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Captain Falcord Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.08.05 13:30:00 - [1] I was training for these two and I would like not to change my schedule so... What do you think of these ships post speed adjustment? Will the vagabond still be a good pvp / solo piracy ship? Will the Muninn actually outperform it? Any input on the Minnie hacs and comparisions with other races will help. Also, MWD or AB? Thanks. ---<---@ JackFalcord
Riho Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.08.05 13:36:00 - [2] vaga is still good at whit it is atm... just less speed. still the fastest cruiser around :) ---------------------------------- Fighting for Minmatar o7 Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
Akyla Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.08.05 13:38:00 - [3] Muninn will be better, as will all snipers. It's just a lot more difficult to reach ships at a distance after patching, so more time for damage. Also, less transversal at long range! ________________________________ All your honey are belong to us!
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.05 14:52:00 - [4] Originally by: Captain Falcord I was training for these two and I would like not to change my schedule so... What do you think of these ships post speed adjustment? Will the vagabond still be a good pvp / solo piracy ship? Will the Muninn actually outperform it? Any input on the Minnie hacs and comparisions with other races will help. Also, MWD or AB? Thanks. They will be crap. The muninn always sucked, and it will still suck post-patch. Vagabond with an AB is a bad joke (really.. come on), and MWD vaga will be okay but a lot more vulnerable while still not doing the world's best DPS. It will be a lot easier to tackle and take out. You're better off with a cane instead of both these ships. IMO, train amarr. Zealot is an excellent sniper as well as mobile gun platform (though the harbi is excellent too), as well as a sacrilege with hams can be nasty too. But you know, whatever. People seem to fancy that minmatar got boosted after the speed nerf (yeah, right), and other people still think the tempest is a great sniper. Ignorance is bliss.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 14:58:00 - [5] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Captain Falcord I was training for these two and I would like not to change my schedule so... What do you think of these ships post speed adjustment? Will the vagabond still be a good pvp / solo piracy ship? Will the Muninn actually outperform it? Any input on the Minnie hacs and comparisions with other races will help. Also, MWD or AB? Thanks. I'm still gona rock the nano apoc im training for. Align time is AWFUL now but it will still drop 584 dps from 80km and after insurance might cost me 60 mil. They will be crap. The muninn always sucked, and it will still suck post-patch. Vagabond with an AB is a bad joke (really.. come on), and MWD vaga will be okay but a lot more vulnerable while still not doing the world's best DPS. It will be a lot easier to tackle and take out. You're better off with a cane instead of both these ships. IMO, train amarr. Zealot is an excellent sniper as well as mobile gun platform (though the harbi is excellent too), as well as a sacrilege with hams can be nasty too. But you know, whatever. People seem to fancy that minmatar got boosted after the speed nerf (yeah, right), and other people still think the tempest is a great sniper. Ignorance is bliss.
VJ Maverick Caldari Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.08.05 15:36:00 - [6] Munnin is going to get an indirect boost in the form of more targets. There will be a lot more small ships zipping around after patch, and popping small ships at long range is what the Munnin does very well. Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
atomic killer	Posted - 2008.08.05 15:48:00 - [7] Originally by: VJ Maverick Munnin is going to get an indirect boost in the form of more targets. There will be a lot more small ships zipping around after patch, and popping small ships at long range is what the Munnin does very well. Unfortunately munnin is absolutely c..p compared to a zealot or even eagle. Its damage sucks, worse tracking and worse optimal range. Also 40% or so dps comes from drones and missiles which is quite useless on a sniping hac. Close range combat well it is outclassed by any other hac. So I cant see any points using it. Vagabonds worse nightmare was heavy neutralisers and rapiers/huggins, after the patch add gallente recons as well.
To mare	Posted - 2008.08.05 15:59:00 - [8] after patch you wont use the vagabond. if what i used on sisi is the new vaga there is no reason to use it, dead ship -stop- if someone say "but is still the faster cruiser around" you never used a vaga and you dont know how to pilot it. nothing change about the munnin
VJ Maverick Caldari Splinter Cell Alfa	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:08:00 - [9] Originally by: atomic killer Originally by: VJ Maverick Munnin is going to get an indirect boost in the form of more targets. There will be a lot more small ships zipping around after patch, and popping small ships at long range is what the Munnin does very well. Unfortunately munnin is absolutely c..p compared to a zealot or even eagle. Its damage sucks, worse tracking and worse optimal range. Also 40% or so dps comes from drones and missiles which is quite useless on a sniping hac. Close range combat well it is outclassed by any other hac. So I cant see any points using it. Vagabonds worse nightmare was heavy neutralisers and rapiers/huggins, after the patch add gallente recons as well. I agree with you regarding the fact that the muninn is outsclassed by the zealot and the eagle. But what the muninn has is a tremendous alpha strike - enough to pop most small ships in one volley. Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:25:00 - [10] i don't understand both ships benefit from these patches. muninn gets more stuff to shoot and vagabond comes out as fastest ship in game.

AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:33:00 - [11] Originally by: Stab Wounds i don't understand both ships benefit from these patches. muninn gets more stuff to shoot and vagabond comes out as fastest ship in game. You MAY be dense. Muninn is the worst sniper HAC by far, and the vagabond is much slower than any inty. WTS clue.
Ghoest	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:40:00 - [12] Edited by: Ghoest on 05/08/2008 16:40:56 Originally by: AstroPhobic [ They will be crap. The muninn always sucked, and it will still suck post-patch. Vagabond with an AB is a bad joke (really.. come on), and MWD vaga will be okay but a lot more vulnerable while still not doing the world's best DPS. It will be a lot easier to tackle and take out. You're better off with a cane instead of both these ships. IMO, train amarr. Zealot is an excellent sniper as well as mobile gun platform (though the harbi is excellent too), as well as a sacrilege with hams can be nasty too. But you know, whatever. People seem to fancy that minmatar got boosted after the speed nerf (yeah, right), and other people still think the tempest is a great sniper. Ignorance is bliss. 99% true The Munin isnt very good currently - so crap with more targets is still crap. And with the speed nerf the Vagabond wont be very good either. It doesnt matter if you are the fastest - you have to be fast enough for it to matter. Wherever you went - here you are.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:46:00 - [13] Originally by: Ghoest Edited by: Ghoest on 05/08/2008 16:40:56 Originally by: AstroPhobic [ They will be crap. The muninn always sucked, and it will still suck post-patch. Vagabond with an AB is a bad joke (really.. come on), and MWD vaga will be okay but a lot more vulnerable while still not doing the world's best DPS. It will be a lot easier to tackle and take out. You're better off with a cane instead of both these ships. IMO, train amarr. Zealot is an excellent sniper as well as mobile gun platform (though the harbi is excellent too), as well as a sacrilege with hams can be nasty too. But you know, whatever. People seem to fancy that minmatar got boosted after the speed nerf (yeah, right), and other people still think the tempest is a great sniper. Ignorance is bliss. 99% true The Munin isnt very good currently - so crap with more targets is still crap. And with the speed nerf the Vagabond wont be very good either. It doesnt matter if you are the fastest - you have to be fast enough for it to matter. Such a true statement.
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.05 17:04:00 - [14] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Stab Wounds i don't understand both ships benefit from these patches. muninn gets more stuff to shoot and vagabond comes out as fastest ship in game. You MAY be dense. Muninn is the worst sniper HAC by far, and the vagabond is much slower than any inty. WTS clue. huh muninn has best alpha strike for hac snipers. vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 17:49:00 - [15] Originally by: Stab Wounds Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Stab Wounds i don't understand both ships benefit from these patches. muninn gets more stuff to shoot and vagabond comes out as fastest ship in game. You MAY be dense. Muninn is the worst sniper HAC by far, and the vagabond is much slower than any inty. WTS clue. huh muninn has best alpha strike for hac snipers. vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. You are absolutely one of the biggest trolls on this forum. Do you fly either of these ships? You seem to be telling people who fly muninns and vagabonds on a regular basis that you know more about their ships than they do. Munnin gets a 5 second rof with 1400 damage in a volley. The tracking bonus brings the guns somewhat in line with lasers. The zealot gets 700 volley damage and 2.5 second rof. If both ships are fitted with a tracking computer the zealot has superior tracking and, since its warp out speed is slower, its transversal to targets is much lower than the munin's resulting in a superior ability to pick off targets. Also, the zealot has superior dps. 220 versus 290. But both those setups are stupid if you want to kill support. 5x heavy pulse II 2x Tracking computers II 1x 10mn MWD II 3x heat sinks II 3x tracking enhancer IIs 1x best named tracking enhancer (fitting) 2x energy locus rigs. 456 dps at 65km .1368 tracking on the pulses. THAT will shred support AND anything else inside of 65km.
ILikeTastyPie Digital assassins	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:05:00 - [16] I hate these idiots who still think vaga's will be good after the nerf. Any random inty can completely disable it and render it useless.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:08:00 - [17] Originally by: ILikeTastyPie I hate these idiots who still think vaga's will be good after the nerf. Any random inty can completely disable it and render it useless. And minmatar t2 ships fail at armor tank and with only 4 mids it fails at an active shield tank. It's going to be pretty freaking awful to be honest.
jerrard iceni Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:16:00 - [18] Originally by: Stab Wounds vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. A vaga didnt go fast enough to avoid all damage from guns & missiles and lets not forget that a vaga has to turn the mwd off to be able to actually hit anything. Otherwise it has marginally more dps than a shuttle. Even if a very pimped vaga could reach speeds where it did avoid all damage, it still doesnt have the cap tobe able to run the mwd for long. But then you know all this. Every thread i see you in people are telling you the same damn thing.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:17:00 - [19] Originally by: jerrard iceni Originally by: Stab Wounds vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. A vaga didnt go fast enough to avoid all damage from guns & missiles and lets not forget that a vaga has to turn the mwd off to be able to actually hit anything. Otherwise it has marginally more dps than a shuttle. Even if a very pimped vaga could reach speeds where it did avoid all damage, it still doesnt have the cap tobe able to run the mwd for long. But then you know all this. Every thread i see you in people are telling you the same damn thing. But he just keeps on posting the same damn shit.
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:19:00 - [20] Edited by: Stab Wounds on 05/08/2008 18:21:46 Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: jerrard iceni Originally by: Stab Wounds vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. A vaga didnt go fast enough to avoid all damage from guns & missiles and lets not forget that a vaga has to turn the mwd off to be able to actually hit anything. Otherwise it has marginally more dps than a shuttle. Even if a very pimped vaga could reach speeds where it did avoid all damage, it still doesnt have the cap tobe able to run the mwd for long. But then you know all this. Every thread i see you in people are telling you the same damn thing. But he just keeps on posting the same damn shit. because i don't believe iwin button sympathizers they just want their iwin button not BALANCE so everything they say is exaggerated or flat out lies on tranq now when you turn on the vagabonds mwd you take 0 damage how is that balanced?

Ong	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:23:00 - [21] Muninn has a VERY limated role, to snipe inties and thats about it, would also work abainst stealth bombers but an SB fleet would alpha a Muninn befor it lost its effectivness. Vaga post nerf will be an ok ship, still does 3kms so i think the speed will be ok still (although not immune as it is atm) the thing that will kill the vaga is the reactivation time on the MWD, which will b,as i understand it, 10 seconds, that gives pretty much whatever it is shooting at enough time to mwd toward it and put a web on which = dead vaga. imo the vaga ( and all true nano intended ships such as inties) should get 0 reactivation time bonus on mwd's.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:29:00 - [22] Originally by: Stab Wounds Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: jerrard iceni Originally by: Stab Wounds vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. A vaga didnt go fast enough to avoid all damage from guns & missiles and lets not forget that a vaga has to turn the mwd off to be able to actually hit anything. Otherwise it has marginally more dps than a shuttle. Even if a very pimped vaga could reach speeds where it did avoid all damage, it still doesnt have the cap tobe able to run the mwd for long. But then you know all this. Every thread i see you in people are telling you the same damn thing. But he just keeps on posting the same damn shit. because i don't believe iwin button sympathizers they just want their iwin button not BALANCE so everything they say is exaggerated or flat out lies How are you going to come out here and tell everyone they are fibbing when you clearly don't fly any of the ships you are talking about? So, I ask you, what is your background? How long have you been playing? How much pvp do you do? What ships do you fly on a regular basis? I cant ask without telling so, Ive been playing roughly two and a half years. Been pvping for a year and a half. PVP everytime I'm online. I fly: Tempest (ac, dual rep) Tempest (200km sniper) Typhoon (rr) Typhoon (Neut Phoon) Vagabond Ishtar I fly a railranis every now and then and I flew a munnin for a bit before I realized how fail it was. I fly these ships on a regular basis. Killboard links are not difficult to google. So that's my background and that's why I feel I can talk about the problems being created by the speed patch. Where are you coming from? Show me that everything I say is exaggerated and is a flat out lie. I'm deeply interested in where you are coming from / how I am lieing.
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:30:00 - [23] Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: Stab Wounds Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Stab Wounds i don't understand both ships benefit from these patches. muninn gets more stuff to shoot and vagabond comes out as fastest ship in game. You MAY be dense. Muninn is the worst sniper HAC by far, and the vagabond is much slower than any inty. WTS clue. huh muninn has best alpha strike for hac snipers. vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. You are absolutely one of the biggest trolls on this forum. Do you fly either of these ships? You seem to be telling people who fly muninns and vagabonds on a regular basis that you know more about their ships than they do. Munnin gets a 5 second rof with 1400 damage in a volley. The tracking bonus brings the guns somewhat in line with lasers. The zealot gets 700 volley damage and 2.5 second rof. If both ships are fitted with a tracking computer the zealot has superior tracking and, since its warp out speed is slower, its transversal to targets is much lower than the munin's resulting in a superior ability to pick off targets. Also, the zealot has superior dps. 220 versus 290. But both those setups are stupid if you want to kill support. 5x heavy pulse II 2x Tracking computers II 1x 10mn MWD II 3x heat sinks II 3x tracking enhancer IIs 1x best named tracking enhancer (fitting) 2x energy locus rigs. 456 dps at 65km .1368 tracking on the pulses. THAT will shred support AND anything else inside of 65km. WTB PAPERBOAT! ------------ Somebody set up us the bomb
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:31:00 - [24] Edited by: Trojanman190 on 05/08/2008 18:32:14 Originally by: Elhina Novae Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: Stab Wounds Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Stab Wounds i don't understand both ships benefit from these patches. muninn gets more stuff to shoot and vagabond comes out as fastest ship in game. You MAY be dense. Muninn is the worst sniper HAC by far, and the vagabond is much slower than any inty. WTS clue. huh muninn has best alpha strike for hac snipers. vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. You are absolutely one of the biggest trolls on this forum. Do you fly either of these ships? You seem to be telling people who fly muninns and vagabonds on a regular basis that you know more about their ships than they do. Munnin gets a 5 second rof with 1400 damage in a volley. The tracking bonus brings the guns somewhat in line with lasers. The zealot gets 700 volley damage and 2.5 second rof. If both ships are fitted with a tracking computer the zealot has superior tracking and, since its warp out speed is slower, its transversal to targets is much lower than the munin's resulting in a superior ability to pick off targets. Also, the zealot has superior dps. 220 versus 290. But both those setups are stupid if you want to kill support. 5x heavy pulse II 2x Tracking computers II 1x 10mn MWD II 3x heat sinks II 3x tracking enhancer IIs 1x best named tracking enhancer (fitting) 2x energy locus rigs. 456 dps at 65km .1368 tracking on the pulses. THAT will shred support AND anything else inside of 65km. WTB PAPERBOAT! because you are going to fit a fantastic tank onto a munnin or zealot with 100km sniping roles. Yea it's paper, but the last thing you want to be tanking in post patch is a hac. As it stand when you get primaried in anything with a sniping role it's time to leave...
Naomi Knight Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:32:00 - [25] Originally by: ILikeTastyPie I hate these idiots who still think vaga's will be good after the nerf. Any random inty can completely disable it and render it useless. Lol :) I know it will be good because i tested it on sisi , did you test it too or just write stuff which is completly false? Muninn needs a boost high slot to low or med thats all.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:34:00 - [26] Originally by: Trojanman190 You are absolutely one of the biggest trolls on this forum. Do you fly either of these ships? You seem to be telling people who fly muninns and vagabonds on a regular basis that you know more about their ships than they do. Munnin gets a 5 second rof with 1400 damage in a volley. The tracking bonus brings the guns somewhat in line with lasers. The zealot gets 700 volley damage and 2.5 second rof. If both ships are fitted with a tracking computer the zealot has superior tracking and, since its warp out speed is slower, its transversal to targets is much lower than the munin's resulting in a superior ability to pick off targets. Also, the zealot has superior dps. 220 versus 290. But both those setups are stupid if you want to kill support. 5x heavy pulse II 2x Tracking computers II 1x 10mn MWD II 3x heat sinks II 3x tracking enhancer IIs 1x best named tracking enhancer (fitting) 2x energy locus rigs. 456 dps at 65km .1368 tracking on the pulses. THAT will shred support AND anything else inside of 65km. That is a fail fit, sorry. Those TCs are useless because they will be stack penaltilized with the TEs. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Naomi Knight Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:42:00 - [27] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer That is a fail fit, sorry. Those TCs are useless because they will be stack penaltilized with the TEs. But how else would his 456 dps at 65km and .1368 tracking on the pulses come out to compare it with a bare fit muninn?
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:43:00 - [28] Originally by: Stab Wounds huh muninn has best alpha strike for hac snipers. Nowai? I'll be able to hit interceptors with the best damage at 20km? That's SO useful! Except... only in a gatecamp, only if you lock it quickly enough, and only if it jets off instead of at an angle. What an awesome role for a ship. Quote: vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. Don't know how many time I have to tell you. If the vagabond is avoiding damage, it's not doing any damage. It also doesn't go faster than inties. Fit 7 speed mods and a MWD on an abaddon, and ZOMG it goes faster than an AB frigate. Abaddon wasn't made to go faster than a frigate!!111one
Veryez	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:43:00 - [29] Edited by: Veryez on 05/08/2008 18:44:13 They will s**k, plain and simple, neither can tank and both lack DPS to gank - which btw are the only choices for HACs now. But they aren't alone - most HACs will be far inferior to BCs - believe it.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:45:00 - [30] Edited by: Trojanman190 on 05/08/2008 18:46:05 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Trojanman190 You are absolutely one of the biggest trolls on this forum. Do you fly either of these ships? You seem to be telling people who fly muninns and vagabonds on a regular basis that you know more about their ships than they do. Munnin gets a 5 second rof with 1400 damage in a volley. The tracking bonus brings the guns somewhat in line with lasers. The zealot gets 700 volley damage and 2.5 second rof. If both ships are fitted with a tracking computer the zealot has superior tracking and, since its warp out speed is slower, its transversal to targets is much lower than the munin's resulting in a superior ability to pick off targets. Also, the zealot has superior dps. 220 versus 290. But both those setups are stupid if you want to kill support. 5x heavy pulse II 2x Tracking computers II 1x 10mn MWD II 3x heat sinks II 3x tracking enhancer IIs 1x best named tracking enhancer (fitting) 2x energy locus rigs. 456 dps at 65km .1368 tracking on the pulses. THAT will shred support AND anything else inside of 65km. That is a fail fit, sorry. Those TCs are useless because they will be stack penaltilized with the TEs. Sure, useless. The second tracking computer adds 15% more tracking. Wow that is completely useless for a ship designed to pick off support ships... you just need to expand your thinking mate. This thread isn't for defending my hypothetical setup. Regardless of whether or not you think this is a good fit the muninn has serious tracking problems that are not mitigated by it's bonus or any number of tracking computeres. Anything getting inside of 80km with any kind of transversal won't have anything to worry about from a munnin. Even if you did drop both tracking computers because you are worried about trying something so specialized, that zealot setup will STILL be more effective at picking off support.

SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2008.08.05 19:10:00 - [31] Quote: vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. Don't know how many time I have to tell you. If the vagabond is avoiding damage, it's not doing any damage. It also doesn't go faster than inties. Fit 7 speed mods and a MWD on an abaddon, and ZOMG it goes faster than an AB frigate. Abaddon wasn't made to go faster than a frigate!!111one This is a bunk argument. If we applied your logic to everything, it would be fine if shuttles were invincible because they can't do any damage. Just because vagabonds can't do damage while simultaneously avoiding damage doesn't mean that their ability to avoid damage isn't out of whack.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.05 19:26:00 - [32] Originally by: SurrenderMonkey This is a bunk argument. If we applied your logic to everything, it would be fine if shuttles were invincible because they can't do any damage. Just because vagabonds can't do damage while simultaneously avoiding damage doesn't mean that their ability to avoid damage isn't out of whack. That makes no sense. Covert Recon ships can't do damage, while simultaneously avoiding all damage, contact, or even info of their whereabouts. When they want to, they can turn off their "invincibility" shield and start doing damage to you. Oh noes, that's overpowered!!111 Nerf Cloaks!!!111one What Stab Wounds doesn't understand is that vagabonds aren't "avoiding all damage" and being a threat to anything at the same time. In case you didn't notice, the capacitor on the vagabond isn't exactly large, it's not like we can run circles around you forever going "neener neener neeeener". While other ships like the ishtar/sacrilege CAN run their MWD forever, at the SAME TIME doing more damage with their MWD on than the vagabond ever would, slowed down.
jerrard iceni Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.05 23:10:00 - [33] Originally by: Stab Wounds because i don't believe iwin button sympathizers they just want their iwin button not BALANCE so everything they say is exaggerated or flat out lies The vaga isnt an iwin button you tool. You have never even flown the vaga. Actually have you ever flown a nano ship of any description? I just find it odd that you should call people who do fly a vaga liers when its quite clear you havent a clue on what your talking about. The vaga is a hac that is designed to be nano'd. Just look at its bonuses. With a drop in speed the vaga would be balanced. If its an "iwin button" your after, as far as nano ships go then look at the ishtur,curse and sac. They can maintain their speeds while still doing full damage and neuting. Originally by: Stab Wounds on tranq now when you turn on the vagabonds mwd you take 0 damage how is that balanced? The vaga doesnt take 0 damage with the mwd on. Since you dont want to listen to people who have actually flown the ship, i suggest you stop posting about it, go away, skill up, fly the ship in pvp and then come back to the boards.
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.05 23:18:00 - [34] Had Stab Wounds ever made a logical post, rather than just posting "nyah nyah nano nerf" in every thread on the forums, I'd understand all the argument here. I'm surprised you guys give him this much credit tbh, I wouldn't even bother arguing with him in the first place, heh. Seems like a waste of time to me.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr The Grim Reapers	Posted - 2008.08.05 23:41:00 - [35] Originally by: Boz Well Had Stab Wounds ever made a logical post, rather than just posting "nyah nyah nano nerf" in every thread on the forums, I'd understand all the argument here. I'm surprised you guys give him this much credit tbh, I wouldn't even bother arguing with him in the first place, heh. Seems like a waste of time to me. This. The Grim Reapers [GREAP] open for business
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Oyster Colors	Posted - 2008.08.05 23:52:00 - [36] Originally by: Boz Well Had Stab Wounds ever made a logical post, rather than just posting "nyah nyah nano nerf" in every thread on the forums, I'd understand all the argument here. I'm surprised you guys give him this much credit tbh, I wouldn't even bother arguing with him in the first place, heh. Seems like a waste of time to me. Tbh, I have the strong impression Stab Wounds is just some nano-pilots alt trying to discredit the pro-nerf fraction. He's doing a great job at that tho. I mean, seriously, one person cant be that dense, or can they?
Ambrosious Martin Son of Man	Posted - 2008.08.06 00:08:00 - [37] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Stab Wounds i don't understand both ships benefit from these patches. muninn gets more stuff to shoot and vagabond comes out as fastest ship in game. You MAY be dense. Muninn is the worst sniper HAC by far, and the vagabond is much slower than any inty. WTS clue. And any Vagabond pilot that cant smoke any inty around is an idiot!!! So Its still gonna be the fastest thing around it on the battlefield.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.06 00:10:00 - [38] Originally by: Ambrosious Martin Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Stab Wounds i don't understand both ships benefit from these patches. muninn gets more stuff to shoot and vagabond comes out as fastest ship in game. You MAY be dense. Muninn is the worst sniper HAC by far, and the vagabond is much slower than any inty. WTS clue. And any Vagabond pilot that cant smoke any inty around is an idiot!!! So Its still gonna be the fastest thing around it on the battlefield. No. Vagabond with snakes, speed fit, + rigs = 4k/s. Inty with snakes, speed fit, + rigs = 8k/s. Scales down nicely too.
Lokius Ahgamemnon	Posted - 2008.08.06 00:14:00 - [39] Edited by: Lokius Ahgamemnon on 06/08/2008 00:14:29 EDIT reading this thread aggravated me so much I felt compelled to post and repel the wave of ****s posting in this thread. I just want to clarify this for the people with really thick skulls. Vaga will still be the fastest in it's ship class. Inty's were meant to catch anything it's own size or bigger. Quit ***'n and go back to playing WoW we don't need you to play our game it's better here without you. /end rant
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.06 00:28:00 - [40] Originally by: Lokius Ahgamemnon Edited by: Lokius Ahgamemnon on 06/08/2008 00:14:29 EDIT reading this thread aggravated me so much I felt compelled to post and repel the wave of ****s posting in this thread. I just want to clarify this for the people with really thick skulls. Vaga will still be the fastest in it's ship class. Inty's were meant to catch anything it's own size or bigger. Quit ***'n and go back to playing WoW we don't need you to play our game it's better here without you. /end rant "Play wow" is such a tired line. Nano pilots tell carebears in drakes to 'play wow'. Carebears in drakes say 'nyah nyah nerf go play wow'. Get some new lines, or stfu. Although on that note, back when I played wow for a bit, I can't say the wow devs ever justified an absurd overdone nerf with a 5 hour meeting and the average player having a full set of high-grade sn-... err, tier 20 gear (or whatever there is now).

Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.06 01:25:00 - [41] Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: Lokius Ahgamemnon Edited by: Lokius Ahgamemnon on 06/08/2008 00:14:29 EDIT reading this thread aggravated me so much I felt compelled to post and repel the wave of ****s posting in this thread. I just want to clarify this for the people with really thick skulls. Vaga will still be the fastest in it's ship class. Inty's were meant to catch anything it's own size or bigger. Quit ***'n and go back to playing WoW we don't need you to play our game it's better here without you. /end rant This. "Play wow" is such a tired line. Nano pilots tell carebears in drakes to 'play wow'. Carebears in drakes say 'nyah nyah nerf go play wow'. Get some new lines, or stfu. Although on that note, back when I played wow for a bit, I can't say the wow devs ever justified an absurd overdone nerf with a 5 hour meeting and the average player having a full set of high-grade sn-... err, tier 20 gear (or whatever there is now).
Zergrush LeBlob	Posted - 2008.08.06 01:27:00 - [42] itt stab wounds is the only guy who knows how to fit a vaga for trolling
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.08.06 01:35:00 - [43] Originally by: Zergrush LeBlob itt stab wounds is the only guy who knows how to fit a vaga for trolling 'Cause while the rest of us set our sights on a ship class, he trained up Aggressive & Provocative Behavior V before he even hit 2 mil skillpoints.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.06 01:58:00 - [44] Originally by: Captain Falcord I was training for these two and I would like not to change my schedule so... What do you think of these ships post speed adjustment? Will the vagabond still be a good pvp / solo piracy ship? Will the Muninn actually outperform it? Any input on the Minnie hacs and comparisions with other races will help. Also, MWD or AB? Thanks. Both will still be used. Mwd and Ab will be viable. I base this on nothing. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.06 02:05:00 - [45] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Both will still be used. Mwd and Ab will be viable. I base this on nothing. AB vaga will be a waste of 100mil. MWD vaga will be tackled easily by competent inty pilots, while still doing crap DPS and still easily being countered by things like neuts, a resemblence of a tank, rapiers.. whatever.
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.08.06 02:08:00 - [46] Originally by: AstroPhobic AB vaga will be a waste of 100mil. MWD vaga will be tackled easily by competent inty pilots, while still doing crap DPS and still easily being countered by things like neuts, a resemblence of a tank, rapiers.. whatever. You seem bitter. Someone needs a cookie?
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.06 02:16:00 - [47] Originally by: Aleus Stygian Originally by: AstroPhobic AB vaga will be a waste of 100mil. MWD vaga will be tackled easily by competent inty pilots, while still doing crap DPS and still easily being countered by things like neuts, a resemblence of a tank, rapiers.. whatever. You seem bitter. Someone needs a cookie? 2 years and a bit of training devoted to a race that once reigned supreme in the world of combat, decidedly better at PvP because it was so awful at PvE, though the valiant who made the sacrifice to their wallets and stick through training a plethora of skills would relish in their sacrifices. Now I iz training large energy turret 5 lololololo amarr ftw!!111 lasers pew.
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.08.06 02:18:00 - [48] Originally by: AstroPhobic 2 years and a bit of training devoted to a race that once reigned supreme in the world of combat, decidedly better at PvP because it was so awful at PvE, though the valiant who made the sacrifice to their wallets and stick through training a plethora of skills would relish in their sacrifices. Now I iz training large energy turret 5 lololololo amarr ftw!!111 lasers pew. Yeah, you need a cookie. Meanwhile, I am training Amarr too, but to get the only ship in their line which manages to be really cool, while simultaneously sucking *******s.
Rex Wolfen Tri Optimum Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.08.06 09:43:00 - [49] Originally by: VJ Maverick ...... I agree with you regarding the fact that the muninn is outsclassed by the zealot and the eagle. But what the muninn has is a tremendous alpha strike - enough to pop most small ships in one volley. ...this. ofc u need a good number of munins to make use of it. to insta the hostiles is so entertaining Munin Alphastrike ~ 1400 Eagle Alphastrike ~ 700 Zealot Alphastrike ~ 600
Trefnis Minmatar D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.06 10:42:00 - [50] Originally by: AstroPhobic Now I iz training large energy turret 5 lololololo amarr ftw!!111 lasers pew. Hehe, i was 40mil sp when i realized (after getting full skills for phoon) that i still can do better in other races bs than matari (i hate nano anyway). since then i got gall bs 5 and now amarr bs 5 (waiting for t2 large lasers) and i say be done with the nerf (ill wait for the back of matar glory times)

Daftex Muleson Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.08.06 11:35:00 - [51] /me grabs popcorn and settles in.
Yuri Vladomirovic	Posted - 2008.08.06 13:25:00 - [52] So much whiner, brnhnbrnhn, cry me a river. Vaga will still hit an ungodly speed, compared to other. Yeah, intys will be faster, and hell this is how it should to be. Grow some balls, and fitt something against inties. Cruiser is a cruiser, maybe Vaga is the fastest of them, but it has its place in the food chain, get used to it. There is a shipclass that should be faster, and will be faster. Goodlordalmighty, I hope half of the other frigs (t1/t2) will be also faster than the vaga, cause thats why they are smaller, have less hp, doin tiny damage. On the other hand, Vaga is the ship, that post-nerf still has to fear the smallest part of medium weapons, cause of tracking, cause of speed, etc. ...freakin vaga whiners... nothing is good enough for them... GIMME, GIMME, GIMME, GIMME...
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:07:00 - [53] Originally by: Yuri Vladomirovic So much whiner, brnhnbrnhn, cry me a river. Weee, this will be fun Quote: Vaga will still hit an ungodly speed, compared to other. Half the speed of an inty isn't ungodly. Quote: Yeah, intys will be faster, and hell this is how it should to be. Uh huh. Quote: Grow some balls, and fitt something against inties You mean like fast tracking autocannons, a flight of warrior IIs and a medium neut? Check. Quote: Cruiser is a cruiser, maybe Vaga is the fastest of them, but it has its place in the food chain, get used to it. The place of failure? Seriously now, what do you think the vaga will do better than a hurricane post patch? Quote: On the other hand, Vaga is the ship, that post-nerf still has to fear the smallest part of medium weapons, cause of tracking, cause of speed, etc. Pssst. Not sure if you, or anyone else in this bloody thread knows this, but Vagabonds have to slow down to shoot. Orbiting someone at 600m/s isn't exactly supersonic, you know. Quote: ...freakin vaga whiners... nothing is good enough for them... GIMME, GIMME, GIMME, GIMME... Yeah, sorry another ship just went from "awesome" to "useless" for minmatar. Whatever, we have the rifter, rupture, and hurricane. 3 t1 ships. Woo.
To mare	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:21:00 - [54] capless guns
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:24:00 - [55] Originally by: To mare capless guns You're learning!!
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:25:00 - [56] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Stab Wounds i don't understand both ships benefit from these patches. muninn gets more stuff to shoot and vagabond comes out as fastest ship in game. You MAY be dense. Muninn is the worst sniper HAC by far, and the vagabond is much slower than any inty. WTS clue. If your biggest argument against the Vagabond is that it doesn't keep up with Inties, then it's still in awfully good shape.
Yuri Vladomirovic	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:28:00 - [57] Weee, Astro, too nicely written, cant reanswer rudely. And if I cant be rude, i wont say nothing!!! Anyway, just some points (cant stop it): "Pssst. Not sure if you, or anyone else in this bloody thread knows this, but Vagabonds have to slow down to shoot. Orbiting someone at 600m/s isn't exactly supersonic, you know." The smartarse nanoexperts, those godemperors told us so often in forums and ingame, they are not orbitin, but using own maneuvers in fight. Slowin down is not an option, not for those demigods. "You mean like fast tracking autocannons, a flight of warrior IIs and a medium neut? Check." Yep, fighting inties will need some new tactics, out of the box thinking. Anyway, this patch will follow, to and the timeperiode, where everyone flies the same spacecrap, with the same fittings. "The place of failure? Seriously now, what do you think the vaga will do better than a hurricane post patch?" Vaga should be, and will be better than the Cane in some scenarios. Not in all, and this is how it should be. IMHO, BCs are there to melt Cruisers, and so will be it. Donno in what scenarios will the Vaga be better, than the Cane, but I hope not in too much. Sry, and of work, Yuri out.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:28:00 - [58] Originally by: Tamoko If your biggest argument against the Vagabond is that it doesn't keep up with Inties, then it's still in awfully good shape. Was just replying to stab wounds. Vagabond will be completely out-classed by the cane post patch.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.06 14:33:00 - [59] Edited by: AstroPhobic on 06/08/2008 14:32:58 Originally by: Yuri Vladomirovic The smartarse nanoexperts, those godemperors told us so often in forums and ingame, they are not orbitin, but using own maneuvers in fight. Slowin down is not an option, not for those demigods. I don't follow. Only ishtar and sacri perma MWD (Zealots have a battery too, I'm sure..). Quote: Yep, fighting inties will need some new tactics, out of the box thinking. Anyway, this patch will follow, to and the timeperiode, where everyone flies the same spacecrap, with the same fittings. You can't really fight something that's double your speed with a perma MWD. You just need a point and enough sense to kill off drones, then you can orbit the vaga for years and years and years. Quote: Vaga should be, and will be better than the Cane in some scenarios. Not in all, and this is how it should be. IMHO, BCs are there to melt Cruisers, and so will be it. Donno in what scenarios will the Vaga be better, than the Cane, but I hope not in too much. Don't know how much you've thought about it, but now that they can't kill small stuff or outrun camps etc anymore, it will be 0 scenarios.
Ong	Posted - 2008.08.06 15:37:00 - [60] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Yuri Vladomirovic So much whiner, brnhnbrnhn, cry me a river. Yeah, sorry another ship just went from "awesome" to "useless" for minmatar. Whatever, we have the rifter, rupture, and hurricane. 3 t1 ships. Woo. so freaking true, and all of these can be beaten by other races ships. id like to see the raven nerfed to the point of uselessness, and then watch how many of these anti whine people start whineing, this atleast would sustain me as i lost another vaga to a gang of falcons coupled with 1 scram fitted intie that stops the mwd from working

Nahzgul Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.08.06 17:30:00 - [61] IÆm not saying the changes are fair or unfair but when a ship ôreigns supreme in pvpö there is obviously a problem with that ship. With everyone jumping on the Amarr and Caldari Bandwagon itÆs only reasonable to look for them to be nerfed in the coming months even though they were just boosted. Also when people whine long enough ships do get changed just may take longer than people would like.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.06 18:00:00 - [62] Vaga never "reigned supreme". It was the nano-ship that was the EASIEST to counter. Every bloody whiner and their mother saw their first 10k/s snaked up faction fit vagabond and started whining, and it went on from there..
jerrard iceni Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.06 18:08:00 - [63] Originally by: Yuri Vladomirovic "The place of failure? Seriously now, what do you think the vaga will do better than a hurricane post patch?" *Vaga should be, and will be better than the Cane in some* *scenarios. Not in all, and this is how it should be. IMHO, BCs are there to melt Cruisers, and so will be it. Donno in what scenarios will the Vaga* *be better, than the Cane*, but I hope not in too much. Errm... What you posted there was really hypocritical lol Your claiming the vaga isnt a broken ship after the sisi changes and is better than the cane in some situations, yet you cant even think of a single situation in which the vaga out performes the cane lol. Under the current sisi changes the vaga is a broken and near useless ship. At very least ccp need to remove the mwd reactivation delay
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.06 18:51:00 - [64] Not to cross post or anything but check out this issue Basically an alternative to the sweeping changes. It basically says that if you turn on your mwd you cant shoot at anything while it is on. That would have solved all of our problems with out completely ****ing the vagabond. When the patch goes through I don't really see a reason to have a vagabond anymore. It loses its role and other ships out perform it in all other respects. So, It's going up for sale. Which means I will no longer fly any minmatar ship below a battleship. And as soon as I get amar battleships, I won't fly anything below the nidhoggur.
Nahzgul Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.08.06 18:53:00 - [65] It's the most popular hac...I have no stats to back this up but most not all nano gangs have a majority of vaga's. Also most nano ships have the same counters
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:04:00 - [66] Originally by: Nahzgul It's the most popular hac...I have no stats to back this up but most not all nano gangs have a majority of vaga's. Also most nano ships have the same counters Untrue. Sacrileges, ishtars and cerberus(es? Yeah, some peopl fly nanocerbs) can all stay a good distance away from their target if someone else has a point, and they can all perma-MWD meaning they wont get hit har by heavy missile, heavy drones, wont be hit by heavy neuts etc.
Spectre3353 Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:13:00 - [67] Edited by: Spectre3353 on 06/08/2008 19:12:40 Originally by: Trojanman190 Not to cross post or anything but check out this issue Basically an alternative to the sweeping changes. It basically says that if you turn on your mwd you cant shoot at anything while it is on. That would have solved all of our problems with out completely ****ing the vagabond. Removing an entire style of combat will solve all our problems? I rather enjoy flying my interceptors at long range that can fire with the MWD running. I quite like the fact that when I am webbed at close range in my Thorax, i can toggle the MWD to keep blaster distance and still fire. Thanks. ----- http://evenewb.blogspot.com/
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:19:00 - [68] Originally by: Nahzgul Edited by: Nahzgul on 06/08/2008 18:56:06 That is nice but I think most people's complaint isn't that they die to nano ships to much it's that they can't kill them so I'm not to sure how receptive people will be to that idea. It wont be implemented, but it is a fantastic idea of where CCP should have started with this nerf. Little tiny bites at the problem. The vast majority of responses I get from players who have the skills but want the massive nano nerf is "i just don't like it" So as opposed to adapting to nanoage they choose not to.. meh. The end result is an entire class of ships gets hosed. There has GOT to be a better way. I loved flying my vagabond, it holds the vast majority of my kills and also the vast majority of my losses. It was a blast to fly. I really don't see the point of it anymore with all of the nerfs. Sure its still the fastest cruiser out there... but that speed is similar to the extra speed minmatar battleships get... it's useless. Getting to close was dangerous before but now it is absolute suicide. Why would I fly a vagabond when I can use an ishtar? I'll drop my garde IIs at 30km and let them distribute their 450 dps all over my targets. Then, I'll fly off to immunity and let my tackler do all the work... The ishtar has room for a buffer, web, point, and an injector. Ill probably drop the web for more buffer I guess. But I'll still be pretty safe doing strong dps... ill just lose a bunch of drones. Or, I could get a cerberus. MMMM this ship actually looks really tasty. 300 dps from 180 km, always hits. Room for a tank, or if you want to be clever, damps. Enough slots for fast warpage. Will probably become one of the most common hacs for people who are willing to train caldari. Will remain completely safe by mwding away from a fight and dropping its heavy missiles all over targets. Speaking of mwding while dishing out pain... The zealot. This bugger, with pulse, can be fitted to hit from 65km. Outrageous tracking, still decent speed, this bugger will mwd off and pick off anyone coming near it. This is actually the ship I'm currently training for. Cuz lasers look cool and the apoc is sic. The munin? Sure you can bring your artillery in. You use all your lows for range and tracking, your mids for locking and tracking, and you are STILL out tracked by the other races. Even with your bonus. What does that bonus do? It brings you closer to being in line with the other races. If you look at damage graphs, the only support you will be popping is support 100km away with extremely low transversal. Once they get near you... you are dead. Autocannons? Wonderful inside of 15km. But now useless in a fight. I think we are going to see plenty of zealots, cerbs, and ishtars fitted for ranged combat with muninns in the mix until people train for other ships. Roaming gangs will still behave somewhat similarly to old nano gangs and will be just as hard to kill. The difference now is that choking a gate is a good way to keep them out and the only ships that will come in close are interceptors, which you won't kill anyways. Now that I think about it the situation might have just gotten worse for belt ratters... nano gangs will probably have several interceptors with 30+km disruptors. They can warp across a system 3 to 4 times faster than a hac could and align even faster. So the situation isn't changing that much, carebears will still be whining and all that. The problem is that the vagabond has been cut out of the picture and the munnin is absolutely in last place. /end ranty post
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:20:00 - [69] Originally by: Spectre3353 Edited by: Spectre3353 on 06/08/2008 19:12:40 Originally by: Trojanman190 Not to cross post or anything but check out this issue Basically an alternative to the sweeping changes. It basically says that if you turn on your mwd you cant shoot at anything while it is on. That would have solved all of our problems with out completely ****ing the vagabond. Removing an entire style of combat will solve all our problems? I rather enjoy flying my interceptors at long range that can fire with the MWD running. I quite like the fact that when I am webbed at close range in my Thorax, i can toggle the MWD to keep blaster distance and still fire. Thanks. Oh man i shouldnt have posted that here... go say so on the issue. I was more or less trying to get at the fact that there are far simpler ways to changing things than chaing mwds, ships, mass, and scramblers. Simple ideas are usually better ones. But dude, you realize with the nerf the mwd on your thorax is useless right? Its just gona get shut off mate...
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:29:00 - [70] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Nahzgul It's the most popular hac...I have no stats to back this up but most not all nano gangs have a majority of vaga's. Also most nano ships have the same counters Untrue. Sacrileges, ishtars and cerberus(es? Yeah, some peopl fly nanocerbs) can all stay a good distance away from their target if someone else has a point, and they can all perma-MWD meaning they wont get hit har by heavy missile, heavy drones, wont be hit by heavy neuts etc. You post constantly. Do you have a job? Anyway, if I were to read all your posts and bold everything you said that was false or just stupid, I would be busy all day long.

AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:31:00 - [71] Personal insults, my favorite. Anyway, you've never met a pilot named "Creamster" and therefore your ignorance is excused. Carry on.
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:44:00 - [72] Originally by: AstroPhobic Personal insults, my favorite. Anyway, you've never met a pilot named "Creamster" and therefore your ignorance is excused. Carry on. 1. Grow a pair 2. His setups are not perma. They use cap boosters. They also use faction MWDs and disruptors. I am willing to bet he ran snakes because it would be stupid not to. 3. Keep posting ***got.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.06 19:44:00 - [73] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: AstroPhobic Personal insults, my favorite. Anyway, you've never met a pilot named "Creamster" and therefore your ignorance is excused. Carry on. 1. Grow a pair 2. His setups are not perma. They use cap boosters. They also use faction MWDs and disruptors. I am willing to bet he ran snakes because it would be stupid not to. 3. Keep posting ***got. K.
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.08.06 20:30:00 - [74] Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: AstroPhobic Personal insults, my favorite. Anyway, you've never met a pilot named "Creamster" and therefore your ignorance is excused. Carry on. 1. Grow a pair 2. His setups are not perma. They use cap boosters. They also use faction MWDs and disruptors. I am willing to bet he ran snakes because it would be stupid not to. 3. Keep posting ***got. So what? Cap boosters? That doesn't really say or mean shit. It just gives him a time limitation. Something that a clever pilot has no problem with. He'd probably think once or twice on whether if the situation was viable or if he had enough cap drain or ammo to take on a Myrmidon or a Drake, but nano pilots don't often go and attack targets that big. They harass newbs and people in 'inferior' ships. And even if they engage that Myrm or Drake, or even a BS, they have all the speed they need not to get messed up in the slightest, and exit combat without having lost more than a tiny amount of ISK in the form of missiles and boosters. Now what does this largely tell us? Well, roughly, that piracy can become way too low-risk, with little to no chance of retaliation. That the ones suffering for this fact are close to only the new pilots or those who mine or haul. And that this whole issue has also divided HACs into groups of 'useful' and 'useless' to many pilots. Generally, when lions hunt, usually anywhere between eight to five attempts out of ten do not result in downing prey. Think about that.
Captain Falcord Gallente The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.08.06 20:32:00 - [75] Edited by: Captain Falcord on 06/08/2008 20:32:21 Originally by: Aleus Stygian Generally, when lions hunt, usually anywhere between eight to five attempts out of ten do not result in downing prey. Think about that. but they get meat for a day or two. Our profit is shit :P ---<---@ JackFalcord
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.08.06 21:12:00 - [76] Originally by: Aleus Stygian Originally by: Foocurr Originally by: AstroPhobic Personal insults, my favorite. Anyway, you've never met a pilot named "Creamster" and therefore your ignorance is excused. Carry on. 1. Grow a pair 2. His setups are not perma. They use cap boosters. They also use faction MWDs and disruptors. I am willing to bet he ran snakes because it would be stupid not to. 3. Keep posting ***got. So what? Cap boosters? That doesn't really say or mean shit. It just gives him a time limitation. Something that a clever pilot has no problem with. He'd probably think once or twice on whether if the situation was viable or if he had enough cap drain or ammo to take on a Myrmidon or a Drake, but nano pilots don't often go and attack targets that big. They harass newbs and people in 'inferior' ships. And even if they engage that Myrm or Drake, or even a BS, they have all the speed they need not to get messed up in the slightest, and exit combat without having lost more than a tiny amount of ISK in the form of missiles and boosters. Now what does this largely tell us? Well, roughly, that piracy can become way too low-risk, with little to no chance of retaliation. That the ones suffering for this fact are close to only the new pilots or those who mine or haul. And that this whole issue has also divided HACs into groups of 'useful' and 'useless' to many pilots. Generally, when lions hunt, usually anywhere between eight to five attempts out of ten do not result in downing prey. Think about that. If you can't tank a nanocerb's 300 dps in a drake or a myrm you completely suck. Newbs die. That is eve. How is a 1bil of implants and 500mil of ship low risk?
Satura Most Wanted INC	Posted - 2008.08.06 22:01:00 - [77] The vagabond will not be as good as it is now, because of it's "mediocre" speed. Don't even need SiSi to figure that out. Muninn is a decent hac tbh. Depends what you want to do with it. In many battles the target is dead after the first few volleys. I like alpha. So I like muninn. The only three advantages over a cane is the extra range, speed/agility and tracking.
Nahzgul Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.08.06 22:21:00 - [78] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Nahzgul It's the most popular hac...I have no stats to back this up but most not all nano gangs have a majority of vaga's. Also most nano ships have the same counters Untrue. Sacrileges, ishtars and cerberus(es? Yeah, some peopl fly nanocerbs) can all stay a good distance away from their target if someone else has a point, and they can all perma-MWD meaning they wont get hit har by heavy missile, heavy drones, wont be hit by heavy neuts etc. Your right but all those ships u listed except for sac require cap mods to perma the mwd. Ur also relying on someone else to hold the point.
Asulox Caldari Faction Wolfpack	Posted - 2008.08.06 23:21:00 - [79] Edited by: Asulox on 06/08/2008 23:22:58 Luckily as minmatar pilots who have had to train so many shield/armour, missile/projectile and speed skills we are nicely prepared for the jump off the sinking ship and the climb onto whatever boats we choose as alternatives I'd been in a vaga a week or so before i read the devblog so i'll take the advice of the experienced pilots and.. /me begins training amarr frigate I
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.06 23:46:00 - [80] Edited by: Trojanman190 on 06/08/2008 23:47:24 Originally by: Asulox Edited by: Asulox on 06/08/2008 23:22:58 Luckily as minmatar pilots who have had to train so many shield/armour, missile/projectile and speed skills we are nicely prepared for the jump off the sinking ship and the climb onto whatever boats we choose as alternatives I'd been in a vaga a week or so before i read the devblog so i'll take the advice of the experienced pilots and.. /me begins training amarr frigate I Still [need to] have a shitload of spaceship command and laser skills tho =/

Jodie Amille Sadist Faction	Posted - 2008.08.07 05:30:00 - [81] Edited by: Jodie Amille on 07/08/2008 05:30:35 Originally by: Trojanman190 Edited by: Trojanman190 on 06/08/2008 23:47:24 Originally by: Asulox Edited by: Asulox on 06/08/2008 23:22:58 Luckily as minmatar pilots who have had to train so many shield/armour, missile/projectile and speed skills we are nicely prepared for the jump off the sinking ship and the climb onto whatever boats we choose as alternatives I'd been in a vaga a week or so before i read the devblog so i'll take the advice of the experienced pilots and.. /me begins training amarr frigate I Still [need to] have a shitload of spaceship command and laser skills tho =/ 36m SP's in Minmatar now... all I need to do is train Amarr cruiser 5 and t2 medium lasers(5-6 weeks maybe) and I can use anything t2 in the cruiser and BC ship sizes. Go go 28 perception! I'd been planning on training Amarr skills after Minmatar when I started this character anyways, but now I even have a good reason!
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.08.07 05:47:00 - [82] Originally by: Jodie Amille Still [need to] have a shitload of spaceship command and laser skills tho =/ 36m SP's in Minmatar now... all I need to do is train Amarr cruiser 5 and t2 medium lasers(5-6 weeks maybe) and I can use anything t2 in the cruiser and BC ship sizes. Go go 28 perception! I'd been planning on training Amarr skills after Minmatar when I started this character anyways, but now I even have a good reason! Sensed the steaming pile coming some time ago, and now I have Amarr Cruiser V, and I'm working on Recon ships. How about a vote? We get people to completely ignore flying Minmatar ships for long enough, and the devs are sure to notice...
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.08.07 08:13:00 - [83] Originally by: atomic killer Originally by: VJ Maverick Munnin is going to get an indirect boost in the form of more targets. There will be a lot more small ships zipping around after patch, and popping small ships at long range is what the Munnin does very well. Unfortunately munnin is absolutely c..p compared to a zealot or even eagle. Its damage sucks, worse tracking and worse optimal range. Also 40% or so dps comes from drones and missiles which is quite useless on a sniping hac. Close range combat well it is outclassed by any other hac. So I cant see any points using it. Vagabonds worse nightmare was heavy neutralisers and rapiers/huggins, after the patch add gallente recons as well. 3.3k alpha? Im sorry, but that frickin rawks at killing inty's. ----------------- Friends Forever
jaybo34 Caldari Mentis Fidelis Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.08.07 11:29:00 - [84] munnin is supposedly an ok sniper but, it also can have decent dps with autocannons [im getting 600 dps with faction emp and hobgob 2's and 425 autocannon IIand 2x arbalest hams] the speed wont be that great post patch but thats pretty decent dps for a hac. some other figures 651 dps with hail and 538 dps with barrage . as for the vaga im losing mine on the last day before the patch.
Ihrda Siharkhail Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.08.07 11:56:00 - [85] Originally by: jaybo34 munnin is supposedly an ok sniper but, it also can have decent dps with autocannons [im getting 600 dps with faction emp and hobgob 2's and 425 autocannon IIand 2x arbalest hams] the speed wont be that great post patch but thats pretty decent dps for a hac. some other figures 651 dps with hail and 538 dps with barrage . as for the vaga im losing mine on the last day before the patch. going closerange without a falloff bonus in a HAC with poor base resists sounds like a failtrain to me
Alt altski	Posted - 2008.08.07 12:59:00 - [86] Originally by: Stab Wounds Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Stab Wounds i don't understand both ships benefit from these patches. muninn gets more stuff to shoot and vagabond comes out as fastest ship in game. You MAY be dense. Muninn is the worst sniper HAC by far, and the vagabond is much slower than any inty. WTS clue. huh muninn has best alpha strike for hac snipers. vagabond wasn't meant to be avoid all damage from guns and missiles and wasn't intended to go faster than intys. It DOESNT avoid all damage from turrets and missiles in fact in my vaga i take alot more damage from missiles than i do anything else. I had a fight yesterday , 1 bs on the gate with a onyx , drake , cerb and they were next to eachother. I couldn't get within 25k of the bs or i would get neuted .... i was the only tackler so when i did go in i had to overload my warp disruptor to keep point. I done hardly any dps at 26-28k. And every 20 seconds i had to mwd out to 100k to let my shields recharge. If i couldnt outrun heavy missiles i would of had to warp out every time which totally screws with guerrilla tactics of the vagabond. As it needs the ability to zoom in keep a tackle do some damage then zoom out of the enemy's dps range for a while when shields are low. And a fyi if they got a neut on me once i would of died. If i didnt kill there dictor that webbed me i would of died. If they had 1 rapier i would of died. If they had another vagabond i wouldn't of been able to get close. Oh and i dont go faster than any intys par taranis and poorly fit ones.
Trojanman190 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.07 13:17:00 - [87] Originally by: jaybo34 munnin is supposedly an ok sniper but, it also can have decent dps with autocannons [im getting 600 dps with faction emp and hobgob 2's and 425 autocannon IIand 2x arbalest hams] the speed wont be that great post patch but thats pretty decent dps for a hac. some other figures 651 dps with hail and 538 dps with barrage . as for the vaga im losing mine on the last day before the patch. Dude I don't want to rip on you but that is fail. There would be no reason to fly it over a blaster boat. It would have to get closer than a blaster boat. It's minmatar t2 resistances leave 2 holes and it lacks the slots to fill them. Its a bad choice for a close range ship. Hurricane will eat it alive. And I hear ya about the vaga.... I'm looking for my blaze of glory but hydra wont deliver =/


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