Originally by: Gavin Darklighter

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Interesting idea, but rather than taking hull damage for exceeding max velocity I would just code it to turn off all active modules at that speed. There are ways in game that you can get uber-bumped to just plain stupid speeds, and while losing a ship in such a way might be funny as hell, it could get old fast.

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Originally by: Willow Whisp

This is a really interesting, and rather elegant solution.

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Thank you

Originally by: Kagura Nikon

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I msut say it won 't work. I worked ian another space ship mmo in past. And we tried to implement that. The problem is.. you are going at your max speed.. then a very fast ship comes from behind you and bump you. Now you are goign faster and taking a LOT of damage. Or worse.. someone changes the password of the POS, you are ejected at 20 km/s and dies because of this damage.

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Originally by: Tomic

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One thing that no-one has spotted... What happens when you goto warp? These speeds are created by a micro-WARP-drive, which already have a "rated" speed (the boost amount). Ok you might be going several km/s, but as soon as you click warp you speed up to several hundred million km/s. That is a lot of damage to explain away.

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Originally by: Rezaa

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[
As an idea how this would work: say a ship has a Vne rating of 5k/ms. Now if that same ship exceeds that rating it would start incurring hull damage. Now the amount of damage incurred VRS the amount of speed over the rated Vne is of course variable. And just as in real ships/aircraft some hulls are built more heavily then others.

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/07/2008 23:57:18

Originally by: Rezaa

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[
As an idea how this would work: say a ship has a Vne rating of 5k/ms. Now if that same ship exceeds that rating it would start incurring hull damage. Now the amount of damage incurred VRS the amount of speed over the rated Vne is of course variable. And just as in real ships/aircraft some hulls are built more heavily then others.

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VNE? In Space? 5km/s?

Real life comparisons are bad, particularly when comparing spaceships and aircraft... next you'll say they get heated from friction too

We just need to see how the changes pan out in actual gameplay.

Also, the throttle/etc mechanics wouldn't work in EvE. This isn't a flight sim.

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Originally by: Willow Whisp

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For those going over why VNE in space doesn't really work, a simple explanation is due to internal pressures of maintaining that level of thrust (i.e., vibration, structural stress, etc), and not due to friction and outside the spacecraft effects.

That would be why you would start suffering hull and module damage, but no armor / shield damage.

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Originally by: Nova Fox

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Well making a VNE for every ship is a monkey wrench the gears. theres about 165 pilotable ships in eve, you make VNE for each one youll have to go over extensive testing for each class, then balance it against weapon systems at various skill levels this sorta implimention is far more difficult than a simple overall class balancing and modification by family on the current nerf. Also the only other thing limited on ships are slots and calibration everything else is modifiyable stats wise, to make a point I want this game to be more like mech warrior II not mech warrior 4.

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Originally by: Nova Fox

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Well making a VNE for every ship is a monkey wrench the gears. theres about 165 pilotable ships in eve, you make VNE for each one youll have to go over extensive testing for each class, then balance it against weapon systems at various skill levels this sorta implimention is far more difficult than a simple overall class balancing and modification by family on the current nerf. Also the only other thing limited on ships are slots and calibration everything else is modifiyable stats wise, to make a point I want this game to be more like mech warrior II not mech warrior 4.

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Originally by: Lakia Kai

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How about for something slightly different.

Right now (from mine observations) orbiting speed is linked with your top speed which is the main problem with top fitted nanos.

How about: Calculate max orbiting speed based directly on ship's agility/inertia.

The orbiting speed would be only linked with the ships agility and not the max speed, hence no need for nerfing snakes and mwd.

Sure your poly fitted ceptor can go 18km/s in a stright line, but only 5k while maitaining for example 18km orbit (instead of 11k).

That would cut max orbiting speeds making you vulnerable to weapons like precision missiles and fast tracking guns.

All ships could be balanced to have the desired ranges of agility. Making ceptors be able to evade most weapons (as they should), cruisers would still be able to pack at least some speed tank but much less than now. Also huggins/rapiers would be still usefull anti nano ships.

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Originally by: Zake Daniels

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True.. But you can extend it simply to all maneuvers.

So going top speed will require very long turning radious, efectively getting you out of scram and possibly even targeting range.

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Originally by: Jack Soul

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Great idea.

I would love to see this, instead of the current list of nerfs / changes.

Adds something to the game, while bringing balance. Though the thresholds on each hull class would provide some discussion.

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Originally by: Rezaa

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Edited by: Rezaa on 28/07/2008 23:24:30

Originally by: Tomic

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One thing that no-one has spotted... What happens when you goto warp? These speeds are created by a micro-WARP-drive, which already have a "rated" speed (the boost amount). Ok you might be going several km/s, but as soon as you click warp you speed up to several hundred million km/s. That is a lot of damage to explain away.

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I dont think any one is realy worried about warp speeds. Only normal space speeds

But to address your post you would INSTA POP. Assuming Vne is applied to FTL travle. Which OBVIOUSLY it wouldent be.

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Originally by: Tomic

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You seem to miss my point, so I shall rephrase it. Seeing as how a micro-WARP-drive presumably uses the same technology as the standard warp drive, why would it be any different to your ship warping? It really isn't obvious why your vne thing wouldn't be applied to ftl travel, whatever made up stresses would be present here too.

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Originally by: Rezaa

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Edited by: Rezaa on 28/07/2008 20:48:18
I have a simple and elegant solution that would address the proposed speed problem. One in which I believe the player base with accept with out too much fuss and it still will address the speed issue definitively.

IÆm not sure how knowledgeable you are with aeronautical terminology so I will keep things simple.

I propose there be a new facet introduced to all ships. (Not just hull based) And that new facet should be called Vne (Velocity Never Exceed). This is an actual aircraft rating in the real world. In layman terms itÆs a speed at which you start causing abnormal stress/damage to an aircraftÆs hull. IE if you exceed the Vne too much for too long the wings will rip off or cause other catastrophic damage. By instituting this new dynamic you will be able to effectively kill the ôludicrousö speed as noted in the blog. With out the huge sweeping changes that are on SISI now.

As an idea how this would work: say a ship has a Vne rating of 5k/ms. Now if that same ship exceeds that rating it would start incurring hull damage. Now the amount of damage incurred VRS the amount of speed over the rated Vne is of course variable. And just as in real ships/aircraft some hulls are built more heavily then others.

Since this new dynamic is based in real life most every one will understand it and accept it. And bluntly it just makes sense that this is how things should work. Just as in real life: sure you can strap a MX missile to your back, nothing is stopping you. But youÆre not going to live long if you fire that bad boy off.

But an important effect of instituting a change like this is you can leave all the modules and implants at their current nominal values. So people with snakes in their heads or people that have a lot of time in trained skills donÆt wined up having their efforts completely destroyed. Of course no one is ever happy at the prospect of having their efforts completely destroyed by the institution of a new policy.


I think most every one would agree that this would not kill small gang warfare, but rather it would add a new dynamic to the necessary piloting skills to be successful. Since speed tanked ships donÆt fit reps having even a small amount of hull/armor damage is a huge factor in the decision making process of any one piloting a nano/speed tanked ship. Conversely people might actually fit remote hull repairers to their ships for after combat repairs. And since these modules are very power thirsty, I would not think they would/could be use them wile still in combat. And I would bet most people would acknowledge that remote hull reps are almost completely absent from roaming speed gangs.


MOST importantly in the end analyses making a change like this adds new decision VRS penalty choice that every pilot would have to make. Yes people would be able to go at ôludicrousö speeds, but NOT FOR LONG and not with out a PENALTY. And as an added benefit since you are not making a huge change to the game dynamic. So I would expect the resulting ôUNEXPECTED result of X nerfö would be greatly diminished.


NOT TO MENTION YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A HUGE PORTION OF YOUÆRE PLAYER BASE UP IN ARMS. Happy customers are repeat customers!

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Originally by: Sepheir Sepheron

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No VNE in space. (Nothing to cause heat damage)

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Originally by: Rezaa

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Edited by: Rezaa on 28/07/2008 20:48:18
I have a simple and elegant solution that would address the proposed speed problem. One in which I believe the player base with accept with out too much fuss and it still will address the speed issue definitively.

IÆm not sure how knowledgeable you are with aeronautical terminology so I will keep things simple.

I propose there be a new facet introduced to all ships. (Not just hull based) And that new facet should be called Vne (Velocity Never Exceed). This is an actual aircraft rating in the real world. In layman terms itÆs a speed at which you start causing abnormal stress/damage to an aircraftÆs hull. IE if you exceed the Vne too much for too long the wings will rip off or cause other catastrophic damage. By instituting this new dynamic you will be able to effectively kill the ôludicrousö speed as noted in the blog. With out the huge sweeping changes that are on SISI now.

As an idea how this would work: say a ship has a Vne rating of 5k/ms. Now if that same ship exceeds that rating it would start incurring hull damage. Now the amount of damage incurred VRS the amount of speed over the rated Vne is of course variable. And just as in real ships/aircraft some hulls are built more heavily then others.

Since this new dynamic is based in real life most every one will understand it and accept it. And bluntly it just makes sense that this is how things should work. Just as in real life: sure you can strap a MX missile to your back, nothing is stopping you. But youÆre not going to live long if you fire that bad boy off.

But an important effect of instituting a change like this is you can leave all the modules and implants at their current nominal values. So people with snakes in their heads or people that have a lot of time in trained skills donÆt wined up having their efforts completely destroyed. Of course no one is ever happy at the prospect of having their efforts completely destroyed by the institution of a new policy.


I think most every one would agree that this would not kill small gang warfare, but rather it would add a new dynamic to the necessary piloting skills to be successful. Since speed tanked ships donÆt fit reps having even a small amount of hull/armor damage is a huge factor in the decision making process of any one piloting a nano/speed tanked ship. Conversely people might actually fit remote hull repairers to their ships for after combat repairs. And since these modules are very power thirsty, I would not think they would/could be use them wile still in combat. And I would bet most people would acknowledge that remote hull reps are almost completely absent from roaming speed gangs.


MOST importantly in the end analyses making a change like this adds new decision VRS penalty choice that every pilot would have to make. Yes people would be able to go at ôludicrousö speeds, but NOT FOR LONG and not with out a PENALTY. And as an added benefit since you are not making a huge change to the game dynamic. So I would expect the resulting ôUNEXPECTED result of X nerfö would be greatly diminished.


NOT TO MENTION YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A HUGE PORTION OF YOUÆRE PLAYER BASE UP IN ARMS. Happy customers are repeat customers!

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Originally by: Luccul

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There are some hurdles to overcome, but I like the VNE concept.

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Originally by: Aargh

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I endorse this product/service/suggestion/organisation/womble*

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Originally by: Sepheir Sepheron

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Edited by: Sepheir Sepheron on 29/07/2008 03:33:10

Originally by: Rezaa

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Edited by: Rezaa on 28/07/2008 20:48:18
ideas

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No VNE in space. (Nothing to cause heat damage)

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Originally by: Rezaa

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Edited by: Rezaa on 28/07/2008 20:48:18
I have a simple and elegant solution that would address the proposed speed problem. One in which I believe the player base with accept with out too much fuss and it still will address the speed issue definitively.

IÆm not sure how knowledgeable you are with aeronautical terminology so I will keep things simple.

I propose there be a new facet introduced to all ships. (Not just hull based) And that new facet should be called Vne (Velocity Never Exceed). This is an actual aircraft rating in the real world. In layman terms itÆs a speed at which you start causing abnormal stress/damage to an aircraftÆs hull. IE if you exceed the Vne too much for too long the wings will rip off or cause other catastrophic damage. By instituting this new dynamic you will be able to effectively kill the ôludicrousö speed as noted in the blog. With out the huge sweeping changes that are on SISI now.

As an idea how this would work: say a ship has a Vne rating of 5k/ms. Now if that same ship exceeds that rating it would start incurring hull damage. Now the amount of damage incurred VRS the amount of speed over the rated Vne is of course variable. And just as in real ships/aircraft some hulls are built more heavily then others.

Since this new dynamic is based in real life most every one will understand it and accept it. And bluntly it just makes sense that this is how things should work. Just as in real life: sure you can strap a MX missile to your back, nothing is stopping you. But youÆre not going to live long if you fire that bad boy off.

But an important effect of instituting a change like this is you can leave all the modules and implants at their current nominal values. So people with snakes in their heads or people that have a lot of time in trained skills donÆt wined up having their efforts completely destroyed. Of course no one is ever happy at the prospect of having their efforts completely destroyed by the institution of a new policy.


I think most every one would agree that this would not kill small gang warfare, but rather it would add a new dynamic to the necessary piloting skills to be successful. Since speed tanked ships donÆt fit reps having even a small amount of hull/armor damage is a huge factor in the decision making process of any one piloting a nano/speed tanked ship. Conversely people might actually fit remote hull repairers to their ships for after combat repairs. And since these modules are very power thirsty, I would not think they would/could be use them wile still in combat. And I would bet most people would acknowledge that remote hull reps are almost completely absent from roaming speed gangs.


MOST importantly in the end analyses making a change like this adds new decision VRS penalty choice that every pilot would have to make. Yes people would be able to go at ôludicrousö speeds, but NOT FOR LONG and not with out a PENALTY. And as an added benefit since you are not making a huge change to the game dynamic. So I would expect the resulting ôUNEXPECTED result of X nerfö would be greatly diminished.


NOT TO MENTION YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A HUGE PORTION OF YOUÆRE PLAYER BASE UP IN ARMS. Happy customers are repeat customers!

---

Originally by: Draygo Korvan

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Technically in the real world, spacegoing objects do not have such limitation. For instance, there is no air in space to rip the wings off after you fly faster than a certain speed. Only rate of acceleration, and deceleration are limiting factors.

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Originally by: Rezaa

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However a Vne doesn't have to be drag related. It can be a function of heat, stress and any other number of contributing factors.

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Originally by: rgreat

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Edited by: rgreat on 29/07/2008 22:43:10
Im strongly against it.

In big lag fast ships will be surely 'selfdistructed'.

Also there are no meaningful friction in deep space. At least on speeds like 10-20km/s.

Current SiSi settings are better this idea.

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Originally by: Rezaa

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Edited by: Rezaa on 28/07/2008 20:48:18
I have a simple and elegant solution that would address the proposed speed problem. One in which I believe the player base with accept with out too much fuss and it still will address the speed issue definitively.

IÆm not sure how knowledgeable you are with aeronautical terminology so I will keep things simple.

I propose there be a new facet introduced to all ships. (Not just hull based) And that new facet should be called Vne (Velocity Never Exceed). This is an actual aircraft rating in the real world. In layman terms itÆs a speed at which you start causing abnormal stress/damage to an aircraftÆs hull. IE if you exceed the Vne too much for too long the wings will rip off or cause other catastrophic damage. By instituting this new dynamic you will be able to effectively kill the ôludicrousö speed as noted in the blog. With out the huge sweeping changes that are on SISI now.

As an idea how this would work: say a ship has a Vne rating of 5k/ms. Now if that same ship exceeds that rating it would start incurring hull damage. Now the amount of damage incurred VRS the amount of speed over the rated Vne is of course variable. And just as in real ships/aircraft some hulls are built more heavily then others.

Since this new dynamic is based in real life most every one will understand it and accept it. And bluntly it just makes sense that this is how things should work. Just as in real life: sure you can strap a MX missile to your back, nothing is stopping you. But youÆre not going to live long if you fire that bad boy off.

But an important effect of instituting a change like this is you can leave all the modules and implants at their current nominal values. So people with snakes in their heads or people that have a lot of time in trained skills donÆt wined up having their efforts completely destroyed. Of course no one is ever happy at the prospect of having their efforts completely destroyed by the institution of a new policy.


I think most every one would agree that this would not kill small gang warfare, but rather it would add a new dynamic to the necessary piloting skills to be successful. Since speed tanked ships donÆt fit reps having even a small amount of hull/armor damage is a huge factor in the decision making process of any one piloting a nano/speed tanked ship. Conversely people might actually fit remote hull repairers to their ships for after combat repairs. And since these modules are very power thirsty, I would not think they would/could be use them wile still in combat. And I would bet most people would acknowledge that remote hull reps are almost completely absent from roaming speed gangs.


MOST importantly in the end analyses making a change like this adds new decision VRS penalty choice that every pilot would have to make. Yes people would be able to go at ôludicrousö speeds, but NOT FOR LONG and not with out a PENALTY. And as an added benefit since you are not making a huge change to the game dynamic. So I would expect the resulting ôUNEXPECTED result of X nerfö would be greatly diminished.


NOT TO MENTION YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A HUGE PORTION OF YOUÆRE PLAYER BASE UP IN ARMS. Happy customers are repeat customers!

---

Originally by: Rezaa

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Wellàààààalmost 200 reviews of this thread, and no one has jumped in to tell me how stupid I am and how this would never work!!


Hmmmm àà.. Might be onto something here.


I will be the first to say there would need to be some details that would need to be hammered out.

Such as- What about people that are logging back in to the game wile not in an alliance POS. // well you could code a delay to the Vne effect when some one just logs in. That would take care of that nicely.

And such as- What about caps that jump in on top of one another? (BTW both caps would be bumped pretty fast) my opinion would be to let them both suffer damage. Since the cyno pilot was dumb enough to pop it in the middle of the enemy cap fleet. (Knowing full well about the Vne effect beforehand) Once again calling for skill.


I think the best part of this solution is, it side steps all of the issues of balancing Modules/Skills/Gang effects/Implants completely. So no one loses out here. Every one can fit their ships how ever they want/trained for. And it doesnÆt make a difference because once you exceed Vne you take damage.

On a side note POPING you OWN ship from going to fast is not something any one is going to do very often. <Evil Grin> But will sure make for some funny comms!!!

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Originally by: Arcane Carnage

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Originally by: Rezaa

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Wellàààààalmost 200 reviews of this thread, and no one has jumped in to tell me how stupid I am and how this would never work!!


Hmmmm àà.. Might be onto something here.


I will be the first to say there would need to be some details that would need to be hammered out.

Such as- What about people that are logging back in to the game wile not in an alliance POS. // well you could code a delay to the Vne effect when some one just logs in. That would take care of that nicely.

And such as- What about caps that jump in on top of one another? (BTW both caps would be bumped pretty fast) my opinion would be to let them both suffer damage. Since the cyno pilot was dumb enough to pop it in the middle of the enemy cap fleet. (Knowing full well about the Vne effect beforehand) Once again calling for skill.


I think the best part of this solution is, it side steps all of the issues of balancing Modules/Skills/Gang effects/Implants completely. So no one loses out here. Every one can fit their ships how ever they want/trained for. And it doesnÆt make a difference because once you exceed Vne you take damage.

On a side note POPING you OWN ship from going to fast is not something any one is going to do very often. <Evil Grin> But will sure make for some funny comms!!!

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I like the idea, however I cannot justify it as this is space and in space there is no drag as someone said... might work in warp speed.

also your other point about taking damage if youe being bumped this is very close to the old impact damage idea that many people have brought up and been shot down over the years for over many different reasons the most memberable being the jita undock point. I still support the impact damage idea btw if anyones asking :p

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Originally by: Arcane Carnage
I like the idea, however I cannot justify it as this is space and in space there is no drag as someone said...:p[/quote

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MY GOD PEOPLE please read.


A Vne does NOT have to be based off of drag! It can be bases off of HULL STRESS-VIBRATION-HEAT-G_LOADING! This has been said by my self and others over and over.

It can be based off of ANY THING YOU LIKE or any combination of items.

Hell you could put a Vne cap because the FUZZY DICE WILL FALL OFF! (just illustrating a point)

But a Vne follows logic, IE go to fast and your ship falls apart and you die! Simple

Originally by: Draygo Korvan

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Technically in the real world, spacegoing objects do not have such limitation. For instance, there is no air in space to rip the wings off after you fly faster than a certain speed. Only rate of acceleration, and deceleration are limiting factors.

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Originally by: Keitaro Baka

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I can see where you're coming from with this idea, but it just isn't eve.

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Originally by: Darth Felin

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Imho it is not a very good idea. Lag is a reality in EvE and it is not very good to make mechanics that depends on lag heavily.

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Originally by: TJ17

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Originally by: Rezaa

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Edited by: Rezaa on 28/07/2008 20:48:18
I have a simple and elegant solution that would address the proposed speed problem. One in which I believe the player base with accept with out too much fuss and it still will address the speed issue definitively.

IÆm not sure how knowledgeable you are with aeronautical terminology so I will keep things simple.

I propose there be a new facet introduced to all ships. (Not just hull based) And that new facet should be called Vne (Velocity Never Exceed). This is an actual aircraft rating in the real world. In layman terms itÆs a speed at which you start causing abnormal stress/damage to an aircraftÆs hull. IE if you exceed the Vne too much for too long the wings will rip off or cause other catastrophic damage. By instituting this new dynamic you will be able to effectively kill the ôludicrousö speed as noted in the blog. With out the huge sweeping changes that are on SISI now.

As an idea how this would work: say a ship has a Vne rating of 5k/ms. Now if that same ship exceeds that rating it would start incurring hull damage. Now the amount of damage incurred VRS the amount of speed over the rated Vne is of course variable. And just as in real ships/aircraft some hulls are built more heavily then others.

Since this new dynamic is based in real life most every one will understand it and accept it. And bluntly it just makes sense that this is how things should work. Just as in real life: sure you can strap a MX missile to your back, nothing is stopping you. But youÆre not going to live long if you fire that bad boy off.

But an important effect of instituting a change like this is you can leave all the modules and implants at their current nominal values. So people with snakes in their heads or people that have a lot of time in trained skills donÆt wined up having their efforts completely destroyed. Of course no one is ever happy at the prospect of having their efforts completely destroyed by the institution of a new policy.


I think most every one would agree that this would not kill small gang warfare, but rather it would add a new dynamic to the necessary piloting skills to be successful. Since speed tanked ships donÆt fit reps having even a small amount of hull/armor damage is a huge factor in the decision making process of any one piloting a nano/speed tanked ship. Conversely people might actually fit remote hull repairers to their ships for after combat repairs. And since these modules are very power thirsty, I would not think they would/could be use them wile still in combat. And I would bet most people would acknowledge that remote hull reps are almost completely absent from roaming speed gangs.


MOST importantly in the end analyses making a change like this adds new decision VRS penalty choice that every pilot would have to make. Yes people would be able to go at ôludicrousö speeds, but NOT FOR LONG and not with out a PENALTY. And as an added benefit since you are not making a huge change to the game dynamic. So I would expect the resulting ôUNEXPECTED result of X nerfö would be greatly diminished.


NOT TO MENTION YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A HUGE PORTION OF YOUÆRE PLAYER BASE UP IN ARMS. Happy customers are repeat customers!

---

i fully support this awsome idea all hacs/cruisers should have a 5km/sec cap besides the vaga which should have a 6km/sec cap since its made for speed. and battleships and commander ships like a 3-4km/sec cap so you can still make station huggers cry.

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Originally by: Seleene Diago

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Better than this sweeping changes to fix a small problem that introduces a thousand new ones.

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Originally by: Seleene Diago

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Better than this sweeping changes to fix a small problem that introduces a thousand new ones.

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They fix a lot of problems. Ranging from small ships being useless, webs being broken, etc. We just got used to them.

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Originally by: Somal Thunder

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Edited by: Somal Thunder on 01/08/2008 18:39:10
I. People will finally use hull reppers.
II. I thought VNE only applied within atmospheres where there is friction to be had. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe space is near frictionless and that is one of the reasons comets, for example, can be thousands of miles long but burn completely up in atmospheres of planets.

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