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How to Not Act as Chairman of the CSM

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Davlos Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.04 22:25:00 - [1] Log below: http://eve-files.com/dl/169066 Happy reading. --- Originally by: Revan Neferis Scientific category of gravitation fields and velocity is force....
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2008.08.04 22:27:00 - [2] Umm, Jade was like that long before anyone voted him in. And it sure as hell was no damn secret. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.04 22:27:00 - [3] Funny how someone felt it necessary to spread more hate and discontent, don't you think? "The greatest offense is no defense."
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.08.04 22:28:00 - [4] I only read the first part about Verone and Bone. I'm disgusted.
Napro Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.04 22:31:00 - [5] Seems to be representative of Eve as a whole... what's the problem?
Viqtoria Caldari Groping Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.08.04 22:32:00 - [6] i often say log below when sitting on the toilet true story
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.04 22:33:00 - [7] I can't say I'm surprised, I heard most of what was said on the grapevine. As for this thread, I have a feeling it will probably be removed or locked, rather than the issue being addressed as it should be. I had my say in the other thread, my opinion still stands. I think I'll leave it at that. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.04 22:34:00 - [8] Originally by: Napro Seems to be representative of Eve as a whole... what's the problem? Ain't that the truth. Everything I've heard about the CSM's, from the head CSM getting into p*ssing contest with trolls on the forums, to 'other' CSM's talking about each other behind the respective backs ... Seems like we've someone elected CSM's that are EXACTLY like the average playerbase. I think there has to be at least one levelheaded, not epeen hungry person in the group. Probably no more than two, though. There's not that many fair-minded players ;?j "The greatest offense is no defense."
Gone'Postal Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2008.08.04 22:34:00 - [9] And people VOTED for him ? Originally by: Viper Because you're a ****ing megalomanical idiot, with the common sense of an electrocuted hamster LMFAO. -V8I-
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.04 22:41:00 - [10] Originally by: Gone'Postal And people VOTED for him ? More than any other candidate, which is the really delicious part for those of us who like dark humor. Here's the deal: my personal differences with Jade aside, Jade ran a very open campaign where-in he revealed quite freely who he was as a player and what we could expect from him as a candidate. If he's so horrible, it's because people a) didn't vote because lolCSM or b) because people really wanted him in. So there it is. Maybe next round people will take CSM voting a little more seriously.
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.04 22:52:00 - [11] I want an apology Jade, because I'm emo about my heart condition and slitting my wrists craving attention.
Scagga Laebetrovo Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.08.04 22:56:00 - [12] lol Gold. San Matari Official forums
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.04 22:56:00 - [13] I am personally offended and deeply outraged I didn't even get an honorable mention as a troll Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Izhara	Posted - 2008.08.04 22:57:00 - [14] Edited by: Izhara on 04/08/2008 22:57:08 It is funny how losers with overinflated egos show their little megalomaniac faces whenever they have access to some kind of position of notoriety or power. It is sad to see what could be a nice community tainted by a bunch of sad individuals..
Victoria Ehr State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.04 22:59:00 - [15] Wow, Jade is quite the vulgar one. [ 2008.08.03 00:06:14 ] Jade Constantine > but the ****ing mob seems to prefer taking shots at the csm rather than getting on board and bbq'ing the whiners. Um, with a mouth like yours Jade, can you blame them for taking shots at the CSM? Aren't leaders supposed to have tact and respect for constituents? Good thing this is EVE politics and not RL. Hope the CSM is doing something constructive after some of them...debate, like that. -------------------------------------------- The path to power is up!
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Anubis Xian Umm, Jade was like that long before anyone voted him in. And it sure as hell was no damn secret. ^ Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:08:00 - [17] So e-meglomania and vulgarity are disqualifiers for a good CSM candidate. Good lord, will we be able to find enough qualified Eve players to fill the available slots in the next CSM? This is rediculous, folks. Or maybe it's a fascinating sociological experiment...
Synapse Archae Amarr Demonic Retribution Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:11:00 - [18] I voted jade because he's clearly smart. The fact that he has no tact didn't really come into my calculations. I just wanted someone who wasn't an idiot. Verone and Hardin are both incredibly smart as well, no reason they couldn't have taken Jade's job. That said, why ** on the whole CSM just because the leader has no tact? They picked up issues, went to CCP, got answers on a lot of very important things, and did it in an open and honest fashion. That's pretty darn good if you ask me...maybe my standards are just low for humanity (and eve players) in general? Originally by:** CCP Garthagk While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. The Requiem	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:12:00 - [19] Question: is this a confirmed accurate chatlog? warp drive active \| nature vraie
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:14:00 - [20] Originally by: Synapse Archae That said, why **** on the whole CSM just because the leader has no tact? They picked up issues, went to CCP, got answers on a lot of very important things, and did it in an open and honest fashion. That's pretty darn good if you ask me...maybe my standards are just low for humanity (and eve players) in general? I tend to agree. But I think the point is that the CSM(Especially the chairman, since he got the most vote) represents the player base.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:16:00 - [21] Originally by: Winterblink Question: is this a confirmed accurate chatlog? not exactly but its more of the same that we have seen in the rest of the confirmed one, and it's not exactly smearing anyone's good name since we all know this is how these players act the real question is what do I have to do to cause this much drama Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
TamiyaCowboy Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:18:00 - [22] no this is not the way a CSM should act nano moaning, well it was coming , move with teh change or die !! Jade: i can understand your opinions but surely they should be kept out of public view ?, pilots should look up too the CSM your our voice so ya'll say. i dont have a gripe with anyone but surely CSM should act with more respect even if your the big chief or the tea maid.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:18:00 - [23] Originally by: Garreck So e-meglomania and vulgarity are good ways to get elected as a CSM member. Fixed it for you. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
GallenteCitizen20080615 Gallente Federation War News	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:22:00 - [24] what i dont get is if they are the only 2 in a chat that look private with no one else around how did you get the logs ? Quote: down near the station bio mass plant you can buy burgers that are 5% pork and 95% CRAP
Leowen Industrial Giants	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:22:00 - [25] CSM will never work out. Nice idea CCP and points for trying, but shut it down now. All it will do is create work for you and achieve nothing. A truly valuable CSM rep will be balanced in all things, able to see things from all perspectives and angles. How balanced do you think anyone is who dedicates so much of their time to A Computer Game that they can claim to be CSM-worthy? The concept of CSM is an oxymoron. Let it go. Proving this point is the most (only?) valuable contribution Jade has made.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:25:00 - [26] Originally by: Leowen CSM will never work out. Nice idea CCP and points for trying, but shut it down now. All it will do is create work for you and achieve nothing. A truly valuable CSM rep will be balanced in all things, able to see things from all perspectives and angles. How balanced do you think anyone is who dedicates so much of their time to A Computer Game that they can claim to be CSM-worthy? The concept of CSM is an oxymoron. Let it go. Proving this point is the most (only?) valuable contribution Jade has made. I'm not going to either agree or disagree with this. But I will ask you something: What do you think CSM is? Right now, it's most(As I see it) important role is to streamline the feedback to CCP. And that is going quite well(Could be improved in MAN areas, but that is another discussion). Nobody can be truely balanced. But it depends on what you mean by balance. Do you mean somebody who has taken part in all areas of the game or? Because that I think is true for several members of the CSM.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:26:00 - [27] Originally by: TamiyaCowboy Jade: i can understand your opinions but surely they should be kept out of public view ?, pilots should look up too the CSM your our voice so ya'll say. Hey don't blame me if somebody posts chatlogs from in-game channels onto the open forums. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I sometimes swear a lot on our alliance vent too and I'm not taking any responsibility for unauthorized recordings of that either. Only stuff I'm on record with as chair of the CSM is the meeting text between me saying "meeting go" and "meeting end" and you can read all those chatlogs on jericho public forum at the moment. As for the stuff in this log - I'm regretting absolutely nothing of the opinions I express as a private eve player relaxing with friends and allies. I pay for my subscription, I play the game between bouts of chairing the CSM and speak freely outside of formal duties as chair - so read, enjoy the drama, and get over it really. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Waragha GreenSwarm Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:26:00 - [28] Haha, nice to see the CSM is in good hands (and that Jade is still a <something i can't say on the forums>). Though the average IQ/age of that chatroom generally seemed pretty low, i'm sorry to say :)
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:26:00 - [29] Some of us don't need to improve our MAN areas Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Gasm	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:28:00 - [30] Originally by: Waragha Though the average IQ/age of that chatroom generally seemed pretty low, i'm sorry to say :) any room that Thrawn is in is going to have a very low collective IQ, irregardless of other inhabitants
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:29:00 - [31] Edited by: LaVista Vista on 04/08/2008 23:35:21 Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: TamiyaCowboy Jade: i can understand your opinions but surely they should be kept out of public view ?, pilots should look up too the CSM your our voice so ya'll say. Hey don't blame me if somebody posts chatlogs from in-game channels onto the open forums. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I sometimes swear a lot on our alliance vent too and I'm not taking any responsibility for unauthorized recordings of that either. Only stuff I'm on record with as chair of the CSM is the meeting text between me saying "meeting go" and "meeting end" and you can read all those chatlogs on jericho public forum at the moment. As for the stuff in this log - I'm regretting absolutely nothing of the opinions I express as a private eve player relaxing with friends and allies. I pay for my subscription, I play the game between bouts of chairing the CSM and speak freely outside of formal duties as chair - so read, enjoy the drama, and get over it really. Let me quote the CSM document for you again: Quote: representatives are not only expected to uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, butshouldalsosetabehaviorstandardforeveryoneelsetofollow. EDIT: You may also be interested in re-reading bullet-point 1. and 2. in the terms of service.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Umbra Synergy Final Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:31:00 - [32] oh oh oh here it comes! aldo, I'm withholding pie from Jade until I cause a scene Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:40:00 - [33] Cant be much of a surprise after so many other examples of Jade's "personality". Vote against the nano nerf!
Eternal Error Exitus Acta Probant	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:52:00 - [34] Wow.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:54:00 - [35] Originally by: Esmenet Cant be much of a surprise after so many other examples of Jade's "personality". One of the problems with keeping up momentum with a good smear campaign is ensuring you've got a steady supply of new material. Presents some problems in my case because they probably need to show I'm scammed billions, provoked a war in middle eastern country or have weapons of mass destruction hidden in my shed at this point or it kinda loses any real shock value. For those that don't know the backstory btw. My alliance utterly obliterated Davlos' corp "Gilead's Bullet" and alliance "Kimotoro Directive" back in 2006 during a conflict called the "mito war" and he's been a little bitter ever since. Any long term eve player picks up these bitter stalkers and so the occasional bit of forum drama is very much expected. Must be quite irritating for Davlos to see that his "arch enemy" the anarchist freedom fighter who griefed his little nationalist corp out of the game might get elected as CSM chair for the inaugural session. Eve is full of little ironies. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Quelque Chose New Eden Roller Disco Supply	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:55:00 - [36] This thread is straight out of the Drama Club down at Liza Minelli Jr. High School for the Gender Challenged. As such, I find it to be a refreshing affirmation of my generalized contempt for the bourgeoisie. ___________________________________________
Selim The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:56:00 - [37] I can't believe people are actually offended by that chatlog. The thing is, no matter how much I'll ever disagree with Jade, I still have tons of respect for him for one reason: He never fails to rile up so many people and **** so many people off. He's pretty much the biggest troll ever, intended or not. People hate him with such fervor and for long lengths of time, and he doesn't even need to do anything except make a post or chatlog to make the drama engine roar to life. Can anyone else even claim to approach Jade in terms of how many people have pathological hatreds for them?
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.04 23:56:00 - [38] Originally by: Jade Constantine Must be quite irritating for Davlos to see that his "arch enemy" the anarchist freedom fighter who griefed his little nationalist corp out of the game might get elected as CSM chair for the inaugural session. Eve is full of little ironies. So you're openly admitting to griefing other players as well now? \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Victoria Ehr State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:01:00 - [39] Edited by: Victoria Ehr on 05/08/2008 00:04:31 Originally by: LaVista Vista But I think the point is that the CSM(Especially the chairman, since he got the most vote) represents the player base. That was my point, and others have valid points too, regardless of his vulgarity, if he was trusted enough by "the mob" as he put it, to be voted in then he has some level of trust. The level of dialogue in that link wasn't much worse than sneak peeks of "insert nation" congressional debates. I was just surprised, I had no idea Jade Constantine spoke such Minmatar vulgarity, but if he gets the job done that players voted him in for, more power to him. As a CSM i thought they would set examples for the players but once again i am reminded that the most vulgar of a society, are usually the example. He will get no love from me though, he is the enemy all the same, Gallente loyalist! -------------------------------------------- The path to power is up!
Tatsue Nuko Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:02:00 - [40] Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 05/08/2008 00:04:19 Now now Verone, you know perfectly well the colloquial use of the term "grief" in this game. You also know perfectly well the history that this refers to in this case. You also have enough of a brain to understand that the specific line you quoted was an ironic statement illustrating the perceived position and viewpoint of Davlos as OP for this thread. Wherefore that last post of yours becomes ludicrously silly and completely unworthy of someone like you, who I actually have some respect for. (Which cannot be said for my position on Davlos, but hey...) Please Verone, don't drag yourself down there.
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:03:00 - [41] Like I said in the other thread, I can't speak for Davlos, but the fact you keep bringing up the Mito incident is only proof of your egotistical nature. You have no evidence to suggest that I am upset about the Neocom or anything else, nor Davlos. For shit's sake it has been two years, and I was not remotely affected by your campaign in the area. Quote: [ 2008.08.03 00:57:39 ] Jade Constantine > both cases kyoko got ****y with us and probably claimed heart condition card to excuse being overly dramatic ... [ 2008.08.03 01:10:35 ] Jade Constantine > yeah Kyoko you were a card that was being played Who is playing what cards here? Get the hell over it and do your job the right way.
Jonny Damordred Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:03:00 - [42] Originally by: Verone Originally by: Jade Constantine Must be quite irritating for Davlos to see that his "arch enemy" the anarchist freedom fighter who griefed his little nationalist corp out of the game might get elected as CSM chair for the inaugural session. Eve is full of little ironies. So you're openly admitting to griefing other players as well now? And you admit to not griefing, Verone? That's a pretty slippery slope... Cheers, Jonny D. ------------------------- CEO and Professor of Gunboat Diplomacy
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:04:00 - [43] If i remember right, Jade came in a mere 40 or so votes ahead of Hardin, thats what, 0.02% of the subsciption base? maybe 1% of the "Voting Subscription Base" Thats hardly a clear favourite for the job, the CSM was a farce from the start IMO, but i gave them a fair run. The election process was a load of junk, having multiple people in the same alliance on the board should never have happened, and its funny how the two people with the most votes from an in character perspective are basically worst enemies. I'm all for democracy, but it really needs some working upon to make it work with eve's mechanics, because as jade pointed out, certain personal interests overshadow the possible gain from a CSM-Like-Body. The last i checked you needed 5% of the subscription base to force something to be taken to CCP? someone pointed out thats over 300 pages of thread of people ONLY Agreeing needed. "oh sure, let me go get my magical 5-leaf clover while going in a straight line on a unicycle after a few beers."
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:04:00 - [44] Originally by: Verone Originally by: Jade Constantine Must be quite irritating for Davlos to see that his "arch enemy" the anarchist freedom fighter who griefed his little nationalist corp out of the game might get elected as CSM chair for the inaugural session. Eve is full of little ironies. So you're openly admitting to griefing other players as well now? Aren't you supposed to be a pirate or something? Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Kvirie Caldari Children of the Wind	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:06:00 - [45] Originally by: LaVista Vista Edited by: LaVista Vista on 04/08/2008 23:35:21 Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: TamiyaCowboy Jade: i can understand your opinions but surely they should be kept out of public view ?, pilots should look up too the CSM your our voice so ya'll say. Hey don't blame me if somebody posts chatlogs from in-game channels onto the open forums. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I sometimes swear a lot on our alliance vent too and I'm not taking any responsibility for unauthorized recordings of that either. Only stuff I'm on record with as chair of the CSM is the meeting text between me saying "meeting go" and "meeting end" and you can read all those chatlogs on jericho public forum at the moment. As for the stuff in this log - I'm regretting absolutely nothing of the opinions I express as a private eve player relaxing with friends and allies. I pay for my subscription, I play the game between bouts of chairing the CSM and speak freely outside of formal duties as chair - so read, enjoy the drama, and get over it really. Let me quote the CSM document for you again: Quote: representatives are not only expected to uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, butshouldalsosetabehaviorstandardforeveryoneelsetofollow. EDIT: You may also be interested in re-reading bullet-point 1. and 2. in the terms of service. I was completely amazed Jade was allowed to run given his history, and the fact that there was no way any standard he set for behavior would've been a positive. Not that I care how he acts in an in game channel for a corp made of of people that left SF, but that's just how he always is. Maybe people will realize he's a **** and that his vision is the only vision he will push, or maybe people wont care.
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:10:00 - [46] Originally by: Jade Constantine As for the stuff in this log - I'm regretting absolutely nothing of the opinions I express as a private eve player relaxing with friends and allies. I pay for my subscription, I play the game between bouts of chairing the CSM and speak freely outside of formal duties as chair - so read, enjoy the drama, and get over it really. (bolding mine) TBH, this. While LVV makes a good point, I still think that one should retain the right to express themself freely in what is normally thought of as a private environment. However, I'm sure I will greatly enjoy reading the attached "juicy drama" while I'm supposed to be paying attention in class.
Kvirie Caldari Children of the Wind	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:11:00 - [47] Originally by: Verone Originally by: Jade Constantine Must be quite irritating for Davlos to see that his "arch enemy" the anarchist freedom fighter who griefed his little nationalist corp out of the game might get elected as CSM chair for the inaugural session. Eve is full of little ironies. So you're openly admitting to griefing other players as well now? His group probably needed a soft target after spending months NPCing in 0.0 and building assets. Why not kill some dying RP alliance and then chest-beat about it? This is Jade afterall. Besides, keep in mind Jade because some anarchist freedom fighting post-humanist only after failing epically in the north at 0.0 politics.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:11:00 - [48] Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda Like I said in the other thread, I can't speak for Davlos, but the fact you keep bringing up the Mito incident is only proof of your egotistical nature. You have no evidence to suggest that I am upset about the Neocom or anything else, nor Davlos. For shit's sake it has been two years, and I was not remotely affected by your campaign in the area. Hey Kyoko its not my fault that you guys are all still bitter about it and have congregated in Veto to continue your annoyances and impotent furies about losing wars in the past. Pretty much everyone in the RP community knows that Davlos went seriously off the rails post Mito and you certainly went pretty funny when you felt that SF had stomped on your pre-written storyline of black rabbits vs Kimotoro. What is amusing though is that most of the eve public won't have any idea about the original foundations and root causes of all this feuding but if people people do a little digging the evidence is all there. Basically ANY thread like this one needs to be considered in the context of past feuds. Thats eve - thats the single server environment and thats IC politics. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:16:00 - [49] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Verone Originally by: Jade Constantine Must be quite irritating for Davlos to see that his "arch enemy" the anarchist freedom fighter who griefed his little nationalist corp out of the game might get elected as CSM chair for the inaugural session. Eve is full of little ironies. So you're openly admitting to griefing other players as well now? Aren't you supposed to be a pirate or something? Piracy is a valid profession, it was highlighted as a selling point on the origial release cover of the game in 2003. "Griefing someone out of the game" because you don't like them personally wasn't. Jonny, Tats, I'm not even going to get into an argument with you guys over this. I respect the both of you and you know as well as I do the history between Jade and a large proportion of the RP community purely based on this type of attitude over the years. As well as that, you both wear a seperate corp ticker to him and have done for some time because of misgivings in the past. You both know as well as I do, along with Jade, that I contacted several people (including Jade, and the people on the other side of the fence) and went out of my way to attempt to come to foster some sort of resolution between them for the sake of the RP community. At the time, Jade was civil for once but regardless, since the CSM went live and I've shared my opinions, he's turned the same way with me and started launching personal attacks because he doesn't like what I have to say. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:16:00 - [50] Exactly my point. You think I'm still bitter about a dispute we had. I'm not. To be clear I voted Serenity for CSM with the intention of voting for you next, but I didn't realize we were only voting for one, not a team. That's what I get for not reading closely. But I don't like the attitude you've shown as chairman, and as such my past is being used to brush that off, apparently. And therein lies my problem.
Tatsue Nuko Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:16:00 - [51] Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 05/08/2008 00:25:25 Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda Like I said in the other thread, I can't speak for Davlos, but the fact you keep bringing up the Mito incident is only proof of your egotistical nature. You have no evidence to suggest that I am upset about the Neocom or anything else, nor Davlos. For shit's sake it has been two years, and I was not remotely affected by your campaign in the area. Now, I'm not Jade so I can't say anything about how it works for him, but this is how you normally approach the process of investigating someone's hostility to yourself: 1) You identify them in those cases you don't immediately recall who they are. 2) You thereafter identify where you may have had interactions. 3) You look into what those were, and see if there are specific circumstances that point to a specific one of those as the cause of hostility. In some cases, #3 is pretty easy. Like with Davlos, BEFORE Mitograd there was pretty much zero interaction. AFTER Mitograd he has not overlooked a single opportunity to verbally attack Jade and/or Jade's associates. (To the point of posting some of the most horrible pictures I've ever seen on the net and earning bans for samesaid conduct from a site that pretty much never bans anyone...) I would think (because it follows the pattern) that the analysis of your own hostility's roots to Jade and/or his associates is similar both in method and in result. Of course it may be erroneous and perhaps there are cases where the uncertainty factor should be more clearly expressed. But through all I've heard I would say that I wholeheartedly agree with Jade's analysis regarding Davlos and for that matter yourself when it comes to the area of causes for hostility. Whether you've been playing your heart condition or not is something else entirely though since I've no clue about that, but in both yours and Davlos' case Mitograd is the one spot in time where hostility began - from both of you. So, to summarize: Bringing up Mito isn't egotistical mechanism. It is observations of where several people went haywire in hatemongering (in Davlos case) or what just appears like bitterness in other cases. --- All of that aside, that chatlog is hilariously funny on so many levels I can't even begin to express them properly. --- EDIT: Oh, and re Jade being abrasive sometimes, definitely. And on Jade sometimes being a bit too abrasive at the wrong time? Oh my god yes. BUT is that in any way relevant to what he does in the CSM? Nope. People will say weird shit and do weirder shit still, but we need to remember that in the case of the CSM people were elected based on their campaigns and prior knowledge about their persons - and there really is nothing new about Jade revealed in this, is there? Hell, it would seem that the greater individual part of players that voted in the CSM elections wanted someone that was like Jade, judging by the fact that in spite of a very wordy campaign amidst a crowd of tl;dr and no lack of prior knowledge about his personality, he was the one that came up with the most support.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:16:00 - [52] Edited by: MotherMoon on 05/08/2008 00:20:32 Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: TamiyaCowboy Jade: i can understand your opinions but surely they should be kept out of public view ?, pilots should look up too the CSM your our voice so ya'll say. Hey don't blame me if somebody posts chatlogs from in-game channels onto the open forums. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I sometimes swear a lot on our alliance vent too and I'm not taking any responsibility for unauthorized recordings of that either. Only stuff I'm on record with as chair of the CSM is the meeting text between me saying "meeting go" and "meeting end" and you can read all those chatlogs on jericho public forum at the moment. As for the stuff in this log - I'm regretting absolutely nothing of the opinions I express as a private eve player relaxing with friends and allies. I pay for my subscription, I play the game between bouts of chairing the CSM and speak freely outside of formal duties as chair - so read, enjoy the drama, and get over it really. ah so that's why you didn't want CSM members e-mails and chat logs to be public :P meh I'm on the fence I don't care for you, I don't hate you. I just care about the CSM. It's like any political scene, whatever you say out of context will be taken and torn apart and shown to everyone to sway public opinion. Even if it's not for politic reason everything you say will bite you in the ass. I already can't wait for my election run, people will tear me apart, wooo fun. Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
Viper ShizzIe The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:18:00 - [53] Originally by: Selim Can anyone else even claim to approach Jade in terms of how many people have pathological hatreds for them? Yes. To be honest, my smack was subpar. Kicking everyone out of the channel that agreed with me just made me carry it on to make Jade look even worse then he already did.
Reaver One Sigillum Militum Xpisti	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:21:00 - [54] First let me say that I'm no friend of Jade. The only experience I've had with him is getting dec'd by SF in my noobie militia corp. I got one of them and they failed to scratch me, so guess that'll learn 'em (at least they learned that I keep my safe spots up to date and can run like the wiiiinnnnd). I didn't vote for him either, so I'm not a friend or ally. Having said that, I think Jade's exactly who he appears to be, and he's a straight shooter most of the time. That's more than I can say for most of the folks jumping on him in this thread. Hypocrisy and exploitation FTL, particularly that LaVista Vista twit. That's all I've got to say about that.
Red Thunder Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:21:00 - [55] arghh shock horror!!! people are saying nasty things!!! /emote pretends to care Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:22:00 - [56] Was this a public channel and if so what business is one mans loathing of another to all of us? This isn't the mudslinging US, this is about ideology and game improvement for all. Let Veto and Star Fraction wage war ingame if they wish. I don't care about someones low opinion of someone else. Unless it's deaththreats or conversations about exploits and possibly scams it's really only wasting bandwidth. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:22:00 - [57] Originally by: MotherMoon ah so that's why you didn't want CSM members e-mails and chat logs to be public :P meh I'm on the fence I don't care for you, I don't hate you. I just care about the CSM. Well its a serious point really. Everyone needs privacy to let off steam. I don't trust people who claim never to get angry - its just not a human trait. We have CSM duties (like the formal meetings) there we have to be professional and behave appropriately - we get judged on that kind of on the record chatlog. But its ridiculous to have paparazzi spooks following people into chat channels and producing chatlogs to try and scandalize the public. Complain about if I was saying that stuff in Jita local by all means, but there is a time and a place and everyone needs a place to relax with friends. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Samira Melina	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:24:00 - [58] My Raven was equipped with the following: HIGH 06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I 01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1 01 x SALVAGER I MEDIUM 04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS 01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM 01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER LOW 01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL 01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I 01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I 02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I DRONES 02 x WARRIOR I DRONES 03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES UPGRADES 01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I 01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I
heheheh The Scope	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:27:00 - [59] get get a drink, stretch your legs and take a breath of fresh air you internet drama queens !!
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:28:00 - [60] Originally by: Verone "Griefing someone out of the game" because you don't like them personally wasn't. I said we griefed his "corp" out of the game. Once he quit his corp we left him alone. We have no interest in greifing individual players - we do however have a clear and present in-game motive to attack and destroy nationalist corporations and alliances. Try harder Verone this is getting a bit desperate now. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Callistus Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:31:00 - [61] You're a ****** Davlos. ------------
Tatsue Nuko Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:32:00 - [62] Originally by: Viper **zIe Kicking everyone out of the channel that agreed with me Jonny explained the reasons for those kicks right then and there, you know. You were allowed to stay in "spite" of your conduct since you are actually a regular in the channel. The odd shouting match doesn't remove anything from that. But people that join the channel for the sole purpose of expanding a shouting match, such as those that joined it that have pretty much never ever joined that channel before (Vlad, Kyoko, Nadine etc) and immediately throw themselves into it... I fail to see why we would care to have them in our channel. People that are there ONLY to cause trouble are not welcome. People that are there to be friendly ARE welcome - even if they sometimes (like you) end up in a shouting match.
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:32:00 - [63] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Verone "Griefing someone out of the game" because you don't like them personally wasn't. I said we griefed his "corp" out of the game. Once he quit his corp we left him alone. We have no interest in greifing individual players - we do however have a clear and present in-game motive to attack and destroy nationalist corporations and alliances. Try harder Verone this is getting a bit desperate now. I only quoted what you said mate, griefing people out of the game because you don't like them just isn't cricket. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Tatsue Nuko Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:34:00 - [64] Originally by: Verone I only quoted what you said mate No, you quote-mined him. Quote-mining is below you. Don't do it.
Shoukei Caldari Boobs Ahoy	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:35:00 - [65] I for one think Jade is awesome and perfectly in sync with EVE spirit that we all promote.
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:38:00 - [66] Originally by: Tatsue Nuko Originally by: Verone I only quoted what you said mate No, you quote-mined him. Quote-mining is below you. Don't do it. ... Originally by: Verone Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Verone Originally by: Jade Constantine Must be quite irritating for Davlos to see that his "arch enemy" the anarchist freedom fighter who griefed his little nationalist corp out of the game might get elected as CSM chair for the inaugural session. Eve is full of little ironies. So you're openly admitting to griefing other players as well now? Aren't you supposed to be a pirate or something? Piracy is a valid profession, it was highlighted as a selling point on the origial release cover of the game in 2003. "Griefing someone out of the game" because you don't like them personally wasn't. I quoted him directly, not a word swapped around. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
oilio Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:38:00 - [67] Having read this thread and the associated chatlog, I am very concerned by Jade's behaviour and the potential consequences it might have. If this were a video game we were talking about, then it wouldn't be a big deal at all, but this is... oh...
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:39:00 - [68] Originally by: Verone I only quoted what you said mate, griefing people out of the game because you don't like them just isn't cricket. You deceitfully misquoted and editorialized actually. But hey, its your reputation. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:43:00 - [69] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Verone I only quoted what you said mate, griefing people out of the game because you don't like them just isn't cricket. You deceitfully misquoted and editorialized actually. But hey, its your reputation. I quoted exactly what you posted, which was that you openly said you griefed people (Davlos' corporation) out of the game. I then responded by saying that piracy is an advertised method of gameplay, while griefing people out of the game because you don't like them isn't. Take a trip to your local optician mate. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Nahia Senne Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:44:00 - [70] Keep the drama up guys, you're doing good. This is why do we actually pay for this game.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:47:00 - [71] Originally by: Verone I quoted exactly what you posted, which was that you openly said you griefed people (Davlos' corporation) out of the game. I said we griefed his nationalist corp out of the game. You tried to claim some higher moral ground by claiming we were griefing individuals players out of game. You didn't quote me accurately because you couldn't. So this is what you've come down to now Verone? Trying to wriggle in criticisms that the CSM chair is a dirty griefer lol, you're a laughing stock. But do continue its so desperate its a bit amusing. Keep these threads coming, sooner or later you might find something to stick. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
oilio Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:47:00 - [72] Originally by: Verone ] I only quoted what you said mate, griefing people out of the game because you don't like them just isn't cricket. Anyone who can be "griefed out of the game" probably shouldn't be playing it.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:51:00 - [73] Anyone else think this 'Varone' and 'Jade' are probably the same person? I mean, if it is, they aren't doing a good job at not sounding like the same person. And if it isn't, maybe they're related? "The greatest offense is no defense."
Tatsue Nuko Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:52:00 - [74] Originally by: Verone I quoted him directly, not a word swapped around. Quotemining is not about swapping words around. Quotemining is where you selectively quote in order to infer a meaning into said quote that was not intended, usually through omission but also possible to achieve through promoting interpretations that were not intended by the people who uttered the words. In this specific case, accusing Jade (by support of that quote) of having griefed people out of the game fall quite flat on the fact that the individual in question is actually still in the game. The quotation would more correctly be interpreted as a view on the perception of the other person - in this case Davlos - who has been on a bitter crusade ever since the corporation and alliance he was in at the time were pretty much flattened in that war. A result that his corporation as an organization as well as the alliance did not survive, but the individuals themselves are still around, as is evident, and for all Jade's purported wish to grief Davlos out of the game there hasn't been a single hostile move against him since.
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:54:00 - [75] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Verone I quoted exactly what you posted, which was that you openly said you griefed people (Davlos' corporation) out of the game. I said we griefed his nationalist corp out of the game. You tried to claim some higher moral ground by claiming we were griefing individuals players out of game. You didn't quote me accurately because you couldn't. So this is what you've come down to now Verone? Trying to wriggle in criticisms that the CSM chair is a dirty griefer lol, you're a laughing stock. But do continue its so desperate its a bit amusing. Keep these threads coming, sooner or later you might find something to stick. First off, I didn't start this thread... so that's not my issue, and the person who did isn't in my corporation, so that's also not my issue. I'm not trying to put criticism on you as being a griefer, I'm simply aknowledging the fact that you admitted you "griefed people out of the game", those are your own words. Read the EULA and you'll find that open and deliberate griefing, regardless of scale whether it be one, or many people isn't cricket. As for me being a laughing stock, I'm playing internet spaceships mate... you're the one who's gone a step further, ran for CSM which draws outside attention, and has all this negative attention focused on you. I've got no problem, as a player I'm entitled to my opinion of your CSM leadership if I feel you're doing it wrong, or right. I'll say again, I've tried to help you in the past, unfortunately YOU chose the route of throwing personal insults around. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Kvirie Caldari Children of the Wind	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:58:00 - [76] Originally by: Tatsue Nuko In this specific case, accusing Jade (by support of that quote) of having griefed people out of the game fall quite flat on the fact that the individual in question is actually still in the game. As is Nikolai... right? Well, nik might've been back as Revan, both acted/RPed a lot alike.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:59:00 - [77] Originally by: Verone I'm not trying to put criticism on you as being a griefer, I'm simply aknowledging the fact that you admitted you "griefed people out of the game", those are your own words. Read the EULA and you'll find that open and deliberate griefing, regardless of scale whether it be one, or many people isn't cricket. I suggest you answer Tatsue's post above. You were being deliberately deceitful and you have been caught out. Quote: I'll say again, I've tried to help you in the past, unfortunately YOU chose the route of throwing personal insults around. You have never been in the least bit helpful in anyway to me or my corporation or the resolution of past disputes Verone. About the only thing I've ever seen from you is image post trolling in chatsubo. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:00:00 - [78] Originally by: Waragha Haha, nice to see the CSM is in good hands (and that Jade is still a <something i can't say on the forums>). Though the average IQ/age of that chatroom generally seemed pretty low, i'm sorry to say :) Politics at work I'm afraid Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal You're not afraid of the dark, are you?
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:01:00 - [79] Originally by: Jade Constantine You have never been in the least bit helpful in anyway to me or my corporation or the resolution of past disputes Verone. About the only thing I've ever seen from you is image post trolling in chatsubo. So the fact that I contacted yourself, and archbishop in an attempt to sort out differences between you two has totally slipped your mind then? Fair enough. As for the response to Tatsue's post, it's the same as the response to yours. I quoted you directly, after you openly said you'd griefed people out of the game. It's not my problem if you take what I say out of context, however as leader of the CSM, it is YOUR problem if the playerbase takes YOUR posting out of context. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:07:00 - [80] Edited by: MotherMoon on 05/08/2008 01:08:51 Originally by: Jade Constantine Well its a serious point really. Everyone needs privacy to let off steam. can't disagree with you on that one. we are also players afterall. Quote: But its ridiculous to have paparazzi spooks following people into chat channels and producing chatlogs to try and scandalize the public. well yeah this in my opinion is one of the biggest issues with the CSM. Player should NOT run as an in-game character but as a person. Think about it if you got an alt, in the same way any player that gets a job at CCP gets a new user expCCP fortress they can still go in game and *** and be jerks without anyone knowing they work for CCP. I believe that you should have to have at least 2 year character to run for CSM but players should not have to run as their main but in fact a whole new persona. like CSM hammer or such. This would stop this silly madness. b ut at the same time we'd lose the fact that players can use thier in-game hostory as a running point. so the real question is what do we do now? Originally by:** Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
Mutabae	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:07:00 - [81] Err, how is this news in any way? Do people not swear or act differently in private than they do in public? Try asking the guy behind the counter what he really thinks about the customers buying specialty coffees. Seriously, you people are all kinds of naive.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:08:00 - [82] Originally by: Verone So the fact that I contacted yourself, and archbishop in an attempt to sort out differences between you two has totally slipped your mind then? Fair enough. Your attempted intervention failed utterly as I recall because of your partiality and bias. The problem between myself and Archbishop was resolved ultimately by one to one dialogue without any involvement of yours. But keep patting yourself on the head for non-existent accomplishments if it bolsters your ego Verone. Quote: As for the response to Tatsue's post, it's the same as the response to yours. I quoted you directly, after you openly said you'd griefed people out of the game. It's not my problem if you take what I say out of context, however as leader of the CSM, it is YOUR problem if the playerbase takes YOUR posting out of context. Hitting a corporate/alliance entity so hard in war that all its players leave can be considered "griefing" of course. But thats eve. Thats how wars are won. The argument over this point is that you have attempted to twist my statement about destroying Davlos' old corp into some half-assed accusation about griefing individuals. You refuse to address Tatsue because you cannot address tatue but you are entirely incapable of admitting you are wrong. Hence evasion and bluster is the only option. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:10:00 - [83] Edited by: MotherMoon on 05/08/2008 01:10:15 I'd like to simplfied what I said above. should we be on the CSM as characters or should we be on the CSM as players? Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:10:00 - [84] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Verone So the fact that I contacted yourself, and archbishop in an attempt to sort out differences between you two has totally slipped your mind then? Fair enough. Your attempted intervention failed utterly as I recall because of your partiality and bias. The problem between myself and Archbishop was resolved ultimately by one to one dialogue without any involvement of yours. But keep patting yourself on the head for non-existent accomplishments if it bolsters your ego Verone. Oh, don't consider this as patting my back, I'm simply stating that I MADE AN EFFORT to help out, even if it was pretty much ignored. I also offered our corporation's Ventrilo server as a neutral ground to talk your issues out with archbishop on several occasions. Quote: Quote: As for the response to Tatsue's post, it's the same as the response to yours. I quoted you directly, after you openly said you'd griefed people out of the game. It's not my problem if you take what I say out of context, however as leader of the CSM, it is YOUR problem if the playerbase takes YOUR posting out of context. Hitting a corporate/alliance entity so hard in war that all its players leave can be considered "griefing" of course. But thats eve. Thats how wars are won. The argument over this point is that you have attempted to twist my statement about destroying Davlos' old corp into some half-assed accusation about griefing individuals. You refuse to address Tatsue because you cannot address tatue but you are entirely incapable of admitting you are wrong. Hence evasion and bluster is the only option. You're just repeating the same argument again. What I quoted were EXACTLY your words. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:15:00 - [85] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 05/08/2008 01:15:31 No Verone you didn't and thats the problem: I wrote: Originally by: Jade Constantine Must be quite irritating for Davlos to see that his "arch enemy" the anarchist freedom fighter who griefed his little nationalist corp out of the game ... You wrote: Originally by: Verone Griefing someone out of the game" because you don't like them personally wasn't." I've underlined the important bits for you. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:21:00 - [86] Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 05/08/2008 01:15:31 No Verone you didn't and thats the problem: I wrote: Originally by: Jade Constantine Must be quite irritating for Davlos to see that his "arch enemy" the anarchist freedom fighter who griefed his little nationalist corp out of the game ... You wrote: Originally by: Verone Griefing someone out of the game" because you don't like them personally wasn't." I've underlined the important bits for you. By "griefing his corporation" out of the game, you griefed someone out of the game. I fail to see what you're hinting at other than trying to put a vague argument across to save face based on preference of grammar use. As for this whole charade, I sincerely hope you're not taking it personally, because I'll say again my comments are regarding your CSM leadership, not you as a player. You were the one who started with the personal attacks, insulting me personally on an out of game level. I'm happy to accept an apology for that, and walk away to be honest. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
niroku Gallente KIA Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:23:00 - [87] Congratulations . I had been wondering for the last week or so after reading some other threads just what the rationale was for all the bad-mouthing of the CSM . I am now enlightened . I had thought, and hoped that the CSM as a whole was doing all it could to uphold the intentions of CCP, the purpose of the organisation to help improve the EvE experience for its player base and to maintain professionalism and direction . I kept saying to myself that there couldn't possibly be a major reason for all this negativity surrounding the CSM considering their role, and I hoped that it was mostly impatience on the behalf of the player base since it is still relatively in its infant stages . Now, because of how members of the CSM have chosen to conduct themselves publicly or otherwise, you have destroyed the credibility of what I believe the CSM was designed to uphold . Therefore, it appears the CSM has already failed before it ever had a chance to make a difference . All you have done is created yet more unnecessary forum drama . I'm pretty sure that when Hilmar was discussing the creation of the CSM, this is not what he had in mind . To those of you who have not been instrumental in this fiasco, it is not my intention to insult, but the rest of you should be ashamed .
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:25:00 - [88] Originally by: Blane Xero The way you wrote the post made it look like you were saying you made several people in the corp quit via means of griefing. Any human with any sense of coherence would read it that way, because thats how you wrote it. Adding "Nationalist" to it to give it a little RP feel doesnt justify the way you worded it. Thank you for your clarification Blane, obviously I'm not blind here if someone else sees what I was talking about. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:27:00 - [89] Originally by: Verone By "griefing his corporation" out of the game, you griefed someone out of the game. I fail to see what you're hinting at other than trying to put a vague argument across to save face based on preference of grammar use. You are being very disingenuous - almost as if you've never seen a corporation utterly destroyed in Eve before and all the players take their characters onto new corps and alliances elsewhere? We cannot actually destroy characters finally. We can destroy corporations (by forcing all their members to leave). One is aimed at destroying a game construct (the corporation). There is absolutely no "face" to save here from my point of view Verone. I'm very proud of what we accomplished to crushing the Caldari Nationalists in the Kimotoro Directive. It was a great achievement for our alliance at that time. Davlos' character was a victim of war and saw his corp burn and fled the warzone to go onto other things - amongst them membership of your corp I note. Still this is eve. Its a dark and dangerous universe and such things happen. As for your motivation for these threads Verone I don't pretend to know your mind. If you want to keep stalking its your choice. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:31:00 - [90] Originally by: Jade Constantine As for your motivation for these threads Verone I don't pretend to know your mind. If you want to keep stalking its your choice. There is no motivation, I simply put forward my view that you were doing a bad job leading the CSM. Rather than being proactive and asking me how I thought you could do better, you chose to personally insult me. As I've said, I'm perfectly happy to accept an apology and move on. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Tatsue Nuko Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:34:00 - [91] Sigh. I'm going to (once again) try to guide everyone through this whole griefing thing. Why it is difficult to understand that sentence I can't for my life understand because it reads extremely simple to me. It illustrated the perceived position of a person regarding the fate of his former corporation. Ponder that line for a moment. Okey. So Jade was trying to explain the hostility against himself that has been ongoing for quite some time from Davlos. It all started at a given point in time - the Mito conflict - and has since then been a constant. Ergo it seems logical to assume that something in said conflict is the basis for his hostility towards Jade and/or Jade's current and past associates (like myself). Not necessarily that it is 100% of the causes, but it is the root cause that started it, evidently because that was where and when it started. There was no interaction at all between them before that. So. To illustrate the cause of the current hostility on part of Davlos versus Jade, the latter then made a post here that illustrated the terror that he (and myself, for that matter) perceive in Davlos as he sees his old nemesis from those wars, whom he has on occassions been stalking and issuing out-of-game threats against, get elected into the CSM. To me it reads quite clearly that the "grief" wording is based on that perception. It is no different to if a pirate would say "and CarebearX then started crying at the horrible griefer that was trying to ruin all his fun", referring to himself. You know, when those people you attack and ransom get royally upset and seem to think you did it to be mean to them - as opposed to you doing it because you're a pirate. Or, in the case of Jade and SF, because you're an anarchist that decided to attack a nationalist organization and just happened to be successful in this. Now WHY is it necessary to post a wall of text to explain something so obvious and simple? I am starting to lean to the conclusion that it is because people see what they want to see and not what is actually there, just like they read what they want to read and not what was actually intended by the author. I am frankly losing hope of changing that, much to my disappointment.
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:37:00 - [92] At every twist and turn, more questions are provoked! "Jade Constantine, are you or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?"
Tatsue Nuko Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:38:00 - [93] Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 05/08/2008 01:43:53 Originally by: Joss Sparq At every twist and turn, more questions are provoked! "Jade Constantine, are you or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?" Do you oppose the Liberation of the Proletariat? EDIT: mp3-file, should be streamable through Firefox if you don't want to download.
Mr Friendly	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:40:00 - [94] Originally by: LaVista Vista Let me quote the CSM document for you again: Quote: representatives are not only expected to uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, butshouldalsosetabehaviorstandardforeveryoneelsetofollow. EDIT: You may also be interested in re-reading bullet-point 1. and 2. in the terms of service. Wait, did you just act like a craven bureaucrat quoting rules and regulations and apply them to private conversations on a private channel? You did, didn't you You're acting like a sad little man. Further, I suspect you wouldn't be quoting rules with questionable application at people if you weren't using it as a shield for some deeper axe to grind. I don't much like Jade, but he's honest about being an ass.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:48:00 - [95] Originally by: Mr Friendly Wait, did you just act like a craven bureaucrat quoting rules and regulations and apply them to private conversations on a private channel? You did, didn't you You're acting like a sad little man. Further, I suspect you wouldn't be quoting rules with questionable application at people if you weren't using it as a shield for some deeper axe to grind. I don't much like Jade, but he's honest about being an ass. If you read it in context with the CSM document, it's a quite valid point. I'm very well aware that you can't actually apply the TOS directly to private convo's. But a CSM member needs a higher social standard. Thus, it could easily be applied for sake of moral.
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:49:00 - [96] Originally by: Tatsue Nuko Do you oppose the Liberation of the Proletariat? I knew that was coming sooner or later.
Tatsue Nuko Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:50:00 - [97] Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda Originally by: Tatsue Nuko Do you oppose the Liberation of the Proletariat? I knew that was coming sooner or later. Hey, it's like, my finest hour, short of this one.
El Yatta Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:52:00 - [98] This is why the concept of "eve personalities" getting elected is a farce. Even the ones that weren't elected are just as capable of being petty and argumentative and crass as the ones that were. Verone and Jade, grow up. I was moderately impressed with the CSM's results from Iceland. I'm certainly not impressed with the people on it, with the exception of Ankesemptakrompertagon (sp?) who has managed to be the only one able to remain civil, and show balls in coming out of their "personal bias" (e.g. complete carebear standing up and saying that the CSM should listen to the PVP public over the nano nerf). The rest are all guilty of either being disingenuous, deceitful, tedious, petty, pointless, at best, while moronic, ignorant and happy to callously manipulate CCP for the lols (yes, Goons and "Ambulation musical instruments2, I'm looking at you), at the worst. _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces
Clinically Gallente ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:53:00 - [99] Edited by: Clinically on 05/08/2008 01:53:50 What an excellent example our CSM representatives are setting to the rest of the playerbase. ________________ Q. How do you clear a system of 400 Northern Monkeys? A. Remind them its not cyno jammed.
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.05 01:53:00 - [100] Originally by: Tatsue Nuko Do you oppose the Liberation of the Proletariat? EDIT: mp3-file, should be streamable through Firefox if you don't want to download. Unfortunately, it would appear I am currently on the wrong side of the Iron Firewall of my campus ... hopefully I will be able to defect some time later today.
Kazuma Saruwatari Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.05 02:02:00 - [101] exactly the sentiments why I wouldnt vote for Jade, or anyone on the current CSM for that matter. -
Mr Friendly	Posted - 2008.08.05 02:04:00 - [102] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Mr Friendly Wait, did you just act like a craven bureaucrat quoting rules and regulations and apply them to private conversations on a private channel? You did, didn't you You're acting like a sad little man. Further, I suspect you wouldn't be quoting rules with questionable application at people if you weren't using it as a shield for some deeper axe to grind. I don't much like Jade, but he's honest about being an ass. If you read it in context with the CSM document, it's a quite valid point. I'm very well aware that you can't actually apply the TOS directly to private convo's. But a CSM member needs a higher social standard. Thus, it could easily be applied for sake of moral. Balls. I'll take a rude SOB who says what he thinks straight off every time over someone who never shows who they are. I don't like Jade, and I didn't vote for him. However, I do see minor issues being inflamed into US style smear campaigns. I have yet to see Jade posting chat logs from other forums in an attempt to discredit them with hand-waving. Instead, he tells his opponents their idiots to their faces. Then proceeds to tell everyone nearby they're idiots as well. He's consistently entertaining and it's a bit like watching an episode of House.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.08.05 02:04:00 - [103] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari exactly the sentiments why I wouldnt vote for Jade, or anyone on the current CSM for that matter. this is why I said what I did and why I'll be running not as mothermoon but an alt for the CSM. Then again I don't have much alliance history anyways but oh damn do I have a posting background. Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.08.05 02:30:00 - [104] Edited by: MotherMoon on 05/08/2008 02:32:47 Originally by: Tortun Nahme In ur head, trollenz ur thotz! Hey if I'm elected for the CSM I will push for making forum troll of the year an EON award. Edit:no joke by the way. Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
Viper ShizzIe The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.08.05 02:32:00 - [105] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Tortun Nahme In ur head, trollenz ur thotz! Hey if I'm elected for the CSM I will push for making forum troll of the year an EON award. **** yeah.
Jimer Lins Gallente Federation Fleet New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.08.05 02:37:00 - [106] Originally by: Jonny Damordred Originally by: Verone Originally by: Jade Constantine Must be quite irritating for Davlos to see that his "arch enemy" the anarchist freedom fighter who griefed his little nationalist corp out of the game might get elected as CSM chair for the inaugural session. Eve is full of little ironies. So you're openly admitting to griefing other players as well now? And you admit to not griefing, Verone? That's a pretty slippery slope... Cheers, Jonny D. If there's anyone in EVE's piracy side who does not and never did grief, it's Verone and Veto. Ransoming and blowing people up's not griefing.
Bacchanalian Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.05 02:41:00 - [107] Originally by: Ruze Seriously, I think that CSM's should follow the same lease as devs and GM's. Great idea. Make CCP's player feedback medium give up their rights to play EVE. Brilliant, someone get this man a helmet to prevent him from hurting himself. ____________________ GM Sunshine > oops Neurotica > Hate to see a GM in your gang say 'oops'
Jimer Lins Gallente Federation Fleet New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.08.05 02:45:00 - [108] Originally by: Yatta I can we have a TL;DR version? Sure:
Jonny Damordred Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.05 02:47:00 - [109] Originally by: Jimer Lins Originally by: Jonny Damordred And you admit to not griefing, Verone? That's a pretty slippery slope... Cheers, Jonny D. If there's anyone in EVE's piracy side who does not and never did grief, it's Verone and Veto. Ransoming and blowing people up's not griefing. Neither are empire wars. Thats the point. ------------------------- CEO and Professor of Gunboat Diplomacy
Jimer Lins Gallente Federation Fleet New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.08.05 02:49:00 - [110] Originally by: Jonny Damordred Neither are empire wars. Thats the point. Well, I agree that empire wars aren't griefing... but I was responding to what you seemed to be implying, which was that Verone was guilty of griefing. If that's not the case or I misunderstood, my apologies.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.08.05 02:52:00 - [111] Originally by: Jimer Lins Well, I agree that empire wars aren't griefing... That is, from my experience and the discussions we had at CSM, not really the case. In some cases, it's definitely true. But in many cases, it's a pay-to-grief mechanic.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.08.05 02:53:00 - [112] Originally by: Bacchanalian Originally by: Ruze Seriously, I think that CSM's should follow the same lease as devs and GM's. Great idea. Make CCP's player feedback medium give up their rights to play EVE. Brilliant, someone get this man a helmet to prevent him from hurting himself. what are you talking about GMs and devs still play the game, they just don't let people know what thier characters names are. what does your e-peen have to do with representing the community? If your elected as a CSM member it's not about your own personal interests, it's about the interests of the people that elected you, as long as they can still play the game without knowing who could be a CSM member just like not knowing who in goonswarm is a dev it will be fair. no one is asking the CSM to stop playing the game. Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
Jimer Lins Gallente Federation Fleet New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.08.05 02:59:00 - [113] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Jimer Lins Well, I agree that empire wars aren't griefing... That is, from my experience and the discussions we had at CSM, not really the case. In some cases, it's definitely true. But in many cases, it's a pay-to-grief mechanic. I agree it's a mechanic that could be abused (and has been, I'm certain). At least with a war, there's some counters, even if pure grief-play is behind the dec. This thread's not the place to derail on such things, though. I'd be interested to hear what ideas people might have for countering such abuse of the game mechanic, if it is indeed a significant problem.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:01:00 - [114] If the CSM was 1/100th as amusing as the House of Commons I'd have no issues with it. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
F90OEX F9X	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:01:00 - [115] LOL ...
Nick Curso Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:11:00 - [116] Originally by: Zeba If the CSM was 1/100th as amusing as the House of Commons I'd have no issues with it. Now that is pro smack talk and trolling
Jonny Damordred Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:17:00 - [117] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Jimer Lins Well, I agree that empire wars aren't griefing... That is, from my experience and the discussions we had at CSM, not really the case. In some cases, it's definitely true. But in many cases, it's a pay-to-grief mechanic. CCP Wrangler: "EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for." Stop whining and grief something, its the EvE Online way. Cheers, Jonny D. ------------------------- CEO and Professor of Gunboat Diplomacy
Bacchanalian Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:21:00 - [118] Edited by: Bacchanalian on 05/08/2008 03:21:41 Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Jimer Lins Well, I agree that empire wars aren't griefing... That is, from my experience and the discussions we had at CSM, not really the case. In some cases, it's definitely true. But in many cases, it's a pay-to-grief mechanic. Wow. I have even less confidence in the CSM as a body to have a bloody clue about EVE. ____________________ GM Sunshine > oops Neurotica > Hate to see a GM in your gang say 'oops'
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:28:00 - [119] Originally by: Bacchanalian Edited by: Bacchanalian on 05/08/2008 03:21:41 Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Jimer Lins Well, I agree that empire wars aren't griefing... That is, from my experience and the discussions we had at CSM, not really the case. In some cases, it's definitely true. But in many cases, it's a pay-to-grief mechanic. Wow. I have even less confidence in the CSM as a body to have a bloody clue about EVE. then VOTE NEXT TIME! the CSM are nothing but players like yourself, and as such it's up to you to pick which ones think the way you do. and such give you a rep at CCP. it's all about getting the wishes of the players to CCP. So if you don't like it vote next time for someone that agrees with you. also don't expect every members of the CSM to agree with your point of view or for the view of one member to represent the views of every other members on the CSM. The whole point is that each member sees a situation differently. So you in fact don't have less confidence in the CSM, you have less confidence in LaVista Vista. Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
Jonny Damordred Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:31:00 - [120] Originally by: MotherMoon then VOTE NEXT TIME! I did, and Jade is living up to my expectations with my approval. Cheers, Jonny D. ------------------------- CEO and Professor of Gunboat Diplomacy
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:32:00 - [121] I will gladly vote for someone who believes that the current war system is being used as a griefing tactic by many in high-sec. "The greatest offense is no defense."
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:34:00 - [122] Originally by: Bacchanalian Wow. I have even less confidence in the CSM as a body to have a bloody clue about EVE. Tell me, how am I wrong?
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:35:00 - [123] Originally by: Jonny Damordred Originally by: MotherMoon then VOTE NEXT TIME! I did, and Jade is living up to my expectations with my approval. Cheers, Jonny D. Originally by: Ruze I will gladly vote for someone who believes that the current war system is being used as a griefing tactic by many in high-sec. in fact one copuld take the two above statement as showing the CSM is working as intended. you both have members in the CSM that agree with you. Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
Jenna Shame	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:36:00 - [124] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Bacchanalian Edited by: Bacchanalian on 05/08/2008 03:21:41 Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Jimer Lins Well, I agree that empire wars aren't griefing... That is, from my experience and the discussions we had at CSM, not really the case. In some cases, it's definitely true. But in many cases, it's a pay-to-grief mechanic. Wow. I have even less confidence in the CSM as a body to have a bloody clue about EVE. then VOTE NEXT TIME! the CSM are nothing but players like yourself, and as such it's up to you to pick which ones think the way you do. and such give you a rep at CCP. it's all about getting the wishes of the players to CCP. So if you don't like it vote next time for someone that agrees with you. also don't expect every members of the CSM to agree with your point of view or for the view of one member to represent the views of every other members on the CSM. The whole point is that each member sees a situation differently. So you in fact don't have less confidence in the CSM, you have less confidence in LaVista Vista. I voted, I abstained. Why? Because I don't know these goobers from the next goober. Its a stupid system put in place by a company who couldn't figure out how to properly cover up a rather minor incident and instead allowed it to be completely blown out of proportion, and then wanted to pretend to be hip and different by implementing a feel good committee called the CSM to look like they were 'serious' about corruption. Give me a break. EvE is a PvP game, even in empire its a pvp game. You ever sell something below the market average to unload it? Well you are against another player there. Even the more carebear miner PvP's in a sense by trying to get to the rocks first. In a game like this where people have their own styles and advantages you don't give power to a bunch of basically randomly elected officials who are either drawn from the biggest alliances or forum whoring. The whole thing reeked of 'lame' from the day CCP announced it.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:40:00 - [125] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Bacchanalian Wow. I have even less confidence in the CSM as a body to have a bloody clue about EVE. Tell me, how am I wrong? lavista your wrong and your right. it all depends on what they see eve has and want it to become. it's way we had elections is why you didn't get 100% of the votes. please don't start an argument that accounts to nothing other than a something like a liberal arguing with a republican over oil prices or taxes. Some of the community agrees with part of the CSM the rest agrees with the rest of the community. Or in fact in eve it can be slipt between many players with many views of the game and it's issues. you should get used to the people your serving thinking your wrong because in fact that is your job to agree with some of the community and disagree with the rest. /or did you honestly post your comment expecting not a single post disagreeing with you? Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:42:00 - [126] Originally by: MotherMoon you should get used to the people your serving thinking your wrong because in fact that is your job to agree with some of the community and disagree with the rest. /or did you honestly post your comment expecting not a single post disagreeing with you? Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm very well aware that we will never all agree. Despite the fact I rarely agree with Verone on CSM matters, I can see his view. But the comment I quoted was a quite direct shot towards CSM based on my thoughts on war mechanics. I understand that it's a matter of perspective. But I'm interested in hearing how he perceives this mechanic.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:43:00 - [127] Quote: Because I don't know these goobers from the next goober. Its a stupid system put in place by a company who couldn't figure out how to properly cover up a rather minor incident and instead allowed it to be completely blown out of proportion, and then wanted to pretend to be hip and different by implementing a feel good committee called the CSM to look like they were 'serious' about corruption. And if another isse came up again the CSM would now be in place to handle it. The CSM was never put in palce to deal with a n issue 2 years old. they promised us, the players there would be a new way to take care of future issues with internal CCP issues. and while it might not seem like it, it's doing it's job. If something comes up the people we elect will go to iceland and *** out CCP and demand the full story. CCP can't deal with 200,000 people, however, dealing with 7 angry players representing the players is much easier to handle... sort of :P Originally by:** Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
Benilopax Gallente Pulsar Combat Supplies Alternative Realities	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:43:00 - [128] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Bacchanalian Wow. I have even less confidence in the CSM as a body to have a bloody clue about EVE. Tell me, how am I wrong? lavista your wrong and your right. it all depends on what they see eve has and want it to become. it's way we had elections is why you didn't get 100% of the votes. please don't start an argument that accounts to nothing other than a something like a liberal arguing with a republican over oil prices or taxes. Some of the community agrees with part of the CSM the rest agrees with the rest of the community. Or in fact in eve it can be slipt between many players with many views of the game and it's issues. you should get used to the people your serving thinking your wrong because in fact that is your job to agree with some of the community and disagree with the rest. /or did you honestly post your comment expecting not a single post disagreeing with you? I think he was saying that it is hard, if not impossible, for someone to argue that war decs can in no way be used for griefing.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:44:00 - [129] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: MotherMoon you should get used to the people your serving thinking your wrong because in fact that is your job to agree with some of the community and disagree with the rest. /or did you honestly post your comment expecting not a single post disagreeing with you? Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm very well aware that we will never all agree. Despite the fact I rarely agree with Verone on CSM matters, I can see his view. But the comment I quoted was a quite direct shot towards CSM based on my thoughts on war mechanics. I understand that it's a matter of perspective. But I'm interested in hearing how he perceives this mechanic. ah you came off as why did he think YOUR wrong, when in fact you wanted to know what his views were, which is what starts these crazy screaming matches. Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:49:00 - [130] Originally by: Jonny Damordred Originally by: MotherMoon then VOTE NEXT TIME! I did, and Jade is living up to my expectations with my approval. Cheers, Jonny D. Thats exactly the reason I didn't vote. Why bother when no matter who you elect they will all just turn into grandstanders on a power trip. Remember guys these are just ordinary people who play a video game targeted at greifers and also are quite vocal on the forums (which should already say scads) who have zero real life experiance in running a proper council. Add free targeted forum sections to stroke the inner e-peen with the official backing of CCP and you will 100% get the current situation every single time a new election comes around. This is all just a funny greifer game to them and all of us really and it will never ever change. Though please astonish me and prove me wrong if you wish. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:50:00 - [131] Originally by: MotherMoon ah you came off as why did he think YOUR wrong, when in fact you wanted to know what his views were, which is what starts these crazy screaming matches. Yeah, it's my bad. I arrived in the United States of America yesterday. So jet-lag is killing me atm
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:54:00 - [132] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Jonny Damordred Originally by: MotherMoon then VOTE NEXT TIME! I did, and Jade is living up to my expectations with my approval. Cheers, Jonny D. Thats exactly the reason I didn't vote. Why bother when no matter who you elect they will all just turn into grandstanders on a power trip. Remember guys these are just ordinary people who play a video game targeted at greifers and also are quite vocal on the forums (which should already say scads) who have zero real life experiance in running a proper council. Add free targeted forum sections to stroke the inner e-peen with the official backing of CCP and you will 100% get the current situation every single time a new election comes around. This is all just a funny greifer game to them and all of us really and it will never ever change. Though please astonish me and prove me wrong if you wish. you better believe I will. but honestly the only powertrips I've seen jade have are unrelated to the CSM and in fact more related to her in game activities. and hasn't jade always powertriped like this? I don't see how getting elected changed anything :P I know what I'm doing when it comes to holding a meeting, and I'm sure other players do to. In fact the current Cm members are learning through trial and error. All you have to do is seperate your job and your gaming. To which end like I said you'll see me running for CSM next election but not as mothermoon yarr but as an uneventful alt that doesn't have any sort of e-peen to powertrip on. Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Ledoux Holdings	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:55:00 - [133] Originally by: Jade Constantine We cannot actually destroy characters finally. We can destroy corporations (by forcing all their members to leave). I would argue that it's not really possible to force people to quit their corporation. Of course, when you put them under enough pressure and beat their to fleets jelly enough times, morale goes to hell, people start bickering and people start choosing to leave. With strong, inspiring and/or intelligent leadership and committed members, the corporation survives and rebuilds. But whatever happens is purely up to the members of the corp, not their enemies. If a corporation or alliance disbands when faced by an all-out attack by a superior enemy, it didn't deserve to survive in the first place. Blaming Star Fraction for the dissolution of the Kimotoro Directive is like blaming Goonswarm/Red Alliance/Tau Ceti Federation (et cetera) for the destruction of Lotka Volterra or RISE. Sure, the Stimulus (get it?) was provided by the aggressor, but the blame can only be laid on those who voluntarily quit or disband their corporation or alliance. But back on topic: Even if the the CSM members were totally impartial, completely reasonable and never said or did anything that offended anyone ... well, there's probably only two or people like that who play Eve in the first place, so there's one roadblock. But even if we just expected people to act like that WHILE a member of the CSM, something tells me that the sort of people who'd still want the job would be exactly the kind of people who should never actually have it. _
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:56:00 - [134] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: MotherMoon ah you came off as why did he think YOUR wrong, when in fact you wanted to know what his views were, which is what starts these crazy screaming matches. Yeah, it's my bad. I arrived in the United States of America yesterday. So jet-lag is killing me atm politics suck huh? :P Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:58:00 - [135] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Jonny Damordred Originally by: MotherMoon then VOTE NEXT TIME! I did, and Jade is living up to my expectations with my approval. Cheers, Jonny D. Thats exactly the reason I didn't vote. Why bother when no matter who you elect they will all just turn into grandstanders on a power trip. Remember guys these are just ordinary people who play a video game targeted at greifers and also are quite vocal on the forums (which should already say scads) who have zero real life experiance in running a proper council. Add free targeted forum sections to stroke the inner e-peen with the official backing of CCP and you will 100% get the current situation every single time a new election comes around. This is all just a funny greifer game to them and all of us really and it will never ever change. Though please astonish me and prove me wrong if you wish. you better believe I will. but honestly the only powertrips I've seen jade have are unrelated to the CSM and in fact more related to her in game activities. and hasn't jade always powertriped like this? I don't see how getting elected changed anything :P Jade is now far more vocal outside of CAOD now, which is reason enough for the CSM to go bye-bye.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.08.05 03:59:00 - [136] Originally by: Blane Xero Jade is now far more vocal outside of CAOD now, which is reason enough for the CSM to go bye-bye. lol how about instead just pass that rle that the players can vote out a CSM member? I see no reason for the whole CSM to go. Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
Jonny Damordred Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.05 04:00:00 - [137] Originally by: MotherMoon lol how about instead just pass that rle that the players can vote out a CSM member? I see no reason for the whole CSM to go. Dumb idea. It would make the CSM even more political than it already is. Cheers, Jonny D. ------------------------- CEO and Professor of Gunboat Diplomacy
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.08.05 04:02:00 - [138] Originally by: Jonny Damordred Originally by: MotherMoon lol how about instead just pass that rle that the players can vote out a CSM member? I see no reason for the whole CSM to go. Dumb idea. It would make the CSM even more political than it already is. Cheers, Jonny D. I'm not saying I agree just that I don't understand how not liking one member of the CSM makes him want the whole CSM to go. oh well not my place to say. I have no opinion on the subject in that case. Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.08.05 04:03:00 - [139] Originally by: MotherMoon All you have to do is seperate your job and your gaming. To which end like I said you'll see me running for CSM next election but not as mothermoon yarr but as an uneventful alt that doesn't have any sort of e-peen to powertrip on. What a most excellent idea. Next vote all CSM candidates should be newb alts in npc corps. That way the stance they take is not connected in any way with forum noteriety or corp affiliation. Want to get elected? Prove yourself a valid debater seperate from your ingame and forum identity. Good thinking mothermoon. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.08.05 04:27:00 - [140] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: MotherMoon All you have to do is seperate your job and your gaming. To which end like I said you'll see me running for CSM next election but not as mothermoon yarr but as an uneventful alt that doesn't have any sort of e-peen to powertrip on. What a most excellent idea. Next vote all CSM candidates should be newb alts in npc corps. That way the stance they take is not connected in any way with forum noteriety or corp affiliation. Want to get elected? Prove yourself a valid debater seperate from your ingame and forum identity. Good thinking mothermoon. in fact if we can get enough people running with noob alts next election and enough people to vote for them, we could get this through and change it ourselves, as players. hell I'm sure it can be done. Originally by: Dapanman1 Terrible idea, you're an idiot
Bacchanalian Stimulus	Posted - 2008.08.05 04:46:00 - [141] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Bacchanalian Edited by: Bacchanalian on 05/08/2008 03:21:41 Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Jimer Lins Well, I agree that empire wars aren't griefing... That is, from my experience and the discussions we had at CSM, not really the case. In some cases, it's definitely true. But in many cases, it's a pay-to-grief mechanic. Wow. I have even less confidence in the CSM as a body to have a bloody clue about EVE. then VOTE NEXT TIME! the CSM are nothing but players like yourself, and as such it's up to you to pick which ones think the way you do. and such give you a rep at CCP. it's all about getting the wishes of the players to CCP. So if you don't like it vote next time for someone that agrees with you. also don't expect every members of the CSM to agree with your point of view or for the view of one member to represent the views of every other members on the CSM. The whole point is that each member sees a situation differently. So you in fact don't have less confidence in the CSM, you have less confidence in LaVista Vista. I did. I voted for Jade with all 4 of my accounts, and he's so far the only one to impress me in the least with his understanding of EVE. Ankasomethingorother is starting to show slivers of promise as well. War declarations are a mechanism for consequences in EVE. If you remove in-game consequences for in-game actions in EVE, you remove the key difference between it and every other MMO on the market. ____________________ GM Sunshine > oops Neurotica > Hate to see a GM in your gang say 'oops'
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.05 05:08:00 - [142] What Jade says in some channel I couldn't really care about. What I DO care about is the way he publicly deals with people who don't share his views. He should IMO respond in a reasonable manner to people from all angles; not just the people who support his agenda whilst he deems the opinions he dosen't like as worthless. Like how he responds to people who support the nano nerf, or just people he dosen't like in general. Needs less attitude IMO but I guess that's just the way Jade communicates Not particually constructive in the grand scheme of things. Not that I ever expected the CSM was anything but a publicity stunt anyway. ...
Grath Telkin Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.08.05 05:24:00 - [143] Did i read right that you actually voted DOWN bringing up the removal of local? WTF is wrong with you?
Taradis Amarr The Imperial Assassins Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.05 05:49:00 - [144] Originally by: Gone'Postal And people VOTED for him ? Originally by: Viper Because you're a ****ing megalomanical idiot, with the common sense of an electrocuted hamster LMFAO. never seen an electrocuted hamster but I would imagine it would be quite funny wonder if they have one on joecartoon.com
Shoukei Caldari Boobs Ahoy	Posted - 2008.08.05 05:51:00 - [145] Originally by: Grath Telkin Did i read right that you actually voted DOWN bringing up the removal of local? WTF is wrong with you? If nothing else, this chat log shows what alliances consist of true carebears.
Veldya Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.08.05 06:09:00 - [146] CSM is just a powerless circle jerk, nothing will be achieved by them. Probably THE most boring element of EVE, wake me up when a CSM actually achieves something worthy of a thread.

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