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Napro Caldari Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:04:00 - [1] After having my first taste of fleet warfare, I'm ready to vomit. Of course the "grid" never loaded and I never saw a single enemy ship. Why not instances? Each system having Victory points open up after being set to vulnerable like in faction warfare, 1 or 2 instances per ship class (Caps, BS/BC, Cruisers/frig/destroyer). Afterall I really dont thing frigs/cruisers/etc have any business flying alongside Caps except to watch the battle Each instance separated on its own node or whatever so that It's not visible or accessible to neutrals in the system and so doesnt have to bug anyone passing thru I guess the devs think the current lagfests are great since they havent bothered to change it after 5 years.. but I'm just killing time til the server comes back up anyway :p any other ideas?
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:06:00 - [2] Originally by: Napro instances - DesuSigs
Zephyr Rengate dearg doom	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:06:00 - [3]
Napro Caldari Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:07:00 - [4] That bad?
Kelron Queldine Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:07:00 - [5] Is this guy a troll or just full of awful ideas?
Napro Caldari Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:08:00 - [6] I don't get how anything can be worse than the game crashing and not being able to play at all Maybe I just don't get Eve
Kelron Queldine Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:10:00 - [7] Because Eve wouldn't be Eve if a gang of neutrals couldn't come along and interfere in somoene else's fight. Making PvP consensual would probably reduce server load too, as would removing the player run economy and replacing it with NPC merchants.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:11:00 - [8] Originally by: Napro I don't get how anything can be worse than the game crashing and not being able to play at all In that case, nothing is worse than fleet battles. So you won't mind not going to them. - DesuSigs
Zephyr Rengate dearg doom	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:11:00 - [9] Edited by: Zephyr Rengate on 26/07/2008 12:11:43 Originally by: Kelron Queldine Is this guy a troll or just full of awful ideas? I think he also said yesterday in another thread the defender missiles are a good counter to missiles. So yer i'm going with ******.
Napro Caldari Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:12:00 - [10] Please explain how a gang of neutrals can come along and interfere on a crashed node.
Napro Caldari Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:15:00 - [11] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Napro I don't get how anything can be worse than the game crashing and not being able to play at all In that case, nothing is worse than fleet battles. So you won't mind not going to them. Yeah I didn't even make it to my first one... You're basically saying I can either be a deadweight on my corp/alliance or suffer thru dead nodes I guess the devs are right to leave this one alone... people seem to have a hardon for blackscreens and invisible enemies.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:15:00 - [12] Originally by: Napro Afterall I really dont thing frigs/cruisers/etc have any business flying alongside Caps except to watch the battle oh jeez Who is supposed to tackle? Quote: Each instance separated on its own node or whatever so that It's not visible or accessible to neutrals in the system and so doesnt have to bug anyone passing thru oh jeez See earlier post about how Eve wouldn't be Eve without "neutrals" messing everything up. Quote: I guess the devs think the current lagfests are great since they havent bothered to change it after 5 years.. but I'm just killing time til the server comes back up anyway :p oh jeez Used to be a ten-man gang caused lag.
Andrest Disch Amarr EXILED WINGS	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:16:00 - [13] Originally by: Napro Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Napro I don't get how anything can be worse than the game crashing and not being able to play at all In that case, nothing is worse than fleet battles. So you won't mind not going to them. Yeah I didn't even make it to my first one... You're basically saying I can either be a deadweight on my corp/alliance or suffer thru dead nodes I guess the devs are right to leave this one alone... people seem to have a hardon for blackscreens and invisible enemies. If you really don't like fleet battles, you have to ask yourself if you're in the right corp/alliance. Join a lowsec corp and have fun in small gangs. Instances are a huge no-no in a game like Eve though.
Kelron Queldine Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Napro Please explain how a gang of neutrals can come along and interfere on a crashed node. Only if you can explain how they can interfere when the involved fleets are locked into their own special little world.
Napro Caldari Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:20:00 - [15] Originally by: Andrest Disch If you really don't like fleet battles, you have to ask yourself if you're in the right corp/alliance. Join a lowsec corp and have fun in small gangs. Instances are a huge no-no in a game like Eve though. Oh I like fleet battles. Never said I didn't like them. I just don't consider that server meltdown I experienced a fleet battle.
Napro Caldari Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:21:00 - [16] Edited by: Napro on 26/07/2008 12:21:19 Originally by: Kelron Queldine Originally by: Napro Please explain how a gang of neutrals can come along and interfere on a crashed node. Only if you can explain how they can interfere when the involved fleets are locked into their own special little world. They can't either way... so what's being lost
Andrest Disch Amarr EXILED WINGS	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:24:00 - [17] Originally by: Napro Originally by: Andrest Disch If you really don't like fleet battles, you have to ask yourself if you're in the right corp/alliance. Join a lowsec corp and have fun in small gangs. Instances are a huge no-no in a game like Eve though. Oh I like fleet battles. Never said I didn't like them. I just don't consider that server meltdown I experienced a fleet battle. Lag has always been apart of fleet battles,which isn't surprising when 200+ people show up to shoot each other with space ships. Instances aren't the right answer, and could/would end up removing alot of the fluidness that makes Eve PvP fun.
Xalorous War Dawgs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:25:00 - [18] They're called support ships. If you split all the shiptypes into separate instances you remove strategy and tactics. Instances do this as well. Send in a small gang as bait, hot drop a cap on them. Can't do that in instanced fights. Or, when you're hot-dropped, bringing in your own caps. Or tackling a titan with a group of HIC's. Agree that not getting to see the fight sucks. Don't think this is the solution. Xalorous --- I hold no position of authority. All comments are my own, and I take sole responsibility for them.
Siddy Minmatar Gay Nationalist Association of Amamake	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:25:00 - [19] Edited by: Siddy on 26/07/2008 12:25:49 you know, usualy i am against anyind of instanccing in EVE... But since the most major fleetbattles are what they are... some sort of pre determined server allocation, if not culd be done. Like making "red server" that will be allocated to some big arse fleet fight. Problem is that with current EVE net system, you need to reboot the whole clusters to be able to reallocate recources. Meaning before the fleetbattle starts, CCP must restart servers. As for toally sepperate instance, wont work. since you must have sepperate database of what EVE is using now, and then merge them after every instane gets done. This will open door to problems with duping and whatnot....
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Napro ...Each instance separated on its own node... Well, this is a big assumption of "this will fix it", yeah? What if it doesn't? Then you killed a major aspect of Eve's everyone in the same pot for pretty much nothing. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Xalorous War Dawgs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:26:00 - [21] Originally by: Napro Edited by: Napro on 26/07/2008 12:21:19 Originally by: Kelron Queldine Originally by: Napro Please explain how a gang of neutrals can come along and interfere on a crashed node. Only if you can explain how they can interfere when the involved fleets are locked into their own special little world. They can't either way... so what's being lost The ability for a neutral fleet to come along and interfere in the fight. Or reinforcements for that matter. Xalorous --- I hold no position of authority. All comments are my own, and I take sole responsibility for them.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:26:00 - [22] Originally by: Napro Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Napro I don't get how anything can be worse than the game crashing and not being able to play at all In that case, nothing is worse than fleet battles. So you won't mind not going to them. Yeah I didn't even make it to my first one... You're basically saying I can either be a deadweight on my corp/alliance or suffer thru dead nodes I guess the devs are right to leave this one alone... people seem to have a hardon for blackscreens and invisible enemies. Fleet battle lag is caused by the players, the tactics they use are in turn caused by CCPs game mechanics. The solution will not be faster servers, it will be changed game mechanics and players becoming less concerned with only engaging if they are guaranteed to win (only the former will ever happen). I personally avoid almost all forms of PvP in this game. Fleet battles are laggy, 0.0 is at best small gangs ganking anything in sight. Corp wars might be ok, but I play solo. FW is pretty good though. Fleets, but not too big. FCs, but not too strict. Lag, but not too much. People are afraid to undock without an FC, but with an FC they are up for combat. Good stuff. - DesuSigs
Napro Caldari Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:35:00 - [23] Originally by: Andrest Disch Lag has always been apart of fleet battles,which isn't surprising when 200+ people show up to shoot each other with space ships. Instances aren't the right answer, and could/would end up removing alot of the fluidness that makes Eve PvP fun. I wouldnt call the current system fluid either. Sure on paper your squad of logistics ships can enter the fray in the nick of time and save the day. But in practice... these ships would get stuck in the logjam because 200 newbies in frigates just had to come along and see what the fuss is about. You guys are grasping to ideas that only exist in theory and could never really happen with the current lag anyway. All I'm saying is that if you have to choose between a blackscreen and a message box that says "You are not allowed in this area"... why choose the blackscreen? Or do you really not mind fleet battles like this for the next 5-10 years?
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:37:00 - [24] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 26/07/2008 12:37:19 Originally by: Napro All I'm saying is that if you have to choose between a blackscreen and a message box that says "You are not allowed in this area"... why choose the blackscreen? Or do you really not mind fleet battles like this for the next 5-10 years? Rather a troubled implementation of a good game than a great implementation of a bad one? - DesuSigs
Jorafai	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:40:00 - [25] Napro - I never liked you in the Caldari Militia tbh :P (Waxau here). Simply put, you're joining a laggy fight. Why? If you dont like lag/node crashes, why put yourself out there? In 0.0, its done to defend space. A crashed node will still mean the defending fleet have done their job, and the attacking fleet similarly, as the relogs will give a steady stream of kills and so on. But in FW? Why are you blobbing? Why are you having fleet fights? This is something in FW that i never understood. You have no purpose to fight. Theres no REASON to fight, other than kills. And blobbing isnt fun, nor exciting, nor enjoyable for the most part. simply put, theres no need to instance (plus the whole sharding eve = death of eve's unique selling point). You're the one whining about it, yet willingly doing the dirty that makes it happen. Dont go to the fleet fights, dont get DC'd, dont whine about the lag. Simple.
Gone'Postal Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:49:00 - [26] Edited by: Gone''Postal on 26/07/2008 12:50:27 Originally by: Jorafai simply put, theres no need to instance (plus the whole sharding eve = death of eve's unique selling point). You're the one whining about it, yet willingly doing the dirty that makes it happen. Dont go to the fleet fights, dont get DC'd, dont whine about the lag. Simple. This tbh, Eve while not as fluid as everyone would like it to be or as the dev's think it is (going off there crazy ass updates) is unique in a way "on paper" a 100v100 fight can happen and then 100 more can just walk in mop up, however that just don't happen. The other way is to turn Eve into "risk in space" alliance 1 declars they want to attack system A and gives ships details, defender then has to defend with either the same or smaller. a type of Risk//Batchball mixup. have 3rd partys submit intervention forces direct to a DEV so it's still a shcok when they turn up. winner takes system. But thats NEVER going to happen. -V8I-
Napro Caldari Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Jorafai In 0.0, its done to defend space. A crashed node will still mean the defending fleet have done their job, and the attacking fleet similarly, as the relogs will give a steady stream of kills and so on. Ah, so.. node crashing is a feature now. Lmao.
Jorafai	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:54:00 - [28] Originally by: Gone'Postal Originally by: Jorafai simply put, theres no need to instance (plus the whole sharding eve = death of eve's unique selling point). You're the one whining about it, yet willingly doing the dirty that makes it happen. Dont go to the fleet fights, dont get DC'd, dont whine about the lag. Simple. Eve while not as fluid as everyone would like it to be or as the dev's think it is (going off there crazy ass updates) is unique in a way "on paper" a 100v100 fight can happen and then 100 more can just walk in mop up, however that just don't happen. The other way is to turn Eve into "risk in space" alliance 1 declars they want to attack system A and gives ships details, defender then has to defend with either the same or smaller. a type or Risk//Batchball mixup. have 3rd partys submit intervention forces direct to a DEV so it's still a shcok when they turn up. winner takes system. But thats NEVER going to happen. Sorry, but wtf you on about? 100 vs 100 CAN happen, and it CAN happen without lag. It just realistically isnt that common, due to the resources CCP would need to assign to the system/node. Ive been in 150 vs 150 without lag on one occasion. But with Eves subscription base rising, and CCP having to upgrade in other areas to accomodate them, assigning extra resources to large fights whilst feasible, isnt in their best interests im sure. And i was referring to eve's uniqueness being that of an unsharded server. If instances were made, it would fall towards the realm of WoW, and remove its appeal to the majority of the players.
Jorafai	Posted - 2008.07.26 12:56:00 - [29] Originally by: Napro Originally by: Jorafai In 0.0, its done to defend space. A crashed node will still mean the defending fleet have done their job, and the attacking fleet similarly, as the relogs will give a steady stream of kills and so on. Ah, so.. node crashing is a feature now. Lmao. No - Its part of the game however, yes. If you're about to die horribly, lets say...cloaked at a gate after jump-in, and theres a 50 man gang there...and the node crashes....Surely thats an advantage to you? Not a 'feature'. Just an advantage within the game mechanics. But nice way of dodging round my arguement with that little remark there. Perhaps you could focus on intellectual comebacks, rather than immature ones?
Admiral Eos Gallente The Movement	Posted - 2008.07.26 13:01:00 - [30] This is so dumbhead. Let's just make PVP in EVE all duels.

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