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Rezaa Pandemonium Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.29 00:55:00 - [31] Originally by: Jack Soul Great idea. I would love to see this, instead of the current list of nerfs / changes. Adds something to the game, while bringing balance. Though the thresholds on each hull class would provide some discussion. OH with out a doubt there would be discussion on thresholds. But in my opinion VneÆs would have to be ship specific. Since even with in 1 hull type there are several different intended purposes. So I donÆt think it would be wise to just slap a Vne in a hull class with out consideration to its intended purpose.
Buck Starchaser	Posted - 2008.07.29 01:09:00 - [32] LOL, I was refered to this post after having a flash of insight that was identical to this. I think it's quite perfect really. As for the RL version of this being induced by atmospheric drag... In an airplane the forces are spread allong the ship and structure. In space the forces are focused by the thrusters that are doing the same accelleration and manuvering. Exceding the manufacturers design limits could and should cause dammage to the ship. Perhaps by draining your shield, armor plates flaking off, and hull bits breaking loose. As for bumping ships over their maximum speed... How long have people been begging for a ramming feature? I don't really want ram dammage though... how could concord defend people that are struck on accident on a constant basis? I would rather nerf the ludicrus bump... also to get a super bump off you have to have mass and speed... these would be nerfed with either this or the SISI proposal. With the SISI nerf snipers and long range jammers will be the ultimate winners. Anyone with a Large T2 bubble will completely own gates. Blaster boats will be shelfed. A ship with a very short duration of highend speed to get them to that long range tackle or out of a gate bubble is the spice of the game. It shouldn't be the meat of the game or removed from it entirely.
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.29 01:29:00 - [33] Originally by: Rezaa Edited by: Rezaa on 28/07/2008 23:24:30 Originally by: Tomic One thing that no-one has spotted... What happens when you goto warp? These speeds are created by a micro-WARP-drive, which already have a "rated" speed (the boost amount). Ok you might be going several km/s, but as soon as you click warp you speed up to several hundred million km/s. That is a lot of damage to explain away. I dont think any one is realy worried about warp speeds. Only normal space speeds But to address your post you would INSTA POP. Assuming Vne is applied to FTL travle. Which OBVIOUSLY it wouldent be. You seem to miss my point, so I shall rephrase it. Seeing as how a micro-WARP-drive presumably uses the same technology as the standard warp drive, why would it be any different to your ship warping? It really isn't obvious why your vne thing wouldn't be applied to ftl travel, whatever made up stresses would be present here too.
Rezaa Pandemonium Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.29 01:46:00 - [34] Edited by: Rezaa on 29/07/2008 01:55:05 No I understood, but you are referring to 2 different game mechanics. Sub light speeds and Faster than light speeds. For arguments sake, presume a MICRO warp drive doesnÆt fully encapsulate the ship in a warp bubble. As such the ship is subject to normal stresses that a ship using a AB will be subject to. But as IÆm sure every one knows nothing with mass can travel faster than light. And yet it happens time and time in game. So one would presume that FTL travel in EVE has some aspect to it that allows the ship to so with out destroying it self. IE not being subjected to rules/stresses normally associated with sub light travel. So itÆs easy to assume FTL and sub light travel are not subject to the same rules. So it follows that a sub light Vne wouldent affect a FTL jump
Willow Whisp Sadist Faction	Posted - 2008.07.29 02:41:00 - [35] Edited by: Willow Whisp on 29/07/2008 02:41:59 Originally by: Tomic You seem to miss my point, so I shall rephrase it. Seeing as how a micro-WARP-drive presumably uses the same technology as the standard warp drive, why would it be any different to your ship warping? It really isn't obvious why your vne thing wouldn't be applied to ftl travel, whatever made up stresses would be present here too. Since a micro warp drive would be using the same technology, but applying a small effect, rather than a full-on warp, then the ship does have greater stress put upon it if it exceeds certain thrust parameters. Since the ship is not fully enclosed in a warp field, but rather the engines are generating a controlled micro warp field that still allows for sub-light functionality of modules and targeting systems (hece micro warp drive, and not warp drive), then the negative effects of high speed are only applied if the ship is actively engaged in micro-warp drive That both gets rid of the "I got bumped out of the shield and exploded" and explains why when MWDing past a certain threshhold, you begin to take structure damage. That wasn't so hard was it? -- this is my sig.
Sepheir Sepheron Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.29 03:30:00 - [36] Edited by: Sepheir Sepheron on 29/07/2008 03:33:10 Originally by: Rezaa Edited by: Rezaa on 28/07/2008 20:48:18 I have a simple and elegant solution that would address the proposed speed problem. One in which I believe the player base with accept with out too much fuss and it still will address the speed issue definitively. IÆm not sure how knowledgeable you are with aeronautical terminology so I will keep things simple. I propose there be a new facet introduced to all ships. (Not just hull based) And that new facet should be called Vne (Velocity Never Exceed). This is an actual aircraft rating in the real world. In layman terms itÆs a speed at which you start causing abnormal stress/damage to an aircraftÆs hull. IE if you exceed the Vne too much for too long the wings will rip off or cause other catastrophic damage. By instituting this new dynamic you will be able to effectively kill the ôludicrousö speed as noted in the blog. With out the huge sweeping changes that are on SISI now. As an idea how this would work: say a ship has a Vne rating of 5k/ms. Now if that same ship exceeds that rating it would start incurring hull damage. Now the amount of damage incurred VRS the amount of speed over the rated Vne is of course variable. And just as in real ships/aircraft some hulls are built more heavily then others. Since this new dynamic is based in real life most every one will understand it and accept it. And bluntly it just makes sense that this is how things should work. Just as in real life: sure you can strap a MX missile to your back, nothing is stopping you. But youÆre not going to live long if you fire that bad boy off. But an important effect of instituting a change like this is you can leave all the modules and implants at their current nominal values. So people with snakes in their heads or people that have a lot of time in trained skills donÆt wined up having their efforts completely destroyed. Of course no one is ever happy at the prospect of having their efforts completely destroyed by the institution of a new policy. I think most every one would agree that this would not kill small gang warfare, but rather it would add a new dynamic to the necessary piloting skills to be successful. Since speed tanked ships donÆt fit reps having even a small amount of hull/armor damage is a huge factor in the decision making process of any one piloting a nano/speed tanked ship. Conversely people might actually fit remote hull repairers to their ships for after combat repairs. And since these modules are very power thirsty, I would not think they would/could be use them wile still in combat. And I would bet most people would acknowledge that remote hull reps are almost completely absent from roaming speed gangs. MOST importantly in the end analyses making a change like this adds new decision VRS penalty choice that every pilot would have to make. Yes people would be able to go at ôludicrousö speeds, but NOT FOR LONG and not with out a PENALTY. And as an added benefit since you are not making a huge change to the game dynamic. So I would expect the resulting ôUNEXPECTED result of X nerfö would be greatly diminished. NOT TO MENTION YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A HUGE PORTION OF YOUÆRE PLAYER BASE UP IN ARMS. Happy customers are repeat customers! No VNE in space. (Nothing to cause heat damage)
Willow Whisp Sadist Faction	Posted - 2008.07.29 03:46:00 - [37] Originally by: Sepheir Sepheron No VNE in space. (Nothing to cause heat damage) This has already been addressed. The damage comes from internal vibration and bulkhead stress, not from external factors such as drag. Simply put the ammount of thrust an engine can consistently push out will begin damaging the ship past a certain point. It has nothing to do with the whole "We are in space so no environmental friction" -- this is my sig.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.07.29 03:52:00 - [38] Originally by: Rezaa Edited by: Rezaa on 28/07/2008 20:48:18 I have a simple and elegant solution that would address the proposed speed problem. One in which I believe the player base with accept with out too much fuss and it still will address the speed issue definitively. IÆm not sure how knowledgeable you are with aeronautical terminology so I will keep things simple. I propose there be a new facet introduced to all ships. (Not just hull based) And that new facet should be called Vne (Velocity Never Exceed). This is an actual aircraft rating in the real world. In layman terms itÆs a speed at which you start causing abnormal stress/damage to an aircraftÆs hull. IE if you exceed the Vne too much for too long the wings will rip off or cause other catastrophic damage. By instituting this new dynamic you will be able to effectively kill the ôludicrousö speed as noted in the blog. With out the huge sweeping changes that are on SISI now. As an idea how this would work: say a ship has a Vne rating of 5k/ms. Now if that same ship exceeds that rating it would start incurring hull damage. Now the amount of damage incurred VRS the amount of speed over the rated Vne is of course variable. And just as in real ships/aircraft some hulls are built more heavily then others. Since this new dynamic is based in real life most every one will understand it and accept it. And bluntly it just makes sense that this is how things should work. Just as in real life: sure you can strap a MX missile to your back, nothing is stopping you. But youÆre not going to live long if you fire that bad boy off. But an important effect of instituting a change like this is you can leave all the modules and implants at their current nominal values. So people with snakes in their heads or people that have a lot of time in trained skills donÆt wined up having their efforts completely destroyed. Of course no one is ever happy at the prospect of having their efforts completely destroyed by the institution of a new policy. I think most every one would agree that this would not kill small gang warfare, but rather it would add a new dynamic to the necessary piloting skills to be successful. Since speed tanked ships donÆt fit reps having even a small amount of hull/armor damage is a huge factor in the decision making process of any one piloting a nano/speed tanked ship. Conversely people might actually fit remote hull repairers to their ships for after combat repairs. And since these modules are very power thirsty, I would not think they would/could be use them wile still in combat. And I would bet most people would acknowledge that remote hull reps are almost completely absent from roaming speed gangs. MOST importantly in the end analyses making a change like this adds new decision VRS penalty choice that every pilot would have to make. Yes people would be able to go at ôludicrousö speeds, but NOT FOR LONG and not with out a PENALTY. And as an added benefit since you are not making a huge change to the game dynamic. So I would expect the resulting ôUNEXPECTED result of X nerfö would be greatly diminished. NOT TO MENTION YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A HUGE PORTION OF YOUÆRE PLAYER BASE UP IN ARMS. Happy customers are repeat customers! FAIL. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Luccul	Posted - 2008.07.29 04:00:00 - [39] I have been thinking along similar lines. But since in space there is no drag (except in Eve's odd world), so when you fire (sublight) engines you accelerate - MWD and AB increase that acceleration rate. When you stop firing the engines, you continue at your current speed. If you go in a straight line, you can go faster and faster, but: - you can't manoeuver easily; at higher speeds it takes longer to do anything, - you can exceed the pilot's ability to react and respond things not in a straight line in front or behind him - orbiting another ship becomes impossible; ships don't exert enough gravity on another ship for gravity orbit, so you'd have to do it with engine power, which would force you slow down, or take hull damage trying keep speed up in an arc path. The bigger the ship: - the longer it takes to get to speed, - the long it takes to slow down, - the bigger the safe orbit radius is at any given speed. Etc, etc. The above is all really a mental exercise because it would take such a change in the whole game engine and user interface, you might as well start a new game. But the VNE idea can fit in here. Let the VNE be a the max safe speed that allows the pilot to follow an arc path (orbit, collision avoidance, keep distance from, etc.) You can set that speed as you do now in the UI as max speed. AB and MWD help you get there faster, but don't exceed that max speed. You can go faster by deliberately setting a higher speed (UI change?), but in a straight line only. You will risk hull damage if you try to change direction while above VNE speed. The risk goes up according the extent of course change and speed above VNE. Your ship has auto collision avoidance which will force a course change at the last moment in if you are on a collision course, but you can sustain hull damage if you are going above VNE when that happens. It would be possible to push the VNE envelop in orbit/combat but system and/or hull damage could occur much like it does in an overheated module now. You can slow down in a straight line without risks, but in ratio to your ship's mass (so going too fast means you may not be able to stop in time which could cause damage if you get into an collision avoidance issue. The VNE idea is a good one, but if you allow it to be exceeded in straight line flight, you can account for some of the objections expressed so far. Food for thought: Ship A chases ship B, both above their VNE. B is overtaking A (lighter ship). They can fire on each other - missiles can still accelerate from B to catch A. Projectiles from B can still be fired at a higher velocity to hit A. Hmm. Actually that might get kinda hard on the Eve physics engine. There are some hurdles to overcome, but I like the VNE concept.
Rezaa Pandemonium Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.29 04:30:00 - [40] Edited by: Rezaa on 29/07/2008 04:31:10 Originally by: Luccul There are some hurdles to overcome, but I like the VNE concept. Thank you. That was the whole point of this thread. To address the speed issue without nerfing every thing back to the stone age. I just wanted to put out a viable idea to the problem that was flexible enough to address the speed issue without ****ing off 1/2 of the EVE players. And letÆs be bluntly honest here there are details to work out to make this a reality. However from a conceptual point of view I really think this is a much better option than the systematic nerfing of Modules/Rigs/Base speeds/Inertia/Mass/Implants and a whole host of items I havenÆt mentioned. I mean honestly if you make that many changes how can you even begin to hope to have an idea of all of the ôunexpected consequencesö?? With a Vne in some form or another (call it what ever you will) you still may have unexpected consequences, but that will relate to 1 ship at a time instead of the EVE universe as a whole. My only REAL hope is that a DEV or another CCP official makes a post saying ôYes we have read this.ö ThatÆs it, even if they donÆt say any thing about whether this is a doable idea or not. All I want is for the devÆs to know about this idea. Beyond that itÆs out of my/our hands with what they decide to do.

Aargh	Posted - 2008.07.29 10:05:00 - [41] If people are getting hung up on the concept of "VNE" because it offends their physics sensibilities, then simply change it to "TECTINM" (The Engines Cannae Take It No Muir). FTL and navigational drives are different entities in EVE, and realism notwithstanding, we're talking about a game mechanic. I endorse this product/service/suggestion/organisation/womble* *Delete as appropriate
Rezaa Pandemonium Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:00:00 - [42] Originally by: Aargh I endorse this product/service/suggestion/organisation/womble* Thank you, I hope CCP can get behind this too.
Slade Hoo Amarr xPlaguex	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:09:00 - [43] sounds like "overheat" except for using hull repairers than nanite repair paste.
Rutger Centemus Gallente Joint Empire Squad	Posted - 2008.07.29 17:29:00 - [44] Edited by: Rutger Centemus on 29/07/2008 17:30:11 Originally by: Sepheir Sepheron Edited by: Sepheir Sepheron on 29/07/2008 03:33:10 Originally by: Rezaa Edited by: Rezaa on 28/07/2008 20:48:18 ideas No VNE in space. (Nothing to cause heat damage) With all due respect: Vne (in airplanes) doesn't really have anything to do with 'heat' and the likes. [Exceeding] Vne means, the speeds you're flying at cause stress on the airframe making it harder to hold it's structural integrity. Basically, you rattle your aircraft to pieces. Before reaching Vne an airplane will reach speeds within which the pilot (officially) isn't allowed to make 'large' adjustments to course, due to the fact that (due to drag, G-forces etc.) this, again, could cause (catastrophic) structural failure in the airframe. Think of a sort of accelerated 'metal fatigue'. As for the 'But why would this affect MWD's, and no 'normal' warping!11?'. Can't remember (and cba to check it out atm), 'FTL-travel' warped the, for lack of a better description, '4 dimensions of space-time' by use of some sort of vacuum. Tbh, I don't think this is what an MWD does. If not: fine, but it wouldn't be the only thing 'broken' (from an 'rp' / 'science' perspective). Not my biggest concern imo, gameplay is and should be the biggest concern. On topic: being a 'carebear', I still had to deal with "nano****s" through wardecs and the likes. I think the original proposed changes are 'a tad bit' over the top. Counters to nano's, in modules, (specific) ships as well as (in some cases) tactics are available. Implemetation of 'Vne' or something like it could (possibly) be an option, though would not get my vote. Adjusting things 1 step at a time, as opposed to blindly clubbering around with a (nerf-?)bat as seems to be CCP's idea atm, would get my vote. Now if I only knew where the polling office was... edit: I haz speling*
Kira Novia	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:30:00 - [45] Originally by: Rezaa Edited by: Rezaa on 28/07/2008 20:48:18 I have a simple and elegant solution that would address the proposed speed problem. One in which I believe the player base with accept with out too much fuss and it still will address the speed issue definitively. IÆm not sure how knowledgeable you are with aeronautical terminology so I will keep things simple. I propose there be a new facet introduced to all ships. (Not just hull based) And that new facet should be called Vne (Velocity Never Exceed). This is an actual aircraft rating in the real world. In layman terms itÆs a speed at which you start causing abnormal stress/damage to an aircraftÆs hull. IE if you exceed the Vne too much for too long the wings will rip off or cause other catastrophic damage. By instituting this new dynamic you will be able to effectively kill the ôludicrousö speed as noted in the blog. With out the huge sweeping changes that are on SISI now. As an idea how this would work: say a ship has a Vne rating of 5k/ms. Now if that same ship exceeds that rating it would start incurring hull damage. Now the amount of damage incurred VRS the amount of speed over the rated Vne is of course variable. And just as in real ships/aircraft some hulls are built more heavily then others. Since this new dynamic is based in real life most every one will understand it and accept it. And bluntly it just makes sense that this is how things should work. Just as in real life: sure you can strap a MX missile to your back, nothing is stopping you. But youÆre not going to live long if you fire that bad boy off. But an important effect of instituting a change like this is you can leave all the modules and implants at their current nominal values. So people with snakes in their heads or people that have a lot of time in trained skills donÆt wined up having their efforts completely destroyed. Of course no one is ever happy at the prospect of having their efforts completely destroyed by the institution of a new policy. I think most every one would agree that this would not kill small gang warfare, but rather it would add a new dynamic to the necessary piloting skills to be successful. Since speed tanked ships donÆt fit reps having even a small amount of hull/armor damage is a huge factor in the decision making process of any one piloting a nano/speed tanked ship. Conversely people might actually fit remote hull repairers to their ships for after combat repairs. And since these modules are very power thirsty, I would not think they would/could be use them wile still in combat. And I would bet most people would acknowledge that remote hull reps are almost completely absent from roaming speed gangs. MOST importantly in the end analyses making a change like this adds new decision VRS penalty choice that every pilot would have to make. Yes people would be able to go at ôludicrousö speeds, but NOT FOR LONG and not with out a PENALTY. And as an added benefit since you are not making a huge change to the game dynamic. So I would expect the resulting ôUNEXPECTED result of X nerfö would be greatly diminished. NOT TO MENTION YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A HUGE PORTION OF YOUÆRE PLAYER BASE UP IN ARMS. Happy customers are repeat customers! I suggested something similar, actually identical, albeit not in so much detail, in various threads since this patch was announced for testing. I fully support this idea. /Signed. PS: Long Live Star Trek
Draygo Korvan Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.29 20:10:00 - [46] Technically in the real world, spacegoing objects do not have such limitation. For instance, there is no air in space to rip the wings off after you fly faster than a certain speed. Only rate of acceleration, and deceleration are limiting factors. --
Rezaa Pandemonium Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.29 20:50:00 - [47] Originally by: Draygo Korvan Technically in the real world, spacegoing objects do not have such limitation. For instance, there is no air in space to rip the wings off after you fly faster than a certain speed. Only rate of acceleration, and deceleration are limiting factors. Please read the previous Post/Replies. The proposed Vne isnÆt based on a drag/resistance basis. I used the example of wings ripping off of an aircraft as a analog to explain fundamentals of a Vne.
Rezaa Pandemonium Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.29 20:52:00 - [48] Originally by: Rezaa However a Vne doesn't have to be drag related. It can be a function of heat, stress and any other number of contributing factors. For the above reply
MilowFV Echo Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.07.29 22:12:00 - [49] I think this would be an easyer fix then what they are currently doing. CCP should have an idea what they want for the top speed of certain ship classes and they could basically set them and give you away to exceed them at a cost. Who cares what the name is you can just say strapping on all those speed mod cause extra stress to the ship hull and going full out for very long can damage the ship. It has nothing to do with drag or anything else he just happen to mention Vne as an analogue, not a direct correlation.
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. The Border Patrol	Posted - 2008.07.29 22:28:00 - [50] how about MWD gives linear speed boost, maneuverability decreases dramatically when MWD is on and Afterburner gives more maneuverability?

rgreat Gallente OEG Red Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.29 22:41:00 - [51] Edited by: rgreat on 29/07/2008 22:43:10 Im strongly against it. In big lag fast ships will be surely 'selfdistructed'. Also there are no meaningful friction in deep space. At least on speeds like 10-20km/s. Current SiSi settings are better this idea. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Trent Nichols Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.29 22:46:00 - [52] Do I see a use for hull reppers here? I like it, its simple and rather than taking away, it adds a new dimension to combat. Logistics deployables mean less grind and more pewpew!
Al Turnott	Posted - 2008.07.29 22:53:00 - [53] Love the idea, and there is a simple way of working out a Vne for every type of ship: Vne = 1.25 x the speed of the ship with max skills, T2 MWD running, no rigs, no modules and no implants you can therefore safely add a couple of rigs/mods to increase your speed, but anything else you start running the risk of damage.
P'uck	Posted - 2008.07.29 22:58:00 - [54] Edited by: P''uck on 29/07/2008 23:00:00 And the best part: you would see hull reppers on more than just lolfits and those repair-undocks. Also calling it the "TECTIA" is a good idea, I think. (edit; i like that better than TECTINM) I still don't think it fixes anything, but I DO think it would be a fun annoyance that adds flavour. Also I vote for (optional) red flashing of the UI and Aura going into panic-mode. Would be a good excuse to get some new aura voice files, we all love her, don't we? edit: if damage controls resist that damage, you probably get people to use one less slot for speedstuff, if that means anything.
Al Turnott	Posted - 2008.07.29 23:02:00 - [55] yeah some gentle moaning if you 5-50m/s too fast, the sound of a good spanking if you go faster than that, and a full on scream as you go through 10km/s
Rezaa Pandemonium Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.30 00:09:00 - [56] Edited by: Rezaa on 30/07/2008 00:11:04 Originally by: rgreat Edited by: rgreat on 29/07/2008 22:43:10 Im strongly against it. In big lag fast ships will be surely 'selfdistructed'. Also there are no meaningful friction in deep space. At least on speeds like 10-20km/s. Current SiSi settings are better this idea. I disagree, as long as the pilot doesnÆt set his/her throttle above the Vne lag is a non issue. Now of course setting the throttle above Vne you run the risk of popping youÆre self. But every pilot would know beforehand that was a risky move to start with. HENCE one of my original statements- This would bring a new ôDecision VRS Riskö aspect to piloting a ship. P.S. I dont expect you will be able to exceed Vne with out a MWD any ways. So Caps and AB fitted ships proly would not have to worry about it. But that would depend on the final Vne number and fitting
Rezaa Pandemonium Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.30 00:21:00 - [57] Edited by: Rezaa on 30/07/2008 00:22:04 Double post
Gar Ddhen Gallente North Yorkshire Trading	Posted - 2008.07.30 01:02:00 - [58] Undecided about the idea, but thought I would mention a few things to the people pointing at reality for a reason this would not work. Even with my relatively basic understanding of Physics and Engineering (I am a marine biologist, not an astro physicist or rocket scientist) I can point to several technologies in Eve that simply wouldnt work, or would not work in the same way they do in the Eve Universe. FTL travel for example is impossible, close to light travel may be possible, but not in our life times, nor likely in the lifetimes of our grandchildren. Missiles, projectile weapons and railguns wouldnt have a range, their projectiles would continue infinately, only targeting and weapon control systems would be an issue, and modern technology is good enough to come up with all sorts of smart weapons... hardly difficult to imagine advanced societies adding smart componants even to supposedly dumb munitions such as railgun projectiles. At the end of the day, it doesnt matter what sort of psuedo science babble is made up to explain something in Eve, its a game, not real life. Its like Startrek, or Star Wars, so long as it sounds good, it doesnt really matter if it works or not. As to the idea, its an interesting one, but to be honest I am unsure it would be feasible, certainly not in the short term as it would require some fairly extensive coding not to mention testing. The problem is not in making the main idea work i think, but how to enable the system to descriminate between the actual application of the mechanic, and the abuses that will undoubtedly arise. The easiest way I can think of, is by simply applying it ONLY when an MWD is active. While it would work, its sort of clumsy.
Rezaa Pandemonium Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.30 01:16:00 - [59] Or it could be coded to respond to commanded throttle inputs VRS bumped speed. To avoid the issue of some one bumping past Vne These are of course some of the ôdetailsö I mentioned in my previous posts. But point being I think is a much better solution than nerfing + of the game. And simultaneously utterly destroying the effort people put in to the skills/implants they have.
TJ17 Gallente Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.30 01:28:00 - [60] Originally by: Rezaa Edited by: Rezaa on 28/07/2008 20:48:18 I have a simple and elegant solution that would address the proposed speed problem. One in which I believe the player base with accept with out too much fuss and it still will address the speed issue definitively. IÆm not sure how knowledgeable you are with aeronautical terminology so I will keep things simple. I propose there be a new facet introduced to all ships. (Not just hull based) And that new facet should be called Vne (Velocity Never Exceed). This is an actual aircraft rating in the real world. In layman terms itÆs a speed at which you start causing abnormal stress/damage to an aircraftÆs hull. IE if you exceed the Vne too much for too long the wings will rip off or cause other catastrophic damage. By instituting this new dynamic you will be able to effectively kill the ôludicrousö speed as noted in the blog. With out the huge sweeping changes that are on SISI now. As an idea how this would work: say a ship has a Vne rating of 5k/ms. Now if that same ship exceeds that rating it would start incurring hull damage. Now the amount of damage incurred VRS the amount of speed over the rated Vne is of course variable. And just as in real ships/aircraft some hulls are built more heavily then others. Since this new dynamic is based in real life most every one will understand it and accept it. And bluntly it just makes sense that this is how things should work. Just as in real life: sure you can strap a MX missile to your back, nothing is stopping you. But youÆre not going to live long if you fire that bad boy off. But an important effect of instituting a change like this is you can leave all the modules and implants at their current nominal values. So people with snakes in their heads or people that have a lot of time in trained skills donÆt wined up having their efforts completely destroyed. Of course no one is ever happy at the prospect of having their efforts completely destroyed by the institution of a new policy. I think most every one would agree that this would not kill small gang warfare, but rather it would add a new dynamic to the necessary piloting skills to be successful. Since speed tanked ships donÆt fit reps having even a small amount of hull/armor damage is a huge factor in the decision making process of any one piloting a nano/speed tanked ship. Conversely people might actually fit remote hull repairers to their ships for after combat repairs. And since these modules are very power thirsty, I would not think they would/could be use them wile still in combat. And I would bet most people would acknowledge that remote hull reps are almost completely absent from roaming speed gangs. MOST importantly in the end analyses making a change like this adds new decision VRS penalty choice that every pilot would have to make. Yes people would be able to go at ôludicrousö speeds, but NOT FOR LONG and not with out a PENALTY. And as an added benefit since you are not making a huge change to the game dynamic. So I would expect the resulting ôUNEXPECTED result of X nerfö would be greatly diminished. NOT TO MENTION YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A HUGE PORTION OF YOUÆRE PLAYER BASE UP IN ARMS. Happy customers are repeat customers! i fully support this awsome idea all hacs/cruisers should have a 5km/sec cap besides the vaga which should have a 6km/sec cap since its made for speed. and battleships and commander ships like a 3-4km/sec cap so you can still make station huggers cry.



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