such as described above will have very good utility, and with their very high sensor strengths and fast lock times will be valuable for PVP over and above their T1 counterparts without increasing the 'solo pwnmobile' factor of higher damage output and increased tanks. Increase the locking range by 30% for each. Increase the sensor strength by 100% for each. Increase the scan resolution by 100% for each. 10% increase to both racial resists for each ship type. Bonuses: Role bonus: -90% CPU to all probe launchers. +20% scan resolution, -5% probe cycle time per BC Level (needs BC5 to fly T2 anyway, so that's -25% to probe cycle time). +20% sensor strength, +5% probe strength per level of Exploration Vessel (new skill, needs racial cruiser 5, science 5, battlecruiser 5, astrometrics 5). So there you have it- a new ship class, it's not overpowered in terms of DPS or tank, it's resistant to ECM (sensor strength) and damps (increased base lock range and faster lock speed) and has a niche role in probing exploration sites and being able to take on some of the lower level sites solo, but would still require dedicated combat ships to complete the higher level exploration sites. CCP should pay me for this stuff. A complex runner would be pretty cool, something T2 BC style would fit the role of a ship that could find a complex itself then turn up and do it. Obviously it wont be able to complete the high ranking complexes on its own easily, and I dont think it should be a cloaking ship but I like the general idea.
Mark Lucius Kinetic Vector	Posted - 2008.07.24 07:50:00 - [15] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Make the T2 Tier2 BCs science ships: High sensor strength, long lock ranges, fast lock times, small resistance increases, slight HP increase etc., bonuses to probe cycle time and probe strength. Bonus to fitting exploration and recon probe launchers. Would this step on the CovOps toes too much? No. They will always make a better, more efficient probing platform, plus they will be able to warp cloaked. Science vessels such as described above will have very good utility, and with their very high sensor strengths and fast lock times will be valuable for PVP over and above their T1 counterparts without increasing the 'solo pwnmobile' factor of higher damage output and increased tanks. Increase the locking range by 30% for each. Increase the sensor strength by 100% for each. Increase the scan resolution by 100% for each. 10% increase to both racial resists for each ship type. Bonuses: Role bonus: -90% CPU to all probe launchers. +20% scan resolution, -5% probe cycle time per BC Level (needs BC5 to fly T2 anyway, so that's -25% to probe cycle time). +20% sensor strength, +5% probe strength per level of Exploration Vessel (new skill, needs racial cruiser 5, science 5, battlecruiser 5, astrometrics 5). So there you have it- a new ship class, it's not overpowered in terms of DPS or tank, it's resistant to ECM (sensor strength) and damps (increased base lock range and faster lock speed) and has a niche role in probing exploration sites and being able to take on some of the lower level sites solo, but would still require dedicated combat ships to complete the higher level exploration sites. CCP should pay me for this stuff. I was thinking in a similar direction and I actually like this suggestion a lot. ---
Math'ra Hiede Amarr Quality Assurance Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.24 11:04:00 - [16] Originally by: Mark Lucius Originally by: Bellum Eternus Make the T2 Tier2 BCs science ships: High sensor strength, long lock ranges, fast lock times, small resistance increases, slight HP increase etc., bonuses to probe cycle time and probe strength. Bonus to fitting exploration and recon probe launchers. Would this step on the CovOps toes too much? No. They will always make a better, more efficient probing platform, plus they will be able to warp cloaked. Science vessels such as described above will have very good utility, and with their very high sensor strengths and fast lock times will be valuable for PVP over and above their T1 counterparts without increasing the 'solo pwnmobile' factor of higher damage output and increased tanks. Increase the locking range by 30% for each. Increase the sensor strength by 100% for each. Increase the scan resolution by 100% for each. 10% increase to both racial resists for each ship type. Bonuses: Role bonus: -90% CPU to all probe launchers. +20% scan resolution, -5% probe cycle time per BC Level (needs BC5 to fly T2 anyway, so that's -25% to probe cycle time). +20% sensor strength, +5% probe strength per level of Exploration Vessel (new skill, needs racial cruiser 5, science 5, battlecruiser 5, astrometrics 5). So there you have it- a new ship class, it's not overpowered in terms of DPS or tank, it's resistant to ECM (sensor strength) and damps (increased base lock range and faster lock speed) and has a niche role in probing exploration sites and being able to take on some of the lower level sites solo, but would still require dedicated combat ships to complete the higher level exploration sites. CCP should pay me for this stuff. I was thinking in a similar direction and I actually like this suggestion a lot. Surprisingly I think it works really well without stepping on the toes of the CovOps frigs too much, maybe some decrease in cap charge/max cap (or some other thing to make sure they wouldn't be all that viable as a wtfpwnmobile) would be in order so as not to make them into something that could so that it couldnt just fit on a rack of weapons and go blaze a trail with a near invulnerability to e-war
Passcal Darksaber Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.24 14:47:00 - [17] I Would love them to be like smaller cheaper versions of dreads, but without the cynoing. Give them 2 capital weapons so they dont out class the current dreads. These could be used in pos warefare by smaller corps who don't have the revanue or logistics to use real capitals. (sorry for any spelling mistakes, for somereason the spell checker isn't working) Join The Flock
Ambrosious Martin Son of Man	Posted - 2008.07.24 15:55:00 - [18] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Make the T2 Tier2 BCs science ships: High sensor strength, long lock ranges, fast lock times, small resistance increases, slight HP increase etc., bonuses to probe cycle time and probe strength. Bonus to fitting exploration and recon probe launchers. Would this step on the CovOps toes too much? No. They will always make a better, more efficient probing platform, plus they will be able to warp cloaked. Science vessels such as described above will have very good utility, and with their very high sensor strengths and fast lock times will be valuable for PVP over and above their T1 counterparts without increasing the 'solo pwnmobile' factor of higher damage output and increased tanks. Increase the locking range by 30% for each. Increase the sensor strength by 100% for each. Increase the scan resolution by 100% for each. 10% increase to both racial resists for each ship type. Bonuses: Role bonus: -90% CPU to all probe launchers. +20% scan resolution, -5% probe cycle time per BC Level (needs BC5 to fly T2 anyway, so that's -25% to probe cycle time). +20% sensor strength, +5% probe strength per level of Exploration Vessel (new skill, needs racial cruiser 5, science 5, battlecruiser 5, astrometrics 5). So there you have it- a new ship class, it's not overpowered in terms of DPS or tank, it's resistant to ECM (sensor strength) and damps (increased base lock range and faster lock speed) and has a niche role in probing exploration sites and being able to take on some of the lower level sites solo, but would still require dedicated combat ships to complete the higher level exploration sites. CCP should pay me for this stuff. Im totally game for this idea... tho I think the best way to make it non-wtfpwnmobile is to not put weapons on it at all... or give it a major bunk to them... say frigate weapons, on a BC... thats a gaurantee that they arent solomobiles. Next you could penilize them even further and say that by having a super sensor str, then there resists are actually lowered, becuase nautral resists are a detriment to the electronics abilities of the ship. Then at that point im actualy game with CCP changing the models for the Commands, specifically the combat versions to there tier 2 models, bonused accordingly. Lets face it the Cane is more of a little sleipnir.
MagicCommander LFC	Posted - 2008.07.24 15:56:00 - [19] Originally by: Yuri Vladomirovic Idea for pvp: -Cynojammer deactivator -Some kind of area affect weapon specced ship (bonus for smartbombs/ ecm jammer, a huge decloaker aura) For pve: -Hacking/archeo/wtf specced ships -0.0 complex runner (with uberres in faction damages: Myrmi T2 = uber thern n kin to farm Serpentis, and so on) Hell, its about time, I go home. Thinking out of the box, nice ideas m8.
Shereza	Posted - 2008.07.24 16:13:00 - [20] Personally, I'd like to see the command ships get moved around a bit on models rather than introduce new ship types. Base: Eos on Myrmidon Absolution on Harbinger Nighthawk on Drake Sleipnir on Hurricane I mean, honestly, it's a lot more realistic to expect CCP to do something like this than to introduce 4 new ship types, one new ship class, and balance them with everything else. Plus in one way or another the changes would be fitting. Harbinger is more of a laser boat than the prophecy, drake more of a missile boat than the ferox, myrmidon to eos conversion would make sense with drones, and might as well on the minmatar ships because scrap heaps and duct tape look alike no matter where you are. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.

AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.24 16:18:00 - [21] TBH I'd like to see them become what destroyers never were. Big glass cannons. Do.. 125% of current battleships. Have... 1/4th the tank. Bad idea with insurance costs? Possibly. Having a harbinger hull to 1500 DPS? Yesplz. Too bad I stopped doing exploration due to low profits. I probably would have /signed with exploration/science vessel.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.24 16:19:00 - [22] Yes, please. But, no freaking science ships. We want Heavy Battlecruiser with BC lvl 5 required. "Duck" Heavy Battlecruiser Drake hull base price: 90,000,000.00 isk 8000 Base shield HP slots: 8 High, 6 Med, 6 Low 7 Launchers Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% Shield resistance, 5% Missile damage of all types. Heavy Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% Missile Velocity, 5% Missile Launcher ROF. I await my Duck. thx
Kuzya Morozov Gallente L8L8L8	Posted - 2008.07.24 16:20:00 - [23] green myrm that can warp cloaked yaya
Troezar Personal Vendetta Vendetta Alliance.	Posted - 2008.07.24 16:53:00 - [24] Just new models would suit me. How unoriginal is multiple variants of the same hull? Take the Rupture for example, I'd rather have had the Munnin and Broadsword look totally different. Note just because they are supposed to be related doesn't mean they have to look the same! How do CCP make cool ships like the Mach or Cynabal and then produce so many boring ones?
mentalmonkey Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.07.24 19:17:00 - [25] Why can't we just give the fleet commands tier 2 BC hulls, they are mostly similar to to the tier 2 BCs in role (Eos - Myrm, NH - Drake). If we do make a BC it should probably be EWAR based and effective against nano (Minmatar - Web range, Ammar - neut / TD, Caldari ECM, Gallente - SDs as long as they actually work, unlike they currently do). It does seem all races have good enough nano counter in thier recons though (except Gallente, as lets face it the gallente recons are very weak ATM).
Nai Weil Caldari Tupperware Party	Posted - 2008.07.24 19:41:00 - [26] Originally by: mentalmonkey Why can't we just give the fleet commands tier 2 BC hulls, they are mostly similar to to the tier 2 BCs in role (Eos - Myrm, NH - Drake). If we do make a BC it should probably be EWAR based and effective against nano (Minmatar - Web range, Ammar - neut / TD, Caldari ECM, Gallente - SDs as long as they actually work, unlike they currently do). It does seem all races have good enough nano counter in thier recons though (except Gallente, as lets face it the gallente recons are very weak ATM). Noooo... I'd be well upset if I spent all that time training for a Damnation and it ended up looking like a Harbinger rather than a Prophecy. Given the stick CCP took for changing the Helios model from Maulus to Imicus, I can't imagine them doing something like that to a ship which takes months to train for.
Nai Weil Caldari Tupperware Party	Posted - 2008.07.24 19:43:00 - [27] Edited by: Nai Weil on 24/07/2008 19:43:26 Sorry - double post
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.24 20:09:00 - [28] Originally by: mentalmonkey Why can't we just give the fleet commands tier 2 BC hulls, they are mostly similar to to the tier 2 BCs in role (Eos - Myrm, NH - Drake). If we do make a BC it should probably be EWAR based and effective against nano (Minmatar - Web range, Ammar - neut / TD, Caldari ECM, Gallente - SDs as long as they actually work, unlike they currently do). It does seem all races have good enough nano counter in thier recons though (except Gallente, as lets face it the gallente recons are very weak ATM). No. I have already said that the T2 BCs should be just like T1 BCs only 2x better. Stop changing things around.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.07.24 23:54:00 - [29] If you arn't going to tier up my Drake CCP, give me some jugs of paint so I can do it myself.
Kuzya Morozov Gallente L8L8L8	Posted - 2008.07.25 00:39:00 - [30] Originally by: Foocurr Edited by: Foocurr on 24/07/2008 16:27:18 Yes, please. But, no freaking science ships. We want Heavy Battlecruiser with BC lvl 5 required. "Duck" Heavy Battlecruiser Drake hull base price: 90,000,000.00 isk 8000 Base shield HP slots: 8 High, 7 Med, 6 Low 7 Launchers Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% Shield resistance, 5% Missile damage of all types. Heavy Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% Missile Velocity, 5% Missile Launcher ROF. I await my Duck. thx stealth carebear post



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