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Yo Mommy Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.28 21:19:00 - [1] I am a gallente specced subcap pvp-pilot. I have about 23 mil sp and I'm beginning tofeel like I want to specc another race right now. Just to have some options except gallente. Would be nice to choose from a larger variety of ships :) But I really can't decide, I've been trying to decide for a month now but I can't. Every race have some ships I want to be able to fly and I need some help, or rather, not really help but just some good arguments. What I'm looking for are solo to med-sized gang pvp-ships. I already have a good Megathron Fleet-setup and I don't feel like I need to train more fleet ships since that kind of combat is a "because I have to" for me. Ships of certain interest, tho I'm really not sure: Geddon Vaga Torp-Raven Baddon Cerb (?) Phoon Ships you might suggest/use as an argument wich I'm not intrested in: Falcon Similar ew-cowardboats.
SuiJuris	Posted - 2008.07.28 21:22:00 - [2] Amarr, Lasers so your gunnery is not a waste. Also the Geddon and Harby make good use of Drones and are Excellent PVP ships you can easily get 700 DPS out of a Harby and upwards of 1000 out of a Geddon which is only like 10 mil to lose after insurance and fitting.
Greckor Monmouth THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.07.28 21:27:00 - [3] Amarr is a very fun race, but it might be a little too similar if you want to try something different. Geddon-AWESOME ship, very good gank ship vaga-fun to fly, you can go fast torp raven-can do good dps now, fun to fly IMO baddon-another great bs, oh so much fun cerb-mizziles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! a fun one, does some great damage phoon-very skill intensive, but if flown right it hurts :( If you really want to try something a little different I would try caldari, a fun race, and some fun ships. EW isnt all bad, sometimes it is fun to take a blackbird out and mess with people. Amarr are similar to gallente in that plate&gank is used a lot. I love most of the ships, not just because of how awesome they look, but because they are all fun to fly Minmatar have a little problem in the bs class, but their sub bs class ships are awesome, IMO 2 of the best CS out there, as well as 2 good battlecruisers (i like the cyclone, so sue me). Many different types of ships, very fun ones to fly.
d3vo The Space BorderLine United For 0rder	Posted - 2008.07.28 21:27:00 - [4] Edited by: d3vo on 28/07/2008 21:28:37 Caldari. The missile skills can be used elsewhere, i.e. Stealth Bombers, Minmatar ships, etc. Plus it is good for missions and POS bashing. Even though you don't like EW coward ships, they are VERY useful in gangs. i.e. falcon __________ \(^.^)/
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.28 21:41:00 - [5] Minmatar. No, I'm kidding. Really, train amarr. New FOTM by quite a stretch. Don't even consider minmatar ships if you like flying anything bigger than a BC.
Yo Mommy Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.28 23:23:00 - [6] Ya, the more I think about it the more Sweet Amarr seems. Mainly for the Geddon really, I LOVE heavy DPS, and heavy + cheap DPS is like a wet dream.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.07.28 23:57:00 - [7] Throwing in my support for Amarr. Just roasted a brutix on Sisi in a 760dps harb __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.29 00:25:00 - [8] Originally by: Greckor Monmouth vaga-fun to fly, you can go fast phoon-very skill intensive, but if flown right it hurts :( Well, the Vaga's soon to be nerfed beyond being usable. It's a bit cruel to try and convince someone to train to fly it. Also, the Phoon requires more SP than he has (in totality) to be even marginally useful. TBFH, if you were 100% spec'ed in Minmatar and had all your SP devoted to the Phoon, you'd just barely be beginning to make it fly like a ship. Well, if you want to fly the phoon, your gunnery will be 100% useless at any rate. Quote: Minmatar have a little problem in the bs class, but their sub bs class ships are awesome, IMO 2 of the best CS out there, as well as 2 good battlecruisers (i like the cyclone, so sue me). Many different types of ships, very fun ones to fly. Yeah, because the Stabber, Vagabond, Huginn, and Rapier didn't make up 90% of the Matari ships that actually got flown. Ok, so the Hurricane is great, because it's faster than the Harbinger. O WAIT NANO NERF... TBFH, advising someone to fly Matari is cruel right now, unless you're banking on a boost patch in a year or so. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Aimel	Posted - 2008.07.29 00:34:00 - [9] I'd say minmatar but the nanonerf isn't going to be really cool for them :x
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.29 00:36:00 - [10] Originally by: Aimel I'd say minmatar but the nanonerf isn't going to be really cool for them :x I wouldn't have said minmatar even pre nanonerf. Amarr or bust.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.29 00:52:00 - [11] Amarr would be the best bet now. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.07.29 02:27:00 - [12] I think I will train minmatar or gallente next. I am heavily amarr specced right now. leaning to gallente just because my drone skills and an ishtar/domi sounds nice. and the blaster thron then there's the phoon, maelstrom, hurricane, rupture, vaga, rifter, huggin/rapier. go ahead tell me they will be castrated after the changes, w/e I'll still fly them. just fly whatever the hell you want to fly
steveid Haiduken	Posted - 2008.07.29 02:43:00 - [13] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Greckor Monmouth vaga-fun to fly, you can go fast phoon-very skill intensive, but if flown right it hurts :( Well, the Vaga's soon to be nerfed beyond being usable. It's a bit cruel to try and convince someone to train to fly it. Also, the Phoon requires more SP than he has (in totality) to be even marginally useful. TBFH, if you were 100% spec'ed in Minmatar and had all your SP devoted to the Phoon, you'd just barely be beginning to make it fly like a ship. Well, if you want to fly the phoon, your gunnery will be 100% useless at any rate. Quote: Minmatar have a little problem in the bs class, but their sub bs class ships are awesome, IMO 2 of the best CS out there, as well as 2 good battlecruisers (i like the cyclone, so sue me). Many different types of ships, very fun ones to fly. Yeah, because the Stabber, Vagabond, Huginn, and Rapier didn't make up 90% of the Matari ships that actually got flown. Ok, so the Hurricane is great, because it's faster than the Harbinger. O WAIT NANO NERF... TBFH, advising someone to fly Matari is cruel right now, unless you're banking on a boost patch in a year or so. -Liang what in gods name are you talking about. The phhon without guns is a pretty easy ship to skill for .. t2 torps, t2 heavy drones. Done. And your trying to tell me the sac is now poor because of the nanonerf .. mmk.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.29 02:44:00 - [14] Originally by: steveid what in gods name are you talking about. The phhon without guns is a pretty easy ship to skill for .. t2 torps, t2 heavy drones. Done. And your trying to tell me the sac is now poor because of the nanonerf .. mmk. Sounds like less than you'd need for a raven that easily outclasses the phoon. Caldari BS 5 is actually worth something too.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.29 04:26:00 - [15] Originally by: steveid what in gods name are you talking about. The phhon without guns is a pretty easy ship to skill for .. t2 torps, t2 heavy drones. Done. And your trying to tell me the sac is now poor because of the nanonerf .. mmk. What are you on about? The Sac is Amarrian, and it pwns ****ign face. And lol if you say that t2 torps and t2 heavy drones are "easy" to skill for. Easy by what definition? Level 1 supports or something? GFG... but I must admit that the shoe fits for you. I'm not sure what cruel pleasure you derive from advising people to train the worst race in the game... I'd do it but only on the chance that they'd get overboosted in a year or so. I did, afterall, do that for Caldari. :) -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Spaztick Canadian Imperial Armaments EVESpace	Posted - 2008.07.29 05:29:00 - [16] Amarr. But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2008.07.29 07:02:00 - [17] holds his arms wide against the hull of his ship Keep your filthy french fingers away from our glorious empires ships! Seriously though, Amarr are fun, first started and never looked back. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Wil Smithx	Posted - 2008.07.29 08:20:00 - [18] Edited by: Wil Smithx on 29/07/2008 08:23:45 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Greckor Monmouth vaga-fun to fly, you can go fast phoon-very skill intensive, but if flown right it hurts :( Well, the Vaga's soon to be nerfed beyond being usable. It's a bit cruel to try and convince someone to train to fly it. Also, the Phoon requires more SP than he has (in totality) to be even marginally useful. TBFH, if you were 100% spec'ed in Minmatar and had all your SP devoted to the Phoon, you'd just barely be beginning to make it fly like a ship. Well, if you want to fly the phoon, your gunnery will be 100% useless at any rate. Quote: Minmatar have a little problem in the bs class, but their sub bs class ships are awesome, IMO 2 of the best CS out there, as well as 2 good battlecruisers (i like the cyclone, so sue me). Many different types of ships, very fun ones to fly. Yeah, because the Stabber, Vagabond, Huginn, and Rapier didn't make up 90% of the Matari ships that actually got flown. Ok, so the Hurricane is great, because it's faster than the Harbinger. O WAIT NANO NERF... TBFH, advising someone to fly Matari is cruel right now, unless you're banking on a boost patch in a year or so. -Liang God that was a bad troll, most these ships arent getting hit nearly as hard as your whining on about, I wish all you nano ***s would just shut up now Edit: Amarr or minmatar, I love the min BS but my skills with them are dreadful, trained caldari purely for the golem and its the only caldari ship I use
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.29 08:39:00 - [19] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 29/07/2008 08:40:12 Originally by: Wil Smithx God that was a bad troll, most these ships arent getting hit nearly as hard as your whining on about, I wish all you nano *s would just shut up now Well, the nano/web ships (Stabber,Vaga,Huggin,Rapier) are hit preety hard with a nano/web nerf, it'd be stupid to claim otherwise; the entire playstyle they relied on is nerfed, and some of the ships were borderline useless anyway (Stabber). There is very little reason to fly them instead of their competition now, particularly the Stabber/Vagabond. Originally by:** Wil Smithx Amarr or minmatar, I love the min BS but my skills with them are dreadful, trained caldari purely for the golem and its the only caldari ship I use Don't train Minmatar for our battleships. Out of three, one is purely bad, one is a Caldari ship with ACs (not a bad one, it's only marginally worse then a blaster-Rokh due to less EHP), and one is preety damn sweet and cheap, but requires skilling for drones+torps (and if you want max gank, gunneries too). If you want great battleships, I'd go with Amarr most likely. All of them rock. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Wil Smithx	Posted - 2008.07.29 08:56:00 - [20] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 29/07/2008 08:40:12 Originally by: Wil Smithx Amarr or minmatar, I love the min BS but my skills with them are dreadful, trained caldari purely for the golem and its the only caldari ship I use Don't train Minmatar for our battleships. Out of three, one is purely bad, one is a Caldari ship with ACs (not a bad one, it's only marginally worse then a blaster-Rokh due to less EHP), and one is preety damn sweet and cheap, but requires skilling for drones+torps (and if you want max gank, gunneries too). If you want great battleships, I'd go with Amarr most likely. All of them rock. A caldari ship with AC?! dear god thats the worst description I have ever heard, all the races got the same type of ship, a tier 3 battleship with 8 turrets and basicly the same bonuses, how does that make it caldari slap And while you boo the tempest, I like it a lot for NOT having 8 guns, the fact it has 2 empty highs makes it brilliant since it can fit neut and smartbomb as well as being able to keep damaging stuff after all cap is gone at up to 20km with basic falloff... The phoon doesnt require that many skills to fit, people always claim it needs advanced weapon upgrades and stuff but it really doesn't unless you try to put big guns on it, and If that sounds silly think about putting neutron blasters on a dominix and wonder why people generally don't... Also, I just saw stats for the vaga, thats a bit damned harsh, rapier and huginn not so much, since it can web its speed of 2km/s makes it easier to pin down thus putting back into the role of nano killer and not everything killer. But still, the vaga needs at least 4km/s to live...
Yukisa	Posted - 2008.07.29 10:11:00 - [21] How the wheel turns. Now the golden fleet is attractive again! If the changes remain, close ranged ships (blasters/ac) are in a world of hurt. Decreased acceleration rate, slower max speed. By the time you get into range, you are dead. Try caldari, missiles will so much pwn.
Yo Mommy Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.29 10:26:00 - [22] Edited by: Yo Mommy on 29/07/2008 10:34:19 Can't we skip the boring "Minnie sucks NAO!", "NO U!" - discussion? I rather listen to what you want to fly, than the whine about what you DON'T want fo fly.
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.29 11:00:00 - [23] I would say Caldari. Admittedly, you need two skill trees (shield tanking and the actual ships) but presuming you have the gun skills already (as you will have as a Megathron fleet pilot) this gets you into a Rokh, the best sniper in the game bar none IMHO. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.07.29 11:09:00 - [24] Nano nerf will benefit many caldari ships.. nighthawks precision bonus will actually be useful.. AB cerb is not a lol ship anymore Falcon = the sex Torp raven = the dps sex and i dont doubt many other cal ships will begin to shine when their nano rivals no longer overshadow them.. poudly annoying fc's since 2007 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123 caldari drone boat enthusiast
Yo Mommy Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.29 13:43:00 - [25] Now I want both Amarr and Caldari Hmm.. Amarr is closer so I think I'll go there first, after that I start on missiles so I can use some missile Amarr ships and after that shield and then the transaction to Caldari will be smooth. What you guys think?
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.29 14:12:00 - [26] I see some Amarr envy in this thread. 1. tbh Abaddon is the worst amarr bs :P and those who praise it i think are looking more at eft then flying the thing. You only have cap boosters for 4 minutes (and you need all of them for shooting lazors)... that makes the abaddon the worst fleet bs in the game :) or maybe you like flying an alt with a hauler full of cap boosters with you if you wanna go somewhere. (you're out of cap boosters even in small gang fights... if the enemy brings you targets to shoot at ... batleship gangs) 1vs1 ... dont forget it has the worst dmg type ... and this will always remain true against armour tankers) 2. geddon - 3 mid slots lol. after the web nerf you wont ever be able to hit something close range. 3. apoc - the good bs - we'll see (nice range, nice capacitor, no dmg bonus tho) The hacs and recons are good but dont forget that except the zealot they dont require amarr skills to be flown (missles and drones)
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.29 14:17:00 - [27] i made a mistake .. you have more cap with the abaddon if you dont count neuts ... so 6 minutes max.
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.29 14:39:00 - [28] if the next flavour of the month will be the RR batleships ... raven, tempest and domi are the best battlehips :) if hacs will be underpowered by lack of speed and even the fastest interceptos will be slaughtered by drones - hurricane, harby, myrm and drake will be the best ships in the game for roaming except in RR batleship gangs. the hordes of nano pilots will respec for electronic warfare ... so that leavs the drake followed closely by the myrm.
Wil Smithx	Posted - 2008.07.29 14:55:00 - [29] Originally by: gavhriel I see some Amarr envy in this thread. 1. tbh Abaddon is the worst amarr bs :P and those who praise it i think are looking more at eft then flying the thing. You only have cap boosters for 4 minutes (and you need all of them for shooting lazors)... that makes the abaddon the worst fleet bs in the game :) or maybe you like flying an alt with a hauler full of cap boosters with you if you wanna go somewhere. (you're out of cap boosters even in small gang fights... if the enemy brings you targets to shoot at ... batleship gangs) 1vs1 ... dont forget it has the worst dmg type ... and this will always remain true against armour tankers) 2. geddon - 3 mid slots lol. after the web nerf you wont ever be able to hit something close range. 3. apoc - the good bs - we'll see (nice range, nice capacitor, no dmg bonus tho) The hacs and recons are good but dont forget that except the zealot they dont require amarr skills to be flown (missles and drones) Screw your worst damage type, thats only true of plate tanks and you even had the EM resistance on that nerfed, so STFU! Most active tanking armour ships have a hole in EM not to mention you laugh through the shield buffer. The abaddon is an awesome ship unless your a noob and put tachyon beams on it, which as we all know are a tier above all other turrets thus very hard to fit on your BS. Apoc doesn't really need a damage bonus when its using megapulses at god knows what range : /
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.29 15:11:00 - [30] Originally by: gavhriel downplaying amarr battleships Dude. Amarr and Caldari have THE BEST battleship lineups ingame. I have one word for you. Scorch.
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.29 15:25:00 - [31] Yes i was downplaying amarr batleships cose i find it funny to see them praised by people that in fact fly other races :) and want other races boosted wihtout haveing to deal with the downsides of amarr. Raven as a gang/fleet ship is superiour atm to any amarr batleship (except the apoc megapulse in small gangs against small targets (not against other bs) and tachyons in fleets) Close the eft and think about it ... no cap ... no dmg :) and tracking disruptors take care of your dmg even if you still have cap. and i promise you'll see a lot of tracking disruptors after the speed nerf.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.29 15:33:00 - [32] Originally by: gavhriel Yes i was downplaying amarr batleships cose i find it funny to see them praised by people that in fact fly other races :) and want other races boosted wihtout haveing to deal with the downsides of amarr. Raven as a gang/fleet ship is superiour atm to any amarr batleship (except the apoc megapulse in small gangs against small targets (not against other bs) and tachyons in fleets) Close the eft and think about it ... no cap ... no dmg :) and tracking disruptors take care of your dmg even if you still have cap. and i promise you'll see a lot of tracking disruptors after the speed nerf. Yes, I'm an EFT warrior and have never flown a geddon, abaddon, or apoc. I DON'T in fact, have minmatar battleship 5, large projectiles 5, amarr battleship 4, large energy turret 4. Until we see some sort of patch, I have 0 (zero) reason to ever fly a minmatar battleship ever again. (PS, you're exaggerating cap issues. Train your cap skills and controlled bursts to 5. I did. :) )
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.29 15:38:00 - [33] i promise i'm not exagerating the cap issues :P i was in a fight against a 13 bs gang plus some suport yesterday for example....after their first 6 battleships were down i was out of cap and out of cap boosters in an abaddon. The funny part was that with no cap i deagressed and jumped while in structure :P so yeah..the huge effective hp of the abaddon helped me there. i have max cap skills and almost max gunnery skills. (my minmatar char has lev5 bs but i'm not there yet with the drones and torps)
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.29 15:41:00 - [34] Originally by: gavhriel i promise i'm not exagerating the cap issues :P i was in a fight against a 13 bs gang plus some suport yesterday for example....after their first 6 battleships were down i was out of cap and out of cap boosters in an abaddon. The funny part was that with no cap i deagressed and jumped while in structure :P so yeah..the huge effective hp of the abaddon helped me there. i have max cap skills and almost max gunnery skills. (my minmatar char has lev5 bs but i'm not there yet with the drones and torps) Promise you are If you're using MF or conflag in a 13 battleship fight... you're doing it wrong.
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.29 15:44:00 - [35] Edited by: gavhriel on 29/07/2008 15:45:14 Amarr navy MF and full tank (4 plates, 3 trimark, 2 eanm2, 1 dc2) abaddon with no dmg mods to not get ****ed more about the greater rof from heatsinks. everybody was at 0 on the gate ... why should i use scorch over amarr navy MF ... dont be childish.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.29 15:45:00 - [36] Originally by: Wil Smithx A caldari ship with AC?! dear god thats the worst description I have ever heard, all the races got the same type of ship, a tier 3 battleship with 8 turrets and basicly the same bonuses, how does that make it caldari slap Agility. Speed. Shield-tank so either gimping tackle or gimping tank (active bonused at that!). That sort of thing. Originally by: Wil Smithx And while you boo the tempest, I like it a lot for NOT having 8 guns, the fact it has 2 empty highs makes it brilliant since it can fit neut and smartbomb as well as being able to keep damaging stuff after all cap is gone at up to 20km with basic falloff... Yeah, but Megatron with null does the ranged firing better all the way up to disruptor range. What gives? Originally by: Wil Smithx The phoon doesnt require that many skills to fit, people always claim it needs advanced weapon upgrades and stuff but it really doesn't unless you try to put big guns on it, and If that sounds silly think about putting neutron blasters on a dominix and wonder why people generally don't... Phoon is not competitive without torps+plates+MWD+etc. But it is our best BS. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.07.29 16:07:00 - [37] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 29/07/2008 16:07:54 Amarr. If you train minmatar after gallente, you will probably bug report their damage output. --- Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.29 16:10:00 - [38] so to answer the op ... all races are fun to fly and any race has some ships that excel at a role be it solo pvp, small gangs, fleets and things like that. Some ships give different results in 3 men gangs an can really shine ... and in 5 to 7 men gangs they begin to suck :P (lke some recons that are primary targets for example, curse anyone? :P) Some cry about their batleships not being good at 1vs1 but those batleships can shine as the numbers in the gang grow (even the tempest can be better than any amarr bs in a rr bs gang when you'll face heavy neuts and you'll be able to deal dmg far longer then 6 minutes) Some hacs are good in small gangs - deimos but suck in larger ones (yeah zealot is better ... but you'll never beat a deimos with ecm drones in a zealot witout polycarbons, will you )
Submaster82 Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.07.29 16:11:00 - [39] Train nothing as once amarr is nerfed, which i can't see how it can be done with out cripperling them as their main advantages atm of being able to deal loads of dps or tank like a beast and have good ranges but have no speed if nerfed will result in them most likely being glass cannons or cannons shooting cotton wool :)
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.29 18:35:00 - [40] Originally by: gavhriel why should i use scorch over amarr navy MF ... dont be childish. Reading comprehension FTW? Anyway... like I said, you're being dramatic. 8x MP II, ANMF 0 damage mods. Fire nonstop for 5 minutes. Add in cap boosters. 400s for giggles. 16m3 each. After fitting 10 in your cap booster you can easily fit another 30 or so thanks to your ammo taking no room. Meaning ontop of your 5 minutes, you can permarun your lasers for another (40x12) or 8 minutes. That's wasting some cap too, since you're really adding 52 and using 42. So in reality you get another 25%, or 10 minutes. That's 15 minutes of nonstop firing. That's using MF too. Switch to gamma and you can get 17 minutes. Anyway, carry on.
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:03:00 - [41] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: gavhriel why should i use scorch over amarr navy MF ... dont be childish. Reading comprehension FTW? Anyway... like I said, you're being dramatic. 8x MP II, ANMF 0 damage mods. Fire nonstop for 5 minutes. Add in cap boosters. 400s for giggles. 16m3 each. After fitting 10 in your cap booster you can easily fit another 30 or so thanks to your ammo taking no room. Meaning ontop of your 5 minutes, you can permarun your lasers for another (40x12) or 8 minutes. That's wasting some cap too, since you're really adding 52 and using 42. So in reality you get another 25%, or 10 minutes. That's 15 minutes of nonstop firing. That's using MF too. Switch to gamma and you can get 17 minutes. Anyway, carry on.
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:34:00 - [42] At least the torp ravens cant really fit heavy neuts ... cruise missle ravens can and also domis, tempests, and typhoons. That's what makes these ships better in close range bs gangs.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:34:00 - [43] With 800s and a MWD your cap still lasts 11 minutes. Lern2controlcap? I dunno dude. You're not going to run out of cap that quickly.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:35:00 - [44] Originally by: AstroPhobic With 800s and a MWD your cap still lasts 11 minutes. Lern2controlcap? I dunno dude. You're not going to run out of cap that quickly. PS, a tempest with any resemblence of a tank does something like 500 DPS at 3km with heavy neuts and damage drones. At a more realistic 15-20km, you're looking underneath 400. As in, the DPS of a t1 cruiser.
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:48:00 - [45] i was saying earlier :P (everybody fits heavy neuts these days) and amarr bs are ofc neuted first (after the mega) the tempest can fit a heavy neut and a large remote repper. (or 2 heavy neuts for an even smaller gang setup) (that's why i'm skilling up a minmatar char anyway ... cose minmatar are cool) (or 1 heavy neut and 1 smartbomb)
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:49:00 - [46] Edited by: gavhriel on 29/07/2008 19:49:50 Originally by: gavhriel i was saying earlier :P (everybody fits heavy neuts these days) and amarr bs are ofc neuted first (after the mega) the tempest can fit a heavy neut and a large remote repper. (or 2 heavy neuts for an even smaller gang setup) (that's why i'm skilling up a minmatar char anyway ... cose minmatar are cool) (or 1 heavy neut and 1 smartbomb) and your tempest will outdamage the cruise missle raven...(both can fit electronic warfare modules too)
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:49:00 - [47] Originally by: gavhriel i was saying earlier :P (everybody fits heavy neuts these days) and amarr bs are ofc neuted first (after the mega) the tempest can fit a heavy neut and a large remote repper. (or 2 heavy neuts for an even smaller gang setup) (that's why i'm skilling up a minmatar char anyway ... cose minmatar are cool) (or 1 heavy neut and 1 smartbomb) TBH, I'd rather have 1200 DPS at 15km with 10 minutes of firing, and more armor, than 500 DPS at 3km with 2 lovely utility slots. But that's just me. Skill for what you want.
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.29 19:55:00 - [48] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: gavhriel i was saying earlier :P (everybody fits heavy neuts these days) and amarr bs are ofc neuted first (after the mega) the tempest can fit a heavy neut and a large remote repper. (or 2 heavy neuts for an even smaller gang setup) (that's why i'm skilling up a minmatar char anyway ... cose minmatar are cool) (or 1 heavy neut and 1 smartbomb) TBH, I'd rather have 1200 DPS at 15km with 10 minutes of firing, and more armor, than 500 DPS at 3km with 2 lovely utility slots. But that's just me. Skill for what you want. with my fit i was doing 600 dps (i was using ecm drones) and i fired for 6 minutes :P
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.29 20:01:00 - [49] Originally by: gavhriel with my fit i was doing 600 dps (i was using ecm drones) and i fired for 6 minutes :P (no..even less...eft shows me 554 dps at all lev 5 skills) And does 760 with damage drones. Or with ECM drones the tempest does something closer to 375. With a FAR worse tank. You're not going to win this battle tbfh. With damage mods it just gets funny.
Slade Hoo Amarr xPlaguex	Posted - 2008.07.29 20:40:00 - [50] little advice: don't train for FOTM. You will only whine in the forums in a few months...fly what you like to fly (ship role) and you'll be fine
Tao Han Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:20:00 - [51] And the FOTM ppl bounce right back
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:27:00 - [52] Originally by: Tao Han And the FOTM ppl bounce right back Yup, guess the 2006 amarr people are going back to amarr. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:28:00 - [53] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: gavhriel downplaying amarr battleships Dude. Amarr and Caldari have THE BEST battleship lineups ingame. I have one word for you. Scorch. But have you SEEN the tracking you get with Spike L on a Rokh? .0002. That's pretty bad - my CAR can go faster than that at fleet ranges, and it's AMERICAN made. Of course if you want to talk the close range BS game I think the Torp Raven is just about awesome. The scorp has it's place in fleets and I hold out hope that I'll come up with a magic fitting to make it awesome in small gang/solo play.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:35:00 - [54] You can always fit a rokh with blasters for comedy blaster range, or use Faction t1 ammo though.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:35:00 - [55] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Tao Han And the FOTM ppl bounce right back Yup, guess the 2006 amarr people are going back to amarr. I've got enough skills in Amarr stuff that I'm training cruiser V just for their T2 crusier line. That Sac will fill in my missing "close range missile HAC" that the cerberus just does NOT want to fill. The zealot is like an Eagle only it's awesome. The Curse was fantastic I don't know what I'll think of it after the patch (having only flown against them I know they can be lethal if you don't have a way to kill off those damn drones effectively or hit the Curse). Plus, as a wierd side effect of my early days of waffling about I don't really have many support skills to train. Basically it's just the laser skills themeslves.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:36:00 - [56] Originally by: AstroPhobic You can always fit a rokh with blasters for comedy blaster range, or use Faction t1 ammo though. Personally I use faction ammo because I don't have the t2 hybrids skills and see no reason to bother, being a staunch hater of fleet combat (it's like the deer hunter without the oscar noms)
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:54:00 - [57] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: gavhriel with my fit i was doing 600 dps (i was using ecm drones) and i fired for 6 minutes :P (no..even less...eft shows me 554 dps at all lev 5 skills) And does 760 with damage drones. Or with ECM drones the tempest does something closer to 375. With a FAR worse tank. You're not going to win this battle tbfh. With damage mods it just gets funny. don't get me wrong "about the fight" :) i love amarr and i use them at what they're good for. But until you'll run out of cap and look helpless at the people fighting around you ... you wont understand the frustration of cap using gun lovers :)
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.29 21:59:00 - [58] Originally by: gavhriel don't get me wrong "about the fight" :) i love amarr and i use them at what they're good for. But until you'll run out of cap and look helpless at the people fighting around you ... you wont understand the frustration of cap using gun lovers :) K. I still don't see capless as a tradeoff for 50% reduction in damage, 1/5th the range, and a **** poor tank, but whatever you want.
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.29 23:04:00 - [59] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: gavhriel don't get me wrong "about the fight" :) i love amarr and i use them at what they're good for. But until you'll run out of cap and look helpless at the people fighting around you ... you wont understand the frustration of cap using gun lovers :) K. I still don't see capless as a tradeoff for 50% reduction in damage, 1/5th the range, and a **** poor tank, but whatever you want. if you put 2 torp launchers the tempest will outdamage the abaddon (no dmg mods on both) and still be capless.... chosing the dmg type will actually outdamage it by far. (no drones)
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.29 23:20:00 - [60] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: gavhriel Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: gavhriel don't get me wrong "about the fight" :) i love amarr and i use them at what they're good for. But until you'll run out of cap and look helpless at the people fighting around you ... you wont understand the frustration of cap using gun lovers :) K. I still don't see capless as a tradeoff for 50% reduction in damage, 1/5th the range, and a **** poor tank, but whatever you want. if you put 2 torp launchers the tempest will outdamage the abaddon (no dmg mods on both) and still be capless.... chosing the dmg type will actually outdamage it by far. (no drones) Not fitting any damage mods is stupid. It's like saying the typhoon is the most damaging ship. It is. Only when fitted with 7 damage mods. PS, the pest's range is a LOT less than the baddon, and the tank is shit. whatever :) just dont put words in my mouth (and yes the typhoon is better :) it's about the gang you're in and what you intend to do with the ship. But dont tell me to fly an abaddon relaying on 400 cap boosters and natural cap recharge ... that's just very unprofessional of you :)
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.07.29 23:32:00 - [61] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: steveid what in gods name are you talking about. The phhon without guns is a pretty easy ship to skill for .. t2 torps, t2 heavy drones. Done. And your trying to tell me the sac is now poor because of the nanonerf .. mmk. What are you on about? The Sac is Amarrian, and it pwns ****ign face. And lol if you say that t2 torps and t2 heavy drones are "easy" to skill for. Easy by what definition? Level 1 supports or something? GFG... but I must admit that the shoe fits for you. I'm not sure what cruel pleasure you derive from advising people to train the worst race in the game... I'd do it but only on the chance that they'd get overboosted in a year or so. I did, afterall, do that for Caldari. :) -Liang so do I get to go cry about training for t2 large turrets and t2 heavy drones for the geddon now?
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.29 23:50:00 - [62] Statistically speaking, it's not much different at all from cap 800s. But your natural recharge helps, regardless of whether you'd like to accept it or not. 400s Just makes calculations easier.
Mire Stoude Cash Money Brothers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.07.30 02:36:00 - [63] I have the same dilemma for which race I want to go t2 next. I'm a Gallente spec pilot but I can fly all races up to battle cruiser. I also have a large wish list of ships I want to be able to fly. So I did the logical thing and made a list of which ships I want to fly then I put a number next to them between 1 and 5 of my overall desire to fly said ship (5 the highest). Then added up the totals. The numbers said I should train Minmatar. However, I'm totally chucking the logic out the window and going with my gut!!! Yah baby, I am going to fly Amarr cause the Geddon is so pimp.
Greckor Monmouth THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.07.30 05:08:00 - [64] god liang, stop whining so bad, maybe adapt and survive? with the nerf to webs, you can still do awesome, I took out a vaga with a couple speed mods and an ab, fitted it for make dps, and owned a couple BS's. your old cookie cutter 8km/s setups wont work as well anymore, but the vaga is still great. I cant believe you say the hurricane isnt good....damnit, your so fail.
Spectre3353 Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.07.30 05:14:00 - [65] Originally by: Mire Stoude I have the same dilemma for which race I want to go t2 next. I'm a Gallente spec pilot but I can fly all races up to battle cruiser. I also have a large wish list of ships I want to be able to fly. So I did the logical thing and made a list of which ships I want to fly then I put a number next to them between 1 and 5 of my overall desire to fly said ship (5 the highest). Then added up the totals. The numbers said I should train Minmatar. However, I'm totally chucking the logic out the window and going with my gut!!! Yah baby, I am going to fly Amarr cause the Geddon is so pimp. I'm basically in the same boat. About 6mil SP, mostly in Gallente and I went and crosstrained Amarr so I could fly a Crusader. Other than that though the pickings are kind of slim... the other Amarr inti's, frigs, af's and cruisers are either crap or on the same level as the Gallente ones so I have no desire to fly any of them. The only other bastion of hope I have is that I'll like the Harbinger more than the Brutix (which I probably will since the Brutix kind of blows ass). Sub-battleship, Amarr is kind of "meh" compared to Gallente so far. ----- http://evenewb.blogspot.com/
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.30 05:26:00 - [66] Edited by: Derek Sigres on 30/07/2008 05:31:21 Originally by: Greckor Monmouth god liang, stop whining so bad, maybe adapt and survive? with the nerf to webs, you can still do awesome, I took out a vaga with a couple speed mods and an ab, fitted it for make dps, and owned a couple BS's. your old cookie cutter 8km/s setups wont work as well anymore, but the vaga is still great. I cant believe you say the hurricane isnt good....damnit, your so fail. You DO realize that that 700 DPS figure people quote about the Cane is a fabrication right? Unless the cane is in optimal which I'm almost certain will not happen with the 3k or so optimal range. Really the cane is only pushing half that since it's going to be at DEEP A/C falloff much of the time. Sufficient speeed can mask a lot of minmitar ship problems - and coming soon you simply won't have that sufficient speed. Afterall, being faster is of little consequence with the difference is low enough, and if you can't generate enough speed to augment your tank by much then the overall flimsyness of minnie ships is thrown into sharp reflection. Vagabonds for example rely on a fairly thin shield buffer to stay alive, hoping their speed compensates. I can tell you from personal experience once you get a ship that cna HIT vagas reliably they cese to be be a threat. My AML Cerb has no issue forcing vagas from the field and getting the occasional kill. Yes the Vaga's EFT readout says it does more DPS but in all reality if it wants to deal turret damage it clicks off it's MWD. And even then if it doens't fall into very close range I'm STILL generating more DPS than they are with a sturider tank to boot. Of course that only holds true for a T2 fit vaga - the rarer deadspace/snaked ones could STILL hit speeds close to or in excess of my ability to hit them (7.2 k/s represents the upper limit - after that my missiels won't catch you period). on the flip side all you have to worry about is a few easily dispatched drones and (potentially) a single missile launcher's damage at that point. To kill me solo a pimped vaga STILL has to slow down where once again my DPS and tank superiority win the day.
Greckor Monmouth THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.07.30 05:49:00 - [67] Originally by: Derek Sigres Edited by: Derek Sigres on 30/07/2008 05:31:21 Originally by: Greckor Monmouth god liang, stop whining so bad, maybe adapt and survive? with the nerf to webs, you can still do awesome, I took out a vaga with a couple speed mods and an ab, fitted it for make dps, and owned a couple BS's. your old cookie cutter 8km/s setups wont work as well anymore, but the vaga is still great. I cant believe you say the hurricane isnt good....damnit, your so fail. You DO realize that that 700 DPS figure people quote about the Cane is a fabrication right? Unless the cane is in optimal which I'm almost certain will not happen with the 3k or so optimal range. Really the cane is only pushing half that since it's going to be at DEEP A/C falloff much of the time. Sufficient speeed can mask a lot of minmitar ship problems - and coming soon you simply won't have that sufficient speed. Afterall, being faster is of little consequence with the difference is low enough, and if you can't generate enough speed to augment your tank by much then the overall flimsyness of minnie ships is thrown into sharp reflection. Vagabonds for example rely on a fairly thin shield buffer to stay alive, hoping their speed compensates. I can tell you from personal experience once you get a ship that cna HIT vagas reliably they cese to be be a threat. My AML Cerb has no issue forcing vagas from the field and getting the occasional kill. Yes the Vaga's EFT readout says it does more DPS but in all reality if it wants to deal turret damage it clicks off it's MWD. And even then if it doens't fall into very close range I'm STILL generating more DPS than they are with a sturider tank to boot. Of course that only holds true for a T2 fit vaga - the rarer deadspace/snaked ones could STILL hit speeds close to or in excess of my ability to hit them (7.2 k/s represents the upper limit - after that my missiels won't catch you period). on the flip side all you have to worry about is a few easily dispatched drones and (potentially) a single missile launcher's damage at that point. To kill me solo a pimped vaga STILL has to slow down where once again my DPS and tank superiority win the day. the only ships i comment on are ones I fly. I can fly almost every non cap ship in game, excluding gallente/amarr t2 ships and all t2 bs's. I am not good with many of them, but I fly most of them, on the test server if not on the real server. I have been running around on the test server a lot over the past 2 days looking at the patch. My hurricane can still beat a harb, my vaga is still awesome. I tested a lolfit tanked vaga on the test server and it did fine, as well as the ab vaga i mentioned. These are actually viable fits but people just dont want to change and thus are crying because of the nerf. I love most of the minnie ships. I shall be one of the first to say that the battleships need some help... But i do think that minmatar field one of, if not THE best sub bs lineup out there.
Mahke Carrion Crows	Posted - 2008.07.30 06:25:00 - [68] Edited by: Mahke on 30/07/2008 06:31:31 Amarr. Minmatar, who can say how they will actually fair on TQ after the patch comes in, but, probably not good. If you won't fly ecm (falcon), and with the drake only being good for solo/small gangs due to missile delay, caldari don't fill the holes in the gallente lineup (t2 cruiser (after the ishtar can't be speedtanked anymore), battlecruiser, command ship). Amarr do, harb, zealot, Sac, curse, absolution all excellent, all doing what the gallente lack. Only problem is that amarr is so far ahead of the pack right now (as long as you're willing to put up with the terrible t1 frigs/cruisers) theres the danger of a sickening nerfbat hit in the future.
gavhriel Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.30 07:04:00 - [69] Originally by: Mahke Edited by: Mahke on 30/07/2008 06:31:31 Amarr. Minmatar, who can say how they will actually fair on TQ after the patch comes in, but, probably not good. If you won't fly ecm (falcon), and with the drake only being good for solo/small gangs due to missile delay, caldari don't fill the holes in the gallente lineup (t2 cruiser (after the ishtar can't be speedtanked anymore), battlecruiser, command ship). Amarr do, harb, zealot, Sac, curse, absolution all excellent, all doing what the gallente lack. Only problem is that amarr is so far ahead of the pack right now (as long as you're willing to put up with the terrible t1 frigs/cruisers) theres the danger of a sickening nerfbat hit in the future. it's so funny ... after the speed changes...in a world that will be dominated be small ships and range (getting in range will still be easy with warpins and small ships tho) amarr are far from everpowered. (the Drake will be the king of the hill, and missles will rule with no electronic warfare against them)
Mahke Carrion Crows	Posted - 2008.07.30 07:24:00 - [70] Originally by: gavhriel Originally by: Mahke Edited by: Mahke on 30/07/2008 06:31:31 Amarr. Minmatar, who can say how they will actually fair on TQ after the patch comes in, but, probably not good. If you won't fly ecm (falcon), and with the drake only being good for solo/small gangs due to missile delay, caldari don't fill the holes in the gallente lineup (t2 cruiser (after the ishtar can't be speedtanked anymore), battlecruiser, command ship). Amarr do, harb, zealot, Sac, curse, absolution all excellent, all doing what the gallente lack. Only problem is that amarr is so far ahead of the pack right now (as long as you're willing to put up with the terrible t1 frigs/cruisers) theres the danger of a sickening nerfbat hit in the future. it's so funny ... after the speed changes...in a world that will be dominated be small ships and range (getting in range will still be easy with warpins and small ships tho) amarr are far from everpowered. (the Drake will be the king of the hill, and missles will rule with no electronic warfare against them) my skillpoints are where my mouth is: I'm currently crosstraining amarr. You could be right, but while missiles will rock for solo and small gang, how much solo actually happens, and in a medium to large force the delay absolutely wrecks them (alpha on primary as soon as the last one goes down Matters). And anyway, the amarr BS are almost right up there with the torp raven and the harbinger with the drake for sheer dps/tank. And lasers track very nicely. While you may have a point about turret disrupters, remember, they are amarr bonused EW and the arbitrator, sentinel, and curse will all benefit if they become more important. Furthermore, you want to talk small ships and range, you got the sentinel, crusader, still-viable hacs and recon, and on the other side the best BS sniper in the game (apoc). Most of that is irrelevant. The point being that amarr provide a strong command ship, which the caldari don't, good non-ecm t2 cruisers, which the caldari don't (except the onyx, which is strictly inferior to the broadsword), and an excellent battlecruiser (the drake is as well, but, its applications are a little less broad). These are things the gallente lineup can really use.
KISOGOKU	Posted - 2008.07.30 09:58:00 - [71] Edited by: KISOGOKU on 30/07/2008 09:59:27 I guess it is a circle one day your at bottom of food chain and one day later you are the new overlord at foodchain .Im missile/caldari specced (and some EW skills) since i started game and i remember NO RAVEN days ,now i became new overlord i guess .Game changes nerf/buff circle never ends ,train for whatever you like to fly. if you train FOTM youll kick yourself at another nerf. Originally by: gavhriel it's so funny ... after the speed changes...in a world that will be dominated be small ships and range (getting in range will still be easy with warpins and small ships tho) amarr are far from everpowered. (the Drake will be the king of the hill, and missles will rule with no electronic warfare against them)
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.07.30 10:07:00 - [72] Originally by: Greckor Monmouth god liang, stop whining so bad, maybe adapt and survive? I really dont get why liang is whining so much about every nerf, he flies 3 out of 4 races. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.07.30 10:08:00 - [73] Originally by: Mahke Only problem is that amarr is so far ahead of the pack right now (as long as you're willing to put up with the terrible t1 frigs/cruisers) theres the danger of a sickening nerfbat hit in the future. Not really, people just need to think out side the box. Just like amarr had to a while back. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Kano Sekor Amarr The Movement	Posted - 2008.07.30 11:28:00 - [74] Lol since i know your main i whould like to see you fly minmatar so i can laugh at you while your flying a wreck. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2008.07.30 11:37:00 - [75] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 30/07/2008 11:36:55 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Mahke Only problem is that amarr is so far ahead of the pack right now (as long as you're willing to put up with the terrible t1 frigs/cruisers) theres the danger of a sickening nerfbat hit in the future. Not really, people just need to think out side the box. Just like amarr had to a while back. Aye, while we had our complainers, most amarr have grown such a thick skin and "outside box" mentality that there's just no way we'll ever accept that some people "can't cope" Back on top baby! My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.

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