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John Klein	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:18:00 - [1] All Please have a look and tell me what you think, where I have gone wrong, where it can be improved. Low 2x Cartel power Diagnostic System I 1x BCS II 1x Co-Processor II Mid 1x Shield Boost Amp II 2x Large Shield Extender I 1x Shield Booster I 2x Invul Field II High 7x Heavy Missile Launcher I (training now for II) Rigs 3x Cap Control Circuit II ( to speed up cap charge time) Shield HP 12705, recharge time 879 sec Cap 3878, lasts 10 minutes, recharge time 265 sec Em Res - 61% Thermal res - 69% Kinetic Res - 77% Explosive Res - 81% Cheers
Cogswin Iannyen Caldari Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:21:00 - [2] Good god, almost everywhere. Mash the "remove all fittings" button and start over.
John Klein	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:29:00 - [3] ok that's to the point. In what ways is it wrong then, the hardners are there, the caps there. Please at least be specific. Cheers
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:31:00 - [4] Have you tried passive tanking it?
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:31:00 - [5] It would help to know what size that shield booster is, Ill assume large. Highs: x7 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I (Scourge) Mids: x1 Large Shield Booster II x1 Shield Boost Amplifier II x3 Rat Specific Hardeners/ or x1 Photon II & x2 Invuln II x1 Cap Recharger II (this slot is up in the air, I added a cap recharger to help with cap, but you could do a 4th hardener, a shield extended is not needed in missions) Lows: x2 Power Diagnostic System II x2 Ballistic Control System II
Glennus Amarr Imperial Syndicate Forces	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:33:00 - [6] Originally by: John Klein ok that's to the point. In what ways is it wrong then, the hardners are there, the caps there. Please at least be specific. Cheers active tank on a drake is bad. why? well passive you can tank more have no trouble with neuts (well you have if you use invu fields) you still tank if you invu are shut down. with you active tank you tank less dps and you are totaly ****ed if someone neuts you. just get a passive tank i have seen to many active drakes die in seconds. Glenliness is next to Godliness.
John Klein	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:36:00 - [7] Originally by: Boz Well Have you tried passive tanking it? Yep got a good passive tank, looking for an Active tank for some gang PvP
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:36:00 - [8] Originally by: Boz Well Have you tried passive tanking it? Passive tanked drake is win: Highs: x7 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I (Scourge) Mids: x2 Large Shield Extender II x3 Rat Specific Shield Resistance Amplifier II x1 Shield Recharger II Lows: x2 Ballistic Control System II x2 Shield Power Relay II Rigs: x3 Core Defense Field Purger I Other variants on the mid slots include x3 Large Shield Extender II x3 Rat Specific Shield Resistance Amplifier II This gives you more shield, but a lower recharge time, it is hard to fit the 3 extenders though without advanced weapon upgrades to at least 3, and this is using T1 launchers. T2 launchers would probably require the first set-up, because it has more free powergrid for them. This drake will tank anything you throw at it, and theres no cap/booster management. For more tank, substitute the 2 damage mods for 2 more shield power relay IIs.
Thenoran Caldari Border Rim Enterprises	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:38:00 - [9] Edited by: Thenoran on 05/08/2008 16:42:18 Originally by: John Klein All Please have a look and tell me what you think, where I have gone wrong, where it can be improved. Low 2x Cartel power Diagnostic System I 1x BCS II 1x Co-Processor II Mid 1x Shield Boost Amp II 2x Large Shield Extender I 1x Shield Booster I 2x Invul Field II High 7x Heavy Missile Launcher I (training now for II) Rigs 3x Cap Control Circuit II ( to speed up cap charge time) Shield HP 12705, recharge time 879 sec Cap 3878, lasts 10 minutes, recharge time 265 sec Em Res - 61% Thermal res - 69% Kinetic Res - 77% Explosive Res - 81% I'm gonna assume you are fighting Guristas so bear with me... First off, you cannot mix LSE's and Shield Boosters like that, only when you have PG to spare and an added resist doesnt work (or if you may be facing neut towers or w/e) can you think about adding an LSE. Shield Extenders do not add much to your tank, they slightly improve the passive recharge amount but that's it, beyond that there is just more shield to fight through and in missions that won't help you at all. Here is the fit I use: [High] 7x XT-2800 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher [Caldari Navy Terror] 1x Small Tractor Beam [Med] 1x 10MN Afterburner II 1x Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster (you can get these off Contracts for 5-7 mil) 2x Kinetic Hardener 2x Thermal Hardener [Low] 3x Ballistic Control System II 1x Overdrive Injector [Rigs] 1x EM Shield Resist rig 2x Cap Control Circuit Total DPS: 350-450 (drone & missile skills) Speed: 380-440m/s (navigation skills) Tank: 340-380 efficiency in EFT against Guristas (Kinetic/Thermal) This yields about 350-400 DPS in the missiles depending on your skills at a range of about 16-18km. With the AB and Overdrive you can hit 400m/s to chase mission targets and nail them once you get in range The reason I go for a Pithi C-Type is because a Medium Booster has much higher cap requirements, leaving out hardeners. If you need more tank, swap out a Ballistic Control for a Damage Control II. For PVP you can switch the hardeners to fit all four types and switch the Afterburn for a MicroWarp Drive (might need to take out the Overdrive for a Power Diagnostic to fit that though. ------------------------ Ship Yield Calc Improve Mining
John Klein	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:40:00 - [10] Also i'm not using this for Missions. I was under the impression after reading a fair amount that Passive Tanking was better for PvE ( missions) and Active is better for PvP
Thenoran Caldari Border Rim Enterprises	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:43:00 - [11] Edited by: Thenoran on 05/08/2008 16:43:06 Originally by: John Klein Also i'm not using this for Missions. I was under the impression after reading a fair amount that Passive Tanking was better for PvE ( missions) and Active is better for PvP HAM Drake is fun in missions, rather than just grinding for LP at 70km away :) For PVP you can switch the hardeners to fit all four types and switch the Afterburn for a MicroWarp Drive (might need to take out the Overdrive for a Power Diagnostic to fit that though. ------------------------ Ship Yield Calc Improve Mining
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.08.05 16:43:00 - [12] Originally by: John Klein Originally by: Boz Well Have you tried passive tanking it? Yep got a good passive tank, looking for an Active tank for some gang PvP Ah, I assumed you were using this for missions, for pvp, try a buffer tank, the drakes resistance bonuses allow it have a very high effective HP. Highs: x7 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Terror) Mids: x1 10MN MWD x1 Faint Warp Prohibitor I x2 Invulnerability Field II x1 Photon Scattering Field II x1 Large Shield Extender II Lows: x3 Ballistic Control Systems x1 Damage Control II Rigs: x3 Core Defense Field Extender I Drones: x5 Hobgoblin II Cap Stable with MWD off, 650 DPS, Resists: 81/72/79/83, 71000 EHP. CPU is tight, either an implant or named MWD should make it fit.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.05 17:03:00 - [13] Ok, let's put it this way... At a BARE MINIMUM, you will dedicate 2 midslots and all 3 rigslots to your tank's specific modules (hardeners are common, so not mentioned ; PVP gear would also be common, so not mentioned). You may or may not dedicate any lowslots to the tank (SPR or PDU for passive, PDU, CFC or even CPR for active). You WILL have trouble fiting a LSB without a fiting mod, but let's just assume for a second you actually could. You WILL be using some capacitor for the hardeners on your active fit too (resamps are stupid on active tanks), and you just don't have enough leftover grid for a cap injector, so whatever cap you start out with that's it. So, basically, you have serious capacitor issues trying to run a LSB, and just going passive will get you basically the same tank power, but with more effective HP and less cap warfare vulnerability. The only reason to go with an active shield tank on a Drake would be if you were using a faction "efficient" booster OR you were using crystal implants. But then again, I have this feeling you wouldn't use either of those things in PvP any time soon, so just forget about it. _ THE APPRENTICE \|\| mineral balance \|\| nanofix
John Klein	Posted - 2008.08.05 17:05:00 - [14] Originally by: Transmaniacon Originally by: John Klein Originally by: Boz Well Have you tried passive tanking it? Yep got a good passive tank, looking for an Active tank for some gang PvP Ah, I assumed you were using this for missions, for pvp, try a buffer tank, the drakes resistance bonuses allow it have a very high effective HP. Highs: x7 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Terror) Mids: x1 10MN MWD x1 Faint Warp Prohibitor I x2 Invulnerability Field II x1 Photon Scattering Field II x1 Large Shield Extender II Lows: x3 Ballistic Control Systems x1 Damage Control II Rigs: x3 Core Defense Field Extender I Drones: x5 Hobgoblin II Cap Stable with MWD off, 650 DPS, Resists: 81/72/79/83, 71000 EHP. CPU is tight, either an implant or named MWD should make it fit. Thanks, just stuck this in EFT. It fits without the MWD. However, what about a shield booster. with long shield and cap recharge times wont it be needed. Shiled recharge is about 1050 sec and Cap is 562... Thats quite a long time...?
John Klein	Posted - 2008.08.05 17:08:00 - [15] Edited by: John Klein on 05/08/2008 17:08:56 Or i could just say Bol**cks to the whole Drake Active Tank and say.... What i'm looking for is a good PvP Caldari ship and tank? I'll mainly be doing it in small groups. Suggestions on postcard to..... I have quite a bit of money so it's not to much of a problem, but the kit idea's are whats needed.
Kneebone	Posted - 2008.08.05 17:09:00 - [16] Edited by: Kneebone on 05/08/2008 17:14:23 Well for comparison... First you need fitting skills for CPU. Electronics and Weapons Upgrades. Highs: 7x Arby or Limos Launchers (Can fit T2 if you have maxed fitting skills) Mids: 1x Large Shield Booster II 1x Shield Boost Amp II 2x Invul II 1x Magnetic Scattering 1x Cap Recharger II's Lows: 2x BCS II's 2x Cap Flux Coil II's Rigs: 3x CCC I's (can do Cap II's if you have the skills, but not much of an advantage) Barely Cap Stable setup. 327/4 seconds from the booster so 81.75/sec boosting, no need for peak. Resists are upper 60's to low 70's. Can remove 1 Invul for a second Boost. etc etc For you EFT war's that is 360ish defence for both. When you factor in the base peak regen you are at 97ish/sec at peak regen. A Peak Regen Passive is more then that, but at peak, not at full shields. DPS is slightly better active tanked, I squeezed in 2 BCS's instead of 1. For the same DPS (207 per EFT) by swapping out a Bay Loading rig for a third CDFP II you get a 434 rating with 131 at peak. Drop the second BCSII for a third SFCII and you are sitting at 172 DPS but you are 160 peak regen for shields, almost double the active tanked Drake. The EFT defense rating is 600. So you can fit slightly more passive for similar DPS, but you get a slightly better overall buffer with the active. For raw tanking a full T2 passive Drake wins hands down. (And yes I fly Drakes on a regular basis adjusting my fitted tank as needed)
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.05 17:10:00 - [17] If you go below 25% shield, you're as good as dead if you don't GTFO soon. From around 25% up to around 75% (so 50% of your shield total) should recharge in about 4 minutes tops, even if a "full" recharge (from 0% to 100%) would take more than a quarter of an hour. Also, in roaming gangs, you USUALLY expect people to have some minimal remote repair abilities (otherwise, you're in a pretty damn lousy gang), so it's of no concern either way. _ THE APPRENTICE \|\| mineral balance \|\| nanofix
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.08.05 17:15:00 - [18] Edited by: FT Diomedes on 05/08/2008 17:15:56 "Highs: x7 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Terror) Mids: x1 10MN MWD x1 Faint Warp Prohibitor I x2 Invulnerability Field II x1 Photon Scattering Field II x1 Large Shield Extender II Lows: x3 Ballistic Control Systems x1 Damage Control II Rigs: x3 Core Defense Field Extender I Drones: x5 Hobgoblin II Cap Stable with MWD off, 650 DPS, Resists: 81/72/79/83, 71000 EHP. " That last setup you were given was a good one. Train to fit it. You do not need a shield booster. For PvP you are going for a buffer tank - you want to be able to soak up as much damage as possible. Your shields will recharge naturally once the fight is over - or your friends can heal you with their remote reps. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Kneebone	Posted - 2008.08.05 17:17:00 - [19] Edited by: Kneebone on 05/08/2008 17:22:32 I would like to point out that, based on the resists and what not given, this is not an "All to Level 5" person we are talking about. I adjusted my character settings for the minimum fitting needs and stuck with his initial setup. That is the single biggest problem with EFT Warriors. "All to L5" is Sofa King We Tar Dead
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.08.05 17:28:00 - [20] I assumed it was a PVE fit too, and generally when people choose a dedicated pvp ship, they end up training most relevant skills to at least IV, so therefore the "all lvl V" fit isnt very far off, and paints a good picture of what this ship can do. For pvp work, buffer tanks are the way to go, and the drake does that well.
Kneebone	Posted - 2008.08.05 17:35:00 - [21] Another thing I would like to point out... Missles have lots of things that hurt their DPS. The 700DPS drake is blasting at a zero resist unmoving medium to large target. Fit something with roughly 50% resists and do a DPS chart to get a real feel for it. You will find your practical DPS is more in the 300's range at all to 5's and with minimum fitting skills for a solid T2 setup you will be in the 200's.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.05 17:40:00 - [22] The issue with the active tanked drake is simple utility. A "semi-active" (i.e. active hardners with passive shield recharge and a few BCS' thrown in) setup will yield a stronger tank and comperable DPS. When using HAM's and a PVP fitting one may be sorely tempted to fit an active tank but unfortunately it requires far to much wedging to make it worthwhile, and your buffer suffers immensely once you give up slots to boosters and amps. Unfortunately, given the fitting restrictions on a Drake it simply is not possible to make an active tank perform better than the passive tank or buffer tank. As it stands I can only fit 1 LSE on my buffer ham drake after the MWD and HAM's are installed and my lows are dedicated to BCS/DCU and maybe 1 power diagnostic (for the grid and shield extension mostly) I can stick a medium shield booster in there but the module is sorely lacking when it comes to actually being effective at keeping me alive longer than a pair of invulnerability fields are as even cruisers can generate the firepower to easily punch through the extra tank I'm getting. The Drake seems intentionally designed to be a passive tank/buffer tanked ship - everything from the resit bonus as opposed to booster bonus to the lack of powergrid when fitting HAM's points towards passive tanks as being the way to go.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.08.05 17:40:00 - [23] Pff! Just armour-tank that sucker. That'll surprise the heck out of them (just before they kill you).
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.08.05 17:42:00 - [24] Originally by: Kneebone Another thing I would like to point out... Missles have lots of things that hurt their DPS. The 700DPS drake is blasting at a zero resist unmoving medium to large target. Fit something with roughly 50% resists and do a DPS chart to get a real feel for it. You will find your practical DPS is more in the 300's range at all to 5's and with minimum fitting skills for a solid T2 setup you will be in the 200's. This is true for any ship...
Kneebone	Posted - 2008.08.05 18:40:00 - [25] Originally by: Transmaniacon Originally by: Kneebone Another thing I would like to point out... Missles have lots of things that hurt their DPS. The 700DPS drake is blasting at a zero resist unmoving medium to large target. Fit something with roughly 50% resists and do a DPS chart to get a real feel for it. You will find your practical DPS is more in the 300's range at all to 5's and with minimum fitting skills for a solid T2 setup you will be in the 200's. This is true for any ship... I know. Call me crazy but I prefer to deal with actual numbers, not theoretical maxes that fluff up how a ship really preforms.
Transmaniacon Minmatar Strike-Force-Alpha	Posted - 2008.08.05 19:26:00 - [26] You act like an extra level in skill is impossible to attain, plenty of people have max gunnery/ship/support skills to get that "lvl V DPS". I used lvl V because I dont have those skills to use them, but was showing him what would fit, and what performance the fittings produce...
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.08.05 19:29:00 - [27] swap out the rigs for polycarbon II's
Jim Raynor Caldari Shinra	Posted - 2008.08.05 19:37:00 - [28] MY DRAKE SETUP IS THE FOLLOWING: Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Reactor Control Unit II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile [empty high slot] Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Hobgoblin II x5 ------ I'll make a sig later.
Fla'Nor	Posted - 2008.08.05 19:40:00 - [29] Its a Zergling sir!
Jim Raynor Caldari Shinra	Posted - 2008.08.05 19:45:00 - [30] Originally by: Fla'Nor Its a Zergling sir! Ya well your name reminds me of a delicious spanish pudding sir. ------ I'll make a sig later.

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