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HG Snakes - Removal and Reimbursal

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Lolarina	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:02:00 - [61] don't buy if you can't afford it getting nerfed
Delos Korelian	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:02:00 - [62] Well, OK, there is no point for HG Snakes on most of the ships anymore. So, they will go down in price to something reasonable, and then stabilize as less people will run missions to get them. So all of this means that there will be some semblance of balance in game, soon. Why do you think you need to be reimbursed? No one forced you to buy something that got nerfed.
Jenny' JoJo Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:08:00 - [63] Would you reimburse your victims? You can still use snakes and still can do so for month or two or however many months it takes for them to nerf nano. So get your 2.4bil worth of nano through asap. Refresh to see next real life CCP Sig(25 total)
Neth'Rae Gallente Decorum Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:12:00 - [64] So if something gets boosted you have to pay CCP because it increases in price? Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Sid Zero	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:13:00 - [65] Originally by: Delos Korelian Why do you think you need to be reimbursed? No one forced you to buy something that got nerfed. tbh I was just in shock, and a bit emotional after reading the dev blog, and don't really expect reimbursement. But this is a logical argument for reimbursal: In real life, nothing gets nerfed. The density of water doesn't just suddenly change, the taste of carrots stays relatively constant, the earth goes around the sun. Oranges don't spontaneously turn into zebra excrement. Now if CCP takes a constant decision to turn all the oranges in the game into zebra excrement, can't they just put an amount of isk equal to a conservative estimate of the difference in value between oranges and zebra excrement into the wallets of all the people who are now stuck with zebra excrement? PS: I know it's not happening so I'm just going to keep the snakes and work on a post nerf nano-AB Deimos fit. I'm sure to lose the 'plants soon enough
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:18:00 - [66] CCP never should have started with reimbursing stuff, personally I hope there will be a day when they will come to their senses.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:28:00 - [67] Originally by: Sid Zero tbh I was just in shock, and a bit emotional after reading the dev blog, and don't really expect reimbursement. But this is a logical argument for reimbursal: In real life, nothing gets nerfed. The density of water doesn't just suddenly change, the taste of carrots stays relatively constant, the earth goes around the sun. Oranges don't spontaneously turn into zebra excrement. Now if CCP takes a constant decision to turn all the oranges in the game into zebra excrement, can't they just put an amount of isk equal to a conservative estimate of the difference in value between oranges and zebra excrement into the wallets of all the people who are now stuck with zebra excrement? PS: I know it's not happening so I'm just going to keep the snakes and work on a post nerf nano-AB Deimos fit. I'm sure to lose the 'plants soon enough This was actually funny and insightful, you are not the only one in the similar boat. I have a full set of HG snakes and extremley expensive "speed" setup. I am talking Gistum A-Type stuff.. and well, nothing lasts forever, but I got the set for myself when they first came out, within a month, as I did with Shaqil's implant - still I was stunned, and thought I was having a hallucination. My hope, perhaps, is that CCP will truly test all the options and it will indeed bring balance to the parts of the game, but what I do not want to see is a knee-jerk reaction to all the whines - of the people who are laughing at us now - for investing into HG Snake sets and speed setups and calling it a "nano-problem," since the percentage of people who are fully invested into "Speedy Gonzales" setups is so minimal it could never have been the source if the whine. My guess is, and this pretty much on the money I think, it is the most people used Offline tool to fit the ships with full "Speedy Gonzales"set, and realized how powerful it really was, combined with regular run of the mill greed and jealousy they begrudged the few the possibility of even having it. Not that they actually, in their majority ever came under the guns of someone who has fully invested in the setup - it is the thought of it, that they could not stand. Whatever, we shall see.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:37:00 - [68] Originally by: Sid Zero Edited by: Sid Zero on 25/07/2008 20:20:48 Originally by: Delos Korelian Why do you think you need to be reimbursed? No one forced you to buy something that got nerfed. tbh I was just in shock, and a bit emotional after reading the dev blog, and don't really expect reimbursement. But this is a logical argument for reimbursal: In real life, nothing gets nerfed. The density of water doesn't just suddenly change, the taste of carrots stays relatively constant, the earth goes around the sun. Oranges don't spontaneously turn into zebra excrement. Now if CCP makes a conscious decision to turn all the oranges in the game into zebra excrement, can't they just put an amount of isk equal to a conservative estimate of the difference in value between oranges and zebra excrement into the wallets of all the people who are now stuck with zebra excrement? PS: I know it's not happening so I'm just going to keep the snakes and work on a post nerf nano-AB Deimos fit. I'm sure to lose the 'plants soon enough Snake pilots might be the only things left in the universe that can effectively nano. Instead of finding yourself a hawk among slower hawks, you might just be the hawk among pigeons. Wait and see. And a Diemost? Seriously? - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:38:00 - [69] Jinx do you honestly think the dev's are jealous of your expensive setup ?
Jenny' JoJo Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:40:00 - [70] Originally by: Sid Zero But this is a logical argument for reimbursal: In real life, nothing gets nerfed. The density of water doesn't just suddenly change, the taste of carrots stays relatively constant, the earth goes around the sun. Oranges don't spontaneously turn into zebra excrement. Now if CCP makes a conscious decision to turn all the oranges in the game into zebra excrement, can't they just put an amount of isk equal to a conservative estimate of the difference in value between oranges and zebra excrement into the wallets of all the people who are now stuck with zebra excrement? Real Life Anologies eh? Ok. Look at Speed - F1 Racing. The first time a Racer used a Afterburner, he won easaly. The one and only race where it got banned straight after. It got nerfed so F1 remains competitive. So nerfs do happen in real life. Joe Bloggs takes 1000$ home each month. Goverment tax goes up and he takes home 900$. His wages got nerfed even though he still does the same. Nano nerf is because nano breaks game mechanics. Thats the issue here Refresh to see next real life CCP Sig(25 total)
Sid Zero	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:41:00 - [71] Originally by: Sirial Soulfly Jinx do you honestly think the dev's are jealous of your expensive setup ? NO U!!!!!
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:42:00 - [72] Originally by: Jinx Barker My guess is, and this pretty much on the money I think, it is the most people used Offline tool to fit the ships with full "Speedy Gonzales"set, and realized how powerful it really was, combined with regular run of the mill greed and jealousy they begrudged the few the possibility of even having it. Not that they actually, in their majority ever came under the guns of someone who has fully invested in the setup - it is the thought of it, that they could not stand. I think it was more along the lines of: 1) Get butthurt by experienced pvpers that happened to be nanoing. 2) Exaggerate the problem and whine loudly on the forums. Very few people can actually attain and sustain game engine breaking speeds in anything but an interceptor. My nano curse has always take significant damage, from even regular heavy missiles. My vagabond can only MWD intermittently, and so takes some heavy hits, then some negiligble ones. My brief stay in a nano ishtar was met with the sad realization that my drones were utterly sacrificed each time I deployed them, then subsequently sold in jita. And none of them were ever invulnerable. I've lost two curses in the last month and a vagabond not too long ago. All three were my own mistake, and extremely costly. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
LetsDoThis	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:52:00 - [73] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. People keep saying this but it's dead wrong. They're not decreasing missile or drone speed. So nanos are going to be slaughtered wholesale. Admittedly, that's my talking-out-of-ass analysis without knowing how fast things will be in practice. But at least it accounted for more relevant facts than yours. They defined too fast as being able to outrun drones and missles, so being able to not take damage from those sources is clearly not intended.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:54:00 - [74] Originally by: Sirial Soulfly Jinx do you honestly think the dev's are jealous of your expensive setup ? I was not referring to Devs, I was referring to armchair specialist with EVEFIT tools. Try to read more carefully.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:26:00 - [75] I never got the chance to use snakes while they were uber. This is not fair. I demain CCP reimburse me for this missed oppurtunity. Originally by: Meridius Dex I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:32:00 - [76] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Sid Zero Originally by: Haradgrim Don't fly it if you can't afford to loose it. quoting this for truth... Quoting for 0% relevance. DID I JUST GET RAINBOW TROLLED?? srslythgh, Do you actually type out those colours or do you have a program/macro? -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Napro Caldari Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:35:00 - [77] You knew this was overpowered. You knew this would get nerfed. No reimbursement
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:43:00 - [78] Edited by: Jinx Barker on 25/07/2008 21:45:46 Originally by: Napro You knew this was overpowered. You knew this would get nerfed. No reimbursement Actually, all the current gloating remarks aside, I want to quote you what developers said about pirate sets during one of the CCP-Player Gatherings: "Each Individual Implant will add a benefit or two, in small percentages. However, there is also an Omega implant, that pretty much does nothing by itself, but when combined with all the other implants of its type will give overall boost to the entire set. This indeed, will be something very, very special." So, when they said very, very special, they did mean it, it was and is very special, only this time they are taking the "special" away. And in no way would it imply that they have had any doubts of the future implementation or issues at the time of introducing those "very special" implants that they knew people will spend allot of effort, time and ISK getting. All of the issues are superficial, when it comes down to it, simply because there are not that many people, I am repeating myself, who actually have a full set of HG Snakes + All other Speed Implants. It was special, it was rare, almost unique, quite elite, and now it is gone. Because of the whiners, and moaners, really, not because EVERY SINGLE NANO SETUP USED HG SNAKES AND SPEED IMPLANTS every time, another example, in my opinion, of baser instincts winning over principals, and CCP caving in to the whining majority. Ok, now, you can go back to gloating.
Terminus adacai Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:45:00 - [79] Originally by: Sid Zero I invested somewhere in the region of 2.4 Billion Isk for a full set of snake implants - the effect of which may be reduced by 50% in a months' time. Should these changes go through, will CCP consider reimbursal upon removal of these implants? Same goes for ships rigged with polycarbon engine housings. I would really appreciate, but frankly do not expect, in the slightest, any kind of official response to this question. Yes, right after I get reimbursed for my nerfed ships and missile skills Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance.
Faife Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:47:00 - [80] Originally by: Lolarina don't buy if you can't afford it getting nerfed pwn and /thread. - -
GallenteCitizen20080615 Gallente Federation War News	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:50:00 - [81] they wont reimburse you because you have recieved the effect of those implants while they wernt "nerfed" so they have been useful to you STFU whining they still do what there designed to do which is make you go faster, cant wait to mop up the other cearbear tears after they attempt to tank again ==D wait should i fit 2 hull repairs or one
3cxO Caldari ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:58:00 - [82] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Matrix Skye Originally by: Xaen They're not decreasing missile or drone speed. So nanos are going to be slaughtered wholesale. So now they'll be more vulnerable (ie, will actually take some damage). That's the point. They're more in line with armor and shield tank. You mean they'll be vastly inferior to the point of being hit by stuff. A "speed tank" that doesn't nullify damage is not a tank of any kind. But as I said in my previous post, "that's my talking-out-of-ass analysis without whining about how fast things used to be". We'll see on Singularity, but the forecast is not good. Fixed for great justice!!
Delos Korelian	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:58:00 - [83] I am laughing at all the moaning that nanomoaners who just 24 hours ago were complaining bitterly, and now, the situation is reversed and all of them are rejoicing in the pain of others. Goes to show you how people are truly, really are, and EVE is perfect for it, brings out the lowest common denominator. I guess you all are collecting your pound of flesh now, he? Now it will be: awww damn, I am just shooting him while he is ABing away! Or: missile boats are overpowered, nerf them!
justsometrader	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:08:00 - [84] Originally by: Delos Korelian I am laughing at all the moaning that nanomoaners who just 24 hours ago were complaining bitterly, and now, the situation is reversed and all of them are rejoicing in the pain of others. Goes to show you how people are truly, really are, and EVE is perfect for it, brings out the lowest common denominator. I guess you all are collecting your pound of flesh now, he? Now it will be: awww damn, I am just shooting him while he is ABing away! Or: missile boats are overpowered, nerf them! you had a nanoboat right ? just contract it to me, i¦ll buy it for the mineral price
GallenteCitizen20080615 Gallente Federation War News	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:09:00 - [85] Edited by: GallenteCitizen20080615 on 25/07/2008 22:09:32 cant wait for the AB kills bit ironic that 24 hours ago the naners were saying adapt and now they are moaning because they have to do the same so glad i fall into none of these categories
Delos Korelian	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:16:00 - [86] Originally by: justsometrader Originally by: Delos Korelian I am laughing at all the moaning that nanomoaners who just 24 hours ago were complaining bitterly, and now, the situation is reversed and all of them are rejoicing in the pain of others. Goes to show you how people are truly, really are, and EVE is perfect for it, brings out the lowest common denominator. I guess you all are collecting your pound of flesh now, he? Now it will be: awww damn, I am just shooting him while he is ABing away! Or: missile boats are overpowered, nerf them! you had a nanoboat right ? just contract it to me, i¦ll buy it for the mineral price Have you looked at my age? I mean character age? You joking right? I am returning player, but not necessarily a stupid one. I can see that you and people like are just enjoying it immensely, and are simply wallowing in other's discomfort. All it will mean that those with ISK who probably have more of it then you and your poor buddies will ever see in your lifetimes in eve will find other way make more isk, and will still outspend you and outperform you despite the insipid remarks you all make. I do not like either one of you, the rich bums who spend bazzilions on the snake sets, the other bums who are now dancing around the charred flesh because they could never afford it, does not matter. I am just enjoying the parade, and that is it.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.29 01:56:00 - [87] Originally by: Haradgrim Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Sid Zero Originally by: Haradgrim Don't fly it if you can't afford to loose it. quoting this for truth... Quoting for 0% relevance. DID I JUST GET RAINBOW TROLLED?? srslythgh, Do you actually type out those colours or do you have a program/macro? I have a java program I wrote in an afternoon. Works on PHP BB too with a different command line option. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2008.07.29 02:06:00 - [88] lol no.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.07.29 02:10:00 - [89] Originally by: Beltantis Torrence Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. Except missiles and guns... Which is the whole point of the proposed changes... Now what I expect to happen after the changes is that your previously 99% invulnerable ship will drop down to about 75% invulnerable. Meaning you will eventually have to warp away or make a quick run out your attackers optimal to make sure your nonexistant tank doesn't fold up on you. But guess what? You still get to warp away and dictate the range at your leasure. Speed tanks are now balanced vs other tanks in that they buy you time not immunity with moar skills and better mods buying you even moar time. But at the end of the day your still going to go really fast compared to your normal targets of choice. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Delos Korelian	Posted - 2008.07.29 02:38:00 - [90] Originally by: Zeba Now what I expect to happen after the changes is that your previously 99% invulnerable ship will drop down to about 75% invulnerable.] Have you been on sis yet? Have you tested the changes yet? 75% invulnerable my left foot. Try pretty much killable. And, this is not taking into account all the things which are done to balsterboats, the change is too harsh, it really is. I mean, what the hell, test it before you come here and tell us 75% chance of escape. A Rifter can pretty much hold Vaga hostage, even 5 bill vaga with snakes. Add to it couple of damage dealers, and forget about 4-6 billion ISK vaga. Go to sisi, and take a look, use your imagination with fittings, and do not forget to overlaod your modules, and see what happens to HG Snaked pilot now. Anyway, I would suggest to give all snaked up pilots an ability to remove their implants w/o destroying them, as least of the concession. As they stand now they are useless. I do not think any type of reimbursement is possible anyway, since no one forced anyone to buy them. On the other hand, some sort of concession has to come into play.

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