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Sid Zero	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:06:00 - [1] I invested somewhere in the region of 2.4 Billion Isk for a full set of snake implants - the effect of which may be reduced by 50% in a months' time. Should these changes go through, will CCP consider reimbursal upon removal of these implants? Same goes for ships rigged with polycarbon engine housings. I would really appreciate, but frankly do not expect, in the slightest, any kind of official response to this question.
Ringo Jeicha Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:07:00 - [2] Yeah i would like all my FOTM setups reimbursed right now!!!!! --- Braaaiiinnnsssssssssss
Riga Mortiss	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:08:00 - [3] No you can't have your money back... but if you're gonna quit over it then can I have your stuff?
VoiceInTheDesert Gallente Diplomatic Disruption	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:08:00 - [4] No....just like I didn't get any money back when any of the ships I fly got nerfed.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:08:00 - [5] MMORPG's change all the time, its part of the charm/curse. --- Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:09:00 - [6] Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:09:00 - [7] Wish I had 2.4 bil to blow on ANYTHING tbh.
Lui Kai Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:10:00 - [8] Nom nom nom nom ---------------- Ambulation Answers
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:11:00 - [9] Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. If I fly 10 times faster then the person trying to kill me, but he is doing 1 meter/sec and im doing 10 m/s - Im not going to outrun his tackle/damage modules which have remained the same. SKUNK
SaorAlba 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:11:00 - [10] Well you were dumm enough not to forsee the swing of the nerfbat of hell. Since you obviously not qualify for a game as Eve, Your stuff to my hangar?
Sid Zero	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:11:00 - [11] Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. Frankly I don't want them anymore. It's like buying a beer and then just as your about to drink it they swap it for strawberry flavoured milk and say oops we actually didn't sell you a beer we sold you a strawberry flavoured milk. I don't want strawberry flavoured milk.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:12:00 - [12] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. If I fly 10 times faster then the person trying to kill me, but he is doing 1 meter/sec and im doing 10 m/s - Im not going to outrun his tackle/damage modules which have remained the same. SKUNK Way to inject a totally irrelevant comparison in there skunk. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
TheG2 Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:14:00 - [13] These whine threads are fantastic, I'm only sad that I'm at work and can't see the aftermath on the servers now.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:16:00 - [14] Things change, deal. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Lui Kai Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:17:00 - [15] Originally by: TheG2 These whine threads are fantastic, I'm only sad that I'm at work and can't see the aftermath on the servers now. The server is mostly unaware, judging by the public channels. But you can't buy better entertainment than the forums, today. ---------------- Ambulation Answers
Sid Zero	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Riga Mortiss No you can't have your money back... but if you're gonna quit over it then can I have your stuff? Oh I'm staying.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:22:00 - [17] I trained encryption skills and then they were cheaper. - DesuSigs
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:22:00 - [18] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. If I fly 10 times faster then the person trying to kill me, but he is doing 1 meter/sec and im doing 10 m/s - Im not going to outrun his tackle/damage modules which have remained the same. SKUNK Way to inject a totally irrelevant comparison in there skunk. Not really - rather then comparing the ship to ship speed ration - you should be considering the speed-weapon range - in that the weapon range remains the same. SKUNK
NeoTheo Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:24:00 - [19] Edited by: NeoTheo on 25/07/2008 17:24:43 Originally by: Sid Zero I invested somewhere in the region of 2.4 Billion Isk for a full set of snake implants - the effect of which may be reduced by 50% in a months' time. Should these changes go through, will CCP consider reimbursal upon removal of these implants? Same goes for ships rigged with polycarbon engine housings. I would really appreciate, but frankly do not expect, in the slightest, any kind of official response to this question. no, its the cost of having a dynamic market. For what its worth, i am out of pocket to, thats the way it is. and its a good thing. no, no and no. Neotheo Dark Materials Linkage
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:24:00 - [20] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. If I fly 10 times faster then the person trying to kill me, but he is doing 1 meter/sec and im doing 10 m/s - Im not going to outrun his tackle/damage modules which have remained the same. SKUNK Way to inject a totally irrelevant comparison in there skunk. Not really - rather then comparing the ship to ship speed ration - you should be considering the speed-weapon range - in that the weapon range remains the same. SKUNK Look at it this way. Before the implant nerf you get about 25~30km/s on your inty or even more in some cases. Afterwards you should still be well in the mid to upper 10's and with the hit to every other ship class you will enjoy the same relative percentage of speed over your targets as before. Net result is that the op will still get the overwhelming speed advantage he paid for. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Sid Zero	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:27:00 - [21] Originally by: Wendat Huron Things change, deal. I have no qualms about dealing with change - THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I INVESTED IN NANO **ING SHIPS! I'm not upset about having to deal with change, bring it on, might even be fun. I'm upset about paying 2.4 billion Isk** for a product, and then having to settle for something that I would not have bought in the first place.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:29:00 - [22] Don't fly it if you can't afford to loose it. -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:30:00 - [23] Originally by: Sid Zero Originally by: Wendat Huron Things change, deal. I have no qualms about dealing with change - THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I INVESTED IN NANO **ING SHIPS! I'm not upset about having to deal with change, bring it on, might even be fun. I'm upset about paying 2.4 billion Isk** for a product, and then having to settle for something that I would not have bought in the first place. Look on the bright side: maybe you'll get podded before the changes actually take effect. Then you'll have received full value for money. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Sid Zero	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:31:00 - [24] Originally by: Haradgrim Don't fly it if you can't afford to loose it. quoting this for truth...
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:31:00 - [25] Originally by: Sid Zero Originally by: Wendat Huron Things change, deal. I have no qualms about dealing with change - THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I INVESTED IN NANO **ING SHIPS! I'm not upset about having to deal with change, bring it on, might even be fun. I'm upset about paying 2.4 billion Isk for a product, and then having to settle for something that I would not have bought in the first place. And you buy things knowing full and well that their stats may change at some point in the future. If I sold an Arazu a month ago, should CCP reimburse me for the profit I would have made if I sold the ship in a week? Your question and mine are one in the same. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)**
Qanael Radlari Caldari Kinetic Vector	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:32:00 - [26] Originally by: Sid Zero Originally by: Wendat Huron Things change, deal. I have no qualms about dealing with change - THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I INVESTED IN NANO **ING SHIPS! I'm not upset about having to deal with change, bring it on, might even be fun. I'm upset about paying 2.4 billion Isk** for a product, and then having to settle for something that I would not have bought in the first place. Titans got nerfed. Do you think any of the alliances that own titans got reimbursed their hundreds of billions?
NeoTheo Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:33:00 - [27] Originally by: Sid Zero Originally by: Wendat Huron Things change, deal. I have no qualms about dealing with change - THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I INVESTED IN NANO **ING SHIPS! I'm not upset about having to deal with change, bring it on, might even be fun. I'm upset about paying 2.4 billion Isk** for a product, and then having to settle for something that I would not have bought in the first place. thats just the cookie crumbling when you play the min/maxing game. happened to me in a bunch o games; was still fun using the items whilst they are uber tho. Neotheo Dark Materials Linkage
Sid Zero	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:36:00 - [28] Originally by: Malcanis Look on the bright side: maybe you'll get podded before the changes actually take effect. Then you'll have received full value for money. Well, I'll give it a week or so to see which way things are going. Then I'll probably go in battel for honor in universe must be hold and go out in a blaze of reduced-structure-hp-polycarbenginehousing fire... I wonder what would be the best ship to do this in
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:37:00 - [29] Originally by: Sid Zero Originally by: Malcanis Look on the bright side: maybe you'll get podded before the changes actually take effect. Then you'll have received full value for money. Well, I'll give it a week or so to see which way things are going. Then I'll probably go in battel for honor in universe must be hold and go out in a blaze of reduced-structure-hp-polycarbenginehousing fire... I wonder what would be the best ship to do this in Drake, for maximum irony. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Sid Zero	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:41:00 - [30] Originally by: Malcanis Drake, for maximum irony. I am in posession of a drake fitted with 3x polys. I'm thinking it'll either be that one, or my Navy Caracal fitted with 3x polys, and a Gistum B-type MWD. 6000m/s I kid you not. Fleet Stabber could also be awesome.
Tasuric Orka Antares Fleet Yards	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:44:00 - [31] Upon character creation i was lead to believe my race was good at pvp, it turns out this is not the case, i would like to be able to reallocate my sp please ccp. ----------------------------------------- Eves #1 spreadsheet warrior.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:48:00 - [32] Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. People keep saying this but it's dead wrong. They're not decreasing missile or drone speed. So nanos are going to be slaughtered wholesale. Admittedly, that's my talking-out-of-ass analysis without knowing how fast things will be in practice. But at least it accounted for more relevant facts than yours. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:51:00 - [33] Originally by: Sid Zero Originally by: Haradgrim Don't fly it if you can't afford to loose it. quoting this for truth... Quoting for 0% relevance. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
SaorAlba 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:53:00 - [34] Originally by: Tasuric Orka Upon character creation i was lead to believe my race was good at pvp, it turns out this is not the case, i would like to be able to reallocate my sp please ccp. Poor guy. I am Amarr. I bet you didn't know that every gunnery skill back in the begining of Eve was specced with willpower as the primary? They changed it and screwed up the Amarr rass to a piont it never recovered from it. But I am still here, Yourstuff to my hangar?
Kelron Queldine Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:54:00 - [35] I put overdrives on one of my ships once, I think. Reimburse plox.
Strak Yogorn Amarr Mind Warpers	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:57:00 - [36] Originally by: Sid Zero I invested somewhere in the region of 2.4 Billion Isk for a full set of snake implants - the effect of which may be reduced by 50% in a months' time. Should these changes go through, will CCP consider reimbursal upon removal of these implants? Same goes for ships rigged with polycarbon engine housings. I would really appreciate, but frankly do not expect, in the slightest, any kind of official response to this question. and you had alot of use of them in the time they were plugged in.
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:58:00 - [37] Originally by: Xaen They're not decreasing missile or drone speed. So nanos are going to be slaughtered wholesale. So now they'll be more vulnerable (ie, will actually take some damage). That's the point. They're more in line with armor and shield tank.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:00:00 - [38] Edited by: Jinx Barker on 25/07/2008 18:01:46 fact is: The percentage of the population that actually has a: 1) Full Set of Snakes HG - 3 Billion 2) Shaqil's Speed Enhancer - 700 Mill 3) 2x Polycarb II - 800 Mill 4) MY-2 Implants - 250 Mill Is miniscule, and can not be indicative of the "nano problem" - CCP should resolve the issue of "ridiculous speed" so long as it does not involve itself in penalizing people with ability and capacity to actually build "Speedy Gonzales" setup and put the 4.2-4.6 Billion ISK (conservative estimate) on the line every time. Maybe there is no question of "reimbursement" but certainly there is a question of the CCP heavy handedness with their proposal. Since giving the benefits that the items give, and having had people spend ridiculous amounts of ISK to obtain the best equipment, and then to take it away - DOES AND WILL CREATE AN APPEARANCE OF INEQUALITY within the game. And all those who would refute it, and now are laughing at "nanoer's" and "Snake Owner's" tears are only doing so because they were jealous all this time that they could not afford it, or were afraid to invest so heavily, and risk it, and are delighting in the pain of others. My guess is, those who could afford it, and were smart enough to make the billions and billions of ISK to afford it will adapt and will afford the next best thing again, and will overcome, hopefully, what CCP has planned - and it will still mean that petty whiners who could not adapt to the game, are still going to be whining.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:03:00 - [39] Originally by: Sid Zero Then I'll probably go in battel for honor in universe must be hold and go out in a blaze of reduced-structure-hp-polycarbenginehousing fire... You shouldn't mix honor and speed tanks any more than you should mix shield and armor tanks tbh.
agent apple FIRMA	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:03:00 - [40] If you have any luck let me know, i've got a set of HG crystals I haven't used in three years.
Lord Drax Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:07:00 - [41] i bought video player and they invented dvd years later, i want to be reimbursed. -----------------------------------------
Karok Vilneram State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:07:00 - [42] Originally by: Crumplecorn I trained encryption skills and then they were cheaper. /thread
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:09:00 - [43] Edited by: Zeba on 25/07/2008 18:12:04 Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. People keep saying this but it's dead wrong. They're not decreasing missile or drone speed. So nanos are going to be slaughtered wholesale. Admittedly, that's my talking-out-of-ass analysis without knowing how fast things will be in practice. But at least it accounted for more relevant facts than yours. ? There is a handy chart in the blog that clearly states the new min/max speed ranges for after the patch. Its almost the same as the old chart only lower overall but with a more defined curve between the classes. In some cases after the patch he will travel even faster relative to certain other classes of ships. And as far as weapons go are the current drone and missiles able to hit a 10kms inty? No you say? Well its seems pretty safe to assume that his nearly 20kms with max skills, impants and gang bonus will keep him immune to enemy fire inline with the original cost of the snakes. Stick to arguing about the UI Xaen as most people tend to agree with you there. edit: also /this Originally by: Matrix Skye Originally by: Xaen They're not decreasing missile or drone speed. So nanos are going to be slaughtered wholesale. So now they'll be more vulnerable (ie, will actually take some damage). That's the point. They're more in line with armor and shield tank. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Skaaj Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:16:00 - [44] Originally by: Jinx Barker Edited by: Jinx Barker on 25/07/2008 18:01:46 fact is: The percentage of the population that actually has a: 1) Full Set of Snakes HG - 3 Billion 2) Shaqil's Speed Enhancer - 700 Mill 3) 2x Polycarb II - 800 Mill 4) MY-2 Implants - 250 Mill Is miniscule, and can not be indicative of the "nano problem" - CCP should resolve the issue of "ridiculous speed" so long as it does not involve itself in penalizing people with ability and capacity to actually build "Speedy Gonzales" setup and put the 4.2-4.6 Billion ISK (conservative estimate) on the line every time. Maybe there is no question of "reimbursement" but certainly there is a question of the CCP heavy handedness with their proposal. Since giving the benefits that the items give, and having had people spend ridiculous amounts of ISK to obtain the best equipment, and then to take it away - DOES AND WILL CREATE AN APPEARANCE OF INEQUALITY within the game. And all those who would refute it, and now are laughing at "nanoer's" and "Snake Owner's" tears are only doing so because they were jealous all this time that they could not afford it, or were afraid to invest so heavily, and risk it, and are delighting in the pain of others. My guess is, those who could afford it, and were smart enough to make the billions and billions of ISK to afford it will adapt and will afford the next best thing again, and will overcome, hopefully, what CCP has planned - and it will still mean that petty whiners who could not adapt to the game, are still going to be whining. They still have the best equiptment and it still give a bonus to the same stat, a bonus that people who don't have the items won't have... whats the problem again?
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:21:00 - [45] A fool and his 2,400,000,000.00 ISK are soon parted. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:23:00 - [46] Originally by: Matrix Skye Originally by: Xaen They're not decreasing missile or drone speed. So nanos are going to be slaughtered wholesale. So now they'll be more vulnerable (ie, will actually take some damage). That's the point. They're more in line with armor and shield tank. You mean they'll be vastly inferior to the point of being nonviable. A "speed tank" that doesn't mitigate damage is not a tank of any kind. But as I said in my previous post, "that's my talking-out-of-ass analysis without knowing how fast things will be in practice." We'll see on Singularity, but the forecast is not good. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Kneebone	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:35:00 - [47] Originally by: Zeba There is a handy chart in the blog that clearly states the new min/max speed ranges for after the patch. Its almost the same as the old chart only lower overall but with a more defined curve between the classes. In some cases after the patch he will travel even faster relative to certain other classes of ships. And as far as weapons go are the current drone and missiles able to hit a 10kms inty? No you say? Well its seems pretty safe to assume that his nearly 20kms with max skills, impants and gang bonus will keep him immune to enemy fire inline with the original cost of the snakes. Stick to arguing about the UI Xaen as most people tend to agree with you there. There will be a big danger to the Inty pilots that are sitting at the edge between 9kms and 10kms that will be hit hard by this. Inty's are fast ships, they are supposed to be fast ships. Over time people realised that speed is what keeps an Inty alive which gave birth to Nano's. Its hard to speculate until the testing and new fits come along, but Inty's will suffer in the long run.
Flem'berk	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:38:00 - [48] You only paid what other players made you pay - ccp isnt responisble for that, otherwise scamming people on the market would be no fun now would it. As it happens I made a nice profit on some domination warp scramblers so swings and round abouts all round.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:40:00 - [49] I want reimbursed for my x-large cap batteries and my mines. I want reimbursed for my mines too. Look at it this way, at least there will still be snake implants in the game. /never forget ------------------------------ of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:42:00 - [50] Originally by: Skaaj They still have the best equiptment and it still give a bonus to the same stat, a bonus that people who don't have the items won't have... whats the problem again? Not a problem mate, just an observation. People seem to equate those who have "Speedy Gonzales" setups, who can afford it rather, with the "nano issue." And just going by the percentages, it did not make sense. As, I said, just an observation.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:42:00 - [51] Edited by: Shadowsword on 25/07/2008 18:43:32 Originally by: Sid Zero Originally by: Wendat Huron Things change, deal. I have no qualms about dealing with change - THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I INVESTED IN NANO **ING SHIPS! I'm not upset about having to deal with change, bring it on, might even be fun. I'm upset about paying 2.4 billion Isk** for a product, and then having to settle for something that I would not have bought in the first place. Here's a hint you can use as a general rule to avoid such infortunes in the futur. If something is sold 2.4B while it doesn't cost anywhere as much to produce, it's either a new thing (novelty factor), or something this is perceived as overpowered. If something is perceived as overpowered, odds are that it really is. If something really is overpowered, it's going to end up nerfed. You understand the logic? Because you didn't before, it cost you money. CCP doesn't own you anything, it's your own fault you invested on an unstable state of affairs... ------------------------------------------
Grath Telkin Amarr Evolving Paradigms	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:43:00 - [52] See, this is the awesome part. Your all "hey, you spent the money, deal with the changes". The funny bit is that when they were going to Nerf the crap out of Carriers and MoM's there was a 100+ page thread with the same argument against the nerf: "I trained, spent the money, and learned to fly it, you shouldn't do this" But thats ok cause this is different right? Wrong. Speed is game breaking? Ok, I'll give you that, but NOT un-stopable, as has been demonstrated hundreds of times Carriers are game breaking. True story, Fighter drones create immense lag, to the point of being ******ed and unplayable. There is no counter for that. You cannot stop the lag that the fighters and drones cause. So I guess we can expect CCP to do the RIGHT THING and go through with the carrier nerf then right? Since were all so interested in fair gameplay and all that
Doc Fury	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:47:00 - [53] Originally by: Sid Zero HG Snakes - Removal and Reimbursal Good luck getting reimbursed, CCP still hasn't fixed or reimbursed the people in this thread after a year of promising to do something. It's even an official "CSM issue". Maybe if you bribe a CSM member your problem can become an "official issue" too? The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder and politics will foam up about their waists and all the world will look up and shout 'Save us!'.. and I will look down and whisper, 'No'..
Macareus	Posted - 2008.07.25 19:07:00 - [54] Edited by: Macareus on 25/07/2008 19:07:54 10/10 Nice trolling! EDIT: If you're really enough of a noob to actually bother posting this as a legitimate question, gb2wow or buy 3bil more ISK.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2008.07.25 19:11:00 - [55] Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. I hope you don't run into too many drones or missiles post patch. Zzz research towers Direrie NEW: Liekuri 20:1 low-end compression
Wideen Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.25 19:17:00 - [56] All the changes are relative to one another, hence your HG snakes will still be creme dela creme
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.07.25 19:20:00 - [57] Originally by: Lord Drax i bought video player and they invented dvd years later, i want to be reimbursed. Correct analogy would be to say I bought a DVD player and they took it from me and gave me a video player, i want to be reimbursed SKUN
Faife Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.07.25 19:39:00 - [58] i'm not much interested in the nerf but god i love the whining - -
Major Stallion The Dark Horses	Posted - 2008.07.25 19:52:00 - [59] Originally by: Sid Zero Originally by: Wendat Huron Things change, deal. I have no qualms about dealing with change - THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I INVESTED IN NANO **ING SHIPS! I'm not upset about having to deal with change, bring it on, might even be fun. I'm upset about paying 2.4 billion Isk for a product, and then having to settle for something that I would not have bought in the first place. whos fault it it that you paid so much? No one put a gun to your head and said "PAY 2.4BIL NOW IF U WANT TO GO FAST". You payed what you thought they were worth at the time. Now they arent worth it you're suffering from an extreme case of buyers' remoser. Get a **ing clue.
Beltantis Torrence	Posted - 2008.07.25 19:59:00 - [60] Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. Except missiles and guns...
Lolarina	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:02:00 - [61] don't buy if you can't afford it getting nerfed
Delos Korelian	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:02:00 - [62] Well, OK, there is no point for HG Snakes on most of the ships anymore. So, they will go down in price to something reasonable, and then stabilize as less people will run missions to get them. So all of this means that there will be some semblance of balance in game, soon. Why do you think you need to be reimbursed? No one forced you to buy something that got nerfed.
Jenny' JoJo Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:08:00 - [63] Would you reimburse your victims? You can still use snakes and still can do so for month or two or however many months it takes for them to nerf nano. So get your 2.4bil worth of nano through asap. Refresh to see next real life CCP Sig(25 total)
Neth'Rae Gallente Decorum Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:12:00 - [64] So if something gets boosted you have to pay CCP because it increases in price? Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Sid Zero	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:13:00 - [65] Originally by: Delos Korelian Why do you think you need to be reimbursed? No one forced you to buy something that got nerfed. tbh I was just in shock, and a bit emotional after reading the dev blog, and don't really expect reimbursement. But this is a logical argument for reimbursal: In real life, nothing gets nerfed. The density of water doesn't just suddenly change, the taste of carrots stays relatively constant, the earth goes around the sun. Oranges don't spontaneously turn into zebra excrement. Now if CCP takes a constant decision to turn all the oranges in the game into zebra excrement, can't they just put an amount of isk equal to a conservative estimate of the difference in value between oranges and zebra excrement into the wallets of all the people who are now stuck with zebra excrement? PS: I know it's not happening so I'm just going to keep the snakes and work on a post nerf nano-AB Deimos fit. I'm sure to lose the 'plants soon enough
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:18:00 - [66] CCP never should have started with reimbursing stuff, personally I hope there will be a day when they will come to their senses.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:28:00 - [67] Originally by: Sid Zero tbh I was just in shock, and a bit emotional after reading the dev blog, and don't really expect reimbursement. But this is a logical argument for reimbursal: In real life, nothing gets nerfed. The density of water doesn't just suddenly change, the taste of carrots stays relatively constant, the earth goes around the sun. Oranges don't spontaneously turn into zebra excrement. Now if CCP takes a constant decision to turn all the oranges in the game into zebra excrement, can't they just put an amount of isk equal to a conservative estimate of the difference in value between oranges and zebra excrement into the wallets of all the people who are now stuck with zebra excrement? PS: I know it's not happening so I'm just going to keep the snakes and work on a post nerf nano-AB Deimos fit. I'm sure to lose the 'plants soon enough This was actually funny and insightful, you are not the only one in the similar boat. I have a full set of HG snakes and extremley expensive "speed" setup. I am talking Gistum A-Type stuff.. and well, nothing lasts forever, but I got the set for myself when they first came out, within a month, as I did with Shaqil's implant - still I was stunned, and thought I was having a hallucination. My hope, perhaps, is that CCP will truly test all the options and it will indeed bring balance to the parts of the game, but what I do not want to see is a knee-jerk reaction to all the whines - of the people who are laughing at us now - for investing into HG Snake sets and speed setups and calling it a "nano-problem," since the percentage of people who are fully invested into "Speedy Gonzales" setups is so minimal it could never have been the source if the whine. My guess is, and this pretty much on the money I think, it is the most people used Offline tool to fit the ships with full "Speedy Gonzales"set, and realized how powerful it really was, combined with regular run of the mill greed and jealousy they begrudged the few the possibility of even having it. Not that they actually, in their majority ever came under the guns of someone who has fully invested in the setup - it is the thought of it, that they could not stand. Whatever, we shall see.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:37:00 - [68] Originally by: Sid Zero Edited by: Sid Zero on 25/07/2008 20:20:48 Originally by: Delos Korelian Why do you think you need to be reimbursed? No one forced you to buy something that got nerfed. tbh I was just in shock, and a bit emotional after reading the dev blog, and don't really expect reimbursement. But this is a logical argument for reimbursal: In real life, nothing gets nerfed. The density of water doesn't just suddenly change, the taste of carrots stays relatively constant, the earth goes around the sun. Oranges don't spontaneously turn into zebra excrement. Now if CCP makes a conscious decision to turn all the oranges in the game into zebra excrement, can't they just put an amount of isk equal to a conservative estimate of the difference in value between oranges and zebra excrement into the wallets of all the people who are now stuck with zebra excrement? PS: I know it's not happening so I'm just going to keep the snakes and work on a post nerf nano-AB Deimos fit. I'm sure to lose the 'plants soon enough Snake pilots might be the only things left in the universe that can effectively nano. Instead of finding yourself a hawk among slower hawks, you might just be the hawk among pigeons. Wait and see. And a Diemost? Seriously? - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:38:00 - [69] Jinx do you honestly think the dev's are jealous of your expensive setup ?
Jenny' JoJo Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:40:00 - [70] Originally by: Sid Zero But this is a logical argument for reimbursal: In real life, nothing gets nerfed. The density of water doesn't just suddenly change, the taste of carrots stays relatively constant, the earth goes around the sun. Oranges don't spontaneously turn into zebra excrement. Now if CCP makes a conscious decision to turn all the oranges in the game into zebra excrement, can't they just put an amount of isk equal to a conservative estimate of the difference in value between oranges and zebra excrement into the wallets of all the people who are now stuck with zebra excrement? Real Life Anologies eh? Ok. Look at Speed - F1 Racing. The first time a Racer used a Afterburner, he won easaly. The one and only race where it got banned straight after. It got nerfed so F1 remains competitive. So nerfs do happen in real life. Joe Bloggs takes 1000$ home each month. Goverment tax goes up and he takes home 900$. His wages got nerfed even though he still does the same. Nano nerf is because nano breaks game mechanics. Thats the issue here Refresh to see next real life CCP Sig(25 total)
Sid Zero	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:41:00 - [71] Originally by: Sirial Soulfly Jinx do you honestly think the dev's are jealous of your expensive setup ? NO U!!!!!
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:42:00 - [72] Originally by: Jinx Barker My guess is, and this pretty much on the money I think, it is the most people used Offline tool to fit the ships with full "Speedy Gonzales"set, and realized how powerful it really was, combined with regular run of the mill greed and jealousy they begrudged the few the possibility of even having it. Not that they actually, in their majority ever came under the guns of someone who has fully invested in the setup - it is the thought of it, that they could not stand. I think it was more along the lines of: 1) Get butthurt by experienced pvpers that happened to be nanoing. 2) Exaggerate the problem and whine loudly on the forums. Very few people can actually attain and sustain game engine breaking speeds in anything but an interceptor. My nano curse has always take significant damage, from even regular heavy missiles. My vagabond can only MWD intermittently, and so takes some heavy hits, then some negiligble ones. My brief stay in a nano ishtar was met with the sad realization that my drones were utterly sacrificed each time I deployed them, then subsequently sold in jita. And none of them were ever invulnerable. I've lost two curses in the last month and a vagabond not too long ago. All three were my own mistake, and extremely costly. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
LetsDoThis	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:52:00 - [73] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. People keep saying this but it's dead wrong. They're not decreasing missile or drone speed. So nanos are going to be slaughtered wholesale. Admittedly, that's my talking-out-of-ass analysis without knowing how fast things will be in practice. But at least it accounted for more relevant facts than yours. They defined too fast as being able to outrun drones and missles, so being able to not take damage from those sources is clearly not intended.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:54:00 - [74] Originally by: Sirial Soulfly Jinx do you honestly think the dev's are jealous of your expensive setup ? I was not referring to Devs, I was referring to armchair specialist with EVEFIT tools. Try to read more carefully.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:26:00 - [75] I never got the chance to use snakes while they were uber. This is not fair. I demain CCP reimburse me for this missed oppurtunity. Originally by: Meridius Dex I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:32:00 - [76] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Sid Zero Originally by: Haradgrim Don't fly it if you can't afford to loose it. quoting this for truth... Quoting for 0% relevance. DID I JUST GET RAINBOW TROLLED?? srslythgh, Do you actually type out those colours or do you have a program/macro? -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Napro Caldari Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:35:00 - [77] You knew this was overpowered. You knew this would get nerfed. No reimbursement
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:43:00 - [78] Edited by: Jinx Barker on 25/07/2008 21:45:46 Originally by: Napro You knew this was overpowered. You knew this would get nerfed. No reimbursement Actually, all the current gloating remarks aside, I want to quote you what developers said about pirate sets during one of the CCP-Player Gatherings: "Each Individual Implant will add a benefit or two, in small percentages. However, there is also an Omega implant, that pretty much does nothing by itself, but when combined with all the other implants of its type will give overall boost to the entire set. This indeed, will be something very, very special." So, when they said very, very special, they did mean it, it was and is very special, only this time they are taking the "special" away. And in no way would it imply that they have had any doubts of the future implementation or issues at the time of introducing those "very special" implants that they knew people will spend allot of effort, time and ISK getting. All of the issues are superficial, when it comes down to it, simply because there are not that many people, I am repeating myself, who actually have a full set of HG Snakes + All other Speed Implants. It was special, it was rare, almost unique, quite elite, and now it is gone. Because of the whiners, and moaners, really, not because EVERY SINGLE NANO SETUP USED HG SNAKES AND SPEED IMPLANTS every time, another example, in my opinion, of baser instincts winning over principals, and CCP caving in to the whining majority. Ok, now, you can go back to gloating.
Terminus adacai Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:45:00 - [79] Originally by: Sid Zero I invested somewhere in the region of 2.4 Billion Isk for a full set of snake implants - the effect of which may be reduced by 50% in a months' time. Should these changes go through, will CCP consider reimbursal upon removal of these implants? Same goes for ships rigged with polycarbon engine housings. I would really appreciate, but frankly do not expect, in the slightest, any kind of official response to this question. Yes, right after I get reimbursed for my nerfed ships and missile skills Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance.
Faife Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:47:00 - [80] Originally by: Lolarina don't buy if you can't afford it getting nerfed pwn and /thread. - -
GallenteCitizen20080615 Gallente Federation War News	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:50:00 - [81] they wont reimburse you because you have recieved the effect of those implants while they wernt "nerfed" so they have been useful to you STFU whining they still do what there designed to do which is make you go faster, cant wait to mop up the other cearbear tears after they attempt to tank again ==D wait should i fit 2 hull repairs or one
3cxO Caldari ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:58:00 - [82] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Matrix Skye Originally by: Xaen They're not decreasing missile or drone speed. So nanos are going to be slaughtered wholesale. So now they'll be more vulnerable (ie, will actually take some damage). That's the point. They're more in line with armor and shield tank. You mean they'll be vastly inferior to the point of being hit by stuff. A "speed tank" that doesn't nullify damage is not a tank of any kind. But as I said in my previous post, "that's my talking-out-of-ass analysis without whining about how fast things used to be". We'll see on Singularity, but the forecast is not good. Fixed for great justice!!
Delos Korelian	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:58:00 - [83] I am laughing at all the moaning that nanomoaners who just 24 hours ago were complaining bitterly, and now, the situation is reversed and all of them are rejoicing in the pain of others. Goes to show you how people are truly, really are, and EVE is perfect for it, brings out the lowest common denominator. I guess you all are collecting your pound of flesh now, he? Now it will be: awww damn, I am just shooting him while he is ABing away! Or: missile boats are overpowered, nerf them!
justsometrader	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:08:00 - [84] Originally by: Delos Korelian I am laughing at all the moaning that nanomoaners who just 24 hours ago were complaining bitterly, and now, the situation is reversed and all of them are rejoicing in the pain of others. Goes to show you how people are truly, really are, and EVE is perfect for it, brings out the lowest common denominator. I guess you all are collecting your pound of flesh now, he? Now it will be: awww damn, I am just shooting him while he is ABing away! Or: missile boats are overpowered, nerf them! you had a nanoboat right ? just contract it to me, i¦ll buy it for the mineral price
GallenteCitizen20080615 Gallente Federation War News	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:09:00 - [85] Edited by: GallenteCitizen20080615 on 25/07/2008 22:09:32 cant wait for the AB kills bit ironic that 24 hours ago the naners were saying adapt and now they are moaning because they have to do the same so glad i fall into none of these categories
Delos Korelian	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:16:00 - [86] Originally by: justsometrader Originally by: Delos Korelian I am laughing at all the moaning that nanomoaners who just 24 hours ago were complaining bitterly, and now, the situation is reversed and all of them are rejoicing in the pain of others. Goes to show you how people are truly, really are, and EVE is perfect for it, brings out the lowest common denominator. I guess you all are collecting your pound of flesh now, he? Now it will be: awww damn, I am just shooting him while he is ABing away! Or: missile boats are overpowered, nerf them! you had a nanoboat right ? just contract it to me, i¦ll buy it for the mineral price Have you looked at my age? I mean character age? You joking right? I am returning player, but not necessarily a stupid one. I can see that you and people like are just enjoying it immensely, and are simply wallowing in other's discomfort. All it will mean that those with ISK who probably have more of it then you and your poor buddies will ever see in your lifetimes in eve will find other way make more isk, and will still outspend you and outperform you despite the insipid remarks you all make. I do not like either one of you, the rich bums who spend bazzilions on the snake sets, the other bums who are now dancing around the charred flesh because they could never afford it, does not matter. I am just enjoying the parade, and that is it.
Xaen Caldari Caritas.	Posted - 2008.07.29 01:56:00 - [87] Originally by: Haradgrim Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Sid Zero Originally by: Haradgrim Don't fly it if you can't afford to loose it. quoting this for truth... Quoting for 0% relevance. DID I JUST GET RAINBOW TROLLED?? srslythgh, Do you actually type out those colours or do you have a program/macro? I have a java program I wrote in an afternoon. Works on PHP BB too with a different command line option. - Support fixing the UI\|Suggest Jita fixes\|Compact logs
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2008.07.29 02:06:00 - [88] lol no.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.07.29 02:10:00 - [89] Originally by: Beltantis Torrence Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. Except missiles and guns... Which is the whole point of the proposed changes... Now what I expect to happen after the changes is that your previously 99% invulnerable ship will drop down to about 75% invulnerable. Meaning you will eventually have to warp away or make a quick run out your attackers optimal to make sure your nonexistant tank doesn't fold up on you. But guess what? You still get to warp away and dictate the range at your leasure. Speed tanks are now balanced vs other tanks in that they buy you time not immunity with moar skills and better mods buying you even moar time. But at the end of the day your still going to go really fast compared to your normal targets of choice. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Delos Korelian	Posted - 2008.07.29 02:38:00 - [90] Originally by: Zeba Now what I expect to happen after the changes is that your previously 99% invulnerable ship will drop down to about 75% invulnerable.] Have you been on sis yet? Have you tested the changes yet? 75% invulnerable my left foot. Try pretty much killable. And, this is not taking into account all the things which are done to balsterboats, the change is too harsh, it really is. I mean, what the hell, test it before you come here and tell us 75% chance of escape. A Rifter can pretty much hold Vaga hostage, even 5 bill vaga with snakes. Add to it couple of damage dealers, and forget about 4-6 billion ISK vaga. Go to sisi, and take a look, use your imagination with fittings, and do not forget to overlaod your modules, and see what happens to HG Snaked pilot now. Anyway, I would suggest to give all snaked up pilots an ability to remove their implants w/o destroying them, as least of the concession. As they stand now they are useless. I do not think any type of reimbursement is possible anyway, since no one forced anyone to buy them. On the other hand, some sort of concession has to come into play.
Titan Pilot Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.07.29 02:40:00 - [91] What Xaen said earlier is exactly my thoughts. Snakes might be the only way to nano and have fun. Demand may actually increase because whenever there is a way to rise above the crowd, people will pay for it. And consider with only 60% webs, slower base speeds, smaller bubbles (they reduced their size btw) and weaker Ceptors, HG Snake piloting ships maybe our last hope. And before anyone says, that we were fine before nanos. Yes, but now with Cyno jammers, Titans and Motherships, things have changed alot.
Shiho Weitong Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.29 03:00:00 - [92] Edited by: Shiho Weitong on 29/07/2008 03:03:07 Edited by: Shiho Weitong on 29/07/2008 03:01:56 Originally by: HankMurphy I want reimbursed for my mines too I'll take those off your hands, if the price is right... ^^ Oh. And what to do with your HG snakes before the nerf. [Drake, NanoLol] Inertia Stabilizers II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Republic Fleet 10MN MicroWarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II Assault Missile Launcher II, Dread Guristas Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Dread Guristas Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Dread Guristas Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Dread Guristas Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Dread Guristas Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Dread Guristas Bloodclaw Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Dread Guristas Bloodclaw Light Missile Medium Nosferatu II Polycarbon Engine Housing II Polycarbon Engine Housing II Auxiliary Thrusters I Hobgoblin II x5 Maybe not the "optimal fit. But it's a drake that goes about 6k when overloading, and will run for at least 5 minutes. Ed: Oh yeah and it's dps is only about 230, And it's EHP is 35k-ish. ----------------------- Why is it called common sense, when it's clearly very rare. I had a mind once, but alas, I seem to have forgotten where I left it.
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2008.07.29 03:57:00 - [93] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. If I fly 10 times faster then the person trying to kill me, but he is doing 1 meter/sec and im doing 10 m/s - Im not going to outrun his tackle/damage modules which have remained the same. SKUNK I thought webs were getting nerfed? Well.. it's something... ________ Originally by: Tarminic I believe your mother should have re-rolled her birth control.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Naval Protection Corp Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.07.29 04:21:00 - [94] Originally by: Sid Zero Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. Frankly I don't want them anymore. It's like buying a beer and then just as your about to drink it they swap it for strawberry flavoured milk and say oops we actually didn't sell you a beer we sold you a strawberry flavoured milk. I don't want strawberry flavoured milk. But the cup's half ****ing empty! Go away you straggler!
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2008.07.29 04:47:00 - [95] Go get yourself Podded. I'm pretty sure that will remove said implants. Also.. send me 2.4 bil and I can remove them for you if you would like. DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale! THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!
Amanda Wilkins Caldari Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum	Posted - 2008.07.29 05:49:00 - [96] Originally by: Sid Zero Originally by: Malcanis Drake, for maximum irony. I am in posession of a drake fitted with 3x polys. I'm thinking it'll either be that one, or my Navy Caracal fitted with 3x polys, and a Gistum B-type MWD. 6000m/s I kid you not. Fleet Stabber could also be awesome. Considering the staggering amount of ISK you have put into your nano ships and your snake implants, I think you must have been one of those who have really had full value for your ISK - because I dare say you have been using those implants for a while and to the detriment of a lot of others. I am not in support of the nano nerf, but by goodness, you are a whiner and should really accept that you paid for a product that is now worth less, too bad. I am sure a lot of Hulk pilots are sad they invested a huge amount of ISK when getting a Hulk was the most expensive, yet I think they kind of adapted, and I think maybe they are even happy now that the Hulk prices are down. Be glad that replacing all the polycarbs on your nano ships when they get blown up is now going to be less expensive. And grab some cheese with that whine. Whine alone is not healthy, you know. Amanda Wilkins CEO of Dromedary, Goat, Albatross and Fish Protector of the Bunnies of Stain ... because we DGAF!
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.07.29 05:52:00 - [97] Originally by: Sid Zero I invested somewhere in the region of 2.4 Billion Isk for a full set of snake implants - the effect of which may be reduced by 50% in a months' time. Should these changes go through, will CCP consider reimbursal upon removal of these implants? Same goes for ships rigged with polycarbon engine housings. I would really appreciate, but frankly do not expect, in the slightest, any kind of official response to this question. nano wont be dead, just be more difficult to fly. with the webs being reduced you still have the chance to run.
Togg Bott Minmatar 801	Posted - 2008.07.29 05:58:00 - [98] meh... change will have to happen
Thommy	Posted - 2008.07.29 06:32:00 - [99] The people who say things like 'i bought something and now it is changed any kind of reimbursement would be nice' are in their rights to ask for that considering that these game changes have effects where they according to the dev blog are not intended. Afterburners would be better but they are also nerfed directly and indirectly even though this blog says it is meant for the speeds from mwd's. The compensation here should be something to hold the afterburners on par with an maxed setup (pilot with all speed implants and full skillset) where the lowered stats would have their effects on the MWD like it is supposed to. Also for the people who respond with unrealistic responses like i got product a and now they invented product b i will explain why this is the wrong kind of comparison. It is not 2 different products its the same one which is going to be changed. Compare it with that you bought an computer with an 8800GTX, 4 gig's of memory and an quad core 3500 proc. You spend ALL your life saveings on it and maybe even got a bit of debt for it. Now duo to an error made by the producer of these products they get an new firmware bringing them to their 'true' specs and there is nothing you can do about it and you cannot undo it. Their new specs are about 50% as effective as the original thing was. Would you not be mad and demand compensation? In effect it is the same as what ccp is doing it ALSO takes away from reallife commitments directly or indirectly because: - There was reallife time spend to get enough isk (or the item drops). - People paid their subscription for an x ammount of time to be able to aquire enough money or the items. This is the reason why people primarely get mad about these kind of changes and the fact that even when they have the desired effect on one place they always have often worse consequences where they where NOT intended. Asside of that i put out a few questions directed to ccp which i think are reasonable and expectable questions which can be found here. I do not think those questions are unrealistic but because of the huge ammounts of replies they might be buried away to fast before any CCP official can even get to them and has the possibility to answer them. Guide \| Patch day
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.07.29 07:08:00 - [100] Edited by: Havohej on 29/07/2008 07:13:29 Originally by: Lui Kai Nom nom nom nom Stole ur gif. @OP: "Game experience may change during online play." You pays your ISKs and you takes your chances... I hope my Stiletto w/gistii b-type and polys will still be nice since interceptors look to be staying fast. Prolly gonna get stuck with a worthless MWD as I seek out a gistii AB though EDIT: Originally by: Thommy The people who say things like 'i bought something and now it is changed any kind of reimbursement would be nice' are in their rights to ask for that considering that these game changes have effects where they according to the dev blog are not intended. The first line of the EULA: EVE« Online END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT ESRB Notice: Game Experience May Change During Online Play Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2008.07.29 07:41:00 - [101] I demand reimbursement for losses due to trading of nerfed modules. !!!
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.07.29 07:45:00 - [102] Originally by: Delos Korelian Originally by: Zeba Now what I expect to happen after the changes is that your previously 99% invulnerable ship will drop down to about 75% invulnerable.] Go to sisi, and take a look, use your imagination with fittings, and do not forget to overlaod your modules, and see what happens to HG Snaked pilot now. Hmmm.. Seems my expectations were a little too optimistic. Huginn before changes was almost hitting 7000ms and now at 2901ms with a Claw topping out at 7093ms when it was hitting nearly 20k ms before. Yeow. If this makes it to TQ then nano in all forms is no more. Looks like the biggest factor in the massive slowdown is that reduced mass is no longer a bonus for any mod with the result that you can no longer use both your rig slots and low slots to effectively speed tank or in certain cases just your low slots. The hac reduction I'm not really all that concerned about as they really needed it badly but an inty with full hg snake plus 5% hardwiring with t2 fit only topping out at 7000ms? I didn'd dare take out the snakes and 5% to see what a normal fit inty that 99% of eve flys would do. KK op has a point it seems. Let just hope the disclamer on the top of the dev blog is true. So as many people as can be arsed need to hop on sisi and try them out and come back to post some logical feedback. So far I don't think all of the change is bad but certain areas like inty speed seems a bit ahh.. overnerfed as it were. Originally by: CCP Nohz Attention! The modifications discussed below are all subject to change, based on player input and testing experience. Holding CCP to this. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
L33T Lobo Trouble Every Day	Posted - 2008.07.29 08:12:00 - [103] Originally by: Jinx Barker Edited by: Jinx Barker on 25/07/2008 21:45:46 Originally by: Napro You knew this was overpowered. You knew this would get nerfed. No reimbursement Actually, all the current gloating remarks aside, I want to quote you what developers said about pirate sets during one of the CCP-Player Gatherings: "Each Individual Implant will add a benefit or two, in small percentages. However, there is also an Omega implant, that pretty much does nothing by itself, but when combined with all the other implants of its type will give overall boost to the entire set. This indeed, will be something very, very special." So, when they said very, very special, they did mean it, it was and is very special, only this time they are taking the "special" away. And in no way would it imply that they have had any doubts of the future implementation or issues at the time of introducing those "very special" implants that they knew people will spend allot of effort, time and ISK getting. All of the issues are superficial, when it comes down to it, simply because there are not that many people, I am repeating myself, who actually have a full set of HG Snakes + All other Speed Implants. It was special, it was rare, almost unique, quite elite, and now it is gone. Because of the whiners, and moaners, really, not because EVERY SINGLE NANO SETUP USED HG SNAKES AND SPEED IMPLANTS every time, another example, in my opinion, of baser instincts winning over principals, and CCP caving in to the whining majority. Ok, now, you can go back to gloating. Are you trying to say that not all nano pilots could afford HG Snake sets ???? But the whiner alts told me so..!!! Serously, as someone how has spent the last few years doing nothing but pvp. In all the corps i have been in, I have maybe come across maybe 2 people that can afford HG Snakes. But if you read some of the new dev posts they act like everyone is flying round with them. Note to devs, just because you can spawn it instantly does not mean the rest of us can, we have to work hard for such things if we want them. And no, i have never been rich enough to afford them and use them in pvp.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.07.29 08:12:00 - [104] Originally by: Sid Zero I invested somewhere in the region of 2.4 Billion Isk for a full set of snake implants - the effect of which may be reduced by 50% in a months' time. Should these changes go through, will CCP consider reimbursal upon removal of these implants? Same goes for ships rigged with polycarbon engine housings. I would really appreciate, but frankly do not expect, in the slightest, any kind of official response to this question. Meh. You've had your fun now it's payback. If you're new to MMORPGs then you've learnt an important lesson about them. There is always a 'super duper uber' option. It always gets nerfed. That's the way it has to be. Game developers cannot allow extremely unbalanced game play for very long. In your case you paid 2.4 billion to be nearly invulnerable and irritate the hell out of everyone else. Now the party's over and it's time for the hangover. Next time avoid the uber setup or else accept that the price you pay for using it will be high. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
L33T Lobo Trouble Every Day	Posted - 2008.07.29 08:16:00 - [105] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Sid Zero I invested somewhere in the region of 2.4 Billion Isk for a full set of snake implants - the effect of which may be reduced by 50% in a months' time. Should these changes go through, will CCP consider reimbursal upon removal of these implants? Same goes for ships rigged with polycarbon engine housings. I would really appreciate, but frankly do not expect, in the slightest, any kind of official response to this question. Meh. You've had your fun now it's payback. If you're new to MMORPGs then you've learnt an important lesson about them. There is always a 'super duper uber' option. It always gets nerfed. That's the way it has to be. Game developers cannot allow extremely unbalanced game play for very long. In your case you paid 2.4 billion to be nearly invulnerable and irritate the hell out of everyone else. Now the party's over and it's time for the hangover. Next time avoid the uber setup or else accept that the price you pay for using it will be high. Yeah! next time just avoid tactics and fits that work! Just stick to fitting ships up for comedy killmails and you will be fine
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.29 08:20:00 - [106] Originally by: L33T Lobo Yeah! next time just avoid tactics and fits that work! Just stick to fitting ships up for comedy killmails and you will be fine Investing all your ISK into the most popular thing is nearly always a bad idea. But, hey, if you had HG snakes for that long, they paid themselves off, right? Or, if they didn't pay themselves off in a year (which is how long FOTMs generally last), why the hell did you buy them at the price? Isn't something which pays itself off in over a year inherently overpriced? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Angela Toren Amarr Toren Shipyards	Posted - 2008.07.29 09:22:00 - [107] Originally by: Sid Zero I invested somewhere in the region of 2.4 Billion Isk for a full set of snake implants No one told you to pay 2.4 billion... I got my set well before the nano craze and it only cost 50 mil for the entire set. I would LOL but that would be cruel. _______ Oh Mindy...
Sorted Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.07.29 10:29:00 - [108] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. If I fly 10 times faster then the person trying to kill me, but he is doing 1 meter/sec and im doing 10 m/s - Im not going to outrun his tackle/damage modules which have remained the same. SKUNK Yes. But your investment to % increase is outa whack. 52% for 3Billion sounds alot nicer than 24% for 3Billion.
Reven Cordelle Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.07.29 10:34:00 - [109] 2.4 billion isk implants? HG Snakes? Nano? Reimbursal? Back in my day we flew AC Rifters without implants or nano mods. The most we'd spend on a ship would be a mil and most of that was in T2 ammo. You young'ns these days rely on your fat wallets and shiny plugins for your noggins.. you need to get back to your roots! If you go-fast kids are going to spend all your iskies on expensive shiny crap like that, you deserve to get screwed over by balancing issues! You should be spendin' that money on women, drink, woodbines and grain alcohol. Thats how real men flew, drunk and in the company of a lady of the night. Not zippin' around tha' place in some "nano'd" ship like a bluebottle on speed. Like theres any honor in survivin' by runnin' away.
Sid Zero	Posted - 2008.07.29 10:39:00 - [110] It's funny that this thread is still floating around here... Just for the record, I've decided to keep the snakes, after seeing what AFs will be able to do with them after the nerf(which I now support 100%) goes through.
justsometrader	Posted - 2008.07.29 11:08:00 - [111] Originally by: Reven Cordelle 2.4 billion isk implants? HG Snakes? Nano? Reimbursal? Back in my day we flew AC Rifters without implants or nano mods. The most we'd spend on a ship would be a mil and most of that was in T2 ammo. You young'ns these days rely on your fat wallets and shiny plugins for your noggins.. you need to get back to your roots! If you go-fast kids are going to spend all your iskies on expensive shiny crap like that, you deserve to get screwed over by balancing issues! You should be spendin' that money on women, drink, woodbines and grain alcohol. Thats how real men flew, drunk and in the company of a lady of the night. Not zippin' around tha' place in some "nano'd" ship like a bluebottle on speed. Like theres any honor in survivin' by runnin' away. thank you sir, this post made the /THREAD
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.07.29 11:13:00 - [112] Originally by: Sid Zero Just for the record, I've decided to keep the snakes, after seeing what AFs will be able to do with them after the nerf(which I now support 100%) goes through. Quoting, bolding and coloring to get the attention of any further posters. Sid has seen the light so let him be. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Arana Tellen Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.07.29 11:22:00 - [113] The thing is you still have the set and its perfectly valid for certain tactics.... --------------------------------- Oh noes! Originally by: CCP Greyscale moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal
Call'Da Poleece Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.29 11:24:00 - [114] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Sid Zero Just for the record, I've decided to keep the snakes, after seeing what AFs will be able to do with them after the nerf(which I now support 100%) goes through. Quoting, bolding and coloring to get the attention of any further posters. Sid has seen the light so let him be. He's still a numpty for paying that much isk for a FOTM
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.07.29 11:53:00 - [115] I'd ask for your stuff but it sounds like you spent it all on some worthless implants
Watyu Minmatar Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.07.29 12:04:00 - [116] Originally by: Sid Zero I invested somewhere in the region of 2.4 Billion Isk for a full set of snake implants - the effect of which may be reduced by 50% in a months' time. Should these changes go through, will CCP consider reimbursal upon removal of these implants? Same goes for ships rigged with polycarbon engine housings. I would really appreciate, but frankly do not expect, in the slightest, any kind of official response to this question. A wheel falling of the bandwagon is never pleasant for it's pasangers. If you don't like losing billions of investment then don't invest it in the first place.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.29 12:20:00 - [117] People moaning about their expensive implants getting nerfed is pretty laffo. Exactly why were those implants so expensive in the first place do you think? Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Angelice Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.07.29 12:58:00 - [118] To be honest spending that much ISK on mere implants in the first place is the root cause of your grief and not the nerfs they are now bringing in. You got caught up in market hype and now it's cost you... Angelice Infinity Enterprises "To see the right and not to do it is cowardice." - Confucius
Bowlo Cheeba Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.07.29 13:14:00 - [119] You want your isk back for that? Going by what you have said, you have been flying around for a while with this set in your head, and surviving multiple pvp encounters with your shiny ship and implants intact? Consider yourself lucky just for that alone. Imagine the ppl who drop 1 or 2 Bil on their ship on a regular basis, and fly into battle, and get killed before they get to kill anyone at all. Would they all get reimbursed? They got less use out of their investment than you did. Someone is bound to get stuck with some overpriced items, all the time. It's part of the nature of an economy based game like this one. You thought it was a worthy investment at the time, and you got your use out of it. On a side note, anyone want to buy some named nanofibers ?
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.29 16:43:00 - [120] Originally by: Bowlo Cheeba You want your isk back for that? Going by what you have said, you have been flying around for a while with this set in your head, and surviving multiple pvp encounters with your shiny ship and implants intact? Consider yourself lucky just for that alone. Imagine the ppl who drop 1 or 2 Bil on their ship on a regular basis, and fly into battle, and get killed before they get to kill anyone at all. Would they all get reimbursed? They got less use out of their investment than you did. Someone is bound to get stuck with some overpriced items, all the time. It's part of the nature of an economy based game like this one. You thought it was a worthy investment at the time, and you got your use out of it. On a side note, anyone want to buy some named nanofibers ? Yeah but this guy isn't losing money cause he sucks at the game. He's doing it because CCP go back on years of consistency. --
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.29 16:48:00 - [121] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Yeah but this guy isn't losing money cause he sucks at the game. He's doing it because CCP go back on years of consistency. What consistency? CCP has been boosting and nerfing things from the beginning of time. Should people have gotten reimbursed for 5 or their 8 damage mods when CCP introduced stacking penalties? Let's go the opposite ways - let's say I sold an assault ship for 10 mil last week, and now that same ship sells for 20 million ISK. Do I have the right to ask CCP to reimburse the extra 10 mill that I lost out on when I sold that assault ship? There's no difference between the scenario I just described and wanting reimbursements for items you already purchased, implants included. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Slanty McGarglefist	Posted - 2008.07.29 16:51:00 - [122] I'm tired of all these mother**ing Snakes in my mothering head! Samuel L Jackson wins! Fatality __________________________________________________ Originally by:** CCP Wrangler No Doh!
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.29 16:51:00 - [123] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Marcus Druallis Yeah but this guy isn't losing money cause he sucks at the game. He's doing it because CCP go back on years of consistency. What consistency? CCP has been boosting and nerfing things from the beginning of time. Should people have gotten reimbursed for 5 or their 8 damage mods when CCP introduced stacking penalties? Let's go the opposite ways - let's say I sold an assault ship for 10 mil last week, and now that same ship sells for 20 million ISK. Do I have the right to ask CCP to reimburse the extra 10 mill that I lost out on when I sold that assault ship? There's no difference between the scenario I just described and wanting reimbursements for items you already purchased, implants included. So you support CCP making all faction MWD's give the same boost as T2? How about all those officer mods. What if CCP just made them like T2 with better fittings. You don't think that's a bit of bullshit? --
GallenteCitizen20080615 Gallente Federation War News	Posted - 2008.07.29 16:51:00 - [124] as i have already said you have had use of these modules /skills and so you have used them and so not refundable PWNED Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
sakana North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.29 16:53:00 - [125] Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. apart from missiles, drones or many small/medium guns.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.29 16:53:00 - [126] Originally by: GallenteCitizen20080615 as i have already said you have had use of these modules /skills and so you have used them and so not refundable PWNED I don't even have snakes. Never would, but that's besides the point. Don't get me wrong, I'm not losing any isk from this minus a set of polys. --
GallenteCitizen20080615 Gallente Federation War News	Posted - 2008.07.29 16:54:00 - [127] was aimed at op sorry should of stated Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:20:00 - [128] Originally by: sakana Originally by: Zeba Even though your getting a nerf to your stats your relative speed boost will still be about the same. Meaning that whatever you were outrunning before you can still outrun after the patch. apart from missiles, drones or many small/medium guns. I guess I'll answer this one more time for those who just read that first part of my post and gleefully skipped to the end of the thread after nearly breaking thier mouse rapidly clicking the 'Quote' button: HAHAHAHA UR NANOHACRECONZ GOTZ TEH NANONERFBATZ LULULULZ!! Now we just need to convince CCP that intys were not supposed to be in the same speed nerf bracket as hac/recon. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Avadan Kavadar Caldari PROGENITOR CORPORATION Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:51:00 - [129] Your whine tears satisfy me. But seriously, YOU KNEW that nanos would be nerfed to hell. I mean honestly your just plain stupid if you didn't know they would be nerfed. 1/10 needs tons of caps lock and !!!!11 in it. "Heh, "Knights of Chaos"? The initials KOS??? Kill On Sight? I have a new target corp to hunt down"
Imran Matari Akbar	Posted - 2008.07.29 20:21:00 - [130] Originally by: Sid Zero I invested somewhere in the region of 2.4 Billion Isk for a full set of snake implants - the effect of which may be reduced by 50% in a months' time. Should these changes go through, will CCP consider reimbursal upon removal of these implants? Same goes for ships rigged with polycarbon engine housings. I would really appreciate, but frankly do not expect, in the slightest, any kind of official response to this question. You're telling me you did not see this nano-nerf coming? And now you're whining over reimbursement.LulZ __________________________________________ EwokPoacher: Why hate Gallente? Blackest Sheep: Because we are beautiful.
Kumq uat Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.29 20:21:00 - [131] I want my lolly! ------------------------------------------- www.eve-pirate.com original author and goat molestor. Herrooooooo Kitty!
Sid Zero	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:17:00 - [132] LEEEEEEEEEEEEV SID ALOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONE!!!!!!1! >< theses lasy diks that only read the op then rant should get some mutherfukin IQ implats. PS: why the hell did no-onw post "obvious troll is obvious" after the OP? PS2: crap console PS5: This is my third, and probably not my last, set of HG Snakes. Good day to you sir(s)
Tarminic 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:28:00 - [133] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Marcus Druallis Yeah but this guy isn't losing money cause he sucks at the game. He's doing it because CCP go back on years of consistency. What consistency? CCP has been boosting and nerfing things from the beginning of time. Should people have gotten reimbursed for 5 or their 8 damage mods when CCP introduced stacking penalties? Let's go the opposite ways - let's say I sold an assault ship for 10 mil last week, and now that same ship sells for 20 million ISK. Do I have the right to ask CCP to reimburse the extra 10 mill that I lost out on when I sold that assault ship? There's no difference between the scenario I just described and wanting reimbursements for items you already purchased, implants included. So you support CCP making all faction MWD's give the same boost as T2? How about all those officer mods. What if CCP just made them like T2 with better fittings. You don't think that's a bit of bullshit? I own two Myrmidons. Shove it. This has nothing to do with what changes I do or don't agree with or what affects me personally. The validity of my argument remains, and you did not even attempt to refute it. ---------------- Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.83 (Updated 7/3)
Niblet666	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:31:00 - [134] Lets just think abouth it. u bought a snake set tec 2 policarbon rigs gistum b or a mwd , rouge set u spend 5 or 6 bil to a ship and ur pod then what.. Some people do not know to play eve (there is lots of tactics u can use to take down a nano ship ex: heavy neut , web ect.) said hey its not fair why dont we nerf it?!! BAH!! İf u spend lots of isk and lots of training (means: lots of time) to a ship or a set u want it work and make some difference. But after this nerf 100M COST BS OR 150M COST HAC will take ur ship (that cost bilions) down so easyly.. Oh by the way nano ships can take down easyly by webbers or ceptors with a team work.. Now honestly think abouth it which one is unfair or fair.... x person: Oh most of people using nano lets nerf it!.. goodjob ccp!!! Do some nerfs all the time and make this game more worthless (By this nerf u remove a tanking type from game u make it more easier more same with other "super marrio bross" games) day by day sry for my awsome english its not so cool..
Arous Drephius Alpha Research Group	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:41:00 - [135] Anyone know what happens to people that have a Snake Omega implant as well as the CY-2 (I think) implant plugged into the same clone since post-patch they use the same slot?

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