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yrknat
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Posted - 2008.07.29 23:56:00 -
[1]
It has a RoF bonus. It just looks like 2.
A RoF bonus to the first 4 slots, then a RoF bonus to the last 4 slots = 1 bonus. Give it a second ship bonus please.
Also give it more armour hp than shield hp, its clearly an armour tanking ship.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:04:00 -
[2]
Also, make it more agile than a freakin' Hyperion.
FFS.
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DeadRow
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:04:00 -
[3]
A bonus for two of its weapons systems = 2 bonus'
The phoon is a good ship- just takes time train properly for 
 Quote:
Iz in ur base, implanting ur dudes
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:07:00 -
[4]
Originally by: DeadRow
A bonus for two of its weapons systems = 2 bonus'
The phoon is a good ship- just takes time train properly for
No other ship has this "wonderful" pair of bonuses.
BTW, the raven outdoes the phoon... would you like me to pull up setups and numbers again? Unless you're using it for a RR gang, and even then you only fit missiles.
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yrknat
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:09:00 -
[5]
Originally by: DeadRow
A bonus for two of its weapons systems = 2 bonus'
The phoon is a good ship- just takes time train properly for
You know what we should do, we should remove that capacitor bonus from the geddon, then give it a RoF bonus to half its guns. To compensate we'll then give it a RoF bonus to its other guns.
Now there you have another ship with 2 ship bonus', you'd have no problems with this right?
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Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments
EVESpace
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:11:00 -
[6]
Phoon is at best a utility ship. Nobody will be fitting 4 torps or 4 ACs, and even if they did it would still be one bonus to two weapon systems (a single 5% RoF bonus).
That's like giving only a RoF bonus to the raven for torps and nothing else. Or giving a damage bonus but no tracking to a mega. It sucks in other words.
But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post. |
P'uck
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
BTW, the raven outdoes the phoon... would you like me to pull up setups and numbers again? Unless you're using it for a RR gang, and even then you only fit missiles.
Why shouldn't it, it costs about 20 to 30 mil more?
The phoon as it is, RIGHT now, on tranq, with all it's weirnesses and screwed up stats...
it's perfect. It's a work of art. 
DON'T touch my phoon.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:12:00 -
[8]
Originally by: P'uck
Originally by: AstroPhobic
BTW, the raven outdoes the phoon... would you like me to pull up setups and numbers again? Unless you're using it for a RR gang, and even then you only fit missiles.
Why shouldn't it, it costs about 20 to 30 mil more?
The phoon as it is, RIGHT now, on tranq, with all it's weirnesses and screwed up stats...
it's perfect. It's a work of art.
DON'T touch my phoon.
It's about to get bum****d. Innncoming!
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:14:00 -
[9]
Oh noes!
That added mass is a joke, a bad one at that. Moves the phoon from to 
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Amandin Adouin
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: yrknat
It has a RoF bonus. It just looks like 2.
A RoF bonus to the first 4 slots, then a RoF bonus to the last 4 slots = 1 bonus. Give it a second ship bonus please.
Also give it more armour hp than shield hp, its clearly an armour tanking ship.
I used to wonder about this also... but then I realized that, one day, that fateful day would come when mummy and papa would sit me down and explain all of that naughtiness not meant for a little girl's ears 
And then I got a Raven and everything was good.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:34:00 -
[11]
and the tempest only has 1 bonus, rof and damage bonuses, just to compensate for the gimped acs!!!!
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
and the tempest only has 1 bonus, rof and damage bonuses, just to compensate for the gimped acs!!!!
This is true. Merge those bonuses and give it a 50% sexiness factor per level, and a role bonus of badass masts.
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Amandin Adouin
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:35:00 -
[13]
And the mael's shield bonus is completely unnecessary in fleet battles. Wow we're screwed.
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:36:00 -
[14]
The phoon should have +1 turret and launcher slots. And the RoF bonus should be 6%.
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
I'm the Juggernaut, *****! |
P'uck
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:38:00 -
[15]
Edited by: P''uck on 30/07/2008 00:38:12
Originally by: Anubis Xian
The phoon should have +1 turret and launcher slots. And the RoF bonus should be 6%.
I'd buy that, but honestly... is there any reason to fly anything else then ? 
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:39:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Amandin Adouin
And the mael's shield bonus is completely unnecessary in fleet battles. Wow we're screwed.
Switch it to 5% caldari structure per level. Or maybe give it two 2.5% bonuses to ROF.
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Kuzya Morozov
Gallente
L8L8L8
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: P'uck
Originally by: AstroPhobic
BTW, the raven outdoes the phoon... would you like me to pull up setups and numbers again? Unless you're using it for a RR gang, and even then you only fit missiles.
Why shouldn't it, it costs about 20 to 30 mil more?
The phoon as it is, RIGHT now, on tranq, with all it's weirnesses and screwed up stats...
it's perfect. It's a work of art.
DON'T touch my phoon.
It costs that way because no one in this game flies a freakin phoon, while 90% of EVE flies ravens.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
The phoon should have +1 turret and launcher slots. And the RoF bonus should be 6%.
Nobody would ever, ever use more than 3 turrets then. I say make it 6 launchers, 2 guns, and give a drone bonus.
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:49:00 -
[19]
Edited by: P''uck on 30/07/2008 00:51:08
Originally by: Kuzya Morozov
It costs that way because no one in this game flies a freakin phoon, while 90% of EVE flies ravens.
Compare the mineral cost.
edit: also wtf astro? 6 launchers with rof bonus AND a drone bonus for a ship with 175m3 dronebay and bandwidth for a full flight of heavies?
Doesn't that sound a tad overpowered?
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dichroic
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:51:00 -
[20]
They should drop both the rof bonus' on the phoon and give it tractor beam and salvage bonus' because lets face it, then it would be more usfull.
The temp needs a 7th turret slot
The mael and var are like the same ship with differnt skins (lol @ u if you bought the 650m one)
The vaga is soon to be usless
The raiper is soon to be usless
The huggin is soon to be usless
The hyeena is soon too be usless
The muninn has allways been usless
Saber is prolly the best dictor tho, you should probably nerf it
TL;DR lol minmatar
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Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments
EVESpace
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Posted - 2008.07.30 00:57:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Spaztick on 30/07/2008 00:58:43
Edited by: Spaztick on 30/07/2008 00:57:45
We still have Rifters though.
And Cheetahs.
And I'm not gonna mention the Sleipnir because they might nerf it, so shhh.
But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post. |
AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.30 01:04:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Spaztick
Edited by: Spaztick on 30/07/2008 00:58:43
Edited by: Spaztick on 30/07/2008 00:57:45
We still have Rifters though.
And Cheetahs.
And I'm not gonna mention the Sleipnir because they might nerf it, so shhh.
Bye bye nanosleipnir, you were actually useful.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.30 01:25:00 -
[23]
The Typhoon now aligns as a ton of bricks, a real shame.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.07.30 01:28:00 -
[24]
Originally by: P'uck
Originally by: AstroPhobic
BTW, the raven outdoes the phoon... would you like me to pull up setups and numbers again? Unless you're using it for a RR gang, and even then you only fit missiles.
Why shouldn't it, it costs about 20 to 30 mil more?
The phoon as it is, RIGHT now, on tranq, with all it's weirnesses and screwed up stats...
it's perfect. It's a work of art.
DON'T touch my phoon.
I respectfully disagree. INVERT THE DAMM SHIELD/ARMOR HP RATIO!
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If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.30 01:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
INVERT THE DAMM SHIELD/ARMOR HP RATIO!
This.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Tanith YarnDemon
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Posted - 2008.07.30 02:56:00 -
[26]
Ohh.... Let me try!
The domi only gets one bonus, and not even that.
It gets one damage bonus to its drone weapon system, and one to its hybrid weapon system == One bonus!
However, it's hybrid weapon bonus is really just half a bonus(10% is the main bonus value, hybrids get 5% per level) = 0.75 bonus total!!
Now, I suggest we give it a repair bonus for it's second bonus and give it a 10% hybrid bonus - as it should be.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.30 02:58:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon
Ohh.... Let me try!
The domi only gets one bonus, and not even that.
It gets one damage bonus to its drone weapon system, and one to its hybrid weapon system == One bonus!
Failure. Drone bonus is 10%, and it's clearly the main damage source.
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.07.30 03:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: dichroic
Edited by: dichroic on 30/07/2008 01:12:55
They should drop both the rof bonus' on the phoon and give it tractor beam and salvage bonus' because lets face it, then it would be more usfull.
The temp needs a 7th turret slot
The mael and var are like the same ship with differnt skins (lol @ u if you bought the 650m one)
The vaga is soon to be usless
The raiper is soon to be usless
The huggin is soon to be usless
The hyeena is soon to be usless
The Claymore is soon to be usless
The muninn has allways been usless
Saber is prolly the best dictor tho, you should probably nerf it
TL;DR lol minmatar
Vega - still the fastest, infact since everything is getting slower, you will actually hit something.
Rapier - Webs are still powerful, its effects may be diminished, but the tactical advantage of webs has not been diminished - especially 40km webs.
Huggin - Look at Rapier
Hyena - Hated it, but its still a great gate camper.
Caymore - Skirmish is even more important now. . .so this is more important to fly.
Munin - its sucked since the scripts were introduced. . .nano did not change this. If anything, since things are slower, it may actually be a little better. . .but not much.
basically, you either 1) don't know how to fly these ships or 2) you simply don't understand the nurf (rebalancing really) or 3) you are just a troll. . .take your pick.
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GO BLUE!! |
Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.07.30 04:17:00 -
[29]
I'm a caldari pilot - and other than dabbling in Amarr it's really all I fly. The upcomming nerf does nothing but help me but I can honestly say that it appears the minmitar players are indeed getting boned here.
Let's be brutally honest here - what is it that makes minmatar ships so good right NOW? The simple fact that their inadequacies are overshadowed by their ability to go fast - to utterly dictate the pace and range of a battle while mitigating substantial amounts of damage with speed alone and having the ability to bug out when things go terribly wrong.
Here is a quick look at the racial "traits" of Minmitar ships as a general set of principles:
They are generally the fastest ships out there, but when the difference in speed is measured in a few hundred meters/s versus a few THOUSAND the inherit usefulness of this trait is questionable. Other factors could make this exceedingly useful still but read on.
Reliance on projectile (jet propelled or otehrwise) is often touted as a virtue. Afterall, the lack of cap use of such systems was at one point a boon. But in today's era, where buffer tanks have proven their viability and superiority over active tanks in almost all situations one is left to wonder what exactly does your capless weapon really mean? A buffer tanked abaddon dumps GOBS of cap firing it's guns - and indeed the closest thing to a ammunition Amarr ships worry about is cap booster charges - but in an age where that abaddon is likely to not even have a repper fitted at ALL, the simple fact that you can dump your cap on guns alone in a few minutes is of little consequence when the battle will be over by then one way or another (fleet battles excluded of course) long before you cap out. Missiles are hamstrung by the simple fact that the projectiles take ages to reach a target - we've all heard how Burn Eden can make excellent use of this feature but for the most part the high alpha/dps of missiles is seen as being of little conseuqence when a target will likely warp or die before your missiles arrive. Projectiles are constantly being utalized in falloff, meaning by default they are simply not delivering their stated DPS on target - indeed it's usually substantailly lower in reality.
Versatility is a boon only when your options are useful. Before the various nerfs made all those fancy high slot and mid slot treachery items less useful the ability to fit your ship in a variety of ways that all perform badly is not a boon. Today, being able to specialize in a single job is the most important factor a ship can have because multitasking has been proven to be inferior in a general sense.
Split weapon systems - yes it's a part of that versatility but it means you often have to train for two (or 3) different weapon systems to utalize a ship effectively. More importantly it means that your overall ability to generate DPS is going to compromise your tank - afterall the if a weapon mod only affects half your weapons it stands to reason that you need twice as many to achieve the same overall DPS increase as other, single weapon system ships. Worse, the versitility offered here directly harms your ability to operate in a very specific environment. Yes a sniper battleship is up a creek in a close ranged fight but the best minmitar can generally offer is "almost adequate" at any given task.
Projectile weapon damage - while the high alpha strike and variable damage is often cited as a virtue, in reality the fact that you utalize most of these systems in deep falloff means that both your Alhpa and DPS are compromised. The variable damage is quite often little more than a lie you tell yourself. RF EMP, Hail, Barrage and Quake are the ONLY rounds I have ever seen being used in PVP because they are the only ones that fill the damage/range niches other ships excell in.
Speed masked the issue in the smaller ships - without it these flaws go from annoying to downright lethal to any minnie pilot.
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.07.30 04:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
INVERT THE DAMM SHIELD/ARMOR HP RATIO!
This.
Y'all just fail to grasp it's inner beauty and the deeper, almost mystical harmony of that wonderful ship. Don't worry about a few -as you call it- misplaced hitpoints, it's not gimped, it has character.
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