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Making rockets on par with blasters and autocannons

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Dr Clay	Posted - 2008.08.03 01:16:00 - [1] Edited by: Dr Clay on 03/08/2008 01:16:25 Why? - More variety, one less redundant skill set, fewer people complaining about missiles in PvP How? - More damage - Higher rate of fire Result? - World peace Why not? ............................. ............................. ............................? No big words here.
verde bandit Amarr Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2008.08.03 01:17:00 - [2] Those are called loltorps from some patches ago.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.08.03 06:07:00 - [3] Have you looked at the dps of a rocket kestrel lately? Rockets are fine the way they are. Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are pleased to aim! Or was that the other way around?
Ash Vincetti Decorum Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.03 06:11:00 - [4] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Have you looked at the dps of a rocket kestrel lately? Rockets are fine the way they are. That's more to do with the bonuses on the kestrel than the DPS of rockets in general. I can get more DPS out of my Vengeance if I fit it with 3x small t2 blasters and add a magstab, than if I fit it with 4x t2 rocket launchers, use high damage rockets, and add 2x BCUs (which requires CPU mods). That's just broken. ----- free bree!
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.08.03 06:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Ash Vincetti Originally by: Reem Fairchild Have you looked at the dps of a rocket kestrel lately? Rockets are fine the way they are. That's more to do with the bonuses on the kestrel than the DPS of rockets in general. I can get more DPS out of my Vengeance if I fit it with 3x small t2 blasters and add a magstab, than if I fit it with 4x t2 rocket launchers, use high damage rockets, and add 2x BCUs (which requires CPU mods). That's just broken. of course you get almost 10km optimal on those blasters ... something for something ... no tracking, nice range ... there's something that has to give .... but I agree Vengeance with rockets is a joke ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.08.03 07:19:00 - [6] Originally by: Dr Clay Edited by: Dr Clay on 03/08/2008 01:16:25 Why? - More variety, one less redundant skill set, fewer people complaining about missiles in PvP How? - More damage - Higher rate of fire Result? - World peace Why not? ............................. ............................. ............................? No big words here. Why not: no tracking, no cap use, selectable damage type. They are 'on par'. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Vernana	Posted - 2008.08.03 09:33:00 - [7] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Dr Clay Edited by: Dr Clay on 03/08/2008 01:16:25 Why? - More variety, one less redundant skill set, fewer people complaining about missiles in PvP How? - More damage - Higher rate of fire Result? - World peace Why not? ............................. ............................. ............................? No big words here. Why not: no tracking, no cap use, selectable damage type. They are 'on par'. Ya, i have nothing agaisnt rockets doing blaster damage if blasters also will hit at 15km, uses no cap, and will have no problems tracking interceptor at 500m.
Lt Angus Caldari Lt Angus Corp	Posted - 2008.08.03 09:36:00 - [8] who the hell complains about missiles in pvp and rockets? Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Andreya Direct Intent	Posted - 2008.08.03 10:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Hugh Ruka but I agree Vengeance with rockets is a joke ... i concurr.. and the malediction with a armour resist bonus is a joke as well... ALSO ***** may i add.. t2 HAMS have better explosion velocity that T2 rockets... now seriously.. that actually IS broken _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
Dr Clay	Posted - 2008.08.03 12:34:00 - [10] I really wish I could deal respectable damage with my hawk. :[ Why do CCP ignore these things for so long.
Sirius Problem Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.03 13:17:00 - [11] Edited by: Sirius Problem on 03/08/2008 13:17:37 Originally by: Dr Clay I really wish I could deal respectable damage with my hawk. :[ It seems that some people can. Hawk vs Raven ---- Train more. Whine less.
Dr Clay	Posted - 2008.08.03 13:48:00 - [12] Originally by: Sirius Problem Edited by: Sirius Problem on 03/08/2008 13:17:37 Originally by: Dr Clay I really wish I could deal respectable damage with my hawk. :[ It seems that some people can. Hawk vs Raven Oh please, that must have taken him half an hour or more. That is not respectable DPS. Damage Taken: 42013 'nuff said.
Jim Raynor Caldari Shinra	Posted - 2008.08.03 20:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Sirius Problem Edited by: Sirius Problem on 03/08/2008 13:17:37 Originally by: Dr Clay I really wish I could deal respectable damage with my hawk. :[ It seems that some people can. Hawk vs Raven That's a pretty nice fit that Raven had. Heavy Launchers on a battleship? What a pro. ------ I'll make a sig later.
Elaine Celeste	Posted - 2008.08.03 21:09:00 - [14] Originally by: Hugh Ruka Originally by: Ash Vincetti Originally by: Reem Fairchild Have you looked at the dps of a rocket kestrel lately? Rockets are fine the way they are. That's more to do with the bonuses on the kestrel than the DPS of rockets in general. I can get more DPS out of my Vengeance if I fit it with 3x small t2 blasters and add a magstab, than if I fit it with 4x t2 rocket launchers, use high damage rockets, and add 2x BCUs (which requires CPU mods). That's just broken. of course you get almost 10km optimal on those blasters ... something for something ... no tracking, nice range ... there's something that has to give .... but I agree Vengeance with rockets is a joke ... While rockets may need a boost when it comes to the Vengeance, it's Amarr assault frigates as a whole that need some lovin'. The Vengeance is just lollerific with its stupid shield bonuses, and the Retribution's shield bonuses and 1 mid-slot are even worse. Could learn a thing or two from the Ishkur... of course the only reason it's so good is because of its huge drone bay. CELESTE LOTTERIES
d3vo The Space BorderLine United For 0rder	Posted - 2008.08.04 04:11:00 - [15] Originally by: Elaine Celeste While rockets may need a boost when it comes to the Vengeance, it's Amarr assault frigates as a whole that need some lovin'. The Vengeance is just lollerific with its stupid shield bonuses, and the Retribution's shield bonuses and 1 mid-slot are even worse. Could learn a thing or two from the Ishkur... of course the only reason it's so good is because of its huge drone bay. Shield bonuses??? __________ \(^.^)/
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.08.04 04:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Andreya Originally by: Hugh Ruka but I agree Vengeance with rockets is a joke ... i concurr.. and the malediction with a armour resist bonus is a joke as well... ALSO ***** may i add.. t2 HAMS have better explosion velocity that T2 rockets... now seriously.. that actually IS broken 1) I agree that the Vengeance is crap. It needs to be buffed. 2) Same with the Malediction. It needs to be buffed. 3) Rocket explosion velocity needs to be increased dramatically. I'm always for a buff where something needs it done. Clearly this is the case for the above three points. But rockets themselves don't need any help, other than the explosion velocity issue. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Damned Force Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.08.04 14:00:00 - [17] Yes, Rockets sux atm. Look at the AF's almost all AF's doing 200 or far over 200 dps(some of them almost 300), but the 2 AF's with rockets are sux. The hawk with max skills full gank t2 fit do under 130dps with faction rockets, and the Amarr one is just under 150 too with 3 BCU2....... I know lot of u would say but ranges......but by frigs if u in any case in webrange this range is useless
Elaine Celeste	Posted - 2008.08.04 14:30:00 - [18] Originally by: d3vo Originally by: Elaine Celeste While rockets may need a boost when it comes to the Vengeance, it's Amarr assault frigates as a whole that need some lovin'. The Vengeance is just lollerific with its stupid shield bonuses, and the Retribution's shield bonuses and 1 mid-slot are even worse. Could learn a thing or two from the Ishkur... of course the only reason it's so good is because of its huge drone bay. Shield bonuses??? 15% bonus to Shield and Armor Explosive resistance and 10% bonus to Shield and Armor Kinetic resistance per level. If you wanna give it resist bonuses, go for 5 or 10% per level distributed evenly across all resists, not some weird half-assed shield and armor bonus for 2 resists. CELESTE LOTTERIES
Kepakh	Posted - 2008.08.04 14:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Elaine Celeste Originally by: d3vo Originally by: Elaine Celeste While rockets may need a boost when it comes to the Vengeance, it's Amarr assault frigates as a whole that need some lovin'. The Vengeance is just lollerific with its stupid shield bonuses, and the Retribution's shield bonuses and 1 mid-slot are even worse. Could learn a thing or two from the Ishkur... of course the only reason it's so good is because of its huge drone bay. Shield bonuses??? 15% bonus to Shield and Armor Explosive resistance and 10% bonus to Shield and Armor Kinetic resistance per level. If you wanna give it resist bonuses, go for 5 or 10% per level distributed evenly across all resists, not some weird half-assed shield and armor bonus for 2 resists. There is nothing wierd nor half-assed about the resists. Vengeance is a Khanid ship. Apart from Curse, all Khanid ships have same resists(bonused), Vengeance go only in-line with them. High kin and exp resists are there due their racial enemies: Minmatar and Gallente.
fkingfurious	Posted - 2008.08.04 14:57:00 - [20] Originally by: Elaine Celeste Originally by: d3vo Originally by: Elaine Celeste While rockets may need a boost when it comes to the Vengeance, it's Amarr assault frigates as a whole that need some lovin'. The Vengeance is just lollerific with its stupid shield bonuses, and the Retribution's shield bonuses and 1 mid-slot are even worse. Could learn a thing or two from the Ishkur... of course the only reason it's so good is because of its huge drone bay. Shield bonuses??? 15% bonus to Shield and Armor Explosive resistance and 10% bonus to Shield and Armor Kinetic resistance per level. If you wanna give it resist bonuses, go for 5 or 10% per level distributed evenly across all resists, not some weird half-assed shield and armor bonus for 2 resists. Are you high? Thats standard Amarr Tech2 resists. The difference with AF's is that they waste a ship bonus to get them whereas every other ship with tech2 resists gets them for free. Check all the other AF's if you don't believe me.
Elaine Celeste	Posted - 2008.08.04 15:06:00 - [21] Originally by: fkingfurious Originally by: Elaine Celeste Originally by: d3vo Originally by: Elaine Celeste While rockets may need a boost when it comes to the Vengeance, it's Amarr assault frigates as a whole that need some lovin'. The Vengeance is just lollerific with its stupid shield bonuses, and the Retribution's shield bonuses and 1 mid-slot are even worse. Could learn a thing or two from the Ishkur... of course the only reason it's so good is because of its huge drone bay. Shield bonuses??? 15% bonus to Shield and Armor Explosive resistance and 10% bonus to Shield and Armor Kinetic resistance per level. If you wanna give it resist bonuses, go for 5 or 10% per level distributed evenly across all resists, not some weird half-assed shield and armor bonus for 2 resists. Are you high? Thats standard Amarr Tech2 resists. The difference with AF's is that they waste a ship bonus to get them whereas every other ship with tech2 resists gets them for free. Check all the other AF's if you don't believe me. They're still terrible bonuses, specially when coupled with the 1 mid-slot or the pitiful rocket damage. I know the other ships get them too, but at least a ship like the Ishkur does like 3x more damage, so who cares there. The Amarr ones are terribly designed. With a ship like the Ishkur I couldn't care less what crappy shield bonuses it has when it does 200dps. CELESTE LOTTERIES
fkingfurious	Posted - 2008.08.04 15:12:00 - [22] You're not getting this are you? Those resist bonuses arent negotiable and wont be changed because they are what Amarr Tech2 ships have. And how can you say they are bad? You have noticed that the bonuses apply to BOTH shield and armor for ALL 4 races? And as it stands Amarr have probably the best. They're armor tankers with only 1 resist hole which is thermal at 40%. If you wanna LOL at a resist bonus check out the Wolf. A 4 low slot armor tanker with bonuses to EM and Thermal. Geat for lasers, **** all use for anything else.
Elaine Celeste	Posted - 2008.08.04 15:15:00 - [23] Originally by: fkingfurious You're not getting this are you? Those resist bonuses arent negotiable and wont be changed because they are what Amarr Tech2 ships have. And how can you say they are bad? You have noticed that the bonuses apply to BOTH shield and armor for ALL 4 races? And as it stands Amarr have probably the best. They're armor tankers with only 1 resist hole which is thermal at 40%. If you wanna LOL at a resist bonus check out the Wolf. A 4 low slot armor tanker with bonuses to EM and Thermal. Geat for lasers, ** all use for anything else. There's nothing to get... We both agree that they're awful atm. We both agree they need to be fixed. I'm just not particularly impressed by the shield bonuses, that's all I'm saying. I'd much rather see higher armor only bonuses, or completely different bonuses instead to make them more useful and put them all in line with the Ishkur. CELESTE LOTTERIES**
Kepakh	Posted - 2008.08.04 15:31:00 - [24] Originally by: Elaine Celeste Originally by: fkingfurious You're not getting this are you? Those resist bonuses arent negotiable and wont be changed because they are what Amarr Tech2 ships have. And how can you say they are bad? You have noticed that the bonuses apply to BOTH shield and armor for ALL 4 races? And as it stands Amarr have probably the best. They're armor tankers with only 1 resist hole which is thermal at 40%. If you wanna LOL at a resist bonus check out the Wolf. A 4 low slot armor tanker with bonuses to EM and Thermal. Geat for lasers, **** all use for anything else. There's nothing to get... We both agree that they're awful atm. We both agree they need to be fixed. I'm just not particularly impressed by the shield bonuses, that's all I'm saying. I'd much rather see higher armor only bonuses, or completely different bonuses instead to make them more useful and put them all in line with the Ishkur. Only that needs fixing here is you. Stop trolling. Sure, Vengeance is not a dmg dealer but it is the best tanker of all AF, hence make it the best short range tackler(not forget the + cap recharge bonus just for your tank). Amarr got the best armor resist distribution of all races(yes, Vengeance included). Rockets are extremely efficient in killing drones, use no cap and can get decent range if needed. And Retribution? Oh, boy..that is a flying powerhouse so 1 mid is absolutely justifiable.
Elaine Celeste	Posted - 2008.08.04 15:38:00 - [25] Originally by: Kepakh Originally by: Elaine Celeste Originally by: fkingfurious You're not getting this are you? Those resist bonuses arent negotiable and wont be changed because they are what Amarr Tech2 ships have. And how can you say they are bad? You have noticed that the bonuses apply to BOTH shield and armor for ALL 4 races? And as it stands Amarr have probably the best. They're armor tankers with only 1 resist hole which is thermal at 40%. If you wanna LOL at a resist bonus check out the Wolf. A 4 low slot armor tanker with bonuses to EM and Thermal. Geat for lasers, ** all use for anything else. There's nothing to get... We both agree that they're awful atm. We both agree they need to be fixed. I'm just not particularly impressed by the shield bonuses, that's all I'm saying. I'd much rather see higher armor only bonuses, or completely different bonuses instead to make them more useful and put them all in line with the Ishkur. Only that needs fixing here is you. Stop trolling. Sure, Vengeance is not a dmg dealer but it is the best tanker of all AF, hence make it the best short range tackler(not forget the + cap recharge bonus just for your tank). Amarr got the best armor resist distribution of all races(yes, Vengeance included). Rockets are extremely efficient in killing drones, use no cap and can get decent range if needed. And Retribution? Oh, boy..that is a flying powerhouse so 1 mid is absolutely justifiable. Oh yah, great ships. I guess that's why everybody flies 'em. CELESTE LOTTERIES**
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.04 15:52:00 - [26] I think that rockets need a small buff (and no, rocket kestrels aren't nearly that uber, they do less damage then a Rifter, significantly less then a Incursus, didn't test the Punisher yet), so bonused (25%) rockets dont do worse then unbonused ACs (rockets are harder to fit anyway, and clip sizes are absurdly small). Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Straight Chillen Gallente Solar Wind Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.08.04 16:51:00 - [27] Rockets are fine exactly the way they are, just get your skills up.
Andreya Direct Intent	Posted - 2008.08.04 18:06:00 - [28] Originally by: Kepakh And Retribution? Oh, boy..that is a flying powerhouse so 1 mid is absolutely justifiable. ho-ly-cr*p ..... are you f___ing kidding me... anything you ever say in these forums from this point on loose all credibility. i hope your being sarcastic _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
Xyleya moon7empler Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.08.04 21:57:00 - [29] Originally by: Straight Chillen Rockets are fine exactly the way they are, just get your skills up. I've Rocket Spec LvL 4 and Small AC Spec LvL 4, all other Missile or Gunnery Skills LvL 4 or 5. Vengeance with 3x 200mm AC II (Barrage) + 1x Rocket Launcher II (Phalanx Rage Rocket)= 85DPS / 173 alpha Vengeance with 4x Rocket Launcher II (Phalanx Rage Rocket) = 84 DPS / 196 alpha. Explosion velocity of the Rockets = 1400m/sec and have 1400m/sec velocity... they don't hit Ceptors or AFs that turn on their MWD going 2+km/sec at all. Autocannons will hit them Ceptors or AFs tho, if you follow them and transversal is low. AC's will hit at up to 9km and Rockets have 9.8km flightime (flightime != max range). Both don't use cap to fire and the clipsize of the ACs is twice as big and with less RoF. If you don't see the flaws in this, where I'll do more effective damage with unbonussed AC's then with bonussed rockets, you can't be helped. No BCU's or Gyro's used in the above calculations! Furthermore, AC's are easier to fit aswell (6.8 CPU / 3.7 PG) while Rocket Launchers need double the CPU (12.8 CPU / 3.7 PG). So with the AC-fitting I've 18 CPU more to play with. Rockets should've much more punch, much more explosion velocity and much more velocity aswell to make them viable. .
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.04 22:02:00 - [30] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 04/08/2008 22:02:49 Originally by: Xyleya Rockets should've much more punch Just more punch and more clipsize (say, 50% minimum, damnit) imo. Range is OK for a frigate weapon system and explosion velocity is fine, at least when using faction rockets rather then T2. And, yes, the issue is obvious: having less DPS out of a bonused weapon system then other short-range systems is simply bad. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint

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