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Captain Falcord Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.08.05 13:30:00 - [1] I was training for these two and I would like not to change my schedule so... What do you think of these ships post speed adjustment? Will the vagabond still be a good pvp / solo piracy ship? Will the Muninn actually outperform it? Any input on the Minnie hacs and comparisions with other races will help. Also, MWD or AB? Thanks. ---<---@ JackFalcord
Riho Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.08.05 13:36:00 - [2] vaga is still good at whit it is atm... just less speed. still the fastest cruiser around :) ---------------------------------- Fighting for Minmatar o7 Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
Akyla Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.08.05 13:38:00 - [3] Muninn will be better, as will all snipers. It's just a lot more difficult to reach ships at a distance after patching, so more time for damage. Also, less transversal at long range! ________________________________ All your honey are belong to us!
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.05 14:52:00 - [4] Originally by: Captain Falcord I was training for these two and I would like not to change my schedule so... What do you think of these ships post speed adjustment? Will the vagabond still be a good pvp / solo piracy ship? Will the Muninn actually outperform it? Any input on the Minnie hacs and comparisions with other races will help. Also, MWD or AB? Thanks. They will be crap. The muninn always sucked, and it will still suck post-patch. Vagabond with an AB is a bad joke (really.. come on), and MWD vaga will be okay but a lot more vulnerable while still not doing the world's best DPS. It will be a lot easier to tackle and take out. You're better off with a cane instead of both these ships. IMO, train amarr. Zealot is an excellent sniper as well as mobile gun platform (though the harbi is excellent too), as well as a sacrilege with hams can be nasty too. But you know, whatever. People seem to fancy that minmatar got boosted after the speed nerf (yeah, right), and other people still think the tempest is a great sniper. Ignorance is bliss.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 14:58:00 - [5] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Captain Falcord I was training for these two and I would like not to change my schedule so... What do you think of these ships post speed adjustment? Will the vagabond still be a good pvp / solo piracy ship? Will the Muninn actually outperform it? Any input on the Minnie hacs and comparisions with other races will help. Also, MWD or AB? Thanks. I'm still gona rock the nano apoc im training for. Align time is AWFUL now but it will still drop 584 dps from 80km and after insurance might cost me 60 mil. They will be crap. The muninn always sucked, and it will still suck post-patch. Vagabond with an AB is a bad joke (really.. come on), and MWD vaga will be okay but a lot more vulnerable while still not doing the world's best DPS. It will be a lot easier to tackle and take out. You're better off with a cane instead of both these ships. IMO, train amarr. Zealot is an excellent sniper as well as mobile gun platform (though the harbi is excellent too), as well as a sacrilege with hams can be nasty too. But you know, whatever. People seem to fancy that minmatar got boosted after the speed nerf (yeah, right), and other people still think the tempest is a great sniper. Ignorance is bliss.
VJ Maverick Caldari Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.08.05 15:36:00 - [6] Munnin is going to get an indirect boost in the form of more targets. There will be a lot more small ships zipping around after patch, and popping small ships at long range is what the Munnin does very well. Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
atomic killer	Posted - 2008.08.05 15:48:00 - [7] Originally by: VJ Maverick Munnin is going to get an indirect boost in the form of more targets. There will be a lot more small ships zipping around after patch, and popping small ships at long range is what the Munnin does very well. Unfortunately munnin is absolutely c..p compared to a zealot or even eagle. Its damage sucks, worse tracking and worse optimal range. Also 40% or so dps comes from drones and missiles which is quite useless on a sniping hac. Close range combat well it is outclassed by any other hac. So I cant see any points using it. Vagabonds worse nightmare was heavy neutralisers and rapiers/huggins, after the patch add gallente recons as well.
To mare	Posted - 2008.08.05 15:59:00 - [8] after patch you wont use the vagabond. if what i used on sisi is the new vaga there is no reason to use it, dead ship -stop- if someone say "but is still the faster cruiser around" you never used a vaga and you dont know how to pilot it. nothing change about the munnin
VJ Maverick Caldari Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:08:00 - [9] Originally by: atomic killer Originally by: VJ Maverick Munnin is going to get an indirect boost in the form of more targets. There will be a lot more small ships zipping around after patch, and popping small ships at long range is what the Munnin does very well. Unfortunately munnin is absolutely c..p compared to a zealot or even eagle. Its damage sucks, worse tracking and worse optimal range. Also 40% or so dps comes from drones and missiles which is quite useless on a sniping hac. Close range combat well it is outclassed by any other hac. So I cant see any points using it. Vagabonds worse nightmare was heavy neutralisers and rapiers/huggins, after the patch add gallente recons as well. I agree with you regarding the fact that the muninn is outsclassed by the zealot and the eagle. But what the muninn has is a tremendous alpha strike - enough to pop most small ships in one volley. Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:25:00 - [10] i don't understand both ships benefit from these patches. muninn gets more stuff to shoot and vagabond comes out as fastest ship in game.

AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:33:00 - [11] Originally by: Stab Wounds i don't understand both ships benefit from these patches. muninn gets more stuff to shoot and vagabond comes out as fastest ship in game. You MAY be dense. Muninn is the worst sniper HAC by far, and the vagabond is much slower than any inty. WTS clue.
Ghoest	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:40:00 - [12] Edited by: Ghoest on 05/08/2008 16:40:56 Originally by: AstroPhobic [ They will be crap. The muninn always sucked, and it will still suck post-patch. Vagabond with an AB is a bad joke (really.. come on), and MWD vaga will be okay but a lot more vulnerable while still not doing the world's best DPS. It will be a lot easier to tackle and take out. You're better off with a cane instead of both these ships. IMO, train amarr. Zealot is an excellent sniper as well as mobile gun platform (though the harbi is excellent too), as well as a sacrilege with hams can be nasty too. But you know, whatever. People seem to fancy that minmatar got boosted after the speed nerf (yeah, right), and other people still think the tempest is a great sniper. Ignorance is bliss. 99% true The Munin isnt very good currently - so crap with more targets is still crap. And with the speed nerf the Vagabond wont be very good either. It doesnt matter if you are the fastest - you have to be fast enough for it to matter. Wherever you went - here you are.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:46:00 - [13] Originally by: Ghoest Edited by: Ghoest on 05/08/2008 16:40:56 Originally by: AstroPhobic [ They will be crap. The muninn always sucked, and it will still suck post-patch. Vagabond with an AB is a bad joke (really.. come on), and MWD vaga will be okay but a lot more vulnerable while still not doing the world's best DPS. It will be a lot easier to tackle and take out. You're better off with a cane instead of both these ships. IMO, train amarr. Zealot is an excellent sniper as well as mobile gun platform (though the harbi is excellent too), as well as a sacrilege with hams can be nasty too. But you know, whatever. People seem to fancy that minmatar got boosted after the speed nerf (yeah, right), and other people still think the tempest is a great sniper. Ignorance is bliss. 99% true The Munin isnt very good currently - so crap with more targets is still crap. And with the speed nerf the Vagabond wont be very good either. It doesnt matter if you are the fastest - you have to be fast enough for it to matter. Such a true statement.
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.05 17:04:00 - [14] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Stab Wounds i don't understand both ships benefit from these patches. muninn gets more stuff to shoot and vagabond comes out as fastest ship in game. You MAY be dense. Muninn is the worst sniper HAC by far, and the vagabond is much slower than any inty. WTS clue. huh muninn has best alpha strike for hac snipers. vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 17:49:00 - [15] Originally by: Stab Wounds Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Stab Wounds i don't understand both ships benefit from these patches. muninn gets more stuff to shoot and vagabond comes out as fastest ship in game. You MAY be dense. Muninn is the worst sniper HAC by far, and the vagabond is much slower than any inty. WTS clue. huh muninn has best alpha strike for hac snipers. vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. You are absolutely one of the biggest trolls on this forum. Do you fly either of these ships? You seem to be telling people who fly muninns and vagabonds on a regular basis that you know more about their ships than they do. Munnin gets a 5 second rof with 1400 damage in a volley. The tracking bonus brings the guns somewhat in line with lasers. The zealot gets 700 volley damage and 2.5 second rof. If both ships are fitted with a tracking computer the zealot has superior tracking and, since its warp out speed is slower, its transversal to targets is much lower than the munin's resulting in a superior ability to pick off targets. Also, the zealot has superior dps. 220 versus 290. But both those setups are stupid if you want to kill support. 5x heavy pulse II 2x Tracking computers II 1x 10mn MWD II 3x heat sinks II 3x tracking enhancer IIs 1x best named tracking enhancer (fitting) 2x energy locus rigs. 456 dps at 65km .1368 tracking on the pulses. THAT will shred support AND anything else inside of 65km.
ILikeTastyPie Digital assassins	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:05:00 - [16] I hate these idiots who still think vaga's will be good after the nerf. Any random inty can completely disable it and render it useless.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:08:00 - [17] Originally by: ILikeTastyPie I hate these idiots who still think vaga's will be good after the nerf. Any random inty can completely disable it and render it useless. And minmatar t2 ships fail at armor tank and with only 4 mids it fails at an active shield tank. It's going to be pretty freaking awful to be honest.
jerrard iceni Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:16:00 - [18] Originally by: Stab Wounds vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. A vaga didnt go fast enough to avoid all damage from guns & missiles and lets not forget that a vaga has to turn the mwd off to be able to actually hit anything. Otherwise it has marginally more dps than a shuttle. Even if a very pimped vaga could reach speeds where it did avoid all damage, it still doesnt have the cap tobe able to run the mwd for long. But then you know all this. Every thread i see you in people are telling you the same damn thing.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:17:00 - [19] Originally by: jerrard iceni Originally by: Stab Wounds vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. A vaga didnt go fast enough to avoid all damage from guns & missiles and lets not forget that a vaga has to turn the mwd off to be able to actually hit anything. Otherwise it has marginally more dps than a shuttle. Even if a very pimped vaga could reach speeds where it did avoid all damage, it still doesnt have the cap tobe able to run the mwd for long. But then you know all this. Every thread i see you in people are telling you the same damn thing. But he just keeps on posting the same damn shit.
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:19:00 - [20] Edited by: Stab Wounds on 05/08/2008 18:21:46 Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: jerrard iceni Originally by: Stab Wounds vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. A vaga didnt go fast enough to avoid all damage from guns & missiles and lets not forget that a vaga has to turn the mwd off to be able to actually hit anything. Otherwise it has marginally more dps than a shuttle. Even if a very pimped vaga could reach speeds where it did avoid all damage, it still doesnt have the cap tobe able to run the mwd for long. But then you know all this. Every thread i see you in people are telling you the same damn thing. But he just keeps on posting the same damn shit. because i don't believe iwin button sympathizers they just want their iwin button not BALANCE so everything they say is exaggerated or flat out lies on tranq now when you turn on the vagabonds mwd you take 0 damage how is that balanced?

Ong	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:23:00 - [21] Muninn has a VERY limated role, to snipe inties and thats about it, would also work abainst stealth bombers but an SB fleet would alpha a Muninn befor it lost its effectivness. Vaga post nerf will be an ok ship, still does 3kms so i think the speed will be ok still (although not immune as it is atm) the thing that will kill the vaga is the reactivation time on the MWD, which will b,as i understand it, 10 seconds, that gives pretty much whatever it is shooting at enough time to mwd toward it and put a web on which = dead vaga. imo the vaga ( and all true nano intended ships such as inties) should get 0 reactivation time bonus on mwd's.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:29:00 - [22] Originally by: Stab Wounds Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: jerrard iceni Originally by: Stab Wounds vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. A vaga didnt go fast enough to avoid all damage from guns & missiles and lets not forget that a vaga has to turn the mwd off to be able to actually hit anything. Otherwise it has marginally more dps than a shuttle. Even if a very pimped vaga could reach speeds where it did avoid all damage, it still doesnt have the cap tobe able to run the mwd for long. But then you know all this. Every thread i see you in people are telling you the same damn thing. But he just keeps on posting the same damn shit. because i don't believe iwin button sympathizers they just want their iwin button not BALANCE so everything they say is exaggerated or flat out lies How are you going to come out here and tell everyone they are fibbing when you clearly don't fly any of the ships you are talking about? So, I ask you, what is your background? How long have you been playing? How much pvp do you do? What ships do you fly on a regular basis? I cant ask without telling so, Ive been playing roughly two and a half years. Been pvping for a year and a half. PVP everytime I'm online. I fly: Tempest (ac, dual rep) Tempest (200km sniper) Typhoon (rr) Typhoon (Neut Phoon) Vagabond Ishtar I fly a railranis every now and then and I flew a munnin for a bit before I realized how fail it was. I fly these ships on a regular basis. Killboard links are not difficult to google. So that's my background and that's why I feel I can talk about the problems being created by the speed patch. Where are you coming from? Show me that everything I say is exaggerated and is a flat out lie. I'm deeply interested in where you are coming from / how I am lieing.
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:30:00 - [23] Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: Stab Wounds Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Stab Wounds i don't understand both ships benefit from these patches. muninn gets more stuff to shoot and vagabond comes out as fastest ship in game. You MAY be dense. Muninn is the worst sniper HAC by far, and the vagabond is much slower than any inty. WTS clue. huh muninn has best alpha strike for hac snipers. vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. You are absolutely one of the biggest trolls on this forum. Do you fly either of these ships? You seem to be telling people who fly muninns and vagabonds on a regular basis that you know more about their ships than they do. Munnin gets a 5 second rof with 1400 damage in a volley. The tracking bonus brings the guns somewhat in line with lasers. The zealot gets 700 volley damage and 2.5 second rof. If both ships are fitted with a tracking computer the zealot has superior tracking and, since its warp out speed is slower, its transversal to targets is much lower than the munin's resulting in a superior ability to pick off targets. Also, the zealot has superior dps. 220 versus 290. But both those setups are stupid if you want to kill support. 5x heavy pulse II 2x Tracking computers II 1x 10mn MWD II 3x heat sinks II 3x tracking enhancer IIs 1x best named tracking enhancer (fitting) 2x energy locus rigs. 456 dps at 65km .1368 tracking on the pulses. THAT will shred support AND anything else inside of 65km. WTB PAPERBOAT! ------------ Somebody set up us the bomb
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:31:00 - [24] Edited by: Trojanman190 on 05/08/2008 18:32:14 Originally by: Elhina Novae Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: Stab Wounds Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Stab Wounds i don't understand both ships benefit from these patches. muninn gets more stuff to shoot and vagabond comes out as fastest ship in game. You MAY be dense. Muninn is the worst sniper HAC by far, and the vagabond is much slower than any inty. WTS clue. huh muninn has best alpha strike for hac snipers. vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. You are absolutely one of the biggest trolls on this forum. Do you fly either of these ships? You seem to be telling people who fly muninns and vagabonds on a regular basis that you know more about their ships than they do. Munnin gets a 5 second rof with 1400 damage in a volley. The tracking bonus brings the guns somewhat in line with lasers. The zealot gets 700 volley damage and 2.5 second rof. If both ships are fitted with a tracking computer the zealot has superior tracking and, since its warp out speed is slower, its transversal to targets is much lower than the munin's resulting in a superior ability to pick off targets. Also, the zealot has superior dps. 220 versus 290. But both those setups are stupid if you want to kill support. 5x heavy pulse II 2x Tracking computers II 1x 10mn MWD II 3x heat sinks II 3x tracking enhancer IIs 1x best named tracking enhancer (fitting) 2x energy locus rigs. 456 dps at 65km .1368 tracking on the pulses. THAT will shred support AND anything else inside of 65km. WTB PAPERBOAT! because you are going to fit a fantastic tank onto a munnin or zealot with 100km sniping roles. Yea it's paper, but the last thing you want to be tanking in post patch is a hac. As it stand when you get primaried in anything with a sniping role it's time to leave...
Naomi Knight Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:32:00 - [25] Originally by: ILikeTastyPie I hate these idiots who still think vaga's will be good after the nerf. Any random inty can completely disable it and render it useless. Lol :) I know it will be good because i tested it on sisi , did you test it too or just write stuff which is completly false? Muninn needs a boost high slot to low or med thats all.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:34:00 - [26] Originally by: Trojanman190 You are absolutely one of the biggest trolls on this forum. Do you fly either of these ships? You seem to be telling people who fly muninns and vagabonds on a regular basis that you know more about their ships than they do. Munnin gets a 5 second rof with 1400 damage in a volley. The tracking bonus brings the guns somewhat in line with lasers. The zealot gets 700 volley damage and 2.5 second rof. If both ships are fitted with a tracking computer the zealot has superior tracking and, since its warp out speed is slower, its transversal to targets is much lower than the munin's resulting in a superior ability to pick off targets. Also, the zealot has superior dps. 220 versus 290. But both those setups are stupid if you want to kill support. 5x heavy pulse II 2x Tracking computers II 1x 10mn MWD II 3x heat sinks II 3x tracking enhancer IIs 1x best named tracking enhancer (fitting) 2x energy locus rigs. 456 dps at 65km .1368 tracking on the pulses. THAT will shred support AND anything else inside of 65km. That is a fail fit, sorry. Those TCs are useless because they will be stack penaltilized with the TEs. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Naomi Knight Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:42:00 - [27] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer That is a fail fit, sorry. Those TCs are useless because they will be stack penaltilized with the TEs. But how else would his 456 dps at 65km and .1368 tracking on the pulses come out to compare it with a bare fit muninn?
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:43:00 - [28] Originally by: Stab Wounds huh muninn has best alpha strike for hac snipers. Nowai? I'll be able to hit interceptors with the best damage at 20km? That's SO useful! Except... only in a gatecamp, only if you lock it quickly enough, and only if it jets off instead of at an angle. What an awesome role for a ship. Quote: vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. Don't know how many time I have to tell you. If the vagabond is avoiding damage, it's not doing any damage. It also doesn't go faster than inties. Fit 7 speed mods and a MWD on an abaddon, and ZOMG it goes faster than an AB frigate. Abaddon wasn't made to go faster than a frigate!!111one
Veryez	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:43:00 - [29] Edited by: Veryez on 05/08/2008 18:44:13 They will s**k, plain and simple, neither can tank and both lack DPS to gank - which btw are the only choices for HACs now. But they aren't alone - most HACs will be far inferior to BCs - believe it.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:45:00 - [30] Edited by: Trojanman190 on 05/08/2008 18:46:05 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Trojanman190 You are absolutely one of the biggest trolls on this forum. Do you fly either of these ships? You seem to be telling people who fly muninns and vagabonds on a regular basis that you know more about their ships than they do. Munnin gets a 5 second rof with 1400 damage in a volley. The tracking bonus brings the guns somewhat in line with lasers. The zealot gets 700 volley damage and 2.5 second rof. If both ships are fitted with a tracking computer the zealot has superior tracking and, since its warp out speed is slower, its transversal to targets is much lower than the munin's resulting in a superior ability to pick off targets. Also, the zealot has superior dps. 220 versus 290. But both those setups are stupid if you want to kill support. 5x heavy pulse II 2x Tracking computers II 1x 10mn MWD II 3x heat sinks II 3x tracking enhancer IIs 1x best named tracking enhancer (fitting) 2x energy locus rigs. 456 dps at 65km .1368 tracking on the pulses. THAT will shred support AND anything else inside of 65km. That is a fail fit, sorry. Those TCs are useless because they will be stack penaltilized with the TEs. Sure, useless. The second tracking computer adds 15% more tracking. Wow that is completely useless for a ship designed to pick off support ships... you just need to expand your thinking mate. This thread isn't for defending my hypothetical setup. Regardless of whether or not you think this is a good fit the muninn has serious tracking problems that are not mitigated by it's bonus or any number of tracking computeres. Anything getting inside of 80km with any kind of transversal won't have anything to worry about from a munnin. Even if you did drop both tracking computers because you are worried about trying something so specialized, that zealot setup will STILL be more effective at picking off support.



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