EVE Search - Why does phoon only have 1 ship bonus?

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Why does phoon only have 1 ship bonus?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.01 00:01:00 - [61] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 01/08/2008 00:01:47 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 01/08/2008 00:01:32 Originally by: Amandin Adouin Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 31/07/2008 23:55:05 I really don't get why all these people are so vehemently arguing against any fixes to the Typhoon or other Matari ships... I mean the issue with the split weapon system bonus on the Typhoon, not to mention the evenly split weapon hardpoints, is so absurdly obvious that it really makes me question why anyone would even bother arguing that it's fine. I mean I know that this isn't an ideal world and not everyone wants an even playing field, but honestly arguing against some of these issues just makes you look ignorant. Obviously it is not desireable to let the slave race get their hands on too good ships. We need our slave gals dancing and entertaining our amarrian b00bbars without matari fleet coming knocking on the door every now and then. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Gabrielle Atrocity	Posted - 2008.08.01 00:04:00 - [62] Originally by: Ath Amon Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: Derek Sigres Wall of Text Either someone has been reading our minmatar/projectile brainstorming threads or somebody actually understand the predicament... or both. Bring tears to my eyes... The only reason the phoon is even remotely decent right now is because the split weapon systems and heavy drone bay allow it to forget about it's weapons and use it as a utility ship. If you fit 4 ac and 4 cruise or torps you are absolutely using this ship wrong (unless going for full gankage and can only fly minmatar, in which case this is probably your only choice.) This ship's advantage over the domi is powergrid, so ***** it. 3 Neuts plz. 3 Neuts is enough to make a nano pilot get up and walk away from the computer and a battleship pilot contemplate using his insurance payout to put stabs on his next ship. All the while 4 cruise and 5x heavy drones get your dps to over 500. With a cap injector driving your 7 slot dual rep tank you even tank better than the tempest does and put out comparable dps. Pre nerf, the weight of your ship actually allowed you to kite enemy targets decently, because you could use missiles do do your damage from range (lol no f41loff) So, phoon wins because it has shitty bonuses that make it so that you don't feel bad trying wacky setups that completely ignore bonuses. At any given time, I consider this ship to have 4 ultility high slots. so to sum it up the phoon is so good because split weapon system is so bad that anyway you dont want to gank it so you can go with utility whitout any remorse? remember that no one force you to fit 6-8 weapons on your ship, you can do the same with all other BS just fit 4 primary weapons and 4 utility mods Sorry for not elaborating, the phoon has grid for 4 ac and 4 torps, so when you are fitting cruise and NOT acs you have shittones of powergrid left for stuff like neuts. Thats what I was getting at but did not explicitly say.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.01 00:06:00 - [63] Edited by: Trojanman190 on 01/08/2008 00:08:03 Hurray for alts. Also, phoon has the dronebay action goin on. The other minmatar ships really don't.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2008.08.01 00:16:00 - [64] that is valid for most of other ships too, you can fit 4 cruisers on your raven and be happy or 4 electron on your blasterboat and so on... you can do that for most ships if you dont chose your biggest dmg weapon and fit just 4 of them. also in this role the domi is not bad at all as a good part of its dmg comes from drones (that doesnt use slots) and it have 1 mid more than phoon the phoon in general is a ship not very generous about cpu/pg, is not a mistery that you cant really dualrep it (thing that you can do with a lot of bs) so i dont see any advantage and about the drone... most bs (cept minnie) are able to field a full squad of heavy drones so again i dont see this huge advantage over other ship... ok is better than the pest but we all alredy know that it suck more than the phoon Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
Amandin Adouin	Posted - 2008.08.01 00:24:00 - [65] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 01/08/2008 00:01:47 Obviously it is not desireable to let the slave race get their hands on too good ships. We need our slave gals dancing and entertaining our amarrian b00bbars without matari fleet coming knocking on the door every now and then. Heh, at least when we're dancing for you we're not in your dirty disease ridden beds I think... that when the Minmatar win the war, I'll take you as my personal slave girl .
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.01 00:28:00 - [66] Originally by: Ath Amon that is valid for most of other ships too, you can fit 4 cruisers on your raven and be happy or 4 electron on your blasterboat and so on... you can do that for most ships if you dont chose your biggest dmg weapon and fit just 4 of them. also in this role the domi is not bad at all as a good part of its dmg comes from drones (that doesnt use slots) and it have 1 mid more than phoon the phoon in general is a ship not very generous about cpu/pg, is not a mistery that you cant really dualrep it (thing that you can do with a lot of bs) so i dont see any advantage and about the drone... most bs (cept minnie) are able to field a full squad of heavy drones so again i dont see this huge advantage over other ship... ok is better than the pest but we all alredy know that it suck more than the phoon But the phoon is a ship with split weapon systems. So if you fill all the highs with weapons a single damage mod in the low will only modify 4 of them at a time. So it makes no sense to lose half your turrets that would have been better used for guns because the damage mods would be more effective. The phoon is the best ship to leave a set of weapons off of because you cant effectivly fit a damage mod anywys. Do you see what I mean now? Dropping 4 guns on the maelstrom is goofy because you could get a single damage modifier to be used x8 on the guns as opposed to x4. On the typhoon, the most a single damage mod will ever get is x4. So it is perfect for that type of thing. Thats what im saying.
BABARR PARABELUM-Project	Posted - 2008.08.01 00:32:00 - [67] Quote: I think... that when the Minmatar win the war, I'll take you as my personal slave Can i aplly? ... "Si vis pacem, parabellum"
Ath Amon	Posted - 2008.08.01 00:38:00 - [68] Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: Ath Amon that is valid for most of other ships too, you can fit 4 cruisers on your raven and be happy or 4 electron on your blasterboat and so on... you can do that for most ships if you dont chose your biggest dmg weapon and fit just 4 of them. also in this role the domi is not bad at all as a good part of its dmg comes from drones (that doesnt use slots) and it have 1 mid more than phoon the phoon in general is a ship not very generous about cpu/pg, is not a mistery that you cant really dualrep it (thing that you can do with a lot of bs) so i dont see any advantage and about the drone... most bs (cept minnie) are able to field a full squad of heavy drones so again i dont see this huge advantage over other ship... ok is better than the pest but we all alredy know that it suck more than the phoon But the phoon is a ship with split weapon systems. So if you fill all the highs with weapons a single damage mod in the low will only modify 4 of them at a time. So it makes no sense to lose half your turrets that would have been better used for guns because the damage mods would be more effective. The phoon is the best ship to leave a set of weapons off of because you cant effectivly fit a damage mod anywys. Do you see what I mean now? Dropping 4 guns on the maelstrom is goofy because you could get a single damage modifier to be used x8 on the guns as opposed to x4. On the typhoon, the most a single damage mod will ever get is x4. So it is perfect for that type of thing. Thats what im saying. as i said in the other post you are saying that phoon is good because the split weapon system is crap... i agree with you that almost no one will sacrifice 2 or 4 main weapons to fit utility. this is a problem not a pro of the ship, you can do that on any ship but you dont do it as is just better to fit your weapons and do way more dmg ignoring this option (an option you still have) the fact that you are more inclined to do it on the phoon is just the proof of how split weapon system is the "crap weapon system" Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.01 00:52:00 - [69] Originally by: BABARR Two or three words : phoon can tackle and MWD away So can the raven. Quote: and can have a extra mid slot Which if using torps is a painter, which my raven setup has. The raven can fit 4 BCUs without a second thought. Quote: he can have 5xECM drone whith his 5xHeavy. And the raven can have more range, no falloff to worry about, more damage, fully selectable damage types, and less damageable DPS. Quote: I usually don't die against raven. I kill him or run away. That's cute. Cown can **** people in a tempest too, doesn't mean the tempest is wtfbbq. The only thing (ONLY) a phoon has over raven is RR-gang ability. Which is silly at the least, because you either have shit range or shit damage.
BABARR PARABELUM-Project	Posted - 2008.08.01 01:38:00 - [70] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: BABARR Two or three words : phoon can tackle and MWD away So can the raven. Quote: and can have a extra mid slot Which if using torps is a painter, which my raven setup has. The raven can fit 4 BCUs without a second thought. Quote: he can have 5xECM drone whith his 5xHeavy. And the raven can have more range, no falloff to worry about, more damage, fully selectable damage types, and less damageable DPS. Quote: I usually don't die against raven. I kill him or run away. That's cute. Cown can ** people in a tempest too, doesn't mean the tempest is wtfbbq. The only thing (ONLY) a phoon has over raven is RR-gang ability. Which is silly at the least, because you either have shit range or shit damage. A phoon usually EAT a raven who is fitted whith a MWD and tackle. You can choose the dammage whith a phoon too. You have Heavy drone if never a HAC come close, or if you are jammed. And finally, a phoon cost less than a raven :). Yes for pure damage the raven is better, but the phoon is not so bad. ... "Si vis pacem, parabellum"**
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.01 01:49:00 - [71] Edited by: AstroPhobic on 01/08/2008 01:49:33 Originally by: BABARR A phoon usually EAT a raven who is fitted whith a MWD and tackle. You don't seem to be understanding here. This isn't true. Quote: You can choose the dammage whith a phoon too. Not completely, if you want to do any damage at range you're using barrage. Plus you're limited to 18km with max skills on torps, which is the majority of your DPS Quote: You have Heavy drone if never a HAC come close, or if you are jammed. That's nice. They can also die pretty easily and remove a good portion of your DPS. Raven doesn't have this issue. Quote: And finally, a phoon cost less than a raven :) What, 5mil less after insurance? Provided you're rigging both ships (you should be), the price difference between the ships is miniscule at best. Quote: Yes for pure damage the raven is better, but the phoon is not so bad. For pure damage... and range, and non-destroyable DPS. The phoon isn't bad, simply outclassed. PS. You're not going to win this fight
BABARR PARABELUM-Project	Posted - 2008.08.01 01:56:00 - [72] Edited by: BABARR on 01/08/2008 02:03:16 Edited by: BABARR on 01/08/2008 02:02:44 Edited by: BABARR on 01/08/2008 01:59:43 Quote: What, 5mil less after insurance? Uh, maybe right, long time i don't insure my ship Quote: That's nice. They can also die pretty easily and remove a good portion of your DPS. Raven doesn't have this issue. Yes, but.. if you are jammed they still hit, they can go at 60km, you can put sentry drone who are fun, ect. There is the good and the bad (it's eve online) Quote: Not completely, if you want to do any damage at range you're using barrage. Plus you're limited to 18km with max skills on torps, which is the majority of your DPS You have near 15km of range whith T1 ammo. But true, you have a better range whith the raven. ... "Si vis pacem, parabellum"
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.01 02:08:00 - [73] Originally by: BABARR Uh, maybe right, long time i don't insure my ship BS are dirt cheap after insurance. Quote: Yes, but.. if you are jammed they still hit, they can go at 60km, you can put sentry drone who are fun, ect. There is the good and the bad (it's eve online) It's like 300 DPS maximum... if you're jammed, you're jammed. The raven has a little over 3/5ths that damage anyway. You're piddling. Quote: You have near 15km of range whith T1 ammo. But true, you have a better range whith the raven. 20km EFT range, about 18km real range, max skills. Plus your autocannon's optimal is 3km, 6 if barrage. You have better DPS from the raven at 25km than the phoon at 2.
BABARR PARABELUM-Project	Posted - 2008.08.01 02:11:00 - [74] Phoon are armor tanked, more easy to be in a remote armor tank gang than shield transfer :) ... "Si vis pacem, parabellum"
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.01 02:13:00 - [75] Originally by: BABARR Phoon are armor tanked, more easy to be in a remote armor tank gang than shield transfer :) Originally by: AstroPhobic The only thing (ONLY) a phoon has over raven is RR-gang ability. Which is silly at the least, because you either have shit range or shit damage.
BABARR PARABELUM-Project	Posted - 2008.08.01 02:24:00 - [76] Edited by: BABARR on 01/08/2008 02:24:55 Erm and nothing about : The phoon is so ugly he afraids the ennemy! Lot of people think the phoon is easy to kill, so you have more target ! The factory of the phoon don't use slave! A phoon reject less than 250g of CO2 per AU warped! Fly a phoon is beautiful! Phoon one day, phoon everyday! ... "Si vis pacem, parabellum"
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.01 02:39:00 - [77] Originally by: BABARR Edited by: BABARR on 01/08/2008 02:24:55 Erm and nothing about : The phoon is so ugly he afraids the ennemy! Lot of people think the phoon is easy to kill, so you have more target ! The factory of the phoon don't use slave! A phoon reject less than 250g of CO2 per AU warped! Fly a phoon is beautiful! Phoon one day, phoon everyday! By these standards, the naglfar is uber.
Blastil	Posted - 2008.08.01 02:39:00 - [78] Every ship fills a role. Minmatar ships are designed to fill the 'I don't know what in the world I'm supposed to do with this, so lets leave it open to interpretation' role. Galent fill Close range DPS, Caldari fill EWAR and long range DPS, while Ammar fill the tanking role (although nothing beats a galent structure tank, NOTHING I SAY!) Comparing a raven to a phoon is like comparing an apple to an orange, or a woman to a man. The raven is not half as delicious, and just as *****y as a woman. Oh, and it gives out great DPS. THATS IT.
Spaztick Canadian Imperial Armaments EVESpace	Posted - 2008.08.01 03:51:00 - [79] Maybe we should just make the phoon vertical, that way everyone will stop complaining and CCP can call it a day. But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.08.01 12:14:00 - [80] Originally by: Spaztick Maybe we should just make the phoon vertical, that way everyone will stop complaining and CCP can call it a day. Haha, I would totally fly the phoon no matter how bad it is nerfed if it becomes vertical
Happster Polaris Project	Posted - 2008.08.01 14:04:00 - [81] Edited by: Happster on 01/08/2008 14:05:48 Originally by: BABARR A phoon usually EAT a raven who is fitted whith a MWD and tackle. But ofcourse. Ratting ships or mission ships doesnt usally fit a scram. Go toe to toe vs a pvp fitted raven and your dps phoon will never stand a chance. Only phoon fitting that will have a chance against a pvp fitted raven is a neut raven. Even then some well fitted pvp ravens will break you. Edit: I got LG slave set, and my phoon is plated. This usally gives me time to kill the PVP raven before it kills me. Its kind of close race. But if the PVP raven has recistance riggs, your gonna loose.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.08.01 14:21:00 - [82] Originally by: AstroPhobic Also, make it more agile than a freakin' Hyperion. FFS. New changes already do this. ALso, its a split weapon system taht can also deploy full drones. The ship is fine and pretty badass with full t2 (GL fitting it, but whatever) ----------------- Friends Forever
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.01 14:21:00 - [83] Originally by: Happster Edited by: Happster on 01/08/2008 14:06:38 Originally by: BABARR A phoon usually EAT a raven who is fitted whith a MWD and tackle. But ofcourse. Ratting ships or mission ships doesnt usally fit a scram. Go toe to toe vs a pvp fitted raven and your dps phoon will never stand a chance. Only phoon fitting that will have a chance against a pvp fitted raven is a neut raven. Even then some well fitted pvp ravens will break you. Edit: I got LG slave set, and my phoon is plated. This usally gives me time to kill the PVP raven before it kills me. Its kind of close race. But if the PVP raven has recistance riggs and faction modules, your gonna loose. Resistance rigs on a raven are a wise investment. Faction mods on a PVP raven? I wouldn't do it. Basically when it comes to a shield tanked PVP Boat I always rig them, if nothing else with resist rigs. At 3 million or so a piece the boost to my EHP is always welcome (especially considering I give up quite a lot of EHP to fit tackle gear of any sort). If I'm feeling wealthy or silly I'll use extender rigs - but at 13 - 20 million each (depending on where I am naturally - 13 million in Caldari space thanks to all those guristas mission farmers) which generally grant me a sturdier buffer. In my mind there really isn't a faction mod worth using on a PVP ship for Caldari. Invulnerability fields are fantastically expensive (over 100k LP if you farm them yourself), BCS's are fantastically expensive, faction launchers are both expensive and remove my options for fitting T2 ammo (which is really only a concern for POS sieges or Assault Launchers/Standard Launchers)
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.08.01 14:28:00 - [84] Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 01/08/2008 14:30:06 Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 01/08/2008 14:28:32 With full T2 (fits with an RCUI) you get over 1000 damage with good mobility (with mwd) and a pretty mean tank. Idk, for the cost of the ship, that pretty cool. Neat to be hitting with three different weapon system too: they TD you, missles drones, scramble you, drones can still kill. Plus, you're zipping around too. ----------------- Friends Forever
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.01 14:32:00 - [85] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 01/08/2008 14:30:06 Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 01/08/2008 14:28:32 With full T2 (fits with an RCUI) you get over 1000 damage with good mobility (with mwd) and a pretty mean tank. Idk, for the cost of the ship, that pretty cool. Neat to be hitting with three different weapon system too: they TD you, missles drones, scramble you, drones can still kill. Plus, you're zipping around too. Not to be mean anything, but did you read the rest of the thread where I proved beyond a doubt that the raven is better suited for the job? You know, except RR gangs, but the phoon isn't a great choice for them either.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.01 14:47:00 - [86] Edited by: Trojanman190 on 01/08/2008 14:47:50 Originally by: Ath Amon Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: Ath Amon that is valid for most of other ships too, you can fit 4 cruisers on your raven and be happy or 4 electron on your blasterboat and so on... you can do that for most ships if you dont chose your biggest dmg weapon and fit just 4 of them. also in this role the domi is not bad at all as a good part of its dmg comes from drones (that doesnt use slots) and it have 1 mid more than phoon the phoon in general is a ship not very generous about cpu/pg, is not a mistery that you cant really dualrep it (thing that you can do with a lot of bs) so i dont see any advantage and about the drone... most bs (cept minnie) are able to field a full squad of heavy drones so again i dont see this huge advantage over other ship... ok is better than the pest but we all alredy know that it suck more than the phoon But the phoon is a ship with split weapon systems. So if you fill all the highs with weapons a single damage mod in the low will only modify 4 of them at a time. So it makes no sense to lose half your turrets that would have been better used for guns because the damage mods would be more effective. The phoon is the best ship to leave a set of weapons off of because you cant effectivly fit a damage mod anywys. Do you see what I mean now? Dropping 4 guns on the maelstrom is goofy because you could get a single damage modifier to be used x8 on the guns as opposed to x4. On the typhoon, the most a single damage mod will ever get is x4. So it is perfect for that type of thing. Thats what im saying. as i said in the other post you are saying that phoon is good because the split weapon system is crap... i agree with you that almost no one will sacrifice 2 or 4 main weapons to fit utility. this is a problem not a pro of the ship, you can do that on any ship but you dont do it as is just better to fit your weapons and do way more dmg ignoring this option (an option you still have) the fact that you are more inclined to do it on the phoon is just the proof of how split weapon system is the "crap weapon system" And I agree with that 110%. Maybe even 150%. Could be closer to 200%. Maybe higher. Exactly what I am getting at. I'm not saying the phoon is good because the split weapon system. I'm saying that because it has a split weapon system and one of those weapon systems is crappy, the ship can actually be made better by ignoring the weaker weapon system. Which is crap. When a ship is made significantly better by ignoring a bonus and tossing 3 heavy neuts on in their place, something is quite obviously wrong with the ship. It makes no sense for rp either. You know what would be s3x? 5% - 10% per level to neut/nos range per level. That would make this ship redonkulusly cool to fly wihtout being goofy overpowered. And I wouldnt have to deal with those pesky autocannons anymore.
forum mematar	Posted - 2008.08.01 18:14:00 - [87] Edited by: forum mematar on 01/08/2008 18:21:11 Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: DeadRow A bonus for two of its weapons systems = 2 bonus' The phoon is a good ship- just takes time train properly for No other ship has this "wonderful" pair of bonuses. BTW, the raven outdoes the phoon... would you like me to pull up setups and numbers again? Unless you're using it for a RR gang, and even then you only fit missiles. Pull some numbers up your ass and come beat my Phoon in a 1v1 with your Raven. Wont happen... --- http://stige.pingtimeout.net/evevids/
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.01 18:15:00 - [88] Originally by: Dizeezer Velar Originally by: AstroPhobic Also, make it more agile than a freakin' Hyperion. FFS. you say that like its some sort of absolutely astounding unimaginable event. A hyperion needs to be agile, its absolutely essential for it since its a dedicated blaster ship that operates at close ranges..... if a raven was more agile than a typhoon, then i would see need to complain. Okay, so what kind of advantages do YOU think the minmatar has as a race on a whole? Capless weapons? Really? Minmatar are supposed to be light, agile, fast, and versatile. They already killed versatile and fast, do you want to take away light and agile too? Get your head out of your ass and take a look at the races on a whole.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.01 18:16:00 - [89] Originally by: forum mematar Pull some numbers up for arse and come beat my Phoon in a 1v1 with your Raven. Wont happen... Post your phoon setup please.
woozaaa	Posted - 2008.08.01 18:20:00 - [90] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: forum mematar Pull some numbers up for arse and come beat my Phoon in a 1v1 with your Raven. Wont happen... Post your phoon setup please. so you can make a counter fit? dude the man is challenging you and you want to do an eft warrior session?

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.